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Water Gardens: different kinds of koi?

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FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 26, 2009
4:11 AM

Post #7398610

It has just dawned on me that there are different kinds of koi? I seen a picture of a butterfly koi. Do they get as large as the others?
I'm not planning on putting koi in my new pond, because they get too large for what I am doing. But I wondered if the butterfly kind stayed smaller perhaps?
mothermole
Deer Park, IL
(Zone 5b)

December 26, 2009
5:10 AM

Post #7398680


The answer is Nope-they grow large!!! But boy are they beautiful to watch in the pond. I have a few cheap-o's with huge fins from Petco and I absolutely love them!

Refresh my memory Frilly-when is your pond going to be completed?
FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 26, 2009
5:52 AM

Post #7398740

completed? lol that is such an overused word don'tcha think?
I would like to finish it this spring.
I guess that will depend on the tax refund lol
Right now I am still diggin, well not RIGHT now. It is like in the single digits out there.
Then I have to locate a liner of some sort, I plan to line it with carpet first like I did my last pond.

Here is a pic of it now

Thumbnail by FrillyLily
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FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 26, 2009
5:55 AM

Post #7398746

rats, they get large. Well maybe I could just get two or three, after they get bigger will they eat my small goldfish?
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 26, 2009
5:54 PM

Post #7399659

Frilly

I have not seen any difference in the size of the koi based upon whether they were butterflies or not. I do have a koi, however, that really has not grown much in the last couple of years. He seems to have topped out at 15". He is a Malaysian koi. I don't know if he is smaller because he is a Malaysian koi or if it is all coincidental. I do know that my largest koi is my butterfly kohako and he was 23 1/2" when we measured him this past fall.

The only time that we have had any issues with koi eating goldfish or koi for that matter is when the small fry just hatch or the eggs were just laid. I will tell you though, because of the koi and goldfish being as prolific as they are, we never felt this was an issue... I know others look forward to spawnings and small fry, but every year we are hard pressed to find homes for the small fry.

Thumbnail by Carolyn22
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Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 26, 2009
6:01 PM

Post #7399680

Frilly

The orange and white is my kohako.

Thumbnail by Carolyn22
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FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 26, 2009
9:53 PM

Post #7400111

well I would think you would be hard pressed to CATCH them :)
Anytime I have to catch someone I have to drain the thing

Glad to know they probably won't eat the goldies though
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 27, 2009
11:33 AM

Post #7401247

Frilly

We are hard pressed at catching them. DH has 'decided ' he has 'figured out' how to catch them. I just let him do it - then I don't have to worry about it, unless of course if he asks for help.
FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 27, 2009
9:57 PM

Post #7402423

hmm I guess if they are small you could use a minnow trap?
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 27, 2009
11:39 PM

Post #7402637

Frilly

one would think - we tried a minnow seine and the fish were too smart for that... Like I said, I let DH worry about it. I have enough on my plate without trying to catch the fry..

There have been several babies we decided to keep though. In this picture, the little white butterfly koi with the black and orange is a fry we decided to keep.

Thumbnail by Carolyn22
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FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 28, 2009
3:45 AM

Post #7403082

very nice looking fish.
mothermole
Deer Park, IL
(Zone 5b)

December 28, 2009
6:06 AM

Post #7403271

pedigree or mutts-they're all great when you own a pond-don't you all agree?
HoosierGreen
Danville, IN

December 29, 2009
12:21 AM

Post #7405135

Frilly Lilly: It looks like your pond is going to be large enough for koi. Also, goldfish and/or koi will grow relative to the size of the pond; i.e., the larger the pond, the quicker and larger they will grow. In a small (or crowded large) pond, they will grow slowly and not attain the size of same-age fish in a larger pond.

P.S. I noticed the nice pile of excavated dirt next to your pond. You are probably already planning on this, but just in case, be sure to save some or even all of the excavated dirt for creating a waterfall. It sure beats trying to build up the area with other materials or brought-in topsoil. When I build ponds, I just spread out the excavated dirt as I dig, and it settles as it gets rained on so that by the time the pond is ready for the liner, the "pile" is ready for sculpting out a waterfall.
FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 30, 2009
6:57 AM

Post #7409011

well I don't think I will do a waterfall, for one thing I am doing this project by myself, and I do mean MYSELF
well my 8 yr old is 'helping' if THAT helps!

