| Author | Content |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
05:23 PM Post #7183225
| Oh my goodness he is really on the move now ..."get outa the way!"
I am almost scared!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
05:34 PM Post #7183246
| As you can see he is huge! ...he was a huge seedling from the beginning ...in that picture you can see the leaf proportion to the plants next to him ...note the leaves are hardly damaged even though the other plants are pretty torn up from the dreadful winds/hail etc.
If I never have any thing else come from my big brug adventure, this one plant has been worth it.
Looking on in awe is the other as yet unamed bloom to the left.
Now an attractive shade of ??? (had a run in with a large torn leaf) still lovely.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
05:44 PM Post #7183272
| That's a six foot fence hehind the angels ...that gives you some idea of proportion.
I hope you love him too ...I am in awe! can't wait to see him again.
I have to go do some work out there but I just had to show you ...that's how it is with Brugmansias ...once the weather kicks in ...it's whoosh! and stand back.
Those big torn leaves are puny looking next to the big fella ...
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
06:00 PM Post #7183318
| He bloomed the first time in a big flush ...high temps! and still looked wonderful anyway!
He might be a darker shade of yellow if he blooms in Spring or Autumn, perhaps even orange, I don't know ...it's exciting to wait and see.
I would love to see pictures of his leaves in your gardens to compare.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
06:10 PM Post #7183358
| I am growing him out without shade clothe or much shelter and these angels are getting almost full northern sunshine and lots of mountain winds (both hot and cold) I want to grow them hard because we need plants that can stand up to that. I will trial some in more sheltered areas but so far ...I did not lose any to the Winter and in fact had most of my seedlings bloom in winter and I think that was because of the all day winter sun. Try growing your best angels in a couple of situations. Take cuttings from you favourites and place them in different micro climate areas of your garden. The ones in more sheltered areas here are very slow to bloom because of the shade and coolness but may put out a wonderful summer display while the more exposed ones sulk ...
I just love them.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
06:23 PM Post #7183406
| ooops we came from here!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1046937/
Now I really must go do some work out there enjoy the day everyone  |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 18, 2009
06:37 PM Post #7183464
| Chrissy, I think you've got the subspecies of brugmansia known as triffidis. It's when they reach out and grab you as you walk past that you really have to start worrying ... |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
06:44 PM Post #7183496
| What was that! Feed Meeee ! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
06:55 PM Post #7183543
| Ummm what will happen when I start to feed these plants for the summer growth ...ha ha ha so far it's only been minute quantities of chook poo pellets and a bit of manure ...one dose of very dilute "recipe" from jean and seasol because of the cold.
It boggles my mind what may happen when I get out the big guns ...even more scary, what will FFA do when he is let loose in the garden? Frosty Pink went nuts and grew up to roof level in one season.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 18, 2009
07:05 PM Post #7183579
| Can't wait for my FFA cutting to take hold and power ahead!
Chrissy, you might have to get yourself some chickens, maybe a sheep and cow as well, to feed your brug brood :-) |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 18, 2009
07:11 PM Post #7183608
| They are wonderful Chrissy! Your FFA here has leaves 600mm long, almost as tall as the plant. It is very healthy. I am waiting for flower buds to develop.
Also, your USA cross is now in a 60L pot and has buds! :))) Will keep you posted. Thank you once again for your generosity Chrissy.
'Clementine is looking a bit wonky. Lot's of young blooms, but very pale and not opening well. Good soil etc, so I must investigate further. It is surrounded by Heartsease (Viola tricolour), these are rampant, so I must pull them away and explore.
Just back from checking out the blooms at one of our facilities nearby. I knew over the weekend they would be out. I planted numerous cuttings, none of which were tagged. So have had to wait a year to see what is what. Something very curious has happened. What I believed was OSA from Bronte House here in Sydney, is different in colour and leaf form to a plant that was growing on-site at the same location. OSA (Bronte House) is that plant I had growing years back as a standard. I will check out these two on Wednesday, as I will be back to Bowden Brae then. I have thought for some time that there were a few OSA, a bit like the many 'Frosty Pink' plants (Colin et al). Alistair was going to run a trial at MM on the Old Apricots. I have not heard how that has gone. What is confirmed however, is that OSA from Bronte House, out blooms one other OSA that I am familiar with.
Regards Wayne
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MyaC
Magnetic Island
Australia
(Zone 11)
October 18, 2009
08:59 PM Post #7184106
| Firefighter ROCKS
Even the possums are too scared to eat it!!!!!!! |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 18, 2009
09:12 PM Post #7184154
| Hi all! back from Ecuador...
It looks great Chrissy. Buds on my FFA too :)
Wayne I'm afraid this year confirms that 'Clementine' produces a flush of deformed flowers in spring... I think this is caused when buds are set and start to develop in cool winters. It did it to me last year and now I have the same thing as you are describing. The next lot should be fine... Hopefully anyone up north with this cv won't see that happen at all!
I find you can "feel up" the buds quite early on and they are kind of lumpy if they are going to produce deformed flowers, so they can be pulled off!! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
09:37 PM Post #7184261
| hi Alistair ...yes that was my experience too but it only effected the blooms in awful conditions ...she is a lovely and long lasting when mother nature is a bit friendlier. Clementine has tendrils like little flames dancing around the skirt,I like the fragrance too,different to any I have before.
I found some "distressed blooms" on some of the normally great ones in the cooler areas of the garden. Let me tell you they have had a lot to be distressed about this winter.
I found some strange buds on Butter Bomb a little while ago ...I am not used to problems with him ...I love him to bits ...guess what it was? I opened blooms that looked as though they were tied up at the tips of the tubes, no tendrils or flounces, just like a a drawstring had been tightened around the opening ...I opened them up and found a spider in each ...cheeky beggers! I know you have probably seen it all before but it was a surprise for me.
How are you? I hope all is well for you and you are glad to be back ...as you can see a lot has been going on. Lots of Brug loving around the place.
Remember how I sought to breed a special white? ...Can't believe the blooms have all (except one) been coloured, I thought most were supposed to be white,not that I am complaining ...wow what a journey it must have been for you as a pioneer of the wonderful world of brugs.
We await the book from the Mastergrower and breeder of brugmansias here in Australia ...any idea when it may be available to we collecters?
I hope it may be in my christmas stocking this year (hubby is going to buy me your book )
A big warm welcome home! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 18, 2009
09:53 PM Post #7184330
| I forgot to say I don't have buds on my Fire Fighter Angel, yet this growth is from the bit left in the ground after I cut it up to trial... I forgot to save a bit of "flowering wood" for myself ...I did save some of the actual Y on a short bit of trunk and promptly forgot to pot it on once it rooted (I had so many cuttings and seedlings on the go at the time) I only found it again as I was starting to pot out stuff from the verandah(winter) boarders ...it had filled the little plastic cup full of roots and took off as soon as I planted it but it won't beat any out there ...yours and wayne's and probably ann's will be in bloom before mine.
I must take a moment here to remind everyone that a smaller above Y cutting won't give you a big flush of course and sometimes the bloom is a bit smaller, the trunk cuttings will give you a better quantity of blooms when it flowers . The above Y cuttings will throw up a straight shoot that will give you a flush when it matures.
This message was edited Oct 19, 2009 3:01 PM |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 18, 2009
10:30 PM Post #7184482
| Thanks Alistair. Thought I killed the flowers of 'Clementine' with kindness.
'Sea Nymph' is frolicking...
Not a bloom yet, setting bud now.
As for that "Bucket woman" :)
Your 'Hyacinth Bouquet' is going well. No sign of bloom. A healthy plant.
Regards Wayne |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 19, 2009
01:22 AM Post #7185000
| Yes, same here that "Bucket " ummm Hyacinth Bouquet angel looks healthy ...and I too will look forward to the blooms.
Looking forward to your pictures of Sea Nymph wayne ... and more Coral Reef shots. Isn't it wonderful to have seedlings to look at? Lots more to come now the weather is finally getting better ...a whole day without wind today ...finally.
Hmmm ...about the Old Sydney Apricot ...I recall somewhere earlier that Alistair mentioned that all of his OSA crosses turned out the same as the OSA(guess that would mean almost the same ) and there may be a few scattered around the place. You have some of mine don't you? if not please let me know ...so we can compare. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 19, 2009
04:54 PM Post #7187360
| Seed Bank ***reminder
*****SEED BANK*****
Seeds checked and sorted ...
10 seeds per pkt. limiting 1pkt per type with exception of contributers.
1)Pink Panther x noid (aurea) = "Giant "x Aurea noid.
by **wayne**
2) Aztec Gold x noid (large pod) **cestrum**
3)Equador Pink x noid **cestrum**
4)Alphonse Mucha x Glass House Angel (aurea noid)**chrissy**
5)Alphonse Mucha x Musketeer**chrissy**
6)Aztec Gold x noid (large pod) **cestrum**
7)Datura Metel triple yellow. **wayne **
8) Equador Pink x noid **cestrum**
9)white versicolor x noid (maybe golden butter) x Apricot versicolor
**cestrum**
10) Apricot versicolor x noid **cestrum**
11) Aztec Gold x noid **cestrum**
12) sauveolens x noid **cestrum**
The above pkts were listed and tested as they arrived, any not listed are being tested for germination because they may have been borderline. You may find an odd empty cork but the ones I tested were fine.
There are more seeds to be checked and they will go onto the list as well as future ripened pods. they will be available as they are processed
Will be adding more to the list on Friday ...
Thanks everyone ...
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 19, 2009
05:00 PM Post #7187377
| Sorry about the big letters it was supposed to be only the headline I am not brilliant at the puter thingy
...for anyone just lurking and beginners ...don't be shy,I will choose the hardy crosses for you if you like.
Another big thankyou for those who sent in seeds.
Well it looks like a nice day out there so I am off to see what needs some doing. |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 20, 2009
03:15 PM Post #7190497
| Chrissy, your 'Fire Fighter Angel'. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 20, 2009
03:18 PM Post #7190500
| 2 x seelings of 'Butter Bomb' x 'Glasshouse Angel' (Chrissy) 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 20, 2009
05:08 PM Post #7190780
| I knew those seeds would pop for you wayne ...it just takes a bit warmer conditions ...it's all happening here too.
It was soooo hot here yesterday after a cool start ...but the plants survived ...a good test because they copped the sun almost all day (no drooping in this one at the rear) The ones in the front opened this morning.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 20, 2009
05:13 PM Post #7190791
| This is opening right now ...one of the tendrils looks a bit odd ...I will have to watch it and see what happens. I can see yellow and peach in it so far, so I hope it will be ok. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 20, 2009
05:18 PM Post #7190802
| I think considering all the ups and downs of the temps and all the damages from the wind it is all going well and I am very pleased with everything ...last year during winter I was worried all the time but this year I have found that it was much easier than I had supposed. I think winter sun was the key. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 20, 2009
05:23 PM Post #7190816
| Must be off to do some work before it gets too warm ...mmmm you should smell the air here ...wonderful! 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:00 AM Post #7192391
| Chrissy, I wrote on some packets of brug seeds that their viability was uncertain. I think my Dr Seuss X seeds was one of them. Have a look at the pic--it's a cross-section of Dr Seuss X seeds taken from the various pods that I sent you. So they are viable--not every seed and possibly not even every seedpod, but there's definitely life there. BTW, you'll receive a satchel of goodies tomorrow including the last batch of my brug seeds. One of them didn't have time to dry out--you'll see what I mean tomorrow :-) 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:33 AM Post #7192447
|
We really have experienced some pretty dramatic weather conditions in the Sydney Region over the last month or so. Yesterday and today very hot, winds earlier, the dust storm, chills and some heavy spills of rain. All I guess go towards the unexpected behaviour of our new cultivars.
I mentioned to Chrissy yesterday how my new #9 took a terrible dip in the day's heat. Most telling, as it is in full flush, we counted over 30 blooms. I soaked the soil yesterday evening and this morning repeated. The withered blooms reopened with scorched "hems" :( This afternoon I am home to discover the blooms in wilt once more. Quite disappointing. We will monitor this plant over the next year or two as it is in the ground having formed a handsome standard. I am hoping that it is a recurrent bloomer, if not the compost bin will receive a top up.
