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Cannas: growing cannas from seed 2010

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garyon
Syracuse, NY

February 26, 2010
1:33 AM

Post #7588141

This is the first year I am growing cannas from seed. I have been discouraged over the past years as the virus infected the stock I rec'd from a US grower who suggested that they would "outgrow" the virus. Yeah, right! Is it true that seed grown cannas are virus-free?

I planted my cannas about two weeks ago after nicking them and soaking in water for 24 hours. Some are already 2 inches tall, and vigorous. It looks like I will be repotting them all in a week or so, and continue to grow them under lights.

The ground isn't really warmed-up here (zone 5) until late May. I plan to set them out then. Can I expect them to bloom this summer?

Can you share your experience with seed-grown cannas?

Grayson
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 26, 2010
2:25 AM

Post #7588237

I don't know the answer to your question, I am just getting ready to do the same thing you just did. But, my question is, are these going to make tubers this summer? Maybe they will spend the supper making roots or bloom, or both?
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 26, 2010
3:23 PM

Post #7589141

I grew seeds last year outside.. Started last week of may and brought them in sept/oct.. Some did bloom some however did not.. The ones that did I even got more seeds from.. The tube roots however were all the same size as the ones I purchased in the spring.. Storing them for the winter so far no problems.. They didn't have many stocks coming off each one though.. The roots I bought in the spring had up to 15 stocks on one plant, but the seeds only at most had 5. I will be again starting seeds this spring.. As its a cheaper way to add canna's to any garden.. Plus you get different looks too, since seeds don't always come true..
Jen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 26, 2010
5:19 PM

Post #7589410

That is true Jen, where did you get the seeds that you started with originally? I am starting mine today.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 26, 2010
5:37 PM

Post #7589456

Through trades.. This year also, plus a few i got off my own.. http://www.karcheskycanna.com/ has the biggest selection i've found and there for a good price.. I think I just might order a few, not sure though cause I only have so much room..
I dont usually start mine till we can plant seeds outdoors usually mid may.. I might however try this year.. Just to get a head start... but not till they can go outside most of the day...
jen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 26, 2010
6:25 PM

Post #7589573

I thought Grayson's thread that started this was interesting because my chart says they can go to 365 days to germinate. Wow, I would not have the patience for that. I will look at that site. LOL, I REALLY do not need any more plants (seeds).
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 26, 2010
6:33 PM

Post #7589598

I have heard alot about the seeds and that they are very hard to get going... I'm not sure if these people nick the seeds or not, but in my tries I get almost 100% germinated and it only takes at the most maybe 2 weeks.. Soaking them overnight in warm water also gets them going.. I think the 365 days to germinate is cause the shell on the seed is water proof, and if not nicked yes it will take what seems like forever is even to get going.. But once nicked it gets the water in there and away they go.. I almost didn't even plant the seeds i had last year after reading they take forever and are really hard to grow.. I decided to plant everyone I had and maybe I would get one or two come up.. NOPE!!! I think they all did...
I would like to know about the virus if it stays in the seeds thought??
Jen
Abutilon
Coal Center, PA
(Zone 6a)

February 26, 2010
9:15 PM

Post #7589909

Here is a seed growing blog that may help answer some of the questions above:
http://growingcannasfromseed.blogspot.com/

It is oriented more for winter and cold climate growers, but warm climate growers can adapt to best for them.

Virus will come through on some seedlings, but for the majority it will not.

