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Cottage Gardening: Lupines. I just had to add them to my garden.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 12, 2010
5:14 PM

Post #7787885

I saw these gorgeous things at a local nursery on Saturday and had to buy them.. Not one of my usual stops so that might be why I have not seen them before. They had White Flower Farm labels as the grower.

It has been years since I had Lupines in my garden but I couldn't pass these up. They have such beautiful colors. I bought POPSICKLE RED but they had lots of colors and they all started with the word Popsickle.

The Description said these are dense and stocky with flowers tightly packed along thick upright stems. 13-16 inches tall. Flowers from June until mid July. Of course, they are starting to flower now.

You just had to see the colors, the colors were so vivid and striking. Guess you figgured out I really liked the striking colors LOL!!!!

I knew when I saw them I had just the perfect spot. I bought two and planted right away.

Thumbnail by newyorkrita
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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 12, 2010
5:18 PM

Post #7787897

Then since Saturday I have been thinking and thinking about those lupines. Couldn't get them out of my mind. So I drove out to the nursery were I bought the lupines on Saturday and I bought EIGHT MORE lupines :-)). Eight more pots of lupines. I can't do anything halfway. I don't think I understand the concept of getting one of something, ha ha.

Here are the eight pots sitting all together on my driveway after I unloaded the car. I just think these things are so gorgous.

Thumbnail by newyorkrita
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2racingboys
Bartlett, TN
(Zone 7b)

May 12, 2010
8:06 PM

Post #7788457

NICE! Love those! I would have bought that many too ... can't just have one or two lol
I don't have any lupines but have looked at adding them. I may just do it now. :D
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
2:59 PM

Post #7798283

Newyourkria, they are just lovely. Why don't you order some seeds and save the seeds of these lovelies too? I have about 3 flats of lupine ranging from dwarf to tall.
Russells are tall and an old variety, but they are beautiful. Then I found a Russell counterpart more modern: Band of Nobles. I have 2 blooming now from last year and 2 yet to bloom. I have never had them either, and I will never be without them again.
I noticed on Swallowtail seeds that you can get Russells in individual colors. I do have Blue Governor which is Russells, I believe. They are all so scrumptuous looking.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
3:48 PM

Post #7798469

I actually intend to deadhead them as soon as they are done blooming so that they do not even think about making seeds. I read on the label that they might rebloom in the fall IF the bloom stalks are cut back.

I just ordered (on line) the GOVERNOR selection of Russels, which is a blue and white. I saw it and flipped, thought it was lovely. I have just the spot.

Now the thing that I think will be extra great is that the short new hybrids bloom about two weeks earlier than the Russels. So if you have both you can really extend your bloom time.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
3:50 PM

Post #7798474

I have planted all these potted lupines and it REALLY turned out great !!!

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
3:50 PM

Post #7798478

Looking back towards my little pond area.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
3:52 PM

Post #7798482

The way it looks in that newly created garden.

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gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
6:15 PM

Post #7798986

Wow! You actually have an instant garden! I thought I was undisciplined, but you are
worse than I am! I always apologize to people and explain that I spend NO money
on myself except for gardening. I don't really need to do that, do I? I have also met
the most delightful woman here who sells her flowers for $10 a bucket and leaves a can out for people to leave payment. She is crazier than I am about flowers and we get on the phone and just babble varieties.

I have this written down because I always forget:
Gallery Lupin 15-16"
Tutti Frutti 40"
Russell 30-36"
Llu 24"
Band of Nobles Probably the same as Russels

There is one variety that I have not listed that I know nothing about
Doe41
(Audrey) Dyersburg, TN
(Zone 7a)

May 16, 2010
6:28 PM

Post #7799018

Are these Lupines annuals, or perennials? I know nothing about them! They are stunning!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
6:30 PM

Post #7799020

Perrenials. I just fell in love with them.
Doe41
(Audrey) Dyersburg, TN
(Zone 7a)

May 16, 2010
6:33 PM

Post #7799026

OK! gotta have some!
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
7:46 PM

Post #7799281

Actually, there are some annual lupins I believe. The blue bonnet of Texas is an annual lupin, I think. In fact Morella Cherry Lupin is a first year blooming perennial; and it is just beautiful!!

They are very easy from seed. All I do is soak them in hot water (changing the water
several times for 2 days_ it does say one but 2 does the trick.) Then they germinate very quickly. They grow big strong roots very quickly too. The second year they bloom. You could start right now and have dozens of these wonderful flowers next year. That's what I am doing right now. It's easy/peasy!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2010
7:53 PM

Post #7799309

The ones they sell in the local nursery (and also on line at cariouis places) are perennial Lupines. I have the Popsickle Series and there is also the Gallery hybrids. Both are sold as perennial. Mind you these are new to me so only time will tell if they come up next year. However, I expect them to be perennial as the tag said.
pgt
Chalfont, PA
(Zone 6b)

May 17, 2010
4:24 PM

Post #7801854

NYrita, Those lupines are all so beautiful! And, you make me laugh with your plant spending sprees. It's hard not to get carried away. So many beautiful plants, so little money (in my case anyway).

I wanted to show you my lupines that were grown from seed by the winter sowing method in Feb of 2009. They are now blooming, and I just love them. I've read that lupines are short-lived perennials, so I plan to winter sow some lupines every year so that I'll always have some.



