| Author | Content |
Landscaping92
Asheville, NC
(Zone 7a)
July 03, 2009
12:57 AM Post #6771480
| My neighbor was telling me that she had a tree die and the person who cut it down said that it died because of a nail that was nailed into the tree she said the person who cut it down says nails poison trees he said he could tell the nail killed it by the black brown streak inside the tree. Is this tree trimmer right. |
edgeoftheworld
Conneaut, OH
(Zone 5a)
July 03, 2009
08:10 AM Post #6771902
| I have heard that copper nails will kill a tree.I would think it would take a number of them to do it.Regular nails are not going to kill a tree.Edge |
Landscaping92
Asheville, NC
(Zone 7a)
July 03, 2009
04:46 PM Post #6773654
| Thankyou. |
Texasroses
Marlin, TX
July 07, 2009
04:45 PM Post #6789925
| It's a terrible idea to pound a nail into a tree. Eventually that tree is going to need pruning or to be taken down, and nails do a real job on chain saws!
|
Pegmumm
Mount Vernon, WA
July 27, 2009
02:09 PM Post #6871711
| There is an old saying that the best way to get an old apple tree to blossom is to put a nail into it.
Here in our Pacific Northwest Forests people nail old growth trees to discourage cutting of forests. The chainsaw hits it and rebounds against the cutter.
Nails don't kill trees. It could be that someone used the nail to seal a hole that had some sort of herbicide in it. Someone may have wanted that tree dead.. hmmm I have this neighbor with a tree that shades my garden... hmmm...
bad peg, bad bad peg |
dp72
Woodway, TX
(Zone 8a)
July 27, 2009
04:11 PM Post #6872175
| The tree just grows protective tissue around the nail. It does no damage whatsoever.
Why drive nails in trees? |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
July 27, 2009
09:19 PM Post #6873346
| Nails won't hurt the tree. Sawmills won't buy trees with nails because of the discoloration. I can't believe someone would be stupid enough to drive nails into trees they don't own, with the hope the sawhand will be injured. The reason we have as many forests as we do is because of the reforestation projects of logging companies. |
jcoakley
Chicago, IL
(Zone 5b)
July 27, 2009
11:34 PM Post #6873954
| Gosh, I hope no one thinks I'm crazy, but I put a nail in our honey locust so I could hang a pouch of impatiens from it every summer . . . I love it and the tree doesn't seem to mind either. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
July 28, 2009
12:05 AM Post #6874034
| Your not crazy. I've driven nail in several of the trees around my home for various purposes. What I was referring to was some wacko driving nail into trees that don't belong to them for the purpose of stopping a logger from doing his job. The guy that would get hurt would be a hired hand not the owner of the logging company. On time of that, all it would really do was dull the chainsaw. It would have to be an awfully big nail or the saw would cut through it. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
July 28, 2009
07:28 AM Post #6874633
| I agree with Jim. Putting a nail in a tree to cause problems for workers simply isn't a nice thing to do and could end up doing extreme physical damage to the person. |
mcbc11787
North Reading, MA
(Zone 6b)
July 31, 2009
03:06 PM Post #6890197
| We just hung a bird house from one of our trees but we used a plastic wire tie cause hubby didn't want to bang a nail into it. Not sure why, though... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
SunnyBorders
Aurora, ON
(Zone 5a)
July 31, 2009
04:29 PM Post #6890610
| As all above, think somebody should put the tree trimmer straight on some facts.
Quite a few of us have seen nails (usually iron, or assumed to be iron) in healthy trees. Tree spiking, as said (iron has not been the only material used) is obviously not intended to kill the trees, though it's a stupidly dangerous thing to do.
'The Tree and Shrub Specialist' says that iron nails were previously driven into fruit trees to encourage fruit bearing, under the misconception that it would make up for iron deficiency in the soil. It also says that harm from copper nails is a misconception, copper previously having been a main ingredient in many fungicidal sprays.
To Peg, with the neighbor's tree, know how you feel. My wife's grandmother,
had a spouse who was a mine chemist (access to chemicals) and was a lady of action. She drilled into the tree and put in saltpetre (potassium nitrate). Sounds like more "eco-terrorism" to me. For girdling, you'd have to trespass on the neighbour's property. On the other hand, maybe you'd better stick to shade gardening!
|
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 06, 2009
09:08 PM Post #6916445
| Here we tap maple trees for sap to make syrup...here's an excerpt from a maple sugar farm. It doesn't hurt the tree at all, and I agree booby trapping a tree for a logger to get hurt is wrong.
"Before we will tap a healthy Maple tree (Acer Saccharum), it needs to be at least 12 inches in diameter. To reach this size, a tree needs to grow for about forty years. When we go into the woods to tap trees in season, we carry a drill (either manual or power), a hammer, buckets, covers, and pockets full of spouts. After selecting an appropriate maple tree, we drill a hole about [10] inches into the tree at waist height. While older spouts require a 7/16" diameter hole, the new health spouts we use need only a 19/64" hole. After firmly inserting a spout into the hole, we tap it lightly with a hammer. On a warm spring day, sap will immediately start to drip after tapping." |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 06, 2009
09:15 PM Post #6916480
| I'm pressed Lynnie. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 06, 2009
09:29 PM Post #6916555
| pressed how? *grin* |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 06, 2009
09:45 PM Post #6916634
| At my age it's a wonder I can walk and chew gum at the same time. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 06, 2009
09:47 PM Post #6916640
| mmm-hmmmm...I think you do ok ;) |
RachelLF
Rural Retreat, VA
August 06, 2009
09:49 PM Post #6916652
| Wow Lynnie, that's tremendous information concerning gathering sap from a Maple tree!
