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Japanese Maples: Glowing Embers - Good for zone 9a?

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GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

June 9, 2009
11:25 PM

Post #6665444

After poking around on various web sites and in different books I believe I have found another JM that I'd like to add to my little collection. The cultivar Glowing Embers looks like it will hold up well in Sacramento's (Zone 9a) heat and sun. But before I take the plunge I wanted to check in with the DG community for any feedback on this tree. One question I have, in particular, is if it needs full sun in order to achieve the striking color differences found on the leaves.




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wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

June 10, 2009
12:54 PM

Post #6667823

gardensox - bill here from redsox nation:) this tree was recommended to me by Davidsans maples for a spot that gets a lot of sun and that helps the color in the fall. check out his website for more details.
btw - i have not ordered this yet still under consideration
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

June 10, 2009
3:30 PM

Post #6668460

Hey Bill,

Thanks for the reply. That was a great win over the Yankees yesterday, don't you think? It's nice to see Beckett pitching so well again and even better to see Big Papi finally seeming to emerge from hibernation.

I checked out Davidsans Maples, actually (it's a favorite bookmark of mine). And I also checked out Pacific Coast Maples (closer to my zone) and both sites recommend it highly . . . I suppose I just need someone to tell me to go for it before I take the plunge! I need an enabler. ; )
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

June 10, 2009
6:47 PM

Post #6669296

GS yes it was a good game for redsox nation and we are hoping for more!

i have been communicating with David and he is also very high on Sieboldianum Sodo no uchi - i looked it up and it looks like a great tree and i believe hardy for your zone.

i have chosen the glowing embers only because i want it for a shade tree for a new patio and the Sodo is not as filled out as the ge he has in stock. will probably go back and get the sodo next year.

good luck with your choice.
pdjcalif
Ripon, CA

June 10, 2009
8:15 PM

Post #6669609

I have Glowing Embers here in Ripon in full sun. (About 75 miles south of
Sacramento). Grows well, but nothing spectacular for color here. Its been in the ground about three years now - 7' tall.

Good Luck
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

June 10, 2009
8:32 PM

Post #6669677

pdj what are the fall colors of the glowing embers?
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

June 10, 2009
9:16 PM

Post #6669835

Thanks pdj. That's good to know, even though it's a little disappointing to hear that the colors aren't spectacular. I wonder if it's because our fall temperatures don't get cold enough at night?
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

July 13, 2009
3:24 PM

Post #6813985

You probably hit it right on the head with climate differences or soil differences . The GE has very nice color here throughout the season. it is very pretty brilliant orange /red in fall .In mid summer in full sun it is a very nice medium light green with yellow and red highlights on the leaves. and has golden / red limbs in winter a real plus. Of course as always there may be differences in where you live or where you obtain your tree . There are also two GE's the original one is a red variety no longer in production .. I have it too but it is not spectacular . it was developed in BC Canada while the new GE was developed in the south for heat and sun resistance . Another plus for both Ge's that both are super hardy for me..That is undertandable for one developed in BC but highly unusual for one developed in Alabama. Dqavidsan
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 11, 2010
8:13 PM

Post #7622679

I've been taking a few pictures lately and thought I'd post some of the Glowing Embers I bought last year. It's still in a pot and I really need to find a permanent home for it, but so far I'm enjoying it right where it is.

I need a macro lens for my camera though!

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GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 11, 2010
8:14 PM

Post #7622681

Here's one taken on the same day but focused on some of the leaves that were farther along.

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GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 11, 2010
8:20 PM

Post #7622692

Time traveling now . . . this is a picture from back in November. This was actually new growth which made me nervous given that it was so late in the year but this tree was right up against my house this winter and I think that protected it enough from the cold.

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wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 12, 2010
5:15 AM

Post #7623247

gsox - nice - nothing close to leafing out here:)

did move out a large crab yesterday and planted a katsura that over wintered outside buried in the ground - also moved/slid a big viridis a few feet too - supposed to have rain all weekend so felt the time was right.
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 13, 2010
8:37 PM

Post #7627288

Glad that your GE is doing well Sox.

Lots leafing out here. Butterfly, Sango Kaku and many more. One of my seedlings is almost all out now. I love the new foliage on the Sango Kaku. It's so pale green and it's planted in front of a hedge of dark green redwood trees. It's a nice contrast.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

March 13, 2010
8:47 PM

Post #7627336

My cold frame trees are starting to leaf but but only now are the buds barely beginning to swell on my planted out trees.. That is good for here we really don't want them to pop til at earliest the 10th of April... As I always say be careful for what you wish for. early leafers are a killer and early springs a disaster.. now for Doss and G Sox this is not a big deal but for many other less "temperate" folks it is a very big deal David(san)
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 14, 2010
5:26 PM

Post #7629350

Here's hoping that they all wait until April 10th then David(san)! Late frosts can do a lot of damage but you are right that we don't need to worry about that here.
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 23, 2010
4:05 PM

Post #7651080

While browsing various sites I came across this comment regarding the Glowing Embers:

"Two distinct trees carry this name-a red form from British Columbia and a green selection from Georgia. The red cultivar was selected and published first; the green maple should be renamed."

Does anyone know how the process of renaming a cultivar works? Is that something that the Maple Society takes on? How does it happen that two apparently very different trees get the same name?

davesnursery
Milford, DE

March 23, 2010
4:13 PM

Post #7651102

I am looking at the Check List of Maple Cultivar Names and they only list one 'Glowing Embers'. The origin is Reimer Nursery and the information source is Vertrees/Buchholz.

