Name That Fuchsia! For that mystery fuchsia in your garden.

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

One of the reasons I have been SO looking forward to a fuchsia forum where we could all help each other with our discussions and photos, is that I go in search of old-fashioned upright hardy fuchsias in the older gardens I pass in my travels.
If I am allowed to take a cutting or two, and if that cutting grows, then occasionally I wind up with a beautiful bush with no identity.
Larry was one of those, but now I know his real name is Cardinal.
Abby Rose is another. She though, was a generic purchased at a hardware store with the simple label of, "Hardy Fuchsia." For now, she is named after my niece.
And sometimes customers in retail nurseries pull the tag out of plants and then put them back in the wrong pot.... I think we have all experienced the surprise of discovering that what we are growing bears no resemblance to what the tag says!
So I will start this thread with a mystery upright fuchsia which has a hand-written tag naming it
'Burgandy Beauty'
There is no recognized variety of fuchsia with this name that I have been able to find. And my favorite source for fuchsia variety information is FindThatFuchsia which has a list of over 10,000 recognized varieties. Here is the link, I hope we all help Rick out in his efforts there.

http://www.findthatfuchsia.info/

If anyone can help me confirm the identity of this fuchsia, please do!
And please post your mystery fuchsias here also ;-)

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

hummer_girl, I am hoping you will be able to help solve a mystery for me with all of the books you have been researching. Fuchsias are divided into 12 Sections.
Section Eufuchsia, is said to include boliviana, boliviana alba, tryphylla (Gartenmeister Bonstedt), denticulata, and the one I am concerned about - carymbiflora.
Wikepedia and FindThatFuchsia don't have a photo of carymbiflora. Here in the Plant Files, it is listed as synonymous with boliviana. But when I googled it, I got a website with an article about it, refering to it as a different and newly named species seperate from boliviana. I'd like to add it here as seperate from boliviana. Do the books say much about species and do they have anything to say about this conflict?
The plant I just purchased has a label which identifies it as Fuchsia carymbiflora......
I am excited because the fruit of this one is sold in south american fruit markets and is supposed to have a fig like flavor!

Port Orchard, WA(Zone 8a)

PC, I like the plant a lot, and thanks for posting the findthatfuchsia website. Jim

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

I use his website practically every single day! But who knows, maybe someday the fuchsia section of DavesGarden will rival his. I am at least hoping we can get all the ones without photos, represented!

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Here is another one. I didn't buy it, but I'd like to. The tag says "Alta" and it certainly looks like one that can get big and fast. I love the colors on this upright, but I cannot verify that an fuchsia called "Alta" exists. Does anyone have any idea what it's real name could be, or have your heard of this fuchsia somewhere?

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

And here is a closer shot.

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
(Linda)Gig Harbor, WA(Zone 8a)

I thought this was Army Nurse untill I looked it up?????

Thumbnail by Azorina
Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

See what I mean!? I hate that when that happens!!
Don't you think your "Army Nurse" looks allot like my "Burgandy Beauty?"
I've been in contact with the Northwest Fuchsia Society and they have agreed to try and help me identify a couple of my fuchsias. So I will let you all know what happens.
This winter, I hope to create a small database that will let us search via sepal and corolla colors and various other attributes.
Here is a photo of the one I call "Abby Rose."

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
Saint Louis, MO(Zone 6a)

P.C.: I just got around to reading this thread. I presently have 5 fuchsia books to look through, and will try to help with your carymbiflora dilemma. Will probably take me several days. Be patient.

Portland, OR(Zone 8a)

Hi All
I have been admiring this Fuchsia for several years now in a public garden. I have asked several people who tend to the garden and they don't know which Fuchsia it is. What has attracted me to this one is the size of it's blooms. It's hardy here in my zone.
Here are some photos taken today.