This message was edited May 17, 2010 6:28 PM

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pgt
Chalfont, PA
(Zone 6b)

May 17, 2010
4:25 PM

Post #7801861

I also posted these pictures on the perennial discussion group, so please bear with me if you've already seen these pictures :)

Thumbnail by pgt
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pgt
Chalfont, PA
(Zone 6b)

May 17, 2010
4:26 PM

Post #7801865

another

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pgt
Chalfont, PA
(Zone 6b)

May 17, 2010
4:26 PM

Post #7801867

And this one is "gallery pink"

Thumbnail by pgt
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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 17, 2010
5:51 PM

Post #7802132

The pictures are marvelous. I don't visit the perennials forum , don't know why. But I like this forum. As far as buying plants, I am hopeless. I just love my garden so try to make it my version of perfect.

I just love your pictures. You did a great job starting those plants yourself.

gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

May 18, 2010
1:26 PM

Post #7804884

Sorry to butt in, I couldn't find the thread.

I called Bluestone, and they said that they "thought " the sale started this coming weekend. Check for yourself if you need to. This is the ONLINE sale.


http://www.bluestoneperennials.com or 1-800-852-5243

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 18, 2010
2:06 PM

Post #7804985

There is some sort of sale at Bluestone because I just ordered at half off today.

I ordered Woodfield hybrid Lupines at Bluestone. I haven't seen them anywhere else. Placing them was a challenge as they are somewhat tall. But I thought about it overnight and went out to the spot I had in mind today and realized that yes, it would work.

The clincher was that the plants were on sale at half off. So I ordered nine of them.

They are going in the wider bed in back of the garage. They will go in front of that very back row of serviceberry shrubs that are back there and in back of the two rows of daylilies. So they will be inbetween. It will actually look very, very good.

You know I have these lupine cazies really bad. And I know that this will not be the end of it.
pgt
Chalfont, PA
(Zone 6b)

May 18, 2010
3:22 PM

Post #7805230

Sounds really great, Rita! I've always bee happy with my Bluestone orders. And I love their sales.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 18, 2010
4:33 PM

Post #7805362

This is my third order from Bluestone this spring. The first two were sedums. The plants are so small but I couldn't find those sedums anywhere else. These lupines either. The sedums are happily settled in and growing so I hope the lupines will do well also.
Pippi21
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 6b)

June 20, 2010
4:05 AM

Post #7904494

Gloriag..how do you gather seeds from lupines? Or are they called lupins? I keep looking at other people's and wanting to try to grow them. Maybe I'll go to a quality nursery and see if I can buy the starter plants. PGT(Pam)..yours are beauties. Guess those will go on my WS list. what varieties did you WS? I made myself a promise that I'd only WS what I really wanted to add to my flowerbeds next spring and I'd set myself a quota ahead of time. May have to set some priorities come January. Somebody told me where she buys Promix locally so that is definately on my list. I hated MG but cost may dictate I learn to love MG somehow. We'll see what next year brings.
huggergirl
Columbia City, IN
(Zone 5b)

June 20, 2010
5:00 AM

Post #7904570

Betty,I too want to grow Lupines,I need to try harder at starting from seed..I was lazy didnt soak the seed or nic it,well none came up !!!! Maybe we can get some encouragement from someone here.
realbirdlady
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

June 20, 2010
12:02 PM

Post #7905350

If they didn't come up because they weren't scarified (or otherwise had dormancy broken), they should still be down there. I wouldn't be surprised if they appear next year, after a natural winter cycle.
Pippi21
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 6b)

June 21, 2010
11:42 AM

Post #7907900

Maybe some things are best purchased as starter plants. Tam, you will get them to grow somethow. You should see my liatris you sent me! May have to move them to garage flowerbed in the late Fall or early spring so others can see them. Ever tried to grow California poppies?
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

June 21, 2010
2:21 PM

Post #7908352

huggergirl, It takes two days of constantly changing the water so that
it remains as hot as possible. I use a shop light in the laundry to germinate them. It is not hard, but do not skip that essential step!
I had literally dozens of several types ready to be planted out. However the
slugs got to most of them first. I still have a packet of Russell seeds which I will start soaking tonight.
huggergirl
Columbia City, IN
(Zone 5b)

June 22, 2010
4:11 AM

Post #7909499

Well,ok now...Iam hoping that those seeds I planted might sprout next yr. and if I ws any next winter I will soak them and if those plans fail ,I will buy one in a pot !!!!! sounds like a plan to me!!!!
huggergirl
Columbia City, IN
(Zone 5b)

June 22, 2010
4:15 AM

Post #7909505

Betty ,Ive got the big orange ones ,started from seed.Id love some red poppies.I might have to try to grow some.Iam so glad your liatris did well ,I should have told you it was a real mature clump and that they would get 3ft tall..Glad you like them..
Meredith79
Southeastern, NH
(Zone 5b)

June 30, 2010
9:03 PM

Post #7934549

Some companies sell Lupine seeds pre treated. In other words they are already scarified for you. Might be worth looking for. Also I've had good luck just soaking them overnight without scarifying and then planting the seeds. I used very warm tap water.
Meredith79
Southeastern, NH
(Zone 5b)

June 30, 2010
9:08 PM

Post #7934556

Wanted to add that I may of added a little hydrogen peroxide into the water. Just a half a cap full into the small dish of water is what I usually use.
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

June 30, 2010
10:22 PM

Post #7934648

Poppies? I have tried for years and years. I have two healthy seedlings
from hundred of seeds this year. Most of them were no-shows.