Seeds do not take 365 days to germinate .. lol
Good they do not :)
garyon
Syracuse, NY

February 26, 2010
11:30 PM

Post #7590239

Thanks for the blog, Abutilon. I will be checking mine after dinner tonight. Four varieties were planted at the same time, and all have germinated but one variety.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 27, 2010
1:34 AM

Post #7590593

Oh geese I cant wait till may.. Seems like forever away, even more now that we got like 6" more snow.. I just want it all to melt and have the sun come out enough with this winter lol
jen
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 27, 2010
1:36 AM

Post #7590606

garyon what kinds did you start?? and what ones are not coming up??
garyon
Syracuse, NY

February 27, 2010
2:02 AM

Post #7590755

I have seeds that were sent to me from another DG member taken from Indian Shot, Tropicana, an unnamed peach color and an unnamed pink. All have germinated well but the peach colored one, which shows no signs of doing anything soon. (I poked into the soil)

We got over a foot of snow last night. When I walked through the yard this morning the snow was above my knees in places.

The cellar is rigged up with fluorescent shop lights - about 20 lf - where I garden during the winter. It's quite cold down there - 55 to 65 degrees. Cool temperature plants do really well. By May I close this down completely until the following October or November when I bring things in before the frost.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 27, 2010
3:42 AM

Post #7591038

Tropicana?? i thought they didn't seed... Mine never did anyways.. good luck with the peach ones, I love peach color cannas, so pretty...
garyon
Syracuse, NY

February 27, 2010
9:26 PM

Post #7592691

I thought the same, but the seeds were labeled that way. The leaves are green and don't show any coloration.

I was impatient to see why some of the seeds didn't germinate, so I dug them up. They were the seeds that had the smallest 'Nicks', so I made bigger ones. They were much easier to do after they had softened. Next time I'll soak them first, nick them, and soak them again.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 27, 2010
10:01 PM

Post #7592755

I nick them with the big nail clipper (for toes) and then soak over night.. The seed itself will swell in some spots where the water got it.. then I plant them..
Hope that works for them, I know what it like th be very impatient...
Abutilon
Coal Center, PA
(Zone 6a)

February 27, 2010
11:48 PM

Post #7592976

'Tropicanna' does not produce seed.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 27, 2010
11:56 PM

Post #7592994

That might be a good idea. Soaking them first. I don't know if I even got them nicked, I kept losing them so decided to quit while I still had them. They puffed up pretty good in the water. Maybe I did get them. Or, should I take them out of the water and nick them again before I plant them?
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 28, 2010
4:27 PM

Post #7594434

try using nail clippers to nick the seeds, I tried a few other ways with pliers and a file.. I just couldn't hold on to the seed, and man they would fly... Thats what made me try the nail clippers.. I just grip the seed with my finger and thumb and clip in a spot or two its pretty easy that way...
If there swelling in the water I think they will be ok, weather nicked or not.. I think the nicking is to allow water to get in..
jen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

February 28, 2010
6:01 PM

Post #7594622

Well, maybe I got more of a nick out of them than I thought. Yes, I was afraid I wouldn't find them when they fly all over the house. Bouncing off the walls and ceiling. LOLOL. Just kidding. Not quite that bad.
Abutilon
Coal Center, PA
(Zone 6a)

February 28, 2010
7:32 PM

Post #7594792

I like the rough sandpaper method.
I have a small pair of gadget pliers with a little notch in them. I hold the seed in these and place a sheet of rough sandpaper on the counter, and rub the seed over it several times until I get beneath the outer coat.

You made me laugh about flying seeds ..
A fellow grower friend once told me he used his blender to nick seeds.
Well .. You have to keep the lid on TIGHT. And you can't take a peek until completely stopped.
I had seeds flying everywhere and got hit (fortunately not seriously), too.

His method nicked the seeds too much for me and I did not try it again.
But we have surely had a lot of laughs since remembering what happened. ha


This message was edited Mar 2, 2010 3:17 PM
garyon
Syracuse, NY

March 4, 2010
12:21 PM

Post #7604023

Germination rate so far after about one month:
Indian shot 100%
labeled "pink" 40-50%
labeled "peach" 20%
labeled "Tropicanna" 0%

I'm not really hopeful about any more coming through.

