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Organic Gardening: Genetically modified corn

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mtilton
Ada, OK
(Zone 7a)

January 3, 2011
3:38 PM

Post #8290659

If anyone is interested in identifying genetically engineered corn, here is a possible way, although I haven't tried it myself yet. I will this next garden year.

Just grow the corn in a deep container and harvest it when the time is right. Then put Roundup on the plant. If it lives, it could be a GMO. I wonder if this would work? There is really nothing to lose.

I e-mailed a popular organic seed company to ask if they check their corn seeds for genetic contamination and they that replied that there was some present in a couple of shipments. This was in 2007.

ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 3, 2011
3:47 PM

Post #8290695

A non-GMO plant wouldn't survive being sprayed with Roundup, so it's a pretty safe bet if it survives that treatment then it IS the GM corn. Either that or you had a bad bottle of Roundup.
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

January 6, 2011
12:50 PM

Post #8295689

You can also just grow colored corn. They have not been GMO'd.
nedweenie
Windsor, CT
(Zone 6a)

January 11, 2011
9:37 AM

Post #8304562

When you buy GMO corn, you have to be a commercial grower & sign off on various contractual agreements- like you won't perform any independent research with it, try to save seed, etc.

RoundUp Ready crops (mainly corn & soybeans) are not the only GMOs out there. There is also crops which have BT shoehorned in somehow, to kill worms. And others engineered against pests. Those would be killed by RoundUp if sprayed. (And are also not readily available to the general public.)

GMO pollen contamination of "regular" or even organic corn seed certainly can & does happen, but it's unlikely that your test would work, since the RoundUp Ready genes in your sample wouldn't be pure.

Interesting idea, but sorry: I don't think it's a foolproof method. Or is all that necessary. Best to call the seedhouse you're going to use and ask if they test, or what precautions they take if you have concerns.

This message was edited Jan 11, 2011 12:39 PM
mtilton
Ada, OK
(Zone 7a)

January 12, 2011
5:21 PM

Post #8307485

Thank you. I really appreciate your answer.
nedweenie
Windsor, CT
(Zone 6a)

January 13, 2011
6:23 AM

Post #8308100

You're welcome. And I appreciate your scientific method.

At this point in the game, it just not profitable for the GMO seed companies to go after the backyard garden market. Too many variables they couldn't control, (like independent testing) and also they wouldn't get the whole 3 tier structure to their business: selling RR seed, RoundUp, & fertilizer to replace the lost or bound up nutrients that are usually provided to plants by a healthy soil food web.

In a Big Picture way, (aside from the fact that we eat RU practically every day in one form or another) the permanent destruction of soil from RU use is the biggest crime. And it is permanent. I just learned recently that they have made & have been applying GM bacteria to replace the natural ones that RU kills. That is simply insane, creating FrankenBacteria.

Quoting:TABLE 1. Some things we know about glyphosate that influence plant nutrition and disease.
1. Glyphosate is a strong metal chelator (for Ca, Co, Cu, Fe, Mn, Mg, Ni, Zn) – in the spray tank, in soil and in plants.
2. It is rapidly absorbed by roots, stems, and leaves, and moves systemically throughout the plant (normal and RR).
3. Accumulates in meristematic tissues (root, shoot, legume nodules, and reproductive sites) of normal and RR plants.
4. Inhibits EPSPS in the Shikimate metabolic pathway and many other plant essential enzymes.
5. Increases susceptibility to drought and disease.
6. Non-specific herbicidal activity (broad-spectrum weed control).
7. Some of the applied glyphosate is exuded from roots into soil.
8. Immobilized in soil by chelating with soil cat-ions (Ca, Co, Cu, Fe, Mg, Mn, Ni, Zn).
9. Persists and accumulates in soil and plants for extended periods (years) – it is not „biodegradable,‟ but is rapidly immobilized by chelation generally.
10. Desorbed from soil particles by phosphorus and is available for root uptake by all plants.
11. Toxic to soil organisms that facilitate nutrient access, availability, or absorption of nutrients.
12. Inhibits the uptake and translocation of Fe, Mn, and Zn at very low, non-herbicidal rates.
13. Stimulates soilborne pathogenic and other soil microbes to reduce nutrient availability.
14. Reduces secondary cell wall formation and lignin in RR and non-RR plants.
15. Inhibits nitrogen fixation by chelating Ni for ureide synthesis and is toxic to Rhizoiaceae.
16. Reduces physiological availability and concentration of Ca, Cu, Fe, K, Mg, Mn, and Zn in plant tissues and seed.
17. Residual soil activity can damage plants through root uptake.
18. Increases mycotoxins in stems, straw, grain, and fruit.
19. Reduces photosynthesis (CO2 fixation).
20. Causes fruit (bud) drop and other hormonal effects.
21. Accumulates in food and feed products to enter the food chain as an item of food safety.