But I can really grow lupins. My method is to put them in a styrafoam cup and soak them in really hot water for two full days. I change the water several times each day to keep the water hot/warm when I remember it. For that reason I keep then in the kitchen were I will see them.

The Russells were in the cup two days; I have about 25 germinated by the second day. I am thinking about putting some already germinated ones in the ground to see if they really need to be babied along from this point. I can spare the couple needed for the test.

I have never failed with Lupin when I discovered the 2 day hot water soak (use a little peroxide if it makes you feel better.) The same goes
for delphinium seeds. I read and read on the sites until one woman said, "I just pop them in the freezer over night; it works every time."
She is right. I had a huge crop of seedlings this year. These are two
very simple practices. If you don't believe me, try just a few this
way first,

By the way on my last seeding of them I bought both the delphs and the lupin seeds for less than a $1 each from Crossman's, which is over a hundred years of Co. in Buffalo, NY. What can you lose?

This message was edited Jul 1, 2010 12:24 AM
Polyacre
Rapid City, SD
(Zone 4b)

July 2, 2010
12:48 PM

Post #7938325

Hello Everyone !! Seen the thread on Lupines and just wanted to chime in... Love Love them !!! I have grown them for 8 years now. They are still my favorite in the garden. Mine have all finished blooming and I have many many seeds, and pretty sure mine are all Russell mix. If anyone is interested in trading some seeds let me know.

Paula

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

July 2, 2010
12:53 PM

Post #7938335

Hi Paula- Many lupine lovers here :-))

Mine are doing well that I planted this spring. This in sprite of the baking hot weather we had been having this spring.

Here is a picture of that lupine garden area taken today. The lupines are just green leaves now and the daylilies have taken the spotlight.

Thumbnail by newyorkrita
Click the image for an enlarged view.

evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

July 25, 2010
11:01 AM

Post #7995604

Hello! May I share my experience here with you? I started some lupines from seed this winter on my back porch. (Not the standard W/S'ing method...LOL!) I originally put them in the peat pots and they started to get mold on them. Now these are the peat pots that expand and they have the plastic cover on them. So, when I saw the mold I thought it would be best to remove them and just put them in regular cell packs and get them out as soon as they germinated. They did not all germinate at once so I had to check them daily. Later in the spring, when they began to grow I had them on the balcony and I bumped them and they all fell over...YIKES! After being ever so careful to transplant the tender seedlings...so I did what I could to save them. Out of about 2 dozen, I think there were 12 or so that recovered all my bumbling. They are now planted out in my new "Cottage Garden" bed. Some were Russells and the others were Tuttii Fruitti mix. They are still quite small, so I have not yet taken their pictures, but when they grow up, I will do so. If you think that they cannot be transplanted or that you need to put them in peat pots, well don't worry. Just be very careful and be sure to transplant them when they are small into larger pots. I expect great things from them next spring...

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

April 27, 2011
12:59 PM

Post #8524431

Unfortunatly I had poor sucess with the Lupines in this garden overwintering. Most simply died out. But we had such a heat spell last summer that I am trying again and hoping for sucess.

So since only afew of those Lupines in the Lupine garden came back this spring (and they are small plants no were near as big as they were last year when planted) yesterday I went out to the nursery were I bought the Lupines last year and bought 10 new ones. I just planted them right now. No pictures yet because they still have to be mulched which I am not going to do today. It's going to rain and I have other garden chores to do today before I finish up.
But in spite of my lack of success first thing this spring the Lupine garden is back.

I was early going to buy them as there are no flower stalks yet and last year the flowers showed color when I bought them. So I had to go by the color named on the tag. But even within the colors there is a variation so if you can see the blooms you can pick out the shades you like the best. But I was so worried that they would sell out (they did quickly last year) that I wanted them now so that I would have my Lupine Garden back. My nightmare was that I would go to find the plants all sold so early is better LOL!

I picked 4 of the blue, 4 of the red and two pink. I didn't have pink last year.


gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

April 27, 2011
3:50 PM

Post #8524744

I bought 3 or 4 at the nursery; I only know they are Russel.
But I WS and got some babies, and I tried an experiment. When the
lupins were up, I thought pregerminated seed might work. So I soaked
some Tutti Fruitti in hot water for one or two days, I did some Russels
too. Then I made a little trench in one of my beds...nothing for the
longest time. Then they popped up and many have their first leaves.
I have about ten like that already. I have to transplant them early because they don't like it. I did the same thing with delphinium seeds;
so far nothing has popped up.

Also, I have been taking cuttings from chrysanthemum and phlox.
I have about 30 phlox cuttings (you are supposed to pinch both to
make them bushier.) I also did the same thing with a lovely white
quill about 18" tall. I bought them from Bluestone., Now I have
about 15-17 of those rooting too. Earlier, I separated a couple of
campanulas Telham Beauty and they all took too. If you have an
established garden, seeds are good, but lots of cuttings and
divisions are wonderful!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

April 27, 2011
6:43 PM

Post #8525141

gloriag How long did it take to root phlox from cuttings? Am thinking about doing several plants this year. Also was before or after bloom? And if before bloom, does that make blooms for current year shorter? Good Luck, Kathy
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

April 27, 2011
9:26 PM

Post #8525453

evelyn_inthegarden wrote:Hello! May I share my experience here with you...yada, yada, yada... I expect great things from them next spring...


