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Winter Sowing: What have you tried? #2 ... 2010

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tcs1366

tcs1366
Itasca,IL&Lk Delton, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 1, 2010
4:23 PM

Post #7518588

The last thread was getting quite long...

Dont want to lose anyone...

Let's continue the current conversations here.

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 1, 2010
4:29 PM

Post #7518610

We came from here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1055482/

tcs1366

tcs1366
Itasca,IL&Lk Delton, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 1, 2010
4:51 PM

Post #7518697

thanks Linda... i usually try to add that... got sidetracked.

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 1, 2010
5:45 PM

Post #7518886

Jeannette,
Here's what my jugs look like.

Thumbnail by Gymgirl
Click the image for an enlarged view.

tcs1366

tcs1366
Itasca,IL&Lk Delton, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 1, 2010
5:50 PM

Post #7518904


Holy cow Linda... I can't believe I missed BOTH of the threads... that is so unlike me.
Thanks for catching my errors...

Terese

**sorry -- didnt mean to confuse. But i'm sure Linda knew what i was referring...

This message was edited Feb 1, 2010 3:38 PM
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 1, 2010
5:53 PM

Post #7518917

Ok, gotcha. Thanks. Just curious tho, what is Broadleaf Mustard, and why are you planting so much of it? That isn't very nice is it? LOL I know that isn't why you posted the picture for me.

Jeanette

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 1, 2010
6:37 PM

Post #7519088

It's ok, Jnette.
As many as you see there, there're about a thousand more seeds! I forgot how tiny mustard green seeds are. I only bought 1/4 lb. I could reseed a small country right now...

Greens - a staple of the South!
Mustard Greens are a big leafy veggie. Runs along the same lines as Collard Greens, another big leafy veggie.

Here's Lilly Mae's Greens Recipe, using frozen greens.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/964226/

Once you get the hang of making the frozen, you can grow your own and translate to fresh "greens".
Enjoy!

Linda
HERBIE43
Rutland , MA
(Zone 5b)

February 1, 2010
9:10 PM

Post #7519545

i'm back and i am still trying to get an answer to two questons. 1. can i wintersow vegetable seeds like tomatoes and 2. when do i plant the seeds. thanks

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 1, 2010
9:33 PM

Post #7519618

Terese,
Please edit your post above. You copied the "DO NOT POST" notification from the other thread. This might confuse some.

Thanks!

tcs1366

tcs1366
Itasca,IL&Lk Delton, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 1, 2010
9:40 PM

Post #7519629

Herbie... from what i was reading on the WS org site... toms are pretty cold hardy. I personally have never WS'ed them yet... but maybe i'll do them the next time I WS [hopefully tomorrow or the next day]

brb...
FruitOfTheVine
Blue Ridge Mtns, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2010
9:41 PM

Post #7519634

I'd like to know those answers too, HERBIE. Tomatoes, cukes, zukes, squash, peppers?
HERBIE43
Rutland , MA
(Zone 5b)

February 1, 2010
9:45 PM

Post #7519647

brb - so you are saying that i can try them anytime now??

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 1, 2010
9:49 PM

Post #7519671

I'm WSing every veggie that I would normally grow under lights inside.

The veggies that are best "direct sowed," or that don't like their roots disturbed, will be either direct sowed later on, or WSed now, in place, with a cloche or jug over the emerging seedling for protection.

My goal is to WS as much as I can, outside, and from now on...
HERBIE43
Rutland , MA
(Zone 5b)

February 1, 2010
10:13 PM

Post #7519756

i kind of like the idea of starting my seeds indoors. i only have room for bout 9 or 10 ten gallon containers on my deck so i don't have much trouble with indoor seed starting but beczuse i got involved in this winter sowing i will give it z shot. i'm only gong to use one milk container and i will put four or five tomato seeds inside and will see what happens.

thanks for all your help



tcs1366

tcs1366
Itasca,IL&Lk Delton, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 1, 2010
11:16 PM

Post #7519952

sorry Herbie... my kid needed the computer...

that was my "brb" [be right back]

Boy -- where is Karen when i am not sure of the answer...

so i googled it... I found a bunch of posts from folks in NY who said they WS'ed their veggies a lil later, normally when they did annuals... probably a month from now.