http://s230184898.onlinehome.us/CurseBuster/joomla/images/PDFs/Huber at Fluid Fert. 2-10.pdf

After reading that, (and "Teaming with Microbes") I no longer use RoundUp in any way on my property. I'd rather hand pull poison ivy than have one drop in my soil.

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 20, 2011
11:20 AM

Post #8320701

Thank you so very much for the details on RoundUp!

I hope those reading this thread are not perturbed by a request to protect our alfalfa from the introduction of a GMO version by Monsanto:


I just took action, calling on Secretary Vilsack and President Obama to reject the approval of Mosanto's GMO alfalfa and protect the integrity of organics. Approving GMO alfalfa will potentially destroy the integrity of and access to organic food, as well as the livelihoods of organic farmers.

The approval of GMO alfalfa is only days away and the Obama administration needs to hear from you and all of your friends who care about organics that the contamination of the organic dairy industry is not acceptable to risk an entire industry simply for Monsanto's corporate profits.

Please take a moment to let Vilack and President Obama know that you care about organic integrity by following this link from Food Democracy Now! Then please pass this on.

http://action.fooddemocracynow.org/sign/kiss_your_organics_goodbye/?referring_akid=.191388.sr_jm1&source=taf



nedweenie
Windsor, CT
(Zone 6a)

January 21, 2011
5:42 AM

Post #8321924

Jeffery Smith's outstanding article on glyphosate : http://www.responsibletechnology.org/blog/664

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 21, 2011
7:06 AM

Post #8322130

Thanks for the link, Kyla. I just wrote:

GMO crops constitute uncontrolled experimentation on us and our children and grandchildren. Until we have much more longitudinal data we have no business letting this genie out of the bottle. There are already signs that unanticipated negative effects are cropping up in animals exposed to these products. What do we do if we find that those effects are far worse and far more pervasive than we knew, once GMO pollen has already affected most of our food plants?

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 21, 2011
9:15 AM

Post #8322362

Thanks, GG -- I hope people will also share and spread that link. While internet activism is often belittled, it seems to be effective in this sort of situation, if enough people participate.

Ned, thanks again so much for the data.

I remember a few years ago when I was living in North Caroling and attended the Unitarian fellowship there, a woman who is a marine biologist had given a wonderful presentation to the children about "what would you put in the fishbowl" to illustrate how products we use daily can kill creatures... (this was on the coast)

And then the next time I encountered her, she was outside weeding the little garden patch. So I pitched in, and she said the weeds were so bad she should probably just come back with some RoundUp to get rid of them.

We were, like, two blocks from the shoreline.

I was so shocked I just mumbled something like, oh, I try not to use that kind of stuff.

If I had had this information, or any of it, I would instead have said, look, give me your email address, I want to send you some data about RoundUp!

:)

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 21, 2011
9:17 AM

Post #8322366

Talk about a disconnect...

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 21, 2011
10:05 AM

Post #8322425

Well, also, it is the insularity of scientific disciplines. The one hand does not know what the other hand is doing, all too often.

If she had not seen or participated in some kind of development of data around the products she was referring to in that presentation, she would not necessarily have known what the dangers were. There is an inherent conservatism of thought involved in this. Me, I tend to default to the precautionary principle, but most of the scientists I have met -- even the ones who are largely on the side of environmental conservation and good practices -- default to the other thing of, if it is not proven or demonstrated in their knowledge base, it is probably not anything to worry about. Unless the question is "interesting" in which case, maybe someone will do a study one day.

