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Herbs: Lasagna gardening vs Voles vs Herbs?

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LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

March 24, 2010
10:19 AM

Post #7652667

Here is what I have in my little herb garden, Lovage, Oregano, Lime Light Wormwood. Two different types of Skullcap, Blue Mist Spirea, Russian Sage, Gateway Joe Pye Weed.

I donít have any voles in that bed but in my flower beds that are leaf beds like my herb bed, the ground is hollow from tunnels under them, I dig to plant a flower and itís all tunnels! Iím talking about four inches deep probably by the time I go thru and plant a bunch of plants seems like the garden drops a few inches from the rest of the ground with it caving in!

That tells me voles donít like one or more herbs in my bed and wonder if there is anyone out there that has the same vole problem that I do and if your herb garden has any voles in it :)

Lea
herbalbetty
Middleburgh, NY

March 24, 2010
2:42 PM

Post #7653160

I hate voles!!! Really, really hate voles. Neighbor used to have a cat that helped with the vole population. Now, they are gone. I have found vole holes in rose beds and in strawberry beds and all sorts of other places. But, you are right. None in the lovage or feverfew, sage, thyme, etc beds. I'll have to pay more attention to which beds the voles leave alone. We have nearly 100 raised beds.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

March 24, 2010
6:12 PM

Post #7653734

I have all kinds of cats around here even a bunch of feral cats and they can't keep up with them but I do find it odd that I don't have any in my herb garden there's got to be something with the herb bed, there's at least one herb in there that they don't like I intend on finding out what it is or maybe more than one that they don't like! I hate those suckers too!

I've had to take to putting carpet down to kill grass so I can plant and there is only so much carpet I can beg lol I have one whole side of my yard carpeted now! No more lasagna beds until I figure it out I think the lasagna beds is what draws them by my experience anyway.

This message was edited Mar 24, 2010 9:13 PM
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

March 24, 2010
6:15 PM

Post #7653746

It's not the lasagna beds. I've got them in my garden too, both level rows and raised rows, with and without mulch. Seems they are more prone to tunnel in rows with mulch, though.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

March 24, 2010
6:51 PM

Post #7653837

msrobin, BTW I like your name :) Maybe they just haven't started multipling that much where you are yet lol

I've got mulch on my nectar garden and do have a couple of tunnels not like my other beds yet but it has been there a while mostly moles are messing it up but I started it as a lasagna bed I just have so many voles every where else I'm sure they will be more in that one eventually they say they multiply pretty fast.

First it was the chipmunks and I got a cat so those are gone and we take spells where we have a lot of feral cats plus the neighbor's cats are over here a lot so I have litter boxes in all of my flower beds because I have so many cats around lol Like I said though the cats can't keep up with them and I see them catch sometimes three a day from just one cat I've even seen the hawks get them not that much though.

I have one bed that is just tunnel city underneath the soil when I go to plant I have to add dirt and don't have that much to add but they just go thru again and it's hollow under the top of the soil they don't seem to bother my plants that I can tell it's just frustrating trying to plant more plants and hitting all of those tunnels then I can walk in the bed and all of a sudden the ground caves in under me too, a lot of times!

I should add I guess that the bed I'm talking about I'm taking all of my plants out this year and it's going to be a garden next year so guess I'll have to watch then too but I plan to figure the herbs out they don't like and plant a lot of those lol I've already planted some tyme in the side yard where I'm moving my plants from that bed to solid ground lol
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

March 24, 2010
6:57 PM

Post #7653855

I have no knowledge of voles, PTL, but I have had success planting the old fashioned marigolds around my gardens, the moles stay out. Might help??
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

March 24, 2010
7:43 PM

Post #7653975

What do you call the old fashion marigolds Cathy? I do grow marigolds but just with my tomato plants I'm not much on marigolds, tried the castor bean plant and the moles are like tunneling a foot away from them :) I'm using the grub granules this year to get rid of them a neighbor suggested that as long as it doesn't do away with my worms I'm fine with it I like my worms for this clay soil :)
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

