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Daylilies: starting seeds with wet papertowels

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iowamomof3
Oskaloosa, IA
(Zone 5a)

February 3, 2011
8:00 PM

Post #8352403

I had good luck lastyear using peroxide and water to start my seeds last year. Thanks to seedsower sending me her directions. I have heard of people putting them in papertowels and then placing them on the top of there fridge. Anyone here that has a successful way of starting seeds, or can give me directions on how to do the papertowel method? I recently purchased some seeds from the LA and would hate to mess them up. Thanks, Kim
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 3, 2011
8:19 PM

Post #8352441

Kim, I asked the similar questions a couple of weeks ago - so here is the link to the thread: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1148154/ (hopefully this worked). There is another link in this thread, which I was unable to copy, that had really good information.

I actually have seeds in the fridge, and on top of the fridge - all in wet paper towels with 10% hydrogen peroxide solution. I'm experimenting, since I had some begin sprouting early. I also bought some from the auction, and received some from Sandy (Seedsower). Some of my auction ones I were groups of crosses, that I bought more to experiment with, before I tried to grow the ones I really want - likes Sandy's .

My fridge ones have not been in for the required 3 weeks yet, although I have pulled a couple that began germinating and have planted them already. My top o' the fridge ones, some have germinated, some haven't. I have seen that one batch of seeds I have, Dance Bojangles Dance crosses, are VERY vigorous; a bit of moisture, and within a day or 4 - I have to plant them already!

Good luck! The daylilies seedlings are like my babies - talk about an obsession!! ~Jan

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lovelyiris
Winnsboro, TX

February 4, 2011
7:55 AM

Post #8352994

Ya'll might want to look up "Starting Daylilies on the Rocks". I have used both methods and this one takes up very little space and you can see the seedlings starting to root without opening anything and poking around and distrubing them.
Since these little cups have clear lids you can just write the name on the top or sides of the cups. I started each different cross in one cup. Alot easier to keep up with this way too. Only problem I really had was starting way too many seeds at one time because it was so darn easy. You must remember once you start them, you have to plant them somewhere they will be protected until you can get them in the ground or else where. As for me once they started growing showing roots, I planted them in plastic shoe boxes and I could get between 50-75 seeds in each box and still keep up with the different crosses by using tiny pieces of mini blinds or plastic knives with the crosses written on them. Of course I was just playing with seeds that I had bought off the LA too. I think I grew around 600 seedlings. I still don't know what all I got and I'm anxiously awaiting to see them blooms this summer. Good Luck Ladies,
Marian
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 5, 2011
9:23 AM

Post #8355310

Marian, I did go get some plastic shoe boxes because of you in an earlier post somewhere in the forum, found them for 99 cents at Home Depot last week. I still have my DL in individual cups though, but those shoe boxes help with containing them.

I tried to find a thread about "starting daylilies on the rocks" and couldn't find it. I like the aspect of not having to mess with the papertowels to see if the DL are germinating or not. Can you give me some additional info? Thanks ~Jan
mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 5, 2011
11:03 AM

Post #8355467

Jan I just cut small pieces of paper towel to fit inside the small plastic baggie in a single layer, moistened and reseal, you can see what the seeds are doing without opening anything.

Margaret
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 5, 2011
11:17 AM

Post #8355489

Oh I like that idea! I have some additional seeds arriving in mid February from the LA, and I think I will do it your way, instead of folding up the paper towels, and unfolding them, and refolding them...
mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 5, 2011
11:29 AM

Post #8355513

If you only want to start part of your seeds you can buy extra little baggies at Michael's or Walmart.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 5, 2011
11:49 AM

Post #8355560

I actually picked up some of those little baggies the other day, then put them back - because even if I did collect any seeds this year, that wouldn't be for months! Hahaha. I live so far away from any big box store, that I generally try to get everything I need, or even think I might need when I do go.

OK, going back on my list for next time!!!
mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 5, 2011
12:01 PM

Post #8355586

Those baggies are great, I used them to collect seeds from others plants as well, its easy to collect a few extra to share with friends.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 6, 2011
3:10 PM

Post #8357709

Here is the way I start Daylily seeds and now have 72 seedling growing. Some are from my own crosses, others are those I bought, still other from LA. This is the only way to start them. It is called the Deno Method, from Dr. Deno who invented it.

There is nothing to buy (except seeds). You use what you already have such as Peroxide, and kitchen paper towels. Mix Peroxide 10 parts water to 1 part Peroxide and store in jar.

I have discovered that some varieties of daylilies take longer to germinate compared to others. Some within a week, other weeks.

I have had the best luck by first soaking the seeds overnight in hand hot water to plump them up. Then cut a kitchen paper towel in 4th, dip in Peroxide solution and squeeze out until the towel is damp. Fold it over and place the seeds in the center. Fold the towel over the seeds and place the package in a small plastic bag, or Baggie. Since Daylily seeds require stratification (moist cold) place the bag in the fridge for a minimum of 3 weeks for stratify. After 3 weeks, place seed package at room temp where they will germinate erratically. Check on the seeds at least 2x/week. and plant those that have sprouted. I

I plant them in potting soil in 6-packs. These are about 1" or so in diameter. Once they are growing, and developed 3 leaves, I pot them to a foam coffee cup after punching drainage hole with a screwdriver.

