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Japanese Maples: This was sold to me as a Butterfly, but I don't believe it..

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mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 8, 2010
3:11 PM

Post #7613931

Hey there fellow Acer friends!

I bought this tree a few weeks back, it was sold to me to be a Butterfly.

I have a Butterfly in my front yard, and it gets quite some sun, so I wanted to plant this one in mostly shade, in a pot.


The leaves are already coming out, but it doesn't look like a Butterfly to me...
My Butterfly in the front has no flowerbuds, and the leaf buds are bright red.

What do you think?

In any case I want to keep this tree, but if it isn't a Butterfly then my nursery has to give me a new tree.

I don't think I should tell them now, before you all have a say, I don't want to make a fool out of myself.

Thank!
Christie

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
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mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 8, 2010
3:12 PM

Post #7613935

Her's another picture

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
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mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 8, 2010
3:12 PM

Post #7613939

And this is a picture of my real Butterfly in the front

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
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Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

March 8, 2010
4:29 PM

Post #7614121

It doesn't look quite right but way too early ... fertilizer shade cloth and the age of a tree can fool ya... comparing a young newly planted tree to an older one is never a good idea. lets take a look in about a month .. it is suspicious in branch color and leaf shape but it is way too soon. My young butterfly don't look a whole lot like my older ones and those leaves a just popping.. just about any tree looks different at that stage than it does a month down the road
Davidsan
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 8, 2010
4:34 PM

Post #7614139

Thank you David-San.
This potted tree that doesn't look right is much older than my baby in the front, that's why I dared to judge it by what I saw.
But, you are right, let's wait a while and repost a picture!
Christie
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 9, 2010
4:46 PM

Post #7616881

Here is today's picture, what a difference in size already!

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
Click the image for an enlarged view.

wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 9, 2010
7:08 PM

Post #7617253

does not look like a butterfly
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 9, 2010
7:34 PM

Post #7617324

That's what I thought too...

So today i went to that nursery, and I wanted to keep quiet what I was doing there, but my husband, always the joker, said to the owner "watch out, she's on a naming business for a wrongly named tree!"

The owner asked which one, and I told him the Butterfly.
I looked at other Butterfly Maples he has, and the had way smaller leaves, as I would expect from a variegated tree.
But, small as they were, they did show the variegation!

So, the owner gave me that Butterfly, for free!
I find that very very nice of him, it was a $149 tree!!

This is the leaf on the new Butterfly I got today, you can clearly see it is variegated.


Christie

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wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 10, 2010
5:43 AM

Post #7618185

a great example of a wife under estimating her husbands judgement!!

good deal and very nice of the nursery - did you see any that looked like the first one? it probably will not be hard to name after it is larger as nurseries do not typically have too great a range of jm's.
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 10, 2010
8:21 AM

Post #7618649

Yes Wha, I saw trees that looked just like mine, the basic Acer Palmatum, no cultivar. ( Unless it is going to change leaf form in a while, but I don't think so)
I have such a tree in my front yard also, it must be 50 years old, and it is as far along leafing out, they are the fastest new leaves on the block!

My husband and the nursery man are friends, but I told him not to mention anything until I had proof!

Now I'm glad he blurted it out, I have 2 trees!

Christie
GardenSox
Sacramento, CA
(Zone 9a)

March 10, 2010
8:50 AM

Post #7618704

That's great news! And a smart business move for the nursery to make! Hopefully you will still enjoy your unnamed acer.
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 10, 2010
8:56 AM

Post #7618725

GardenSox, you are right, it will always remain the "name-that-tree" game, but it *is* a beauty, and I know it is a named grafted tree, and not some mutt I raised from seed!

I have a seed raised tree, and it is pretty, but not as shapely.
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 14, 2010
6:30 PM

Post #7629521

Glad that your nurseryman gave you a new tree. I do love butterfly and have a very old one - probably 25 years. Sounds as if you had room for two! ARe you going to transplant the seedling that you got originally or keep it in it's place?
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 14, 2010
6:43 PM

Post #7629547

Nah, I'll keep em both in pots.
The Species may need to be moved into more sun, I'm not sure.

Any guesses, anybody? I think it is the Palmatum plain and fine!

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
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doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 14, 2010
7:04 PM

Post #7629594

Those seeds don't look like the seeds on my seedlings Mrs.colla. Maybe we'll know more when the leaves finally open up.
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 14, 2010
8:39 PM

Post #7629821

Oh Doss, that previous photo is the tree that was supposed to be a Butterfly, and the nursery let me keep it.
The seedling is this one here

Christie

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
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kenboy
Big Sandy, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 20, 2010
9:59 AM

Post #7643154

We have a Butterfly that Maggi brought home last Fall and I planted in front of our propane tan
( should of planted an evergreen). It is a two year old tree and I was wondering how big a big a $149. tree was? mrs_colla do you have a picture of the whole tree? thanks.
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 20, 2010
10:03 AM

Post #7643161

It is about 5 feet.
I think the Monrovia grower plants are that price, so others follow it.