Thank's |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 06, 2009
09:52 PM Post #6916660
| I'm out of my class with some of you guys. Thought I knew a little something before I got on here, now I realize how little of something I knew. I wonder if that makes sense to any one but me. Oh well. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 06, 2009
09:54 PM Post #6916667
| Hey Lynnie, that's the pressed I was talking about. Just like Rachael said. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 06, 2009
10:00 PM Post #6916696
| well you're welcome but it was easy enough to cut & paste the info in there..."we" does not mean me personally lol remember that song 'you were born in the city
concrete under your feet' Up until a few years ago I was more comfortable with the sound of sirens than crickets.
|
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 06, 2009
10:01 PM Post #6916700
| Jim all we really need to know is how find out what we don't know. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 06, 2009
10:08 PM Post #6916739
| You sure your not a red neck? |
RachelLF
Rural Retreat, VA
August 06, 2009
10:14 PM Post #6916778
| Lynnie, you got to say your a red-neck too;-) I am most certainly a RED-NECK and proud of it! |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 06, 2009
10:18 PM Post #6916796
| Do youuns wair calico dresses over yore blue jeans and wear brogan shoes. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 06, 2009
10:24 PM Post #6916821
| LOL! if being a redneck is the ultimate in common sense, count me in!
what are brogan shoes? I love shoes, I have lots of shoes, I was shoe shopping today, only bought 1 pair (well 1 pair each for the kids too). I completely lose my common sense when it comes to shoes though. My user name should be Imelda. |
dp72
Woodway, TX
(Zone 8a)
August 06, 2009
10:38 PM Post #6916908
| I had never heard the word brogan until I was in my 30's. Most people use the word to mean cheap, poorly-made, ugly shoes. Some mean a work shoe- it might be good for that but nontheless ugly. It's not a brogan unless it's clunky and ugly. Granny in Beverly Hillbillies. (her shoes, not her) |
RachelLF
Rural Retreat, VA
August 06, 2009
10:42 PM Post #6916961
| dp72, would you mind taking a look at kwanjin's post concerning the Chamaecyparis obtusa.
Thank's
Rachel |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 06, 2009
10:43 PM Post #6916966
| uh oh, no brogans for me then...I buy my shoes based purely on form, not function. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 07, 2009
12:41 AM Post #6917436
| Brogans have to have three eyelets at the bottom and three of those things you loop the strings around at the top. They were probably cheap, because we wore them in the field choppin cotton. I don't know about the poorly made. They were tough, lasted a long time and I hated them with a passion.
My wife has a passion for shoes. She would buy a pair for each foot. What gets me is when she goes to the closet and says, " I don't have any shoes to wear with this." I'm looking at at least 40 pairs of shoes and can't believe it.
I make a confession, I have a passion for shoes, too. Women's shoes. When I see a woman, I don't look where most men look, I look at their feet to see what their shoes look like. Ya'll wear the ugliest shoes I have ever seen and pay big money for the privelege. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 07, 2009
08:40 AM Post #6917986
| Jim I never pay retail (she says with a straight face). I can't buy ugly shoes...I try but I always end up with the prettiest pair I can find. Took me 5 years to get a pair of snowboots kept coming home with boots that can't get wet *grin* |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 07, 2009
09:46 AM Post #6918161
| Lynnie I ate to be the one who bursts your bubble but some are just less ugly. Boots, well that's a different story. |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 09, 2009
09:09 AM Post #6925529
| In regards to nails in trees. Nails don't hurt trees, what hurts is when the nail is taken out. Sap pours out of the hole which attracts borers and other insects. Borers and beetles carry all sorts of diseases - for instance, the Elm Bark Beetle carried dutch elm and we all know what happened to our wonderful elms. The insects who live on the sap excrete frass (bug poop) which then causes a fungus like mold which then harms the bark etc. etc... Birds that live off of sap in trees, like the woodpecker aren't eating the sap, they are eating the insects that are attracted to the sap. Birds will peck at the tree and come back later for their dinner.
If there is a nail in a tree, say for a birdfeeder, leave it there. By the way, NEVER use tar to fill in a whole or a wound from pruning, the tree will naturally "heal" itself, tarring will only deter the tree from taking care of itself.
Okay, too much information, but as an arborist I cannot help myself!
Andrea |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 09, 2009
09:25 AM Post #6925581
| Good information. Thanks. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 09, 2009
10:00 AM Post #6925701
| Andrea I never turn down good info, thank you! :) |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 13, 2009
11:42 AM Post #6942376
| Rope and wire pose a much greater threat to trees than a nail. We lost a 14 in diameter limb off a live oak because the previous owners tied a nylon rope around the limb when it was smaller. The rope girdled the limb and severely weakened it. When the limb snapped during a hurricane, we found the rope imbedded in the limb with tons of bark over it, but damage to the cambium and constricted growth. |
dp72
Woodway, TX
(Zone 8a)
August 13, 2009
12:57 PM Post #6942618
| What an awful thing! Can you imagine anyone tying a wire or strong rope around a limb? Evidently somebody did. |
mcbc11787
North Reading, MA
(Zone 6b)
August 21, 2009
10:53 AM Post #6972089
| Aschnapp - great info! Thanks for sharing!
