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Beginner Gardening Questions: Oleander under part shade - questions!

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Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 10, 2009
4:46 PM

Post #6930389

I have an ugly light pole in the middle of my front yard. Since I can't knock it down, I wanted to plant around it to make it less of an eyesore. This pole sits under the edge of a tree canopy, where I have to trim the branches back to shape around the light portion of the pole (the tree is not much taller than the pole).
The lawn beneath the pole gets full sun until about high noon, when the sun positions directly above the pole and enters the canopy. For the rest of the day, the spot gets filtered sun to no sun at all. Is it possible to grow oleander here? I found a nice variety of oleander - a pink salmon dwarf that won't get much taller than 6 feet - that I wanted to plant in a circle around the pole. I understand oleander is a full-sun plant that requires at least 8 hours of sun. Thanks in advance!
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

August 10, 2009
7:38 PM

Post #6931100

I inherited some at my old house that were in AM sun/PM shade and they didn't bloom nearly as well as the ones that were in full sun. But if you don't mind the blooms being a bit more sparse, the plants themselves did fine there.
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 11, 2009
1:34 PM

Post #6933995

Ecrane3 - Yeah I figured I would run into some lackluster blooming activity in the shade. I don't mine the blooms being sparse so long as I get at least some of them! I can't think of any other plant I would really like there and my wife really loves the oleander so I'm sold. As long as the plant itself would survive in part-shade, then that is my primary concern. The lack of bountiful blooms will be a sacrifice.
newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
3:56 PM

Post #6938512

I think I am growing that same plant in a pot. Just bought it this year and set it out later than I should have. It is only now really growing and looking nice but it is in some shade and it is not blooming well at all. The flowers are small and few. I intend to move it into full sun next spring. The sun here is intense and even with a good amount for a few hours my plant just isn't producing enough blooms to make it look good. Leaves are nice and deep green and the plant seems happy. I would try something else there.
CT
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 12, 2009
5:13 PM

Post #6938791

Newtonsthirdlaw - Thanks for the response. I'd consider other plants there as well. I want a shrub that I can shape around the pole (4 plants, 1 on each side) that will grow into each other. I love the blooms on the oleander and the foliage is attractive as well. I chose the petite salmon for its growth habit - 4-6' - and I can train it to the height I desire. Have you any other flowering shrubs in mind that would work here? I thought of hibiscus, but I have enough of those as it is around my property and was looking for something different. Thanks again!
newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
5:18 PM

Post #6938813

Hmm... I am pretty new to my zone 8 hot TX garden and do not grow many shrubs. I did go and take a look at the Orleander and given that it was planted late in the season and is just now beginning to grow maybe it's not that bad. See some pics and then decide, it is the same kind you were considering.

Thumbnail by newtonsthirdlaw
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newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
5:20 PM

Post #6938818

Pic 2

Thumbnail by newtonsthirdlaw
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newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
5:21 PM

Post #6938823

Pic 3, BTW how do you load more than one pic to a posting!

Thumbnail by newtonsthirdlaw
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Lily_love

Lily_love
Central, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 12, 2009
5:26 PM

Post #6938846

Last year was my first year to have enjoy an Oleander of my own. It was a braided specimen and I planted it in the front South facing where it would get most direct sun in my limited space garden. The Oleander survived the winter, but this year -- there is no evidence of blooms yet -- and summer is almost gone! I missed the summer long bloom of the plant as I remembered it last year! Lesson learned, Oleanders like Lilacs don't fare well in my zone.
newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
5:33 PM

Post #6938868

Here near Dallas TX they seem to do well. I first noticed some growing at the Credit Union I use. I was suprised as I always thought of them as tropicals growing in humid and always warm Florida. We get frost, and even a smattering of snow and the ones I have seen around the area seem to get through and look fine the next season. I was also suprised at how much drought they can take. I plan on planting more as soon as I make a bed in the hot, full sun front yard. I am afraid to plant them in the back as I have a young dog who likes to taste the plants!