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blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 6, 2011
3:16 PM

Post #8357721

I use the Deno Method on all perennial seeds. Those that does not need stratification (most do) I skip the cold fridge treatment. The great thing about this method is that there is no wasted seeds, except those which would not germinate anyway.

Below are last year's crop of Daylilies overwintering in my coldframe. Sown October 2009, and planted in the coldframe May 2010. Photo taken August 2010.

Edited to add that these Daylily seedlings are my own crosses.



This message was edited Feb 6, 2011 4:17 PM

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philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 6, 2011
5:19 PM

Post #8357905

So storing them in the fridge doesn't count as stratification? I am guessing stratification doesn't occur unless it is cold temps + moisture, correct? ~Jan

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 6, 2011
11:13 PM

Post #8358329

Jan, correct. I store my seeds in the fridge but seeds need moisture with cold to become stratified. In nature cold goes with moisture and that is what you are imitating and what breaks dormancy.

I am stratifying my last batch of seeds in the fridge to be ready to bring to room temp in 2 weeks for germination.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 7, 2011
4:53 AM

Post #8358486

NOW I get it! Thanks
Jan
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 7, 2011
6:17 AM

Post #8358703

For some reason my fridge always has too much moisture so I don't need to do the wet paper towel thing. In fact I often have seeds get moldy so I have to add some of those little silica gel packets that come in medicine bottles to my crispers to prevent too much moisture.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 7, 2011
2:02 PM

Post #8359573

hemlay, That is strange about your fridge. Try dipping the seeds in the Peroxide solution mentioned in my posting above. It prevents mold.
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 7, 2011
4:33 PM

Post #8359864

Ok, thanks blomma.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 16, 2011
6:17 PM

Post #8376090

My Deno methods of starting seeds have worked too well. Here are 36 seedlings started end of 2010. More on top shelf. I have another 29 seedlings in my office on a shelf under lights. That isn't even counting the seeds yet in the fridge for another 2 weeks that I won on LA and more from a Dave's member.

Those on the plant stand I will keep since they are not my crosses. Those in my office are my own crosses and I will keep one or two of each cross and give the others to my daughter for lack of garden space. This coming summer I will do lots of crosses of both Daylilies and Irises since now I know more what I am doing.

I also have Iris seedling in my coldframe plus new crosses made last summer that are planted in a plastic box and kept outside for stratification. They will germinate with warm spring weather.

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blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 16, 2011
6:34 PM

Post #8376127

Here are seeds I won on LA. They were soaked overnight then placed in moist kitchen towel in the fridge on Jan 19 until Feb 16 when I noticed that 3 had sprouted. Photo taken today just prior to potting up. As seen, it is difficult to judge which end is up. I figured they know which way is up so planted them on their sides. The seeds are from the LA and the cross is Rob Cobb x Forestlake Ragamuffin.. Love that Forestlake Ragamuffin.

This message was edited Feb 16, 2011 7:35 PM

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philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 16, 2011
6:58 PM

Post #8376170

I have done all sorts of things with my DL seeds this year. The two most recent batches that came out of the fridge, are on the rocks - yanno, I think I am going to LIKE that method. By day 4, all the ones I put in last week had begun germinating. I stuck a few more on rocks on Monday, so I will see if they germinate as quickly this second time around.~j
nhuntley
Holladay, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 17, 2011
2:11 PM

Post #8377607

blomma, your seedlings look so much better than mine. I've got to be doing something wrong!
mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 17, 2011
3:43 PM

Post #8377771

Lilly I notice that you have trimmed your seedlings, mine are getting pretty tall and I'm wondering if maybe I should trim mine.

Margaret
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 17, 2011
3:55 PM

Post #8377790

Why trim them? ~j
TroubleX2
Montgomery, TX
(Zone 9a)

February 17, 2011
3:56 PM

Post #8377791

What is on rocks?
mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 17, 2011
4:07 PM

Post #8377806

Their getting top heavy and will soon be too tall to fit under the grow light. I do hate the thought of trimming my babies.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 17, 2011
4:07 PM

Post #8377807

Try this link (if it works) for information about starting DL seeds on the rocks. I am using aquarium gravel, 10%peroxide water, and instead of individual 'cups' with lids, had an old divided plastic "bead" bin around that I am using instead

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1157277/

Definatly interesting! And so far, is working (but so have all the other ways I have tried!) ~j
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 17, 2011
4:08 PM

Post #8377810

Thanks! I too would hate to trim my babies! ~j

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 17, 2011
4:08 PM

Post #8377811

nhuntley, Thank you. Yes, I'm pleased with how they are growing.

What do yours look like? If you can, post a photo. Then tell me what you are doing with them.

I plant the seeds after they sprouted in a 6-pack. The square pots are only 1-1/2" across. I leave them growing in there until they produce 3 or 4 leaves. The reason I plant them in a small pot is to prevent overwatering and rot since they only sprouted and don't have a good root system yet. I also water them with Quick Start, a transplanting solution that helps plants become established quicker. That I do only once after transplanting.

After they have produced the leaves, I transplant them to a foam coffee pot which is about 3" in diameter. Again, the first watering they get is Quick Start. Two weeks later I begin feeding with Miracle-Gro at 1/4th the strenght. I use regular potting soil and allow the top to dry out a bit between watering.