Any help on this one: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1029165/ |
andrea411
Mantua, NJ
August 23, 2009
11:05 AM Post #6979109
| COPPER NAILS ARE USED TO KILL TREES,
We have used copper nails to kill tree stumps so my husband can pull them out with the tractor. If the stump is dead, they come out easily without pulling half the yard with it. We have 7 acres which we have spent years clearing and gardening, and those copper nails have been a great help...so why people would say they don't harm trees is beyond me, they will kill a tree in a year.
I have done this to no less then 30 tree stumps, it worked every time
it is my understanding that galvanized nails have zinc that might harm trees
Iron is used to help fruit trees bear more fruit...it is especailly helpful when buried at the root base when the tree is planted. I don't recommend damaging a trees bark, especially a young tree. It may heal or it might be a source of infection.
the fact that copper is in fungicides, only means the copper kills something... a fungicide goes on the exterior - very different then leaching into a tree for a few years.
In a pinch pennies work too - don't tell anyone... |
dp72
Woodway, TX
(Zone 8a)
August 23, 2009
03:36 PM Post #6979999
| You don't think the stumps would have died and decayed without the copper nails?
The iron in the metal that nails are made from is not in a form that a plant can utilize it.
If you drill holes large enough to insert copper pennies, you are opening the tree up to infection. |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 24, 2009
10:06 AM Post #6982559
| I have gone back to my text books and have read up on copper toxicity. (Arboriculture, Harris, R.W.,second edition). Andrea411 above writes that copper nails kills trunks...then goes on to say that it will kill a tree. First, a trunk is not a tree, it has a much smaller body area and therefore the cambium is easily effected by copper toxicity. Yes copper will help in getting rid of trunks - it will make the bark peel off, but the process of dying had already begun with the removal of the top part of the tree without the trunk, copper just puts another 'nail' in the coffin. Too much copper will produce stunted roots and a reduction in foliage. It would take many nails to produce the amount of copper to see these kinds of results. Soil profiles that have a large amount of copper can not be amended to change it. It would take replacing of the soil itself to reduce the copper level. The reason I mention this is to speak of quanity of copper in the soil that actuals shows symptoms of copper toxicity vs. the quanity of copper in one nail that can produce bark removal. If you need to add copper you may do so by using a Bordeaux mixture (copper sulfare and lime) - plants do need copper but it is rare to see copper deficiency. If Andrea has success in using copper nails to get rid of trunks, than go for it. Make sure you take the nail with it! Copper will kill bamboo, but don't use nails! Andrea (not Andrea411) |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 24, 2009
10:13 AM Post #6982590
| Thank you for the information. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 24, 2009
10:17 AM Post #6982612
| Good to know info Andrea, thanks.
"another nail in the coffin"...(GROAN) grin |
dp72
Woodway, TX
(Zone 8a)
August 24, 2009
11:51 AM Post #6982916
| Can we put this one to rest? |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 24, 2009
12:13 PM Post #6982987
| dp72 - Sorry to go on, but I was asked to respond to Andrea411 post. May it rest in peace. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 24, 2009
12:30 PM Post #6983047
| I'm the one who asked Andrea to respond and she did a great job of explaining it. |
dp72
Woodway, TX
(Zone 8a)
August 24, 2009
04:28 PM Post #6983852
| Thanks all, esp. pirl and Aschnapp whose response was funny.
But then I wanted to put it to rest, didn't I? My bad. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 24, 2009
04:57 PM Post #6983942
| Maybe the devil made you do it. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 24, 2009
05:07 PM Post #6983966
| She certainly nailed it. Grin |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 24, 2009
05:20 PM Post #6983997
| But not with a copper nail. She knows better. |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 24, 2009
07:47 PM Post #6984549
| You guys just crack me up. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 24, 2009
08:04 PM Post #6984606
| Hang on and we'll nail you back together...grin |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 24, 2009
08:11 PM Post #6984637
| While you're cracking could you please tell me how many copper nails I'd need to eliminate what we call a "junk" tree that's actually a Negundo http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot... maple seedling (per Bartlett Tree Service), now about 8' tall. It's going to take down the dog's fence and grows between the fence and the cement in the dog's pen and I'd like to use the tree as a trellis for the clematis that's already climbing on it.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Early in the spring I assumed an awkward position and scraped the bark off with a knife cutter all the way around (maybe 6 to 8") for a length of 2" and the tree ignores my work and continues to grow. Then I was told to go 1/2" deep all the way around. I age more every time I try and kill this thing. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 24, 2009
08:54 PM Post #6984759
| You could always salt it. Or get Dicambre...it is a herbicide for woody plants. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 24, 2009
09:21 PM Post #6984876
| Would I have to spray the Dicambre? If so that would kill the clematis, right? |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 24, 2009
10:40 PM Post #6985156
| Yeah...it would. Okay, back to the nails...grin |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 25, 2009
12:16 PM Post #6986685
| Oh boy that's a good one...Ace negundo or Box elder (good example how common names can be a problem since it really is a maple). Here is the solution to your tree problem. DILIGENCE, DILIGENCE, DILIGENCE. A tree cannot grow without leaves as we all know because that is their source of food. After removing it, cut off any green that comes back up. Suckers will come up as well. Now I know I am going to nailed for this one...after cutting it down, pour a little gasoline on the stump. I hope no one out there has a nail gun on me... |
claypa
West Pottsgrove, PA
(Zone 6b)
August 25, 2009
01:25 PM Post #6986910
|
| Quoted: | | ...pour a little gasoline on the stump |
That's just downright stupid, and criminal. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
01:29 PM Post #6986925
| I just want the tree dead but left in place to become a trellis (of sorts) for the clematis.