I recently had to have a name changed on one of my finds and I contacted Peter Gregory in England. He was happy to help me.

Dave
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 23, 2010
4:16 PM

Post #7651109

Dave,

Here's a link to the site that I found the quote on. It's a nursery's site. I'm not familiar with them so I don't know if they are reliable or not, but they were part of a sticky posted on the UBC Botanical Forums.

http://www.buchholznursery.com/plant_page.html?id=cc369

Is Peter Gregory the head of the Maple Society?
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 23, 2010
7:08 PM

Post #7651523

davidsans also mentioned to me last year exactly what gsox is talking about with glowing embers before i ordered one from him.
davesnursery
Milford, DE

March 24, 2010
3:49 AM

Post #7652015

http://www.timberpress.com/author/peter_gregory/974

Peter Gregory is the chairman of the international Maple Society and the person I sent the information of my find Acer palmatum 'Verkade's Jacus Potus' to. He has also wrote a few books. I believe he is in charge of determining whether or not your plant is of the caliber to be named. As I said in a previous post I checked out the First Edition of the Maples Society's checklist and found only one 'Glowing Embers'.

If there are two plants of differing description then I would have to believe that one of them is not a registered plant. They are probably going on the same assumption I used to and that is if you find it you name it and then start to propagate and sell it. Times has certainly changed over the years.

Dave

This message was edited Mar 24, 2010 6:54 AM
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

March 24, 2010
7:18 AM

Post #7652327

According to my info and I can't remember who had stated this , but the above is correct . I have the "older" original GE that I got from Acer Acres several years ago .. it is nothing like the "newer GE . It as I understand it developed in BC and is no longer in production but some nurseries may still carry it .. maybe Acer Acres. It is nothing like the GE developed in Alabama ( I believe) FOR the south.and it's sun and hot temps.. The BC GE it is a basic red palmatum that is nice but of no special form or substance as far as I can see. It makes some sense it's production was stopped ;>) Davidsan
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 24, 2010
9:17 AM

Post #7652577

Very interesting. Thanks for the education, guys.

Both of the Glowing Embers I purchased are very green (as you can see from the pictures I posted above) and they were both from growers in the south so it is apparent that I have the cultivar that should be renamed if what I bought was truly being called a Glowing Embers in the first place.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

March 24, 2010
4:58 PM

Post #7653528

There are a ton of newer Jm's out there that are not registered..and most are not patented ... I bet their are many more not thqan are.. I have no idea whether the first GE was eithe3r registared or patented but I would guess not, and if it wasn't the name is fair game...and since it was out of production why not . The old name really didn't fit5 the tree it might have well been called " Big Red" whereas the New GE really fits it's name
Many growers just figure no matter what they only have a few years til fly grafters start grafting and get trees big enough to sell and they also know taking these "fly grafters"to court is expensive and when one is dealt with another will pop up. There are allot of reputable wholesalers who charge royalty fees for patented trees they sell or get permission . But I doubt most do and whether that money is just pocketed and the fee is simply in print to keep the heat off is a big ???? I doubt much of the royalties are ever paid. Many growers don't bother asking for payment from others to graft their trees but give perission just6 the same... It gets them a reputation for developing cultivars that is often worth much more than a few lousy extra bucks royalty pr tree. This is how I understand it anyway .. others like Dave V. may have better insights since he has been in the biz much longer and knows all the processes better than I . Davidsan
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 25, 2010
4:28 PM

Post #7655783

Can you explain to me a little more about a fly grafter is? From your post I gather that they aren't growers with scruples but I'm curious to hear more about them and how they operate.

This has all been very interesting to me and I'm thankful for the insights you guys have provided.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

March 25, 2010
7:08 PM

Post #7656264

It's my own term I should have explained it ... comes from the term fly dumping .. a person that illegally dumps ( at late night)refrigerators or other trash on the side of the road cause thy can't get the garbage man to pick up, are too cheap, or they are just idiots. .It is very common around here and a real problem). "fly grafting" similarly is just doing something surreptitiously on the side with no permission and then selling them on the side on ebay as twigds that folks will pay big bucks for since they are not otherwise avail and like fly dumping knowing it is unlikely they will get caught. David(san)
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

April 5, 2010
2:05 PM

Post #7682030

glowing embers leafing out here with the early heat wave we are having.

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GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

April 5, 2010
3:40 PM

Post #7682244

Looking good, wha! It's a fun time of year, isn't it?
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

April 5, 2010
6:04 PM

Post #7682667

yes it is only wish it was a few more weeks away - to warm to early
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

April 6, 2010
7:16 AM

Post #7683793

The long range forecast through mid April looks good ... It is a bit early but not like it was during the big disasterous freeze a couple of years ago .. Generally a light frost or even a night to around 30 won't hurt them much thety may defoliate and then re leaf be less full .. that one year we had 18 degree weather for 10 days at night and upper 20's in the day .. it was right about now.that it happened.. and the warm weather was in march that year mine were fully leafed by April 1st.. I think you will be ok Bill
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

April 6, 2010
9:04 AM

Post #7684047

i hope so - it gets a good dose of afternoon sun and that was the side of the tree that opened up first - neighbors have a sugar maple growing on thier side of the property that will offer some protection down the road - it is growing 3-4' a year - just a wild one, maybe 15' tall currently - hope they leave it.
Connie_G
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

July 24, 2010
2:20 PM

Post #7993654

I'm only a lover of JMs...but a green tree certainly could use a better name than "Glowing Embers"! That is obviously a mistake!
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

July 24, 2010
4:15 PM

Post #7993897

it is named after it's fall colors

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