I take heart however in watching today the good old apricot and even the aurea cvs take a dive. As for the old double white...
Think it would need a blow torch taken to it to go into wilt! :)
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:35 AM Post #7192450
| Another pathetic pic... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:44 AM Post #7192466
| Almost all of the last lot were very viable ...seed looks good. Some were a bit iffy in the beginning Some empty ...some collapsed, I have only packed the seeds that were looking great for the seed bank ...but I have also trialed some iffy ones and most have come up ...great job! I have hundreds of pkts ...it's wonderful.
I think your versicolor and aureas crosses should be fantastic!
My versicolor x's are almost ripe too, I harvested Frosty Pink x 's today and finally the first arborea pod is going a bit yellow ...that first one is yours ...the whole pod! It's very very hot today I think it might drop.
Thanks very much. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:46 AM Post #7192471
| Awe wayne ...the poor things, are they in afternoon sun?and do you have dishes of water under them. |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:46 AM Post #7192472
| On a brighter note. Here is Alistair's 'Clementine'. This pic was taken yesterday. Doing fine today, just a tad wilted. Lovely blooms. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:48 AM Post #7192474
| A close up... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:53 AM Post #7192483
| Sorry I missed that they were in the ground ...you know these poor things have suffered a lot in the awful conditions ...I have new blooms on many A M, Z ,M and White Suavolens that are browned skirted, it isn't just the big heat ...it's the coming out of very cold conditions (night temps) and straight into high heat.
Never mind I am sure the flushes will start and when the weather is more stable it will be ok. |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:55 AM Post #7192489
| We mentioned the "deformed' blooms the other day. Again, thanks for the explaination Alistair. I will sort that out in future years. The thought however of picking off the buds on YOUR 'Clementine' just was not a thought! 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
12:59 AM Post #7192497
| Wow see the difference twixt being baked and not being baked ...nothing like my colour a few days ago ... 
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WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
01:02 AM Post #7192510
| Thanks Chrissy, always fun to swap notes. Our "party line" had a "cross connection"! Thanks for your thoughts and observations. We need to monitor and give feed back as much as possible. Stop laughing Mya! Old "nursing practice" I know! :))
BTW... ... ...
"Were back!":))))
Iochroma!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 21, 2009
01:03 AM Post #7192513
| Not really fair to judge the brugs in these extremes of weather ... poor things don't know if it's winter or spring or summer or what--and they're not really established, either. Bewildered brugs, that's what they are LOL
Oh, looks like I might be growing a forest of B. arborea :-) |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
01:08 AM Post #7192524
| Yes Cestrum, must agree! Thanks. Look at that 'Clementine' of Chrissy's. Beautiful! Lovely orange. Mine in a garden bed look like they need "transfusions"!!! :(
I must check the soil.
However, as you can see, the other plants in the bed are healthy.
Oh boy, as you say "Bewildered brugs"! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
01:17 AM Post #7192538
| It's not just the Angels! ...and how would we look if we spent the day in a fan forced oven? I don't like the big heat at all.
Oh just look at your Iochroma ...Beautiful!
Jean was kind enough to give me a couple in a trade and from what I have read the seedling grown ones take two years to bloom but then they said the same of brugmansias too so perhaps it won't take two years. The two plants are different (the leaves) so hopefully we may have something different. Anxious to try breeding them too although it seems as difficult as breeding unicorns!
about the arboreas you need to sprout them in warm shade and then let them grow under something in Summer, a tree that drops it's leaves in winter would be ideal because winter sun has them setting pods and blooming. (My experience so far anyway). |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 21, 2009
01:19 AM Post #7192541
| Thanks, Chrissy; I've had the east-facing spot by my bedroom window long picked out for an arborea :-) |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
01:21 AM Post #7192546
| wayne it isn't the soil, it's the temperature ...extreme heat or cold causes the paler bloom ... they like what we like ...warmish but not hot days and cooler but not cold at night.
Glasshouse Angel is pale as can be at the moment. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
01:24 AM Post #7192549
| cestrum ...Perfect!
wayne another shot taken a few weeks ago during a short mild spell in Winter.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:03 AM Post #7192584
| We have an arborea pod on the ground! ...posting tomorrow for you cestrum .
congratulations you will now have your arborea forest. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:11 AM Post #7192590
| Sounds great! ... but maybe better holding off until Monday, so it doesn't get held up in the PO over the weekend? |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:19 AM Post #7192592
| I couldn't resist having a little peek ...yahoo the seeds look well packed and just like mine did ...ummm not sure, never sent a pod before ...whatever you say just let me know before 3 tomorrow ...wow our first arborea pod ...that's exciting, if you just wash them and peel (or not peel if you prefer* I peeled mine ...quite easy *) ...you will have more than you can use so there are extras to swap or sell ...you would not be polluting any brugs because this is a species and self pollinating.
Anyway let me know what you want me to do. Do you want to see your babies ? I will take a picture in a while gotta cook dinner now |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:28 AM Post #7192596
| I'll be happy to see them when they arrive, Chrissy ... post on Monday, I think ... I don't need a huge amount, really only enough seed to be sure of getting one plant to flowering stage. Maybe you could split up the pod and send me, oh, say 5 seeds? (A bit greedy for one plant, I know, but after the fiasco of the locally bought arborea seeds that did not germinate--not a single one--I'm a bit paranoid!) Seems a shame to send me a whole pod, and I'm sure there are other people eagerly awaiting some of these little beauties :-) |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:29 AM Post #7192598
| The second pod gets to share half to jean and half to judy ...ann you too with further pods if you want, but I don't know if they do tropical so let me know, if so, then you and mya will get some as they ripen. We have a few pods coming on so that's great. wayne I know you are pushed for room but you really should have one of these plants I will grow you a seedling if you like or you can have some seeds. They are soo sweet and fresh 4711 fragrance. anyone who is nervous about growing it out I will grow a seedling for you. these ones will bloom all through winter in winter sun. They are like cute little white stars. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:35 AM Post #7192600
| OK here is what we will do ...I will send you 12 ...just like a seed bank withdrawal and then I will plant say ten just in (I will dry them out until then and post Monday) case you lose them ... and that way you will have back up. I will send the others to people wanting them if you sure you don't mind. I will count the seeds and show pictures later tonight ...anyone wanting them please let me know. If you are too pushed to growone out or nervous then I willgrow a seedling of one out for you ...these come true to the parent unlike other brugmansias. |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:39 AM Post #7192602
|
>wayne it isn't the soil, it's the temperature ...extreme heat or cold causes the paler bloom ... they like what we like ...warmish but not hot days and cooler but not cold at night<
Yes Chrissy, I know. Just love "living in denial"...
Or the opposite... ... ...
"I must have done something wrong!" :)))
We will see what happens. Meanwhile loads of trials yet!
Three more daggy blooms from 'Bucks Fizz' x seedlings...
Will photo tomorrow.
Great times ahead.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 21, 2009
02:46 AM Post #7192605
| That's very generous, Chrissy! My fellow arborea enthusiasts and myself will be sowing in earnest next week :-) |
MyaC
Magnetic Island
Australia
(Zone 11)
October 21, 2009
05:09 AM Post #7192655
| Wayne, drop dead gorgeous garden scene in Post #7192602...
Clemetine is gorgeous...
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:31 AM Post #7192703
| Ok then that is what we will do ...
wayne how lovely ...and lavender can take this heat so well ...so soothing (the fragrance).
ok, now here we are with the arborea pod, couldn't resist a peak!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:32 AM Post #7192704
| Next ...looks just lovely all those seeds in an Easter Egg shape ...the pod being the size of a small hen egg. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:33 AM Post #7192705
| next ...two halves 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:35 AM Post #7192706
| Then the seeds ...large dark ones ...63 in all.
Just look at those little darlings 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:38 AM Post #7192711
| A lot of scorching and burning from the very dry heat ...even Glass House Angel was scorched ...never seen that before (I think it was the cold to very hot that did it ...not sure though. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:44 AM Post #7192717
| I was pleasantly surprised to see dreamtime noid with no scorching on the skirts and the tendrils valiantly fighting to stay up ...only the older bloom dried up the new ones are still ok ...that is pretty good for heat tolerance.
The darker peach coloured one is still unfrizzled though sulking ...I am pretty wrapped in the darker peach ...very exotic looking, photo does no justice as we all know.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:48 AM Post #7192723
| The peach bloom still not gone yet and no sign of burning on tendrils or skirts ...picture taken around 4.30 this arvo still hot but wind bring a drop in temps ...here 's looking forward to some nice stable weather so we can see nice undamaged leaves and blooms. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:51 AM Post #7192726
| Ok then finishing with the arborea pod again ... 
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 21, 2009
06:57 PM Post #7194986
| That arborea pod looks like my (aurea) Golden Butter pods! Big, dark, ripe seeds--I bet they can't wait to start germinating ... |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
08:42 PM Post #7195358
| Ahhhh ...beautiful working conditions!
look how my plants have perked up after the big bake!
yes the seeds themselves look similar to others but darker. Do you have a better day there?
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
08:45 PM Post #7195365
| The seeds look similar but the pods are much rounder in shape, like no other that I have seen yet. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 21, 2009
08:47 PM Post #7195369
| Oh well ...back to work, but it's enjoyable, 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 22, 2009
01:46 AM Post #7196195
| Well I just received a whole swag of seed from cestrum wow! so my seed update for the seed bank will be delayed until monday/tuesday.
Thanks very much ...wonderful!
It's been a beaut day for doing stuff outside but now I am about to flop, I have given up drinking loads of coffee and I am more tired than usual,still it's a good thing.
Enjoy your evening everyone ...maybe back later. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 22, 2009
06:32 PM Post #7198205
| Ok gotta run, but
*Seeds present and happy in the arborea corks cestrum
*Also in the pod you sent.
*My Dreamtime noid blooms are still going ...great stamina, does not mind heat or cold, bloomed winter and now, without deformed blooms, great genes.
My second seed pod on OS double white dropped off but the first one set in the cold days and under the deep shade of the leaves is growing, this to me confirms that these angels need cool and/or deep shade to cross easily. Maybe experts can do it in the heat but I won't even try in the heat any more. I won't be crossing anything until Autumn flushes.
Enjoy the day ... |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
03:37 AM Post #7199652
| It's Friday!!!! ...what a week huh!
Never mind let's hope it gets better ...we all knew that we would have to pay the piper for our mild cool mild Spring ...and now here it is.The Big Bake ...Hopefully the winds won't come back. So here are different angels ...the two on the outside are my sister's girls, sweet sweet angels indeed.
Enjoy your weekend everyone.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 23, 2009
04:44 AM Post #7199666
| G'Day Cestrum, Have I got some potting up to do. Look at those Brug seedlings "Thick as fleas on a dogs ear". Haven't counted them but must be hundreds, or at least a fair few.
Brian
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
05:11 PM Post #7201264
| The little seedlings are very forgiving re transplanting ...lots of fine little white roots that separate very easily ...ease them out into a little shade at first and gradually give them a little more sun.
Once brugs have roots they are pretty easy ...for seedlings go gently with just seasol in their first drink (very diluted) after settling them in. I know you probably know all that already brian ...I repeat things for anyone who is new to brugmansia,they can go into plastic cups for now if you like ...that's what I use (with some drainage holes of course).Once they fill them up with roots (it will happen quite quickly) you can pot them on. I put them into rather large pots without any problems using washed river sand, this saves a whole lot of potting on into various pots, I have no problem with overpotting in this medium and the plants grow much quicker.
At the bottom of the large pot (ten inch) ...I put a bit of manure ( old milled cow poo) about an two inches (in a ten inch pot).I tested this and you will find the plants will grow much quicker than the potting on method.I don't think this would work in any other medium because the water would hang around too much. Grow them in pots before putting them into the ground (I am talking about seedlings).
