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Perennials: Hellebores for 2010 - Whos doing them?

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BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 12, 2009
5:56 PM

Post #7267324

Ok, I admit, I have never tried these, so ok, tell me about them, show me the bloomers, bout the earliest thing to bloom in my zone is a snowdrop long about March and if I am realllly lucky the end of Feb.

Whats their care, whats their pests? Where do they like to grow? I know absolutely NOTHING about these plants other than they are really kind of pretty!

Would they make for a houseplant? (See, I told you, I knew nothing! NOTHING!)
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 12, 2009
6:25 PM

Post #7267431

I only have 2 colors

White

Thumbnail by bigred
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 12, 2009
6:28 PM

Post #7267446

And...
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 12, 2009
6:28 PM

Post #7267447

burgundy...can't find picture of open flower

Thumbnail by bigred
Click the image for an enlarged view.

bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 12, 2009
6:32 PM

Post #7267464

trays of babies to be potted up next week

Thumbnail by bigred
Click the image for an enlarged view.

perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

November 12, 2009
6:35 PM

Post #7267474

I'd call them easy and pretty foolproof, but they do take a long time to get to flowering size - maybe 3rd year. A good shade plant. I've heard that seeds don't have a long shelf-life, but plants will self-seed in multitudes, and baby plants will most generally start right under the mother plant. I usually move them when they're 1-2 inches tall. They ARE one of the earliest bloomers.

edited for sp.

This message was edited Nov 12, 2009 1:37 PM
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 12, 2009
6:47 PM

Post #7267526

Yup,self sewn seedling are what those babies in the trays are.

I had a clump of the white about 8-10 yrs old that look spectacular this year but I made the mistake of letting my garden club come in and dig some perennials that desperately needed thinning. I told them...even pulled back the leave on the mother palnt to show them the seedlings and said"dig up as many seedlings as you want" I didn't know until the next day,they dug up about 2/3 of the mother plant. Never again will I let anyone in my gardens w/ a shovel unsupervised. I have a 1 1/2 acres of yard and I was on the other side of the house w/ part of the group...ARGH!...and I grew it form seed...ARGH AGAIN!
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

November 12, 2009
7:00 PM

Post #7267582

I definitely understand that AARGH. You were so generous and they were so thoughtless. Well I guess they'll learn their lesson by not being invited back unsupervised. Too bad I'm not nearby. I'm very good at thinning (licks drool from corners of mouth)!
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 12, 2009
7:12 PM

Post #7267612

Some japanese painted ferns"Ursla's Red"and "Burgundy Bliss" went missing too and clump of dwarf varieigated miscanthus"Morning Light" that would probably be sold as a 10 gallon in the nursery all but a small clump you could circle w/your thumb and forefinger was dug up. Now mind you I'm not saying they were being devious as I did say dig out as much ostrich fern as you want and it was growing close to JPF and there was an all green miscanthus I told them to take and a lot of them are new gardeners so they probably just didn't know the difference between one or the other...but still...Never again!
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 12, 2009
7:12 PM

Post #7267613

Learned that lesson long time ago. sometimes if you dont draw them a picture or hover over them.. well the big ARRRGH happens.

I figure if I gotta supervise them so close, then I may as well do it my self.

Well, those are nice looking P! So is now the best time to plant them in the garden or what? I have a spot in the woods I can try them. But I think I best not plant them by Goliath! Course Goliath might be my cure all to the party wanting to dig them up. Goliath is my giantuous Poison Ivy plant. I keep him around for grins. Dang plant gotta be 50 years old, least 35-40 foot tall if not a day or as old as that old oak hes leaching off of.

So, ok, could I winter them in a pot? Outside?
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 12, 2009
7:18 PM

Post #7267628

They'll bloom around Christmas into the new year but it'll be late May-early June before seeds are ripe for the picking but I usually just let them drop then dig up seedlings later when they have about 6 true leaves. There evergreen and very cold hardy so you wouldn't ahve to pamper them.

Seedlings in picture are '07 seeds taht self sewed. I didn't even to bother to pick '09 seeds so I probably have a bunch of seedlings rght now.

Well,that's what I get for trying to get out of some digging but it won't happen again.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 13, 2009
12:18 AM

Post #7268545

It might be different here, but this is a great time to plant them here. Ours don't typically bloom until January . . .

Thumbnail by katie59
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 13, 2009
1:54 AM

Post #7268817

katie, thats gorgeous~
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 13, 2009
2:01 AM

Post #7268849

The Hellebores seem to do really well here and I have way too many of them - many that haven't been taken out of their pots yet. I will finish planting them this winter.

This is a picture of the buds on my established plant in January. The cold and the wet didn't even seem to phase them.

Thanks for your comment on the picture. I just discovered the macro on my camera. This is actually from a Hellebore at my brother and SILs.

Thumbnail by katie59
Click the image for an enlarged view.

katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 13, 2009
2:04 AM

Post #7268855

Not such a great picture. This is Heronswood Kingston Cardinal (which I got in Kingston). I got one blossom last year - I'm looking forward to more this year.

Thumbnail by katie59
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

November 13, 2009
11:35 AM

Post #7269542

I don't know what this one is. I think it's a pretty common one, but I like it. Easy.

Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

November 13, 2009
11:37 AM

Post #7269545

And I grow h. foetidus just for the foliage. The flowers are more bizarre than pretty.

Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 13, 2009
12:12 PM

Post #7269585

Like the foliage on the h.foetidus.I'm big into foliage so a plant has more than one feature to offer in the landscape. I'd like some of the ones with silver foliage and the Gold Bullion if I thought it would do well in my zone. I've read some accounts that it doesn't like our heat and humidity.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 13, 2009
2:44 PM

Post #7269993

Neat!

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 13, 2009
2:57 PM

Post #7270039

I like the foetidus as well as the single flower type.
I was given many last season and they bloomed into late summer.
I cant wait for spring '10
This is a black hellebore

Thumbnail by ge1836
Click the image for an enlarged view.

katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 13, 2009
8:22 PM

Post #7270971

My foetidus keeps rotting - I think it needs lighter soil and more sun, maybe than what I typically have. Corsican hellebores can take full sun at my place (PNW full sun isn't as harsh as some areas), and seem to be pretty tough.

There is definitely a difference between them.
Pamgarden
Central, VA
(Zone 7b)

November 13, 2009
9:20 PM

Post #7271131

Last year I saw some mature stands of white, pink, and green hellebores in a garden and was really taken by them. I ordered some online, which seemed pricy at $50 for three 4" pots. They certainly didn't flower in 2009, but the deer didn't bother them, and I did notice several weeks ago that they looked like they had settled in nicely. I hope they flower in 2010. The pictures here remind me why I wanted some. Pam
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 13, 2009
9:49 PM

Post #7271227

The new cultivars can be pricey. But now you can find them at places like Home Depot and Lowe's. And they aren't that hard to germinate if you have nice, cool soil and a cold period. Looking forward to seeing your pictures!

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 13, 2009
10:12 PM

Post #7271285

this was a Mothersday Present to me from me.
iT WAS IN A GALLON POT $30.00

Thumbnail by ge1836
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 14, 2009
12:54 AM

Post #7271804

Oh Lord, Ima gonna hate to see wht Alsip asks on them! Prepare me someone dare I faint!

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 14, 2009
10:10 AM

Post #7272784

Whats Alsip?
I want more and more Cyclamin
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 15, 2009
3:08 AM

Post #7275148

One of my fav upper end nurserys.. High priced and lovelies...you cannot walk out of there spending something and nothing is cheap.
guamsorbit
Emerald Hills, CA
(Zone 9b)

November 15, 2009
3:50 AM

Post #7275255

Well, I have managed to kill off a couple of these so I guess I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong...they haven't been 'easy' for me. Mine were potted in MG potting mix and kept in a partial sun location on my covered patio. I thought maybe I'd overwatered but if water and cold don't bother them any idea what I'm doing wrong? Too much sun? I have a few new ones that I just got and I'd like to avoid making the same mistakes. Is there a chance the foliage just died back to the root ball and it will come back or should I just pull the whole thing up?

thanks for any advice,
d

This message was edited Nov 14, 2009 8:46 PM
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 15, 2009
4:42 AM

Post #7275387

There definitely is a chance they will come back. If anything, I'd make sure that the plant has good moisture and good drainage and stays as cool as possible most of the time.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 15, 2009
5:02 AM

Post #7275422

I have several varieities, including the Kingston cardinal. None of mine ever bloom before March. There are so many different varieities of Hellebores, that there are surely many to fit everyone's different situation.