If you want a really grown up, sturdy tree, you can order one from Lucile at Whitman farms. She sends big sturdy trees.

( I am not affiliated with her)

The photo is the *real* Butterfly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_e73RI_ZDsthis is a movie with my back yard Maples in it, you can see both trees on my deck under the bare Oak.

Christie

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
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wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 20, 2010
3:28 PM

Post #7643689

davidsans japanese maples is another great place you should check out for the butterfly ken
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 20, 2010
4:25 PM

Post #7643795

Here is my mystery tree again, completely leafy! It is a beauty, no matter what she is!

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
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doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 21, 2010
2:38 PM

Post #7645951

You are right. IT's a beautiful tree.
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 21, 2010
3:27 PM

Post #7646086

a close up of some leaves might help figuring out what it is - it looks great!

do you know there is a turtle in the planter that looks like it will eat the bark!!!!
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 21, 2010
5:46 PM

Post #7646456

Wha, it is a porcelain turtle! ;-)

I have a close up!

Thumbnail by mrs_colla
Click the image for an enlarged view.

wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 21, 2010
7:02 PM

Post #7646654

porcelain or not it looks hungry.

hope someone can id this for you:)
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

March 21, 2010
8:34 PM

Post #7646836

Likely just a generic green Acer Palmatum... I don't see anything that looks different than that .Hoew anyone could have even sold that for any named cultivar is odd let alone a Butterfly. It has been well trimmed and has nice form so someone took care of it for a few years again odd. You can get a crappy tree out of a named cultivar and a beautiful one out of a Mutt... just like dogs and cats...But you will never know for sure .. I have hundreds of green Acer Pamatums that look identical although not as big or as nice form ... but then mine are used for rootstock and not well kept since the tops will be nipped off anyway. David(san)
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

March 21, 2010
8:52 PM

Post #7646862

In addition in looking closely at the trunk there seems to be no noticable graft .. those low knobs are possible the second one maybe... but more likely just early trimmed branches and two being so close .grafts. i think not... The green trunk all the way up along with the pretty typical leaves seems to scream generic to me .. Dazvid(san)
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 21, 2010
9:09 PM

Post #7646887

My favorite maple in my garden is a seedling and yours is in beautiful shape. Enjoy!
davesnursery
Milford, DE

March 22, 2010
3:59 AM

Post #7647157

Butterfly has a tendency to revert. If a grafter does not remove the reversions from their stock plant before defoliation then the odds of grafting a green plant or reversion are very high. It is highly possible someone grafted a reversion from the butterfly and never removed it from the pack.

Dave

This message was edited Mar 22, 2010 7:02 AM
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 22, 2010
4:58 AM

Post #7647228

that sounds likely dave - a local nursery here has several butterfly's with reverted growth branches and have never trimmed them off - have mentioned it to them a few times and almost brought my hand trimmers to do it for them - owner said she did not have time to do it - 24 months and counting.
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 22, 2010
11:12 AM

Post #7647992

Dave, that must be what happened! The tag was well on the tree, it will not have been blown off.
So now I have a species, or is it not even that?

My real Butterfly had a few green leaves, and I am so paranoid about reverting I took them off...

Christie
davesnursery
Milford, DE

March 22, 2010
12:52 PM

Post #7648203

I is not a species but it reverts back to the palmatum. You will be forever picking the reversions out of this plant. Small price to pay for a pretty plant.

Dave
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 22, 2010
5:11 PM

Post #7648838

I take off green leaves every year from my Butterfly. There aren't many though. It's 25 years old so it's something that you have to keep after. You don't really need a clipper as you can usually strip them by hand if they are new. No reason not to get that done!
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 22, 2010
5:24 PM

Post #7648874

I just discovered 2 teensy weensy branches on it that are Butterfly!!! One all the way on the top, and one in the back!

I am not going to strip it all because there are 2 Butterfly wings on it though, but now the puzzle is solved.

The nursery should have paid closer attention while the tree was under their care! It reverted!
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 22, 2010
6:54 PM

Post #7649115

Now you will have a lovely Palmatum and I hope that the nursery does right by you.
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 22, 2010
9:03 PM

Post #7649343

Doss, they already gave me a Butterfly that IS a Butterfly, I convinced them mine wasn't what the tag said.

So I am happy with both trees.

I wonder if all the variegation will dissapear on that reverted tree. Looks kind of cool, all green with 2 variegated branches.

I'll post a photo tomorrow!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

March 22, 2010
9:14 PM

Post #7649355

I guess my question was right off the bat, why doesn't she want to tell him?
mrs_colla
Marin, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 22, 2010
9:19 PM

Post #7649361

I didn't want to tell him right away, I wanted to wait until it was fully leafed out.
When I started to have suspicions, it wasn't fully in leaf, and I didn't want to make a fool out of myself before I was sure.

But my DH blurted it out anyhow :-)

wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

March 23, 2010
5:39 AM

Post #7649715

jnette go back to the beginning of the thread and that was discussed already

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