With veggies being Annuals... I'd probably wait a bit... maybe end of Feb, early March.

As i mentioned... I havent done veggies yet [meaning never] but plan to do tomatoes and peppers for sure.

Come to think of it... last year I did some of Jill's Black Pearl Peppers... sown on 3.13 and germinated on 4.22

hope this helps.

kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 2, 2010
1:56 AM

Post #7520484

The only veggie I grow is tomatoes. I don't sow them until spring, around late March, when weather starts to warm up a little. Some people do sow them in winter but they can be killed by frost and we get frost here for a long time.

Karen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 2, 2010
2:42 AM

Post #7520686

Karen, do you sow them in containers and treat them like winter sowing when you plant them in March, or do you plant them in a greenhouse or in your home?

I see you are in zone 6. I think I am about right then if I sow mine in late March since I do sow thm in the house under lights. (very close lights)
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 2, 2010
3:05 AM

Post #7520763

Yes, Jnette. When I did tomatoes, I used a milk jug and regular WSing methods. I just didn't sow until around March. I do all my tender annuals late like that- March, April, even early May. I have to be honest and say I have lost some tender sprouts to frost when I sowed them early, so now if I have tender sprouts I do give them extra protection. For a mild frost I'll just flip the top of the jugs closed and cover with a sheet. A few times I've put them in the unheated garage overnight when temps were going to the lower 20s. Trudi advises against bringing them into a heated house.

Many WSers say they shouldn't be coddled and protected but I don't buy that. Why leave them out there to die if all I have to do is throw something over them?

Anyway I used the wintersowing method, but in spring, a couple of years ago for my toms. Last year spring was so cold, cloudy, and wet, I did them inside under lights. If the weather had been better I would have done them outside.

Karen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 2, 2010
5:27 AM

Post #7521265

Well, if I wait until late March or April I will plant them in the house under lights. My season is short enough without having to start over because I lost them. I have a portable greenhouse I can put them out in May.

I think everyone has to do whatever they feel comfortable with. Whatever is best for them.
HERBIE43
Rutland , MA
(Zone 5b)

February 2, 2010
9:03 AM

Post #7521493

i think i got the answer i was looking for. i will wiat until end of march to start my winter sow of tomatoes and see what happens.

kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 2, 2010
10:02 PM

Post #7523381

If you're not too confident of the technique giving enough time for them to grow, maybe you could try some inside and some wintersown for comparison. Notice that I'm not in a much warmer zone that either Jnette or Herbie (I'm zone 6a) but it worked for me. Last year I lacked the confidence to wintersow them only because it was the coldest, wettest, grayest spring of my life. But when I WSed them in '08, they were much smaller then my store-bought ones when planted out but caught up quickly and produced fruit at the same time. They got over 6 feet tall by late summer


Karen
grrrlgeek
Grayslake, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 2, 2010
11:20 PM

Post #7523604

That's what I'm afraid of with the tomatoes, peppers, and eggplant--that spring will be like last year. I only do a couple of each (only have room for veggies in containers) so I think I'll start them inside.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 2, 2010
11:25 PM

Post #7523628

No Karen, I'm not saying enough time. I am saying losing them thru a late freeze after they come up. That could set me back pretty good and I normally would plant them in the house in late March and April.

I can see where you are right if they don't freeze they would catch up because they would be acclimatized before the ones that would have to be hardened off prior to setting them out.

Jeanette
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 2, 2010
11:49 PM

Post #7523710

If we have frost after they're sprouted, I cover them with a sheet or blanket. If we get a really hard freeze, I put them in the garage overnight. I treat all of my tender plants like that, including zinnias, marigolds, etc. Most of the time it's not an issue, so it's not much of a problem for me.

Last spring, and even early summer, was just so cold. There was never a drop of sunshine. I don't ever remember a spring and early summer like that in my 57 years. I barely ever watered anything last year. Normally watering becomes like a second career for me. It never felt like summer until August.

