| Author | Content |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
August 02, 2009
01:38 AM Post #6896581
| http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/0907292108
Scientist at the U of MA appear to have a major achievement.
“In very short order we increased the power output by eight-fold, as a conservative estimate,” says Lovley. “With this, we’ve broken through the plateau in power production that’s been holding us back in recent years.” Now, planning can move forward to design microbial fuel cells that convert waste water and renewable biomass to electricity, treat a single home’s waste while producing localized power (especially attractive in developing countries), power mobile electronics, vehicles and implanted medical devices, and drive bioremediation of contaminated environments.
I can't wait to hear the rest of the story. Are you willing to give up your compost pile for a lower electric bill? For sure, I'd like to recycle what exits the sewer pipe. Can you picture 2 motorist standing in the middle of the road arguing over a dead possum so they can take it home for their bugs? Silly you say? Maybe not.
I scan Science Daily 2 or 3 times a week to see what's happening and these are exciting times indeed, on all fronts. I believe science will save us but we better have some $ to take advantage of it.
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garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)
August 02, 2009
03:15 AM Post #6896678
| This reminds me of the "bio-neural circuitry" of the starship Voyager. LOL!
It will be interesting to see where this goes. Humans are finally starting to emulate plants. Imagine the shift in pick-up lines..."would you like to come home and see my chloroplasts?" |
grownut
Clarkson, KY
August 02, 2009
09:25 AM Post #6897102
| Oh golly, guys-n-gals, shoot me now!!
If we live to see the day where all that renewable biomass provides all our power...what will power the soil? There's almost no humus in the soil where I live now. Sorry, but this scares me. If people are part of either God's plan or Nature...our poo should count for something beyond electric power...
I'm all for renewable, but want to be taking from a system that won't be overbalanced by the taking to get my power. And healthy soil is a dying breed, IMHO.
Downer me... |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
August 02, 2009
02:05 PM Post #6898039
| http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1009771/#new
Here's a recent thread about San Francisco mandating composting. I can imagine it's a PITA but for a great cause. There's waste everywhere and as noted in this thread folks are ignorant, lazy or otherwise unwilling in many cases. When something like this makes the headlines, it means it's a rare event and needs to spread.
Landfills, waste treatment plants, septic tanks and incinerators are wasteful and the obvious places to start with recovery of energy with microbes. As evidenced by the collecting of aluminum cans and the deposits some states put on some bottles, the public can be motivated by financial rewards.
This microbial fuel cell technology sounds to me like would first be marketed to consumers in the form of something simple like exchanging the batteries in you camera for a fuel cell. What's going to upset me is if manufacturers choose to market it in a size that's incompatible and requires throwing out everything and buying new. But that's how things have been going.
It also sounds like there would eventually be small scale models available for home owners, farms and industrial plants to generate their own electricity from on-site waste. I'm imagining something that would be affordable and commonly available like we're all hoping solar panels and small windmills will be someday.
My impression is that people around the world are working like fiends on new sources of energy but there's a bottleneck when it comes to application. I think the bottleneck is finance. New developments are coming so fast and furious that nobody wants to risk a large investment today because they fear rapid obsolescence and also that if the manufacturers hold back until oil prices skyrocket again, it will be far more lucrative. In the meantime, the patent offices are swamped with energy related applications and our "officials" are paying farmers to grow corn. Then there's the carbon footprint matter. A lot of players are trying to figure out what the ultimate regulations/incentives will be.
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garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)
August 02, 2009
03:30 PM Post #6898290
| Grownut, we may be reading different articles. I don't think the bulk biomass generators will be viable if they destroy the biomass. Tapping into the methand generated by landfills/garbage dumps is helpful though.
I am interested in following the development of the microbial fuel cells that are working with the algaes etc. Solar power can provide the additional electrial current need to help the microbes convert the carbon dioxide to useable methane.
| Quoted: | Microbial electrolysis cells do require an electrical voltage to be added to the voltage that is produced by bacteria using organic materials to produce current that evolves into hydrogen. The researchers found that the Archaea, using about the same electrical input, could use the current to convert carbon dioxide and water to methane without any organic material, bacteria or hydrogen usually found in microbial electrolysis cells. ...
...The cells are about 80 percent efficient in converting electricity to methane and because they use carbon dioxide as feed stock, would be carbon neutral if the electricity comes from a non-carbon source such as solar or wind power. |
We need a portfolio of alternative energy solutions to fit the various climates/geographic resources. I don't see any one source supplying all our power needs.
Finance is not the only bottleneck, patent ownership/control also comes into play. Many creative people have developed successful applications of alternative power. The most successful patents are often purchased by the oil companies and then shelved to preserve their profits.
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grownut
Clarkson, KY
August 02, 2009
04:16 PM Post #6898433
| I know I didn't read as carefully as I could have. Just that here I am in a position to see what 'pre-harvesting' all these wonderful resources does to the land itself and it scares the bejeebers out of me. I love the discussion that goes on here and the info that comes out of you wonderful people. But...gotta say what I see too. In a few places around here we are starting to see people putting plant matter back into the ground instead of taking off every single thing they can get (cutting the corn down to the nubs, nothing left for deer or ground etc.) Hope to see improvements in those fields. |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
August 02, 2009
04:45 PM Post #6898544
| Grownut that is one of my big concerns too. Before ethanol, I think a lot of the corn plants went to animal feed. Now it's ethanol and then the animals get what's left after that process if I'm understanding correctly. We hear a lot about no-till farming and we know there are no weeds due to herbicides. That leaves only those little nubs and I can't believe that's enough. All I ever hear about commercial farmers and many home gardeners using is NPK fertilizer and possibly lime. That leaves out a bunch of micro-nutrients. Obviously if you keep taking out, sooner or later there's nothing left.
