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Rock and Alpine Gardening: NARGS seed list for 2011!

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CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 16, 2010
6:27 AM

Post #8263142

The NARGS seed list is on line.
If you like starting perennials from seeds,then a Membership is well worth it.
Membership is $30 per annum.

There are over 4500 items on the new 2011 seed list.
killdawabbit
Christiana, TN
(Zone 6b)

December 16, 2010
4:01 PM

Post #8264024

Might you provide a link to the list?
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 16, 2010
6:12 PM

Post #8264173

Here's a link to NARGS:

http://nargs.org/

click on Seed Ex, then on 2010-2011 list.

I spent an entire day looking up plants and got my order in the mail today, hoping I get most of my wants, though I probably missed looking up a few fabulous ones.

What is everyone ordering?
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 16, 2010
10:29 PM

Post #8264423

I was happy to see all the Lilium offerings since I am a liliophile, but a bit alarmed at the rise of so many non-alpine and very large species included. Also, common things like Nigella damascena (Love-in-the-Mist) that you can buy at any nursery or big box store, just don't belong, in my opinion. I worry that the list will become a catch all for everything.
killdawabbit
Christiana, TN
(Zone 6b)

December 17, 2010
12:32 AM

Post #8264449

Thanks, PM. :-)
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 17, 2010
5:30 AM

Post #8264625

Yes, I was just noticing that the list does not contain alpines so much as perennials in general.
And there are several annuals there too.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 17, 2010
9:40 AM

Post #8264995

I was a bit surprised too. As I'm not familiar with all that many alpines/ rock garden plants, I had gone through some of the photos posted on nargs and made a list of some I wanted, but unfortunately they weren't on the seed list. And some on last year's list that I wanted weren't on this year's list. It seems I got an email from Nargs a while back, saying that there weren't as many seed donors this year as in the past.

I did order a bunch of gentians, a few aconitums, a few anemones, a few geraniums, a few aquilegias, saxifragas, corydalis, lewisia, delphinium tatsiense, primula... and these which are completely unfamiliar to me:
adonis vernalis
potentilla porphyrantha
stachys monieri
townsendia montana

Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 17, 2010
10:27 PM

Post #8265936

The list does change significantly from year to year, but this year there are whole blocks of rock garden stalwarts missing. Really I am not complaining, since it's volunteering all the way, but for instance, the phlox selection is pitiful compare to usual listings. And it has Phlox paniculata hybrids (available at big box stores everywhere)...grrrrrrh.

Delphineum tatsiense is quite nice, even when not in flower, IMO.

There is a pic of Townsendia montana in the NARGS forum here:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=185.0

Potentilla porphyrantha - I love those silvery white potentillas!
http://www.wrightmanalpines.com/details.asp?PRODUCT_ID=P257

Don't forget about the NARGS wiki image gallery:
http://nargs.org/nargswiki/tiki-galleries.php?sort_mode=parentgallery_asc&offset=0

perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 18, 2010
8:14 AM

Post #8266351

Thanks, Lefty. I did look up hundreds (or more) of plants before ordering.

Any idea how long I have to wait til seeds arrive? Did I read somewhere that it's not til February? Wish I could get them started before then.

I want to pimp a couple of my contributions.
Dryas octopetala - much nicer than these pics:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/75398/

a ground creeper with shiny green leaves and really lovely flowers, and it must be easy to grow for an alpine, as I haven't killed it.

Tricyrtis puberula:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/182908/

I guess it probably doesn't qualify as a rock garden plant, but I do love it. It blooms much earlier than most tricyrtis, as the yellow varieties do. Yellow with brown-maroon spots/blotches. The leaves start out with big dark spots on them in spring, but later are just green.

altagardener
Calgary, AB
(Zone 3b)

December 18, 2010
10:32 AM

Post #8266498

Yes, Dryas octopetala seems to be pretty easy to grow, judging from the various alpine forums and people's reports. (It's certainly easy here, though since we are at 1100m elevation and 45 minutes from the Rockies, we have many advantages for growing alpines.)
The best way to appreciate it, though, is in its natural habitat:

Thumbnail by altagardener
Click the image for an enlarged view.

perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 18, 2010
3:17 PM

Post #8266841

That's lovely, Alta. Unfortunately we don't have a whole lot of natural habitat here in the city, nor, I think, the best conditions for growing alpines.
Do you know yet what you'll be ordering from the seed exchange? I imagine that you already have almost everything imagineable.
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 18, 2010
11:46 PM

Post #8267314

Our Minnesota chapter is again helping out the major chapters involved, and took 300 different taxa for the exchange, to repackage to individual glassine envelopes. We all receive them Friday (17 Dec) and are suppose to have them to our committee chair by Thursday, so he can send them on their way. It's important to realize that just because the list is ready to order from does not mean that everything is already set up to fill orders. For the benefit of anxious gardeners who don't yet know, this is a completely volunteer effort, requiring thousands of hours of donated time (and money). You might think about putting in a note of thanks and gratitude with your order, for their generous volunteer work.

The Delaware Chapter that will be filling orders, will meticulously record incoming orders in the order they are received, with preference given to donor orders. It will depend on when they are able to get together and process them. Every chapter has their own people and therefore schedules will vary from year to year. It would be great if they do, but I would never expect a volunteer operation of such magnitude to begin before the holidays are over.

I donated Deinanthe caerulea, also not an alpine. The lit says that the seed can't dry out, but I found by experience that that is not the case. And they don't need any kind of pretreatment either. The seed is very very tiny, and I gave oodles of it. Anyone who orders it will surely have enough for multiple batches. Same with the Coryphantha vivipara cactus seed. And I see I wasn't the only donor for that species this year, so recipients will have a mix of provenances from the mountains and South Dakota flatland.

I know what you mean about Alta seeming to already have everything; she is wonderful plantswoman. But growing it all, even in a lifetime, is a pretty impossible task. Yet we all try, now don't we!

My Dryas octopetala needs to be cut back each year now, to stay in bounds. Tulipa tarda seems to like growing in, under, and through it.

CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 19, 2010
7:31 AM

Post #8267600

Yes, one has to appreciate the work which the volunteers do to carry out this seed exchange.
I am still working my way through the list, and I think I have it down to several hundred!
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 19, 2010
9:03 AM

Post #8267681

I received an email from my local chapter a while back, asking for volunteers to package seeds. I said I'd volunteer, but later received another email saying that the services of our chapter weren't needed this year. I wonder why, considering how much work it is.

CL, do let us know when you've whittled it down a bit more.

Between NARGS, the "Hog Wild" seed swap, seeds I've traded for, and a few purchased, you'd think I was starting a nursery. I'm going to have to be very very organized to get them all planted properly this winter, and very organized is not something I'm good at. I have, however, already started researching germination requirements. I may have some questions for you guys later.
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 19, 2010
12:02 PM

Post #8267916

I am leaning towards some of the perennials rather than the alpines.
Yes, some can be purchased,but you know what?
I get better germination from seeds from other gardeners than I do from commercial sources.
I also want to see which alpines are coming back from last season's efforts.
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 19, 2010
5:46 PM

Post #8268309

[quote="perenniallyme"] I said I'd volunteer, but later received another email saying that the services of our chapter weren't needed this year. I wonder why, considering how much work it is.[/quote]

Perhaps the national made a blanket call for help from the chapters, and your chapter's response came after others that already agree to do the needed work. It really is a fun thing, no matter what part of the volunteer work you do, especially if you get together and do it as a group. For the repackaging, we had a kick-off day when we all converged at a member's house and spent several hours (or however many you want) doing the task. Then if you want, you can take more home to do at your leisure.

I was repackaging some of the Pulsatilla offerings and the Pterocephalus spp. today.
---------------------------------------------
This is pretty much what I ordered:

-----,127,Allium,ovalifolium v leuconeurum,white flr/white veins on lvs,25cm,7
-----,234,Anemone,parviflora,white,10-30cm,66
-----,240,Anemone,trullifolia,mix,3-20cm,22
-----,459,Athamanta,turbith ssp haynaldii,white,30-50cm,132
-----,571,Campanula,choruhensis,white/pink,15cm,66
-----,758,Colchicum,hungaricum,purplish-pink/white,to 20cm,121
-----,769,Coluteocarpus,vesicaria,pinkish white,5-20cm,31 250
-----,1125,Echinocereus,coccineus,red,40cm,250
-----,1151,Eranthis,hyemalis (moist packed),yellow,5-15cm,275
-----,1254,Escobaria,sneedii var leei,mix,3-27cm,250
-----,1258,Euonymus,cornutus v quinquecornutus,reddish,2-3m,265
-----,1325,Fritillaria,recurva,scarlet/yellow,30-90cm,272
-----,1328,Fritillaria,sewerzowii ex Tian Shan Uzbekistan,purple,50cm,252
-----,1790,Lilium,lophophorum v linearifolium,yellow,10-45cm,70
-----,1810,Lilium,nanum,pale purplish/purple spots,10-30cm,70
-----,1811,Lilium,nanum Bhutan form,dark purple,30cm,39
-----,1812,Lilium,nanum v flavidum,yellow,10-30cm,70
-----,1815,Lilium,pardalinum dwarf form,orange-red,30cm,177
-----,1821,Lilium,pyrenaicum (sweet-scented strain),,,267
-----,1830,Lilium,tsingtauense,orange/spotted,40-85cm,269
-----,1965,Moltkia,petraea,deep violet-blue,20-40cm,157
-----,2051,Orostachys,chanetii,white,10-30cm,250
-----,2166,Pediocactus,simpsonii 'Snowball',dense white spines/pink flr,7cm,250
-----,2258,Phemeranthus (Talinum),sediformis,white,10cm,80
-----,2426,Pterocephalus,perennis,pink-light rosy purple,12cm,47
-----,4252,Fritillaria,meleagroides, ,"Kazakhstan: Altai, Tainty (Malachit Village) ",261
-----,4254,Fritillaria,raddeana, ,"Turkmenistan: Kopet Dag Mtns, Arvaz valley ",11
-----,4255,Fritillaria,sewerzowii, ,"Uzbekistan: Kamtschik, Tian Shan Mtns ",11
-----4256,Fritillaria,stenanthera, ,Uzbekistan: Tian Shan Valley Urungatschsai ,11
-----,4340,Lilium,debile, ,Russia: Sakhalin ,11
-----,4346,Lilium,philadelphicum, ,Michigan: Northern ,155
-----,4406,Paraquilegia,microphylla PKMB257, ,"Kazakhstan: Tian Shan, above Almaty ",261
-----,4464,Pulsatilla,alpina ssp apiifolia,yellow 40cm,Slovenia: Julian Alps ,252
-----,4488,Rosularia,turkestanica PKMB455, ,"Kazakhstan: Tian Shan, nr Djabagly ",261
-----,4521,Silene,nigrescens, 10cm,"China: Ngajung La, Tibet ",252

Alta, we will see if your Athamanta ssp. haynaldiii is different than the unspecified ssp. I already have. Besides, two out of the three I have bloomed themselves out this season.

And I'll have a shot at the second round too. Last year I was really surprised how much choice stuff was left over. You just never know...
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 20, 2010
2:59 AM

Post #8268613

There is lots of choice.
I have Colichicum and Talinum on my tentative list.
The rest are completely different.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 20, 2010
7:24 AM

Post #8268917

I guess I'm just putting my little toe in with the alpines, and waiting to see if they'll survive in my yard before trying more.

I've given up on trying to grow lilium bulbs from seed. I just can't get them to germinate, and at this point don't really have room for more liliums anyway, or any extra tenacity to deal with even more lily beetles than I had last year.
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 21, 2010
4:48 AM

Post #8270255

Sounds like a plan. I have not seen the lily beetle in my own yard,but it is supposed to be in the area.
I have started some martagon lily seeds.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 21, 2010
1:15 PM

Post #8271048

You're so lucky not to have the lily beetle yet. I hope it stays that way.
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 21, 2010
7:18 PM

Post #8271684

No lily beetle here yet, either. If it is any consolation, it's not uncommon for invasive insects to "stabilize" in 10 years or so at lower population levels then the initial colonization. Hopefully that will be the case with the lily beetle too.

Rick
altagardener
Calgary, AB
(Zone 3b)

December 21, 2010
8:16 PM

Post #8271749

Yikes! (~blush!~) If I kept it up for another 20 years I might get to deserve that kind of praise, but thanks for the compliments!