Karen

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 3, 2010
12:01 AM

Post #7523741

K,
How'd you keep your zinnias from getting all floppy? Mine grew pretty tall and just keeled all over the place.

I was thinking this time I'd use those tall water dispense jugs I've been collecting, just for seeds that grow up into tall, lanky flowers.

What'd yah think about using them for the zinnias? Also, mine too FOREVER to germinate last year. Just plain ole freaky weather!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 3, 2010
12:12 AM

Post #7523775

gg, What are the water dispenser jugs you are talking about? I am using some water containers my sis got for making wine??

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 3, 2010
12:16 AM

Post #7523792

Lookie.

Thumbnail by Gymgirl
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 3, 2010
12:17 AM

Post #7523799

They're pretty deep.

I know I'll have to cut them open to retrieve what I plant, but I didn't really intend on keeping these. I can get these collected all year long. Just wasn't sure what the best use for them would be. But, I'm thinking on those zinnias and maybe even the marigolds.

Thumbnail by Gymgirl
Click the image for an enlarged view.

kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 3, 2010
12:20 AM

Post #7523806

Tall and floppy? Huh? (As in "stretching"? Getting tall and lanky with long internode spaces?) I've not seen that in wintersown zinnias. I see no reason why it should happen. Are the tops of the jugs open, and are they getting some sun? When will you be planting them out in your zone?

I do pinch zinnias, whether WSown or store bought. Usually they're in the ground before I do that, though.

Karen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 3, 2010
2:20 AM

Post #7524183

I don't want zinnias that flop. Are they so weak they can't hold their heads up, or are their heads so big and heavy? That's weird. You've gotta want zinnias awfully bad. Why don't you get the wires that hold them up? What do they look like in your garden?


Maybe you aren't giving them deep enough soil in your WS pots. With those deep things I would fill them up to 1/3 to 1/2 full of soil. JMO : 0)

This message was edited Feb 2, 2010 6:23 PM
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 3, 2010
12:54 PM

Post #7525109

I always thought that leggy seedlings were the result of inadequate light. I've not seen it in my wintersown ones. The natural light outside is better than fluorescent lights inside. That's why I asked whether they were getting any sun.

Pinch those zinnias. Pinching zins always gives a better growth habit.

Karen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 3, 2010
5:02 PM

Post #7525809

Guess I was thinking more like top-heavy Karen. That there wasn't root deep enough to anchor them as to why they were falling over. Guess if the root was still in place and they were flopping that would be leggy.

kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 3, 2010
6:25 PM

Post #7526090

Conditions are different for WSown and indoor ones. WSown ones in an open jug can lean over from heavy rain or extreme wind if the jug is already open- that's why I asked if the jug is open. Too much fert (N) can also cause excessive growth, as can too little light or too much heat... I guess a picture would help.

Linda needs to give us a better description of her "floppy" zins, or a picture. And knowing the type of zinnia would help, too. Some have a neater growth pattern, some wild looking.

Pinching zinnias http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/annuals/msg0515582828345.html

Karen

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 3, 2010
7:35 PM

Post #7526268

K & J,
I sowed seeds in seed starter trays outside last Spring. Never did get a chance to plant the zinnias in the garden. By the time they croaked (still inthe seed starter trays), they were tall and lanky. I think they'd have made it if I had just put them into their containers. It was all my fault. And yes, there was wind and rain that contributed to them keeling over...

Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking I'll go ahead this weekend and sow those seeds in the tall water dispenser jugs.

I have separate packs of the giant Zinnia Envy and Fuschia, and another pack of smaller mixed Envy & Fuscia. One is big blooms, the other is smaller blooms, same colors.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 3, 2010
7:58 PM

Post #7526338

gg, I thing zinnias are a lot like marigolds in their germination and growth habits aren't they? I would think direct sowing when it is warmer would be better??

