Garden Talk: Anyone used mycorrhiza?

Hampton, GA(Zone 7b)

May not be spelled right, but it's close. Has anyone used this? It is an organic root stimulator. Would like to hear of anyone's experience with it. Also looking for an inexpensive source for it. Thanks.

Hampton, GA(Zone 7b)

Mycorrhiza------just found out this is the correct spelling.

Didn't know you could buy this. Mycorrhiza is a relationship between the root systems of certain plants (notably ground orchids) and a sort of fungus which enables the fungus to feed at the same time as enabling the root system to grow. As I understand it, the trick is to get the right balance between the beneficial effect of the fungus and its ability to 'eat' the plant.

It's probably used most in labs where they propagate orchids, as I should think it's difficult to get the 'dose' right, which would be easier on a large scale.

Maybe you could get some information on names/sources by using a search engine?

This site has info about a product called Bio-Vam, and you can get a sample for $3 + s&h, or a quart for $23.56 + s&h.

http://www.tandjenterprises.com/

Efland, NC(Zone 7a)

I also just thought the mycorrhiza was a natural-occurring fungus...now I find it is a relationship. Glad to know that Mary. lace, if you want a good organic root stimulant you could always try willow water...it works extremely well.

Hampton, GA(Zone 7b)

Thanks to all of you for your help. I have bought this in tablet form from people who told me it was a fungus. Have read up on it and read that it was a "relationship". Was looking for it in a liquid form. Will check site Mary named.

Hampton, GA(Zone 7b)

Thanks to all of you for your help. I have bought this in tablet form from people who told me it was a fungus. Have read up on it and read that it was a "relationship". Was looking for it in a liquid form. Did use a search engine to find a source, but found none. Will check site Mary named.

Hi people,

I wouldn't like you to think I knew what I was talking about. I thought it was the fungus, too, but when I checked to make sure before I posted, my book said it was the relationship between the roots and the fungus. I use Metacrawler for most of my searches, and it came up with quite a few for mycorrhiza, but most of them were beyond me!

Richfield Springs, NY(Zone 4a)

Here's a link to a product that was given to me by a nurseryman, when I bought some B+B trees. He swears by the little tablets. http://www.plantrevolution.com/

Lyndeborough, NH

FYI

This stuff helps woody plants, trees and shrubs

IF and a big if per VA Tech and U Colo, the soil phoshouros
is 50 ppm or less.

It is also heat sensitive, Soil temps above 90F will kill it.

If you have good soil tilth, a lot of organic material, Bio Vam is a waste of money.

UNH refused to spend $$ on a grant for the study.

No US Agi school supports Mr Bio Vams claims.

Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

The research papers Byron quotes are talking about soluble phosphorous...It's rare to find free phosphorous in soils at 50 ppm or higher, unless you add a bunch of chemical fertilizer like Miracle Grow.

Mycorrhiza helps woody plants like tress and shrubs - that's half-truth. It also helps most vegetable plants... in fact 230,000 species of plants are helped by VAM fungi... all turf grasses and thousands of flowering plants.... to include the majority of the garden veggies we all grow.

UC Davis has three groups right now doing studies on Grapes using BioVam. Universities in South Korea buy BioVam on a regular basis for use as a mycorrhizal inoculum in their classes and experiments. There is a mycologist at a small town not far from Spokane (at Eastern Washington University) who was telling the proprietor of a store where BioVam is sold that BioVam is being discussed frequently in the academic community because it is one of the few products on the market that works.

I have a customer and friend in Alaska, John Evans, who has 9 Guinness book world records set for growing giant vegetable plants. He used BioVam for the first time going into this year. The results have blown his socks off!! John has figured out how to grow really nice looking plants using organic means. He makes a superb compost / potting soil high in microbe activity and he uses compost teas and an assortment of ogranic products to achieve his world records. When he added BioVam to the roots of his plants, he saw a level of performance he never thought was possible. Plants trippled in size the first week in his inside starting trays! He had celery 8 inches tall at the end of the second week. He is a master gardener and is so impressed with how BioVam works with his organic technology, he now wants to sell and promote BioVam. You can see some of his comments and pictures of his plants on our web site at http://www.tandjenterprises.com/johnevans.htm .

