| Author | Content |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 13, 2008 | I don't know if it's a small grower, or if its because of its aspect. It has frosting on the underside of the fan shaped leaves and is currently about 1.5 metres tall
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 13, 2008 | It has spines down the leaf stem
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| Metrosideros Keaau, HI May 18, 2008 | It may be some type of Trithrinax sp. Need flowers, fruit, trunk details. |
| wallaby1 Lincoln (UK) Zone 8a May 18, 2008 | The rigid leaves and colour suggest Brahea armata, it is slow growing. [HYPERLINK@www.jungleseeds.com] |
| Metrosideros Keaau, HI May 18, 2008 | If it were the blue Hesper palm, Brahea armata, wouldn't the leaves be different? Although, this Genus shouldn't be discluded; there are at least 16 Brahea species. Flowering parts and fruit will help with the ID. Any chance that this is a native palm, rather than a garden plant? |
| wallaby1 Lincoln (UK) Zone 8a May 18, 2008 | I'm not sure what you mean by different Metro, but if you mean colour it can vary. |
| Metrosideros Keaau, HI May 18, 2008 | Thanks Wallaby1, I was referring to the glabrous leaf, with tomentose description of the undersides. |
| palmbob Tarzana, CA Zone 9b  May 19, 2008 | sure looks like Chamaerops to me |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 19, 2008 | This palm is at my Education campus, and as part of an assignment I need to identify it. I will be there tomorrow and can take more phots of anything that will help to Id it. I'm not sure of its age, but will ask the tutor. He may not be very helpful. Its a cute little palm! I am going to a href="/guides/pf/">PlantFiles to look up Braheas, Trithrinax and Chamaerops. thank you all for giving me some leads to start with. Theres a lot of palms out there! Sue This message was edited May 20, 2008 7:10 PM |
| Resin Northumberland (UK) Zone 9a May 19, 2008 | I wondered about Chamaerops humilis too, but that doesn't have the colour contrast between the upper and lower sides of the leaflets. It is either green both sides (European origins; C. h. var. humilis) or silvery both sides (northwest African origins; C. h. var. argentea). Resin |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 19, 2008 | No, Its definitely glabrous (thanks metrosideros) Resin. Is there anything I can photograph (other than fruit or flower) that could aid in an ID? |
| Metrosideros Keaau, HI May 19, 2008 | How about a good descriptive photo of a leaf. Both sides. |
| palmbob Tarzana, CA Zone 9b May 19, 2008 | Thrinax have no spines along the petioles, at least not like those, and Brahea armata has much wider leaflets... not any Brahea or Thrinax species I can guarantee that. Chamaerops have dozens of appearances, from silvery white to deep green.. some have waxy coatings in the undersurface and some have a bit on both surfaces. the leaves of Chamaerops are also highly variable with clumped leaflets, ultrafine leaflets, leaves that form over 360 degree circles, leaves that are only wedge-shaped, heavy looking, wispy looking etc. But what tells me this is a Chamaerops are the deadly looking perpendicular petiolar spines (typical of all forms of Chamaerops) and the fibrous trunk appearance. How tall is this plant? Is it suckering like mad or is there only a single stem? As far as I am aware, few if any Thrinax sucker and only a few Braheas sucker (armata is not one of them). |
| wallaby1 Lincoln (UK) Zone 8a May 19, 2008 | "currently about 1.5 metres tall" Some Braheas also have white tomentosumon the backs of the leaves, and all but one, Brahea nitida, have thorny petioles but I couldn't say at what angle they are. As you are the palm expert palmbob, I bow out, lol, here's a list to look through on rarepalmseeds: [HYPERLINK@www.rarepalmseeds.com] |
| palmbob Tarzana, CA Zone 9b May 19, 2008 | Braheas do indeed have thorns but all are broad-based and most hooked somewhat. No Brahea I have ever seen has thorns or leaves as seen in the above photos |
| Resin Northumberland (UK) Zone 9a May 19, 2008 | Here's Chamaerops humilis var. argentea for comparison. Resin
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | Ok, this is a great debate, guys! I've done my best for some pics for you. Topside of the leaf
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | It has this funny looking raised ridge at the join of the leaf to the petiole.
