With the NARGS seed list up in the last couple of days, I am getting excited about what I will grow in 2010. Actually, I received my AGS seed order today! It was far less fuss for me to send seeds to their exchange than to the NARGS (although I sent seed to NARGS as well). USDA makes it difficult for Americans to get seed from overseas but it is still easy to get them in Canada.
As an overseas member, I get their seeds for free...what a deal! I got all my first choices:
Androsace X pedemontana
Anemone obtusiloba blue
Anemone palmata lutea
Aquilegia jonesii (will it be the real thing?)
Cyclamen purpurascens silver leaf
Lewisia cotyledon Alba
Lewisia nevadensis Rosea
Our Botanical garden is also a member so I just ordered seems for them..different from the above as I share any seedlings between them and myself anyway...a nice perk to working at a botanical garden where I sow all the new stuff!
Beautiful list, Todd - must be heaven to have the facilities of your Botanical garden in which to sow those seeds. I'll post mine later.
There is one on my NARGS list that reallyreally interests me - Shortia uniflora v orbicularis pink 15cm Japan: Ooyama Toyama Pref 500m 140 - a relative was first *discovered* by one of the Bartrams in the 1800s, then not seen again until botanists thought they had found it in Japan later in the mid-20th century - but! 'twarnt the real thang. More time passed and the Bartram's specie was finally *rediscovered* (North Carolina?). Subsequently to that, developers destroyed part of the original, limited habitat - don't know what's left by now.
This is all from hazy memory, and I'm too pooped right now to look things up and verify. Will come back tomorrow. But I too will be in heaven if I can get this one to grow on my shady hillside - a very pretty plant with fascinating, heart-lurching history.
I didn't even notice that listing! Probably just a s well as Shortia are not easy to grow or germinate. I have enough toughies among the ones above! The two I most want to grow for me are Androsace bulleyana and Primula macrophylla...both are bright red!
BTW,we helped package seed last week, for the phase 2 of the exchange. I happened to pick up a package from donor #71 (Alta). The T. rubens. Just thought I'd let you know that even though it seemed like a lot of seed that you sent, the other donor didn't send much at all, and making the required number of packages for the lot, it came out just right.
Phase 3 (distribution) won't begin until the latter half of January.
Your list is much more interesting than mine...I don't recall even seeing some of those listed! Oh well, in the second round I will try some of the lily and iris...I might as well get my feet wet with trying those. Meanwhile, my NARGS list is at work...I'll post them tomorrow.
Oh, that's neat, Rick! I'm deliberating over my NARGS choices right now - must finish and get a money order tomorrow and send it in. I managed to get through my SRGC order in November, and here I am again... these things are exhausting. Beyond a few things that I recognize immediately and check off, I always get to the point of almost random selections later on, LOL!
Forgot to say Alta, thanks for sending in the S. nigrescens.
When I am research seed lists, I've given up trying to find actual cold hardiness ratings for the weird stuff. Way too time consuming, and so often only the Europeans have grown it, and pretty much never use temperature ratings. So I usually just extrapolate from various informations for possible survival. As we all know, zone ratings can be bogus anyway! The only real downfall for me is when I sell excess plants at our plants sales: I can't really say how cold hardy they are.
The first Dicentra macrocapnos us up in 3 weeks. From dried seed, I guess it didn't need any warm-cold-warm, or even cold-warm treatment.
Nice choices there Alta. I assume the Codonopsis is grey-wilsonii...I grew that but it ended up being a plain clematidea. I have grown Trifolium alpinum (didn't survive the winter for me), Saxifraga callosa (perfect), Satureja montana illyrica (great fragrant foliage but flowers were so-so), Lindelofia (great plant), Arenaria purpurascens (perfect) and Dianthus glacialis (perfect)...I have to look up Vella...that's a new one for me!