Later when planting, if you have heavy clay, either plant into a built up garden or dig in plenty of manure and sand, planting in sandy soil? the manure and compost should be dug in. The plants will usually adapt to the soils even without this but the results will be much better if you take a little time to prepare their new home.
The seedlings will need a drink every day in the heat and even a mist if it's a heatwave.
Another thing ...the new little seedlings can be planted with the medium right up to the first two leaves ...it's a good idea to do that because the little seedling will sprout more roots that way (just like tomato seedlings).
Good luck with them brian ...I will be sending you some Arborea seeds, I know you wanted some arborea and seed is the only way to grow them, because these are species they come true to type.
|
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 23, 2009
08:55 PM Post #7201963
| You've got a good crop coming along there, Brian ... perhaps the largest number of brugs in SA LOL
It's always interesting to hear how others grow their plants. I go to the other extreme in growing my potted brugs. To good-quality potting mix I add cow/sheep manure, blood and bone with potash, Epsom salts (I figure it can't hurt), and water-retention crystals. I water with Seasol or, for larger plants, potash dissolved in water. The brugs don't seem to get waterlogged in pots. In fact, nothing really gets waterlogged in my garden ... I guess I wouldn't use such a rich mix in cold weather, when the brugs aren't growing. But then I wouldn't be potting them up in that sort of weather anyway.
I might have to try growing a few as Chrissy does, to see how they get on. It's just that everyone's climate is different and what works well in one garden may not be the best in another. (As I said, waterlogging is not a problem in mine ; although we get summer deluges, they pass fairly quickly and aren't as frequent as those in Brisbane or the Gold or Sunshine coasts. Much drier here.)
I think the greatest hindrance in getting brug cuttings to strike is overwatering--I'm sure that's how I lost my original FFA cutting. Plus cold weather, which slows everything down. The two together are virtually guaranteed to kill a brug cutting. In fact, have a look at how I'm striking some extra cuttings of my Golden Butter. The parent plant is growing by the back trellis, which I like because I can smell the flowers from inside the house. But the drawback is that it's south-facing and so I don't get as many flowers as I would in a sunnier spot. Plus, being an aurea, this is one brug that can take more sun than most. Yet I'm not prepared to remove the brug by digging it out and transplanting. So I took some cuttings. Big ones. The spot where I wanted to grow them is a bit hard; I couldn't dig far enough into the ground to bury the cuttings sufficiently to wedge them upright. So I got an old plastic pot with the bottom cut out that had been used as a plant guard. I added a sandy mix to this and planted the cuttings in it. They get eastern sun (normally I'd keep cuttings in warm shade) and I water every morning; the surrounding plants take up the excess water. Mind you, these are not ideal conditions for striking brug cuttings or growing them. I'd never try this on a precious brug--my original plant is safe and ready to provide extra cuttings if I need them, so I can be cavalier.
When they do strike, I'll give them some TLC by feeding them with manure and mulching with sugarcane to get them growing and flowering. It just demonstrates how tough they are.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
10:11 PM Post #7202290
| That is what this thread is all about ...I am learning as I go and want to share the experience because it has been so wonderful.
In the beginning I was so nervous about killing those precious seedlings and cuttings/plants that I was a nervous wreck! mind you we had two solid years of rain ...and cooler weather because of that.
This mean't that I needed to have really great drainage ...so I used the washed river sand method.
In all honesty I can't say how this method may not work in long periods of high heat ...in Texas (similar conditions to most of us) they don't expect much of their brugs in Summer. Spring and autumn are generally when the blooms are at their peak. This year I have had to hold brugs over in very exposed positions for the first time (hubby still moving stuff around and building) and while not ideal I have found that they are pretty tough.
Sure you get some torn or chewed leaves but still they have all soldiered on ...in many instances performed beautifully in a short mild day temp., break, remember the yellows that all bloomed in winter, even as there was frost on the ground (but not on them).
I think (only my view and experience) ...pushing them too hard may cause many problems. In America where we get the experienced advice, they need to push their plants to get flushes in before "real" winters ...we don't have to ...pushing too hard may result in lots of leaves and growth and fewer blooms (also invites the bugs to munch on lush growth) ...as I meet some new hybrid seedlings this view may change. I recall Alistair saying that the Aurea for instance blooms better without over feeding as does the Old Sydney Apricot. As we go along we will see what works best for each garden.
cestrum the large cuttings will take for you ...that is a great idea.
I agree re cuttings dying of too much water ...in winter you only need enough to stop them drooping.
my dreamtime noid is still standing up pretty well today...while many are distressed we have had in the last few weeks 3 lots of hail ...severe winds and extremes of both hot and cold plus two lots of red dust. I will allow the leaves to grow out on the trunk to build up some energy for the next flush then strip them off again. This one is sitting in a smaller pot than the others but rooted into the ground through the holes and I didn't want to move it because it had buds ...so I just threw sand into the surrounding area to let the roots wander around. I can hardly wait to see what it might do in a large pot or the ground.
Just ignore hubby's stuff in the background (he is moving stuff around to make more room )
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
10:15 PM Post #7202308
| Even Butter Bomb is a bit unhappy ... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
10:16 PM Post #7202312
| and Glass House Angel noid ...never seen this before! 
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
10:19 PM Post #7202328
| The arborea are surprisingly ok ...I think the cold wind (very fierce) did more damage to the others than the hot wind??? (still on P plates in the learning here). 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 23, 2009
10:21 PM Post #7202339
| Yes, I was amazed to hear of people in the US feeding their brugs several times *a week*--that can't be good for microorganisms in the soil and might leave the plants softer and more susceptible to bugs and viruses as well. But, as you say, their growing period is so short that this is the way they can be guaranteed of getting blooms before frost and snow return.
I have found one drawback to plants rooting thru the drainage holes of pots and into the ground: the roots can block the drainage holes entirely. So you might end up with a waterlogged plant that way. Mind you, it doesn't seem to have harmed the brugs of mine that have done this--but that's possibly because the winters here are so dry that there's no danger of waterlogging and, come summer, they need all the moisture they can get (here, in my hot but drier climate). It's a real bugger to cut the roots out of the drainage holes though, even with tin snips. The rough handling might kill another species, but the brugs can take it! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
10:23 PM Post #7202349
| A big surprise! like wayne said these OSdouble whites are amazing ...the older blooms are rotting in the centre from the heat Just tug them off gently) but then these ones won't because the skirts are dropping before the bloom even turns white ...wow! 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
10:34 PM Post #7202396
| Yes I recently moved over thirty large brugs with roots that had "escaped" ...I got a sharp spade and shoved the tip of it under the edge of the pot and tipped it a little then slipped the edge of a trolley in there and leaned really hard on it and they came up. I chopped the escapees off with a really sharp knife and used the same knife around the top edge of the pot to help ease it out. After that I trimmed the roots and fluffed them a little before repotting. I also removed a few leaves and gave them ...a seasol drink. They didn't even blink.
Those big cuttings will need some water every day in heat I bet you see leaves in just a couple of days! :)
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 23, 2009
11:11 PM Post #7202511
| The hard part for me was trying to free the roots that had grown thru the drainage holes. I couldn't just cut the side of the pot and ease out the brug because the roots had become enmeshed in the drainage holes. I had to try and wedge the tin snips between each root and the edge of the drainage hole and cut it out that way. It was hard work! But of course the brugs survived, tough as they are ... |
brical1
brisbane
Australia
October 23, 2009
11:21 PM Post #7202543
| This brug ...single white versicolor...(not so white looking in this pic though) came about through an 'escaped' root...moved a pot and this was the result! 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 23, 2009
11:33 PM Post #7202573
| Ok ...wow! never happened here so far, I don't think wandering roots get as excited on heavy clay, probably in sandier soil, but then I hadn't had the brugs in that area for more than about 4 months (I had moved those ones into shelter. The ones left in the all day Winter sun could be a different story.
It's lovely though :) |
brical1
brisbane
Australia
October 23, 2009
11:43 PM Post #7202592
| I never had the heart to move it and because it grew so well I let it be.Gets all the runoff from potted plants nearby.
The 2 Tantra pods I showed in an earlier post turned out to be duds...Opened them up and they were full of what looked like 'big fat corks'..they were hollow inside...
Will wait and see now how the Tantra x Aurea go...keeping my fingers & toes crossed!lol |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 24, 2009
12:57 AM Post #7202723
| Sorry to hear that ...were they open pollinated or hand pollinated ...sorry I can't remember.
We need to hand pollinate to be sure.
Pollinate an unfurling bloom with pollen that shows like a smear of chalk on you fingertip.Once a bloom has already opened it might be too late for various reasons. Try to do it in cooler but not cold conditions on a bloom that is in a sheltered part of the tree so it stays reasonably cool.
These Arboreas (species) are wonderful, they are setting pods all by themselves ...they are self fertile.I guess Mother nature is making up for the fact that we can't get them going by cuttings. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 24, 2009
01:10 AM Post #7202738
| The brug in question was my 'froggy' aurea, and it had a few years in the same spot (in a pot) for its roots to grow out thru the drainage holes and into the ground. Did I mention that I completely neglected it LOL
Judy, is that white versicolor a seedling? This problem of empty seed husks is so disappointing--some of my lovely large Golden Butter husks turned out to be empty. Yet I'm finding that brug seeds I'd thrown out thinking they weren't viable (and so not worth sending to the seedbank) have started to germinate in the ground. Only a few though, so most really weren't viable ... |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 24, 2009
02:09 AM Post #7202800
| Judy that is a disapointment.
In my flurry to send seed to Chrissy for the seed bank I neglected to check for viability. Many seeds were sterile. Also, some seeds were infested by bugs! :(
A point to learn.
Here in Australia we are in fact very much learning. This forum is the place to describe plant proffincy, malody or complait. A place to rejoyce in success of a wonderful bloom, and a place to relax once we know that a new plant is a success or failure... ... ...
Something for the bin.
A few of us have known and grown Brugs since childhood, enjoyed them as "that old Angel's Trumpet in the back yard" or perhaps grew up very wary and suspiscious of "those poisionus plants".
Today, thanks to the professional interest of Dr. Alistair Hay, and input to the media from noted gardeners such as Leo Schofield, the Genus Brugmansia has raised interest here in Australia.
Chrissy T. has a "crown" in bringing our gardening Australian interests to this forum!
Thank you Chrissy.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 24, 2009
02:21 AM Post #7202804
| Thanks wayne ...I am just a brug lover! and compulsive about things I love (not the only one I am sure)
Like you and many others ...when we know better we do better right?
In order to know better we need experience, I have learned many times that you can't always depend on information to be right for your situation.
We can learn by each others trials and tribulations and share the joy!
I feel for you judy finding empty corks but hey who knew a couple of years ago we would be showing seeds and pods with each other ...how cool is that! I think we are doing well.
No crown please ...I am sure you must all be reaching for the earplugs! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 24, 2009
02:28 AM Post #7202811
| oops I forgot to say that the sharing and generosity of our brug lovers here has been outstanding! and I am really proud to belong here!
Many thanks to all of you each and everyone.
It's just the beginning |
77sunset
Merino
Australia
October 24, 2009
02:35 AM Post #7202814
| Hear, hear, Wayne. Chrissy has converted so many to the world of Angels. I had never thought of growing them before and am so glad I have them now. It is very exciting in the garden here as I watch bids on the angels , epis and iris.
Mine are a tad slower than all yours up there. Alphonse's bud is growing and GHA has buds galore. I am watching all the babies in the greenhouse because the sluggies have been visiting. Chrissy, the babies may soon be able to travel on their own. I don't want to risk stem damage though so will wait a little longer. I will hopefully have lots of flowers to post on here later as summer gets here . |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 24, 2009
02:41 AM Post #7202817
| Never mind being a bit later ...just wait! it's soooo exciting! the parade of seedlings about to commense ...comparing this with that!
