Last year, only my orange tiger (L.lancifolium) had bulbils, so I was really pleased to just discover that at least 2 of my new lilies have bulbils too!!!! I think (no blooms yet) they're Blood Tiger (from buggy) and Robinson's Comet.
What other lilies are bulbil-bearers? And does anyone know how long it takes a bulbil to become an adult flowering lily?
Phyllis, that's what I'm trying to find out. The orange tiger bulbils I sent you last year were, I think, lancifolium. The only info I could find on the internet was that crosses between lancifolium and other lilies are likely to produce lilies with bulbils. I couldn't find any other info, which is one reason why I'm asking here - but nobody's answering!
The bulbils from the yellow tigers you sent me last year are in a starter bed, and have only one leaf each so far. How are the ones I sent you doing?
Hi There! I was just lurking in the Lily Forum and came across this thread. I'm no expert on Lilies but I do know that 'America' makes bulbils and it's an asiatic. I have 2 of them and on one of them there is tons of bulbils and the other has none. I don't know if it makes a difference but the one that gets more sun is the one with the bulbils and this is the first time I've seen them on these lilies and this is their 3rd summer. So maybe it has something to do with age?
Phyllis, my starter bed is so small that I couldn't lose mine - and I wanted to give them enough room, because I don't know how fast they grow.
Thanks Pardalinum. Isn't this bulbil thing great?! I'll have to check those out and see if they have lancifolium in their genes, or if any others make bulbils too. Maybe I should ask buggy about it. (PS - by the way, my pardalinum made its first blooms this year! I think it was you who advised me last year when they only grew a foot or so and died back. That was their first year here).
Steven, are you sure that "America" is a straight asiatic? I'm not familiar with it. Will look it up. Thanks.
Production of bulbils is originally a characteristic of certain species of lilies: L. lancifolium, L. bulbiferum, L. sulphureum, L. sargentiae, are the ones I can think off the top of my head. Hybrids that include any of these in their parentage, may (or may not) produce bulbils.
As you can see, all of these species are not all closely related, so no, they are not grouped in the same "family".
Leftwood, again you're a fount of knowledge! Thanks! I'm not at all familiar with those - except lancifolium. Do you know what exactly the category "asiatics" refers to, if it can incorporate a bunch of different parentages, since several of the ones with bulbils are listed in that category?
Asiatics are first and foremost, of Asian origin. It's a big group, and somewhat ambiguous, since trumpets and orientals are from Asia (mostly), yet they are not termed "Asiatic". These are names (trumpet, asiatic, etc.) given by the trade, and not botanical classifications. Although, it is true that asiatics as a group, are more closely related to each other than to any in other groups. Asiatics are most often (but not always) upfacing and outfacing, rather than down facing. A characteristic you can use to describe asiatics in general, but not one you can use to differentiate them from other groups, as other groups have up and outfacing flowers too.
All the species I listed are from Asia, except bulbiferum (Europe). Sargentiae and sulphureum are trumpets.
Phyllis, how's this for a theory - Maybe your adult ones that produced the bulbils last year died off, and the ones that came back are from its younger bulbs and they're not grown up enough yet to produce bulbils. - ??? So the one that didn't have bulbils last year is now old enough to produce them. ?? Makes sense to me.
Great stuff Phyllis. I've read it all before, but haven't done much digging up yet, since most of my lilies are pretty new, so I don't really have the "how to's" of this stuff in my head yet - but I will have to do a bit of it this fall.
When you dig lily bulbs up...be careful cause 9 out of 10 times their not where you think they are..
and you end up cutting the bulbs in half...they move themselves around and send up their stalks
lots of times at an angle...So start out and work your way in...carefully...LOL
Hooray! I planted Zeus last fall (just flowered - does it get more than 2 feet tall next year? I was surprised how short mine are.) - And I ordered Tiger Babies for this fall. I just love those bulbils because it makes me think they'll increase more rapidly - and I can trade them too, before I have extra bulbs. How long have yours been planted?
I think this is the 4th year for Tiger Babies and the 5th for Zeus, and they were both short the first year, but have been 3-4' tall ever since. They both do increase nicely.
Rick, glad to hear Zeus has done well for you! Same here with the Tiger Babies you sent- I wish more cultivars were as strong as these. The main difference this year is we're having a really pleasant growing season, cooler than usual, plenty of natural moisture, and relatively few pest issues. This is the 3rd year they've been in their current location.
Thanks Neal. I'm glad my Zeus is likely to grow up.
Well it's interesting to discover that bulbil-capable lilies don't necessarily produce bulbils, nor do it every year. I wonder if anyone has an answer as to why this is?
That is what I was trying to discern from Neal: what it was that made his Zeus and Tiger Babies produce bulbil this season, when they normally don't.