Here is my NARGS order:
Achillea ageratifolia (I loved yours Alta)
Carlina acaulis (another Alta inspired)
Clematis columbiana tenuiloba (I killed mine and need to try again)
Dianthus haematocalyx pindicola
Gazania linearis (had this one for years but it suddenly died last winter)
Iris setosa (pale pink!)
Morina longifolia (another one that upped and died last winter)
Osteosperma barrerae (another Alta inspired)
Penstemon lyallii (yet another that suddenly died...lived 12 years!)
Penstemon Six Hills
Penstemon speciosus kennedyi
Primula kisoana alba
Primula secundiflora (lost it to root weevils..have to try again)
Rhododendron molle japonicum
Silene nigrescens (hope there are seeds left Alta!)
I expect many of these will have to be grown in our alpine house at work, especially the dry-land penstemon.
Well, there were about 600 orders pending when we started today. I am not sure if I am going to get to help with the other order filling parties. Last year I had work scheduled when most happened. If you were in the first 200, yours should be going out Monday.
I received my SIGNA order today:
Gladiolus kotchyanus caucasicus ex Armenia
Gladiolus papilio ex 'Ruby"
Iris chrysographes black
Iris cristata ex "Sam's Mini'
Iris cristata with underground runners
Iris gracilipes alba ex "Bucko"
iris gracilipes mix
Iris koreana #6
Iris koreana ex Byeonsanbando,S.Korea
Iris odaesanensis ex Chuwang-san,S.Korea
Iris prismatica maroon
Irls verna col. KY
Not so good of a pic, but don't we all need something about now?
I placed my SIGNA order just after Christmas so I guess it will be a few weeks yet until I get mine. I ordered only versicolor-siberica crosses and hookeri-setosa forms...that's my breeding focus group but thinking back, i should have tried some of the more unusual species like you did Rick.
It was just after Christmas when I placed my NARGS order so I might have to wait a while yet...I am anxious as most will need strat first so I expect it will be April before the seeds actually germinate. I checked on my startifying AGS seeds in the root cellar and three Allium, 2 campanula and 2 Sorbus germinated in the dark at 3 C! The Allium amd Sorbus look fine now that they have been moved into the light but the Campanula were so spindly that they were lost. I certainly did not expect Campanula to germinate under such cold conditions.
I'd be interested to know which species those were (of each genus) that germinated at 3C. I would suspect the Alliums would be winter growers in their native haunts? Or perhaps not since they are bulbous. Deno lists a few that germinate at 40F, but didn't test beesianum, macranthum or wallichii.
BTW, do we all know that Tom Clothier (on his site) has a consolidated listing of Deno tested species from all three books on one excel spreadsheet? It's quite handy.
It was great meeting with you too, Todd, and a very nice presentation you did at CRAGS tonight! Your plant knowledge astounds me (although I did expect it)! By the way, I grow Hutchinsia alpina (which you mentioned wanting seeds for) and can try to collect some for you.
Yeah, I hope "Codonopsis grey" is correctly C. grey-wilsonii; the species name was incomplete in the SRGC list for some reason. I got all of my requested seeds from SRGC the other day, with the exception of #4052 Castilleja unalaschcensis. I got #4062 Chelone glabra instead - not anything I was interested in! Oh well, just a little boo-boo on someone's part. (Germinating the Castilleja probably would have taken far more fussing than I could stand anyway!)
From NARGS, I ordered:
Achillea ageratifolia ssp. aizoon (lost my species after a couple years... dang.)
Callianthemum anemonoides or kernerianum
Cyclamen alpinum and hederifolium (OK, I'll try again with the latter...)
C. purpurascens (trying to get some more leaf variety)
Dianthus petraeus ssp noeanus
Hepatica americana & maxima
Pelargonium endlerichianum (I have not given up on this one yet, assuming I can germinate it.)
Pulsatilla chinensis, jarmilae, kostyczewii (following your lead, Rick!)