There are, of course, exceptions to this attitude, but I did find it highly disappointing in some individuals whom I had hoped would be allies in certain situations... Again, not meaning to cast aspersions on anyone here... And I realize too that the attitude I am describing has also a healthy component of skepticism, as there are certainly many uninformed flows of thought in the world and one needs a way to navigate that.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 22, 2011
7:30 AM

Post #8323988

Although I have no evidence to back it up : I do believe the decline of the honeybee will be traced back to the over-use of Round Up!

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 22, 2011
9:55 AM

Post #8324190

Honeybee, I would not be at all surprised.

Here's another way for us to register our voices about protecting our genetics from Monsanto manipulation:

The approval of GMO alfalfa is only days away and the Obama administration needs to hear from you and all of your friends who care about organics that the contamination of the organic dairy industry is not acceptable to risk an entire industry simply for Monsanto's corporate profits.

Please take a moment to let Vilack and President Obama know that you care about organic integrity by following this link from Food Democracy Now! Then please pass this on.

http://action.fooddemocracynow.org/sign/kiss_your_organics_goodbye/?referring_akid=285.4533.Vl-xLz&source=mailto

Every voice counts!
Thanks

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 23, 2011
10:01 PM

Post #8326890

a little OT here, for Honeybee in NC, see what you think -- a video exploring Colony Collapse Disorder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MusqTKZ83I&feature=player_embedded

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 24, 2011
11:05 AM

Post #8327730

Thank you for the link, Kylaluaz.

Interesting to see both sides of the same coin expressed here. As an organic gardener, I argree with Jacqueline's view.
terri_emory
Alba, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 24, 2011
11:12 AM

Post #8327739

HoneybeeNC and all, did you see the PBS special on colony colapse last year? It was very thorough and informative, at least for me as a honeybee wannabee.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 24, 2011
12:55 PM

Post #8327911

terri_emory - I think I saw it, but am not sure.

Going back to the video...

I was very disappointed to see that some beekeepers are using plastic for the bees to draw their combs from. Hubby and I try to avoid plastic touching our food.

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 27, 2011
7:45 PM

Post #8334291

Vilsack caved to Monsanto:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/business/28alfalfa.html

There will be no restrictions on the planting of GM alfalfa, unless an appeal is successful... reading this article, it sounds like Vilsack had a ton of pressure from various directions... and not enough clear guidance or backup to, shall we say, do the right thing.

Phew.
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

January 28, 2011
2:17 AM

Post #8334513

Well, what Vilsack did is not surprising, considering his history.
Here's a quote about him from Wikipedia that kind of sums it up:

"Vilsack has repeatedly demonstrated a preference for large industrial farms and genetically modified crops;[18] as Iowa state governor, he originated the seed pre-emption bill in 2005, effectively blocking local communities from regulating where genetically engineered crops would be grown; additionally, Vilsack was the founder and former chair of the Governor's Biotechnology Partnership, and was named Governor of the Year by the Biotechnology Industry Organization, an industry lobbying group.[19]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vilsack
terri_emory
Alba, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 28, 2011
6:22 AM

Post #8334738

This is very sad! At the risk of sounding like an old grouch, what the heck was wrong with the old alfalfa?
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

January 28, 2011
8:49 AM

Post #8335018

It didn't cost enough to make Monsanto stockholders fatter.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 28, 2011
8:58 AM

Post #8335042

When I read articles such as this, I'm glad I don't have grandchildren! Future generations will suffer the consquenses of these greedy b@#$%^&d's!
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

January 28, 2011
9:11 AM

Post #8335075

Me too. What's really creepy is that since alfalfa is used for hay for all kinds of animals, that means GMOs will be solidly throughout the food system--meat, as well as soybeans, corn, and coming up next, sugar beets.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 28, 2011
9:19 AM

Post #8335089

paracelsus - that's exactly what my hubby and I have said to each other.

I have heard that Whole Foods will be building in the Charlotte area next year. I'm hoping they will cary non-GMO produce.
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

January 28, 2011
9:58 AM

Post #8335144

I hear ya. We have a co-op about 1/2 hour away where I get most of my organic produce. Our local grocery had some, but they started shrink-wrapping it. Talk about a contradiction--organic produce wrapped in hot plastic.