Lily_love

Lily_love
Central, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 12, 2009
5:49 PM

Post #6938921

Newtons3rd...

Have you noticed some cultivars of the Oleanders are very fragrance as well? Indeed we need to be mindful of its toxicity. If only I garden in the Southern part of the State, I'd have had a better chance with blooms I'm sure.

BTW, I don't know how to post multiple pictures on to our gardening site. Although, I've seen people who have done so. Hopefully someone have the answer.

Happy gardening, over and out.
newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
6:09 PM

Post #6938970

I didn't know they had any real smell. What types have a nice fragrance? I am new to this area (3 years) and really don't know much about this particular plant. I will definately grow more if they have a nice smell. Thanks for the info. Gardening is always an experiment, that's what makes it so fascinating to me. New plants to try and new beds to make. I want to make a container bog garden and grow some pitcher plants. Any ideas on this?
CT
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 12, 2009
6:56 PM

Post #6939103

Thanks for the pics - those are what I want in my front yard (minus the containers). There is a cultivar that is hardy (maybe several) that survive in your winters. The one I'm looking at would not. This past February we had some light frost - well, "crunchy grass" - for the first time since I could remember down here in my area. We RARELY see anything below 40 degrees and if we do, it's not for very long.
Bog garden sounds cool. Pitcher plants are even cooler. I love carniverous plants!

Lily_love

Lily_love
Central, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 12, 2009
6:57 PM

Post #6939106

GM, I hope we're not hijacking your thread. Newston3rd... I happened on the white blooming Oleander when I shopped for my pink one, I've noticed the white cultivar's fragrance was more pronounce than the pink that I purchased. I don't know enough about different cultivar on these type of plants.

Bog planting, very interesting. I've some Lotus which does well in a tub, I'm trying a native pitcher plants -- for the second time. They're hardy here in my area, but leaving them out in a shallow pot during the winter, some how, I don't think it's a good idea ... I need to do more experiment on them. lol. They're rather pricey to renew them every year as annuals.

This message was edited Aug 12, 2009 1:58 PM
newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
7:07 PM

Post #6939135

I have emailed several CP experts and one is in Dallas. They have all told me the right species of carnivorous plants can grow outside. I am going to find an old white sink or something similar and set it partly in the ground to keep it cooler. Fill it with peat moss and some live spagnum on top and see what happens. I will send pics when I set it up and in the spring when I plant.
There are tall and dwarf oleanders growing here in zone 8 and they seem ok. Now I am wondering if the dwarf I bought at Lowes (don't laugh, I get lots of cheap plants there) will survive. Send pics of the light post garden.
CT
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

August 12, 2009
7:08 PM

Post #6939137

I've never noticed much fragrance with any of the oleanders I've grown--I think there are a couple cultivars out there that have some scent to them, but if you're planting something for fragrance I'd probably look for other types of plants.

And to newton's question about loading more than one picture...you can only upload one picture in each post. You can sort of get around this if you have photo editing software that will let you collage multiple photos together and turn them into one picture, then you could upload that collaged photo, but you can only upload one thing at a time.
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 12, 2009
7:09 PM

Post #6939142

Lily - No problem at all. I enjoy reading all of this stuff. If you have any suggestions for a zone 10 part shade (morning to noon full-sun) flowering shrub that I could plant around a light pole, I would appreciate all the help!

Lily_love

Lily_love
Central, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 12, 2009
7:20 PM

Post #6939168

Hmmmm, zone 10 gardening? Wait, wait, I'm packing my luggage and move there ... Just kidding.

1st thing will come to mind for morning sun, evening shade. These are root hardy in my zone even. Angel Trumpet, but then again they have toxic substance like that of Oleander incidentally.