Soldanella alpina or any other soldanella
Rick, glad to see you posted your Pulsatilla turcz... on NARGS - I was hoping you would! Looking forward to more photos from you!
The P. turczaninovii was a test in preparation. Gosh, I only did it a couple days ago and already you found it. I've been enjoying yours and Todds contributions very much. Yes, more to come, eventually, and to add to your how many hundreds (and Todd's-guessing 1000s)?
BTW, I had no idea 72 ppi was max for screens. The "about photos for the WIKI" was helpful.
A nice and varied selection, Alta. I still have Achillea ageratifolia in a trough, since 2004. A. sikokianum grew very easily from seed for me, but in their fourth winter, every one of them (of at least five) died.
I just downloaded Jānis Rukšāns' catalog for giggles, or . . . maybe not . . .
After sitting the year out last year, thinking I might move,
I did get my order in this year. I did some nice selections
from leftover seed from last years' NARGS that I'm trying
now. I'm such an amateur compared to you folks. Here's
what I have started (I know the cyclamen probably isn't
viable after a year but I'll give it a go anyway).
As I added your results to my master list (mostly Deno), I noticed he listed L. flos-jovis as a 70D germinator (70F in the dark). I guess only time will tell if yours is what it is, or there have been cases when cultivars or varieties of the same species germinate differently.
Leftwood wrote:As I added your results to my master list (mostly Deno), I noticed he listed L. flos-jovis as a 70D germinator (70F in the dark). I guess only time will tell if yours is what it is, or there have been cases when cultivars or varieties of the same species germinate differently.
Hmmmm, I think I would be very hesitant about suggesting that seed germination behavior could necessarily be used to verify a plant ID...
In Deno's publications, his only sample (2nd Supplement) of L.flos-jovis was seeds that had been dry-stored for 4 years; 29% of these germinated at 70D, but since he did not publish the results of any experiments with fresh or fresher seed, the comparison is not available. While the great value of Deno's work is to show the most effective method for germinating seeds, many of his experiments with other seeds shows certain percentages of germination no matter what the treatment (dark, light, cold-warm, warm-cold). In other words, it seems it's sometimes possible to get a little bit of germination (though not the best germination) in different ways or even by shortcutting the treatment. ;>)
You're right alta, I've noticed that too, and I didn't go back to look at the particulars of his trial on flos-jovis.
Indeed within a species germination variation does occur, and not always just according subspecies or variety. Of course I did not mean to infer that Todd's flos-jovis seed were not genuine, only that the seemingly odd germination variation raised the question. I stand by it as a valid query, at least at the time.
I too have experienced results contrary to Deno's findings. As I have always said: There only unbroken rule in the natural plant world is that there are no unbroken rules.
The seeds I got for Achillea ageratifolia ssp. aizoon look like chaff, so I'm not too hopeful for that one.
P.S. Gee, it's sort of gratifying to finally have evidence that people actually want the seeds I donate - I see quite a few of them here this year, which is just lovely! (Not that I ever questioned donating seed, but wow!) What more does an alpine gardener need to be convinced to donate seeds? I hope this observation encourages others who may be undecided to do the same. :>)
Todd, I'm trying Delosperma alpinum as well. The "alpinum" bit gave me hope that it might be as hardy as D. congestum, nubigenum, basuticum... or whatever the yellow ones are that I'm growing. (I guess there is much doubt as to whether these commonly-grown yellow-flowered ones are accurately named or even valid species at all. They may be nothing more than garden cultivars/hybrids(?), apparently.)
I must say the Silene nigrescens packet looked to have 3 specks of dust! I am not holding out hope for seed germination. Your yellow Delosperma is probably basuticum..that is the hardiest of the three yellows you mentioned. Panayoti sent seeds of a couple of the named hybrids...they were planted about a month ago and have filled the pots with tiny seedlings. I'll try them in the alpine house at work as it is doubtful they would survive the wet winters outdoors. I actually overwinter my ashtonii and sutherlandii in my unheated basement window...they have been in pots for 4 years now and doing fine.
