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cowbirdcat
Placitas, NM
February 4, 2008
12:02 PM | We have an approximately 30-yr old Delta shower/bath single handle (rotary ball-type) faucet that has had been "rebuilt" by licensed professional plumbers multiple times in the past year. It functions fine for about a month or so, then begins to bind - you feel "glitches or sticking points" as you adjust the temperature and water flow - and within a week or so it gets worse, getting very difficult to adjust the water temperature.
The plumbers say they can find nothing wrong with it and suggest completely replacing the faucet, which will be expensive, since there is no access panel(old house!) and the pipes are bricked and tiled into the shower enclosure.
FYI, the house had moderately hard water (16-18) for the past 30 years; a softener system was installed 2 months ago. There is no visible damage or wear to the place where the ball seats and the rubber valves insert. The faucet only has regular light, 2 person daily use.
Is there anything else I can investigate? Just rebuild it every month? (I know how to do it myself by now.) Bite the dust and spring for the grand+ repair? Help!
| Bubba_MoCity
Missouri City, TX
February 4, 2008
12:21 PM | I would up destroying a Delta just like yours - many years ago.
Went through the wall behind the shower. Cut the pipes. Added unions on both sides, and replaced with a Moen. Then repaired the wall.
I had one advantage - the wall had flocked vinyl paper that the glue had weakened enough to peel back. I was able to see where the studs were, so cut a rectangle from the sheetrock that spanned two. Carefully removed the sheetrock panel and reused when the project was complete. Had some fresh wallpaper glue, so was able to salvage the wallpaper, too.
I suspect that the hard water is the problem and that the buildup in the pipes ais now disolving with the softwater and winds up exactly where you don't want it.
He had hard water and calcium deposits - whan I replaced the hot-water heater with a tankless, the problems began. All the aerators in the house had to be cleaned at least weekly. Took out the tankless and replaced with a traditional and problems went away.
Leaned a bunch about plumbing the hard way, tho. Now have some nice tools in my collection. | Moricky
Ballwin, MO
February 5, 2008
6:13 PM | I feel your pain there, but let's dig a bit before we throw the animal out. If it is a basic hard water problem, there will quite likely be the same with a new faucet. Big bucks gone with no help. If you are now in the know on how to repair the faucet, we need to get more info on what is happening. For general info, the Peerless, Moen, and Delta faucets are often the same with different boxes. The parts inside are quite often interchangable. If you can take the faucet apart down to the cartridge and look it over it will help. If it is the faucet I think, there will be a ball connected to the knob, with two small rubbers seals (cups) resting on two springs. If the ball is old, there will be a groove worn in it from the years of the seals sliding on it. Perhaps the "professional" did not really replace all the parts??? It is quite common to only replace the seals, making it work until the grooves tear them up. A month or two might do it. Do the seals look like good fresh rubber should? Are the springs good , new and shiny, or bent, rusty and corroded? That's about all you have to deal with here and they should all be new. If they are not good looking, you have two things to think over. Were they really replaced or do you have a really terrible water supply that eats whatever is bad in that short a time? Hope this helps and let us all know what you think when you look it over again. I would not bust the wall, not yet anyway. | cowbirdcat
Placitas, NM
February 5, 2008
10:54 PM | Thanks, Moricky. I've talked with the Delta customer service tech today and I've ordered a new oem ball and rebuild kit, to be sure that the parts I put inside inside are properly Delta and not just "universal" off-brand. I have watched the rebuilds done by several licensed plumbers, but I will admit I don't know what kind of parts they used. The Delta tech said NOT to use any lubricant in the rebuild, in contrast to what many others have said. He insisted that the parts are all properly lubed coming from Delta and that additional lube wears out the parts sooner.
He also suggested allowing the system to rinse for a 1/2 minute or so with all the parts removed, to clear out the innards before rebuilding. I'll give it a go this week; the proof will come in a month or to see if it lasts or if it goes south like all the other ("professional") rebuilds - but it won't have cost me a house call! | Moricky
Ballwin, MO
February 6, 2008
5:19 PM | That all sounds right to me. Lubing anything that stays in the water flow would seem to be a short term solution to me. When you get into the thing there should be some signs that give you a clue what's happening. The ball, rubber cups or springs should show some kind of problem, I should think. The idea of flushing is good for sure. With old iron pipes it almost always knocks some dirt loose when you work on them and just as a normal thing there is a certain amount of gritty rust coming loose. If this is enough to tear up the faucet inside, there should be other signs of it, too. Do your faucet strainers get stopped up often? Either way flushing after working on plumbing is always a good idea. Makes your next glass of water taste a bit better, huh? I would have a hard time thinking the body of the faucet is the cause as it is not changed out and things improve for a time. | cowbirdcat
Placitas, NM
February 6, 2008
10:33 PM | Again, Moricky, thanks for the positive encouragement. When they built this house, this shower/bath was apparently an afterthought or a late design change, because they neglected to put in shut off valves for the faucet. I couldn't believe it at first, but there's no way to shut it off w/o shutting of the whole house water supply.
That means I'll need to have my wife at the pump house shut off valve (about a thousand yards away, outside the house) with a cell phone so that we can do the flushing while I'm at the faucet. But your logic seems on the mark: the problem shouldn't be in the body if there's always the short-term improvement in function after a rebuild!
I needed that thought process and I willl carefully inspect everything when I disassemble. As for the strainers, yeah, they always need to be cleaned after a whole house water shut off and turn on, so you're probably right about stuff coming loose in the old pipes. I will let you know how things go after the procedure. | Moricky
Ballwin, MO
February 7, 2008
1:36 PM | Thanks for the feedback, Cowbird. Always nice to know we're not just talking to ourself. I'm not too surprised to hear the cutoff situation. Rural areas are especially bad about leaving them off to save a bit. I'm one that likes to have them close at hand. If there is a way to put one in inside the house I really like it. I had nightmares about some disaster like a pipe coming loose and having to go outside to the yard shutoff until I added some. Funny how much we pay for insurance for dying but are not willing to spend twenty bucks to save a split washer hose from flooding the whole house. Wish you luck on finding the fix. If you are in a hard water area, there will often be mineral deposits built up in the best of pipes. When I had a trailer with that deal, I would try to determine where I was working and knocking stuff loose and then go to a faucet that was at the end of that line to remove the strainer and flush the gunk, rather than letting it clog all the strainers and spend the next day cleaning them all. Other times I shoot mine own foot and don't even know it till years later. Bah! | cowbirdcat
Placitas, NM
February 11, 2008
10:12 PM | Just to follow up, I rebuilt the bath faucet this weekend with all oem Delta parts and flushed the unit as best I could (my wife operated the on/off valve at our pump house; we communicated by cell phone). Rust flakes and bits did come out, so I have the feeling that I will need to periodically go in and flush and clean it out to keep things working happily until the water softener unit cleans things out. At least I learned how to do it, and it all works without having to spend lots of money (more than a grand, estimated) to destroy what's presently there and install a new faucet. I welcome any other advice, and thanks to everyone for their advice to this point.
I didn't actually see any strange wear patterns on any of the internal parts, but I did locate a pair of the older, longer wasp-waist seats (in old leftover unused parts I have kept) , and I did put them in to see if it will make a difference. I figure that even if I have to do a clean-out once a month or so, it's more cost-effective per annum than the new install - and I am retired, so why not! |
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