March 24, 2010
7:53 PM

Post #7653999

the old fashioned marigolds are orangey in color, get about a foot or so tall, and the flowers are just 6 or so petals, not the big ones seen at the garden shops. I start them from seed around the edges of the bed, planted closer than suggested. If there is a gap I move them to fill it in. I'm not much on marigolds either, but the work to keep the moles out of my garden. I think it is something in the roots that does it.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

March 24, 2010
8:20 PM

Post #7654038

I'll try that Cathy thank you, now more seeds to sow just what I need lol Thank you ;P
herbspirit
Southborough, MA
(Zone 6a)

April 4, 2010
9:00 AM

Post #7679104

Lebug- It's funny you say that. I mix in herbs in all my gardens and it does seem to help with tunneling. I have so many herbs that I can't contain them to one bed, so I started adding them to all the other nine beds. I have moles rather than voles, but I still hate the tunnels. I live next to a wetland so it's hard to go after the root problem (grubs) with the chemical methods. I'm stuck with Milky spore and Nematodes- which don't seem to be doing the job very well.
I find Tansy and Rue work quite well to repel critters (and the Japanese bettles pests). They also tend to stay away from the chives, garlic, and angelica.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

April 5, 2010
10:36 AM

Post #7681574

Aw I didn't start any rue this year and should have for the butterflies but I have so many plants elsewhere will have to watch for seedlings.

Tell me what is the angelica should I know that plant? I googled it and it still doesn't look familiar, this is one of those days when my brain just won't work LOL

I'm off to check on rue seedlings :)
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

April 7, 2010
10:37 AM

Post #7686821

The rue is going to keep the cats out too, though. I'm betting it's the wormwood that the voles don't like. NOTHING likes wormwood. I grow a bit of it because I think it's beautiful and it has interesting magical properties. If I were you, I would try putting wormwood trimmings in some of the vole tunnels and see if it helps. I too had so many voles my excellent hunter cat could not keep up with them. They love grass that is long in winter and they reproduce like mad then. I tried Mole-Stop, and that worked. It's basically castor oil that you water into the soil. They never came back after that. Someone said something about how it kills the worms, but I did not notice any such effect. I had tons of worms and other bugs in the soil there.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

April 7, 2010
2:01 PM

Post #7687274

Thanks for your comments paracelsus exactly what I'm looking for. I know there is no way I can plant my wormwoods in the flower bed but the clippings do sound like a good idea I'll try that thanks.

I did get some mole-stop last year or maybe the year before that and it didn't work for me with the moles I haven't noticed anything happening to the worms either but was afraid it would having so many moles too it was worth a shot :)

I'm wondering how far apart I should plant rue I have it in a few of beds now but only one plant in each one every bed I have is kind of large, the one bed that is so full of vole holes and tunnels only has one plant in it and it's at the end of the bed I'm going to have to search my seeds and see if I have anymore to start and plant more in that one to try for sure.

My outside cat has decided to stay in the house this year I do believe so I may not have her help this year anyway, I've tried to let her out on nice days and she just looks out the door and turns away lol I may have to depend on the ferals and the neighbor's cats this year :)
dividedsky
Indianapolis, IN
(Zone 5b)

April 28, 2010
5:49 AM

Post #7744625

Regarding castor bean, I've heard of people dropping the seeds in the mole holes. I think they eat them and (of course) die. So maybe it isn't the plant so much as the seeds. Not sure if that's safe around the cats, though.

Today's article is on this very subject: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2850/
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

April 28, 2010
8:40 AM

Post #7745088

Well I always have the Castor Bean plants I think they are pretty lol I have moles digging tunnels about a foot away from them I'll try the seeds in the holes next time I didn't save any seeds last year I just let them reseed. I'll go read the article.