From the aforementioned "Mike's" site: The formation of bulbils can be induced in some varieties by cutting off the flower head before they get to the small bud stage.
I supposed he could add that there are other unknown factors that may also spur bulbil production. It's pretty tedious though, and since these factors are so ambiguous, I think I would leave it as he did. His site is fairly good, but I do take exception to his treatment of species lilies. Take my advice and skip that section.
Something interesting I observed today about those stem bulbils- each stalk only has a few (3-5), and they're concentrated around the top of the stems, right around the inflorescence. Not like the Tiger Lily that has them all up and down the stem.
Interesting stuff. I wonder if the unusual cooler than normal and rainy weather has something to do with Neal's lilies producing bulbils. I know lots of strange things are going on in my garden with the exceptionally cool and rainy weather. I have an aconitum blooming and helenium and japanese anemone in bud, all 1 to 2 months early. If the weather's telling them its fall and they haven't yet reproduced, maybe bulbils are a way to do that. ???
I have bubils on Tiger Lily Splendens-no surprise there,on Commander in Chief-a cluster at the broken tip,on Queen of Spades-low on the stem and on Red Dutch-also low on the stem.
We have had extremely hot weather with one full week over 100 degrees.The temps have moderated now to their usual low to mid 90's.These temps killed the tops of some varieties but the bulbs seem to be ok.
That's really interesting ("a cluster at the broken tip"). It's beginning to appear that they'll do whatever they have to to reproduce. that and the extra hot weather there - the extra cool weather here - insects and animals going crazy chewing on them...
I assume that you usually don't get bulbils on Commander in Chief , Q of S, and Red Dutch?
SW, make sure those bulbils take, to be sure you'll have more.
Sorry to take so long. I took a good look yesterday and I really didn't find as many as I thought I had seen. I think the only other one is Zeus. Sorry if I disappointed you. If I find any others, I will let you know.
I have bulbils on 13 different varieties. Some bulbils are rather large, some very small, some at the top of the stalk, some all the way up the stem, varying quantities. Seven of them didn't bloom this year, some bloomed very well. Some were new to me this year, three are third year bulbs from The Lily Garden and have never bloomed. They've come from various vendors...Our summer has been unusually hot and dry, with everything blooming earlier than usual.
Seems Asiatic is the common denominator for the most part in this list.
Firetruck, Marilla, Starburst, Blood Tiger, Taco Sauce, Zeus, Zeus Pink, Champagne, Cathedral Windows, Bali Hai, Loreto, Yellow Star and First Crown.
We'll go down to the minus 50's several times during the winter for a couple days to a couple weeks and will stay in the minus 40's for weeks at a time. North Pole (south of Fairbanks) is located between two mountain ranges so very little wind. An arctic desert all year. We've had more 80 degree days (and a couple 90's) in the last 3 weeks than we've had in the last few years during an entire summer ...Last year we had the cold, wet a lot of other parts of the country have this year.
I'm originally from CT, 1/2 south of the MA border. Where is Jamaica Plain?
Jamaica Plain is part of Boston. I can't even imagine what minus 40 or 50 would feel like (to humans or plant life). And we have barely started our hot weather this year. I don't think we've hit 90 yet. How strange the weather has been!
I have a tiger lily when you all talk about bulbils are you talking about the seeds that are all over the stem from top to bottom. I know that I started out with just one and now have about 7 out there blooming. I just figured the seeds dropped and that is how I got the new ones. Am I correct if not please let me know what bulbils are. My tiger lily is orange I am wanting to get the other colors they are so pretty. I have lilies all over my gardens but these are the only ones that I have ever seen seeds on.
Thanks perenniallyme for the information now that I know what you are talking about when is a good time to pick them off I would love to get them growing in other area of my gardens. Also if I wanted to do some seed trading over in that forum would this be something I could use to trade?
If what you're seeing is like this http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6824687 then they're not seeds, they're little bulbs, hence the name bulbils. They can't be stored like seeds as any type of lily bulbs is never truly dormant.
They can be traded as long as both parties understand how to handle them and that they need to be planted promptly.
Bulblets are another way that lilies clone themselves and these grow along the stem, underground.
Thanks for the information I thought I could store them so I need to just take them were I want them to come up and get them in the ground. As far as trading them not a good idea because I don't know what I am doing. Help me here please I am very interested in getting them growning in other area of my gardens.
Can you tell me how to handle them for trade this is very interesting to me. I am talking to experts I love this any information would be helpful. Lilies are one of my favorite plants I have them all over my gardens and I go every year about this time when I find them marked down and buy them up I think I have bought about 25 this year already. I am looking for more interesting ones that can grow in zone 5. I seen one posted in here called dots and dashes been on different web sites looking for them with no luck.