John is going to be making his technology available soon as a kit the public can purchase. This kind of kit in the market place will offer possibilities to all gardeners and farmers they have never dreamed as being possible. I am getting some of his potting soil this week and hope to be doing some simple experiments to show how well BioVam works with his technology before the season ends.

I've grown most of my tomatoes, peppers, strawberries, and zuks in containers this year. It's been a fun project because where I live, it's a cold zone 4.5 to 5 and it's very difficult to get peppers and tomatoes to ripen up. With BioVam on all my container grown plants, I have more that what we can eat and it's the middle of August! I took some pictures of how I put my container garden together and put them up on my web site. Here's the URL: http://www.tandjenterprises.com/tandj_container_gardening.htm . I have tomatoes with 25-50 fruit per plant on all of my plants except one which has only been planted about 1 month.

BioVam is like a super charger on an engine. When you feed that super charger high octane you get really great performance. I've listed the exact ingredients I used in my tub garden so you can get an idea of what makes up the high octane of organic gardening. The key centers around a super charger (BioVam) with low NPK, a rich supply of minerals, and a good supply of active soil microbes. I also spray periodically with Sure Grow, Humisolve TM7, and Yucca extract to encourage microbe and fungi growth and soil building, and good healthy plant growth.

I hope all you gardeners out there have been having a good growing season despite the heat waves and floods and all that. I know that without my own use of BioVam Mycorrhiza, I wouldn't be enjoying the wonderful harvest I have been having this year... lots of tomatoes, peppers, zuks, strawberries, raspberries, onions, and a fantastic grape harvest on my three year old grape plants... all treated with BioVam and different kinds of minerals, etc. Look at this URL to see my back yard grapes... http://www.tandjenterprises.com/tandj_grapes.htm (at bottom of the page.)

Efland, NC(Zone 7a)

Thomas, very interesting but none of your links are working. Could you double check for errors? Thanks. (or perhaps it is my computer.)

Very interesting Thomas and also could not get the link to come up either'Could you double check for errors would like to view your results''Sis'

Lots of good information there and enjoyed looking at your links. WoW! your tomatoes are something else. I like your step by step instructions as well. Very helpful. Thanks

Troy, VA(Zone 7a)

Thanks for the information Thomas. You certainly have given us enough "food for thought" :-) Your results are really spectacular!!

Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

Hi Folks,

My web site was down for a while... evidently server problems. If you retry those links, they should work okay now. At least they did for me. I like growing tomatoes, peppers, onions, zucchini squash, raspberries, strawberries, grapes and roses. I also treat my lawns with all those organic goodies. When you look at our website, you are seeing some of our computer skills at work... we do our own web site work. Many of the plant exhibits are in my own garden and the gardens of friends and neighbors.

If you really want to see some awsome pictures, take a look at those pictures John Evans of Palmer Alaska sent down to me from his garden. Here's the URL: http://www.tandjenterprises.com/johnevans.htm .

John is a Master Gardener and expert at growing veggies of giant size. His technology is like super octane gas going into our BioVam supercharger. Because of his technology coupled with BioVam, he was able to break his own records on some of his plants at mid season this year. He told me recently that all the master gardeners in his area want to purchase BioVam now. John was shocked when he saw the effect of BioVam on his plants. It isn't BioVam alone that is accomplishing that kind of quality and size in John's plants. It is also everything else he is doing with those plants... his potting soil blends and a variety of technologies he has brought together.

I've ordered a couple of boxes of his potting soil and I want to use it with his set of additive materials along with BioVam to grow some plants. I'll probably have to transplant some of my plants growing in my tub garden in order to show benefits this year. I'd like to build a temporary green house... a tube house of plastic and PVC pipe to protect the plants from the coming cold weather for a while so I can get some added time in order to show how effective John's growing methods are in some place other than Alaska.