I saw lily beetles here for the first time ever in the summer of 2009 when I found (and summarily executed) 4 of them. Last summer, between the two of us, we killed about 8 adults and I squashed probably a dozen absolutely revolting larvae, and had several lily stems chewed badly! So, yes, they are definitely in Calgary (the NW at least), unfortunately. My lilies tend to be planted amongst perennials so the fiends have quite a bit of cover to do their damage in. After one season, I can see why the are so hated!

Strangely enough, perhaps, one of the things I've always really enjoyed about the NARGS seed list is the huge variety of plants, not limited to alpines! I'm impressed by the wild-collected selection this year and by the fabulous array of Salvia (of which I hope many are hardy)!
Here are my eclectic first picks:

72 Agastache pringlei
93 Allium akaka
1181 Erigeron nanus
1182 Erigeron nematophyllus
1627 Inula verbascifolia
1864 Lomatium columbianum
1868 Luetkea pectinata
2042 Onosma nana
2052 Orostachys iwarenge
2068 Packera werneriifolia
2338 Potentilla megalantha
2426 Pterocephalus perennis
2554 Salvia barrelieri
2557 Salvia candelabrum
2575 Salvia hypargeia
2576 Salvia indica
2826 Teucrium orientale
2841 Thalictrum tuberosum
2878 Trifolium trichocephalum
3006 Zinnia grandiflora
4076 Arenaria purpurascens
4107 Bukiniczia cabulica
4185 Delphinium oxysepalum
4187 Delphinium sp PKMB295
4203 Dracocephalum grandiflorum PKMB159
4227 Erigeron chrysopsidis
4309 Ipomopsis aggregata
4415 Patrinia sp PKMB229
4501 Saxifraga crustata
4530 Sphaeralcea ambigua ssp monticola
4543 Thlaspi bellidifolium
4547 Townsendia eximia
4583 Xerophyllum tenax

This message was edited Dec 21, 2010 10:46 PM
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 22, 2010
8:38 AM

Post #8272363

I thought I had the lily beetles under control for a few years, finding only a dozen or so and summarily executing them, but last year they started really early - around April, I think, and it was a constant battle, not always successful, to get rid of them before they deposited their eggs. I even found a few as late as November. I read that they winter underground at the base of the plants, so I'm planning on using neem oil on and around all my lilies as soon as they start coming up, if not before.

Now I'm going to have a look at the picks of the experts and see what I missed.
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 22, 2010
9:48 AM

Post #8272430

Do you know what form they winter as? as adults? as larvae? or eggs?
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 22, 2010
10:14 AM

Post #8272468

CL, here's one short but informative article I found:

http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/lilyleafbeetle.html

CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 23, 2010
3:37 PM

Post #8274214

Thank you. I am wondering if copper metal or Epsom salts might work.
Copper metal discourages ordinary slugs, and Epsom salts is somewhat effective with carrot rust fly.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 24, 2010
7:45 AM

Post #8274985

Sorry, I have no idea about that. What I do as a first offense is inspect my lilies daily with a wide-mouthed jar of water with a little vegetable oil, and knock any lily beetles I see into the jar. Though they can fly, I've only had 2 ever fly away. What we have going for us is that, being bright red, they're easy to spot, and they don't move too quickly. I also check the undersides of leaves for larvae, and remove the leaves that have either that nasty excrement or teeny red specks, and those go in the jar too. Then last year I started using neem oil, maybe a half dozen times, spraying the plants and around the base of the plants. It's a lot of work, but my lilies have so far remained mostly intact. I do hope that a larger application of neem oil earlier in the season, around the base of the plants, will cut down on the work.
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

December 24, 2010
9:11 AM

Post #8275143

The vege oil sounds good.
I do not use Neem because of the chemicals it contains.

I am rushing my NARGS order so it gets there just after the holidays.
I should have spent more time on it, but will go with what they send.
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 24, 2010
4:45 PM

Post #8275696

[quote="CLScott"]The vege oil sounds good.
I should have spent more time on it, but will go with what they send.[/quote]

Some of the most interesting plants, IMO, were my second or third choices after my initial picks. I'm sure you will be happy with whatever comes you way.

I happened to repackage the Pulsatilla alba seed you donated. There were two others that also donated that species, and yours had a highest percentage of good, healthy, viable seed.