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | Underside of the leaf
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | I think this is the flower, however, it looks as though finished. As you can see, vicious spines directed toward the leaf tip. (have some holes in my arms now!)
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | The fruit. You can see both fresh green and dried brown. Most were about the size of a large pea, but some were 1 and a half cm round. You can see the green fruit around the edge of the photo. There were two trunks close together and a small one between, and in front of the two. I assumed it had self seeded. There were no old leaves cloaking the trunk, but it is not a very tall trunk. The leaves were growing green from the crown, right down to the base of the trunk. I hope this helps you to help me with the ID. I have looked up the three suggestions in a rather good book, but haven't been able to digest all the relevant information, so your help is an invaluable research tool for me. So once again, thanks! Sue |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | whoops
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | trunk detail
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 20, 2008 | more fruit
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| palmbob Tarzana, CA Zone 9b May 20, 2008 | all extremely typical of Chamaerops |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 21, 2008 | So is that it then you think? Everyone else has gone quiet! If you all agree, I will take your word for it and mark it down on my assignment. If its wrong, I'll just blame you, ha ha. So, Did I do good with the pics? |
| Resin Northumberland (UK) Zone 9a May 21, 2008 | Certainly looks very like Chamaerops, the only problem for me being that white scurfy stuff on the backs of the leaves, I can't find anything to support that as a character of Chamaerops, either in photos or botanical descriptions. Resin |
| Metrosideros Keaau, HI May 21, 2008 | The brown fruit, the flowers, the leaf petiole spines, all fit the description of Chamaerops humilis in Uhl & Dransfields "Genera Palmarum". As Resin expressed, the coating on the underside of the leaf is not typical of Chamaerops. The cultivar, Camaerops humilis 'Green Mound' found in D.L. Jones' "Palms Throughout the World", comes closest to the gestalt of the plant. |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 22, 2008 | would it help if I got a close up of the "White Scurfy stuff on the back of the leaf"? |
| Metrosideros Keaau, HI May 22, 2008 | Yes, and all the close relatives of Chamaerops should be considered. As Chamaerops humilis is one big polymorphic species, don't disclude it. |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 27, 2008 | White scurfy stuff
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 27, 2008 | more white scurfy stuff
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 27, 2008 | new flowers forming
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| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 27, 2008 | and another view. i am going away for a couple of weeks from this Saturday, so cannot post any more pics of this palm. But I feel you are correct about the identity of this palm, it seems as though it is highly variable in its botany! Maybe due to cultural differences? If you agree, i will mark it solved. Sue
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| palmbob Tarzana, CA Zone 9b May 27, 2008 | no, I personally do not think any of your photos show anything much different or unusual about this palm... many individuals have patterning like that- it is certainly not unusual. I am surprised no literature remarks on that spotted/scurfing as it is extremely common in this species. But then there are many more individuals that do not have it, either. As mentioned, this is a highly variable species making shapes, leaves, sizes etc. that are so varied, many have called them different species. But it is undoubtedly Chamaerops, not just because it's typical, but it is so untypical of any other palm. |
| Metrosideros Keaau, HI May 27, 2008 | Hey Sue, What Bob says is good well founded dichotomy. You can't match it with text-book Chamaerops on leaf description, but it's the best conclusion. It matches Chamaerops on the flower structure, fruit; and leaves, it is a polymorphic species, meaning there's many forms; an explanation as to why it's not in a book (exactly). The environment that a plant grows in is a driving force, as to how the plant forms and develops. In Hawai'i there are Australian, Eucalyptus robusta, planted commonly on waysides. On Hawai'i Island they produce adventitious roots (especially near Glenwood). They are not known to do that in their native environment. Being in an unusual place for Chamaerops, the habitat could cause various phenotypic results for a polymorphic-monotypic Genus/species such as Chamaerops humilis. How about: Chamaerops humilis ' Coffs Harbour Fuzz'! Aloha, Dave |
| weed_woman Coffs Harbour (AU) May 28, 2008 | Ha ha Dave, you crack me up! Chamaerops humilis 'Coffs Harbour Fuzz' it is. SOLVED! Thanks again for all your help. I have a good palm book with quite in depth descriptions along the botany lines, but my eyes glaze over when I try to understand. And not haveing anything to compare it with doesn't help! Cheers Sue |