He wants to put together an "enhanced growing kit" that has his potting soil, associated products, and BioVam... to sell to home gardeners. Think about the possibilities of what we could grow in our gardens with that kind of organic technology at work!! John's goal is to make it so simple that a novice gardener can get great results.

This kind of stuff makes my mind race with excitment at the possibilities that will be accomplished by ordinary gardeners.

I took some pictures this morning. I'll see if I can upload them here for others to look at. If not, I'll put them up on the container gardening section of my web site. This morning I enjoyed eating tomatoes and fresh red raspberries... a snack before breakfast!

Best Regards,
Thomas Giannou - zone 5 - Spokane, WA
http://www.tandjenterprises.com - home of BioVam Mycorrhiza.

Richmond Hill, GA(Zone 8b)

Hi Thomas and welcome to DG. I am _very_ impressed with your site and also Mr. Evan's garden. Wow! I've got to get me some BioVam ASAP. I'm right on the GA coast and consequently have every sandy soil. It sounds like BioVam is perfect for me.

Thanks Thomas the link worked this time'Very impressive results'
I'm raising Thompson Seedless and they are doing well'Purchased them in Ca.and they are doing well considering the sub zero temps of last winter here'

Lost my Perlette though'We have vineyards here
in Kansas too and wineries'

Thank you again for the information'Sis'

Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

Pete2,

I know this is all very exciting, but I want to really strongly make a point about this situation. BioVam is like a super charger on an engine. By itself and according to some concepts of organic gardening, BioVam will appear not to work very well. A super charger on an engine requires high octane to make that super charger have value to the engine performance. The high octane is the issue I want to draw your attention to in this situation. In John Evans case, no one else in the world has his super octane combination. But that's going to be made available to the gardening public in the near future (I hope.)

In the meantime, the best I can offer you is what I have been doing with my container gardening examples on my web site. That's my version of the super octane needed to provide the nutrient sources that BioVam and its Mycorrhiza and other micro organisms can work on to bring into the plants I am growing.

First, a little about the super charger: There are several species of EndoMycorrhiza along with helper bacteria which cause the fungi to better colonize plant roots. That's applied directly to plant roots.

My supercharger material: Black Gold potting soil which has worm castings and composted materials in it. Worm castings are a good source of beneficial bacteria. The Black Gold potting soil is a good source of food for microbes. To that I add Zeolite (holds moisture and helps keep disolved nutrients from leeching away... also does a cation exchange of nutrients with roots and mycorrhiza), I also add some Bio-Peat (contains even more bacteria, protozoa, and beneficial soil fungi), and then Biosol 6-1-3 organic fertilizer (a cup in 1.5 cubic feet of potting soil), rock phosphate, ironite or planters II, and gypsum.

Then I make up a solution of yucca extract, humic acid, and Sure Grow and spray the plants and soils every 10 days or so. These products are great for stimulating plant root growth. They are also great for activating all the soil bacteria, protozoa and beneficial fungi.

All those things and a few of the microbes in BioVam are what I am calling my super octane ingredients.

So let's look at the ingredients list:
BioVam mycorrhiza.
Black Gold potting soil with worm castings and compost materials. 1.5 cubic feet.
Zeolite. (18 cups)
Biosol 6-1-3 organic fertilizer. (1 cup)
Bio-Peat. (9 cups).
Rock Phosphate. (1/2 cup)
Gypsum. (2 cups)
Ironite or Planters II mineral fertilizer. (1/4 cup).

Into 5 gallons of water to be sprayed on the plants and soil every 7-10 days:

Humisolve TM7. (1/2 tsp)
Sure Grow. (1 cup)
Yucca extract. (1 cup)

I know this is a lot of stuff and it isn't going to be found at local garden centers. But that's my list for the moment. I have been able to get consistently good results with the above mix of materials. Everything is organic.

Now your probably wondering... where's the compost or manure additions? There's a small amount in the Black Gold potting soil. It doesn't take very much organic material. The emphasis is upon low levels of NPK, a robust amount of minerals, active microbes, and organic sprays that feed the microbes, and condition the plants to be highly responsive to the nutrients. There's also a lot of other benefits tied to Humisolve TM7, Yucca Extract, and Sure Grow.