Some are 4 leaved, stocky 4 inch plants now. I've transplanted into 8 oz foam cups. These things grow quickly.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

March 4, 2010
5:17 PM

Post #7604363

Yes they do, once they start they just take off.. Although I have found the taller (6-8 feet) ones grow far quicker then the shorter ones.. My banana canna was over 5 feet, while my tropicanna was a foot and a half.. Makes it nice to have the all in one garden..
jen
garyon
Syracuse, NY

March 6, 2010
5:34 PM

Post #7609428

These have been growing less than three weeks. The larger ones in the back are Indian shot: 100%germination on them. Those in front are "pink", with about 50% germination.

Thumbnail by garyon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

garyon
Syracuse, NY

March 6, 2010
5:40 PM

Post #7609448

Indian Shot less than three weeks old.

Thumbnail by garyon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

March 6, 2010
5:43 PM

Post #7609455

Looking good. Now, do you expect these to bloom this year? They are from seed right?
garyon
Syracuse, NY

March 6, 2010
5:52 PM

Post #7609475

Yes - seed from a DG exchange in January. I've never grown them from seed before. Can anyone let me know what I can expect?

Here's a picture of my fluorescent light set-up in the cellar. The photograph makes it look much more glamorous than it really is. They're shop lights suspended from the rafters and other supports, along with miscellaneous pieces of scrap wood and furniture. I get a lot of enjoyment from a modest investment.

Grayson

Thumbnail by garyon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

March 6, 2010
6:09 PM

Post #7609521

Hey Gary, whatever works. It sure looks like you are utilizing every square inch of space under those lights. Those shop lights are what we all use. We are just sure that we get the cheapest ones.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

March 6, 2010
7:12 PM

Post #7609622

garyon & Jnette
I planted cannas from seeds last year.. However I didn't start them till later on in may, and I just planted them right in the ground.. I would say they were in more sun then shade, but not morning sun, usually about 1:00 the sun would hit them till dark... I did have about half bloom and the other half didn't.. I even had some go to seed.. On the other hand I planted a bunch of banana cannas and even the ones from rhizomes I had didn't flower, so maybe they need more time??
For storing them in the winter the seedlings make a nice root clump.. I even had one my friend liked that i could break a piece off for her... They wont get huge roots this year, but bigger then the size you would buy at a big box store, walmart ect.. in those bags...
jen
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

March 6, 2010
8:21 PM

Post #7609739

Jen, that sounds promising. Thanks. I only have 2 seeds. I bought some, but traded or gave the rest away. But, that's ok, 'cause I wanted them for containers and the foliage will be good in there too whether they bloom or not.
garyon
Syracuse, NY

March 13, 2010
7:02 PM

Post #7627095

Update: no more germination yet. Plants are growing much more slowly now, having been moved to 55-65 degrees.
FruitOfTheVine
Blue Ridge Mtns, VA
(Zone 7a)

March 27, 2010
1:25 PM

Post #7660353

Looking good there, Grayson. You had a great germination rate.

garyon
Syracuse, NY

March 27, 2010
1:32 PM

Post #7660365

Just got seeds from "President" in a seed exchange. Will nick and soak tonight.
Abutilon
Coal Center, PA
(Zone 6a)

March 28, 2010
9:26 PM

Post #7663398

Canna 'President' does not produce seed.
It will be interesting to see what you get ... :)
FruitOfTheVine
Blue Ridge Mtns, VA
(Zone 7a)

April 20, 2010
4:40 PM

Post #7722125

Just curious how your Cannas are doing, Grayson.
garyon
Syracuse, NY

April 21, 2010
2:56 AM

Post #7723261

Some are doing great. Indian Shot has been most successful (about 80%). Some of them are 8-10 in tall and quite vigorous. Next is the pink one with about 40% success. The rest were no-go.

I got 5 seeds from a red canna in the robin. One of them has germinated.

I am satisfied with my first try enough to try again next year. Thanks for getting me started on this.