Thumbnail by GardenGuyKin
Portland, OR(Zone 8a)

Stem and Foliage

Thumbnail by GardenGuyKin
Portland, OR(Zone 8a)

Another view

Thumbnail by GardenGuyKin
Portland, OR(Zone 8a)

This might give you some reference to the size of the blooms.
They are quite large and bold looking! LOL
Gosh my arm looks pale!
:)

Thumbnail by GardenGuyKin
Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Hi hummer_girl,
The Northwest Fuchsia Society sent me the official list of nomenclature for fuchsia species written by Paul E. Berry, the authority on fuchsia species. Erick and Salli Dahl were certain that this list is the final word on the 12 Sections, which species belongs in each section and which species names are no long supposed to be used. I was very dissappointed but I agree with them that it is important to try and keep these things straight. Part of the nature of any science, especially one like botany, is that the facts are continueously being discovered and their connections re-arranged to fit new facts. Books can become outdated before they even hit print!

Fuchsia boliviana - Carriere (1876) - Origins: Mex. To S. Amer. (Peru, Bol., Arg.)

F. boliviana var. boliviana (replaces these below)

Fuchsia boliviana forma puberulenta Munz (1943)
Fuchsia boliviana var. typica Munz (1943)

F. boliviana var. luxurians - I.M. Johnst. (1925) (replaces these below)

Fuchsia corymbiflora alba Harrison (1849)
Fuchsia cuspidata Fawcett & Rendle (1926)

According to this, the red boliviana with the tag Fuchsia corymbiflora would actually be
F. boliviana var. boliviana or just F. boliviana
And what most people call Fuchsia boliviana alba should actually be:
F. boliviana var. luxurians or F. bolivina va. alba
(just reread their letter, they say luxurians and alba are one in the same)
The names which are not supposed to be used anymore are the ones farthest indented. You can't see it here, but on the list they sent me, those names are green. (And the indentation disappeared after posting this!)
I think it is going to be very difficult to get people to not use the name F. boliviana alba. ( Now I see that may not be necessary, just giving up corymbiflora)
My delima was that the only reference to corymbiflora was an alba, and mine is certainly not an alba.
I do have both boliviana's though. The red and the white ;-)


This message was edited Sep 12, 2009 5:21 PM

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

That's my Larry!!! I was looking for Jerusalem Artichokes last year and had to drive way out farther into the boonies than I already live, down a dirt road, over a wooden bridgen, and wander into six foot high weeds! Larry and his wife live in a little trailer surrounded by a handmade wooden deck bigger than the trailer, hidden in the tall weeds....
I saw this fuchsia and asked for some cuttings. I couldn't figure out what it was, so I called it Larry. Next to Magellanica, it is the strongest, fastest growing fuchsia I have seen in almost 30 years of growing fuchsias! And it can handle both extremes in cold and heat. I was buying new varieties this summer and one of them is named Cardinal. Well, it didn't take me long to see that it was Larry and Larry was Cardinal!!

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
Portland, OR(Zone 8a)

Well Now...How Cool is that!!
Love your little Larry story too.
You have quite the beautiful specimen of 'Cardinal'
Thanks so much PedricksC!

I must agree that it handles the heat well and this years Heat wave proved it.
Gosh, now I can sleep after several years of wondering what this Fuchsia is... LOL

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Ahhh, to be honest with you, I still think of him as Larry! I am glad to know his real name, but Larry was cooler! I am going to name the next mystery fuchsia after myself, but only if it is a blue one ;-)
I'll sleep better when I figure out what Burgandy Beauty's real name is ;-D

Saint Louis, MO(Zone 6a)

P.C.: I put all this together before I came back to this thread and saw your info from the NWFS, so I’m not going to edit. Maybe you’ll find something in the following that will help.

The following info taken from "Fuchsias; The Complete Guide by Edwin Goulding, copyright 2002.
The species Fuchsia corymbiflora is in Section Fuchsia. Within Section Fuchsia, there are 13 named groups + 1 named Anomalous species group. F. corymbiflora is 1 of 4 species listed in the F. boliviana group (see below).

F. corymbiflora comes from Peru and was discovered in 1802 by Ruiz and Pavon. (F. boliviana comes from Bolivia and was not discovered until 1876 by Carriere)

Quoting:
F. corymbiflora forms erect or scandent shrubs up to 4 metres tall. Young growth is hairy. Leaves are opposite or occasionally ternate. Flowers are usually produced in terminal, pendant racemes. The funnelform tubes reach 6.5 cm long and .08 cm at their widest. Sepals are 1.5 cm long. Both are bright pink or scarlet. Petals are 1.7 cm in length and rather darker in colour. This species has only recently come back into cultivation and is most easily differentiated from F. boliviana and its variants by the plum-like shape of its seed pods.
Description: Berry, P. (1982), pp. 170-71
Illustration: Munz, P.A. (1970), p 119, fig 38.