The result of all this is a thriving ecosystem that feeds the plants, promotes the microbes, promotes plant root growth, promotes the uptake of nutrients into the plant, conditions the plant to better utilize water and nutrients at a cellular level.... and ends up with 50 tomatoes on an early girl tomato plant... or 50 peppers on a Thai Super Hot pepper plant... or 15 squash on a single zucchini plant that are large, firm and full of flavor... etc.

And a side effect is no bugs and no diseases and no pollution... just great tasting food that's easy to grow. I've made it all a bit complicated, but when things get consolidated it really is fairly simple.

Best Regards,
Thomas Giannou - zone 5 - Spokane, WA


Troy, VA(Zone 7a)

Thomas thank you very, very much - this is outstanding information and the links were great. It does seem a bit complex right now but will read and read until I get the hang of it.....but your results speak for themselves. I want to grow grapes :-)

Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

Hi Louisa,

Grapes can be grown in a lot of areas of the USA, but not all grapes can be grown in all areas. If you want to grow grapes in your area, you need to decide if you are growing them for table grapes, juice grapes, or as wine grapes. Some varieties can be used for all three functions, others for only one or two functions. Once you decide what you want to use the grapes for, you need to then find out what varieties will grow well in your area. Contact ag extension agents in your area to start.

I am fortunate in some respects because I live in an area that is dry and hot during the summer and so I am not faced with battling fungal diseases like some people do in other areas. I also have selected plants that will survive the rather cold winters we sometimes get here in Spokane, WA. In some parts of the country, there are certain diseases that are fatal to grape plants that are spread by insects. Again, I am fortunate not to live in a place where I have those problems to contend with. So, that gives me a lot more choices to make in growing grapes.

I am partial to seedless table grapes and this years harvest from the plants around my grape arbor is going to deliver a lot of grapes. This morning, I noticed some damage from birds pecking at the grapes. It looks like I may have to put up netting to keep them off my plants. I just took the netting down over my Raspberry plants. Now it looks like I need it over the grape arbor. As the sugar levels rise in the grapes they will have more appeal to the birds.

The birds seem to be the only pests I have to deal with. It took me three years to get to what you see on my web site.

You also need to learn about trellesing and how to prune grapes. There are several good books about growing grapes. Here's a URL to check out about everything to do with grapes: http://www.grapeseek.com/

Best Regards,
Thomas Giannou - zone 5 - Spokane, WA.

The relationship between mycorrhiza and blueberry plants is well documented.Blueberries, having no root hairs, use the mycorrhiza to increase their ability to take up nutrients from the soil.

Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

Hi Leonard,

The family of plants, "ericaceae," which includes azaleas, blueberries, heather, andromeda, and others, benefit from Ericoid mycorrhizal fungi. Unfortunately, that type of mycorrhiza is not sold by the vendors. Although, I did see a fellow out of Perdue U., who had isolated and claimed to be able to propagate 2-3 strains of Ericoid Mycorrhiza beneficial to Blueberries. I believe he was a Chinese student.

Thomas Giannou - zone 5 - Spokane, WA.

Troy, VA(Zone 7a)

Thanks again Thomas. There are many vineyards here in zone 7 and I did a little growing back in England. I am very close to Monticello. I hope to find out which varieties do well in this area and go from there.

Lyndeborough, NH

Hey Thomas

I'll ask Gani to drop in here.


(Zone 6a)

If anyone would like to send me a free supply of BioVam to try for myself, I would be happy to evaluate it on my grape vines, blackberry vines and tomato vines next year.

Oh come on now, I love free samples:)



This message was edited Sunday, Aug 26th 9:30 AM

Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

Oblambert,

I can just picture you walking into a resturaunt and saying, "I want a free meal and if it's any good, I'll pay for the next meal and tell my friends about it. Sorry, sir, but there is no free lunch here."

You spent a lot of money on a product from Tomatoes Alive that you said doesn't work. Did you make the cultural practice changes that were needed or did you continue on with your old growing methods that you have always used that never have worked exceptionally well for you? If no cultural practice changes were required, then you got what you paid for... more of the same [deleted] that is in just about every store in the USA that is expensive and doesn't work.