How have yours done?
FruitOfTheVine
Blue Ridge Mtns, VA
(Zone 7a)

April 21, 2010
7:46 AM

Post #7723883

Sounds like yours are doing great. Since I don't have a greenhouse or good indoor growing conditions, l just planted mine a few days ago outside in cell packs.

Abutilon, somebody sent "President" seeds to me too. Oh well...lol We'll see what grows :)

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

April 21, 2010
2:27 PM

Post #7724990

I planted 47 canna seeds in salad Tupperware 10 different types each in there own container.. Anywhere from 2-8 seeds of one type.. As of yesterday I have 11 of the 47 that came up.. I still have hope for the rest as I have read they can take up to 20 days... If they dont however i have extras i kept just in case.. we'll see in a another week or so..
jen
garyon
Syracuse, NY

April 25, 2010
8:06 AM

Post #7735296

Front row is from "pink" seeds, back rows are from "red Indian shot". I gave up on the seeds labeled "peach" and replanted the flat with castor beans. At the end of last week I saw a canna emerging.
Last month I planted 5 seeds from a seed exchange: "red". One has emerged.

Look at the leaves in this picture. I think we have disproved the theory that the virus is not transmitted through the seeds. As the season progresses I will discard anything that looks disreputable. I don't want to infect a "Tropicanna" that was recently sent to me.

Grayson

Thumbnail by garyon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

garyon
Syracuse, NY

April 25, 2010
8:08 AM

Post #7735301

Here's another view of the leaves:

Thumbnail by garyon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

garyon
Syracuse, NY

April 25, 2010
8:11 AM

Post #7735306

canna virus:

Thumbnail by garyon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

April 25, 2010
9:32 AM

Post #7735501

I agree that it does transfer.. I had a bunch last year and i though they looked bad cause they wern't in full sun.. Now that I have learned about the virus, i know most in that seedling garden were infected.. Thankfully I planted them all on the other side of the yard from where my other cannas are.. Not sure if i will just toss them all or plant them to see which were infected.. It sucks tossing over 50 canna seedlings, but better then tossing my whole collection.. This year I started them in pots and i'm really watching them (only 2" now) to see if there safe.. But they too will be planted away from others for this season..
jen
FruitOfTheVine
Blue Ridge Mtns, VA
(Zone 7a)

April 25, 2010
11:25 AM

Post #7735735

Well I didn't know they were infected, thought the same thing smurf. I am so sorry, Grayson.
Abutilon
Coal Center, PA
(Zone 6a)

April 25, 2010
1:11 PM

Post #7735945

CaYMV does transmit via seed. I have several varieties it has come through in every seedling. I do not keep these seedlings.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

April 25, 2010
3:45 PM

Post #7736334

No i would destroy them also.. my problem is that they are all dormant and i dont know which ones have it and which dont.. There just all labeled seedlings.. But now that i have a bigger collection this year, i think i will just trash the seedlings from last year.. I started 47 of them this year and dont really need to deal with the old ones now...
all the seedlings are planted separate and some distance so no to transfer the virus if they have one.. Well until the bugs come out anyways..
jen
garyon
Syracuse, NY

April 29, 2010
8:56 AM

Post #7748285

More seeds I had given up on are germinating: seeds from my original planting.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

April 29, 2010
9:22 AM

Post #7748364

hopefully you have better luck garyon, I have about 12 that came up from 47 seeds, 5 kinds didn't even start, I might add 1 or two of each of those and try again, They are slow starting but mostly doing ok, its the cold nights that are slowing them i'm sure
jen
Pewjumper
Glenwood Springs, CO
(Zone 5b)

May 6, 2010
6:06 AM

Post #7768861

For all of you whose plants have a virus, take a look at this article I found here at DG.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/730/

It may be the answer to your problems after all that attention you lavish on your plants! Good luck with all your endeavors.