Ofcourse, once they have broken throught the soil, they are placed under Grow lights which is on for 16 hours per day. The lights are hooked up to a timer.

As far as planting on the rocks. It makes no sense to me. The small zip lock bags containing seeds don't take up much room stacked in a plastic container in the fridge. Besides that, I like opening up to see if they have sprouted or not. Also I don't have to spend money on gravel and containers. The 2" x 3" baggies cost $1.00 in Walmart. for 100.

But, to each its own...

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 17, 2011
4:17 PM

Post #8377826

Hi Margaret You have a sharp eye. Yes, I read somewhere from a grower that you can trim the leaves of both Iris and Daylily seedling. I did that last year also since they were getting too tall to fit under the grow lights. I just trim enough so that the top of the leaves are 1" below the tubes. They produce additional leaves from the center so it does not do any damage. Most likely it is beneficial since then more leaves will receive light more evenly.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 17, 2011
4:29 PM

Post #8377847

I have noticed that seeds from the same pod tend to germinate more or less within a week of each other. Also, some from the same pod takes longer than those from another variety.

I am curious. I wonder if it has something to do with their hardiness. Meaning, those labeled evergreen or semi-evergreen tend to sprout sooner than those that are dormant types. I have mostly dormant types and a few semievergreens. I will check that out.
mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 17, 2011
5:02 PM

Post #8377915

Thanks Lilly, it won't be too much longer and they will be touching the light so I think they are going to need a little trim.

Margaret
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 17, 2011
7:39 PM

Post #8378207

Like I mentioned, I am experimenting this year since it is my first year doing this. So I am trying a variety of methods to see which I have the most fun doing. (It's all about having fun, isn't it?)

The first batches I started, I put into snack size plastic bags with wet (10% hydrogen peroxide) paper towels. Half went into the fridge, half on top of the fridge. I checked them constantly. I had decent germination, and some started while still in the fridge. After complaining about wrapping & unwrapping those seeds from the paper towels, Blomma turned me on to those small bags from Walmart, so I bought some of them. Instead of wrapping the seeds in the paper towel, I stuck in the towel, and some seeds in a single layer in the smaller bags, and that solved that problem.

Quite by accident, I also discovered those square face wipes work REALLY well in place of the wet paper towel. I cut them in half.

Since reading about the 'rocks' method, I now have some germinating that way. This most recent batch I removed from the fridge, I have a dozen crosses on the rocks right now. It didn't cost me any money because I already had the aquarium gravel at home, and the divided plastic bin. I do like being able to just pop open the lid, and look at all of the little sections all at once. I have to be careful how I handle it though, if I drop it, I might mix up some of the seeds if they shift into the section next to it. But, I don't know, because the individual compartments seem like they close pretty tightly.

After they germinate I plant them in a styrofoam cup with some of that aquarium gravel on the bottom. I use regular potting soil. I have tried 4 different stores, and have been unable to find Quick Start yet. So for now I used distilled water, and dilute miracle grow when they get a little bit bigger. As for the next step, who knows? haven't gotten that far yet! ~j

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 18, 2011
12:01 AM

Post #8378402

Jan, it sounds like you have been a busy girl. It is about having fun (and satisfying our addiction) but also to create a beautiful and unique flower.

Walmart has the Quick Start as does Home Depot. Both stores are getting ready for the summer season in selling so putting out garden items, at least here in WY.

This is my 2nd year of sowing daylilies, the first year of sowing my own creation and purchased seeds. Opening those little plastic bags to peek is one way to pass the winter away. I'm in no hurry and like that they germinate in different days. Less hectic since as soon as they do, I plant them.

I am hoping that the seedlings in my coldframe will bloom this season. Also the irises I started at the same time.

Keep us posted on which in your opinion is the best and easiest way to germinate the seeds. I like my way but open to try other ways too.---Lilly
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
4:20 AM

Post #8378492

LIlly, I have tried two different Walmarts and not found Quick start yet, and a garden store, and a box store. But I will admit that the last time I looked was 2 weeks ago. If I end up at a store this weekend I will check again. I try to stay away from stores as a rule- I spend money at them. But of course, I also try to stay away from DL sites and the auction for the same reason - and it doesn't work very well as I have an order for some DL to stick in the mail this morning!

The 'rocks' method is kinda fun - perhaps because I have them in one of these 'bead' bins. I numbered every compartment, then made a master list so I know exactly which cross is where. Very quick to check them all, all but 3 of the current dozen are germinating. The only issue so far is the condensation that forms on the lid, and that is only a problem when I open it, I have learned to put a towel under it when I do so. I am hoping that this method will allow me to be more patient before planting them into soil, I think on occasion I plant them too early and need to let them grow a few more days. I will post some pictures this weekend.

I actually have a batch in the fridge 'on the rocks' because after reading the method I was anxious to try it, and used some seeds that hadn't had been stratified & chilled yet. Of course, it was while I was home during the blizzard! So I used a chinese takeout container drew lines across it and labeled sections. They come out of the fridge next week. Currently the other way, they are in the small ziplocks in the fridge then on the rocks, which seems like a waste of resources for me. ~ Jan
Delightful_Dawn
Altus, OK
(Zone 7a)

February 18, 2011
5:11 AM

Post #8378549

Alright! Something else to use Hydrogen Peroxide for!