I grew 8 tomato plants, 7 pepper plants, and 1 zucchini plant in my tub garden this year. If I had purchased a quart of BioVam... 240 teaspoons including an extra free cup of BioVam... delivered for a total cost of $30, the cost per teaspoon would be a whopping 12.5 cents. If I plant my plants when they are small, 1/2 teaspoon is needed for each of those 16 plants for a whopping cost of $1.00. Don't want that much product? How about 1/4 cup? 1/2 cup? 1 cup?

On my 8 tomato plants I have 337 tomatoes on the vine right now with four of the plants having more than 50 tomatoes each (Black Krim, Early Girl, Grape, and Cherry).

Take a look at my tub garden at the following URL:
http://www.tandjenterprises.com/tandj_container_gardening.htm . Follow those instructions and you will grow great looking plants consistently... without weeds to pull or soil to till and essentially without chemicals and very little in the way of compost.

Each one of those tubs costs more than the BioVam I used on those plants. Each one of those tubs contains potting soil that costs more than the BioVam used on those plants. Go out and buy the other ingredients and the drip line and the wire hoops to hold up your plants and add up those costs. Add the cost of water and your labor time to put it all together.

The tubs should last another year or two. The potting soil will be recycled into the next batch for next year. I can also bring the tubs inside and continue growing when the frost starts up.

I can buy the food at the store a lot cheaper than what it costs to grow it. I'm retired, yet I spent a lot of money on my garden stuff this year because I want nice fresh food to eat that tastes good and is good for the people who eat it. I met my goals in a really lousy growing season.

Can you get 50+ Early Girl tomatoes to grow on one plant? I ate one yesterday and it was sweet, meaty, and tangy... excellent flavor from a tomato a lot of people whine about. In fact, I just finished another one and have just sliced another up for my wife. Her comment, "You eat these and you won't eat those tomatoes from the store." I can grow plants like that with my container gardening methods just about anywhere.

We are still munching on raspberries that are normally done by now. Some of the new shoots are up above 12 feet high with leaves that will cover your hand with one leaf.

As for my grapes, we have 60 fruiting vines on 5 plants with a total of 93 nice sized clusters of grapes with many at least a foot long. Another week or two and we will be harvesting the grapes. This is the third year and the second harvest for those plants.

Sorry, no testers wanted or needed here.

(Zone 6a)

Hi Thomas. Your analogy to getting a free meal first is not really a good one. But if you are convinced that BioVam is a miracle product that is great!

Hey, I get free samples of soap, etc. in the mail all the time.....very good way to advertise a product. Let the people try it free and if they like it they will buy more:)
That is what I had in mind yesterday when I composed the message, along with the fact I have been burned before:)
In hindsight, I guess I should have mentioned the free mail samples analogy:)

By the way, if you have any ideas that would help me raise a record-breaking (weight) tomato, I would appreciate it:)
I have seeds of a variety called DeQuasi Special that I think has the potential.

Regards,
Owen







Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

Hi Owen,

I know that large companies with lots of $'s give away free product. They mail samples out to people all the time. I simply can not afford to do that. We are too small. Our strategy has been to start small and grow and to teach people how to use our "products". We have a product (BioVam) that work's well, but it doesn't fit into the realm of using chemical fertilizers on plants. It's an uphill struggle because so many people are entrenched in growing methods that simply don't produce good results and they want to hold onto those methods. That’s all that many people have ever learned.

One of the problems we have up front with all of this is that the local stores simply do not have all the materials needed to effectively implement this technology. We are working on getting that changed, but it's going to be really slow in getting these sort of things out into national distribution. This stuff is kind of like Microsoft starting up in somebody's garage. Can you imagine starting up a company like that?

Obviously, in growing large tomatoes, you will want to pick varieties that are capable of becoming large. Choosing to grow a 5 pound sweet 100 cherry tomato would not be a good way to meet your goal. You have to pick varieties that are known to produce large fruit. You also may want to give thought to picking a variety that will grow well where you live. I’m sure you’ve already been down that trail.