I did find a few rue seedlings and transplanted those to my side yard gardens :) They don't usually reseed that much for me guess the rain did it's thing this winter we've had quite a bit of it of course with summer coming it's slowing down a lot right now lol

I lost a hosta from my side yard looks like it was just drug down in the ground there's a big hole where it was :(

dividedsky
Indianapolis, IN
(Zone 5b)

April 28, 2010
1:01 PM

Post #7745747

Well, dang! If you let the seeds drop, maybe the voles are smart enough not to eat them and that's why they're still alive!

My brother wants to grow castor bean - they are lovely - but I'm a little worried, with my 3-year-old nephew running around. You know that they're extremely poisonous, right? I hate to tell you what you already know. But I'd also hate to have you save seeds and run the risk of someone accidentally getting into them.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

April 28, 2010
2:40 PM

Post #7746033

I just wanted a lot of castor bean reseeding this year and I had a death in the family last year and didn't really have time to go out and save any :) I don't think the oil kills them does it, doesn't it just drive them away?

I don't have any children running around here, wish I did, so I don't have to worry about the seeds thank goodness my only grandson is 16 he worries more about cars lol

I did know they are poisonous but thanks for the heads up anyway it never hurts to mention it :)

The neighbors on the other side of me have about fifty kids it seems sometimes but in reality it's only four where I'm getting ready to plant and worrying about the voles is the side by them they are always playing basket ball in their drive way and the ball is always flying over here I just hope when I go to planting over there the plants survive lol My plants out front survived skate boards flying thru the yard when the boy across the street was growing up so I figure a basket ball isn't as destructive as a skate board lol No castor bean plants over there for sure these kids are about 6 and up to 12 :) My castor bean plants are way out of their reach :)

I've been saving my cat hair too for the holes and putting it around the plants that I have there already.
dividedsky
Indianapolis, IN
(Zone 5b)

April 29, 2010
8:12 AM

Post #7748125

My nephew has stepped on, dug, or dropped a ball on just about everything in the garden. In the end, though, he's much less destructive than the moles and bugs.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

April 30, 2010
11:54 AM

Post #7751563

At least the plants come back the next year for more abuse LOL
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

June 10, 2010
10:48 PM

Post #7877723

paracelsus, thought I'd report some results from trying the rue. I planted a very small rue in the hole that the hosta was missing in and when it rained I thought I hadn't filled the hole up enough and the rain washed a hole in it again because it was pretty hollow under that hole both ways of the tunnel. I filled the hole again and put some cat hair in first and the hole appeared again the next day must have been an active vole hole still I filled it up one more time after that...About three weeks after I planted it I didn't see any evidence of him being there anymore he quit making holes lol

BUT I have another vole hole about 8' away from that one and another that is active a little closer than that! I transplanted five I think rues into my front yard and still need about five more most of the others went in the back of it. I just can't have that much rue out front lol I like it but gessh! lol Maybe as the plants grow they will work better.

My hosta that I thought I lost the vole must have left me a little tease cause I finally had two leaves of it come up but they were tiny and found another hosta in the same shape at the corner of the house forgot I had that one until I saw the tiny one lol So that darn vole ate two of my sun hosta last winter!

A friend of mine said to plant daphs around your hosta for tunneling critters it was just something she had heard. I have five hosta on the side of the house and they are nice and beautiful and I have daphs by them from her. Gonna have to get me some more daph bulbs! I'm always afraid I'll forget where I plant bulbs and will hurt them planting more plants I'm always planting more plants. I planted the daphs by the hosta for the chipmunks and there aren't any there anymore :)

One vole hole is right close to a thyme so thyme doesn't deter them, another hole wasn't too far from a variegated oregano so that crosses that herb out too. I need to try some wormwood cuttings down holes like you were talking about.

cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

June 11, 2010
8:14 AM

Post #7878388

Sure wish I lived closer, my little wiener dog took care of our tunneling critters. She dug them out. It messed up the yard a bit but once they were gone I was able to make it neat again.
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 11, 2010
12:05 PM

Post #7879196

Cathy, can you ship her to me for a bit for my voles?
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

June 11, 2010
12:31 PM

Post #7879262

She's my baby, I'd have to come along :D
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 11, 2010
5:47 PM

Post #7879976

Well, come on...we'll feed ya. Only about 5 1/2 hours.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

June 11, 2010
7:20 PM

Post #7880232

Hmm wonder how far Caneyville, KY is from me I can feed you too might have to call a pizza in don't think you'd want to eat my cooking something I could just never get the hang of lol But I'm on it with the carry outs LOL I'm just across the river from Louisville :)
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 12, 2010
5:51 PM

Post #7882953

Lebug, I'm 1 1/2 hours SW of Louisville. Cathy could come out one evening, stay the night, then head up to your place the next morning. When she's ready to go home, she just has to hop on I-64 and drive straight into St. Louis. Easy trip.

Cathy, so your dauchsund does a pretty good job? Al is talking about getting a beagle. Only problem is Samson likes being an only "child".
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

June 12, 2010
6:43 PM

Post #7883119

She does a great job, but it took a few days. I'll bet a beagle would be good, too.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

June 16, 2010
1:16 PM

Post #7894305

Terriers are usually good rodent catchers, it's what some of them were bred for.
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 17, 2010
4:34 AM

Post #7896021

Thanks, Sheryl. Make have to give some serious thought to a little dog.

I put a cutting of mint into each hole I found in the strawberry rows and noted a lot less berries had bites out of them.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

June 17, 2010
6:04 AM

Post #7896173

Of course, there's always the Castor bean plants - I've heard they're pretty effective. As long as you don't have a horse or something to munch on it and poison themselves, they're also quite attractive!

The one caveat, Robin, is they also *love* to bark, so my recommendation is to go to a shelter so you can watch it, first!
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 17, 2010
4:05 PM

Post #7897658

Not so worried about the barking, but Samson is really good at taking new family "members" off and ditching them...a puppy playmate, a goat...luckily we found them.

I've got castor beans, but Al isn't too crazy about the idea of me planting them.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

June 17, 2010
7:14 PM

Post #7898118

LOL - poor Samson.

Tell Al that tomato plants are poisonous, too.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

June 18, 2010
8:17 AM

Post #7899235

Hard to think of tomato plants as being poisonous too isn't it :)

I'e tried the castor bean plant and for the moles they tunnel right beside it I have some determined moles here and a bunch of them my field looks like something from outer space in the spring with all the tunnels and about this time of year they are all over my beds. Doesn't do anything for the voles either.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

June 18, 2010
8:22 AM

Post #7899247

So much for that one, lol! Determined little beasts...
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

June 18, 2010
9:26 AM

Post #7899388

That's for sure I've heard of them helping other people but not here :(
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

June 18, 2010
10:26 AM

Post #7899553

Your property may be too large for this solution, but before I got my wiener dog, I would stomp the runs then stick the hose down a main hole and flood the nests. When the moles came swimming to the top, I'd scoop them up and put them in a bucket of water with a lid. They can't swim. Not very nice to read about, but it worked.
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 18, 2010
12:30 PM

Post #7899924

Moles supposedly don't like too much noise. Between the mower, the weed eater, Al's radio, plus stomping down the tunnels and dropping poison drops down the holes, we don't see too much activity after a while. The voles OTOH, eat my potatoes and strwaberries. I think I mentioned earlier that stuffing a large cutting of mint into the holes seems to have helped some. At least they started leaving me some strawberries.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

June 18, 2010
1:43 PM

Post #7900312

ah mint forgot about that I did see you mention mint I have some I'll do that thanks!