Pine Knot Farms sets up a triple booth every year here at the Hardy Plant Society's annual sale. They bring only Hellebores to the sale, a few hundred varieties. The booth is just about the most popular one at the show, always packed 4 and 5 people deep.
guamsorbit
Emerald Hills, CA
(Zone 9b)

November 15, 2009
6:13 AM

Post #7275531

That's encouraging! Thanks Katie...

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 15, 2009
10:34 AM

Post #7275660

So Alsip is a local for you?
Not an online mailorder nursery?
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

November 15, 2009
2:43 PM

Post #7275985

Here are a bunch of h. foetidus seedlings I noticed yesterday.

Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 15, 2009
3:04 PM

Post #7276057

These are second year Fotidus's from Deer Repellent plants

Thumbnail by ge1836
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 15, 2009
4:02 PM

Post #7276191

Alsip, huh? They do tend to be over-priced but do carry some of the newer, trendier plants. Usually, their plants are pretty healthy. For me, it's a local thing - IL and IN - unless there are more out there.
I'm patiently waiting for some 'Sunshine Selections' to reach blooming size. Got a good deal on them but am anxious to see what colors the flowers are. Not sure if they're far enough along to bloom this coming spring but certainly by the year after.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 15, 2009
6:00 PM

Post #7276524

Barry Glick "Sunshine Selections"?
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 15, 2009
8:19 PM

Post #7276839

Like CindyMzone5 said, Alsip is a local thing.. Illinois, Indiana.. big outfit, lots of stuff, pretty pricey, but they also have some good deals too. The house plants actually are quite reasonable but then size too can be relative. You really cant bark too much about the quality as it is hard to find a "mangy" plant. They do very good maintenance on them for presentation. Im not gonna pay their prices on the perennials though. I will sooner start it by seed myself before paying that deep. And I do feel the annuals prices are a bit overboard too. But they do get some nice different plants unlike Lowes, Home Depot, K mart or those box places. To me the big box are the same old same old stuff everywhere. I like looking for the little mom and pops! They always have something there the boxes dont. (Mainly service, but the plants are different too) Just my opinion. I dont mind paying more when the service comes with it but yano I have been in some nurserys that well one for instance that well, they barked how much variety they had and this that and the other thing and I went in to get some plant advise and was flat out told well, I didnt buy it there and so they could not help me.. um, pardon me, I did not want any replacement, just advice and that was a real turn off. Guess given advice on care was not their virtue. Never went back.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 15, 2009
8:26 PM

Post #7276863

I like mom and pops too. We have a nice garden center here where I bought th mothersday present for myself.Bristols
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 16, 2009
12:53 AM

Post #7277664

bigred- yep - Barry Glick. I've always been intimidated by Hellebores and they cost a lot! Thought I'd try the 1 yo seedlings and see if I have the aptitude to grow them. Have H. orientalis from a gardening friend back in '94 that's never been moved from it's original spot by a concrete wall. It has multiplied slowly over the years and I moved about 18 seedlings this year from it.
BB - where's the rude garden center so I never go there? You're right - Alsip doesn't "do" mangy plants but I'll only buy there what I can't find elsewhere. Also agree about the big box stores but have gotten some nice bargains on $3 starter shrubs at Lowe's (Northern Lights azaleas, Pieris, etc).
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 16, 2009
3:15 PM

Post #7278876

Barry had a huge sale one year on hellebores seedlings. I missed out on it 'cause I'd already shot my budget.

I need to go tell Barry I have a new email. Haven't heard from him since my arkansas.net addy bit the dust.

Peggy
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 16, 2009
3:51 PM

Post #7279005

Peggy - Got the Hellebore seedlings in spring of '08. Appears that Barry runs specials pretty consistently. I do get the emails on new specials about every other month.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 16, 2009
6:57 PM

Post #7279594

I need to give him my new addy.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 17, 2009
12:10 AM

Post #7280624

Red, run, dont walk! LOL!

Hey, got the GEO today.. thanks!
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 17, 2009
11:01 AM

Post #7281785

Welcome BB. I think their prices have been the best of all the ones I get. Got Harris catalog yesterday but I barely cracked it open because they're so stinking expensive.

I just d-mailed you link to Germania. You have to fill out a form for one of theirs.

I was rummaging around in the GH yesterday morning and came across a start of a unkown var. pink hellebores I trade for this year. It'll be 2-3 years before I'll see blooms from it.

Got all the hellebores potted up and tucked back into the greenhouse in a brighter location for the winter. If they get big enough,I'll take them to market next March.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 17, 2009
12:05 PM

Post #7281858

Thanks Red.. you got something from me too.

I have another catalog you might like.. I will have to get the right spelling on it. SO watch yer D's!

So when do you think I might see these heelbores in my nurserys up here?
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 17, 2009
12:19 PM

Post #7281889

I just emailed Barry's head...we already ya-ya at each other like it hasn't been 2 yrs since we talked...surprised he remembered me...offered me 6 acres of hellebores...LOL don't think I need that many.

I saw that "something"...aren't you sweet. I'm going to send you an early xmas present next week...or maybe it should be called a Turkeyday present.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 17, 2009
12:28 PM

Post #7281908

LOL! Well.. um um um! *g*! (_)? (_)? =^)
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 17, 2009
12:33 PM

Post #7281921

I gotta see what he has in the way of bundles and if the price is right...who I can rob to get some.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 17, 2009
2:05 PM

Post #7282178

Come to think of it, bigred, I haven't gotten an email from Barry in ages. I bought one of his bundles about 6 years ago. I think the hellebores were 1.00 each, and I had to get 100. Every single one of those thrived, and they were absolutely gorgeous. And back then hellebores were selling for big prices, like 20.00 a gallon for the un named ones. Thanks for mentioning Barry.

Pine Knot is wonderful also.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 17, 2009
2:07 PM

Post #7282189

polly,
I've seen the Pine Knot varities. too
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 17, 2009
2:11 PM

Post #7282213

I'd love to get a bundle of those doubles out of Barry.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
3:53 PM

Post #7282536

I purchased these "Southern Belles" from Pine Knots this spring:

http://www.pineknotfarms.com/pkf sb.jpg

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 17, 2009
3:53 PM

Post #7282541

beautiful picture
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
4:00 PM

Post #7282561

Yes, Ge, but I'll wait and see what they look like when blooming. I planted some Hellebores 4 years ago. It took 3 years for them to bloom and when they did, I hated them!!! Out they went!!
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 17, 2009
4:13 PM

Post #7282605

The ones from Pine Knots will look just like the picture. They are wonderful people, and the plants are always true to name.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
4:14 PM

Post #7282611

Great!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 17, 2009
4:57 PM

Post #7282769

stormyla - Great choice! I've read that it's difficult to predict the flower colors until they actually bloom. I'm hoping that I'll be happy with my 'Sunshine' choice. Is it true that Hellebores like slightly alkaline soil? I've tried to keep mine in the vicinity of anything concrete. With the 18 or so seedlings that I also moved this year, I have plenty for the moment. Just hope I get some great colors from 'Sunshine'.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
5:09 PM

Post #7282806

Cindy, I'm not sure about the soil.

Here's another one I planted from Edelweiss Perennials, a variegated one H. sternii "Marvelous Marble":

http://www.edelweissperennials.com/largeview.asp?id=161
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

November 17, 2009
5:22 PM

Post #7282843

Regarding the previous experience with a smaller nursery, and the reluctance to give advice because the plant wasn't bought there: it's not the way I would have handled it if I were a nursery owner, and I certainly see the point, but did anyone see theirs?