I wouldn't have done this if I had not loved Brugs since the White suaveolens ...who knew? ...well now WE do!
and it's wonderful! |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 24, 2009
02:59 AM Post #7202829
| All good meetings require a facilitator; a person who can give un-biased direction and account.
You are doing a great job Chrissy!
Here is our plant of your "FFA", doing just fine! :)
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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brical1
brisbane
Australia
October 24, 2009
03:29 AM Post #7202837
| Your FFA is looking great Wayne. Mine is really starting to take off now too.
Chrissy I dabbled with some but am pretty sure these 2 were open pollinated..
Cestrum...no it wasn't a seedling(for me anyway), I received it in a swap some years back. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 24, 2009
08:12 AM Post #7202990
| Wayne Clementine is looking mighty fine!
I see she is looking more like her old self after all the bad weather ...good work!
FFA will set a Y at approx 5 to 6 ft and hopefully you can get the same big flush that I did ...in hopefully kind conditions.After watching the distressed blooms it makes me a bit nervous, never the less I know it's a champ and will win your heart. I have a feeling it will bloom in high heat again. After seeing the double white drop it's skirts like that today I am hoping FFA will do that too in Autumn maybe, the third stuffed skirt is still attractive but it would be very interesting to see a dropped skirt just because I haven't seen one in person yet (that is until tomorrow when the OSW double turns white. Stand by for a picture!
I eagerly await FFA blooming in your gardens and i hope it brings you the joy it bought me ...hopefully it will always cause us to pause and remember why it has it's name.
Just a note ...don't over fertilize in high temps ...just go gently.
|
tropicalsydney
Sydney
Australia
October 24, 2009
10:24 AM Post #7203273
| Hi Chrissy,
I am very nervous about trying the seeds, haven't grown any in a lot of years. It is also difficult as we are going away on the 9th for 2 weeks and when we get back we have a lot of work out in the new front garden to do. I have quite a few brugs in there now and will be adding more; all of these will be on the shadier side without the hot afternoon summer sun. I would love an arborea with its winter flowers but as previously mentioned am nervous about growing them from seed, could you please grow one for me.
I now have buds on my only older one and this year I will be looking at the changing colour between the seasons. All of my new ones are growing now, some were a little slow to start and strangely enough Lipstick was the slowest to settle in and get new leaves. I can't wait to see all that mad growth Chrissy mentioned and I will add photos as they eventually flower. Hoping I have some, out of all of these, that no one has.
Chrissy mentioned how we are all learning to grow brugs and that in each garden it is so different. Even though we both garden in western Sydney on the clay soil, we have different clays; I knew that there were two clay soils out here but a bit of research just now mentioned the 4 different clay soils out here. So it is really interesting to read how everyone is growing their plants and how they care for them, fert and water wise.
Helen |
Budgieman
Sydney
Australia
October 25, 2009
01:40 AM Post #7205889
| Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Chrissy. As a man I need constant redirection!!!
Getting near to being set up for seed growing.
How long from bud to flower?
Steve |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 25, 2009
11:51 PM Post #7208795
| Hi steve glad you found your way ...
cestrum your precious seeds have gone out today ... 12 of them heading your way.
I have given out 5 each to the following because cestrum was so generous as to share the pod (it was reserved long ago).
There are many more pods coming along so anyone that wanted some and missed out ...it's just a little wait.
(steve I would have liked to have sent you some but I still don't have an address to send anything to).
Seeds have gone out to the following :
5 to jean
5 to judy (now you will have your 4711 )
5 to wayne (you will love the winter blooms and fragrance
5 to brian who wants to experiment with the grafting of these.
5 to mya (to see if they grow ok in the tropics)
5 to ann for the same reason
5 to shell. along with her bank withdrawal. Good luck!
Please understand that these are very rare and lovely Brugs that come true to type and are self fertile (rare indeed)...no worries about pods, they do it all by themselves.This type was very easy to germinate for me and so long as they have some summer dappled shade they hopefully will thrive for you as they did for me ...I also want to thank Alistair who provided the seeds in the first place.
The balance of seeds will be planted for anyone wanting a seedling for any reason.
I am sorry I am behind with the seed bank list ...I have been rushed off my feet over the day and have now just stopped to draw breath.
It's wet and cool here, hopefully you too will get some rain.
Happy gardening everyone. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 26, 2009
12:09 AM Post #7208845
| You're going to make a lot of people happy with those seeds, Chrissy :-)
Brian, I gather that you've been sidelined into growing brugs from seeds rather than following your first passion, which is grafting? The ideal brug to graft would have to be the sanguinea. It's a beautiful looking species but, unfortunately, will not thrive or flower in the sub/tropics. Trying to graft a sanguinea onto the rootstock of a more heat-tolerant brug--perhaps some of your hardier seedlings, if not simply the common apricot versicolor--would be a worthwhile experiment, if you're interested. First, of course, you would have to get hold of some sanguinea seeds. (They grow easily from seed.) I see that they're being sold on ebay; not the cheapest price (cheap seeds but $7 for P&H) but might be worthwhile if you can't get hold of it any other way. Just a thought ... |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 26, 2009
12:51 AM Post #7208924
| G'Day, Cestrum I bought 2 B sanguinea in the Winter from Tesselaars. Mine is doing OK but is only about a foot high, Colleens doesn't seem to want to grow. The trouble is, mine only has 2 shoots and 1 has to stay with the plant and the other I don't know whether to risk losing it as a graft or a cutting so at present it is a part of the mother plant. Perhaps if I didn't check on it so often it might branch and give me more pieces.
The B. suaveolens seeds that you sent and were a bit slow to germinate were potted up yesterday and there were only 7 plants from 44 seed and 2 non-viable ones that I diced.
Chrissy, are these special seeds the ones I already have or are they still coming?
I thought the ones I had were the specials and was a bit hesitant to risk them by grafting. What I might do is to use one as scion material and see how I go and I assume that if I leave a growth bud at the base then the plant will just sprout out again.
It's a bit funny, I don't usually hesitate with grafting because I know they will grow but the Brugs I am completely ignorant and I need to tread carefully until I do know. I imagine I would be at risk of being lynched if I did kill one, strung up on a Mallee tree with a bit of nylon rope (can't use Hemp might go to jail)
Brian |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 26, 2009
02:05 AM Post #7208999
| Noooo those previous few seeds were exceptional hybrid seeds ...these ones are posted today! from that last few seeds you should get beautiful golden blooms. Butter Bomb and Glass House Angel noid are solid gold!
The ones you get in the next day or two are as described as above ...arborea species. Why not grow out two or three to use for grafting (since it's considered next to impossible to grow from cuttings).
The rest grow just to enjoy because they are glorious little blooms and will give you plenty of pods to grow your own and do what you like with ...please write that down somewhere.
I urge everyone now we are getting into the tracking side of the Brugs to please keep track of the names ...it's very important to developing better Brugmansias ...if you lose a label or can't remember ...they are noids or so and so noid.
cestrum I got mine up in 10 days (but it was in January) ...lets see whose come up first everyone ...this climate that climate let's see what difference the temps and conditions make to germination.
I will plant mine on Thursday ...ready ...set ...go! |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 26, 2009
03:07 AM Post #7209045
| No fair my seeds are not here yet.
I just received a Tesselaars catalogue and in it they have 2 named Brugs "Hot Pink" and "Peaches & Cream" both Candida Xs. Are they legitimate named varieties or just names they apply themselves? $29 & $14 ea respectively pretty stiff price if the quality is the same as my B.sanguineas they were $14.
Brian |
tropicalsydney
Sydney
Australia
October 26, 2009
03:48 AM Post #7209067
| Hi Brian,
Peaches & Cream is another name for Maya
Hot Pink is another name for Ecuador Pink
so you will probably have them. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 26, 2009
04:01 AM Post #7209078
| Ditto! I agree.
If we all start on thursday friday or saturday then we can all do it together.
The seeds I am talking about were all sent today.
This message was edited Oct 26, 2009 7:03 PM |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 26, 2009
04:58 AM Post #7209109
| Yes 'Hot Pink' = 'Ecuador Pink' (which is the correct name)
'Maya' is probably what you have: 'Peaches and Cream' is a variegated clone of a different species (B. versicolor) and is not in Australia as far as I know, though the name has been used erroneously here for 'Maya'. |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 26, 2009
05:19 AM Post #7209115
| Crikey I just potted up 18 of Brical's Tantra Xs, they were planted 10/10/09 and some were 3" high. You sure they're not weeds. I discarded about 6 or so because something had chewed the stem half way through. Have any of you others had a similar problem in the seed tray not planted out? Damage is similar to Cut Worm damage on Tomatoes or Pumkins planted in open ground except this or these villian must have a smaller mouth than Cut Worms.
Brian |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 26, 2009
11:48 PM Post #7212514
| Thanks Chrissy, B. arborea seeds arrived today. Just about to go out and plant them. Bit chilly today. Oh, discovered another old double white today at Beecroft on Beecroft Road. Could not pull over, but will investigate ASAP.
Thanks again,
W.
P.S. More seeds coming your way for the Bank.
OSA x noid
'Aztec Gold' x noid no:11 x noid
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77sunset
Merino
Australia
October 27, 2009
01:34 AM Post #7212688
| Chrissy, wave to your teenage adoptees. They are growing well after a sluggie attack. I sprayed a bit of Eucalyptus oil around and laid some snail pellets. That stopped them . The teenagers are already thinking of what clothes to pack for their trip. The bud on Alphonse is growing by the day. GHA is looking well. I actually have 2. One is now in the ground and the other in a large pot. I intend to keep them that way.
Wayne, Berocca is growing faster than the others and with some warm weather coming up they should all really take off. I don't have a lot to report on from here as I am way behind all you northern warm people. I am keeping my file on all the angels so will be able to tell which is doing what and when.
Jean. 
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
01:39 AM Post #7212692
| wayne we are all planting over thursday/friday/sat to allow the others to recieve theirs on time and get ready. I know you said you didn't have the room for much more but these are not huge brugs ...and every garden should have one of these.
your angel is so pretty!
do you think that old double white looked the same as this?
I waited all day for Old Sydney Double to look a bit happier but she is not enjoying the cold winds of last night and the pounding rain yesterday,another angel in distress here ...her skirts did drop before the awful weather though so you can see them. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
01:44 AM Post #7212699
| jean they look great! ...how did you apply the E oil ? did you follow the ABC gardening recipe?
There are so many grubs and munchers/white fly etc about in this rain.I think your plants may be a bit happier than mine at the moment.
It feels like we are going into winter. Brugs hate wet roots in cold weather. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
02:01 AM Post #7212713
| Ooops missed you there Alistair ...so that means
Peaches and Cream is really Maya.
wayne says you were comparing the old white doubles around sydney a while back to see if they were the same ...any conclusions on that?
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 27, 2009
02:43 AM Post #7212768
| Thanks Jean on your feedback for 'Berocca'.
She is vigorous here and strikes very easily. Hopefully her pod sister, 'Sr. Bertrille' will come along too.
Both are in the ground growing here.
We planted the virtuous "Flying Nun" in safe company I hope...
An aurea cv... ... ... Watch out Sally Field! :)
Meanwhile, the naughty 'Berocca' is in bed with the curlicued monsieur 'Alphonse Mucha'! :))
As for big brother 'Giant', he is assigned next to Chrissy's 'Fire Fighter Angel'. We thought the "two boys" might get along together well...
That is, both like the gym; huge biceps! :)))
Chrissy, I am a advocate for "Free Pollination"! :)
Those unexpected pods remind me of the joy had in unwrapping Christmas presents... ... ...
Must think up a "Bumper Sticker"... ... ...
"Brug Liberation NOW! - Free sex for Angels". :)))
This message was edited Oct 27, 2009 2:51 AM
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
tropicalsydney
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
04:03 AM Post #7212797
| Brian, I bought the B sanguinea from Tesselears as well, will be interesting to see how they go.
I do have a question. About how long is it from about a 5cm long bud until it opens? I have a feeling that the first flower on my Apricot will open while we are away. Hope there will be other flowers following it soon.