If we could dig it up (without removing the cement and the fence) we would but it rooted itself behind the wood pile in the ideal location for it to grow unnoticed, so digging is not an option. Gasoline isn't a choice either unless we want to demolish the fence.
Of course, if we used gasoline and the fence went up in flames and set fire to the wood pile we could have a big neighborhood cook out.
I'll take photos and report back tonight for hammering out more ideas. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
01:30 PM Post #6986934
| claypa - gasoline is often used to stop the growth of a stump. We've seen people do it and if it takes two to four ounces it's a lot. |
claypa
West Pottsgrove, PA
(Zone 6b)
August 25, 2009
01:32 PM Post #6986942
| I often read articles about well water contaminated by MTBE. Whether it's done often or not, it is a crime. And stupid. |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 25, 2009
01:38 PM Post #6986971
| Leaving a tree to die but remaining as a trunk can be considered a hazard. This tree grows incredibly fast and I can assume that it is probably only a few seasons old. I guess I did not understand that you wanted the remains of the tree so you can keep it for a trellis. Try to dehorn it (remove all but the useful branches) and keep removing the green on it., Excuse me, but what 'law' did I break since now I am a criminal? I guess Claypa has the nail gun on me now. |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 25, 2009
01:40 PM Post #6986976
| Okay Mr. environmentalist, read what Pirl wrote. A few ounces not the whole tank. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
01:42 PM Post #6986986
| Uh oh! Don't get nailed.
Thanks for the information. It will take diligence since the clematis is already growing on the tree. As for being a hazard, since it's about 8' tall and wedged in place I doubt it could hurt anything.
I guess it wouldn't work if I stripped the bark for a foot in length all the way around the tree? That would be a good winter job. |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 25, 2009
01:43 PM Post #6986989
| Before we range a war here, is vinegar okay? A 20% solution of vinegar on the trunk, if indeed you want to cut the tree down can be used. This is agriculture grade. Vinegar has been used many times in my garden to kill weeds and does a very good job at it. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
01:43 PM Post #6986991
| It's not a case of saturating the ground with gasoline but just lightly covering the stump so it will stop growing when it's burned. The gas goes up in flames. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
01:44 PM Post #6986995
| I'll try the vinegar today. Thank you so much. |
Aschnapp
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
August 25, 2009
01:45 PM Post #6986997
| Pirl. Boxelder grows where it does because it is a survivor. Stripping the bark may work but it can also recover from it as well by compartmentalize(or healing) the wound on the trunk. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
01:46 PM Post #6987000
| I'll go the vinegar route. It's far easier than stripping the bark. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 25, 2009
02:13 PM Post #6987063
| You can take a drill and drill a few holes at a 45% angle and fill the holes full of round up. that'll do the job, too. Aschnapp, don't you know all us Southerners are criminals.
Now you take Pirl, she is one sweet, Yankee. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
02:17 PM Post #6987077
| Ha!
Y'all have got me out there with copper nails, gasoline, vinegar and now a drill! What next - dynamite?
Edited to add: maybe I should try beating it do death with some andouille sausage and okra!
This message was edited Aug 25, 2009 2:18 PM |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 25, 2009
02:21 PM Post #6987089
| Well, I guess it would get the job done. It has a lot of uses. It is good for fishing, too. I guess that would be a criminal act as well. Well shucks folks, I'm just an ignorant red neck and we do things a little different than normal people. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
02:49 PM Post #6987171
| Okra? Gasoline? Copper nails? Which one is good for fishing? |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
04:33 PM Post #6987485
| if you're going to waste good andouille sausage, send it to me! lol |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
04:38 PM Post #6987497
| Andouille is good for fishing...and you are not a card-carrying Yank if you eat andouille and okra...Grin
I don't know know if I'd want to turn on the drill while swabbing on the gasoline...might turn you into a whirling dervish.
You could use limb loppers and cut some of the smaller limbs back a bit and use a paint brush dipped in straight undiluted round-up to paint the cuts. It will take a while, but trimming the branches back a little and painting the cuts 3 or 4 times will eventually kill the tree. Anytime we have had to remove a tree...and we had to take out 26 when we moved here, we paint the stump with round-up IMMEDIATELY after making the cut. No stump sprouts much after that. And you won't burn down the fence...grin |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
05:03 PM Post #6987567
| Andouille sausage for fishing?? Those must be some good fat fish lol |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
05:08 PM Post #6987577
| That was the only thing I could imagine Jim was talking about...don't think fish eat okra... |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
05:23 PM Post #6987632
| I love all the food I've had in New Orleans but just can't take the okra. Just had Red Beans and Rice last week.
When I finally get to posting photos you'll see how much the clematis has taken over. I did remove many branches and took before and after photos. I also dumped 1/2 gallon of vinegar at the base of the tree. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
05:24 PM Post #6987641
| Won't that kill your clematis? |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
05:30 PM Post #6987666
| The clematis is planted 10' away but likes to roam. Right plant, wrong spot. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
05:37 PM Post #6987702
| I love cajun cooking. Made a huge pot of sausage & chicken gumbo for the last party. Yum. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
06:20 PM Post #6987824
| Sounds yummy. Do you use okra in it? |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
08:08 PM Post #6988198
| no, we only have frozen okra here...I use celery, peppers, garlic, and either onions or scallions...(I always confuse my gumbo recipe with my etouffee and my jambalaya recipes...one takes onions one takes scallions, and one takes shallots...a lot of times I just substitute..yes I should double check before heading to the store..lol).