----- I went in to get some plant advise and was flat out told well, I didn't buy it there and so they could not help me -----
I can only assume that said advice was for a plant from a big box store. As an independent nursery owner, it gives me great pleasure to support big box stores that are putting me out of business. I want to freely give away the only things that set me apart from the boxes, so customers can go and buy for cheap there, and come to me and find out how to grow them for free. It's a great business plan. See how well it is working? I am making money hand over fist.

Besides, I didn't pay to learn this knowledge I freely give out. It all came to me in a dream. I don't have a degree in horticulture and I've only been working in the nursery business for a few months. Surely it isn't worth anything. I don't know why people ask me these questions anyway. Doesn't everyone have these dreams?
---------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone just walk into a lawyer's office, expect free unbiased advice, knowing that they will take it to some other lawyer who will then be paid? How about a free carpet measuring: companies don't freely give you that information so you can take it to a competitor. A landscape architect affiliated with a nursery will not just give his plan free to you so you can take it to a "cheaper" firm do the work, or do it yourself. This is normal daily workings of our society. How are these examples any different from horticultural advice? Just because plant enthusiasts tend to be more giving and less money hungry (or shall we say, oriented), does that mean we should take advantage of them?

There. I said it in a nutshell.

As I said, the original scenario is not the way I would have handled it, if I were the nursery operator, but
We are taking advantage of business owners when we expect advice, but do not patronize their business.


stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
5:40 PM

Post #7282900

Leftwood, A point well made. However, I've also experienced the opposite, when shopping in the MOST expensive 2 local nurseries, I've not been able to get any advice, nor even the correct cultivar names.

But, there are two small local nuseries nearby where I do buy plants and many supplies that are always happy to give information and also to look it up. Consequently, I am a repeat customer there. These folks LOVE their business and really want to spread the joys of gardening. They are also willing to special order plants and shrubs.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 17, 2009
6:41 PM

Post #7283089

Flowers always hang down, its too hard foe me to get into position to photograph.So I let others do it for me
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
6:51 PM

Post #7283118

GE, I know what you mean. My camera has a nifty viewing screen that comes away from the camera and can angle upward, so that I can just reach down and view something low. It's a great feature.

Here's my Kingston Cardinal. It was blooming the first week of April.

Thumbnail by stormyla
Click the image for an enlarged view.

katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 17, 2009
7:23 PM

Post #7283212

And there's always this one: http://www.heronswood.com You pay more, but they do have some very nice stuff.

As somebody who works for Nordstrom, I can only say that giving good service isn't only about the present, but is about the future. I know all sorts of service providers who give some information to the layperson for free. It's free advertising for them. I can tell you that if someone said to me that they couldn't help me because I didn't buy a plant there, I'd make sure I never went to their establishment again - more because I it felt like $$$ was more important to them than gardening and I wouldn't trust any advice from someone who was gardening from that perspective.

I might look for deals from the box stores, but when I need a "fix" and want to look for the most unique cultivars, that's not where I go. I see nurseries as a place to get what the box stores might be selling in 5 years down the road.

Stormyla - great feature on your camera. I don't think I'm familiar with that.

I can see buds on my Hellebores now. And my Hamamelis, as well. Yippee!!
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
7:33 PM

Post #7283247

Lucky you, Katie!! My two Hamamelis didn't survive their first winter. The wind here kills a lot of young trees and shrubs.

Heronswood's plants are very pricey and small, but they all thrive and do exceptionally well. It's always a great place to aquire the unusual.
Now there's a place that loves to talk plants.

We have two giant old expensive nurseries here that don't even want to discuss the plants you're considering buying from them. They become, for me, a good place to view plants that I'll purchase elsewhere, even through mail order.

Katie, My camera is a Sony DSC-H50.
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

November 17, 2009
10:02 PM

Post #7283768

Our local television station did an "On the spot" piece and had bought a shirt that was clearly marked "Target". They attempted to return it to a whole bunch of different retail stores (not Target). Nordstrom was the only one that took it back. Of course, Nordstrom got great PR out of it, plus kudos from the TV station, while at the same time the station made a point to denigrate all the other retail stores for not catering to the stupidity of the customer.

Sorry to mess up your thread. There are always two (or more) sides to an issue. Judgment is never genuine unless one considers all.

This message was edited Nov 17, 2009 4:13 PM
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 17, 2009
10:04 PM

Post #7283774

Thanks, stormyla!
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 17, 2009
10:06 PM

Post #7283779

Leftwood, let me tell you something...

A little FREE HONEST information/advise goes a long way to building clientele whether you are a doctor, a lawyer, a carpet sales person or a landscaper or a PROFESSIONAL WHATEVER. And whats more,
the same HONEST information or advise given with a cheery smile will go even further. And personally I find it is the HONEST
professionals that will give more freely of themselves and of their service and they dont worry about being taken advantage of because THAT is what service is. THAT integrity is what is their business is
and that INTEGRITY is what GROWS their busines. And that is what keeps them in business.

I walked into that nursery KNOWING full well they knew how to grow those plants, after all, that was why I came there in the first place, because I KNEW they KNEW HOW. After all, they did sell them and grow them there too. But to say, BECAUSE I did not buy it from them
they could not help was out of line for such a place that prided themselves in advertiseing, um, hows that go... "Let US HELP YOU WITH ALLLLL your gardening needs." I guess, service, was not part of their picture in HELPING WITH ALL of your garden needs. But I guess you dont get that point.

So much for help, so much for INTEGRITY and so much for advertising. They threw it ALL out the window that day with me. GET MY POINT?

And hey, The minute you walk into any business whether you buy or not YOU ARE PATRONIZING them, even if it is for a brief minute. My time is more valuable than my money. So the patronage to them is my time. But then perhaps Leftwood, your time is of no value. Get my point?

Oh Leftwood, perhaps after the clerk blurted her rudeness I should have handled it this way, I should have runned right up to the counter, scarfed the first one I saw and then bought it. Then walked out the door and come back in and said.. now, what can you tell me about this plant?

DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK she would have had ANY ADVISE? OH, but you said, I did not buy it from you, now I did, now what can you tell me. Oh, I see where this is heading, I get it I get it, put a quarter in the clerk and she will tell me a story. Yeah right, like the ignorance of that day was gonna get any better. LOL! Get real!

-----------------------

Now, can we get back to showing off the hellebores? If Im going to acquire one, I want to know more about them, see more varieties than I have already and well, find out where to get them too.









STORYMYLA - THAT LAST PIC IS GORGEOUS! WHEN did you plant it..
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 17, 2009
10:13 PM

Post #7283795

Our management makes sure to circulate the letters from customers about the unique service stories they encounter at the various Nordstrom stores. The ongoing theme that I see is that the customer was out of his element and the situation was nearly out of control and the Nordstrom employee saved the day. We have lots sales people that make a very good living in part because they have a loyal clientele based on people who were won over by one of these situations. I love to read them.

Basically, the philosophy is that we focus on creating the legitimate exchanges/good customers/good service rather than focusing on avoiding the bad exchanges.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
10:28 PM

Post #7283828

Last week I stopped at a local Nursery, well more of a greenhouse, that was once a real place to go, even for recreational purposes. They had a bunch of perennials out back for half price. I picked up 3 Red Lady Hellebores. All the rest of the lovely plants had been left out knocked over in the wind to dry out. What a shame.
The older gent who ran this once fabulous show place is now gone and his kids have let it run downhill. However, there were still some of the incredible enormous tropicals still there. I plan to go back with my camera next weekend to photo some of them while they are still alive.