Wayne loved your last post, it had me laughing. Your bumper sticker would have people wondering what brugs are and why are angels having sex. |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 27, 2009
05:16 AM Post #7212821
| When I received my B. sanguineas the one I kept was a cutting about 4" out of the soil 1/2" in diameter with two buds just started to grow. The one I gave Colleen was a similar cutting but with a new shoot about another 4" long. I don't know why mine is growing OK and hers not.
Brian |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
05:27 AM Post #7212824
| Sorry can't help you with that one ...maybe someone else can.
wayne you are a rascal! you said the S word! *Blush* I suppose I am performing artificial insemination on the poor darlings.
Your dear adopted angels are doing very well here too ...
Love the idea of the big fellas flexing their leaves at the botanical gym!
I would love a
*Love an Angel!* sticker myself
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 27, 2009
03:35 PM Post #7214198
| Chrissy, is that double white the plant I sent to you?
I have not seen such a big distance between the "skirts". Maybe just the conditions it is presently under.
Did not mention, but sometimes this plant will throw a single bloom. It would be curious to see results from pollination of these blooms.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
04:13 PM Post #7214329
| Yes it is ...I was pretty surprised to see the skirt drop down while the bloom was still green.
Because we are having such big swings in conditions I don't know what caused this. We will hit 30C today from a cold 18C here yesterday.Poor plants don't know if they should grow or what.
Thanks again for this lovely Old Sydney Double White, cestrum was kind enough to send Old Melbourne White and it's growing well ...we will be waiting to see if there is a difference.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 27, 2009
05:01 PM Post #7214491
| All of Wayne's double whites he sent me are in bud now. Most seem to be the same but there are some slight differences in leaf texture, so there may be more than one clone. Of the ones I picked up in Queensland in 2007 there are three different ones - looking identical until you really examine them closely. 2 with very slightly bigger flowers, of these one more virus tolerant than the other, and the third with very slightly smaller flowers, lower virus tolerance and not quite so hairy leaves. IMO they should all be called 'Knightii' even though they are not all the same clone, as they are SO similar and there is no way of telling which is the original 'Knightii' (from the 1840's), if indeed there ever was only ONE original.
Chrissy your last couple of pics of 'Knightii' (old syd dble white) seem to be typical slightly deformed flowers from buds initiated in winter..
"P&C" in Australia is the same as 'Maya', but proper 'Peaches & Cream' is not.
I am about to start compiling a list of Australian cvs for inclusion on the book.
I am a bit confused about the various newer names in this and earlier threads (which ones are just nick-names, and which ones are intended as proper names).
Could I get some assistance please with which are intended as proper names, and any spelling corrections? When they appear in the book, it will be in such a way that the names are permanently established, so I would like to get it right!!
Firefighter Angel
Berocca (may be a problem with this as it is trademarked by Bayer) - might need to change the spelling - berokka, berocka, berocker!???
Sr Bertrille
Flying Nun
Glasshouse Angel
Dreamtime
any I have missed??
Could the owners of these (think they are all Wayne's and Chrissy's!) please tell me if the names are intended to be permanent?? [I think I know the answer with FFA :-)]
Thanks!
|
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 27, 2009
05:06 PM Post #7214506
| About that 'Old Melbourne White'--I'm not sure if it's a double! Although it's been growing in my parents' garden for at least 15 years now, I can't for the life of me remember if it's a double. (This was pre-digital camera.) All I can remember is that this is the only brug I saw in Melb until I got my first versicolor from a nursery and later saw my first sanguinea at the botanical gardens. (This was pre-ebay.) But back then, if you saw a brug--a rare event--that white one I sent you was the one you saw.
Now the Ipswich white was given to me by a friend of a friend and described as a 'double white', so I'm pretty sure that one *is* a double.
Edited to say: got caught in the cross-post--Chrissy, I was responding to your message. Welcome back, Alistair. Problem with using any of those names in your book is that none (so far as I know) are registered). They need to be evaluated before being granted registration, so they would need to be grown out at different locations for, what, a year? Will this be done in time for your book's publication? Actually, before the book is sent off for printing? Just a thought ...
This message was edited Oct 28, 2009 7:20 AM
This message was edited Oct 28, 2009 7:21 AM |
77sunset
Merino
Australia
October 27, 2009
06:02 PM Post #7214660
| Alistair, I can help you with Glasshouse Angel as it came from me. I was able to get cuttings from a tree in a small glasshouse and Chrissy and I gave it the name just between us. I now use only the initials GHA for reference so we know which plant we mean. I was told the original was bought via a catalogue as a versicolor which it is not ,so it could be anything. We think mainly Aurea. It is a noid as far as any registration is concerned.
Hope this helps and I look forward to the book.
I also have a double white here, growing from a cutting off a poor plant in Portland Gardens. When it gets large enough, I will send you a piece .
Jean. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
06:14 PM Post #7214693
| I am trying to remember to put noid after non registered names but sometimes I forget sorry.
*Glass House Angel noid was the one purchased two or three decades ago from diggers and called a yellow versicolor ...of course it isn't it's an aurea noid.One of our gardeners *jean* found it squashed up the back of an old glasshouse and went back for some cuttings.
*Dreamtime is a noid and there is none "out there" so I don't think that counts.
*wayne is trialing the rest in various gardens.
The only seedling I have out there is
Fire Fighter Angel noid (for trial) and I have shared only a couple of bits of Birthday Angel (noid) because of it's special story, I don't intend to register it and have asked that these remain in the gardens of the receivers for a year.
After seeing what happened to Clementine I will be very careful with my seedlings. In future I will keep them for a year before sharing.
I hope that helps tidy that up for you. I don't envy all that tracking.
I also want everyone to know that I don't share anything being trialed.
This message was edited Oct 28, 2009 9:16 AM
This message was edited Oct 28, 2009 9:17 AM |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 27, 2009
06:47 PM Post #7214797
| "I also want everyone to know that I don't share anything being trialed"
Chrissy would you clarify your statement please?
Am I trialing the plants raised from seed supplied or am I only trialing plants grown from cuttings supplied by other members? Am I allowed to give seedlings to friends to trial under different conditions here?
That is can I give a couple to my son to trial in a much frostier area than here. To "The Tablegrape Grower" who has more open area than me but similar frost conditions?
Brian |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
07:30 PM Post #7214937
| brian trialing just means that if you have grown out something (a seedling) you think is extra special and would like to register it then you send a few cuttings to people in different climates and conditions to see how the plants go.Sharing of the ones already sold isn't trialing.Your seedlings are yours.
If they come from someone and you get something special then it's nice to give feedback, try to keep names of them.
If for some reason you mix something or a label is lost then they are noids. |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 27, 2009
07:34 PM Post #7214946
| Thanks all...
I hope I'm not sounding like "name police" LOL, but there are perhaps some slight misconceptions here about registration:
A cultivar name can be formally established (i.e. made permanent) quite separately from the registration process. It just needs to be published in hard copy (e.g. a sales list, a magazine, a book) with some description - the description *can* be quite minimal (e.g. "pink", which is a bit silly, but that's the rule). The plant must be a cultivar, which means it must have been propagated (but the rules do not specify into how many individuals) not merely a single seedling, and that it is stable in the characteristics it has been selected for). The name must conform with the rules of the International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants (the most common mistake is using a name already in use and established in the genus concerned, or one so similar to an already established or widely used one that it may cause confusion). If a name has been established independently of it being submitted to a register-holder, then it is the job of the register-holder to track it down and incorporate it into their register (of course it helps if they are told about it!).
While it is desirable to thoroughly evaluate a new cv before naming it formally, it is not necessary beyond seeing that the characteristics the cv is selected for are stable. The concept of stability is a bit slippery, particularly in Brugmansia where things like flower colour and form may be environmentally influenced. So, to take FFA as a (semi-)hypothetical, if the various plants of this one that are budding up now produce flowers that generally resemble those that Chrissy selected it for, it could be deemed stable, even if people get different shades of yellow under different conditions, but provided it wasn't the case that the cv had been selected for a particular shade of yellow which only occurred under certain conditions.
Registration is done by people/organizations maintaining registers, not by the growers (though growers can and do *submit* cv names for registration). The main purpose of registration is to maintain a list of all cvs that have been formally named, so that name duplication can be avoided. Organizations maintaining registers usually also publish (and thus formally establish) new names on behalf of the growers. Registration organizations do have a role in quality control, but it is of the names, not the plants! So if the grower thinks a new cv is good enough to name, then s/he can go ahead and either name it independently or send it in for establishment by a register-holder (usually the International Cultivar Registration Authority - in limbo at the moment for Brugmansia, but names are being registered with BGI).
So, basically if anyone here wants names established, it can be done by inclusion in the book (as one way of doing it). But if you do not want names established, then of course I will leave them out!
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
07:37 PM Post #7214969
| Brian I don't think you would be trialing any of the above. If someone has asked you to trial one of their own special seedings then then you would know.
Seeds are yours. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 27, 2009
07:52 PM Post #7215032
| Thanks for clarifying that, Alistair. I think your book would be a wonderful opportunity to claim the names that our growers have already been using for their prized hybrids! |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 27, 2009
07:53 PM Post #7215036
| Remember Brian that I have always said that the seeds I've sent to you are yours to do with as you wish: to grow, give away, sell, throw out, blast off into space ... |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
07:57 PM Post #7215058
| Ha ha ha Oh goodness me I have me a headache now!
Please put Fire Fighter Angel in there Alistair because I know it's special.
The other seedlings I have grown out are lovely ...the yellows in particular, but it's too soon for me to say that any are worthy of names,
I am thinking of perhaps a couple more but want to see at least a second flush (buds are on them now).
I am still chasing a "Special "white to name and then I might step back and leave it to other fans. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
08:03 PM Post #7215083
| I agree with cestrum ...go for it! if you do get something special it would be nice to name the hybridizer and offer them a piece of it ...that is my intention.(Some seeds I am growing out for the hybridizer remain theirs unless instructed differently).
cestrum the OMW has a very velvet leaf similar to OSdouble white ...I suppose it could be a single, but so far the little leaves look like OS double white. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 27, 2009
08:03 PM Post #7215084
| So I guess this means that Alistair will need some high-res pics of each of these new named brugs ...?
Edited to add: caught in the cross-post again! My Melbourne white cutting has a handful of buds and, weather permitting, we should be able to establish this question of double/single in the next few weeks (fingers crossed).
This message was edited Oct 28, 2009 10:05 AM |
77sunset
Merino
Australia
October 27, 2009
08:55 PM Post #7215260
| Now to add more confusion to the mix. Alistair, as my Glass House Angel noid was never named , but just sold as a brugmansia , can we use the name for all the cutting grown plants we now have ?
Can the name be used when breeding from it ? It is definitely not a versicolor it was sold as and so lovely it's well worth a name. I will keep using the initials as a name for ID but it would be nice to use the whole name.
Jean. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
08:58 PM Post #7215272
| Betting it's a candida, single or double is good.
Here is my OSW double again a bit whiter today ...grey sky out there but it's warming up and very humid.
What a shame about the weather ...it would have been beautiful if not deformed ...kind of pretty anyway.
I thought I would not like dropped skirts but it does look nice ...I don't find those really long dropped ones very attractive really ...just my taste.I like this type of drop the best. I feel lucky to have seen it even if it was doeformed ...after all the hail and winds etc I am impressed these angels are here at all.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
08:59 PM Post #7215276
| Sorry double post here I was talking about cestrums OMW. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
09:03 PM Post #7215291
| jean GHA noid is out there for sure ...I don't see why you can't unless it is ID'ed as something else.