I had envy a few years ago. It is a very tall flower and very top heavy. Big blossom. But, my stalk was pretty thick on it if I remember correctly. (which I don't always do. LOL)

J

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 3, 2010
8:28 PM

Post #7526425

Thanks, Jnette!

I've been thinking that, since I'm gonna grow both the zinnias and marigolds in containers, I might as well just direct sow them into the containers.

K,
Can I Winter Sow in place? Cover the container over with some plastic wrap so the soil get sunlight, and poke some holes in for rain and air? LMK!

tcs1366

tcs1366
Itasca,IL&Lk Delton, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 3, 2010
8:37 PM

Post #7526458

there is someone in Colorado who does a 'direct sow' then covers it with -- say the top half of a 2ltr bottle. Tacks it to the ground, i think, some how... sorta like a WS/DS. said it works for them.

then there is this thread... same idea... http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1068898/

I still have not WS'ed anything in a while.. i've been prepping some containers...
but today is spent cleaning carpets.

Maybe tonight, if i'm not too tired.
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 3, 2010
9:09 PM

Post #7526552

Terese: I've only done 10 jugs this year, way below my norm. And I have heard of people direct sowing and covering with something like 2 liters. Never did it myself.

Linda, not sure what you mean by wintersow in place. Can you elaborate? Are you talking about the same thing that Terese described?

Karen

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 3, 2010
10:31 PM

Post #7526811

Yes, Karen, what Terese described.

Sounds like that grower started WS in a vessel, then just buried the vessel in the container! Not a bad trick if it works.
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 4, 2010
12:58 AM

Post #7527239

I know other people have done that but I've never tried. I can't think of anything that would stay put through the wind here, so never even considered it. We have enough trouble keeping a roof and siding on the house, so I can't imagine half a pop bottle staying put. Maybe a really long stake thru the opening would work, but I just don't see me bothering. Besides, I'm not well organized enough to plan that far ahead. I'm more the plunk and run type.

Also, in the thread that Terese linked, the poster was using those thing as cloches to protect seedlings through winter. She lives in NC, myostosis is hardy to zone 3...

Here are a few pics of my yard, taken a couple of weeks ago. Here the green blanket is all volunteer seedlings, probably 95% larkspur, that came up in fall. I've already culled a lot, they were replaced by new. No cloches for these babies, they have survived weeks of single digits and teens

Karen


Thumbnail by kqcrna
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kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 4, 2010
1:03 AM

Post #7527246

Last year's WSown digitalis, probably 3 ft. in diameter. The little clump is a several year old hunk of lobelia cardinalis

Karen

Thumbnail by kqcrna
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 4, 2010
1:08 AM

Post #7527261

I don;t know why it wouldn't work. Say you have a 10" pot. You want to plant a carex of some kind in it, a Calabrachae sicl, a Blackie sweet potato. Lol, and put a cloche (milk jug) over the top of the carex.

I started this before you posted Karen and lost it.

Love the pic of your yard Karen. I was looking at the neighbors on the other side of the fence. They have pampas grass planted with other real tall stuff in between. What is the real tall grass do you know/??

I had pampas grass in Seattle years ago and it was soooooo dirty. Nasty stuff. I don't think I had any, but looked like something rats would live in.

But I really like that real tall grass.

Jeanette
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 4, 2010
1:10 AM

Post #7527263

Ruds started mid summer, planted out late fall.

No way I'm going to try to cloche all this stuff. Moreover, I don't do much direct sowing because I don't know what other volunteers might show up on their own.

That's not to say that anyone else shouldn't do it. But I don't think it necessary to cloche perennials and hardy annuals for winter, and as for direct sowing--- Mother Nature often has her own plans.

Karen

Thumbnail by kqcrna
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 4, 2010
1:14 AM

Post #7527275

Sorry, I started that post when we were talking about sowing direct as in zinnias and marigolds and then containers. Thought it was gymgirl.
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 4, 2010
1:14 AM

Post #7527280

Jeanette, I don't know what that grass is. Looks like pampas grass to me but I don't know much about grasses.
kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)

February 4, 2010
1:20 AM

Post #7527290

As usual, Jnette, I'm not sure what we're talking about. So many subjects come up on one thread that it's hard to follow.