So far 6 out of the 12 have survived the gophers and who knows??? At least three of them are a really nice size and the others are getting there...I'll let you know, Rita and all...

Oh, yeah, and I have more started, this time, no mold. I also have bush lupine and more started...

gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

April 27, 2011
10:07 PM

Post #8525483

When they get around 8" tall, take a 3.5 to 4" cutting. I use a community
pot and promix soil. I did over do it with the mother plants a couple
of times, but that does not matter because I have their progeny
all over my garden. I might have 15 from one plant. Also, if you
buy a potted plant, you can pull the plant out of the pot (plant plus soil)
you can find baby plants growing in the root mass on the outside.
They grow like cuttings too. I regard a phlox as a phlox factory.
So far I have taken cuttings from plants I started last year. It is a lot
of fun to do. 15 would be over the entire summer.

After you take the cutting, pinch off all the leaves on the stem and
leave the top two or three which are very small. That way the plant
focuses on growing roots. When taking cuttings, at least cut some
leaves off the stem so the plant will make roots not feed the leaves.
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

April 27, 2011
10:12 PM

Post #8525485

Pippi, I believe lupins are in the pea family. They produce pea pods
of seeds. Let them dry on the plant or practically dry and then remove
the pea/seeds. Lupins respond to being soaked in hot water which you
change once or twice over 24 hours. This softens them and prepares
them to germinate. I soak mine, changing the water more frequently,
for a couple of days then plant them.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

April 28, 2011
10:05 AM

Post #8526278

I tried sowing some annual Lupine seed this spring that I have bought from American Meadows. I direct sowed it dry and let the rain and mother nature take care of softening it. Many have sprouted and are on their second set (true leaves) of leaves. I am very curious how this will turn out.

I never tried annual lupine seed. Always just bought plants.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

April 28, 2011
7:01 PM

Post #8527341

I love your lupine story. Here's mine: two years ago, having heard that lupines had once been a staple on the old garden I'm trying to resurrect, ignorant of special needs, I tried sowing some, trusting in my fairly extensive previous gardening skills in another zone. 3 little weak things came up, insignificant in my view of the general scheme of things, and I stuck them somewhere, moved them a few times, and eventually one survived. Last spring much to my amazement, it bloomed, a glorious paean to blueness. Wow! I was hooked.

I started buying seeds. Joined DG in December and started boning up. Couldn't WS, but soaked, nicked, chilled, boiled...I am now the proud parent of 5 Chatelaine (pink) and 5 Band of Nobles (mixed) and a few other odds and ends, including a couple of plugs acquired at a local nursery.

So happy lupine to us both, and happy spring.

Pam
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

April 28, 2011
7:15 PM

Post #8527372

BTW, gloriag, the 24 hour freeze works on lavender too. Last week beforee leaving for a few days I froze the seeds in a moist paper towel, then sowed, covered, put on a heat mat, and when I got back 1 week later they were all up strong!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

April 29, 2011
10:11 AM

Post #8528404

I know some people have thought Lupines don't do well around here. But years ago before they built condos everywhere there used to be a big wild field around here that had a sea of lupines blooming each spring. So if they grew wild, they must be able to grow in a well kept garden. I think the problem was last summers excessive heat spell with 6 weeks of no mid summer rain. Of course I watered but its never the same thing.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

April 29, 2011
11:22 AM

Post #8528509

Yes, we have native lupines here as well that bloom in the spring, though I believe that they are all annuals. I am going to be trying more kinds of lupine here and see what does best. You are right, Rita, they do not like the heat and would prefer it to be cool. Still our climate gets hot here every summer. Maybe that is why the annual lupines do so well as they just go to seed when the temps get hot and then they die.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

April 29, 2011
11:38 AM

Post #8528536

I am trying annual Lupines this spring. I direct sowed them early March and then again Mid March as nothing was comming up. But it must have just been too early when I was first looking as they are comming up very well. Some are just starting with their first leaves while others are bigger and you can deffinately tell the typical lupine looking leaves. Still, these don't have the stunning vibrant colors of the perennial cultivated Lupines. I got my seeds from American Meadows.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

April 29, 2011
12:35 PM

Post #8528613

Well, let's continue our lupine experiments and see what works for our very different areas. Thanks, Rita!

Anyone else growing lupines here in this forum?
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

April 29, 2011
7:58 PM

Post #8529439

My experiment of soaking lupine seeds in warm/hot water then
sowing outside is actually working. I gave up after a while, but it was
too early. After several weeks I have about 20 with first Lupine leaves. I just cannot
remember which are Tutti fruitti which are Russell. I do have about
3 WS pink gallery coming up in the jug too. Already I have planted
a few around. This year I plan to have a good number in the
weedy side beds. Our nursery has a wide selection of perennials in
small pots (& big plants,) so I bought 4 at $1.39 each; they are Russell
mixed.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

April 29, 2011
9:30 PM

Post #8529515

I sow all lupine outside in winter. I guess you could call it wintersowing even if I did not put them in jugs. They are in peat/coir plugs now about half of them germinated without prior soaking. It is just that the pots get so wet that they do not need soaking. them I let them dry a bit before covering them completely. At first they started to mold, but when I took their cover off, they did just fine this time. I need to transfer them into either jumbo 6-packs or into 3 inch pots next. The last time I put them into regular size jumbo packs, very carefully and they seemed to be fine.