Anyway I'm big on fresh not frozen, plus the kids are in picky stages, I don't think they'd eat okra. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
08:13 PM Post #6988215
| Please let me know the one that takes shallots. Ours did great this year. Thanks. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
09:01 PM Post #6988393
| I use all three interchangeably or together...I always use frozen okra...let it thaw and put it in the skillet on low and cook it till it breaks down even further...when it is rather a paste consistency add it to the rest of the veggies while they are saute-ing. Kids won't even know it is there and it is what is used to thicken the roux. Sort of Gumbo glue. grin Do you make red or brown jambalaya? |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
09:13 PM Post #6988436
| okra glue that's funny! I use butter & flour for roux...sometimes olive oil & flour.
I do use the 3 things interchangeably, also, I always have onions in the house, but if I want to be precise I'll go out for scallions/shallots or whatever.
I don't know if it's red or brown, it has tomatoes in it does that make it red?
I like to throw shrimp in all three dishes also. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
09:22 PM Post #6988479
| You make a creole gumbo. Creole recipes use tomatoes, Cajun recipes use meat stock and roux.
I had a small meltdown over Red Lobsters commercial for Wood grilled shrimp jambalaya with rice...Jambalaya IS rice with stuff added to it. That seems to be a hard concept to get across...original jambalaya was rice cooked with a hambone for flavor and whatever veggies on hand thrown in, later it became seafood or game or fowl...it is such good food I hate to see cajun cooking misrepresented on national TV. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 25, 2009
09:28 PM Post #6988501
| I agree. It's a meltdown of the culture just for the money.
Last week I made a pot of Pasta Fagioli soup. Originally it was a no meat Lenten dish but now recipes begin with "brown two pounds of ground round". I finally found the one I wanted and it was great. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
09:36 PM Post #6988527
| thanks Moon, I like to be correct...the cookbook I have does say creole & cajun on the cover, so I guess they covered their bases...my husband & I have wondered what is the difference, now we know!
You'll be happy to know I've never seen Red Lobster's commercials :) I rarely watch TV. I also turn my nose up at chain restaurants. I'm such a food snob.
Chain restaurants would do well to market to each region, instead of one blanket ad for the whole country. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
09:39 PM Post #6988540
| The culture and cuisine here are unique...it is okay to copy it, just don't junk it up and call it cajun.
Growing up, I was raised protestant, but our neighbor was New York Italian. Every year for Good Friday, she would bring over a big pot of Pasta Fagioli for her good neighbors even if they do go to the wrong church...she was a trip and it didn't have meat in it. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
09:41 PM Post #6988547
| ok I have to make a confession...I sometimes serve the etouffee on angel hair pasta with garlic bread & red wine :) |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
09:44 PM Post #6988564
| There is nothing wrong with that. Etouffe is more of a stew to be served over...fill in the blank...The name does not imply the ingredients as does jambalaya. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
09:46 PM Post #6988576
| I don't call it cajun! I call it Italian etouffee!
lol
etouffee is a french word, a Romance language, like Italian, so that's acceptable.
|
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
09:47 PM Post #6988582
| right, Italian stew... |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 25, 2009
09:52 PM Post #6988610
| You guys don't know fish bait when it is right out in front of you. I was talking about the dynamite. Guaranteed results, everytime.
Ya'll are also starving me to death. I ate supper about five and was doing alright until the food chain started. Lord, am I hungry. I like all of that good stuff. Like my gumbo aged for two or three days for it to get right and like it hot. Pasta, any way you fix it, I like it. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 25, 2009
09:58 PM Post #6988645
| Etouffee is the only way I've ever eaten crawfish and liked it. We had a principal at our school who was from Lake Charles that really could cook Cajun food. He didn't speak English until he started school. Man was that good. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
10:13 PM Post #6988698
| please tell me what part of the crawfish do you EAT? It looks like all shell. At least with lobsters I know what I'm doing *grin*
And thanks to Pirl I'm now craving those New York deli black & white cookies... |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
10:14 PM Post #6988705
| Sorry Jim, I thought you were talking about the andouille sausage. I was laughing so hard at Pirl attacking the boxelder with a sausage link, I didn't even see the dynamite... |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
10:18 PM Post #6988713
| You eat the tails, any claw meat large enough to fool with and the fat. And you can boil the heads for stock, but that's where I draw the line...darn Yankee sensibilities...grin
Lots of the kids I went to school with had to translate for their parents...I grew up "down da bayou" |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
10:25 PM Post #6988745
| Ok, lobsters have tails & claws big enough to fool with, crawfish do not...that looks like a LOT of work for a teeny tiny bite!
I was at the same time laughing about the sausage link attack and envying her her maple. I have maple envy.
And I'd never waste andouille sausage on a fish...that stuff is expensive here! |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 25, 2009
10:27 PM Post #6988749
| Hey guys, Pirl had mentioned andouille sausage to me in an email. I'd never heard of it. Saw it in the store a couple of days ago. Started to buy some to try but Jo was rushing me so no sausage. Never had black beans either and saw some of them in a can. Didn't figure that was what Dave was talking about. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
10:36 PM Post #6988787
| I use the andouille sausage in my creole recipes :) jambalaya, etouffee & gumbo.
Sometimes I make a stuffing out of it & stuff chicken breasts. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 25, 2009
10:40 PM Post #6988802
| Gotta get a score card...the conversations are bleeding across threads and I keep having to look to make sure I am responding to the right person about the right topic...