From the Bibliography:
Quoting:
BERRY, P.E., 'The Systematics and Evolution of Fuchsia Section Fuchsia', in Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden,
Vol.69, 1982, pp 1-198, ISSN 0026-6493-82-0001-0198.
MUNZ, P.A., A Revision of the Genus Fuchsia (Onagraceae), Johnson Reprint Corporation, New York, U.S.A., Reprinted 1970, ISBN 0-85409-393-1


The Goulding book was published in 2002.
He states
Quoting:
Fuchsias in this section were originally placed in the section Eufuchsia by Phillip A. Munz (1970). His work, "A Revision of the Genus Fuchsia (Onagraceae)", has been referred to in compiling this section. Paul Berry (1982) has reorganized them into fourteen groups that have broadly similar features.

The groups are:
F. decussata (4 species)
F. loxensis (5 species)
F. nigricans (6 species)
F. macrophylla (4 species)
F. putumayensis (5 species)
F. petiolaris (7 species)
F. venusta (6 species)
F. denticulata (6 species)
F. simplicicaulis (4 species)
F. sessilifolia (2 species)
F. tincta (3 species)
F. boliviana (4 species; F. boliviana, F. corymbiflora, F. mathewsii, F. wurdackii)
F. dependens (6 species)
+ the 14th group called: Anomalous species group (3 species; F. pringsheimii, F. triphylla, F. verrucosa)


The following info taken from "Fuchsias; A practical guide to cultivating fuchsias, with over 450 beautiful photographs and illustrations" by John Nicholass, copyright 2008.
F. corymbiflora was first listed in the records of Kew Gardens in 1840.
This author lists Section Fuchsia (Eufuchsia) as including 13 subgroups:
F. boliviana
F. decussata
F. denticulata
F. loxensis
F. macrophylla
F. pallescens
F. vulcanica
F. abrupta
F. sessilifolia
F. tincta
F. venusta
F. triphylla
The author does not tell us how many species are found within his subgroups or their names.

The Nicholass book also has this reference: F. boliviana var. alba can be synonymous with F. corymbiflora alba.

In the 5 fuchsia books I have, these were the only references I could find for F. corymbiflora, and only the 1 reference to the variants being synonymous.

These books were published 6 years apart. Are the fuchsia group discrepancies due to renaming during that time, or 1 persons interpretation being different than anothers? When comparing the value of information provided in each book, I found the Goulding book to be better, but I think a really good fuchsia reference library needs to include both books, because the Nicholass book covers all aspects of fuchsia cultivation in a way that is targeted to a more visual audience, one who skips the tech-speak for the color pics and capsulated how-to‘s.

When I googled Fuchsia corymbiflora I found a lot of web pages. Some good, some not. Some accurate, some not. Some questionable.

Here's some web links you might find useful:

Paxton's Magazine of Botany, and Register of Flowering Plants
8th Volume
1841
http://books.google.com/books?id=vF8CAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=fuchsia+corymbiflora&source=bl&ots=82Gm0F_tFV&sig=fxnCfWryqIeK8j_ZsVPxfrIHaio&hl=en&ei=RhStSsjJKpK2Nt687fIN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=fuchsia%20corymbiflora&f=false

Tropicos
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/23200059

National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution
http://botany.si.edu/Onagraceae/result.cfm?myFrom=tree&genus=Fuchsia
http://botany.si.edu/Onagraceae/speciesdescr.cfm?myID=3834

http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Vine%20Fuchsia.html

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Hi hummer_girl, my conflict began because the plant I purchased with the label F. coymbiflora, is not an alba.
I am so glad you posted the information here above, it is going to be useful for allot of people. We should have a thread about the history and nomenclature of fuchsias!

This is the heading to the list sent to me by the Western Fuchisa Species Society, a subgroup of the Northwest Fuchsia Society. These people have been studying fuchsias for many years and I am assuming that the societies are more up to date on what is coming out of the universities, than most people would be.
I've just been growing them ;-) I never considered diving into various species. But they are certainly becoming a big interest right now!