I would plant them a half inch deep. You can store them for trade in a ziplock bag with barely moist peat moss or vermiculite, just as you might store larger bulbs, or similar to the ones you would buy mail order. I would keep them in the frig, or they might sprout, and you need to pass on this info to the one you trade with too.
P.S. I have a non-blooming Pink Panther making bulbils, too.
We need a comprehensive list of bulbil makers. And from this thread, here it is. Please correct any mistakes. I will keep the list updated.
Always = the type produces bulbils ever year.
Sometimes = plants must be induced (somehow) to produce bulbils.
Unknown = I couldn't tell by the post which it is of the above.
Alex 2 - unknown
America - sometimes
Bali Hai - unknown
Blood Tiger - always
Cathedral Windows - sometimes
Champagne - unknown
cheryl Ann - sometimes
Commander in Chief - sometimes
Dryrot - always
Firetruck - sometimes
First Crown - unknown
Indian Brave - always
Lilium bulbiferum - always
Lilium lancifolium - always
Lilium lancifolium var. flaviflorum - always
Lilium lancifolium 'Flore Pleno' - always
Lilium leichtlinii - sometimes
Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii - always?(please see discussion below, beginning July 25)
Lilium sargentiae - always
Lilium speciosum var. album - sometimes
Lilium sulphureum - always
Loretto - sometimes
Marilla - unknown
Momentous - always
Nutcracker - sometmes
Ove - always
Pink Panther - unknown
Prawn Tiger - always
Queen of Spades - sometimes
Red Dutch - sometimes
Robinson's Comet - always
Rochelle - always
Starburst - unknown
Taco Sauce - always
Tiger Babies - sometimes
Tropical Dream - sometimes
Yellow Electric - unknown
Yellow Star - unknown
Zeus - sometimes
Zeus Pink - sometimes
That's right perenniallyme,
Unknown = the person who posted regarding said lily was unclear (at least to me) in his/her writing, whether the bulbil production is "sometimes" or "always". But it is at least one of them.
If known, I would appreciate a clarification.
Actually, I have two first year Pink Panthers from bublets, one blooming, one not. They both are growing bulbils. Mainiac or anyone else, what say you? Is PP sometimes or always?
Great - love those bulbils. I'm finding that while my lancifolium bulbils grow fast and quickly detach themselves from the stem, the bulbils on blood tiger (very large now) and robinson's comet are still stubbornly stuck to the stem. Especially peculiar as these have already bloomed, while my lancifolium hasn't bloomed yet.
I'm a bulbil fan, too! I'd put Taco Sauce in the "always" column for me. Last year both Buggy's vds#4 and l.speciosum album had tons of bulbils, so far none this year.They were new for me last year, though. I haven't seen any on Zeus or Firetruck either, but I'm having a hot and dry summer this year-could that be contributing???
Lefty, yes, I'm quite sure-was quite surprised myself last year. I figured it had something to do with one being a species lily? Vds#4 looks closely related to speciosum as well. Anyway, as a result, I've got a load of baby lilies this year. It'll be another year or two before I know who I've got for sure, though.
Not sure if this counts, but this lily known as DC #1 had bulbils last year and this year. It had bulbils present even before its first blossom. Of the DC's that have bloomed thus far, it is the only bulbil maker that I have seen.
Thanks P-me for the nice comments. I really like it a lot, we shall see how she does over time, but she's still blooming as of tonight, so she's lasting quite a while out there. She gets points for producing bulbils, don't you think ?
I just noticed that my Yellow Electric (first year here and a bit short and scrawny) has teeny weeny bulbils. Had to take a 2nd look to be sure they were there, but they were. None on my Electric though.
Some years ago I moved provinces in early june so nipped off all buds as soon as I saw them. You'd be surprised at the numbers of asiatics that produced bulbils.
Mainiac, thanks for the picture of Alex 2. Now I have another one ID'd. BTW, did you know that Alex 8 has finally been registered as Burnett's Beauty. Most of mine are labelled Alex who knows #.
Do you have Alex 3 & 4 as well? If so what colours are they.
That's great, Moby. Who else?
It seems like there are far fewer bulbils here this year than last. Lancifolium, of course, Blood Tiger, and Robinson's Comet have them, but less than last year. I haven't noticed any others.
I can report that L. leichtlinii and L. leichtlinii maximowiczii both produce bulbils. The former in my experience only when it is a blind stalk. Last year I had the biggest bulbils I have ever seen on a blind stalk, (see photo). The L. leichtlinii maximowiczii produces a lot more, so much so that I wonder if it has some L. lancifolium in it. (I got them in trade simply as "red tiger"). Also, of course, L. lancifolium flaviflorum has them too.