Already it has been established that the average produce in our stores is less nutritional than it used to be. Duh!
I think ethanol is a major mistake and I strongly resent public $ going to support it. |
grownut
Clarkson, KY
August 02, 2009
04:51 PM Post #6898562
| Same here, TwiggyB, thanks. I just think of (well deer starvation was a big problem in Indiana at one point) all of the plant and animal matter that would normally go into that ground...NOTHING is getting put back in there. It would be like a gardener taking off all manure and plant matter and selling their compost, then spraying with Miracle Gro next season and expecting healthy soil. Frightens me. Of course doing nothing is no solution. But we in this country are so prone to giving 110% to any course of action before predicting the consequences. (with corporate help, but not going there...) |
garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)
August 02, 2009
05:19 PM Post #6898678
| twiggy, I'd appreciate it if you would mention the name of the article that you originally posted. When I click on the link in your original post, I get a Science Daily post that says the article has been moved. I looked for the most recent article on alternatie fuels, but really think I must have read something completely different. |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
August 02, 2009
05:44 PM Post #6898789
| http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090729210821.ht...
I tried the first link and got the same weird screen.
Here is the intended link again. The title is: NEW MICROBE STRAIN MAKES MORE ELECTRICITY, FASTER. |
garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)
August 02, 2009
06:54 PM Post #6899072
| Thank you for the updated link. That is a different article.
In this context, I view the "biomass" used to produce electicity as the solids and sludge in the watewater, not garden or farm waste that could be more appropriately composted to enrich the soil. |
grownut
Clarkson, KY
August 02, 2009
07:15 PM Post #6899155
| Well...I came up with a bazillion more questions...
And I happen to believe that human fecal matter should be a part of a balanced ecosystem...which puts me out there with "the whackos" (though I grant you the way we tend to suck down medication these days is a concern) Anywho... |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
August 02, 2009
08:12 PM Post #6899368
| Yes but the researcher did say "renewable biomass" which is the identical term used for what feeds the digesters now used for methane and ethanol which are far from carbon neutral.
This is so totally better because it makes electricity directly which could be used on-site or fed back to the grid. He's also talking about powering small devices such as pacemakers. That leads me to believe these microbes have a significant lifespan or multiply rapidly and the supply unit can be very small. Take that a step farther and it sounds like there would be room for one in every backyard or a closet in every apartment.
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grownut
Clarkson, KY
August 02, 2009
10:12 PM Post #6899867
| Dang...shoot me now...but what if those microbes escape into the wide world???
(I don't want to be Miss Negativity here and it does sound wonderful, but BLAST my cynical mind-n-all!!) |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
August 02, 2009
11:42 PM Post #6900215
| Well they found them living in the mud under the Potomac River so I guess they'd either have to sink or swim. These particular ones aren't GMOs. lol.
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garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)
August 02, 2009
11:59 PM Post #6900260
| grownut, many microbes are beneficial. Think of the soil microbes that helps feed your garden, or probiotic cultures that make yoghurt and cheese, or sourdough bread etc. Lots of folks take spirulina or blue green algae as a nutritional supplement.
I didn't see anything to indicate that the microbes used for generating electricity would be pathogenic. And if they use the sewage for biomass, after the electricity has been generated, there would still be solids remaining for use elsewhere. Who knows, maybe the electrical microbes would transform the pharmaceutical contamination into something non-toxic.
Have you ever read Mycellium Running? Fungi and other friendly microbes do alot of bioremediation of toxic waste that humans create. |
grownut
Clarkson, KY
August 03, 2009
06:46 AM Post #6900771
| What worried me was that they have been working to hype up the evolution of these things. They are not evolving naturally in situ. They are being er...hyper-evolved perhaps? I just wonder about the effects of having one portion of one ecosystem evolve way beyond the rest and then spread to an infinite variety of ecosystems. If the stuff were put back under the Potomac would it still be good even though its emissions are hugely amped up? Would its escaping into the Mississippi, for instance, make a difference to the ecology?
Will the bioremediators require bioremediation, in other words? |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
August 03, 2009
02:03 PM Post #6902275
| http://alohaanalytics.blogspot.com/2009/06/paul-stamets-on-m...
This is a 17 minute presentation by the author of Mycelium Running. Thanks to GM for mentioning it. I will have to watch it several more times because it's so loaded with the eye opening wonders of these tiny creatures in their natural state. It's easy to see why the scientific community find them promising for solving many of our problems.
There's so much genetic engineering going on right now around the world that there's bound to be some unforeseen negatives. Our problems are so great that we will have to apply all the innovation we can to overcome the messes we've made and to try to maintain a reasonable standard of living. At least now more and more people are insisting on sustainability and ethical behavior.
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garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)
August 03, 2009
03:42 PM Post #6902689
| I was hoping that we could use naturally occuring microbes rather than genetically engineered ones. No scientist can match the talent of mother nature. |