I shop the weekly sales at Walgreens and had managed to somehow stock up on a SERIOUS supply of Hydrogen Peroxide over a period of time. Its pretty sad when for donation time for the various drives that I donate more of that than anything else out of my cupboards!

Starting seeds this way won't go toward depleting my stash very much (still have four unopened bottles) but every bit helps.

I have seeds I need to start so this will be a good experiment.

Dawn
Cem9165
Duluth, GA
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2011
6:53 AM

Post #8378719

I started my seeds last week after soaking for 3 days in hand hot water as recommended. I checked on them after 3 days and found that they had frozen. Will they still be ok? I put them on a lower shelf in the fridge now. Annette
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
7:05 AM

Post #8378740

Dawn, realize that hydrogen peroxide will expire.

This is photo of my former bead bin, now converted to a 'seed' bin. You can see that I numbered each compartment, then I wrote on a scrap of paper which cross was in which bin. I have recently transferred all that info onto a spread sheet.

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philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
7:09 AM

Post #8378746

Cem, I haven't a clue. I would expect that they might because they can freeze outside in the dirt. But I would wait until more experienced folks give their opinion, I am new at this!

Here is a photo of some of my "on the rocks" crosses germinating. Like I mentioned, I do appreciate that with one quick glance I can see what is going on. These 'babies' have been on the rocks since 2/13. They were in the fridge for about 3 weeks prior to this.

Edited to add- sorry they are a bit blurry, the camera focused on the divider, not the seedlings.

This message was edited Feb 18, 2011 9:11 AM

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HazelCrestMikeB

HazelCrestMikeB
Hazel Crest, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
8:12 AM

Post #8378833

Good going Jan. Here is some in three phases.

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HazelCrestMikeB

HazelCrestMikeB
Hazel Crest, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
8:14 AM

Post #8378837

My biggest seedling to date-Woodside Ruby X Unknown. Harvested from my plants last season.

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philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
9:55 AM

Post #8378938

Loves these pics of the 'babies' and it is interesting to see how everyone starts them
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
9:59 AM

Post #8378944

I have to chuckle at myself though, I am so new at this, and so afraid of 'loosing' an entire batch with my experimentation, that when I begin the process, I only start with 1-3 seeds of my chosen crosses! Then I see Mike with a whole BUNCH of seeds... ~j
nhuntley
Holladay, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
10:22 AM

Post #8378973

blomma, thanks for the info about using Quick Start when you plant the seeds. I use it whenever I plant a new plant, or transplant something, but I didn't use it when I planted my seeds! I didn't even think about doing that. I've never really been much of a seed planter, so that's probably why it didn't even cross my mind. I do love that stuff though. I guess I need to fertilize too? My plants look weak to me, so maybe it wouldn't hurt. When you fertilize, do you do it from the top of the pot? I've been doing all of my watering from the bottom, which is what I've read is the correct way to do it to minimize the chance of rot. Also, if watering from the top, do you pour it on the foliage? I always do this when fertilizing the plants outside, but have no idea if I should do this with my new seedlings. I still have a lot to learn.

I've got mine under grow lights too, but the lights are hung on chain from the ceiling so I can raise them as needed. The seedlings are on the bar in the basement that we've never used, so it was a great place to start them. I'm also keeping the heat on, as you suggested, between 65 and 68 degrees (or was it 64 and 67?). It doesn't seem to be making a bit of difference with the heat at that temp, but I'll keep at that temp.

I noticed right away that you had trimmed yours, but figured that it was because they were out of room on the shelves. I'm glad you said that is why you had done it. Otherwise, I would have been wondering if it was something that actually needed to be done.

You've mentioned your cold frame many times, and I'm wondering what the advantage of it is? When was the photo taken? Probably not during the winter? Do you leave the frame up and the plants covered all year? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to figure out if it's worth putting one up.

I'm not posting pictures of my pathetic seedlings! They really look bad!

Natalie
nhuntley
Holladay, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
10:23 AM

Post #8378975

Mike, I used Woodside Ruby myself! I really love it!
nhuntley
Holladay, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
10:27 AM

Post #8378980

Jan, how could you have a "former" bead bin to use for seeds? My other obsession is making beaded jewelry!
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
12:10 PM

Post #8379084

Actually D who is now 25 had it, and left it here. Since I am in the process of trying to get rid of stuff in my house, if it hasn't been used in a year or two, something needs done. In this case, it was recycled as a 'seed' bin! There weren't many beads left anyways! ~j

PS - don't mention it to my daughter...
nhuntley
Holladay, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
12:35 PM

Post #8379129

Jan, your secret probably isn't safe with me, but I'll try not to say anything! It's nice that you found another use for it though. I love using things for new purposes, and I'll have to admit that this one is perfect! I would never have any "former" bead bins, but I could always buy a new one for this specific purpose. Knowing me though, seeds would never make their way into it, and I'd have it crammed full of beads in no time.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
1:17 PM

Post #8379205

Use it for seeds in the winter/ springtime, and beads the rest of the year!
kimbar
Beaverton, MI

February 18, 2011
7:12 PM

Post #8379904

And here i washed a kfc container to do my seeds on the rocks, who would of thought.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 18, 2011
8:18 PM

Post #8379963

Well, my first batch was in a chinese take out container, so that seems right Kim! ~j
kimbar
Beaverton, MI

February 18, 2011
8:36 PM

Post #8379982

you crack me up. i didn't spend alot of money to start mine i just used what i had around the house.
Most people would think we are silly you did what for flowers.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 18, 2011
10:05 PM

Post #8380050

Natalie You are welcome. To answer your questions. I could not garden without a coldframe. I built it out of scrap lumber the size of a door since that was the size of the lumber I got cheap at Home Depot. It was one of the first things I built when I bougth the house. I have always had one and couldn't imagine gardening without one.