Rick

perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

December 25, 2010
10:36 AM

Post #8276417

What chemicals are those, CL? I use 100% neem oil, diluted in water, with a little bit of dish soap to disperse the oil in the water.

I realized after I did my list that some of my alternates should have been 1st choices and vice versa, but I didn't want to take the time to redo it. With so many seeds, I'll never know the difference anyway.

Tammy

Tammy
Barto, PA
(Zone 6b)

January 8, 2011
3:19 PM

Post #8299429

I can't believe I haven't checked this forum is so long!

The first batch of orders were sent out a few days ago.
We have over 500 orders recieved so far and expect
another few hundred to come in yet. We should have
them all out by mid-Feb. One very brave chapter member
is spear heading this part of the job - she has set up
3 sessions a week in Jan & into Feb.

So start looking in your mail - donors should have gotten
theirs or will get them very soon.

Tam
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 8, 2011
6:59 PM

Post #8299780

Hooray!!! Thanks for the info, Tammy, and all the hard work. I'm crossing my fingers that I'm in the 1st batch, as I sent in my order on Dec 16 and was a donor. I'm rearing to go a-plantin'!
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

January 9, 2011
8:39 PM

Post #8301695

A couple donors have posted already on the NARGS forum that they received their seed orders.

Many thanks for all or your Chapter's work!

Rick
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

January 10, 2011
6:22 PM

Post #8303518

Received my seed today. The first thing I do is record what I received and get them on my spread sheet for seed propagation.

The second thing I do is mark each package with the seed collection year (not today's date).

Fritillaria seed goes straight into a sealed jar and into the fridge until fall, when I will plant them.

Rick
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 10, 2011
7:52 PM

Post #8303675

Well I was hoping, but mine haven't arrived yet. Maybe tomorrow? Did you get all of your first choices?
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

January 11, 2011
8:16 PM

Post #8305826

[quote="perenniallyme"] Did you get all of your first choices?[/quote]
All but two. But you saw I didn't order all alpines. The ones I am most pleased to receive are
Lilium tsingtauense - after three tries of growing this from seed and 5+ years later finding they are not the true species when they flower, I finally know I have the true species seed, 'cause I know the donor has the real thing.
Escobaria sneedii
Lilium pardalinum dwarf form

Heck, it's hard to pick my most treasured! I really like them all !!!




perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 12, 2011
1:07 PM

Post #8307025

I guess that's pretty good, Rick. I hope you have good luck with them.

Is there any way I can find out if and when my seeds were sent, as they still haven't arrived, and the mail was actually delivered today, even in this blizzard.
Leftwood
Saint Bonifacius, MN
(Zone 4a)

January 12, 2011
3:42 PM

Post #8307305

If you are listed as a donor in the Seed ex, then I expect you should get something any day now.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 12, 2011
4:29 PM

Post #8307395

I sure hope so. My PO isn't 100% reliable. Maybe I'll call them tomorrow in case it's sitting in the "deliver whenever you feel like it" pile. I once ordered seeds from Valueseeds and, though they shipped them the next day, they took 3 weeks to get here, and if I remember right, they magically appeared the day after I called to report them missing.

Tammy

Tammy
Barto, PA
(Zone 6b)

January 12, 2011
6:38 PM

Post #8307613

I don't know how many donors there were. The first day they got out 74 packages. Yesterday was the second session but we had that big storm.

Tam
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 12, 2011
7:34 PM

Post #8307697

Thanks Tammy. Maybe they haven't been sent yet then, as there were a lot more donors than that ( I think I was #136 or so), but I did send in my order on Dec. 16.
CLScott
Calgary
Canada

January 12, 2011
10:57 PM

Post #8307842

I have not received the seeds yet, but coming to Canada-----
they may sit at the Canadian Customs for awhile.


Neem oil contains azadiractin which is a nerve toxin.
It will harm beneficial insects as well as the annoying ones.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 14, 2011
1:59 PM

Post #8310649

I got my seeds today. Hooray! I got all of my choices too!

Hmmm, I don't know what to do, CL. I had heard that neem oil was better ecologically than a lot of other stuff. But I certainly don't want to kill off the bees or butterflies or earthworms, etc. On the other hand, I'd really like to keep my lilies. I don't know what to do.

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