SECTIONS AND SPECIES OF FUCHSIA
by Paul E. Berry
October 2005; updated 2007

Dr. Paul Berry- Professor in the Dept. of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology, Taxonomist of Genus Fuchsia, U of Michigan.

12 sections; 107 recognized species; 119 taxa (counting recognized subspecies., botanical varieties… 3 more to be added once published.)

As you can see, the list I was sent is more recent. It is not unusual for botanists to decide that what was once considered two species, is actually one. Or that one should be spit into two. Plants can take on dramatically different forms just because of the influence of the enviroment they are in.
The section of this list regarding boliviana is in a post above.
According to it, corymbiflora should not be use anymore.

Saint Louis, MO(Zone 6a)

Fuchsais are much more complicated than I ever imagined! The germ of an idea, whether or not I could grow a hardy fuchsia in my garden, is what started me down the fuchsia forum path. I never thought a month later I would be doing research on sections, groups, subgroups... I need a nap.

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Me too! I just love fuchsias and have been growing them for decades. I never imagined I'd be learning about how heat hardy or how cold hardy this or that one could be. I am getting an education in fuchsias too!

(Linda)Gig Harbor, WA(Zone 8a)

I've loved hardy fuchsia for years..........but thanks to DG my passion for them has been rekindled. Of course this time of year is inspiring as well not to mention all the varieties that have become available.

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Me too! I first fell in love with them when I was working for a big nursery in the 1980's. They would leave what hadn't sold, out in the open all winter long. The hanging baskets would look awful by early spring, but the hardy upright would already be blooming!

Kirkland, WA(Zone 7b)

Linda - since you're in my area, please tell how you overwinter the more tender varieties. Or do you have a GH?

(Linda)Gig Harbor, WA(Zone 8a)

Katye Unfortunately I do not have a GH. It is kind of a sink or swim thing going on here. I'm definately Zone 8a but I have a small area next to my house that is a little micro 8b or 9. Since I'm severly afflicted by zone denial I tend to take chances. Often I will use Gunnera leaves to mulch the more "iffy" plants. I have had great success with hardy fuchsias some of the more tender ones seem to benefit from any overhead protection like evergreen trees and such.... I have a variety called "display" I've had for 8 or 9 years that I may loose because I just found out it is only hardy to Zone 9 (chuckle)-thanks for asking.

Northeast, WA(Zone 5a)

Might have missed it if someone said it, but if not, how about "Border Queen"?? Going thru Fuchsia Lady's catalog. Have you looked at hers? She is in Covington, Washington, outside of Seattle.

Fuchsia Lady.com

Jeanette

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Jeanette, the
http://www.nwfuchsiasociety.com/
Has a great list of both winter and heat hardy fuchsias. I don't actually live in the zone associated with my zip code. My zip code covers a large area and I am on the outskirts of it. It snows here sometimes and it freezes often enough to make my fruit trees produce well. Something for instance, cherries must have.
Like Azorina, I take chances. Things most people would bring indoors, I leave outside to sink or swim. And like Azorina, I use the leaves from all of the decidous fruit trees to pile up around all the fuchsias as high as I can. Sometimes I purchase a bale or two of alfalfa to add to that.
Anyway, they have Border Queen on their winter hardy list! But check them out, as they have varieties rated hardier than this one.

(Sharon)SouthPrairie, WA(Zone 7a)

This is a current picture of one of my "hardy" fuschias. Has been in the ground for at least three years. Is about 24 inches tall. PC thought it might be Charlie Girl?

Thumbnail by PNWMountainGirl
(Sharon)SouthPrairie, WA(Zone 7a)

A closer look.......

Thumbnail by PNWMountainGirl
Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

I can't say for certain, there are so many with such slight variations. But yes, it certainly looks like Charlie Girl to me ;-)
Here she is after our recent heat wave that burned a few of the others around her.

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Okay, you made me go outside and look. Because the partially open blossoms on yours show a bluer corolla and your sepals appear darker. But remember, mine is in the full sun, which causes some differences in colors. It can even affect how large the flowers get for a while when it has been hot for a long time.
Let me know if you find another that looks closer. I don't have Army Nurse. What do you think? Could yours be Army Nurse?