I also want to show DSO one of their fabulous Golden Clivia that I would like for Christmas. While I was there, one of the nurserymen gave me 2 really nice cuttings from a colossal 720 degree Begonia. They didn't even have any plants potted up from it and there were hundreds of babies on it. So, I will go back to also get a lovely $85 Christmas gift.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 17, 2009
10:40 PM

Post #7283876

Blossumbuddy, Sorry, didn't see your note down at the bottom of your post. I planted it in the spring of 08. Heronswood/Burpee Fordhook Farm has a Helleborus festival every April with a big Open house. They plant acres of Hellebores for this. They have Hellebores speakers and sell many plants.

Here's a photo of the Fordhook Farms, home of Burpee, owner of Heronswood. It's quite a different set up from the Heronswood on the West Coast. See the Hellebores down at the bottom??

Thumbnail by stormyla
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

November 17, 2009
11:16 PM

Post #7283991

Gosh.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 17, 2009
11:29 PM

Post #7284044

Thanks Stormyla, its gorgeos! The color is stunning.. It really grabs me.
soilsandup
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

November 18, 2009
6:58 AM

Post #7285508

Blossom - fancy seeing you here!!!
Here are some hellebore that I have posted previously on the cut flowers forum. Lenten Rose - purplish pink ones.

Thumbnail by soilsandup
Click the image for an enlarged view.

soilsandup
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

November 18, 2009
7:01 AM

Post #7285513

Here is a H. foetidus. It starts blooming in February here.

Thumbnail by soilsandup
Click the image for an enlarged view.

soilsandup
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

November 18, 2009
7:11 AM

Post #7285518

They both grow here without any special care - no pest, no disease. I have them both in areas with morning sun. The lenten rose reseeds itself if you let the flowers ripen. H. foetidus must multiply easily too because I got a couple of seedlings from someone who was thinning out their plants. The plant shown is one year after planting. And the very best thing about these plants is that since they are early bloomers, they make great cut flowers at a time where there are very few flowers available. In my quest for year round flowers (in zone 9a anyway), they are a great contributor.

Thumbnail by soilsandup
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 18, 2009
10:10 AM

Post #7285605

My plants are new ,both varieties.
I cant wait to see what tis spring brings.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 18, 2009
12:10 PM

Post #7285706

Barry sent me an email on his hellebores. Price is GREAT on his bare root bundles but I don't have any more room in greenhouse another 1000 plants...or even half that.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 18, 2009
2:27 PM

Post #7285960

He didn't offer the 100 bundle? I sure don't want a thousand either. But ik would like another 100.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 18, 2009
2:51 PM

Post #7286037

Ok, I missed it, we all got off on a tangent... are these deer treats? Or could they be used for naturalizers? I am assuming when you say bundles they come bare root? Could they mix and match in a bundle or do they have to be all the same and how big is a bundle? (Guess that would depend on the nursery selling... duh!)

Soils, those are very very lovely...

Ok, now on soil, whats their flavor.. remember mine is sand, for the most part very poor. Generally wet, but I do have some higher ground that is better and could ammend the soil if necessary, but need info. Shade, part or what?
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

November 18, 2009
5:16 PM

Post #7286544

I just went to Barry Glicks site. WOW! Eyepoppers! Is anyone at all concidering doing a co-op. His prices are reasonable, but I need an awful lot. When we left our house in July I was only able to save one plant from my garden. It was a hellebore of my mother's that gets dug up and carted with us where ever we go, I had to leave all my others behind. Here there is absolutely nothing so I have to start from scratch. Anyway, hope we're going to have a co-op.

Yehudith
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 18, 2009
8:37 PM

Post #7287123

stormyla - 'Red Lady' looks gorgeous. Are you still planting? You're a little warmer than me but I gave up about a month ago. Was I the only disillusioned gardener when Burpee purchased Heronswood? I look at their catalog to see what's new but way beyond my budget. Heard Ken Druse on his podcast talking about Klehm's Song Sparrow Nursery in WI - checked out their website but they're pricey too. Was hoping to find a Forestfarm of the midwest.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 19, 2009
12:58 AM

Post #7288003

It was one of the worst days of my life when Heronswood sold out, LOL, so no you're not alone.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 19, 2009
9:56 AM

Post #7289018

I'm still dancing around this offer on the 1000 bareroot. Can you still plant hellebore out this time of year? All my benches are full in the greenhouse and even in a 4 pot in a 15 ct. tray(calculaters not working)that's a LOT of trays but the price is just to tempting.

stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 19, 2009
1:21 PM

Post #7289230

Cindy, I'm still planting bulbs and a few stray plants.

I don't order plants from Heronswood. They have 4 open houses a year, co-sponsored by the Nature Conservancy. The admission funds and a portion of the plant sales prices are benefiting the Conservancy. I buy their plants at these sales.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 19, 2009
1:29 PM

Post #7289253

Cleaning out my seed frig and came across some mystery bulbs. The only thing they can be are jonquils since they don't smell like onions. It's been two years since I dug up and divided my jonquils and if these are some leftovers,they're in surprisenly good shape to have been out of the ground for 2yrs.

I have a patch apx.6ft x1ft of Tete(I never know how to spell this one) and Jetfire I need to dig up and divide...add that to the list of things to do before bad weather sets in...and probably won't get done because the "to do" list is humogus(can't spell that either)
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 19, 2009
1:36 PM

Post #7289273

bigred, I would think in your area you could still plant the hellebores out. They are quite hardy. The ones I got in the bundle I planted in 4" pots. Two years to bloom, but it was a beautiful assortment. Some of the yellows were spectacular, with red on the petals. Could you plant them in four inch pots and overwinter them somewhere outside? Like under some pine trees? That's where I do a lot of my overwintering of newly planted pots.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 19, 2009
3:35 PM

Post #7289568

Hey RED, If yer tossing those mystery bulbs out...chuck those spring bulbs in the mail to me or put them 5 at a time in a gallon pot and dont worry about them. I will take all the dafs, jonqs and spring bulbs other than tulops that I can get! Lemme know he postage afore ya mail!

stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 19, 2009
10:25 PM

Post #7290722

I know that I planted some H. Foetidus this year, but darned if I can figure out where. One of these days, after my beds stabilize, I will have to map the plantings. If you haven't looked at the Hellebores offered by Edelweiss Perennials, you should.

They have a number of their own offerrings. They also have a nice selection of some unusual plants and their plants are very large, healthy and reasonably priced. Their shipping charges are very reasonable too.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 20, 2009
12:37 AM

Post #7291135

I have Edelweiss bookmarked for winter wish lists. I like the foliage on the H. f. Does it need any sun at all or is full shade ok?
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 20, 2009
12:49 AM

Post #7291170

Red.. its 67 trays
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

November 20, 2009
3:17 AM

Post #7291660

Cindy, my h. foetidus thrives in a pretty bright shade location.
I'm not sure there's any direct sun, but still pretty open situation.
I haven't tried it in deeper shade.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 20, 2009
2:05 PM

Post #7292444

Weerobin - are the soil requirements the same as H. orientalis? What variety are you growing?
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

November 20, 2009
4:54 PM

Post #7292898

that's a lot of stinking trays

Guess I'll inquire about the ones he has in 288 plug trays. At least I can leave them in the tray until next year when I have more room in the greenhouse
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 20, 2009
6:03 PM

Post #7293063

LOL!
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

November 20, 2009
10:47 PM

Post #7293894

Cindy, I lost the plant tag long ago. Organization isn't one of my strengths.
I suspect it's the straight species, but not sure.
I also am embarassed to admit I don't do soil analysis. Not once.
I realize I may be evicted from DG for it...
I have lots of hellebores growing around my yard.
They don't seem fussy in the least.
My most exuberant h. foetidus is right by my house foundation.
It's protected from winter wind (though I have others doing fine in more exposed situations).
I suspect the cement of the foundation alkanizes the soil to some degree,
but as I say, I don't know for sure.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 21, 2009
1:00 AM

Post #7294383

Mine seem to like acid soil. They can take clay and even staying wet for awhile, but they can't take freezing, water-logged soil.

I find that H. argutifolius and H. foetidus seem to need a little more heat and like a little better drainage. But neighter seems to mind the acid soil.