Here's an article about one of our customers: http://www.homestore.com/LawnGarden/Vegetables/Organicgiant.asp . John Evans won 9 Guinness world records for growing giant vegetable plants. When he first tried using BioVam he saw his seed starts tipple in size the first week. By the end of the second week, his celery was 8 inches high. By the end of the fourth week, his leeks were 23 inches high and he had not added water or any kind of fertilizer to his inside growing containers for a month... other than what he set up at the start. The plants were growing so fast and getting so large that he had to cool them down into the 50's F to slow them down before he could transplant them outside.

His technology of growing plants is going to be coming out soon and that would be a good place for you to start if you want to grow record sized tomato's. John told me that he uses very little NPK to grow the large sized vegetable plants he is growing. The article above gives you a fairly accurate outline about how he grows his plants. His methods were a perfect fit for the use of BioVam. His methods are very similar to my own, but are much more effective. John told the author of the above article that what she wrote was the most accurate he has ever seen of all the writers who have written about his work and methods. Even so, it's a little frustrating for people like you and I because it doesn't reveal the exact formulation of materials he is using to grow his plants. The reason I'm writing about this situation is to tell you that John intends to come out with a growing kit for gardeners that will contain the ingredients he uses (BioVam will be in the kit) with instructions about how to properly use the materials. He will also be coming out with potting soil that is rich in microbe life that can be used with the rest of his technology. He's already tested this technology at a number of different locations in the USA and the results have been excellent.

I know this won't help you right now, but you can stay alert to the fact that a superb growing system is going to be coming out that will be so simple to use that even novice gardeners will be able to use it successfully.

As I mentioned above, what John Evans is doing is similar to what I’ve been working on, only much more effective. I’m not trying to grow giant vegetables… just really good plants that produce a lot and don’t require the use of pesticides of any kind… chemical or organic. So far, I’m on track, but am seeking ways to improve the “system”. This year, I’ve found products that work to feed and stimulate the microbes. The products have been around for a long time, but not generally in the stores. So, I find myself collecting all these things that contribute to causing the microbes to flourish and the organisms that consume the microbes to flourish and so on. The goal is to build up and sustain a thriving system of life in the soils. Surprisingly, I don’t use manures and I don’t dig in a bunch of organic material into the soils. 10-15% by volume of organic material is all that’s really needed… of a type that provides a long lasting supply of food to the soil organisms. Other components focus upon mineral sources and periodic sources of nutrients for the microbes. Microbes are also a resource you may need to acquire. Think of them as the primary resource you need to establish and sustain. They interact with all the life forms above them in positive ways and they keep the bad guys at bay in a balanced system.
In this “enhanced growing system” there’s no single “product” that is going to provide all the answers. When John Evans comes out with his “growing kit” there will be a consolidation of a lot of these technologies that maximize and sustain the life in the soils… which have the right kinds of life that interact with plants in such a manner that you can be on the trail that leads to growing that world record sized tomato.

Best Regards,
Thomas Giannou – zone 5 – Spokane, WA
http://www.tandjenterprises.com - home of BioVam mycorrhiza.

Lyndeborough, NH

For those that would like a second opinion about Thomas's
Stuff

Drop a note to Carolyn Male..

There are other vendors that do supply small free samples.

Byron






Lyndeborough, NH

http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/TRA/PLANTS/mycorrhiza.html

IE Have soil test done, If P is over 50 PPM THE FUNGI is usless. Their words, not mine


Lyndeborough, NH

Also if the Fungi Doesn't work then you get this type of letter.
So now with Bio this that and the other, plus shipping
you are now up to about $20 per plant.



~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Bob,

Thanks for your report. I know you understand this,
but it's good to review this bit of information.
BioVam by itself is not sufficient to make plants grow
larger and be healthier. A lot depends upon some
other important considerations.

1. BioVam is not a fertilizer and so plants must be
provided with nutrients in order for the mycorrhiza
fungi and other helper microbes in the product to
function properly. We recommend 15% organic material
be mixed into the soils / planting medium. Use only
well composted materials.