Now, in their second season they are getting up to size. I know I should fertilize, so maybe that is what I will do tomorrow after weeding that bed. That bed is really looking healthy with all new tiny starts, most from Bluestone or from seed, except the Delphinium 'Blue Mirror'. They are beginning to come back to life from their winter's rest.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 1, 2011
9:10 AM

Post #8532207

Here it is all done, planted and mulched.

Thumbnail by newyorkrita
Click the image for an enlarged view.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 1, 2011
9:13 AM

Post #8532213

And another view.

Thumbnail by newyorkrita
Click the image for an enlarged view.

evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 1, 2011
7:48 PM

Post #8533428

Good job, Rita! Nice!
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

May 2, 2011
5:37 AM

Post #8533947

I have not seen lupin Popsicle advertised often. I found these
addresses for seed searches, and I thought some of you might
like to use them to find the special seeds you're looking for.

http://www.seed-finder.com
2) http://www.motherearthnews.com/find-seeds-plants.aspx
3) http://www.omniseedsearch.com/
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 2, 2011
4:48 PM

Post #8535394

Thanks, Gloria!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 4, 2011
12:32 PM

Post #8539529

The Lupines have been growing like crazy since they got out of their pots and into the ground. Have gotten much more green.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 4, 2011
12:35 PM

Post #8539530

Flower Spikes are coming.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 4, 2011
12:39 PM

Post #8539537

I like this longer view as one can see the lupine garden in relation to the side yard were it is located. My old (and needs redoing) driveway there and the daylilies on the slope by the driveway side.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

May 4, 2011
9:08 PM

Post #8540591

Very nice!
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 5, 2011
11:13 AM

Post #8541625

Wow, Rita! I can hardly wait to see the blooms!
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 5, 2011
11:18 AM

Post #8541633

Here's a page I found, if anyone is more interested in lupines...

http://www.lupins.org/lupins

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 5, 2011
3:20 PM

Post #8542117

I got my plants from Annies Nursery that I had ordered today. Got some Delphs too but I got 4 Lupine plants called THOMAS CHURCH that I saw in her catalog and flipped over. Great plants, I am very pleased. Got them all planted today. I put the Lupines out front in a spot were I had planted 4 The Govenor last spring but those died on me by fall. So I keep trying. But these are even prettier than The Govenor. Blue and yellow instead of the usual Blue and white.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 6, 2011
2:03 PM

Post #8544187

Is Annie's Nursery online or is it local to you? There is one online based in Nebraska.

I have shopped at Annie's Annuals of which they have perennials as well. They are highly rated here at the Garden Watchdog. I did get a yellow bush lupine and a white lupine for my White Flower Border.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 6, 2011
2:20 PM

Post #8544216

It is Annies Annuals which changed to Annies Annuals and Perennials and now Annies Nursery. Mail order in California I think. Great stuff and an amazing catalog.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 6, 2011
3:58 PM

Post #8544414

One of the flower stalks is starting to get some color. It's the big Lupine Watch at my house until they finish blooming. I do just love, love, love the looks of the blooms.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 6, 2011
4:30 PM

Post #8544458

Yes, it must be the same as Annie's Annuals (and Perennials) is here in CA, though southwest of here near San Francisco.

psychw2

psychw2
(Pat) Kennewick, WA
(Zone 5b)

May 7, 2011
1:35 PM

Post #8546076

I like the long shot picture best, it's puts things into perspective.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 7, 2011
1:55 PM

Post #8546104

Thats what I liked about that view. I have all these little "gardens" but they all tie together somehow. In that picture you can really see some of the garden layout of the area. Shrubs in the backround then the slope planted in daylilies. Looking down the driveway, one can just get a hint of the half round rose planter terraces out near the sidewalk.

psychw2

psychw2
(Pat) Kennewick, WA
(Zone 5b)

May 7, 2011
2:53 PM

Post #8546209

Its "long shots" that tell the BIG story!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/779605/?hl=cement bench these are pictures of a home I sold about 7 years ago now. I will never have the time or money to duplicate the gardens I had there. Oh well...

This message was edited May 7, 2011 2:06 PM

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 10, 2011
2:17 PM

Post #8552768

The first one of the Lupines started blooming.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 10, 2011
2:19 PM

Post #8552776

The Lupine Garden today.

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evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 10, 2011
10:26 PM

Post #8553887

Very lovely, Rita! I look forward to seeing them all in bloom...it will be amazing!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

May 12, 2011
2:55 PM

Post #8558527

Here are my lupines from last summer which were grown from seed (Russell Hybrids). Even have some babies in the garden this spring, glad too, cuz 1 of my plants looks alittle iffy this spring, tho is still early here (15" of snow overnight and this morning, lol.) Good Luck, Kathy.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 12, 2011
3:00 PM

Post #8558536

You had 15 inches of snow, now? Oh my gosh I would go crazy if we had snow this late in the year. Many of my annuals are planted and my tomatoes and cucumbers are in for more than a week already.