Oh Jim, slice andouille and lightly brown it to use in gumbo or jambalaya Mais jamais...dat's some kinda good, ya Cher. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 25, 2009
10:53 PM Post #6988856
| Got to try that good stuff. Any good on the grill? |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 25, 2009
10:53 PM Post #6988862
| good lord if we all lived closer together we'd be big as houses lol |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 25, 2009
11:15 PM Post #6988933
| I'm thinking about taking a few weeks off and driving to each of your houses and let you feed me one of those good meals your writing about. I could do some weeding to work it off and maybe keep the ole weight down. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
07:16 AM Post #6989518
| Everyone was busy chatting food as I was sleeping. No wonder I was so restless!
They've changed pork so dramatically that there's seldom much flavor left so I do enjoy sausages of all kinds but Andouille and Chorizo are even great as an omelet filler - a real wake up call in the morning.
I do make my own chicken stock and have a bag in the freezer for leftover onion chunks, carrot peelings, carrot and celery ends, etc. so when I want to make a pot of it all the veggies are ready. Love the smell in the house when we wake up and the crock pot is going with the stock.
In the end I didn't beat the tree with any type of sausage but I did use a food product, vinegar. Now I'm probably repeating myself but I did stick with the food family and decided against the dynomite.
Jim - please tell our audience about your minister friend and the supper/dinner story. And Jim - please don't try Jambalya on the grill - much too messy!
Here's a lobster roll, two in fact, that we enjoyed in Maine last year.
Has anyone seen Julia and Julie? It was great fun!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 26, 2009
07:31 AM Post #6989556
| mmm chorizo!
I want those big lobster claws right now! yum! |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
07:44 AM Post #6989666
| Our local grocery makes some of the best green onion Chorizo and Itallian sausages. A chorizo, sweet onion and pepper omelet with smoky Chipotle really gets the day going.
We make a pretty good oro bianco with chicken breasts, Italian sausage, mushrooms and a creamy white wine sauce, with thin slices of browned garlic...served over wild and pecan rice. and Black bean, chirozo and chicken enchiladas work for this crew...along with lean pork and chirozo jambalaya...num-yummy.
Haven't seen J&J yet, but it is on my list. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
07:56 AM Post #6989690
| My problem with food is people who won't give things a try. I have had okra in soups and I do like to experiment with all kinds of food. How boring life would be eating the same food items repeatedly and knowing every Monday night would be meat loaf for years on end. I'd be bored to death. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 26, 2009
08:03 AM Post #6989712
| Pirl I make my own stock a lot of the times too, what a great idea to freeze veggie scraps. I freeze my steak bones for beef stock, never thought to freeze my veggie scraps. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
08:18 AM Post #6989747
| I agree, it is way to easy to fall in a rut and meals become chores rather than good times with the family...One meal a week around here includes something new or different. Everybody critiques and makes suggestions and we discuss what we would like to try...getting a teen to contribute to dinner conversation with actual words instead of grunts and shrugs is good stuff...get them in the kitchen young...lots of fun and makes for a more capable youngster. BUT, just make sure they also learn to help with the clean up.
My oldest friend and I put together a "You are on your own" survival guide for our kids (6 of them) full of easy quick recipes of favorite foods, easy desserts, kitchen tips, cooking times for meats, ingredient substitution guide, laundry hints and general easy repairs for everything from hems to repairing lamps and leaky faucets. We slipped the pages into plastic sleeves and bound them in small vinyl ring binders...nice feeling when you walk into your child's home and see it prominently displayed with the cookbooks...grin |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
08:26 AM Post #6989771
| I know someone who has broccoli every night as their vegetable. I'd learn to hate it very fast. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 26, 2009
08:27 AM Post #6989775
| wow what a neat idea Jean! Cooking also helps them to learn fractions, have them double or half recipes.
I hate meatloaf...i make it but i don't like it. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 26, 2009
08:29 AM Post #6989780
| I eat a lot of broccoli...good power food. I like it with lemon & pepper. not every night though! |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
08:31 AM Post #6989786
| I love that idea!
For Christmas one year I made an A to Z (my maiden initials) cookbook for my daughter with photos of her most prominent but also photos of my parents and my son in it. So we have A is for Adorable and Apple Pie, etc. All of her favorite cookie recipes are in it as well as desserts and appetizers. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
08:32 AM Post #6989792
| I like broccoli cooked briefly, then I put oil in the pan with garlic, almost let it brown, add hot red peppers and toss it all together. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 26, 2009
08:33 AM Post #6989795
| Pirl what a nice gift! |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
08:35 AM Post #6989800
| Try rolling the meat mix out into a rectangle and layering thin slices of ham or proscuitto with grated parmesan or thinly sliced swiss cheese and then rolling it up like a jelly roll. You have to adjust for kids, but we also add thinly sliced seeded hot peppers, onion, and or bell pepper. It turns a plain lump of ground beef into a Roulade...Also make a quickie Shepherds pie by add mashed potatoes and cheese and rolling them up in the seasoned ground beef. You can pretty much make a stuffed meatloaf with any of your families favorites. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
08:36 AM Post #6989804
| Thanks. It was a good idea but I had no idea how much work was involved when it got to printing the recipe to fit the precise size of the 4 x 6" space allowed for it.