2. BioVam's active ingredients are alive and function
best in soils that are also alive with a variety of
micro and macro life forms... bacteria, protozoa,
nematodes, earthworms, beneficial soil fungi, etc.
Seek to maximize as many of those life forms as
possible and your plants will remain healthy and
produce good yields.

3. There are a number of fertilizer and mineral
materials and microbe source materials that can be
added into soils in which you are growing BioVam
treated plants. We have experimented with a number of
different sources and have come up with the following
ingredients to go along with BioVam treated plants.

A. Biosol 6-1-3 general purpose organic fertilizer...
1 cup can be mixed into 1.5 cubic feet (9 sq ft 2
inches thick) of potting soil / soil and will provide
a nice NPK source along with sulfate and magnesium and
plenty of dormant fungal mycelium.
B. 18 cups of Zeolite mixed into 1.5 cubic feet (9 sq
ft 2 inches thick) and will retain water and will hold
onto positive ion nutrients and will do a cation
exchange with mycorrhizal fungi and plant roots and
will act as a slow release fertilizer. This material
will also absorb items detrimental to VAM fungi
colonization. It keeps the soil moist and loosened
up.
C. 2 cups of mined gypsum granules mixed into 1.5
cubic feet (9 sq ft 2 inches thick) will provide
calcium and sulfate ions to plants and will provide
two other benefits attributed to gypsum as it works in
the soils.
D. 1/4 cup of Ironite minerals mixed into 1.5 cubic
feet (9 sq ft, 2 inches thick) will provide all the
key minerals that plants need for health and vitality.
E. 1/2 cup of Rock Phosphate mixed into 1.5 cubic
feet (9 sq ft, 2 inches thick) will provide
phosphorous in a bound up form that is perfect for
making this important mineral available to plants
through the mycorrhizal fungi and helper bacteria in
BioVam.
F. 9 cups of Bio-Peat mixed into 1.5 cubic feet (9 sq
ft, 2 inches thick) will provide a plentiful supply of
active bacteria, protozoa and beneficial fungi and
will help build up soil populations of beneficial
organisms.
G. Spray "Sure Grow" on such soils modified with the
above ingredients to add bacteria that go after
organic material and a multitude of enzymes that will
enhance the entire ecosystem.

We sell some of the above ingredients: A, B, & F.
The rest have to be hunted down locally. We are
planning to bring all the above ingredients together
in a fertilizer (A thru F) in a package that can be
mixed into 1.5 cubic feet of potting soil / soil. We
are currently testing the above combination of items
in my "plastic tub garden" here in Spokane, WA. That
experiment is working really well with my tomatoes,
peppers, and onions.

I am not using any manure's or composted material
except what might be in the potting soil / top soil
mixes we have purchased.

If you can find worm castings, mixing 9 cups of those
into 1.5 cubic feet would provide organic material,
nitrogen, and a source of microbe activity. In our
area, we have a product called Black Gold, which has
worm castings in it along with composted materials and
is an excellent source medium to add the above A thru
G ingredients. This whole system provides the
resources you need to feed your plants and the
microbes you need to make it function well. Add
BioVam to the roots of plants planted in that medium
and you will get superb results.

We have been experimenting with BioVam for four years
and have gradually built up the above components of
soil amendments that provide the necessary raw
materials plants need and the microbes that cause the
whole system to function well. One can combine the
above with periodic brewing and spraying of compost
tea extracts and have quite an effective, nutrient
rich ecosystem in which plants thrive and produce
great tasting fruit and vegetables. That's the goal
I'm after in my own gardening efforts.

Anyway, I better step off my soap box and get out to
the garden to put up an overhead sprinkler system idea
in the back yard before the weather turns hot. I
prefer this kind of system because that's how the
natural world functions best. Now, if I could get the
chlorine out of all that water that I spray on those
plants and soils.....