It just so happens that after posting this, I went to check out Common Dreams, which I often read. They have an article about GMOs, Vilsack, and three organic biggies, one of which is Whole Foods:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/28-8

Apparently, the heads of Whole Foods and Stoneyfield are freinds with Vilsack and contributed to his campaign. Along with Organic Valley, Whole Foods and Stoneyfield have said they will not oppose GMO crops anymore as long as they are "regulated" or if organic farmers are compensated with cash if their crops get contaminated. Fat lot of good that will do the soil.

Well, that is just disgusting.

This message was edited Jan 28, 2011 1:07 PM

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2011
10:17 AM

Post #8335190

That is so discouraging. It just makes me sick. The thing to do is to find an organic producer that won't accept them - if possible - and then vote with our dollars.
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

January 28, 2011
10:26 AM

Post #8335203

Exactly. The article did say that if you stick to certified organic, you should be okay. You know, this puts a whole new spin on the farmers who are saying they don't want to get organic certification because it is costly and who are instead marketing their stuff as "naturally grown." There is no testing for GMO contamination then. You'd have to really pick and choose.

This whole thing is why I quit eating corn a few years ago, much as I love it.
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 28, 2011
10:28 AM

Post #8335207

Watch the video "Food, Inc." It is the scariest thing I have ever seen in my 69 years. Our children and grandchildren do not have a chance for a healthy life. When you see the connection between Monsanto and the guvmint employees that are supposed reign them in, you will see where the money trail is. The Iowa governor is a strong example of money talks.

There is already no way to avoid GE corn in our diets as there is some part of corn in most everything. Since alfalfa or corn are the main feed sources for the animals we eat...well there you are.

Instead of giving money to the farmers whose crops are "contaminated", Monsanto hunts them down like criminals and runs them out of business. I'm feeling sick.

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2011
10:34 AM

Post #8335213

I don't buy corn either, except very rarely. There's a farm stand right down the road that has wonderful corn but I'm sure it's GMO since it mostly all is. Last summer I made a clambake recipe from a Martha Steward magazine, and it called for corn. They had organic corn in the supermarket and I bought some although I expected it wouldn't be much good, having been spoiled by freshly picked corn from the neighboring farm. But it was surprisingly tasty. Expensive, though.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2011
12:10 PM

Post #8335302

I'm glad to see others are getting wind of this travesty. I read a similar article in NY Times and also on the Organic Consumers Corp site that Common Dreams posted. I hope people stand up and shout out loud, surely it can be stopped even at this late date. I noticed near the bottom of the CommonDreams article there is a link to sign a petition. I suppose I may also print out the article and give to my mkt customers as well.

If ya'll want non-gmo corn you'll have to grow your own (or know someone who does) then save seed. Course now, there is still lots of non-GMO seed available but guess we'll see for how long, once it becomes the norm.

And yep, that's just for eating fresh corn. As someone says, corn is in everything from drinks to processed foods, animal feed. Bummer.

Shoe

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 28, 2011
12:56 PM

Post #8335365

LouC - I watched the Food.Inc movie from beginning to end. I feel scared for my children, and future generations. Fortunately, I can still walk outside my back door during the summer and gather fresh, organic produce, but am wondering if one day that will be illegal, too!

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2011
4:21 PM

Post #8335808

Hmm... somehow, their messing with alfalfa hits me harder than the other stuff has. I guess because I have used it so much in my gardens. Interestingly, I just, right before this ---- decision got made, ordered some alfalfa seed, to have some growing. I feel like when it gets here, I should apologize to it. Maybe I should put some of it in a vault somewhere.

sheesh.

I too hope an appeal to this mess ends up working, and I am sure the various organizations who have mobilized about this issue won't stop working on it as long as any avenues remain...

Honeybee, I refuse fear, on principle. It wastes my energy. All we can do, is what we can do. This is a good Earth still.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2011
4:37 PM

Post #8335833

I think we should keep in mind that the alfalfa seed is being created mainly for the big agri-business farms, not necessarily for us smaller gardeners/farmers. Those farms have to sign papers and agreements to use it so I doubt the GMO seed will be readily available to the general public any time soon. Kyla, if you got alfalfa seed I'd say there is an excellent chance it is non-GMO. Feel safe, be happy.