It will always be GHA noid here in my garden because it was a great adventure and GHA noid is the parent of many beautiful babies yet to come I am sure. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 27, 2009
09:06 PM Post #7215294
| Very pretty, Chrissy. I can't believe I would have forgotten if my parents' brug looked like that. (And it wouldn't have taken me so long to even request a cutting from it.) So I reckon my Melbourne brug is indeed a single. Candida? We'll have a better idea when it flowers; for now, it's pure guesswork. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
09:07 PM Post #7215298
| Alistair how long will the book take ...I can't imagine, how difficult it would be ...I reckon the last chaper may include some new seedlings if it is a while off, if not I guess there will be another book in the pipeline say 3 years away. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
09:08 PM Post #7215302
| I am looking forward to it what ever it is. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
09:15 PM Post #7215319
| second lot of blooms and some firsts on the way ...I certainly hope the weather improves ...these blooms may be weird too. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
09:17 PM Post #7215324
| more 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 27, 2009
09:21 PM Post #7215337
| Fire Fighter Angel looking bullet proof ...amazing!
Some plants have more critters wanting to munch on them ...some leaves tear easily, lots of hail holes in many but here he is almost perfect!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 28, 2009
01:45 AM Post #7215943
| Thanks Alistair for taking the time in explaining the cv naming process. Also, a big thank you for including our interests in developing cvs and the opportunity to have our plant names published.
There were three seedlings of 'Pink Panther' x noid out of a batch of approximately twenty that showed worthy traits, i.e. colour, flower form, leaf texture. Apart from a numeric system that I used to identify each, I gave the three plants "pet names".
1. 'Sr. Bertrille' (as in The Flying Nun, due to the pure white almost crystalline bloom and it's long tendrils upward pointing like a nun's cornet)
2. 'Berocca' identical to the above, except the colour of that sometimes needed pick me up! :) Yes, I thought at the time that the name would be Registered TM. So "mea culpa" to all for adding to the naming confusion. 'Berocca' will be from now on known as ... 'Mea Culpa'! :)
3. 'Giant', a huge growing textured leaf "muscle man". Reminded me of Atlas from Greek mythology who had such beautiful feminine cousins...
A lovely big lemon / green bloom. "He" is a giant, a plant I think would do well in back of border planting.
The other two significant seedlings I raised were from a batch of 'Aztec Gold' x noid (most probably aurea)
1. 'Coral Reef' rock melon coloured blooms with nicely up turned tendrils. So named for it's colour and significance to Chas. Darwin connections and Bi-centenary.
2. 'Love Potion no.9' was number nine to bloom in the batch. A lovely crisp yellow, small rather dainty blooms in profusion. Like my 'Berocca', there might be a TM on that name given the song by the same name.
So there are my 5. From memory, 'Berocca' was only sent out to Chrissy, Judy, Alistair, Jean and my own Sr. Anne. So please correct the name tags folks.
Again, many thanks Alistair for setting us straight!
I will post pix of each following this.
First up...
'Mea Culpa' and 'Sr. Bertrille'. :)
This message was edited Oct 28, 2009 2:01 AM
This message was edited Oct 28, 2009 3:07 AM
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 28, 2009
01:46 AM Post #7215944
| 'Giant' 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 28, 2009
01:47 AM Post #7215945
| 'Coral Reef' 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 28, 2009
01:49 AM Post #7215949
| 'Love Potion no.9' 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
02:33 AM Post #7215985
| wayne I don't think that you need to change that name ...I think it's only floral registered names not trademarks, or am I confused ...I hope not because I am thinking some new pink and white may be called iced vo vo as in an australian name etc.
Beautiful Angels!
Thankyou for the seed contribution.
I am drying out a pod of Old Sydney Apricot x Butter Bomb ... picked today and that will go into the seed bank. |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 28, 2009
03:14 AM Post #7216017
| Yes I do Chrissy. :)
'Mea Culpa' is fun!
Especially when geared with my 'Sr. Bertrille!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 28, 2009
03:17 AM Post #7216018
| OMG wrong pic! :((((( 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
tropicalsydney
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
05:21 AM Post #7216046
| Wayne they are gorgeous. The yellows are amazing and Coral Reef is such an unusual colour. |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 28, 2009
07:48 AM Post #7216199
| G'Day All, In the initial stages up to first flowering I assume that all that's needed, name wise is, seed supplier and parent (s) if known. Then when every seedling flowers with magnificent blooms they will need a descriptive name added, as in Waynes "Giant". Am I on the right track purely in the ID sense so that the history of each plant can be checked?
Actually as I said some time back there are so few Brugs here that each new plant has the potential to be better than what is here. I think we (I) will need some guide lines on assessing a new plant particularly from the bloom point of view because our climate will decide on the suitability for this area but you other growers might already have blooms far superior.
Brian |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 28, 2009
03:10 PM Post #7217466
| Thanks Helen.
The following is a pic of what I would reject out of any batch of seedlings if it is of some help Brian.
This one is from 'Aztec Gold' x noid, same pod as 'Coral Reef' and 'Love Potion no.9'.
Of the twenty or so plants that were raised to flowering stage from that pod, all but four looked pretty much like this one. Sure, it might have the potential to be a good parent. However I am not bothering with it given the good results from two or three that I have retained. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
03:59 PM Post #7217612
| Congratulations to Alistair
http://www.brugmansia.us/content/index.php?option=com_fabrik...
brian
*Great foliage
*Great Bloom
*Great bug resistance
*Good flushes of flowers
*Qualities remaining stable in different areas.
I think that is what we are looking for.
wayne good example ...(gee but that would have been harsh). |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
04:08 PM Post #7217642
| Look!
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/189155/
How wonderful to see a beautiful Australian double listed in daves garden plant files.
Don't forget to add your pictures to the files.
They need to be registered cultivars.
wayne you have some stunning pics of named ones. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 28, 2009
05:45 PM Post #7217906
| Such a big blossom on such a small plant--typical of brugs!
Love the seedlings germinating around it lol |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 28, 2009
05:52 PM Post #7217937
| G'Day Wayne & Chrissy,
You miss the point. I'm totally ignorant regarding Brugmansias. I have nothing to compare mine with either in existing plants or plants in memory.
Go back to when you got your first computer and all the instructions assumed that you had already knew the basics. If you were like me "Huh what's Control, Alt, Delete? What's a cursor key or cursor for that matter? Or instal into a folder of your choice what's a folder? What's a PS2 port or COM port? Get the idea?
What is wrong with Wayne's flowers? Is it the colour or skinny flower tube or short whiskers? Is there something wrong with the leaves?
Brian |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
05:55 PM Post #7217947
| shhh those are cuttings of Fire Spike I will move them on when I repot.
Do you have it?
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/221493/
I hope everyone got their arborea seeds no feedback here yet. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:04 PM Post #7217980
| You're like me, Chrissy--see every opportunity to squeeze in a cutting here or a few seeds there :-)
I couldn't bear throwing out all my brug seedlings so, when potting up, put two or three to a pot. Somehow I reckon that's going to save the space problem lol
I thought my arborea seeds might have arrived yesterday, but hopefully they'll come today. I'll soak them overnight and plant them tomorrow.
Brian, the classic is the 'Any' key--so many newbies looked for it in vain on the keyboard ...
As for Wayne's ugly duckling, to my mind it's no improvement on what's already available--another white (so it's lost the yellow colour of the Aztec Gold) and the flower itself is flaccid in shape. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course, but I think we'll all find that, as more of our seedlings flower, our standards will rise and we'll be willing to turf out plants that only a few years ago we would have considered worth keeping. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:07 PM Post #7217993
| In your own garden you will probably like all of your new plants.
You need to google a bit to learn, that is how I found information.
It's really difficult with Australian angels because on the one hand we are told to only try and register or name something better than what is already available overseas ...but since we can't get the range how can we really compare ...my thoughts are if the plant is beautiful and a good performer and there is not a great deal of local competition, you should be able to try.
The main thing of concern is stuff going out under wrong names.The same plant may have many different nick names other wise.
As we have already seen, there offers on ebay for incorrect plants and seeds.
So keep track of those names.
I am just a brug fan ...I don't have all the answers sorry brian, I am learning just like everyone else. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:12 PM Post #7218015
| You should have your seeds by now ...you are making me nervous, who has their arborea seeds please ...all posted at the same time.
I was talking to brian about the composted angels.
cestrum please let me know if you have your seeds today.%$#@ |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:12 PM Post #7218016
| Hmmm ... the limited availability of registered cultivars in Australia would make a good case for having a national register of locally bred plants. But the work involved in getting it up and running and maintaining it would be enormous . Given that quarantine restrictions are getting tighter worldwide, I wonder if sometime down the track the overseas registration body might consider adding national registers for just this reason ...
Wanted to add, Brian, that if a plant grows well in your garden--in your particular conditions--and you like the look of it, then it's a keeper for you. If you want to register it, that's another matter because then you have to consider more objective criteria as described by Chrissy ... |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:14 PM Post #7218021
| Caught in the cross-post again!
Post has been a bit funny this week. Last week I received one half of an overseas seed order; I'm still waiting on the second half. It's from the same supplier, same genus, almost certainly posted at the same time (just sent in two envelopes). But I'm still waiting for the second batch to arrive ... |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:18 PM Post #7218030
| No seed yet Chrissy but todays Postie doesn't come til about noon.
Let you know what eventuates.
Brian |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:18 PM Post #7218031
| I hope you get them today ...I can't understand why not.
I am worried now. :(
not a peep out of anyone????? only wayne who is local. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:20 PM Post #7218038
| Thanks brian ...none there yet either???? what the!!! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:54 PM Post #7218143
| Ok I have taken a few deep breathes and realized that sometimes it does take 3/4 days by normal post ...breath 1 ...2 ...3,
Hopefully you will have them today. taking deep breathes until then.
cestrum do you have the fire spike ...it's a beauty, no smell but the red blooms look like they are carved out of red laquered wood, I love it. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 28, 2009
06:57 PM Post #7218154
| Not one for me, thanks Chrissy. I'm off to the PO to get today's mail ... |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 28, 2009
07:18 PM Post #7218212
| And they're here! Lovely looking seeds--thanks Chrissy! |
hel
Alstonville
Australia
October 28, 2009
07:50 PM Post #7218316
| Alistair, just a small question for you, What's it like in Nowra?
My son & grandson are moving to Bomaderry in a few weeks.
Hel |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 28, 2009
08:38 PM Post #7218507
| G'Day Chrissy, Postie's a bit early today, seeds have arrived. Thank you.
Brian |
MyaC
Magnetic Island
Australia
(Zone 11)
October 28, 2009
09:34 PM Post #7218704
| Thursday 11.30am...no seeds on Maggie Island yet,maybe tomorrow... |
brical1
brisbane
Australia
October 28, 2009
09:43 PM Post #7218736
| Yes Congratulations to Alistair on raising such a beauty as Clementine! What a magnificent bloom!. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
10:02 PM Post #7218791
| Mya yours always takes a day longer by ordinary mail, judy did you get yours yet? I won't plant here until the weekend now.
Here is a 10 inch pod off Old Sydney Apricot x Butter Bomb ...good healthy seed inside and lots of them as you can imagine in a pod of this size ...it's laying along the top of a ten inch measure.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
10:07 PM Post #7218804
| Sorry I am running a bit late updating the list ...Monday now due to ripening pods.
If you go back and add these ...
plus open pollinated Frosty Pink and Sugar Pink x Zabaglione.
Many crosses are repeat crosses now.
Once again many thanks.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
10:13 PM Post #7218831
| hel, I lived sort of down that way ...just past Ulladulla ...beautiful places, I think the south coast is very under rated with the Northern coasts getting all the glory ...for me it is milder in temperatures both hot and cold and no frosts, a bit of wind sometimes. Lots of cheap sea food!.
Miles of empty beautiful beaches, clean and unspoilt.
I remember coming back to live at Bondi and looking at the filthy water and being shocked, same with the beach too. Cronulla was a lot nicer I think but the South Coast is wonderful.
(sorry off topic everyone) |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 28, 2009
10:40 PM Post #7218937
| Please remember everyone that most of you have registered Brugs in your gardens blooming or about to bloom. please submit your pictures to the plant files here to show the differences, it's easy.