I am getting more color on more bloom stalks that seem to be literally appearing overnight. I just love all the colors and color combos.
sempervirens
Northern, NJ
(Zone 6b)

May 13, 2011
3:25 AM

Post #8559530

I am very excited to find a native lupine, Lupinus perennis, commonly known as Sundial lupine.
I just purchased 3 tiny plants at Bowman Hill Nature Preserves native plant sale.
Anyone familiar with this native lupine?
I have no experience growing it but I love the fact that is beautiful and native.
I've placed them in a dry sunny bed with a few silenes, S. caroliniana and S. virginica and am hoping for the best.
Any suggestions?

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 13, 2011
7:54 AM

Post #8560015

I am not familiar with your native Lupine although I know there are different ones. Not too sure about your dry area, I think lupines want plenty of water althought they need good drainage.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

May 13, 2011
3:44 PM

Post #8560982

I have a native lupine here at 6800+ft, grows wild here on my acreage. I believe is related to Texas Blue Bonnet, will get pix and post, might be a couple of weeks. Yup, ended up with almost 18" of that white stuff yesterday,... todays has all melted, phooey still to wet for garden work tho, or should I say garden enjoyment,lol. Anyone able to id this wildflower?

Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy
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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 14, 2011
3:16 PM

Post #8562805

Lupine garden

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 14, 2011
3:22 PM

Post #8562813

Lupines today

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 14, 2011
3:25 PM

Post #8562817

lupines

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 14, 2011
3:28 PM

Post #8562821

more lupines

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 14, 2011
3:30 PM

Post #8562822

lupines blooming

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evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 14, 2011
11:09 PM

Post #8563455

Lovely, Rita!

I will have to take a picture of my purple (-blue) bush lupine.

I planted a yellow one for my new "hot bed". That one is still small...not sure if it will flower the first season.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2011
8:55 AM

Post #8564163

I wish I could plant Lupines all around. But I have to keep them were I can make sure I remember to water them each day come the hot summertime. This lupine garden is very near the hose LOL!
sempervirens
Northern, NJ
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2011
9:30 AM

Post #8564230

I was wondering if my Sundial Lupines would bloom this year since they are also very small.
Yours are blooming already rita. Do you have any idea if they can also bloom a little later in the season?

Thumbnail by sempervirens
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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2011
10:11 AM

Post #8564297

Your plants are small. I did buy small plants mail order last year from American Meadows and planted them between my lily plants off to the side. They all died, many before the end of the summer but none overwintered. They didn't even think about putting up bloom stalks.

On the other hand I also bought small plants from Bluestone Perennials, planted them in another garden and they thrived. But too small to think about blooming last year. They all came up this spring and at least one bloom stalk now, which is the second year.

Thumbnail by newyorkrita
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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2011
10:15 AM

Post #8564301

But I am stubborn so I bought new small mail order plants and planted them between the lillies again in the same section I tried it in last year. This time I got the plants from Graceful Gardens.

I really think the small first year plants don't bloom until the second year. But that is just my opinion, not necessarily fact.

Thumbnail by newyorkrita
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gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2011
4:46 PM

Post #8565207

I have three or four from last year's seedlings. The only one blooming
is Gallery Pink; it has five flower spikes! I soaked another pack of Tutti
Frutti for the past 36 hours or so and planted them in a summer sowing
bottle. My experiment of planting soaked seeds turned out quite well too.
I am hoping those small plants will bloom next year.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2011
5:00 PM

Post #8565247

One can never have too many lupines. I just looked up Tutti Fruitti and the collors look striking.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

May 15, 2011
5:25 PM

Post #8565333

My one blue Russell that bloomed last year started an obsession. I tried starting a few types this winter indoors- soaking, chilling, Deno- and ended up with 5 pink Governeur and 6 Band of Nobles mix seedlings. I've just planted them all, and have my fingers crossed they'll thrive. The one that bloomed blue last year I bought as a plug. I had one seedling I'd gotten just by luck the typical way out of a whole packet,. Both survived the winter. I'm sure at least one of them will bloom this year, if not both. In this zone, it's early yet, I don't see any signs of flower stalks.

In my old garden in the Hamptons, I never even bothered because I heard they don't make it through the winter. I guess 2 zones apart makes a huge difference, but if I'd known how spectacular they are I might have done the same as you, Rita, and treated them like annuals. They are certainly worth it!

Pam

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2011
5:58 PM

Post #8565438

They shouldn't be annuals here. I am sure it was the excessive record breaking heat we had last July and the six weeks of no rain that done them, not the winter. And some of them did come up this spring. I am hoping these new ones do better than last years did.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 15, 2011
7:24 PM

Post #8565677

Yes, I started quite a few from seed last year, if some will remember my antics. They did not bloom the first year. Some are much bigger now, and others are medium in size. Since it snowed today, I have no idea when they will actually bloom. I have about 9 plants I think. The one side of the bed was attacked by gophers or ground squirrels so those lupine are all gone. I am not going to try and transplant them...just save more seeds and start more this year.

I purchased a white lupine for the white flower border, and hope to save the seeds and start more.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 15, 2011
8:20 PM

Post #8565813

warriorswisdomkathy wrote: Anyone able to id this wildflower?


How tall is it? Can you show the leaves in a picture? I am just guessing - Linaria triornithophora

Also, I am interested in some seeds of your high-elevation lupine. Do you know its name?