WR - I don't do soil analysis, but I know that my soil's acid because of the needles and because the Hydrangeas are blue!!
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 21, 2009
1:02 AM

Post #7294389


http://www.grahamrice.com/hellebore/species/argutifolius/index.html

http://www.hellebores.org/foetidus.html
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 21, 2009
1:25 AM

Post #7294484

Katie59 said, "Mine seem to like acid soil. They can take clay and even staying wet for awhile, but they can't take freezing, water-logged soil."

Well that cuts it for me.. Im sand, poor soil and wet. Although in the woods there is some higher ground.. and a couple of pine tees...

Dream, dream...
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 21, 2009
1:32 AM

Post #7294503

Just try an orientalis and see. Put it at the top of a slope to keep drainage up and see what happens. I think you'll be surprised at how tough they can be once they're established.

Mine get wet and cold in winter - it's just that we do water-logged and 32 pretty well around here and that's tough for everybody but the natives - and the lonicera nitida, which has done well there . . .
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 21, 2009
3:24 AM

Post #7294821

I live on a bog and it gets colder than a witches adder. 32 aint nuthing unless its below 0. Your winter is a cake walk.

Had it here where the ground froze pipes 4 foot below the surface... Blossom was not a happy camper that winter. Course, Im not a happy camper any winter anymore... but then that just might be me! You would think at my age I would get used to it.. buut NooOoo! And oh here it comes again... snow preduicted to come in Wednesday.. NO, not happy not happy one bit!
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 21, 2009
3:50 AM

Post #7294872

I grow mine on sand. Hellebores like alkaline to neutral soil, but I've found if I amend my hydrangeas with acid loving food, the hellebores under it don't seem to mind. I grow them in full sun with lots of water, to quite dense shade with little water. They definitely don't take freezing waterlogged soils.

People in the Adirondacks grow them, and they are much colder than you'll ever get. If you're z5. They are z3 in a good year in some of the spots there.

I grow orientalis, foetidus, niger, and some of the nigercors crosses, but mostly orientalis.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 21, 2009
4:18 AM

Post #7294939

I think the coldest winter we had in my life was -85 windchills...
Warmest was a January not too long ago wehre we had 65+

Mid 30's with damp snow is the worst due to the dampness. Oddly -30 can feel much warmer.

Right now we have had rain up the kazoo so things are getting quite saturated, but its not as bad as it could be. The surface water is still draining.

Last year was the worst for ice storms. I still have tree damage not cleaned up yet. This was 12/08

Thumbnail by BLOSSOMBUDDY
Click the image for an enlarged view.

pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 21, 2009
4:26 AM

Post #7294977

Eeeeeeeeeeeew, yuck. We get up to about 300 inches of snow per year, so it's a nice insulator. Do you get a lot of snow?

I'm sure you know, but are you only z5a, sounds colder. What general area are you in?

We had a warm December and January here, I think it was three years ago. I was dividing and planting siberian irises in early January. Got a lot done that year.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 21, 2009
4:31 AM

Post #7294994

I grew up in Fairbanks, AK back when it got down to -60. No wind. We didn't grow Hellebores. But we did have dicentra that came back every year. And spirea. And little Hearts Ease seedlings. I can't remember what else.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 21, 2009
4:38 AM

Post #7295019

I have an order for a person in central Alaska for the spring for siberian irises. He says they grow there. -60 is nasty.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 21, 2009
4:40 AM

Post #7295031

Due to global warming, it doesn't get down to that anymore. My mom didn't ever have irises, but it makes sense that Siberian irises would work there.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 21, 2009
4:43 AM

Post #7295050

Hardiness is down to zone 2a, according to McEwen, so that's -45 to -50. Hard to believe anything will grow at those temps.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 21, 2009
5:29 AM

Post #7295204

Boy, I've haven't heard of that in Fairbanks in a long time. Guess I should check with someone and see how cold it does get. -45 is pretty cold; that's for sure. It's a very dry cold there, so at least you can get warmed up when you're inside.

It's hard to believe that anything will grow; harder yet to believe that a crow can live outside and perch on a metal lamppost in winter. I will forever be mystified by that one.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 21, 2009
1:33 PM

Post #7295777

LOL! Caw Caw!
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 21, 2009
1:41 PM

Post #7295791

Oh, Im in the midwest...Lake effect snow.. oh what a blanking joy! LOL!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 21, 2009
2:29 PM

Post #7295858

katie - Thanks for posting those links. Very helpful information. Not sure that I would have room for H. argutifolius - now that's a monster. It does seems like H. foetidus likes a little more sun but I might be able to manage a spot.
If it's going to get really cold here, I always hope for snow. Last year was perfect (if midwest winters can ever be called that) and had decent snow cover. The weather patterns this year have dropped a lot "lake effect rain" on us (a new one for me) and I'm hoping that pattern has changed.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 21, 2009
4:46 PM

Post #7296290

Letsee, last year here, my perfect winter gave me frozen pipes 4 feet under ground.. Winter sucks. Oh yeah and I did mention the 2009 ice storm, Yup, winter in the midwest sucks and thats my story and im sticking to it!@
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 22, 2009
1:13 AM

Post #7297931

Yeah, you "lake effect" people are set up for freezing precipitation. We're supposed to have a El Nino winter here (more precipitation, but warmer). We in the PNW forum are combining our mental efforts toward night-time-only rains and temps above 35 for the rest of the season. One can always hope . . .

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 22, 2009
9:32 AM

Post #7298900

Let us know if it works
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 22, 2009
1:53 PM

Post #7299194

OK, Jo Ann,let's combine our mental efforts (I can't contribute much), and make this be a decent winter in the lake effect zone.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 22, 2009
2:09 PM

Post #7299224

Oooooohm!
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

November 22, 2009
2:23 PM

Post #7299257

So glad to be out of the mid-west and back to Maryland. Very rarely are winters really bad here.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 22, 2009
2:32 PM

Post #7299287

Polly - I had heard we are due for a repeat of last year.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 22, 2009
2:37 PM

Post #7299305

Last year wasn't too bad here as far as winters go, so that's OK. How was it for you?
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 22, 2009
3:24 PM

Post #7299490

We call it a "bad" winter when we can't get out of the subdivision to work. Then that's a good thing. I'm happy with snow cover as long as a) the roads are clear enough to drive on; b) I don't lose power and c) I don't have to shovel too much although it keeps me in shape for gardening. We did have over a foot of snow that lasted several weeks. Much rather have snow than ice.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 23, 2009
1:13 AM

Post #7301222

We had a fair amount of snow but the deep cold was the worst. January was really cold with temps in the teens for three weeks.
This was Dec.

Thumbnail by ge1836
Click the image for an enlarged view.

pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 23, 2009
1:36 AM

Post #7301283

And we had a pretty good winter last year, as winters go here.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 23, 2009
2:28 AM

Post #7301501

The name of the PNW thread where we discussed this is "we are all connected", so this attempt seemed particularly apropos there. The thought is that if we guide our thoughts to focus on a very specific outcome, we do have some power to influence even Mother Nature.

So far, so good. But we are supposed to have an "El Nino" winter which means lots of precipitation, but warmer temps. So we do have that on our side to begin with. Last winter we had a once-in-100-years snow. I loved it, but missed 1.5 weeks of work. I don't want a repeat of that.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 23, 2009
5:11 PM

Post #7302588

Your "guided thoughts" statement is a real thing.
Its called "erg"I think
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 23, 2009
6:09 PM

Post #7302784

Well, dont think WA can top the midwest snow of 67.

Heaped to the rafters it was.. er make that eaves of the house it was. No one was moving except the menfolk who were so desperate to go to town for um Groceries... They unbeleiveably walked several miles to the store, took the kids sled and several hours later.. Party time. Funny, cant remember who shoveled the driveway...but I remember sledding down that big ole hill of snow when all was said and done! Be the last time I can remember ever liking snow too..! No one worked for days...well, that is at a paying job except the grocer...the plows had trouble getting out too. The power stayed on as I recall. But I have been through winters several days running without.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 23, 2009
7:11 PM

Post #7303017

We had a snow like that at Christmas in 67.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 23, 2009
8:02 PM

Post #7303176

Thanks, 1836. How can it not be, right?