Sonny
Abutilon
Coal Center, PA
(Zone 6a)

May 7, 2010
5:30 AM

Post #7771552

This 'treatment' may mask symptoms, but it does not remove virus.
GardenQuilts
Pocono Mountains, PA
(Zone 6a)

May 14, 2010
12:41 PM

Post #7792786

I started cannas from seed last year, nicking and soaking the seeds. I soaked them, nicked them...repeating until a little white sprout appeared.

Some people recommend using peroxide and water.

This year, I tried an alternate scarification method. I poured nearly boiling water (180'F according to the seed gurus) over the canna seeds (in a coffee cup). They made popping/cracking noises. I left them in the cup overnight. All swelled to about twice their size. I put them in a pot and they are starting to sprout. This method was much easier for me than the nicking and soaking.

None of my cannas bloomed last year, but I overwintered the tubers. Maybe this year.
garyon
Syracuse, NY

July 10, 2010
6:36 AM

Post #7957029

Update: Eight cannas made it to the garden: Indian shot and pink. I lost 4 or 5 through neglect. One of the Indian shot is budded, and most plants have sent out additional stems. I think I'll try again next year.

What seed varieties will you be saving this year?

Grayson
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

July 10, 2010
8:03 AM

Post #7957219

I have the following planted
canna 'Musifolia'
Canna flaccida
Canna glauca 'Erebus' (only one so far to flower)
Canna indica 'Red Stripe' (this one seeded like crazy last year)
Canna x generalis 'Ambassadour'
Canna x generalis 'pearly shells'
Canna x generalis 'Tropical Rose'
Canna x generalis 'Tropical White'
canna x generalis 'majella's' (name unknown)

My red stripes were all rhizomes this year not from seed, so those should seed and my Erebus flower is almost done so hopefully that one goes to seed also.. The rest aren't even close to flowering yet so we'll see about them.. I plantded Constitution also this year but none came up...
jen
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

September 10, 2010
10:57 PM

Post #8092351

Do you have pictures of these cannas?
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
7:59 AM

Post #8092763

I sure do

Ambassabour, as you can see its more yellow then the parent as far as i can tell from the pic posted in the plantfiles

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:03 AM

Post #8092772

Pearly shells no plantfile on this one, but shes so pretty

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:08 AM

Post #8092776

tropical rose the white one the plant looks the same however i have yet to get a flower

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:11 AM

Post #8092782

majella (name unknown this is what the seeds were called and just named after the person they got them from)

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:14 AM

Post #8092784

Musifolia with a bit of wind and hail damage to the bottom..

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:16 AM

Post #8092786

flaccida simple but so pretty

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:18 AM

Post #8092791

erebus

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:22 AM

Post #8092797

red stripe

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:25 AM

Post #8092802

From just rhizome i have...
wyoming

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:26 AM

Post #8092806

tropicanna

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:27 AM

Post #8092809

king humbert

Thumbnail by smurf428
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smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:29 AM

Post #8092812

Florence Vaughan

Thumbnail by smurf428
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smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:31 AM

Post #8092815

Unknown red and yellow one

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:32 AM

Post #8092818

unknown fushia yellow one with dark leaves

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2010
8:35 AM

Post #8092820

unknown yellow pretty sure its Canna indica var. maculata

Thumbnail by smurf428
Click the image for an enlarged view.

garyon
Syracuse, NY

September 17, 2010
3:27 AM

Post #8103633

I will try to post pictures of some of the cannas I started from seed this spring this weekend.
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

September 17, 2010
6:24 AM

Post #8103815

Thank you for sharing pictures.
I am just starting to grow cannas this coming winter.
smurf428
cullman, AL
(Zone 7b)

September 17, 2010
6:32 AM

Post #8103829

You will love them, but watch out it gets addictive.. Theres just so many beautiful cannas available, hard not to have them all..
jen
garyon
Syracuse, NY

January 25, 2011
9:23 AM

Post #8329488

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1150859/#new

moved for 2011


Grayson

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