Also it is hard to tell from the photo, but I don't have alot of space left, so I can't go out any wider really or longer. I also have some easement area to the front, so I really can't bring it out too much farther. Plus I wouldn't have any idea how to do a waterfall, and I don't want to do anything too complicated and risk wasting money, time, and leaks, since I don't really know what I am doing!
I gave the topsoil away to a neighbor, after filling in some holes in the yard, and the rest I will have to pay someone to come and get with a backhoe. I know it sounds nuts, but trust me there is an enormous amount of clay there. Plus there was a pile there before I started, from some stuff we dug out around our cellar while we were working on a project, plus it has lots of chat in it, and other rock. I plan on putting lots of rocks and plants around the pond and maybe a spitter just for fun. I would like a fountain bubbler maybe. I am not sure yet, I guess it will depend on the $ too as DH job doesn't look so good. :(

I found a very large plastic tree ornament at Target today. Do you think that would last outside for a few years in a pond? I'm pretty sure it will float, but I don't know yet if I should use it, will the paint on it be ok for the fish? Will it last in the water? Ok, I might 'test' it in a tub of water and see what happens. Anyway, it was just a crazy idea I had. It looked cool so I grabbed it for $2.
FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

December 30, 2009
6:59 AM

Post #7409013

Oh, about the koi, yeah, it probably is large enough, but it's only 2 feet deep. And I don't plan to do a bottom drain. I think that koi need a deeper pond than that. Plus with the goldfish I can bring them in, in the winter if I decide to do that, the koi, might get too big and I would have a hard time keeping them in a tank.
Still thinking on it!
HoosierGreen
Danville, IN

December 30, 2009
3:04 PM

Post #7409451

A rock bubbler instead of a waterfall would work nicely, and look great too. Basically, you could just pile up some rocks in the new pond and have water "bubble" out the top, cascading down the sides. Real easy, and aerates the water for the fish.

Goldfish are fun, too, instead of koi. And, if a blue heron or other critter gets a few, they aren't as expensive to replace. There are lots of varieties to choose from, and they reproduce every year, giving you lots of new ones!

Keep us posted on your progress.

(Here's a photo of a small fish pond with a waterfall and stream I did for a client a few years ago. The large flagstones were so her small grandchildren could get to the edge safely to feed the fish, and not do any damage.)

Thumbnail by HoosierGreen
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shortleaf
suburban K.C., MO
(Zone 6a)

December 30, 2009
6:11 PM

Post #7410120

That is nice Hoosier, the possibilities and ideas here are endless! My Grandmother had "Comet" goldfish, feeder goldfish and Koi. The Koi wouldn't overwinter unless the pond was heated. The goldfish (all kinds that she had) would overwinter fine, but the surface needed a floating heater to keep the surface from freezing up.
Feeder goldfish are good to keep down the mosquito larvae and bug larvae if there is any. Well, I think any fish would be good for that, but feeder goldies are real cheap. And koi are expensive! My grandmother had some for years, they had grown to be very big, they were around 2 feet long, but they started diappearing when they got huge. We never knew how they vanished, maybe critters or maybe an enterprising human..lol I saw the prices when they got that large, it was nearly a thousand dollars apiece.
Unfortunately the fish liked to take bites of roots of plants as well, I don't think they must've tasted good or something because they never did any real damage from what I remember..lol
Its kind of a sticky situation it seems, water plants like unmoving water I read, but if its stagnant then you have mosquitos, whats a circus clown to do!
Koi anybody? This is a photo from the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha. They have feed dispensers like those bubble-gum machines, there is always like 200 people feeding them.

Thumbnail by shortleaf
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Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 30, 2009
10:35 PM

Post #7410951

200 people feeding the koi - I can just imagine the fish waste... I have to believe the zoo is well equipped to handling that type of thing...

You can spend as much or as little as you would like on koi. The yellow/orange one with the black overlay at the top of the picture, I bought for $5 about 3-4 years ago. He is now about 17" long and was about 4" when I bought him. I also think you can find fish in places like Craigs List and that type of thing if you look. I know Petco carries them as well for not a lot of money. Shortleaf is right though - bigger is usually more expensive...

Thumbnail by Carolyn22
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