Thumbnail by Lily_love
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newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
7:32 PM

Post #6939220

How about beauty berry, it has a more bushy growth habit but I love the color of the berries in the fall.
newtonsthirdlaw
Arlington, TX

August 12, 2009
7:40 PM

Post #6939243

Caesalpinia pulcherima - Pride of Barbados



Lovely yellow, red/orange, pink or yellow pyramidal clusters of flowers appear in the spring, summer and into fall. It has a fast growth rate and is a shrubby tree to about 10 feet. It can go deciduous during cold winters even here in Miami. It originates from the Caribbean region. It has medium salt tolerance but high drought tolerance. Zones 9-11

This looks like a good place to find zone 10 shrubs and plants:http: //www.zoneten.com/

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 12, 2009
10:07 PM

Post #6939715

Grantman, how do you feel about roses? There is an old bourbon rose that is thornless, blooms throughout the season, has raspberry pink blooms with a sweet fruity fragrance and does quite well in part shade/strong dappled light and gets 8 to 10 ft tall. Zephrine Drouhan is not fussy and is own root.
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 13, 2009
12:47 PM

Post #6941755

Wow thank you all for your valuable input!

Lily - A neighbor has those Angel Trumpets, and all I can hear from all of my other neighbors is how much they hate them. Personally, I don't mind them, but they do kind of look like they're always wilted (even though that is what the flowers are suppose to look like). I'd prefer something "woody" that I could more easily shape into a shrub.

newtonsthirdlaw - Wow what color! I like that plant, but unfortunately for the purpose I'm looking for, it would be too "leggy" and wouldn't conform to my shrub purposes. I may plant that somewhere else, though...
That Caesalpinia pulcherima has beautifully vibrant colors and interesting foliage. I'd be a little worried, however, planting that up against a light pole. It may get a bit too tall as well. It looks like a more of a standalone type shrub/tree that would prosper away from obstructions.

themoonhowl - I would definitely not discount good old roses! I've been struggling with a rose I keep in a pot and have always wanted to stick them in the ground and watch them flourish. I'm putting that one on the list. Does this rose climb like others? The last thing I need is a light pole covered in rose vines and FPL coming out to tear it down lol...

Keep them coming everyone. I really appreciate all of the input and I'm building a list as we speak! I just can't get the oleander out of my head though lol...

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 13, 2009
12:57 PM

Post #6941790

Grantman, Zephrine Drouhan only gets 8-10 ft tall. and has strong upright canes and NO THORNS, so it is really easy to handle. One of the wooden fan trellises would give it all the support necessary. It does not twine or twist around its' support so should not give FPL any cause for concern.
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 13, 2009
1:02 PM

Post #6941799

Hmm that is a good idea. I never even thought of building a small trellis around the pole. One support on each side and nail them together. I would most definitely need to anchor it due to hurricanes. Interesting idea. I'm kind of leaning away from the oleander idea now that I'm thinking about it. This is an area where I walk my dogs (I never let them loose in my front yard), so I would hate for one of them to get a hold of a leaf or bloom. I think in the lead at this point is the rose/trellis idea. Thanks for your thoughts, and if you think of anything else, please let me know! I'm planning on doing it all this weekend.

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 13, 2009
1:10 PM

Post #6941817

You are very welcome.

Lily_love

Lily_love
Central, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 13, 2009
1:13 PM

Post #6941829

A rose arbor yessssss! How about interplant some of these lovely blue sky vine for the autumn pallet of blue? Here I've red/white/blue on this arbor. Red of roses, white of Autumn Clematis (fixing to explode their tiny fragrant blooms soon) and Blue of the Thunbergia grandiflora. :-)

Keep in mind, there is pros/cons to SAC (Sweet Autumn Clematis), the pro. = it's vigorous and fragrant, the cons = it's VIGOROUS and invasive.