Best Regards,
Thomas Giannou - zone 5 - Spokane, WA
http://www.tandjenterprises.com




This message was edited Monday, Aug 27th 3:57 PM

This message was edited Monday, Aug 27th 7:25 PM

Richmond Hill, GA(Zone 8b)

Wow, now this is _really_ getting interesting! I think I'm getting addicted to reading this thread to see who will say what next and, of course, to see who will win this "debate". ;-) Hey Horseshoe, email me and we'll make a little bet on this one. LOL

Pete



This message was edited Monday, Aug 27th 11:30 AM

Lyndeborough, NH

Pete

Trying to find a real early letter explaining his experiments with tomatoes.

One group he applied fish emlusion and bio vam to another
group he applied neither

The group with the bio vam did better, Therefore bio vam was the key link to a better crop ????

In my garden if I fertlize one group and not the other, the
group that I fertilzed will be better than the group I didn't.

Richmond Hill, GA(Zone 8b)

Byron, I'm staying out of this debate because honestly I don't know enough about the topic to put forth an argument about PO4 levels and the effects on mycorrhizal fungi. But either way I am learning a lot about mycorrhizal fungi by just reading this thread.

Pete

Lyndeborough, NH

Pete

Here is another one.

Note soil problem in this artilce


http://www.mycorrhiza.com/

Spokane, WA(Zone 5a)

The experiments that the researchers were conducting had to do with 50 ppm or greater of SOLUBLE phosphorous they had added to their substrate.

Phosphorous in the soils that is in free form that is soluble and in the water solution certainly does not occur at 50 ppm (except perhaps with your practices of pouring on the equivalent of miracle grow). Phosphorous in the soils is generally bound up and it moves very slowly through soils. I've had scientists use BioVam on plants in soils that were 109 ppm phosphorous and it worked fine where nothing else worked. The free phosphorous was quite low. It is rare indeed in nature to have free phosphorous at 50 ppm in the soils. I've reviewed this with you time after time, but you don't seem able to have even the remotest comprehension about what I am talking about nor do you have even the remotest understanding about this issue.

As I have posted before, BioVam is like a supercharger on an engine. It isn't a fertilizer. When you apply it to tomatoes that (Bob) above was trying to grow and you don't take care of the other issues in the soils (the super octane portion of the system), it's like running water into a supercharger and getting no performance out of the engine (the plant). Bob was sent our literature which covers these issues and he totally ignored what he was told to do. Instead, he tried things like 1/3 manure, 1/3 beach sand, and 1/3 peat moss with a chemical fertilizer. He was getting 5-6 tomatoes on his plants. He refused to follow our instructions. And then when he was told what to do, he complained and tried to weasel out of following ANY of the advice given to him in our literature.

Take a look at my tub garden experiment on my web site. It details out quite clearly what works just fine... and I have four out of eight tomato plants that have 50+ tomatoes on them. The others have 25+ tomatoes on them. I grew more tomatoes on one plant than BOB got on all of his plants combined! I have 335+ tomatoes on eight plants!

That particular gardener (Bob) was a fellow who devised his own experiments using methods that were totally obnoxious to growing anything (demonstrated by the results he got with treated and untreated plants) and certainly had nothing to do with building up an ecosystem in the soils to take advantage of the mycorrhiza applied to the roots of the plants.

(Zone 6a)

Heck with the bio-vam.....I just want to know how to read in this thread without having to scroll back and forth at every sentence!!

Owen

P.S.: From what I have learned thus far, I think I would really like to try a couple plants with bio-vam and the rest with my just my regular amendments....but not really interested in putting out good money for it right now:)

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

perhaps Byron could edit his post and take out that long line of ~~~ that would fix this thread.

Lyndeborough, NH

OBLamert Your width problem is from Thomas, Not I.

Hey Thomas that 50 PPM was from a soil scientest at Colo. State U. Not me.

The other Web site is not me. The one that say's it works in low phoshour soils only.

Bobs experiment is the way it should have been done. Several plants in each type of growing medium. And then comparing the results.

There are many types of mic. products on the market, over 20 that I counted. Most are also recognized as a helpful aid in tres and shrubs.

Another mic. seller claims that there is an Organization
of Mic. products.

If one does a google search for Mycorrhiza, The only mic product listed on the net for veggies is bio vam.

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