P.S. If that is supposed to be L. leichtlinii in the immediate background of you pic too, then you definitely have an imposter. L. leichtlinii pedicels (the flower stems that originate at the vertical stalk) are at practically right angles with the stalk.
Well, I just went out and looked at my L. leichtlinii this morning, and it seems the pedicels after flowering do ascend a bit more, enough to make that pic of yours within a species variance. But, this is only an FYI. I still question it's species designation.
Also, what makes me think it is not L. lancifolium is that I am not an idiot and I have both the possible L. leichtlinii maximowiczii and L. lancifolium and the difference is obvious. Here is L. lancifolium:
Gosh, really I only wanted to get to the bottom of your assertions, as experts far more learned than us disagree with you. I can't tell if the variance in you maximowiczii pic is within the parameters of the species or not.
I am not going to argue. My jets are "cooled," and I truly didn't mean any malice, but my plane hasn't turned around. I don't recall ever referring to you as an idiot, but I will say I have called myself that sometimes. LOL
I'll put your experiences on the list. Regarding maximowiczii, perhaps you can find some supporting evidence from another source that I couldn't find. With such dissension between you and what seems to be all the other experts, herbarium specimens, etc., I feel it only fair to include a caveat.
Actually I got the "red tiger" from the same person twice. The plants received the first time do not have bulbils, but the second batch has had them. I have become less sure of the "max" ID as time goes on. I will try to locate some correspondence I had on the subject of bulbils on L. leichtlinii with at least of the Lilium group people.
I would concur about the blind stalks being the most likely to have bulbils. The L. leichtlinii that had them last year had flowers this year and no bulbils.
No luck finding the correspondence but it said, as I recall, just what is being said here that (some?), stems without flowers are more likely to produce bulbils than stems with flowers.
Pard, can you be more specific? Did Yellow Electric have bulbils all the other years too?
Yes, I've been following the yahoo lilium group. No significant discussion of bulbils that I remember, unless I missed it.
Actually since the yellow form of leichtlinii seems never to occur outside those few islands in Japan, I am inclined to think it may be a true variety. Even notwithstanding your pics, plantsrok, it seems other characteristics gleaned from other sources are different too. But I have to agree that mostly, color is not enough for a varietal differentiation.
Last summer, at my grandmother's cottage, (where L. lancifoilium were planted in the 1930's or 40's, the lilies that 1st sparked my interest), I noticed three plants in a row, next to the path down to the lake. I am VERY curious to see this summer whether or not they will bloom as L. lancifolium flaviflorum, I put several bulbils in that area a few years ago. If they bloom yellow they will be the first known-for-sure plant from bulbils for me, (although I suspect some of the propagation in my garden may be due to them as well).
I saw fewer bulbils last summer, except on the lancifoliums of course.
Anyone have any thoughts on the effects of this very mild wet winter on lilies? I know the effect will very greatly with different species, I only hope some of them like it.
Rick, I don't know now why I got so fired up that one day long ago, Must have been having a bad day. Sorry.
Oh guys, not to change the subject, but speaking of lilies, I'm afraid I won't be planting any more, and will probably be digging up a bunch of them in the spring, as the lily beetles were really terrible this year, and I had a hard time keeping them under control. Less lilies, less lily beetles and inspections and beetle massacres to deal with. I sure hope they won't be traveling to your areas, or you'll see what I mean.
So am I, pirl! I've had them for several years, but was always able to get most of them before it became a big problem - that is, until this past year. This year (2011) I saw them crawling up out of the ground (never saw that before) in April and it was a huge battle until fall.
I haven't tried bayer or sevin. I try to keep away from the really toxic pesticides, though I've been using neem oil to some extent. Mostly I knock the beetles into a jar and drown them, and pick off any leaves that have larvae deposits and drown them too. It worked pretty well until recently.
I have used pesticides for years and still have bees,butterflies,birds,spiders ,you name it. Ihave noticed an absence of fireflies all over the country but thats from the univeasla use of lawn chemicals.
Bayer products all have imidiclopris ( sp) it attacts soft skinned insects ie larve. It is necessary to drench when the beetle is in the larve stage.Early spring, just as the lilies break ground.
It is a product that is also used for bearded iris.
My bulbils did not appear until about a month after the blooms went. I am watching to see if they grow larger. They were on the asiatic "cocktail twins," and I'm hoping they will be good growers. They were very pretty reddish orange lilies.
I just noticed this thread.Hi,I have a question,I have grown lilies for years,but paid no attention to where I planted them.Then this year,where I had 'Pink Perfection' trumpet several years ago,these 5' gangly weeds showed up.I thought that they looked lily-ish,but no bulb underground.Could that have been a spent seed,or bulbil?