Todd_Boland wrote:I must say the Silene nigrescens packet looked to have 3 specks of dust! I am not holding out hope for seed germination.
Well, let me know how it goes. I don't recall the seeds being particularly small, let alone dust-like!
Todd_Boland wrote: Your yellow Delosperma is probably basuticum..that is the hardiest of the three yellows you mentioned.
Could all be... the three types of plants seem to have different characteristics, so it may be that there are at least 3 different cultivars or hybrids or whatever, possibly. The "D. congestum" came from Gardens North years ago; actually, it was listed as D. aff congestum, so definitely a clue to an assumed ID there.
Latest update: Loads of seeds germinating; some are still in stratification stage. The list of germinated species:
D. 'John Profitt'
D. 'Beaufort West'
Rhododendron molle ssp. japonica
This is only about 1/3 of what is sown and I just ordered 80 more packets from the NARGS surplus...I'm nuts!
Todd, care to annotate any of those that you remember coming up during stratification?
One of your Claytonia sibirica still in a pot got dumped this fall accidentally. I replanted it and brought it inside. It died a couple months ago, but now a couple seeds have sprouted in the old pot. I'm really surprised because I hadn't been keeping the soil moist. But they came up anyway.
It's time for me to start sowing inside now. Days are long enough and such. And I have a cold frame to play with now too.
I went nuts too this year - first SRGC, then NARGS, then Pavelka and Holubec. Well, at least I've controlled my seed greed enough to ignore the NARGS second round! (I'm going to be seriously challenged for room as it is, until I can chuck seedlings outdoors, which won't be for some time yet.)
Oh, BTW, Todd, I don't grow Silene dinarica so did not have it to donate.
I have germination on the following as of tonight (all easy, warm germinators):
Acantholimon kotschyi ssp. laxispicatum
Achillea aleppica ssp. zederbaueri (I had this but it got bitten off by a rabbit and it didn't come back; sort of a woody stem)
Androsace bisulca var. aurata
Campanula argyrotricha, kirpicznikovii (biennial), kowkinsiana, orphanidae, seraglio, stricta ssp. alidaghensis, topaliana
Codonopsis bhutanica, grey-wilsonii
Cyananthus macrocalyx, microphyllus
Dianthus arpadianus ssp. pumilus, petraeus ssp. noeanus, pinifolius ssp. serbicus
Dracocephalum foetidum, heterophyllum, poulsenii
Gentiana siphonantha, striata
Incarvillea compacta, younghusbandii
Inula acaulis ssp. caulescens, heterolepis
Lagotis yunnanensis (only 1 seedling, may be a weed?)
Lupinus lepidus utahensis
Potentilla caulescens, divina
Salvia campanulata, verbenacea
Satureja montana illyrica
Saussurea eopygmaea, graminifolia, stella
Scutellaria hypericifolia, zhongdianensis
Silene macrantha, pusilla
Verbascum fontqueri,roripifolium, rotundifolium haenseleri
It's difficult to even find out what some of these things look like... so I figured I'd have to grow them to find out!
I used an overnight GA-3 soak (a few drops of water, a tiny toothpick-tip amount of GA-3, as per Kristl Walek's directions) for the gentians.
Yeah, it's definitely crazy! I expect some of the things I'm growing will not turn out to be especially garden-worthy (others were described glowingly) but it will be interesting to see what I can grow here!
The Pavelka and Holubec lists were really fascinating - high elevation plants from China and Turkey, mostly. I'm pleased that I have gotten what I think is quite good germination from them, even though some of the seeds were from expeditions some years ago (both indicate the year of collection). I got the Pavelka order first, so have more germination from those, as compared to the Holubec seeds planted later. All of those noted were obviously ones that (fortunately) required no conditioning, so I got some instant gratification!