When I start sowing in the house, all seedlings get transplanted to the coldframe. I have a frame that is mounted with shade cloth. I built it against my link fence so that the fence can be used to hold the shade frame open. I also have a grate (what is put down before cement to give strenght) that I place over to keep animals out when needed. Right now daylily and iris seedling are in there since May of 2010. They will remain there until after blooming (I hope for this season). The daylilies are from bee pollinated iris and daylilies with some purchased seeds I sowed. .

The plants don't get any cover over the winter. I want to see if they are hardy. I also use the coldframe for perennials when I start those. I will skip this year since no room with the daylilies I have now growing. Safe planting date here is end of May. However, if I wanted to, I could plant seedlings earlier in the coldframe if I put plastic on the shade cloth frame and closed it. Potted plants and seedlings in flate can be placed in there also to harden off.

The coldframe is just a box placed on top of the soil. I dug some of the garden soil out and replaced it with purchased humus mixing it in with the rest of the garden soil.

The advantage of a coldframe is that you have control over the health and safety of small seedlings since they are growing in an enclosed area.

I bought a coldframe last year when I saw them at Sam's Club. It is made out of hard plastic for $34. It is about as large as my homemade one. Figured, just in case I need more room also incase they discontinue selling them. Actually they are selling them this year also.

Once you have a coldframe and use it, you never want to be without one. Just think, all your babies can be placed in one this spring and be protected.
_______________________________________________________________

Keep the heat at 65 to 68. Even 70 won't hurt them. They will grow slower but be less lanky. You don't want to force growth with too much heat when they are starting out.

Water any plant from the bottom. I place pots in a pan or container of water, or fertilizer then pour some on the soil to start the wick action. The soil will be syphoned up from the bottom and be distributed throughout the whole rootball. The reason to water this way is that if the soil in the pot is too dry and you water from the top only, the water will just seep down between the soil and the wall of the pot. Soil when dried out shrinks away from the pot leaving space for the water to just run down. The result is that the root ball will not get a watered all the way through. This goes for jiffy pots, and peat pots also.

If you fertilize with Miracle-Grow, yes you can spray the stuff on the leaves. The seedlings can take the ferilizer up through the leaves. Surely will not hurt them.

Below is the coldframe empty. Photo taken in October. 2002. It is getting old. The photo with the daylilies in my post above was taken in August 2010

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

iowamomof3
Oskaloosa, IA
(Zone 5a)

February 19, 2011
8:58 AM

Post #8380524

Could you use old windows from your house to make a cold frame? We have been replacing windows and I had dh keep some but I don't know if you could make a cold frame with them or not ? Any ideas? Kim

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 19, 2011
9:57 AM

Post #8380639

Hi Kim, Sure you can, lucky you. A coldframe is not fancy. If you build the box the size of your windows that you want you can attach the window with hinges in the back. In other words, if you have--ex 3 windows that together measures 6 ft in lenght and 3 ft deep when placed side to side, then make the box that size. The boards are 1" thick and are hinged together on the corners with an L-shaped hinge. If you can swing a hammer, you can build one easily.

If you prefer, you can remove the glass and use the frame to mount shade cloth on. Walmart will be selling packaged shade cloth. They did last year. Or Home Depot by the yard.

I neglected to add in my above post that I added a cheap aluminum handle to the top frame. Also, the long side of the coldframe should be facing East for morning sun. The cover will then screen against hot afternoon sun when raised. Since mine is against the link fence, I use a chain hooked to the fence and the handle to lower or raise the cover.

Photo below is of bearded iris seedling in planted in my coldframe after it germinated in April. Was planted end of May 2010. The photo was taken in October 2010. Notice the shoot that already are produced. I am hoping they will bloom this year, along with the daylilies. I will move all my plants growing in the coldframe to the garden after I see if they bloom or not.

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

rebloomnut
Cut Bank, MT
(Zone 3a)

February 20, 2011
10:22 AM

Post #8382464

Great Healthy Iris seedling. Looks to be a good multiplier as see shoots on both sides. Please post Pics. if it blooms as it may be a real good healthy plant for the North.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 20, 2011
2:48 PM

Post #8382916

rebloomnut, That is only one of I think 15 seedlings. They are crosses of Buffawn x Joyce Terry. Both are historical. I sure will post if they bloom. I was surprise they developed shoot so soon. Other crosses in the coldframe are Snowflake x CanCan Red, plus daylilies.
rebloomnut
Cut Bank, MT
(Zone 3a)

February 22, 2011
1:43 PM

Post #8386862

Can't wait to see what they produce. I am all in favor of using the historics and getting them into the gene pool.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 8, 2011
10:07 PM

Post #8800103

Here is a photo of the blooms of the seedling I posted above. I think that the pollen parent was Gay Parasol and not Joyce Terry, judging from the looks of one. It grew a few feet away. Bothe seedlings came from the same pod of Buffawn. Interesting to see how different sibs can be.