I hope this helps.

Shoe

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2011
6:08 PM

Post #8335959

Oh I know what I am getting is non GMO! but the thing is, how long will there be truly non GMO seed around, when the gm stuff starts getting planted, in big operations, cross pollinating and blowin in the breeze... that's the big issue IMO.

And you betcha, I feel very safe, and thanks for the good wishes. :)

but I bet it will be available darn soon, cause I bet they have it and all their signed papers and stuff just waiting for the government go ahead. So, we shall see!
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

January 29, 2011
8:03 AM

Post #8336697

I bet they do, too. And when it goes into action it'll be the perfect precedent to allow other crops to follow. Ugh.

Shoe (who's glad he's in an isolated area from big agribiz farms)
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 29, 2011
8:09 AM

Post #8336707

I am on a couple of lists that send me copies of petitions to sign and they go directly to the representatives in my district. In that I live in Texas and the dollar rules, I have little confidence in my "no" vote. We are preparing to hibernate for the next 10 days. The Super Bowl facility is less that 25 miles from our home. Everyone has gone crazy.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2011
10:01 AM

Post #8336873

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_22449.cfm

This is a link from Organic Consumer Association saying that Whole Foods, Organic Valley and Stoneyfields have decided its time to surrender to Monsanto.

It's a very sad read for those devoted to organic living.

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 29, 2011
11:14 AM

Post #8337029

oof. thanks for that link though...

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2011
11:27 AM

Post #8337049

I have sent Whole Foods an email asking if the contents of this article is true.

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/company/service.php

People in their "Food Politics Forum" also seem to be upset about this decision.

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/forums/index.php?plckForumPage=Forum&plckForumId=Cat:8c8a349d-cbd8-4475-986c-2420c40686b5Forum:c1ab1da5-367b-47c9-993f-156a02507b52

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 29, 2011
8:37 PM

Post #8337961

Well, let's keep our eyes open. Someone shared this just now and it puts things in a different light:

http://www.nongmoproject.org/2011/01/29/team-organic-will-never-surrender-to-monsanto-now-we-continue-the-fight-together/

Honeybee, let us know if you get a response from Whole Foods...

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 30, 2011
3:48 AM

Post #8338158

Kyla, if one can believe what Megan says, what a relief! I will be interested in hearing whether Honeybee gets a response from Whole Foods and whether they echo Megan's points.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 30, 2011
9:11 AM

Post #8338604

Thank goodness for individuals such as Megan.

If/when I receive a response from Whole Foods, I will share it with y'all.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

January 30, 2011
1:29 PM

Post #8338965

Kyla, thanks for posting that link, I was glad I got to read that. Great info! I'll share it with others.

Shoe

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 30, 2011
1:39 PM

Post #8338985

Well, hold the phone, here is a rebuttal of sorts:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ronnie-cummins/the-organic-elite-surrend_b_815346.html?ref=fb&src=sp

"The so-called Non-GMO Project, funded by Whole Foods and giant wholesaler United Natural Foods (UNFI) is basically a greenwashing effort (although the 100% organic companies involved in this project seem to be operating in good faith) to show that certified organic foods are basically free from GMOs (we already know this since GMOs are banned in organic production), while failing to focus on so-called "natural" foods, which constitute most of WFM and UNFI's sales and are routinely contaminated with GMOs."

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 30, 2011
2:16 PM

Post #8339051

Here's a link from Stoneyfield that explains what "co-existance" really means...

http://www.stonyfield.com/blog/2011/01/29/the-organic-community-must-come-out-swinging-at-the-right-opponents/

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 30, 2011
5:39 PM

Post #8339460

Honeybee, thanks for posting that. It sounds as though people in the same camp are for some reason trying to divide that camp and sow dissension and distrust. How appalling!

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 31, 2011
12:06 PM

Post #8340848

greenhouse_gal - I think people are just confused. Hopefully the picture will become clearer over the next few weeks/months.

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 31, 2011
12:19 PM

Post #8340886

I do hope so. I have grandkids and I'd like to think they'll have access to unadulterated and untampered-with foods as they grow up!