Some of the letters were challenging! |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
08:40 AM Post #6989820
| Sweet treasure for your daughter, Pirl. Family food and history. We have recently discovered carmelized Rose vinegar for green veggies...it adds a light sweet/tart flavor and enhances the natural flavors...actually got the kid to try Brussel sprouts and he thought they were Okay, not gross. Grin |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
08:42 AM Post #6989826
| We love baby Brussels sprouts but baby lima beans (home grown) are beyond resisting. I eat every one while my husband sits patiently at the table sorting them by size. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
08:45 AM Post #6989834
| Speckled butter beans are my favorite...when we were kids we often had butter/lima beans, mashed potatoes and corn for supper...never really noticed there wasn't any meat with the meal...grin |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
August 26, 2009
08:50 AM Post #6989852
| I get testy with people who insist on a big piece of meat as the centerpiece of their meal. I also have trouble with people who can't accept a big salad with either some chicken, sliced leftover steak or a few shrimp as dinner. A big salad doesn't even require any meat or chicken to be a delightful summer meal to me. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
09:01 AM Post #6989897
| My dad was a meat and potatoes man as were uncles and grandfathers...hearty farm food. Great when you have your own chickens, pigs and cattle...tough when you have to purchase from the market. I will never be a strict vegetarian, but I just don't believe that meat should be the main focus of a meal.
We would make SuperSalad when our kids were young...Drained canned tuna and nearly everything you can mix in a salad, veggies, cheese, sunflower seeds, cold plain spiral pasta, small bits of apple, walnuts...and let the kids put together their own concoction...only rule was Lettuce did not constitute a veggie and you must have at least two. |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 26, 2009
09:12 AM Post #6989930
| I hate tuna and I hate shepherds pie...I hate anything in my mashed potatoes lol
I like each food to speak for itself (I like to call it simplistic, others call me picky)
I make meatloaf because the kids & hubby love my meatloaf, I'll swallow it but blech.
I need a lot of protein with my physical job & workouts.
I'm off to the gym, just had peanut butter on wheat :) one perfect protein right there.
|
dundeelaw
Litchfield, IL
August 26, 2009
03:07 PM Post #6991140
| I screwed two screws into a silver maple to hang a goldfinch feeder, and the tree doesn't seem to notice they're there.
This message was edited Aug 26, 2009 2:09 PM |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 26, 2009
10:34 PM Post #6992748
| Here's the story Pirl requested.
I had a preacher friend from a little country town called Olla. He was going to Mid-America Seminary in Memphis. He and his family really had to live on a tight budget. On Sunday and older couple invited them to dinner on Monday. Boy were they excited, a good home cooked meal and all you could eat. They could hardly wait. At straight up noon they arrived at the home of the couple and rang the bell. The little lady came to the door and a look of consternation crossed her face, then she put on a big smile and invited them in. All they got was a sandwich and chips. Country folks eat dinner at noon and supper in the evening. Country come to town!!!
I absolutly refuse to eat meat loaf. No how, no way. One lady in a former church still snubs me because I refused to eat her world famous meatloaf. The story is: Our daughter had decided she was going to marry the guy she was dating (he just didn't know it yet). She came in one night and told her Mom, that when Tony got in from Off Shore, she was fixing supper for him. "You don't know how to cook," was Mom's reply. "I will by the time he gets back," said she. So, every night for a week she cooked, meatloaf, corn, and greenbeans. Seven days the same meal. Hey gang, we are poor folks, we have to eat what's on the table. When Tony finally came in Ava had it down to perfection. He was convinced she was one of the world's greatest cooks. Me, I'm just glad he was working 7 and 7 instead of 14 and 14. To this day some twenty-eight years later, I have not had meatloaf in my mouth. Gag at the thought. Oh yeah, Tony found out she wasn't the world's greatest cook, he does 99% of the cooking at their home. Now he is a different story. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
10:37 PM Post #6992758
| Too funny Jim. You are a good dad...with wrecked taste buds...grin |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 26, 2009
10:44 PM Post #6992782
| You got that right sweet heart, the wrecked taste buds I mean. I guess that ole boy was a keeper. He showed up one night after midnight. Came straight to our house from off shore. I knew it was him when he let off the gas on that old truck of his, never did have a muffler. Everyone was in bed but me, so I got my pistol and put it behind my back and went to the door when he knocked. When I opened the door I cocked the pistol and put it right between his eyes. "What do you want, boy?" "Can I see Ava," he said. Don't think he even noticed the pistol. Knew I had lost her right then. When the sound of that pistol cocking don't put them in high gear, you might as well give up. So, I went and woke her up and went to bed. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 26, 2009
10:48 PM Post #6992795
| A wise man knows when to hold'em and when to fold'em...you are a wise man, Jim. grin |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 27, 2009
04:17 AM Post #6993257
| the way to a man's heart...
Ava is a pretty name Jim. Only men recognize each other by their cars lol "I knew so & so was here, I saw ol in the driveway & they have an oil leak."
dundeelaw I pulled a silver maple sapling from the ground next to someone's garage & planted it, it's growing pretty good. I don't think much bothers them. |
Jim41
Delhi, LA
August 27, 2009
10:30 AM Post #6993914
| All we had picked out was boys names, decided as she was going into the delivery room we better have a girls name just in case. Always thought Ava Garderner was about as pretty a woman as I had ever seen. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
August 27, 2009
10:51 AM Post #6994021
| Ava Gardener had that classic beauty...pretty as the girl next door, but with a touch of the royal to her...so elegant.