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

September 9, 2011
3:48 AM

Post #8800193

Love the yellow beards on that second one! ~j
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

September 9, 2011
5:28 PM

Post #8801282

I just start mine in cups in April and May outdoors and put them in the ground in July and August. I get some bloom in 1 year but most bloom in 2 or 3. I have never stratified any seed so the germination runs from as few as 7 days to as long as 30. I plant about 2,000 seeds a year now and don't have much time to fool around with them.

Thumbnail by Lotsalilys
Click the image for an enlarged view.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 9, 2011
8:38 PM

Post #8801582

Jan Thanks. I admit I like the one on the left since it is different. The one on the right looks too much like Gay Parasol, which I have.

Below is one of the seedlings that I sowed in paper towel, stored in fridge for 3 weeks, then potted up to grow under lights. Planted in the coldframe end of May 2010, and it bloomed to my delight August 13, 2011.

Pod parent is HIGHLAND PINCHED FRINGES, a tet. Pollen parent unknown. I got the seeds from Dave member maureenpm00. It too is a polychrome like its pod parent. Height 12" with a 5" bloom. It actually glowed. It is a keeper---so far.

Next season will have the rest blooming. All are out of the coldframe and into a special bed. If I am lucky, perhaps my other 79 seedlings started Oct 2010 will bloom. They are in a second coldframe. Some are LA seeds, other from TS. still others my own.

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 9, 2011
9:07 PM

Post #8801623

Some of my own crosses bloomed but got tossed since nothing special. They were dip crosses from common daylilies I bought years ago from Walmart before I saw what I was missing in tets. Bad genes since one grew 6" tall and its yellow flower opened half way.

Now have 57 beauties from Blue Ridge purchase in 2010 and 2011 with some blooming this year. Waiting for seed pods to mature. .

And, here is another tet seedling from 2009 sowing. Pod parent FORSYTHE WRINKLES AND CRINKLES, bloomed July 2011. Seeds also from maureenp00. Also a keeper for now. I like the slight ruffling. The height and size of bloom the same as the one above.

Jan and Natalie how are your seedling coming? How did hybridization go in this heat? My Stella de Oro decided to begin blooming again. All others are done. I still have tet pollen left over stored in those 1" plastic tubes I bought on LA. Will freeze them and get an early start crossing next year.

I must admit I am glad daylily season is over with. Got a bit hectic to beat bees to the blooms, not to mention early rising to beat the heat.

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

September 9, 2011
10:06 PM

Post #8801685

Blomma, don't you mean HIGHLAND PINCHED FINGERS? I don't know of any HIGHLAND PINCHED FRINGES.

You must be kidding about being glad the bloom season is over. Despite spending an average of 7 hours a day out in the garden from the beginning of April until the end of November, I dred winter.

Here is a seedling I started in a pot in April of 2010 and planted in the ground in late June. It is {(Seedling X Seedling) X RAPID EYE MOVEMENT}

This seedling has HIGHLAND PINCHED FINGERS in it's background, but is 3 generations away from it.

This message was edited Sep 10, 2011 12:10 AM

Thumbnail by Lotsalilys
Click the image for an enlarged view.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 10, 2011
1:43 AM

Post #8801787

LOL you may be right if you don't recognize the name. Thanks. It is what was written on the seed envelope or else how I read it. Your seedling is gorgeous .

Yes, I am glad summer is over. I may not think that way at -30F, and snow on the ground. However, it gives me a chance to do something else, like my other hobbies of sewing and jewerly making, etc. I also have all those seeds to germinate. Also a time to pour over Schreiner catalog and deciding what daylilies to order,etc.

HazelCrestMikeB

HazelCrestMikeB
Hazel Crest, IL
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
4:21 AM

Post #8801844

Nice sdlgs, Blomma and Lotsalilys. I thought I was the only one spending long hrs in the garden. LOL! Mike

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 10, 2011
8:33 AM

Post #8802131

Mike Thanks for the compliment.

Don't tell anyone, but we all sleep in the house and live in our gardens. How are your seedlings doing?
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
11:48 AM

Post #8802295

My seedlings are doing wonderful. I have about 50 of them, some from Seedsower, and the rest from LA purchases. 45 are planted in that seedling bed I made earlier this summer, the rest are planted all together in a large pot. I will try to get a photo of the bed this weekend and get it posted.

I just harvested some bee pods today. I had about twice as many bee pods, but over time, some are just rotting/ disappearing, whatever. I think if I am vigilant, I should have about a half dozen bee pod seeds (and an occasional attempt at my playing around with dabbing) that I may be able to collect seeds from this fall.

I managed to get about a dozen seeds from a Buttered Popcorn pod, and a couple from a poor looking cottage dip pod. I am not sure the dip ones are viable, I will let them air dry and then give them the smoosh test. Doesn't matter on that one anyways, since those cottage ones were very friendly toward the bees, and have more pods. I also harvested some seeds from the asparagus that some of my daylilies are sharing a bed with.