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 31, 2011
12:54 PM

Post #8340950

Here's a link where you can send an email to the President telling him what you think of GMOs.

http://ota.capwiz.com/ota/issues/alert/?alertid=24747501

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 31, 2011
1:45 PM

Post #8341043

I think this is still a good thing, all the attention from the public on this issue -- whether or not it turns out some or any of the big Organic vendors have "sold out."

We do know that anything certified organic is not GMO. We also know that products that are not certified 100% organic MAY contain GM ingredients. That has not changed. What this is doing is once again activating the public who are committed to any extent to an organic (sustainable, not-messed-with, non-toxic, non-GMO) diet and lifestyle, to express our preferences and our intentions to whomever it seems might have the power to affect decisions.

Yep, Monsanto is a seemingly nigh unstoppable juggernaut. But even so, but even so, voices raised for sanity do have an effect. People get educated during these types of events to more of the ins and outs and market machinations that, let's face it, go on all the time.

Being educated and aware is always always a good thing. Expressing preferences for sane and healthy land management and growing practices, and for sane and healthy products in our stores, is always! a good thing.

We don't have to eat corn and soy, and we can even learn to live without alfalfa if need be... We still have good ways to produce good food on this earth.

And tides have been known to turn.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 31, 2011
2:02 PM

Post #8341078

Kylaluaz - Soy, Corn and Alfalfa are fed to cows, hogs, chickens, turkeys, etc. GMOs are like second-hand smoke - they will get into our food supply one way or another.

Sugar beets are also GE'd - so the sugar you put on your cereal has GMOs.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

January 31, 2011
2:15 PM

Post #8341107

"activating the public". That's a great way to put it Kyla, and your perspective is a good positive read. How true.

Honeybee, thanks for the link above.

Shoe

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 31, 2011
2:37 PM

Post #8341152

Not if the sugar's organic, Honeybee!

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 31, 2011
3:23 PM

Post #8341225

I don't put sugar on my cereal! ;) Honeybee, I know, the feeds for livestock is a big big issue. Even so... I can choose not to eat meat, if I really want to get hogwild on this, pardon the pun... and I can also choose to only eat meat that is grassfed grass finished locally grown.

admittedly that is more expensive by far! and also many people even if they can afford those options don't have much access... Even so.

Please know I am not in any way meaning to make light of the seriousness of the issue! But at the same time if we end up just feeling powerless in the face of the "big dogs" we are whupped from the get go... I suspect, if there is a purpose behind the confusion and misdirection of some of these messages flying around the internet, or shall I say, if there is a nefarious purpose, it is just that, to make people throw up their hands and say "I can't fight it it's too confusing." I'm just trying to say, not so! and that there is a way to keep our eyes on the basic points...

Tides have been known to turn, so I am swimming in the direction I want to go in, as best I can.

:)
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

January 31, 2011
7:14 PM

Post #8341626

Well, on a semi-good note, Monsanto seeds were turned down (and burned) in this country. "Semi" good because those folks need the seed, "Good" that they didn't get locked into Monsanto GMO seed.

http://www.truth-out.org/the-new-earthquake-manifest-haiti-monsantos-destiny66930

Shoe (who wishes he could grow enough seed to send to those who need it)

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 1, 2011
7:40 AM

Post #8342490

Horseshoe - towards the bottom of the page you linked to, there is a correction noting that not all the seeds were burned.

It's located immediately above the banner: "Email this story to a friend"
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 1, 2011
9:37 AM

Post #8342777

Tell your congressional reps and send a message to the president. Obama still has an opportunity to veto the alfalfa bill. Quit wringing your hands and DO SOMETHING!
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
9:43 AM

Post #8342804

Did that, LouC. And like you I encourage others to do the same.

Honeybee, thanks. I went back and read the authors addition. (Now that's the sign of a good reporter, by the way!) Good goin'!

Shoe
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 1, 2011
9:48 AM

Post #8342819

Still recommend every single American should see the video Food, Inc. Monsanto "owns" the Department of Agriculture in the USA.