Where as the Thunbergia grandiflora is said to bloom all winter in a frost-free region. How is your winter there? If your answer is frost free, I'm moving to Florida -- soon. :-)

Thumbnail by Lily_love
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Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 13, 2009
1:23 PM

Post #6941867

Haha thanks for the ideas, Lily. Where I live, I remember only once in my lifetime that we had anything closely resembling frost, and it was simply frozen water on the grass after we broke a record low. Come to think of it, that was this past February! Other than that, we don't get snow or frost. Other parts of Florida do - North and West. I moved from living right on the ocean to living about 20 minutes from it, and it really made a difference! Our winters are marginally cooler than right on the coast, but it's still within driving distance. Haha I can't believe I'm using the term "winter" to describe the season in south Florida LOL!
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 17, 2009
1:07 PM

Post #6955970

I ended up planting the oleander - dwarf pink salmon: grows 3-6' in height with a 3' or so spread. I cut a large square-shaped section of sod from around the light pole and transplanted it to a spot next to my driveway where grass hasn't been growing well. Then I planted 4 oleander plants, 1 on each flat side of the pole (it's a rectangular, not circular, pole). I spaced them accordingly, and it looks great! Although the plant likes full sun, after speaking with a master gardener that happens to work at the Home Depot garden center where I bought the plants (they were beautiful, by the way - nursery quality), he assured me that the plants will thrive and bloom, just not as lush as it would in full sun. I noticed today that the plants get full sun from sunrise until around 1330ish, sometimes 1400. I could trim the branches back a bit to extend that further, but I think this should be ok. Once I find my digital camera, I'll take some pics! I mulched the square in with red mulch (I know, I know...) and it looks great! Thanks for all of your feedback. I'll keep these other plants in mind!

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 17, 2009
1:26 PM

Post #6956043

Grantman, it sounds like near full sun anyway. Full sun is considered 8+ hours. Sounds like your area is going to get at least 6-7 hours, so you should have plenty of little salmon blooms waving at FPL..GRIN Good on you.
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 17, 2009
1:42 PM

Post #6956129

Hahaha waving at FPL - I love it. Thanks for the feedback. The funny part is one of my neighbors works for my town's utilities department and he gave me a funny look as I was digging up sod from around the light pole lol...

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 17, 2009
1:47 PM

Post #6956156

I hope he is a good neighbor and not one of the "I'm gonna tell" types. grin...'sides, he's probably not the one that will have to service the lights anyway. Although, he may have thought you'd had enough and were digging up the post.Grin
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

August 17, 2009
1:55 PM

Post #6956182

That amt of sun ought to be fine for blooms--the ones I had that didn't bloom as well got about 4 hours of dappled sun in the mornings. 6 hrs of direct sun ought to give you decent blooms.
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 17, 2009
2:38 PM

Post #6956365

Haha I wish I could dig that thing up. Naw he works for the town, FPL manages the pole and they're the evil entities wanting to increase our base electricity rate when they're raking in billions in profits and not wanting to disclose their executive compensations...

ecrane - thanks. I figured they will be ok. Does halogen lamp post light count as sunlight? If so, they get it all night, too lol...
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 19, 2009
12:59 PM

Post #6964152

Update - I noticed some yellowing of some of the lower leaves on the oleander plants. Is this normal? I did a proper 10-10-10 Morganite fertilizer mix at the bottom of the holes and mixed it into the soil while planting them. I watered them each day since they're newly transplanted, but I don't think I overwatered them. Once I knew remnants of Anna were going to be coming through us, I didn't water them at all and let nature do it for me. I noticed other Oleander around the town with some yellow leaves on the lower part of the plants, so I was wondering if it was a seasonal thing.
Trackin - I squished a few orange caterpillars dwelling around them. They move in quickly! I did the thuricide trick, so hopefully they will leave them alone.

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 19, 2009
1:12 PM

Post #6964196

Sounds pretty normal, Grantman. Besides, a little leaf drop is fairly usual after transplanting/changing light etc. Just remember to put any leaves that drop in the trash, not your compost or burn pile...pesky poison thing...grin

Lily_love

Lily_love
Central, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 19, 2009
1:36 PM

Post #6964284

I'd like to share this tip; I avoid fertilizing newly transplanted plants. Since tender, sometimes broken roots cause fertilize-relate injury. I usually wait until new leaves emerge on my transplanting before I give them a weak solution of fert. Well composted vegetative matters from your compost bin is better to supplement your 'feeding' regimen at anytime during the growing season.