(Sharon)SouthPrairie, WA(Zone 7a)

I plead stupidity, but I don't know what you call the little hangy down things. At any rate yours are definitely different from the ones on mine. I have only red tips.

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

I confess, I think of the top part (sepals) as the dress, and the "hangy down things" (corolla) as the skirt ;-)
You are right, your sepals are redder and I think the new corollas before they fully open, are bluer than Charlie Girl. My other thought was Winston Churchill.
As I search for other varieties, I will keep yours in mind and see if we can't come up with a match!

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

I have been working on a searchable list for fuchsias. One that combines information from a variety of souces and will allow fuchsia enthusiasts to search for a combination of criteria. Since I only collect upright fuchsias, my little database is only going to include those and some which can go either way.
The Northwest Fuchsia Society has a wonderful site for cold hardy fuchsias and great photos! They even have the heights cold hardy upright fuchsias can expect to reach in cold climates. But not in warmer ones. And I have found that my uprights get at least 1-2 feet taller. They also have a heat hardy list, but with no photos and no heights....
FindThatFuchsia has a list of over 11,000 known varieties!!!! And many photos. Plus he has the hybridizer and the year they were hybridized. But no heights and/or hardiness data in the main list. And no way to search or filter the list. Even so, it is a stunning job he has accomplished and I hope more people support his efforts.
So, my database will allow you to ask for instance, all upright fuchsias with semi-double flowers, 2-3 feet tall, with pink sepals and violet corollas. Then it will be up to you to try and find photos to match the names, ha, ha! But at least you will have a list of names to use in your search here in the Plant Files ;-)
Right now, it is an Excel file with filters. And it has over 800 entries from A to Z. As soon as I at least have the first few letters of the alphabet as complete as I can, I will create a new website just for it. Just info, nothing more.
I know a few people are waiting on this! So this is just a little update. I'll have more time to devote to it soon.

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Okay, here is another one I need to figure out the name of! It can't possibly be what it's tag says it is. That one is supposed to be white and "wine" colored. Hmmmm, this looks blue to me ;-D No, it isn't Quasar, I have a large Quasar and it is different. For one thing, these blossoms are nowhere near the size of Quasar blossoms.
So if anyone has any ideas, let me know.

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
Northeast, WA(Zone 5a)

Those blossoms look pretty darned big to me, sure it isn't Quasar?? I have had Quasar, and I have had another that it could be, but I can't think of the name right now. Got it from the Fuchsia Lady in Covington, WA. Think she might even have lists sorted by color? Can't remember.

Jeanette

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Thanks, I have been over and over her catalog, the Northwest Fuchsia Society site, the Monniers site, and a few others. It isn't there. I have a large Quasar in a 15 gallon container. These are only about half the size of a Quasar blossom. And a bit of a different blue.
I think I am going to have to through the FindThatFuchsia site, page by page!
Here is my Quasar.

Thumbnail by PedricksCorner
Northeast, WA(Zone 5a)

That is beautiful. I really like your set up. These all uprights? Do you have some kind of roof on the framework? How big is the area where you have them? Very nice.

Jeanette

Freedom, CA(Zone 9b)

Thank-you! Yes, my entire collection is all uprights. No roof, they are all out in the full sun. Only the ones in the front yard get late afternoon shade from the trees. The full sun helps keep them nice and compact, plus it keeps them full of blooms.
The majority of my collection is in 15 gallon containers like this one, due to problems with gophers. In fact, I just lost my original White Wonder to gophers. Fortunately, I have two others. At least the snails don't like them ;-D
I have 125 varieties, ha, ha, I will have to measure how much space they are taking up!
Hmm, maybe not, as I am about to add to that number.....I am not sure I want to know. Especially since I need to get my winter veggies into the ground.

Northeast, WA(Zone 5a)

Do you have any kind of mister on them? Fuchsias do really good in the Seattle area. I moved over to the East side of Washington state which is hotter, colder, and hardly any humidity except when it rains. So they don't do so good here.

What kind of watering system do you have?

Jeanette

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