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
10:39 AM

Post #8342965

On another forum someone posted this just now:

"There are a lot of instructions on line for protecting plants from gene flow. My son said a long time ago that we would end up growing crops in greenhouses, and that is what it has come to. There are even instructions for helping hybrids return to their normal state – 8 generations of seed harvesting, or 8 years, is how long it takes. We can’t fear the future, and we can’t change the past. Thinking in the present is near impossible, but it is required for the moment we are in, which is endless and forever, and too big to fail. Failure is simply not an option.

If any readers are interested in the hybrid process, this is quite an educational and easy to read website with visuals. http://kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes.html

A tomato hybrid can be returned to 99 percent pure heirloom in 8 years, and near 100 percent (though never perfect) in 14 years.

Low tunnel gardening is becoming a popular way to protect plants from gene flow, but there is no way to grow hay under a cover. Monsanto has to be stopped."

I thought that was useful, and worth sharing.

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
10:53 AM

Post #8343025

And this organization seems to be a good one to follow through with:

Dear Friend,

Last week President Obama and Secretary Vilsack approved Monsanto's GMO alfalfa, a move that fundamentally undermines the organic dairy and beef industries. As a main feed crop for organic livestock, the planting of Monsanto's GMO alfalfa will result in genetic contamination of organic and non-GMO alfalfa, thus making it hard for organic farmers to meet USDA organic standards that require organic feed for certification and also the loss of important overseas markets for conventional farmers that grow non-GMO alfalfa for foreign consumers who refuse to accept GMOs as safe for human consumption.

While our friends at Center for Food Safety are filing a court injunction to stop this from going forward, I think it's important that President Obama and Secretary Vilsack hear from the millions of Americans who are disappointed by this unwise decision. As, you already know, approving GMO alfalfa will potentially destroy the integrity of and access to organic food, as well as the livelihoods of organic farmers.

Please join me in telling President Obama that you are deeply disappointment decision and tell all of your friends who care about organics to join us. It is outrageous to risk the contamination of the organic dairy industry simply for Monsanto's corporate profits.

Please take a moment to let President Obama and Secretary Vilsack know that you care about organic integrity by following this link from Food Democracy Now! Then please pass this on.

http://action.fooddemocracynow.org/sign/declaration_of_farmer_and_citizen_rights/?referring_akid=294.4533.s85_Rd&source=mailto

Every voice counts!

Thank you!
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 1, 2011
11:27 AM

Post #8343126

I signed and also added to my facebook page.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 1, 2011
11:33 AM

Post #8343139

I have received a reply to my email to Whole Foods. It is copywrited, so I cannot reprint or forward it to you.

They did say choosing organic is a way consumers can avoid GMO foods, and that they are strong supporters of labeling foods that contain GMOs.

To sum it up - don't worry folks, they have NOT capitulated.


HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 1, 2011
11:36 AM

Post #8343146

I, too, have written to the President asking that "genetically engineered" be on the label of all foods to which is applies, including fresh produce.

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
12:40 PM

Post #8343276

Where did you write, Honeybee? I'm always afraid that letters like that will just disappear into the ether...

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 1, 2011
1:05 PM

Post #8343340

GG - I went to Whole Foods web site and wrote them an email from here:

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/company/service.php

asking them if the content of this article is true.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_22449.cfm

Their answer in a nutshell was "No" and that the truth had been distorted.





greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
1:08 PM

Post #8343349

Oh, sorry, I meant writing to the President. I think it's great that you wrote to Whole Foods, though, and it sounds as though what you were told tallies with what Megan said on the other site that Kyla found. I wonder why Whole Foods didn't want their reply shared, though.
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

February 1, 2011
1:32 PM

Post #8343403

Because they listen to lawyers more than they listen to their conscence.

It's true that with organic, you have a much higher probability of not getting GMOs. But there is still contamination of GMOs in organic corn and soy, from what I have read. There is no way to keep it out, although it can be tested. I don't know how widespread testing for GMOs in food is. I know it's done with seed by some companies. One reason why I like Fedco Seed is because they test for the presence of GMOs in their seeds.