Dundeelaw, I think it has more to do with the size of the trunk and the size of the screw or nail used, than it does the type of tree. I have seen folks around here use eye-screws to help secure a leaning tree after a storm...don't know if that is the "best" method.. but it is done and the trees survive it. Trees are pretty much capable of encapsulating a foreign body in the trunk and growing on...we see them engulfing fences all the time...the thing they have a difficult time surviving is when something is wrapped completely around a branch...creates a problem called girdling...and this can crush capillaries that feed the tree, often causing the limb to die. |
flowers_delight
Leicester, NC
(Zone 8a)
August 30, 2009
10:56 PM Post #7006893
| Nail or no nail now thats the question. Lets vote lol |
Lynnie6868
(Zone 5b)
August 31, 2009
07:48 AM Post #7007680
| flowers I guess it depends on your intentions lol |
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL
September 01, 2009
09:18 AM Post #7012341
| Nail or screw? |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
September 01, 2009
09:26 AM Post #7012375
| Why would you want to put a screw into a tree? |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
September 01, 2009
10:35 AM Post #7012619
| For the same reason you would put a nail into a tree...to hold something to the tree. And a screw is less likely to pull out than a nail. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
September 01, 2009
10:41 AM Post #7012644
| In fact, we did put a screw into a tree to hold up a plaque but either the weight of it or the heat of the sun wore out the attachment on the back of the slate and it fell one day when we were within a short distance of it so that's something to keep in mind. |
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL
September 01, 2009
10:44 AM Post #7012654
| I agree with moonhowl. As brutal as it might sound to put a nail or screw into a tree, if you intend to hang something from the tree, a screw would be better than nail. A nail can come out much more easily than a screw, elevating the risk of disease. Screws should stay put for a very long time, if not indefinitely. |
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL
September 01, 2009
10:45 AM Post #7012660
| Pirl, if I read your post correctly, it seems to me the screw outlasted the attachment. Wouldn't you want that to be the case, rather than the nail being pulled out of the tree? |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
September 01, 2009
11:17 AM Post #7012779
| Yes, the screw did remain in place but I'd hate to have been working close to the tree when that piece of slate fell. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
September 01, 2009
11:36 AM Post #7012844
| I agree, Pirl, that would have been dangerous, but it was the less sturdily attached metal hanger rather than the screw that gave way. You would think that that whomever sold the plaque would have considered the weight...what if it had been hanging over the sofa?
I think the gist is, that while it is not necessarily a good idea to drive nails and screws into trees, common sense must prevail if you do and you should use the same caution as you would in hanging something on the walls of your home. |
pirl
Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)
September 01, 2009
12:04 PM Post #7012962
| Agreed. |
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL
September 01, 2009
12:14 PM Post #7013000
| I agree. This is why every time I buy a piece of artwork or art-structure to hang on the wall, I ALWAYS reinforce the hangers. I've had one-too-many pieces fall from the wall due to sub-par hanger points. My hangers would still be sitting on the wall, but the hanger points would have broken from the rear of the piece. |
flowers_delight
Leicester, NC
(Zone 8a)
September 01, 2009
02:58 PM Post #7013611
| Slhame, I otta beat all of ya with a wet noodle HaHaHaHaHa I'm sure most logsmen look for the hazards of nails before they cut. |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
September 01, 2009
03:09 PM Post #7013641
| No body here is spiking trees, Flowers, just decorating them a bit. Those folks that drive large nails into trees to stop loggers are dangerous...even loggers have families they need to feed and hitting a large nail with one of the big chainsaws they use could severely injure the logger, if not kill him. Gotta get priorities straight...trees are important to our well-being, but not worth the life or livelihood of a fellow human being. Besides, taking out the logger doesn't stop the destruction of the trees... |
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL
September 01, 2009
03:45 PM Post #7013789
| What kind of hippie would do such a thing? |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
September 01, 2009
03:55 PM Post #7013837
| Only the miss guided ones...or the blind sheep followers of a truly mean spirited one... |
claypa
West Pottsgrove, PA
(Zone 6b)
September 01, 2009
04:03 PM Post #7013865
| When a forest is spiked, it's usually made known with signs so it isn't logged. Most sawmills use metal detectors anyway, because trees can have any number of metal objects in them, signs, fencing, posts, clothesline hardware, bullets, and nails.
Resin mentioned in the tree forum that aluminum nails are used for tags. It's better than steel if it winds up being sawed down for whatever reason. |
flowers_delight
Leicester, NC
(Zone 8a)
September 01, 2009
04:04 PM Post #7013869
| I agree somebody always spoiling the apple. Loggers have my utmost respect, its extremely hard work and does a lot of things for the people. |
claypa
West Pottsgrove, PA
(Zone 6b)
September 01, 2009
04:10 PM Post #7013879
| Just so you know, some hippies are loggers or sawmill owners who spike the trees on their own land, and mention that fact in the deed, so the forest can grow without being cut down for money in the future. |
flowers_delight
Leicester, NC
(Zone 8a)
September 01, 2009
04:13 PM Post #7013892
| thought we were out of the caveman way of thinking |
themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)
September 01, 2009
05:51 PM Post #7014317
| Most of the injuries to loggers was experienced back in the 70's before anyone thought to tag forests. Someone would get the idea to help Mother Nature and randomly drive a few nails into a stand of trees earmarked for removal, or just any tree. Years back a former roommate's husband lost his leg cutting down scrub pines on his own property. Someone took it upon themselves to drive a dozen or so ten penny nails into a bunch of the pines and his chain saw hit one and bucked on him nicking the femoral artery...he managed to use his belt as a tourniquet, but by the time he was able to get to help, too much time had past and the leg had to be amputated...sad story...misguided conservationist...a family plunged into major financial straits... |
flowers_delight
Leicester, NC
(Zone 8a)
September 01, 2009
05:57 PM Post #7014340
| when all they needed was a can of spray paint. Go Figure |