I'm always stomping the tunnels down from the moles they just go thru again or make another one lol I'm laughing now because stomping those tunnels down helps me let off some steam :)

cathy wonder what time of year they make their nest I have an acre yard and almost an acre field, where my plants are it isn't that big I thought about turning the hose to them the other night I'll get around to that sometime this week right now it is scorching outside lol I just got a trade in and haven't even gone thru the box yet it's so steamy out I opened it up to let them breath waiting on the nice shade :)
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

June 18, 2010
3:07 PM

Post #7900612

LeBug, I don't know, I just did it when I was really mad, haha.
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 18, 2010
7:36 PM

Post #7901443

I read sometime ago that stomping the tunnels down will eventually frustrate the moles and they will move on. Your neighbors might not be too happy about that, though.
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

June 18, 2010
7:42 PM

Post #7901465

:D, I'll have to make sure they go to the neighbor on the left, the crazy on the right has guns!
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

June 19, 2010
9:32 AM

Post #7902578

Hey maybe the crazy neighbor would shoot them lol My neighbors have as many moles as I have and complain about them as much as I do lol I think I have more voles though they don't have leaf beds like I do :(
msrobin
Caneyville, KY
(Zone 6b)

June 19, 2010
1:37 PM

Post #7903127

So shoo them over from your yard and when the neighbors complain about the extra moles, just say ever so sweetly "they must multiply as quickly as rabbits".
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

June 19, 2010
2:37 PM

Post #7903308

LOL I have my share of baby rabbits this year too my cat just chases them until they stop then she stops too and just looks at them too many baby rabbits this year here the feral cats and hawks need to clean them out mine is fed too well to even want to really catch one she just runs thru my beds after them turning all the pots over and trampling my plants LOL She stays in the house at night then I let her out thru the day and she comes back in to cool off, eat and use the litter box 'good kitty' she used to go in my flower beds when the people that used to own her first moved here that's how I first met them now I have her and two of her kittens they don't go out at all the only reason she goes out is because she is so used to being out she makes my life miserable if I don't let her out lol

She doesnít clean the voles out either she ran all the chipmunks away after she first got here but now she is spoiled too much! When the other people owned her she used to leave all kinds of presents on my door step havenít had one of those for over a year now she was just warming me up for the move :) I think the last presents she gave me was moving her two kittens over here that was two years ago :) I told her no to her family and I guess you can tell who won! She needs to earn her way around here with all the vet bills going to have to talk to her about that!
ButterflyChaser
Northeast, AR
(Zone 7a)

July 21, 2010
5:31 AM

Post #7985204

I had never heard of voles until a few years ago. A friend mentioned that voles were stealing her irises. She had 1000's of irises and tended her iris fields daily. While she stood there, a vole would suck an entire iris underground! They love plants!

I have moles; they don't eat my plants, altho they do tunnel thru the root systems sometimes on their way to where they're going. They're after those nasty grub worms (Jap beetle larva) I keep digging up. If you get rid of all the grubs, the moles move on since that's their main diet. This article suggests different ways to rid your lawn of grubs:

http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/problems/lawn-grubs-how-to-get-rid-of-grub-worms.htm

People say a stick of spearmint chewing gum in the mole holes will deter the moles.

Of course getting rid of the grubs doesn't help get rid of the voles, but it does eliminate the Jap beetles that strip rose leaves. I hate it when they do that!

My friend with all the irises couldn't find a way to get rid of the voles, so she ended up digging up all her irises and putting wire netting down, then replanting the irises. That at least prevented those hungry voles from stealing her plants.