Oh, yeah, no - we could never top the midwest for snow. That's for sure. Especially when you have a precipitation-making machine like that. :-)
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 23, 2009
9:19 PM

Post #7303462

LOL!! hmm your that old and can remember that? LOL! Just kidding,, gotta tease alittle, the derned dial up is driving me insane. Yano, there is only one thing worse than winter period and thats DIAL UP in the WInter!

In 1836.. who'd a thunk (yeah, hillbilly werd) we would all be here all cheery and brite yaking on a machine like this! LOL!

Course me, I still go through the paces feeding the horses in the blustery cold, pailing water to them and having their warm fuzzy noses breathe in my face in the snow... so I can get a quick grip on what went on back in 1836!~ Lord, I have only one thing to wish for in winter and thats a 1836 real rooten tooten pair of geniune buffaloe hide cowboy boots! Now THEY had to keep yer feet warm! None of this plastic junk.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

November 24, 2009
12:13 AM

Post #7304060

Oh, that reminds me of going to the Sunday dog sled races with my dad. Even though the sun was out, our feet would get numb and we'd go into this big warehouseish building to thaw out after the dogs had taken off. I'm sure it was only 30 in there.

The Eskimo ladies would have the most beautiful parkas and mukluks. And they never looked like they were cold at all. Wish I had some of my dads photos . . .

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 24, 2009
10:50 AM

Post #7305243

That would be a forum of its own
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 24, 2009
1:51 PM

Post #7305484

Well ge, we have to entertain our minds as we consider the passion of planting hellebores... Im still thinking on it!

What the heck is a mukluk? That sounds like the job I have in our animal shelter!! MUCK - Luck... And no, not going there...seems things are always piling up!

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 24, 2009
6:11 PM

Post #7306192

I believe the Mucklucks are their boots
Galanthophile
North East England
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

November 24, 2009
8:09 PM

Post #7306508

I have lots of hellebores, some of them well established plants (about 10 - 15 years) so they flower and seed very well. I would recommend buying the plants in flower if you can - there are so many beautiful plants in different colours, with or without spots and stripes. The species forms are particularly beautiful but can be difficult to track down. Most are very easy to grow in part sun and/or shade. They don't do very well in pots and are definitely not suited to growing indoors. This is foetidus Westerfisk. Do give them a try, you won't regret it and will get hooked...

Thumbnail by Galanthophile
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 24, 2009
10:29 PM

Post #7306864

Foliage is beautiful on the H. foetidus, Galanthophile. It looks like it has a silver-blue frosting to the leaves with violet undertones. You're a fan of snowdrops?
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

November 24, 2009
10:35 PM

Post #7306875

Nice hellebore there galante!! Im getting hooked on looking thats for sure. I may have a spot in my garden...

aahhhh ge.. so thats where they got the term... muckers! LOL!

Well, its raining here.. but their talking snow...

Thumbnail by BLOSSOMBUDDY
Click the image for an enlarged view.

stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 25, 2009
3:34 AM

Post #7307664

Galanthophile, Would you have a source for that beautiful Helleborus?
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 25, 2009
3:41 AM

Post #7307676

It's an easy to find hellebore here, Mary. I purchased it as Wester Flisk, though. I think it goes by both names. Edelweiss, Avant gardens, Pine Knots.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 25, 2009
3:43 AM

Post #7307684

Polly, I looked at all of those, but they show green/bronze foliage.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 25, 2009
3:50 AM

Post #7307706

I have a couple of them, and they tend to get silvery towards winter. Maybe Galanthophile will comment more. But I think usually they are more green, and silver up towards winter. Barry Glick has one, 'Frenchy' that does the same for me, green in summer, and silver towards the end of the year. But hopefully Galanthophile will come back and advise on that.
stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 25, 2009
3:54 AM

Post #7307714

Thanks, Polly. I saw one write up say that they get a silver overlay. I have to look at my records and see which Foetidus I planted.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

November 25, 2009
4:02 AM

Post #7307756

I asked Galanthophile to come back and let us know why the hellebore is so silvery. Galanthophile is always so helpful, and knowledgeable.
Galanthophile
North East England
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

November 25, 2009
4:19 PM

Post #7308759

Hi again. I have a few "ordinary" green foetidus which seed around so I always have plenty. I was aware of the Westerfisk or Westerflisk form because it has red rimmed flowers and a red blotch in the middle of the leaf frond but always thought do I really "need" it.. However when I saw this in a local garden centre it literally stopped me in my tracks and I just had to have it. It's a very silvery blue form imo, I've never seen anything else like it. I will try and save some seeds! Thanks for all your kind comments. I'll hunt out a few more photos of my species. If you like hellebores have a look here as there are some very expert people that post there. http://www.gardenbuddies.com/forums/hellebores/.

Thumbnail by Galanthophile
Click the image for an enlarged view.

stormyla
Norristown, PA
(Zone 6b)

November 25, 2009
4:29 PM

Post #7308789

Thanks, Galanthophile.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

November 25, 2009
7:36 PM

Post #7309293

Thanks, Galanthophile, for the additional info. If I find room for one H. foetidus, I want to make sure it's the right one.
MaryNeedsSleep
Morgantown, WV

December 19, 2009
1:09 AM

Post #7381147

After 2 years of failed attempts at starting Hellebores from seed, I'm planning on buying plants this year. I may go to Barry Glick's Sunshine Farm and Gardens... it's not THAT far of a drive, and I sometimes drive through that area... has anybody been there?

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 19, 2009
12:06 PM

Post #7381776

I love my foetidus.I am still aiting or blooms.Its been bitter cold ,lo's 7* and day highs 20's.Snow keeps me from walking areoun to check it out.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

December 19, 2009
3:20 PM

Post #7382112

Mary - Nice that you're so close to the nursery. I have 'Westerfisk' on my wish list. Been too tied up with the holidays to do much more than lurk a bit.
ge - Yours blooms this time of year?

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 19, 2009
4:52 PM

Post #7382330

It looks as though it might,however this plant is new to me and may only be putting up buds uthat stay unopened until March.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

December 19, 2009
6:58 PM

Post #7382557

ge - Ah - I thought in an earlier post you mentioned that it was new in your garden.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 19, 2009
9:15 PM

Post #7382803

This is the second year.I planted it spring of 08
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

December 19, 2009
11:32 PM

Post #7383159

Maybe your H. foetidus forms buds earlier than H. orientalis? I have only the latter and they usually don't bloom until March for me if the winters are very brutal.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 20, 2009
1:25 AM

Post #7383488

Foetidus is normally the earliest. Mine were trying to bloom before the snow.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 20, 2009
10:21 AM

Post #7384387

They are new to me so I can only guess as to whats happening. Foetidus has put up light green fingers at the ends of branches and I can see round buds in the "palm". The plants have been that way for several weeks. I saw fotidus blooms in the pic from RedChick last year. They are in the background of the big painting I did of her helebores

Thumbnail by ge1836
Click the image for an enlarged view.

pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 20, 2009
3:12 PM

Post #7384780

How pretty. I admired that on your website.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 20, 2009
3:25 PM

Post #7384809

the fotidus are so stately in the back.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

December 20, 2009
4:44 PM

Post #7384988

Hmm - earlier flowers sure sound great! Does foetidus take as long to reach flowering age as orientalis (approx 3 yrs)?
ge - Didn't know you painted. Cool. Can you d-mail me your website?
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

December 20, 2009
4:48 PM

Post #7385004

ge, those are gorgeous...Grrreat pix! Would make for a verrrrry
lovely card!