For the first time, my Stella is going to rebloom. Also, a new Maryotts that I just received midsummer, and which bloomed shortly after receiving it (yeah, I know I shouldn't let those newbies bloom) is going to rebloom- provided frost doesn't happen first.

The advantage about the growing season ending is that I can look forward to next year, and possibly get something done INSIDE the house...

HazelCrestMikeB

HazelCrestMikeB
Hazel Crest, IL
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
12:32 PM

Post #8802344

Jan if you need some seeds I have a LOT to share. Gave some to a couple of my coworkers. Shamefully my sdlgs are still in the little pots. Checked a couple and found them root bound. I am going to plant them this weekend along with the ones from cass and several that has been sitting in water for over two weeks. I am going to use the wire to protect them from the rabbits. Pics forth coming.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 10, 2011
1:00 PM

Post #8802399

[quote="philljm"]The advantage about the growing season ending is that I can look forward to next year, and possibly get something done INSIDE the house...[/quote]

Yep, that too. I have 58 seedlings in the new coldframe (pic below) Most should bloom next season along with those that didn't bloom this season from 2009. Some I got from Seedsower also, others from LA purchases. I also purchased some from Daves member TS. A few are my own.

Mike, and Jan you really need to get your seedlings out of the pot to give them a chance to become established before winter.

The seedling in the coldframe got a slight haircut. They would be taller without it. We have had some strong winds and trimming them makes them sturdier to withstand wind.

"I shouldn't let those newbies bloom", why. I can't wait another full year for them to bloom.

Lilly

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
1:01 PM

Post #8802400

Thanks Mike! I think I mis-spoke, I will have a half dozen bee pods from a variety of DL, not just a half dozen seeds.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
1:04 PM

Post #8802409

Lilly, no seedlings left in the cups, the last 5 were transplanted into a large pot, for lack of anyplace else to put them. And yes, they were rootbound. The other 45 are in the seedling bed, and most have been there for 2 months now.

I remember that you are into "haircuts' for your seedlings. I have chopped some of mine when they were inside, to keep them from the lamps. I think it's funny when you mention it - kinda like "what are you doing today?" -

"Giving my plants haircuts"

Funny visual in my mind, but I am weird like that ~Jan

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 10, 2011
4:06 PM

Post #8802652

LOL, LOL! Jan, you are funny in your " weirdness". I like that.

I am wondering how many iris and daylily seeds of each cultivar I want to plant. Hmmm...have room for in my already congested garden. I definitely will sow tet seeds before my common dip seeds. I didn't buy any seeds this year. I may, depending on how many tet pods will mature. I have noticed that some of the pods have only a few seeds, a few just 1. So different from iris pods. I wonder why.

hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
4:43 PM

Post #8802705

A lot of my tet pods this year had only 1 or 2 seeds. Very few had 5 or more.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 10, 2011
6:56 PM

Post #8802865

Does anyone know why the seed count is low? On the other hand, it may be for the best. I couldn't grow all to maturity anyway for lack of space.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
7:02 PM

Post #8802874

The only tet that has matured for me is Buttered Popcorn (so far, got a couple others coming) and there were a about a dozen nice seeds in it. My only dip (again, so far) only had 3 seeds-- but I have a lot more dip pods, than tet pods coming. ~j

HazelCrestMikeB

HazelCrestMikeB
Hazel Crest, IL
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2011
7:30 PM

Post #8802922

I got a lot of seeds from my tets. I did get two from my only Daring Deception pod. Sarah Hawes was awesome. I have enough seeds to give everyone in Wisconsin one. Yea right !

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 10, 2011
11:31 PM

Post #8803108

I am glad that I didn't sow all my purchased tet seeds last year. I have some left, stored in my fridge. So if I don't have enough tet seeds from my plants this year, no big deal. I will use up what I have from 2010. Most have been purchased. I didn't have room last year on my plant stand to grow them all.

janemarierose
Utica, NY
(Zone 4b)

September 11, 2011
1:21 PM

Post #8803778

Why do you like tet better than dip? or is it the other way around? Alot of squishy seeds, would that be the all the rains we just had?

jmr
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

September 12, 2011
5:18 AM

Post #8804684

No the rain doesn't make them soft, they are just not good seeds.

About seed counts, it will usually vary from cultivar to cultivar some are more fertile than others. I have had both Tet and Dip pods that were just full of seeds and others where you would only get a few. I think temperature and moisture at the time of pollination also make a difference. I get better pod sets when it is in the 70's to mid 80's and the ground is not dry. The time of the pollination might also make a difference since they all open at different times and are more receptive to pollen shortly after they first open (really an opinion), but for example pollinating nocturnals at 9pm works much better that 9am the next morning.
hostaluver84
Tomah, WI
(Zone 4a)

November 7, 2011
9:41 AM

Post #8880137

Jan - How did you seeds on the rocks turn out? I have some that I am trying like that now. I didn't have any luck planting them right away after soaking this year. Time for something new :o)
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

November 8, 2011
5:03 PM

Post #8882135

Actually I was happy with them. I had pretty good germination rates. I also found that by letting them sprout on rocks, that I was more patient with them, and allowed them to get a bit larger before planting them. I tended to get a bit impatient & planted the wet paper towel ones too soon, and then probably too deep, and I had less germination once I put them in potting soil.