This article may help you get rid of your voles:

http://www.bugspray.com/article/voles.html

They offer chemical and natural solutions. (I especially love the coyote urine treatment. LOL)

By the way, if your moles are not too out of hand, their tunneling actually aerates the soil, much like a worm does. I don't even bother removing mine. I only have a few tunnels each year and they don't seem to be getting out of hand. If they're eating those grubs, I'm appreciative. I think it's really too hot and dry here and the soil can pack pretty hard; I think that's why the mole population here doesn't become a problem--too much work to dig thru perhaps during a drought.
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

July 21, 2010
1:47 PM

Post #7986388

Exactly ButterflyChaser lol With those moles around it makes it easier to pull the weeds out too I'm starting to appreciate them in a way here esp. in my new bed where all the crab grass is trying to come up again and wild violets sure makes it easier to dig those out too lol I could use granules but think it's too late for those as many moles as I have I'll use the granules next year for the moles early in the spring after they help me with this bed this year ;)

I planted an annual that was really pretty the other day and I think a vole kept knocking it out of it's hole put some cat hair in it after replanting and it hasn't bothered it since and now per herbsprit I have several rues planted there but doesn't seem to work away from the rues but next year when they are bigger I'm hoping they work and I hope they keep my cat out of the bed like she is talking about above lol She lays on all of my seedlings and breaks them off at the ground, I'm sweating a peony start she broke off at the ground! So if that rue works for that, that will be a blessing lol She is an inside/outside cat so she is fed too well to be a hunter. If I thought she would allow another cat outside I'd get another one but she is starting to keep all of the feral cats out now so I don't think that would work lol

Also, I've heard that daffodil bulbs deter voles and I happened across a bunch of bulbs to dig this fall so I'm planting those by each and every plant that I have in the side yard. I planted some by some hosta by the house and haven't had any trouble with them since then but couldn't afford to buy a bunch. A little ways from the hosta by the house they got my June hosta only three small leaves came up and the same with a Patriot that was out there they were full grown plants! Be glad you don't have these nasty voles! lol

I don't have roses too much trouble for me but I do plant dahlias in pots every year and have only seen one full bloom this year because of those JP beetles! They eat them as fast as they bloom :( No more dahlias for me here this is the last time for them and cannas too! Just not worth storing all of those bulbs I end up giving half of them away in the spring anyway lol

The uses for that coyote urine really trips me out too LOL I'll check that link out thanks and thanks for replying to my thread and it's nice to hear from you, we've had trades in the past but it's been a while :)
ButterflyChaser
Northeast, AR
(Zone 7a)

July 21, 2010
2:02 PM

Post #7986414

LeBug, you can call it "urine therapy". LOL There are all kinds of uses for all kinds of urine these days. A friend says her tomatoes grow HUGE because her hubby "waters" them. My grape tomato plants get huge and my dog does all the "watering". The tomatoes on the back forty get pretty much ignored. I guess I oughta send him out that way. LOL

You know I've found grub worms in my potted plants that are waiting to be planted. I find them rolled up in my rose leaves and stuffed in the pot. Those crazy Jap beetles!

I gave up on dahlias years ago too. They're not even hardy here in zone 7. But I've seen some really pretty ones lately and I'm thinking about building a greenhouse again. Had one years ago and I ended up collecting every tropical I could find to stuff in it. What work!! Nah, I better not get back into dahlias. LOL Let's just pack up and move a little further South, maybe to a zone 8. We could grow almost anything there. I have a microclimate that is almost a zone 8, so I'm always trying to squeeze another tender plant in that area. If I was really smart, I'd just glass in all my gardens. Don't think I haven't considered it! LOL I have zone envy so bad!
LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)

July 21, 2010
4:08 PM

Post #7986708

OMG I have found those grubs rolled in leaves in my pots too! I haven't heard of anyone else finding them that way! Now I know I'm not crazy thank you LOL

My neighbor is always telling me my dog is going to kill my plants I just laugh at her and go on I've never had Max to kill a plant and you are right they do do better lol Not sure about some person going on my tomatoes though would have to think about that one lol

I tried to get my son to move south with me years ago but he wouldn't so guess I'm stuck here couldn't without him he's my bud and now that I have a grandson that is a teen so I can see him it's even worse lol I guess I'm stuck! But it's a good stuck now ;)

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