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 20, 2009
4:48 PM

Post #7385005

The fotides I have are going to bloom this year after being planted in '08
joanngentle.com
Galanthophile
North East England
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

December 21, 2009
8:37 AM

Post #7387128

My foetidus plants seed around quite freely and flower in their second or third year.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 21, 2009
12:44 PM

Post #7387340

This is a non helleborus question.
I was given a gift certificate for WFF and am looking at their strawberries and Cream asiatic collection.
Has anyone had experience with this.?
I quit WFF because their plants are small and usually didnt survive the first year. The 3 reviews of the lily collection are 2 to 1 positive.
The one neg. put me off by stating the mix had no whites and the other colors were alike.Its a 25 bulb mix.
I am sure I can get BuggyCrazy bulbs for less.Maybe I will just get a hosta and be done with it.
Let me know in any event.
Hemophobic
Kannapolis, NC

December 21, 2009
1:05 PM

Post #7387377

Here is one of my NOID hellebores from last March:

Thumbnail by Hemophobic
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Hemophobic
Kannapolis, NC

December 21, 2009
1:07 PM

Post #7387380

And here they are in bud Jan. 11, 2009:

Thumbnail by Hemophobic
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Hemophobic
Kannapolis, NC

December 21, 2009
9:31 PM

Post #7388660

Hey, y'all. Reading through this thread and want to ask, is Barry Glick a local supplier in AR? Can't find them listed in Garden Watchdog.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

December 21, 2009
10:04 PM

Post #7388731

Sunshine Farm and Gardens in Renick, WV.
Hemophobic
Kannapolis, NC

December 21, 2009
10:15 PM

Post #7388756

Thanks, Cindy. Will check them out.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

December 21, 2009
11:10 PM

Post #7388911

Hemophobic - "NOID"? Does that mean "no identification"?
Hemophobic
Kannapolis, NC

December 22, 2009
1:39 AM

Post #7389309

Cindy, that's right.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 22, 2009
3:33 AM

Post #7389597

I have purchased lilies from WFF and they were fine. Not so other plants. I have not gotten that specific group of lilies, but others and they were good.

I think bulbs would be your safest bet with WFF.

I know a lot of the lilies they sell come from The Lily Garden, and their stuff is always great.

Since you have a gift certificate I would go for it.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

December 22, 2009
11:31 AM

Post #7390122

Thanks Polly.
I got the same advise on the Lily forum.
I saw this collection on DG last summer cant remember whoe had it.
I also cant remember if I posted this sweet Wreath picture

Thumbnail by ge1836
Click the image for an enlarged view.

yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

January 25, 2010
8:01 PM

Post #7495863

The kind people on the co-op commitee have alowed us to post an hellebore co-op interest thread. Anyone have suggestions other than Barry Glick? He's offering great prices, but a dollar's a dollar. If you know of anyone better, let me know.

Yehudith
willmetge
Spokane, WA
(Zone 5b)

January 27, 2010
6:25 AM

Post #7501151

Terra Nova Nurseries has really good-looking Hellaborus.

http://www.terranovanurseries.com/r/pages/plant-categories/helleborus.php
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

January 27, 2010
5:47 PM

Post #7502329

Oh good to hear they are still around.. I was wondering if Terra was still viable! YAY!
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

January 30, 2010
2:02 AM

Post #7510614

OMG -ge, I can't believe I didn't see that before. What a cool wreath!!!!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 30, 2010
4:53 PM

Post #7512075

Pine Knot Farms looks to be like the ultimate Hellebore site. Stumbled across them looking for H. foetidus.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

January 30, 2010
6:17 PM

Post #7512353

Cindy, if you are interested, we will be ordering some of the foetidus (I think!) from Sunshine Farms starting on the first.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 30, 2010
6:24 PM

Post #7512385

Oooo - where can I get the details? I sent Barry an email last week but never got a response before I left Monday am to come down here to TN. I'm over in the Columbia area until the 10th. Was Sunshine carrying only the species or were they carrying any named cultivars? I was thinking about holding out for 'Walter Flisk'.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

January 30, 2010
6:43 PM

Post #7512451

Both, I believe - you can go here for the co-op (I'm just sending you to the interest thread) http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1071736/.

I'm looking at Barry's site, but although I see some named varieties, I don't see any Walter Flisk. Take a look here: http://www.sunfarm.com/plantlist/hellebores_main.phtml
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 31, 2010
8:26 PM

Post #7516025

Thanks for the info, Sheryl. I may pass on it though as I have some of the 'Sunshine Selections' purchased a year ago as seedlings. Hoping to see how they turn out before ordering more.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 1, 2010
12:18 AM

Post #7516744

Gotcha - I was hoping you were going to tell me what the SS' were like, as it's one of the items available. Guess I'll have to order and find out!
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2010
1:16 AM

Post #7516906

Pagan,

I had some Sunshines in my garden back in St. Louis. That's why I'm getting them again. I planted 10 under some viburnum and did nothing to them and they did fine. When they started blooming they were in every colour including one that was a real deep dark red. They just kept getting better everyyear. All I did was mulch them.

Yehudith
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 1, 2010
1:59 AM

Post #7517038

That's great to know! I'm going to have to figure out what *I* want to order on this co-op, lol...
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2010
11:22 AM

Post #7517939

Just to let y'all know Hellebore co-op is open. Come one over and have some fun.

Yehudith
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

February 6, 2010
6:36 PM

Post #7535678

Sheryl - For the money (even limited budgets), the 'Sunshine Selections' are worth the money. Not sure if mine will send up any flowers this spring or not. I'm not tempted to remove any leaf cover from the Hellebores until late Feb. I had read somewhere that H. prefers a slightly alkaline soil so I've been trying to keep them in spots near concrete block but those spaces limited. That's why I'm holding out for 'Walter Flisk'.
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

February 6, 2010
9:59 PM

Post #7536337

Yehudith - whats the linkt there, post it so we can go!
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 7, 2010
1:25 AM

Post #7536893

I am Yehudith's co-host for the Hellebore co-op, so I thought I'd jump in:

Order thread - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1072553/

Here's the Chat thread (which also gives links to what is offered) - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1072552/

Please do take a look!
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 7, 2010
1:33 PM

Post #7538037

Pagan

Thanks so much for holding my back. 3 days without my computer is a nightmare.

Cindy, Im going to check with Barry on that. I had rather acid soil and my Hellebores did fine.

Yehudith
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

February 7, 2010
1:35 PM

Post #7538044

Thanks Pagancat.
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 7, 2010
2:02 PM

Post #7538091

This is from Grahm Rices' book about Hellebores.

"Soils, siting & planting

In general, hellebores prefer neutral or slightly limy soils; a pH of about 7.0 seems ideal although good plants are often also seen around rhododendrons in gardens with acid conditions. Acid soil can be made more accommodating by liming the whole area before planting, using an alkaline organic material such as spent mushroom compost when improving the soil, or by adding 1-2oz/30-60gm of lime to the planting mix (see page xxx) when planting individual plants. An annual top dressing of 1-2oz/30-60gm of lime per plant, before mulching, can also help. And on very acid soils, even the rhododendrons will appreciate a little lime.

Recommendations for individual species, but it is fortunately true that all types of soil can grow good plants although all hellebores hate waterlogged soil. In severe cases waterlogging can be alleviated by installing drainage; working organic matter and grit into the soil to improve the flow of water to lower levels can also be successful and creating raised beds also works well. Planting near to mature trees which naturally remove a great deal of moisture from soggy soil is a clever ecological solution for shade lovers.

In general, the more moisture the soil retains the more sun and open exposure hellebores will tolerate. On heavy clay soils, which tend to be moisture retentive, most will take some sunshine but the plants, and their neighbours, will still benefit from soil improvement.

Organic matter is, as usual, the key but the addition of coarse grit can also improve heavy soil. Thorough winter digging in the traditional style allows both grit and organic matter to be incorporated; forking these materials into the second spit will create noticeable improvements to the workability of the soil and the health of the plants. Well-rotted garden compost, well-rotted manure, leaf mould, spent mushroom compost, bagged soil improvers from the garden centre are all suitable forms of organic matter.