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2011
11:35 AM

Post #8567122

more lupine views

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2011
11:37 AM

Post #8567124

lupines again

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pgt
Chalfont, PA
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2011
3:39 PM

Post #8567666

Rita, you should be proud of those gorgeous lupines!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 16, 2011
3:46 PM

Post #8567680

I am. I just love them and keep looking at them and taking pictures of them. So many of the bloom spikes are still green and small, they have lots and lots of bloom to come.
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

May 17, 2011
6:02 AM

Post #8568831

I forgot that in addition to Dwarf Lulu there are the Minarettes as well; they
are very small, composed of pink, yellow, lavender, and one other pastel.
Also, if started early the can bloom the same year!!!! Either Summerhill or
Swallowtail seed.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 20, 2011
4:19 PM

Post #8576322

Lupines on a dark rainey day today.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 20, 2011
4:22 PM

Post #8576326

Lupine closeup

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 20, 2011
4:25 PM

Post #8576334

another view

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evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

May 20, 2011
8:01 PM

Post #8576770

Wow, Rita! Those are gorgeous! Just lovely!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 24, 2011
2:16 PM

Post #8584760

Lupines today.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 24, 2011
2:18 PM

Post #8584766

again

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 24, 2011
2:19 PM

Post #8584769

Last one for today.

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pgt
Chalfont, PA
(Zone 6b)

May 24, 2011
2:27 PM

Post #8584787

love
museumgirl
Royal Oak, MI
(Zone 6a)

May 24, 2011
4:43 PM

Post #8585025

I managed to start some from seed! hurrah! I have about 1/2 dozen little plants with pretty lupine leaves coming up. My larger, last-year lupines are getting ready to bloom, and look really impressive already. Hopefully these "babies" will grow all summer and bloom next year? I knicked them with a serrated knife, soaked overnight-two nights, actually, because we had a thunderstorm, and planted them about a month ago. They came up with two leaves that looked liked bean plants, but the next set of leaves are distinctly lupines. I don't usually have too much luck with seeds, but these are doing okay. Thanks for the inspiration, rita, yours are too beautiful!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

May 24, 2011
4:50 PM

Post #8585052

I think everyone in Lupine growing areas like the north should grow them. I know it's too hot down south to grow them. But they are just that beautiful.

Hope yours grow and bloom like crazy.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

May 25, 2011
1:23 AM

Post #8585797

I planted my babies yesterday. I also grew from seed- soaked 24 hours, them used the Deno method, damp paper towels in baggies in the fridge. I ended up with a dozen, some Band of Nobles mix and some tall pink Chatelaine.

The one that bloomed blue last year is about to do it again, and there are several little babies from that here and there. I tried potting up a couple but they didn't make it, so I'm leaving the rest in place to see what they do. I think I'll try WS-ing more this fall before we close the house for the winter. After seeing that one bloom last year I'm like you, Rita- just have to have those gorgeous things in my garden!

Pam
seaotter301
Elmhurst, IL
(Zone 5a)

July 26, 2011
8:54 PM

Post #8717523

Lupine trouble! My plants are busy growing and a beautiful bud forms, starts to turn color and "flower" and then droops and dies? Any ideas what might be happening?
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

July 29, 2011
2:10 PM

Post #8723673

newyorkrita wrote:I think everyone in Lupine growing areas like the north should grow them. I know it's too hot down south to grow them. But they are just that beautiful.
Hope yours grow and bloom like crazy.


OK, Rita! I do not know what you mean by north and south. Yes the summers are hot here, but the winters are cold with snow every year. I live in the Sierra foothills in Northern CA at about 3500' in elevation. It has been in the 80's for the last couple of weeks and I have to water a lot, but lupines are not all that I grow. This is the first year the ones I grew from seed are blooming. I also have some bush lupine, which bloom well every year. I have planted a new bush lupine with yellow flowers, but it won't bloom until next year. I will be starting more from seed as well. They seem to respond well to sowing outdoors during winter.
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

July 29, 2011
6:58 PM

Post #8724250

I have band of nobles seedlings. Most all of them have only one leaf. It is hot here at times.
I am thinking about transplanting them to one big pot until it gets cooler. I had some seedlings
early, but only a few survived. If these don't, then I will order new seeds!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

August 1, 2011
7:47 PM

Post #8731025

evelyn... sorry not sure of name, think it might be texas bluebonnets but not quite as dark, will look for plants but not sure if I will find, had a bad hail storm 3 weeks ago. Also, is yelllow lupine or thermopsis, I have Thermopsis and they look similar to lupines.. Also ref. linaria, probably isn't, linaria flowers a bit further apart on stem, these are grouped closely,( just got linaria purperea Cannon Went in a trade this summer, love that I got them replaced!)...Gloriag..got seeds for a deep red and purple if intrested and they are fresh. I have let my lupines reseed in the garden, think they should bloom next season. This year not so great on my Lupines, some bug got to them and defoliated as they were getting ready to bloom, was sad, next year tho... Isn't that the way of gardeners tho, eternal optimists. LOL. Mama racoon and four babies, from last summer, mama's been back to visit the last three or four nights. Good Luck, Kathy

Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy
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psychw2

psychw2
(Pat) Kennewick, WA
(Zone 5b)

August 1, 2011
8:08 PM

Post #8731078

Cute, but they can sure be destructive little buggers!
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 2, 2011
8:16 AM

Post #8731822

Thanks Kathy Warrior, I will take a rain check on them because I have about 15 seedlings in a pot;
I will plant them soon. I have black and deep green nylon fine netting that I can use as shade
cloth.