We can avoid stuff that is contaminated with GMOs, buy organic, and learn to grow more of our own food from non-GMO seed.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 1, 2011
1:32 PM

Post #8343405

GG here's the link where you can write to the President

http://ota.capwiz.com/ota/issues/alert/?alertid=24747501

You'll get an email acknowledgement from the OTA. I don't usually enter my name and address into online web sites, but I felt so strongly about this issue, I made an exception. Now I'll probably get all kinds of letters in the mail requesting donations!

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 1, 2011
1:39 PM

Post #8343428

GG - this was part of the footnote in the email Whole Foods sent me:

This email is the copyright of Whole Food Market IP, LP.

I'm not sure if I should even quote this part LOL

Edited: Quote box was/is not working!



This message was edited Feb 1, 2011 5:40 PM

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 1, 2011
1:44 PM

Post #8343439

GG - this was part of the footnote in the email Whole Foods sent me:

Quoting:This email is the copyright of Whole Food Market IP, LP.


I'm not sure if I should even quote this part LOL

Edited: Quote box was/is not working!
Edited again - figured out I was using the wrong brackets! (She said, smacking herself, because she learned HTML many moons ago!)




Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
2:14 PM

Post #8343506

Well, shoot, if they want their reputation defended they should release the contents of that letter. IMO you can quote large sections of it under "fair use" as long as you say where it is from and all that.

Greenhouse gal, here is another link where you can write to the Prez:


http://action.fooddemocracynow.org/sign/declaration_of_farmer_and_citizen_rights/?referring_akid=294.4533.s85_Rd&source=mailto

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
2:21 PM

Post #8343527

Yeah, I always forget which brackets to use; it seems to be different depending on the site. Thanks for the links, though. I don't like to put my name on websites either, and recently doing so triggered a whole spate of politically-oriented begging letters via email. It's a shame...

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
2:49 PM

Post #8343575

You can unsubscribe pretty easily from those lists, I've found. I know what you mean though. Still, for me, some issues are worth taking the risk of a little exposure or inconvenience later on...
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 1, 2011
4:10 PM

Post #8343748

I have become a target for just a couple of organizations that are fighting GMO. Has not been a problem so far. No snail mail or phone calls and only one or two extra emails. If we don't bury our paranoia and speak out for ourselves, we are giving them free range to destroy the future generations of our children.

Guess it is obvious I am very passionate about this.

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
4:30 PM

Post #8343793

Good points, LouC.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

February 1, 2011
7:30 PM

Post #8344125

"This email is the copyright of Whole Food Market IP, LP.
I'm not sure if I should even quote this part LOL"

Honeybee, I agree with Kyla...you're not breaking a copyright law if you give the source when you share it. Copyrights are so others can't claim the work/words as their own.

I'm happy to see interested people in this/these issues.

Shoe

LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 2, 2011
7:35 AM

Post #8344789

Oprah had Michael Pollan on her show yesterday. Not in favor of going vegan but at least when she points at something the masses take note.
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 2, 2011
2:35 PM

Post #8345555

http://www.takepart.com/foodinc

This message was edited Feb 2, 2011 4:36 PM

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 2, 2011
3:51 PM

Post #8345651

I got my precious little packet of organic Alfalfa seeds today. Precious not cause they cost all that much but because, well, you know.

Even when I ordered them I was not sure what I am gonna do with them and still not sure! I am in a new garden here and just know I'd like some alfalfa growing. It is a beautiful plant with lovely flowers, for one thing. Sorry, getting a bit OT here...

Michael Pollan is a good guy, sowing sense in the public mind. Glad he got on Oprah. I'm not going vegan either, but even so.
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

February 4, 2011
12:42 PM

Post #8353597

Looks like those seeds will indeed turn out to be precious, kylaluaz:

"Some biotechnology officials have predicted that U.S. farmers will use genetically modified seeds to grow half of the nation's alfalfa."

Right now, they use, basically, none. This is from the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703399204576108601430251740.html

This article was especially interesting because it reported that Obama had asked the USDA head to allow the GMO alfala in order that the Obama administration not look hostile to big biz. Good grief.

Kylaluaz

Kylaluaz
Richmond, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 4, 2011
3:20 PM

Post #8353914

maybe we should order all a bunch of organic alfalfa seeds and, like, horde it. Or bank it somehow.

wonder if anyone is doing that, somewhere out there...

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