Yellowing of mature leaves signal signs of changes of environment, whether it's temp. (whether it's heat from sunlight or chemical burn) or drought or the other extreme which is too much water.

This message was edited Aug 19, 2009 8:37 AM
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 19, 2009
1:50 PM

Post #6964343

Moon/Rock Steady - Yeah I snatch those things up as they drop and trash them. It would be a shame if one of the neighborhood dogs that crap on my lawn and whose owners don't have the decency to clean it up would happen to eat one of the leaves - just kidding, I'm a dog owner myself and wouldn't wish that on any animal! Well, except for squirrels...
Lily - Thanks for the information. Had I known that, I wouldn't have amended the soil with any sort of fertilizer. I removed the sod, and in doing so, was left with a couple of inches of missing dirt, so I mixed in 50-50 planting soil and native soil from another area of the yard where I had some spare native dirt from previous planting. Then, after digging the holes, I used morganite 10-10-10 (which is quite neutral and does include trace elements) and mixed it properly with the soil. The temp is the same as where I bought the plants, which is just up the road, and it's been hot - mid to upper 90' - for weeks now. I'm going to back off watering every day, and just do it every other and/or let the rain handle it for me. I'll keep you posted!
Thanks again...

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 19, 2009
2:44 PM

Post #6964479

Know what ya mean about neighborhood dogs. It is bad enough to come upon one of their little "gifts" in the grass or flowerbeds, but the dogs in my neighborhood think my pond is for their bathing pleasure. Until I figure out how I am going to finish off the sides, I have had to lay lattice wood over the surface to keep them out of the water. Last year they trashed my water lilies and washed some of the koi out of the pond into the grass...talk about HOWL...and it wasn't at the moon...grin

By the way, Lynnie is Rock Steady, I am MoonRock...grin
Grantman31
West Palm Beach, FL

August 19, 2009
2:55 PM

Post #6964500

Haha sorry I thought you were Rock Steady. I like MoonRock. I have a neighbor that has two young boston terriers. Every late evening and even late at night he just lets the dogs out of his back door and they run all around the neighborhood. They've come close to getting hit by cars and they follow me when I'm walking my dogs, darting in-and-out trying to play while my dogs are trying to go potty. My bulldog pinned one of them to the ground and gave it a good lesson, but they don't learn! How could you be so lazy and just let your dogs out of your house and you don't even WATCH them. I could understand if you have a fenced-in yard or a huge property, but his fenceless and hedgeless 1/4 acre lot isn't sufficient enough to keep your dog running loose. Get off your arse and walk your dog lol...

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 19, 2009
3:12 PM

Post #6964559

Grantman, I have 3 dogs, a Springer Spaniel and 2 Beagles. We have a 40'x40' fenced area for them and a one acre lot, but they still get walked 4 or 5 times a week. They need the interaction and discipline walking on a leash gives them. Keeps them from going nutzoid if they get out on their own.

Lily_love

Lily_love
Central, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 19, 2009
3:19 PM

Post #6964572

Quoting: Keeps them from going nutzoid ...


LOL, I love that expression, may I borrow that line sometimes?

themoonhowl

themoonhowl
Prairieville, LA
(Zone 9a)

August 19, 2009
3:30 PM

Post #6964605

Please do, it was coined to describe a neighbor's Chihuahua who ran up and down the property-line any time she saw any of my cats in the yard...never crossed the line cuz the cats are all bigger than her, but would just have a fit and whine and roll around and bark like crazy...and would do it 20 times a day if she saw the cats that many times...my DHJim said it was almost robotic (android) so we started calling her Cissy Nut Zoid...now it is a generic term here for any silly frenzy, including MINE...grin

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