My motto is "never give up." I have no idea how many packets of seeds I have germinated. I do know
that what I have surviving in the garden in is a small number by comparison. I do the same thing
with delphiniums. Whenever I see a package in a store (usually they are cheaper there,) I buy a
packet. Right now I have Blue Jay Pacific Giants and a mix of Pacific Giants. Also, I have seedlings
growing outside and seedlings under lights. This year I fell in love with Bellamosum because they
have branches of intense cobalt blue flowers. They make more flower stems and produce really
viable seeds. With lupin and delphs I just automatically start as many as I can accommodate because
I feel there will be some survivors. It is a scatter shot approach. Surely some will survive. I do
have around 7 in one bed and about 5 in another. This has been a harsh year as many of you
have experienced, but the little things made it so far. Of course, some didn't- that's to be
expected. I just keep on growing seedlings.

evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

August 2, 2011
1:26 PM

Post #8732335

Hi, Kathy!

Yes, I have Thermopsis growing as well as Baptisia to supplement the "lupine category", though they both may be more well-suited to growing here as well. They surely do not need as much water in the summer.

This is the latest lupine growing this year and so far, the nicest one, IMHO...

Thumbnail by evelyn_inthegarden
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evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

August 2, 2011
1:32 PM

Post #8732342

Here is the light pink...

Thumbnail by evelyn_inthegarden
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evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

August 2, 2011
1:38 PM

Post #8732354

A white one...

Thumbnail by evelyn_inthegarden
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evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

August 2, 2011
1:46 PM

Post #8732366

Does anyone have any bush or "tree" lupines?

Thumbnail by evelyn_inthegarden
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kiseta
Augusta, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 3, 2011
1:00 PM

Post #8734628

Just found this picture on the website, I think it is Wy. I saved it as my background to enjoy the blue flowers.

Thumbnail by kiseta
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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 3, 2011
2:49 PM

Post #8734865

evelyn- The red one is stunning.

kiseta- What a beautiful picture.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

August 3, 2011
4:04 PM

Post #8735058

Thanks, Rita!

It is a "cherry red". These are all from a mixture of Russell lupines from seed. I will start more. Maybe I should start some in fall and then they might bloom sooner as they did not bloom the first year that I planted them. They are not available locally at the nurseries. I have saved the seeds from the light pink and the medium pink. Actually I have saved seeds from the other one (medium pink with yellow) in case anyone wants to try them. Since they are from seed, I would not be sure that they will bloom the same color, but we will see...

This was edited to say that I have not yet collected the seeds from the darker one. If anyone wants to try the medium pink, I do believe I have enough seeds for a few trades. How many seeds should I put in each trade?

This message was edited Aug 4, 2011 2:46 PM

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

March 23, 2012
1:02 PM

Post #9054191

Things do not look good for the future of the Lupine Garden here. Either last fall or over the winter almost all the plants seem to have died. I do see one or two coming up but not much.

That is what happened last spring. I had limited return. But being stubborn I went and bough new plants and redid the Lupine garden. But if I can't get them to last more than the year they are planted this is not good. Don't know yet what I will do this year.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

March 24, 2012
11:07 AM

Post #9055269

Rita ~ Did you not save any seeds from the ones that you gtrew?

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

March 24, 2012
1:16 PM

Post #9055381

Yes, I did. I have some that I picked but I haven't tried sowing any.

psychw2

psychw2
(Pat) Kennewick, WA
(Zone 5b)

March 24, 2012
1:17 PM

Post #9055384

Glad to hear that Rita!

This message was edited Mar 24, 2012 9:17 PM

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

March 24, 2012
3:13 PM

Post #9055542

I am not a very good seed sower. It has to be easy seeds or I manage to mess it up. Like I will most likey just scatter the seeds there and hope for the best which is probably not what one is supposed to do.
gloriag
Floyd, VA
(Zone 6b)

March 25, 2012
7:28 AM

Post #9056210

I soak mine two to three days and they usually germinate; but I lose most in the winter
too. They are just so beautiful!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

March 25, 2012
10:20 AM

Post #9056368

That is why I just keep buying more plants. The lupines are stunnning in bloom. And if every single one died I would take it as a sign that I just can't grow them. But always mixed success, some die and some make it and come up the following spring. That means it gives me hope that I can establish them and I keep trying!

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

April 22, 2012
8:36 PM

Post #9093650

I loved the pictures of your popsicle garden. :)

Don't quit! They were/are exquisite.

I started some from seed Shirley sent and they were actually one of the first things that sprouted of all my "WS" seeds. They have great foliage and sturdy little things. I love the foliage. I have never grown them, not having had enough room. I was disappointed to find that they do not bloom the first year from seed. I would certainly be tempted like you to purchase the plants.

A.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

April 23, 2012
10:06 AM

Post #9094417

They like most perennials will not be big enough plants first year from seed. And then most likely it will get too hot for them were you are and the plants will die. Mine mostly died. I have four small plants came up this spring. I will not be buying more this year as it is an expensive project for what turns out to be annuals. Instead I am spending lots of money on bulbs this year so don't want to spend too much. Instead I plant to get a flat of snapdragons and plant them there for this season, then we will see what I decide again next year. The really odd part is that I have lupines in another gardenbed over on the other side of the house and these come back nicely and are now on their third year here.

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