Only registered ones are excepted. |
shelly61
townsville
Australia
October 29, 2009
01:12 AM Post #7219406
| Sorry Chrissy no seeds as yet, probably tomorrow.
and thanks heaps I can't wait
Shell |
shelly61
townsville
Australia
October 29, 2009
01:16 AM Post #7219414
| I may not say anything on this forum but I read it religiously so I can learn all about these wonderful plants.
Thanks all
Shell |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 29, 2009
01:16 AM Post #7219416
| Oh what a flurry of notes...
Lost breath reading them all! :)
First up congrats Alistair on YOUR 'Clemantine'! :)))))
Lovely here second flush (post winter).
The rain soaked the blooms so now wet rags. YUCK :((
Once height is gained, your plant will be at its best. Presently the Viola tricolour is enjoying the blood and bone intended for your Brug.
Otherwise very healthy despite those Lady Birds... ... ...
I am accused of being a "murderer" each time I squash one! :(
Brian, enjoy your trial plantings and experience with Brugs!
Lots to learn along the way with trial and error.
Too easy!
Get rid of what is dull, repetitive or uninteresting compared to what curves the wheel for you!
Good luck! |
77sunset
Merino
Australia
October 29, 2009
04:45 PM Post #7221301
| Chrissy, thank you so much. My seeds arrived yesterday and are being planted today. I peeled them and the cork came off so easily. Lovely big beans inside. I will keep inside until they sprout then out to the greenhouse. It shouldn't take long as the weather is very humid and warm.
I am going to use the same planting medium I used before. A mix of perlite and some peat. It holds the moisture but is not too wet like sand or soil.
Just going out to water all the children.
Jean. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 29, 2009
06:03 PM Post #7221483
| shell that envelope may be sitting at the post office ...it may have been too big for the letter box.
jean my stuff sometimes seems to take the long way around too, maybe something to do with being in a rural area.
Please remember everyone to keep an eye on your seedlings ...watch out for bugs and don't forget once you get your seedling up that if the seed is still enclosing the cot leaves ...you need to mist that seed head so it remains soft and the seedling can shuck off that seed case. If the case remains hard the leaves may grow and be unable to push through the case and it can chop the head off the seedling.(repeating this for new growers).
With very special seeds if I know I will be too busy to watch and mist I plant each seed into a plastic cup and enclose the cup in a plastic bag after watering ...this will keep the seed head moist and also get the seed sprouting quickly.Check every couple of days and mist if the head feels dry.
Right now we need to be squishing the 28 spotted lady birds before they can lay eggs and have a good look for tiny snails/slugs and those rotten green grubs.
Happy Friday! |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 29, 2009
06:26 PM Post #7221563
| Alistair, just a small question for you, What's it like in Nowra?
My son & grandson are moving to Bomaderry in a few weeks.
Hel
Its OK! |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 29, 2009
06:43 PM Post #7221618
| Chrissy: "I think it's only floral registered names not trademarks".
I don't think one can technically use a trademarked name/word for anything, at least not without the permission of the trademark owner. I don't imagine there would be much fuss with a Brugmansia, unless it got into wide circulation in the nursery trade, when eyebrows (and hackles!) might be raised. Just how thrilled manufacturers of food (Iced Vo Vo) and medicine/health product (Berocca) would be by an association of their product with a poisonous plant, I don't know LOL. You might be able to get away with Brugmansia 'Vo Vo', though... |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 29, 2009
07:47 PM Post #7221895
| Thanks for clearing that up for us Alistair ...how could I have forgotten the Krispy Kreme fight over the use of a similar name to Iced Vo Vo ...trust me to pick an icon with a history of dispute already.
What a shame! I was looking forward to calling one Iced Vo Vo down the track.
So in essence if there is a Trade Mark don't try to use that name or one too similar ...Krispy Kreme used *Iced Dough Vo* and still got into trouble.
|
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 29, 2009
08:04 PM Post #7221960
| Thanks re 'Clementine', but all I did was grow it!
I whipped it in for registration in case it got established in a certain person's sales list with "My" in the name!!
Brian, basically anyone can name anything they like: there are no rules about plant quality. I think comparison's with overseas cultivars can be useful as an aspiration if nothing else. Monika Gottschalk produces the best in the world (IMO) - of course there are some lovely US cvs as well (many descended from Monika's). But the practical comparison is with what is available in Australia, which can be done by looking at sellers' sites and in this forum.
Things are very early on here of course, but, just speaking for myself, I reject about 95% of seedlings I raise because they just look like 'ordinary Brugmansias'. Nevertheless some crosses do produce a good percentage of interesting seedlings. On the other hand if any seedling is resistant to broad mites (the worst of all pests) I keep it almost regardless of what it looks like and then use it for breeding!
I think a key thing is to set a goal. Then consider what cross might achieve it (either in one generation, or think ahead to the next), make the cross, and then chuck anything that doesn't meet or approach the goal (unless by luck you get something outstanding that's aside from the goal).
For instance, I wanted to make a BRIGHT pink double, so I started by crossing 'Knightii' (the original source of the double characteristic) with 'Meroo Totty' (a very bright pink seedling of 'Pink Panther' x 'Ecuador Pink'). The result was about 50 seedlings all whites of which about half were double (as expected). I chucked all the singles and all the doubles except two which had interesting form (one semi-shredded corollas, the other with very long flowers and much-extended inner corollas). I assume these, though white, carry the recessive pink gene. I then crossed these with 'Lipstick' which has intense pink, firm and quite heat-resistant flowers with long tendrils. I expect half this generation to be pink, half white, half single (whether white or pink) and half to be double (ditto): i.e. roughly a quarter of them will be double pinks (assuming the double characteristic follows simple mendelian inheritance). I again only raised about 50 seedlings from these crosses (planted out yesterday!), so I expect only about 12 to be pink doubles, and I can only hope to be lucky enough to get a good double pink out of it!!
Of course some spontaneous crosses produce wonderful results too (look at Wayne's 'Coral Reef', 'Sister Bertrille' and 'Mea Culpa' - Wayne will correct me if these were the result of deliberate crossing!! Apologies if they were!).
|
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 29, 2009
08:32 PM Post #7222071
| Edited to say: I need to read the post properly!
Fascinating stuff, Alistair.
This message was edited Oct 30, 2009 10:33 AM |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 29, 2009
09:52 PM Post #7222332
| I think wayne mean't that it was "your" Clementine as apposed to another "different" brug with a similar name.
We know you are the seedling parent, ...seedling parents are very important, lots of effort and worry involved.
I am only the seedling parent of Fire Fighter Angel ...I consider these adopted Brugmansias very special, but like most "mum" and "dads" I can hardly wait to have cross of my own bloom ...it's getting close.
As we have discussed before this is why the grandparents are so important ...
Alistair I hope your Pink Doubles aren't far away ...how very exciting. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 29, 2009
09:56 PM Post #7222342
| Repeated post deleted
This message was edited Oct 30, 2009 12:07 PM
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 29, 2009
09:59 PM Post #7222353
| Geez, all the 'failed' posts got thru ...
This message was edited Oct 30, 2009 12:06 PM
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 29, 2009
09:59 PM Post #7222357
| Deleted again. Alas, can't delete the pic. Sorry, folks ...
This message was edited Oct 30, 2009 12:07 PM
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 29, 2009
10:01 PM Post #7222360
| Here are Chrissy's Glasshouse Angel x Butterbomb seedlings, all sown on 7 August. The large one germinated sometime in Aug (with another from that batch) and was potted up in early Oct with the original seedling mix. Sometime this month, the other two germinated. So that's 4 out of 5 that have germinated.
The Butterbomb x Glasshouse Angel seeds, in comparison, were sown on 7 Aug and germinated in Aug all together (4 out of 5 of them too) ...
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 29, 2009
10:03 PM Post #7222365
| I often wonder when the seeds from the same pod ...treated the same way ...germinate sometimes weeks apart, reflect the different mix of genes in the seed.
I find it all a very fascinating subject.
thanks for showing the picture. Good work I hope they make beautiful babies for you ...great genes in there no matter what. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 29, 2009
10:15 PM Post #7222397
| Will be interesting to see if this difference in germination times reflects any difference in gene inheritance reflected in the final blooms ... just have to wait another year and a half to find out (barring disease, pests and pets)! |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 30, 2009
01:08 AM Post #7222874
| 'Musketeer' - Thank you Chrissy. Looking happier in this pic than first flush when cold.
Thanks Alistair for your very clear notes and advice. Also your kind words concerning my first Brugs. Yes, you are correct, they were field pollinated. I just grew the seeds and discarded the ordinary. It would seem that 'Aztec Gold' and 'Pink Panther' are good pod parents. My guess is that the aurea cv. one we think might be the same as 'GHA' is the pollen parent.
I am waiting for 'Coral Reef' to bloom before I take some cuttings. At this stage it seems a small grower. Once I get it into the ground, all shall be revealed. Only one of four cuttings struck from last season. Perhaps the next batch of cuttings will do better.
Chrissy, the "YOUR" reference to Alistair's 'Clementine' was a little cryptic, sorry. Earlier in Dmail I had alerted A. to the fact that a certain person was referring to the plant as "My Clementine'!
Again, a very big thank you to members here who have been so generous in their giving of plants and knowledge.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 30, 2009
01:11 AM Post #7222878
| 'Coral Reef' - last season. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 30, 2009
01:14 AM Post #7222879
| As a potted plant..
Has been potted up, since this pic. I will place out in the garden after flowering.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 30, 2009
01:22 AM Post #7222886
| I've just been heaving dolomite and dynamic lifter about the place to prepare the places for your cvs Wayne. Knackered!
You sent them (v. kindly!) before they were named. There is:
Pink Panther x unknown, white - I assume this is Sr Bertrille??
Ditto, orange - is this Mea Culpa???
And a third (the dogs ate the label!), but as I recall it was Aztec Gold x unknown and had "pink/orange" on the label - = Coral Reef???
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
01:37 AM Post #7222904
| If you could spare a minute after all that hard work, what would you expect from Butter Bomb (your master piece) x Glass House Angel noid. Would 50% be various shades of yellow/orange.
wayne your angels look wonderful ...
|
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 30, 2009
01:51 AM Post #7222914
| Is there a pic of GHA somewhere?? I'm not sure what it is...
edited to add: sorry Jean I only just saw your post about possibly naming it. If something has been released without an established cultivar name, it can potentially be named by anyone, but it is a good thing to check as far as possible that it hasn't been named before and just sold without its name. That can be quite difficult!
This message was edited Oct 30, 2009 4:57 PM |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
01:56 AM Post #7222919
| Sorry I thought you knew what it looked like ...to me a fairly good aurea 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
01:58 AM Post #7222920
| and 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:03 AM Post #7222923
| It varies from pale lemon to a hot orange depending on the weather 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:07 AM Post #7222929
| finally 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 30, 2009
02:09 AM Post #7222930
| yes looks like pure aurea. I think this is 'Golden Butter'.
I would expect 100% in shades of yellow, as both parents are yellow. 'Butter Bomb' has another ?pure yellow aurea as one of its parents ('Bert' or 'Goldenes Kornett'), so you are crossing an aurea with son-of-aurea. I think you will get quite a lot of variation in flower size and shape.
There is a downside to using 'Golden Butter' though. It is the one of 2 cvs in Brugmansia Sect. Brugmansia (i.e. the non-arborea/sanguinea/vulcanicola group) that I know of in Aus that is not virus tolerant. Once it is infected with CDV it has unsightly symptoms year-round. It may pass this on to its offspring (I don't know!). The same is true of 'Chloe' which is almost identical to GB in flower and leaf but with slightly larger flowers.
This message was edited Oct 30, 2009 5:10 PM |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:10 AM Post #7222932
| It has very good pollen and every cross I have made with GHA has been successful ...well 99%.
It would be wonderful to have it called Glass House Angel if it isn't a recognised aurea. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:13 AM Post #7222934
| Yes I have read of aureas being prone to virus and that is why this one is so good ...no sign of virus at at all after 2 years.
Maybe living in a glasshouse all those decades kept it untainted.