I thought Terese was talking about direct sowing into a bed and covering with a cloche.

Karen
grrrlgeek
Grayslake, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 4, 2010
1:51 AM

Post #7527368

I might try to direct sow some hardy annuals directly in their containers in April or so, just need to keep the critters off (and the cat off the keyboard lol). I'm also going to direct sow my sunflowers and cover with something to keep the bunnies off til they're bigger. And maybe any beans or peas that may be in bunny range. Or maybe a ring of chicken wire. Whatever is in easy reach as I am lazy.

onewish1

onewish1
Denville, NJ
(Zone 6b)

February 4, 2010
1:55 AM

Post #7527379

the critters usually get mine right before the bloom opens.. I have to keep them in containers on my deck to survive

tcs1366

tcs1366
Itasca,IL&Lk Delton, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 4, 2010
2:28 AM

Post #7527463

Karen ---
Quoting:
I thought Terese was talking about direct sowing into a bed and covering with a cloche.


this was the post i was replying too..

Linda wrote -- approx 2;28pm cst
Quoting:
K,
Can I Winter Sow in place? Cover the container over with some plastic wrap so the soil get sunlight, and poke some holes in for rain and air? LMK!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 4, 2010
5:13 PM

Post #7529227

To grrrlgeek, just put some bird netting over them loosely. the little animals don't want to get their feet caught in it. I had squirrels eating my tomatoes. I put that plastic stuff around them and that put a stop to that.
grrrlgeek
Grayslake, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 4, 2010
6:17 PM

Post #7529413

I tried that, the littler chipmunks kept getting their heads caught in it. I got tired of coming home every morning and getting nipped trying to save a rodent from strangling himself.

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

February 4, 2010
6:24 PM

Post #7529435

You wrestle with rodents???? Where were your heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy gloves???
grrrlgeek
Grayslake, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 4, 2010
6:44 PM

Post #7529495

The first time I was just strolling out to check things and I was afraid the poor thing would strangle before I got my gloves. The second time I tried with gloves on but couldn't get hold of the netting. I didn't have my sleek and fab Atlas gloves yet. They were the real small ones, so maybe young'uns. Never caught a chipzilla stuck in it.
ultasol
Kennewick, WA

February 4, 2010
6:48 PM

Post #7529509

I bet you could winter sow tomatoes safely. I planted Silentz two years ago, and it came back from seed last summer to the point where I was weeding tomatoes from the garden on and off all summer! Especially in jugs I bet they would wait for it to be safe to sprout,.. or perhaps even in the ground.

In fact, if anyone wants any 'Silentz' like offspring and lives in SE WA, I'm sure I'll have zillions again this year. The ones I did let grow were so vigorous and large that I know some tomatoes fell underneath and remained unharvested- seeding the ground for this season.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 5, 2010
12:48 AM

Post #7530648

Herbie,

Years ago I lived in NY. I started tomato and peppers from seed on March 15, (mid-March). I have lived in Nebraska, and now Wyoming and still start them mid-March. WS, as I understand it, is mainly for seeds that need stratification and takes a long time to germinate, such as perennials. Nothing is gained with WS tomatoes or peppers. Both are tropical plants. They also need warm temperature to sprout.

This year I am WS Iris and Clematis seeds since they both need stratification and time to sprout. I am also doing Daylily seeds as a trial though I have them germinating easily in the house after a cold treatment.

Here they are in individual plastic containers with moist peatmoss, then placed in a bin on the north side of my house.



Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 5, 2010
12:50 AM

Post #7530653

Here are 3 bins full of individual containers.

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

GardenQuilts
Pocono Mountains, PA
(Zone 6a)

February 10, 2010
2:06 PM

Post #7547415

I am still going to do tomatoes inside. I think I will get a longer season that way. Last year we had a cold spring and an early frost. I only got cherry tomatoes.

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Other Winter Sowing Threads you might be interested in:

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WS Poppies & transplant problems marie_ 100 May 11, 2011 4:44 PM
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