In sandier, well-drained soil the plants appreciate more shade. The addition of generous amounts of organic matter will greatly improve both the moisture holding capacity and the nutrient levels of the soil.

Planting

But improving the general soil is only part of the answer. Preparing thoroughly before planting individual plants is also very important. Plants of H. hybridus in particular develop deep and extensive root systems which allow them access to potential reserves of moisture and nutrients deep in the soil. So when planting it pays to prepare well. As it is not necessary, indeed it is a mistake, to split the plants regularly as is usual with many other perennials the plants will remain in the one site for many years developing into large and impressive clumps. So planting time is the one opportunity to improve the soil at root level.

Dig out a hole to the depth of your spade and 18in/45cm across; fork over the base of the hole and then work in some friable organic matter. The most generally available material is old peat-based or soil-based potting or container compost or the contents old growing bags; but the truth is that anything is better than nothing. Add to this a long term slow release fertiliser, and some grit on poorly drained soils. Work at least half a bucket of this mix into the base of the hole, then tread firmly. If the general planting area has been hurriedly prepared or if organic matter could not be applied liberally in general preparation, work some more planting mix into the soil which will be used to refill the hole.

The level of planting is important. Pot grown plants can simply be planted so that the surface of the compost in the pot is level with the surrounding soil. Plants moved from elsewhere in the garden should be set so that the final soil level is 1in/2.5cm above the point at which the roots are attached to the crown.

Refill the hole with soil, tread carefully with the ball of your foot, level off and water in well. I like to water the plants with a liquid feed the day before planting and add some liquid feed to the can when watering in afterwards. Finish with a 2in/5cm mulch of weed free organic matter.

Plants of H. hybridus and many of the smaller species will stay undisturbed for many years so thorough preparation is essential. Shorter lived species such as H. argutifolius and H. foetidus will thrive on less preparation. H. vesicarius (page xxx) demands warm, sunny and well drained conditions, while H. lividus and to a lesser extent H. x sternii are also different in requiring better drainage and more sunshine. See their entries for details."

Words ©Graham Rice or © Graham Rice/Elizabeth Strangman 1993-2001. Pictures ©Graham Rice/gardenphotos.com unless stated. All Rights Reserved.

Reggietheclown
Montreal, QC
(Zone 4b)

February 7, 2010
5:14 PM

Post #7538548

Here is a picture of Helleborus x hybridus Swirling Skirts

Thumbnail by Reggietheclown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

February 7, 2010
7:48 PM

Post #7539005

OMG! That is lovely!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

February 11, 2010
3:16 PM

Post #7550746

yehudith - Thanks for posting that info! I know my prime Hellebore planting area has some sand in it as it's near foundation block walls. Maybe that's why the plants like it there. It is full shade - high shade in the morning, a little denser shade in the afternoon.
Returned from my visit to Columbia, TN yesterday and have to track down my 'Walter Flisk' and get it ordered.
soilsandup
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 12, 2010
6:04 AM

Post #7552797

Helleborus foetidus in full bloom since December. Someone gave me a small dugged up offshoot of this two years ago, and it has been going strong ever since.

Thumbnail by soilsandup
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

February 12, 2010
2:20 PM

Post #7553257

soilsandup - Great photo! I'm liking that contrast between the two greens.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 13, 2010
4:06 AM

Post #7555205

Oh, I'm so glad I ordered that!
soilsandup
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 13, 2010
5:21 AM

Post #7555347

Thanks, Cindy. Pagancat - you'll like the plant. I have no idea what species mines is, but the blooms stay that chartreuse green for about another month - so about 4 months altogether. Easy plant to grow. It has an earthy smell, but I actually like it's smell better than the jonquils which I know some people really like, but I don't like at all.

Thumbnail by soilsandup
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Galanthophile
North East England
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 13, 2010
9:53 AM

Post #7555515

Beautiful specimen of foetidus!
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 13, 2010
2:56 PM

Post #7555923

Thanks, soils! I've ordered the set on the co-op, so there's 5 different kinds that I can end up with - hopefully one of them is like yours.
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 13, 2010
11:43 PM

Post #7557029

Soil,

Would you mind posting that gorgeous picture on the chat thread for the Hellebore co-op. That is such a beautiful picture. I searched and searched and couldn't find one that good.

Thanks

Yehudith
soilsandup
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 14, 2010
1:01 AM

Post #7557183

Thanks, Galanthophile.

Yehudith - I'll be glad to post it there. Can you send the link to the particular thread that you wanted it on?

Dianne
BLOSSOMBUDDY

(Zone 5a)

February 14, 2010
1:59 AM

Post #7557323

Soils, they are gorgeous!
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 14, 2010
2:07 AM

Post #7557337

This thread, Soils... http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1072552/

BTW - if anyone is still interested in ordering off of the co-op, it's open until the 15th, then no mas!
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 14, 2010
2:16 AM

Post #7557358

Thanks Pagan, you're so fast, what would I do without you!
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 14, 2010
2:32 AM

Post #7557398

Something you're stuck with, poor thing!
soilsandup
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 14, 2010
7:33 AM

Post #7557903

OK - posting to that thread is done. Hats off to you two for managing it. Sounds like soooo much work. But the prices are great that you are getting.
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 14, 2010
12:45 PM

Post #7558064

Soils,

Thanks alot. I just love that picture. I love Hellebores. My friend in St. Louis had a corner lot. She had a walkway that came off the sidewalk and wandered through the front up to hers steps. This left a big halfmoon area between the walk and the house that was shaded. She filled it in with Hellebores and trycirtis. You should have seen it in the spring! OMG. She'd get out in about February and cut them all back to the ground and in about 2wks up would come the flowers. Just masses of them, masses! Mine were mixed with bluebells. Anyway in the fall the trycirtis took over. They just sparkled, coming up through the huge leaves of the Hellebores. I love this plant!

Yehudith
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 14, 2010
4:22 PM

Post #7558467

That's a great idea for a mix...
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 14, 2010
4:53 PM

Post #7558545

Sine I have this woodland area in my backyard here, I'm planting huge drifts of Hellebore, Jack-in-the-pulpit, Mayapples, Tryllium, Bluebells, and other woodland plants all mixed up together along with shrubs like Calicarpa, Bayberry and at the very edge a Buckeye.

I love this look. When I was a kid growing up in horse country in New Jersey you could wander for miles through the woods without seeing another human. The floor was carpeted with Tryllim and all the other woodland goodies and there was the tree canopy above with the sun cascading through the leaves. In the spring there were dogwoods and magnolias in the fall the leaf colours and that smell that only comes with fall. It was like being in a cathedral. Us kids would just wander all day hunting salamanders or gathering persimons and fiddleheads. There was never a worry about our safety or being abducted are any of the stupidity our kids have to deal with today. All tht is gone now thanks to the developers but I can still recreate my little bit of heaven.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 14, 2010
5:05 PM

Post #7558580

Sounds *wonderful*.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

February 16, 2010
3:05 AM

Post #7562896

I finally committed to ordering some 'Walter Flisk' from Edelweiss. And since I was already paying the big shipping bucks, I added an Epimedium acuminatum x davidii.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 16, 2010
3:48 AM

Post #7563040

They have some realllllly cool stuff, don't they? I'm going for a couple of Hebes from them - and probably a couple of other things, not sure what yet.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

February 16, 2010
2:41 PM

Post #7563735

Grateful to all of the DG folks who recommended Edelweiss to me. Because they're in the NW, I dreaded the shipping cost but they're still cheaper than Forestfarm, who really remains my all-time favorite. Still looking for the elusive counterpart to FF east of the Miss.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

February 16, 2010
3:27 PM

Post #7563848

Mmm - you and me both.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

February 17, 2010
7:17 AM

Post #7566025

Snow bunting.

Thumbnail by katie59
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

February 17, 2010
2:49 PM

Post #7566454

katie - Can almost smell your spring looking at the photo.

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