Do you know where Golden Butter came from? |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:18 AM Post #7222937
| Thankyou for your answer ...hopefully Butter Bomb may offer some sort of resistance to the virus ...I know that the aurea may downsize the bloom.One thing I think is sure ...that wonderful fragrance will be there.
Might have some 6 points too.
I am looking forward to everyone's babies blooming in a year or two. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:23 AM Post #7222939
| Thinking about it ...wouldn't it be good if it passed virus free genes down the line, probably too wishful but ...you never know.
cestrum there you are ...you were guessing it was Golden Butter. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
08:44 AM Post #7223283
| Something to love!
http://www.engelstrompeten.de/garten.html
over Saturday morning coffee. |
tropicalsydney
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
10:09 AM Post #7223501
| They are gorgeous.
You mentioned strokeable leaves, are the new leaves on OSD like this? |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:45 PM Post #7224211
| Alistair, yes, 'Sr. Bertrille' and 'Mea Culpa'. Both from 'Pink Panther' x noid
The other one is not 'Coral Reef', but from the same pod. 'Aztec Gold' x noid (probably aurea). I will hunt up a pic.
Glad to hear you are making room for some more!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 30, 2009
02:57 PM Post #7224238
| Here is that plant Alistair, my file note below. #1 is 'Coral Reef'. This plant is only know as #8.
#8 ‘Aztec Gold’ x noid (same pod as #1)
170309
Yellow flower, much the same as pod parent.
180309
Turned pink. Similar to #’s 1, 6 & 7 . A bit larger.
Shared with Alistair and Chrissy
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
77sunset
Merino
Australia
October 30, 2009
04:36 PM Post #7224528
| Thank you Alistair , for the info on Glass House Angel's possible name of 'Golden Butter'. I will keep it as GHA noid with their ID nos. I use in my file, but add your info to my notes. I have seen no sign of any problems with it down here. The weather seems not to bother it much whether hot or cold. Of course , a lot of the leaves yellowed and dropped in early spring as did all the other angels. Probably due to the long cold spell we have here . There are buds and new growth now. I have one in the ground this year and the other still in its pot. They are both growing very similar so far. The color does come out a little paler than Chrissy's in the cool weather . Picture is from last May.
Chrissy, it will be fun to see what the offspring turn out like with the same gene pool there.
Jean.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
05:11 PM Post #7224645
| Whatever it's name jean in my mind and this garden it will always be jean's Glass house Angel. I love it dearly.
Did you see the lovely slideshow in that Brugmansia website I posted above ...isn't it lovely?Ok we don't understand the language but we sure can enjoy stunning pictures.
See how the Brugmansias are in pots so they can be taken inside in the winter ...aren't we lucky. Those gardens are so well behaved unlike the triffid jungle growth that most of us enjoy.
|
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 30, 2009
07:43 PM Post #7225143
| Thanks Wayne.. yes I remember now it did have #8 on the label!
I am a little doubtful that Coral Reef and siblings are x aurea, as the calyx seems to be slit on one side in both CR and the other one you have posted a pic of. That characteristic only comes with versicolor heritage. I wonder if it hasn't been pollinated with the old apricot??? or a versicolor??? or a pink with versicolor in the background?? |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 30, 2009
08:22 PM Post #7225272
| Here I am, indeed ... sadly, my Golden Butter is the most pest-susceptible brug I have. But I just strip the affected leaves and it grows out fresh clean ones. Inevitably, they get attacked again, so I strip them again. And on it goes. The GHA flower looks at least as good if not better than GB, so perhaps that's the one we should be growing? I've sent out cuttings of GB to several people--maybe they should discard it in favour of GHA? No point in keeping an inferior cultivar going when there's a better one available, to grow and breed from ...? |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 30, 2009
08:51 PM Post #7225379
| Thanks Alistair. That information narrows it down. I cannot access ABADS to check on parentage of other cvs growing nearby 'Aztec Gold' at the time of pollination.
Apart from the old apricot, which you have confirmed as having versicolor heritage, we had:
'Murchasan Pink'
'Ecuador Pink'
'Pink Panther'
'Bucks Fizz'
old double white (B. knightii)
Do any of the above have versicolor genes?
Thanks Alistair, it would be great to narrow it down further. I am hoping that it is old apricot, if the recurrent blooming gene is inherited by CR and siblings we will be on to a good thing!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 30, 2009
09:06 PM Post #7225440
| Cestrum, I think there's actually three clones here, all virtually identical but with *slight* differences in flower size: in increasing order of flower size - an un-named(?) one, 'Golden Butter' and 'Chloe'.
The history of the first two is unknown (at least to me); the last is a recent cv, but they must be genetically related I would have thought. I suspect they derive from an original seed distribution from Colombia by the ethnobotanist R.E. Schultes in the 1960's. An almost identical plant was illustrated in Curtis's Bot. Mag. in 1966 - it was raised from seed sent to Kew by Schultes.
I have had them growing side by side here for comparison, but I have discarded them all because of the virus problem. Though they are all very pretty when healthy, I decided not to use any of them for breeding because of the virus weakness.
The one here in Oz that resembles 'Bert' and/or 'Goldenes Kornett' is (IMO) a better aurea to use for breeding. It has superb foliage, longer tendrils and is virus tolerant. It is a more robust plant than any of the above 3 and tends to produce very vigorous offspring. I crossed it with 'Ecuador Pink' and some of the seedlings were about 15ft tall before they Y-ed!!
Note: the "Goldenes Kornett" offered by Sacred Garden Brugmansias (and claimed to be a "new release" - 'Goldenes Kornett' was actually introduced into circulation about 30 years ago) is not the right plant: it is not even an aurea!
This message was edited Oct 31, 2009 12:07 PM |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia
(Zone 9b)
October 30, 2009
09:26 PM Post #7225520
| Wayne, as far as I can see, the pointed slit versicolor-type calyx is a dominant characteristic, meaning that a possible parent passing it on must itself actually show it. I say this because first generation aurea (toothed) x versicolor (pointed and slit) always have pointed slit calyces (ditto the reverse cross). Likewise First generation suaveolens (toothed) x versicolor always have pointed slit calyces (ditto the reverse cross)
That would exclude BF and PP as possible parents.
|
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 30, 2009
10:40 PM Post #7225816
| Again thanks Alistair, that is two down. Three to go regarding parentage! :)
Apologies to all here on "breeding"...
Having grown up with Brugs and never ever seeing seed pods on our old double white, I was amazed once the pods formed on the new imports to our garden here.
I had to grow the seeds! :)
Beginners luck, I found a couple of nice seedlings.
Those random pods intregue me despite science! :)
I am still sorting appropriate growing space (nursery) for new Brugs. I have secured a "green house" for seedlings. Now I need "field space" for growing on. A possible site has come up, so keeping fingers crossed.
Potted plants.
However viewing the beaut pix link Chrissy sent, the challange here is way open! :)
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
October 30, 2009
11:04 PM Post #7225900
| No need to apologise, Wayne: anyone reading this brug forum is just as interested in the topic as you are. Like you, I'd never before seen a brugmansia seedpod, yet in the past year I must have had about a hundred of them! (Not all had viable seeds, but that's a learning experience in itself.) I must say, you seem to have been incredibly lucky in getting those lovely hybrids ...
As for Golden Butter, I've decided to wait until my GHA cutting flowers to compare the scent of GHA with GB, because that's the only possible aspect of GB that might not be inferior to GHA. If the scent of GHA is at least as good as that of GB, then I intend to pull out my GB plants and replace them with GHA.
Alistair, you wrote that 'The one here in Oz that resembles 'Bert' and/or 'Goldenes Kornett' is (IMO) a better aurea to use for breeding. It has superb foliage, longer tendrils and is virus tolerant. It is a more robust plant than any of the above 3 and tends to produce very vigorous offspring.' Are you referring to Glasshouse Angel? Or some other aurea? |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
11:27 PM Post #7225975
| Hi wayne please no sorry here ...this is what we are all here for ...to learn,
I remember being scared to ask a question when I was starting out ...I couldn't believe we could make seed pods ourselves!
I want anyone here to please feel free to ask ''silly" questions as well as the technical ones.
It's all about the learning as we go and I want to thank both wayne and alistair for filling in the kind of technical input that we ordinary gardeners may not have knowledge of.
cestrum the GHA/GB??? plant here has a beautiful aurea fragrance,
I would think it is disease and virus free *at this point anyway* I would say to anyone growing it to grow it a bit lean and mean,I think that may help it stay strong ...lush might not be a good thing in this one (just speaking from instinct and a two year experience of growing it.)
I still have chloe and she is in heavy shade ...I plan to see If growing her "hard" may make a difference to how she copes ...she grows lovely fresh leaves and after a while they start to "go off" a bit ...funny how the bloom is beautiful and untouched by the virus ... I wonder if Chloe is out there by any other name ...anyone recognise her?
I will strike some cuttings and grow them 1/2 an acre away from the rest.
I won't use it in breeding and I haven't shared her with anyone, but I love her and she can dwell here far away from her friends, I want to see if there is anything I can do for her to save her somehow.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
11:32 PM Post #7225991
| I do love her ...what a pity about the virus thing 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 30, 2009
11:35 PM Post #7225997
| She finishes a golden toffee sort of colour 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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77sunset
Merino
Australia
October 31, 2009
12:05 AM Post #7226071
| Alistair, Wayne , Chrissy and Cestrum. I love reading all this interesting info on the plants we love so much. All I know for sure is that my GHA noid (Glasshouse Angel ) is beautiful, smells heavenly and came originally via a catalogue as a versiclor yellow. I see no signs of any virus etc. The bugs like a nibble or three but there seems to be no other problems thus far. This is of course , only my second season with the flowering. Already the buds are growing overnight .
Chrissy, sad news. I lost one of my two plants of 'The Chief' cross. It was being eaten and the leaves went all limp then fell off. I never worried much as they all had some leaves yellow and fall. It just never grew any back and when I looked at the trunk, it was soft so I threw it out. The sibling is very healthy .
Jean. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
October 31, 2009
12:15 AM Post #7226103
| Awe sorry to hear that jean ...just for the future I always hold on to any seedling that may look dead ...they have a wonderful habit of popping back up from the roots ...so if that plant is still in the rubbish bin ...give it another chance. I saved some "dead" ones that had been unwatered and blown over while I was away. If there are roots then there is still a chance ...
If worse comes to worse and they it's gone ...there are lots of beautiful ones in the future to look forward to.
hugs
chrissy |
WayneCarter
NW Sydney NSW
Australia
October 31, 2009
12:17 AM Post #7226108
| Cestrum and Chrissy, great notes. Thank you.
We have a long way to go!
However great memories to share of a wonderful Genus.
Growing up with "special plants" gives us a bit of "edge" to share!
Or might that read...
"A great hedge to share" ! :)
As seen from Alistair's plantings. |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
October 31, 2009
01:16 AM Post #7226272
| G'Day All, What is the full name of "The Virus" and is it vector spread or only by propagation? If a vector is involved what is it? What are the symptoms and effects?
If it is only spread by propagation has heat therapy been used to try and free good plants of it?
Planted the new seeds but none up yet. I did look so perhaps tomorrow?
I liked the link above showing the potted Brugs it shows me what does work and save space. I wonder if the lawn is essential to keep up the humidity or does it just grow there any way. Seeing as I'm not biased I thought the other flowers were pretty good too.
Brian |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
November 01, 2009
12:12 AM Post #7229071
| Patience brian ...
I think the virus is the Columbian Datura one ...I don't think there is a cure, but I could be wrong ...I think it is spread by sap suckers.
I know the heat treatment works with some diseases ...I can't speak for a virus.
Someone else knows better than I do ...I know some ardent Brugmansia growers are working very hard on various cures.
Lots of plants have viruses ...brugs are pretty tough, I think in places where they have to withstand overwintering (because of the freezing it may make the plants less able to fight off various problems). |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
November 01, 2009
04:34 AM Post #7229290
| Follow us over to summer 09 ...
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1052663/ |