I still have about 50 seedlings doing well outside. From 6 inches in height to over a foot tall. I will definitely use this method again in the spring. I found it easy to monitor, and simple to keep track of everything ~Jan

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

November 8, 2011
10:59 PM

Post #8882552

Jan, I was going to try the rock way but don't have any extra seeds to play with. I have at the moment 44 young seedlings already growing under lights. More coming that sprouted in paper towels. I plant them up as soon as I see the tiny root and plant shallow. They usually break soil within a few days. I started all end of September with 3 weeks in the fridge. I really feel safer doing it this way. I have some seeds coming from LA this month that I won. Now will stay out of LA.

Below is the first batch, including 2 with pure white leaves that I know won't make it since they can't produce chlorophyl (sp?). More seedlings on the other side of the stand.

This message was edited Nov 9, 2011 12:05 AM

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

November 9, 2011
5:08 AM

Post #8882663

Blomma, I have been tracking the parentage of albino seedlings. Who were the parents if you know them? I see TS on the pot tag.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

November 9, 2011
2:55 PM

Post #8883374

I had 4 albinos from the same cross this year - I will have to check back in my records and see if I can remember which cross it was. ~Jan

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

November 9, 2011
3:42 PM

Post #8883488

TS stands for Terry's Flower and Things. She is also a member of Daves and sells seeds.

The cross that produced the albino seedlings is Castle Double Serenity x red double seedling, according to the seed envelope. When I saw the albinos, I started the rest of the seeds.

I had one albino in 2009 that ofcourse died on its own. Shucks, I thought I had something special until someone on Daves dashed my hope with the truth.
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

November 9, 2011
4:41 PM

Post #8883629

Thanks. I have been searching for some common thread for instance STRAWBERRY CANDY will throw a lot of them but the albino gene has to be present in both parents. I don't think it is real common since I plant lots of seeds every year and only see a few but it comes up on the forums a lot.

Another thing no to get too excited about are variegated seedlings, they never seem to stay that way.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

November 24, 2011
9:13 PM

Post #8904569

The 2 albino seedling went to daylily heaven yesterday. Shucks!!
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

November 26, 2011
12:08 PM

Post #8906602

Bummer, but not unexpected

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

November 26, 2011
3:02 PM

Post #8906804

I expected it, but darn it all.
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

November 26, 2011
6:53 PM

Post #8907082

If you think that's disappointing one year I had 15 variegated seedlings show up. By the end of July they were all dark green and never showed any sign of variegation again. They were all from the same cross so I back crossed some of them and got all green nonvariegated plants.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

November 26, 2011
8:39 PM

Post #8907205

Boy that must have been disappointing to lose variegation in leaves. LOL!

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

November 30, 2011
5:26 PM

Post #8911890

Lotsalily,
Here is another albino that popped up. It is seeds I bought from Terry also. The cross is CASTLE DOUBLE SERENITY X RED DOUBLE SEEDLING (Noid)
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

December 2, 2011
3:47 AM

Post #8913409

I got 4 albino seedlings from a Tooth X Unknown cross. I did manage to get a couple of normal seedlings from that cross too, which are out in my seedling bed & doing fine ~Jan
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

December 2, 2011
5:39 AM

Post #8913474

That alnino gene seems to be pretty wide spread, more than I thought it was.
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

December 3, 2011
4:28 PM

Post #8915284

Do albinos only occur in tets???
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

December 3, 2011
5:53 PM

Post #8915376

It almost seems like it, every flower I have heard of producing them has been a Tet.
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

December 4, 2011
4:05 AM

Post #8915669

I kind of thought so too. I can't recall having any albino dips.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

December 10, 2011
7:17 PM

Post #8924486

Surpriningly, the albino is still alive and growing. Seem to have wider leaves than normal.
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

December 12, 2011
10:13 AM

Post #8926289

It will live for awhile but as soon as it uses all the nutrition from the seed it will die. I had a friend that tried large amounts of fertilizer but the seedling still didn't survive.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

December 12, 2011
5:28 PM

Post #8926910

Here are part of this year's seedlings growing under light.

Yea, I know that the albino seedling will die. Would be interesting to know what it causes it. Since it dies, its not a plant we can cross.

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

December 12, 2011
9:30 PM

Post #8927286

What kills it is the inability to make chlorophyll. Even some variegated plants (non daylilys) will not survive if there is not enough green in the leaves. Varigated Clivias are a perfect example there will be some that will be nearly all yellow like an albino but have some green in the leaves, a lot of those will die but some will get greener and survive. They also sunburn easier and that may play a role in the death of albino daylilys.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

December 12, 2011
10:12 PM

Post #8927326

thanks. I know they won't survive and why. That wasn't what I was wondering. Ex. if there are someone in the human family with bad eyesight, it will show up eventually. In my family it is only on the female side. We pass the gene on through breeding. An albino plant can't breed so how does albinism still prevail.

albino seedling taken a few days ago and still alive. Notice that the leaves are unusual wide.

This message was edited Dec 12, 2011 11:13 PM

Thumbnail by blomma
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

December 15, 2011
5:29 AM

Post #8930336

The parents carry the gene and every so often the genes line up correctly again and make more alninos. I had a cross of STRAWBERRY CANDY x seedling that produced nearly 50% albinos. This was before I began tracking these things so my records on this one are sketchy.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

December 15, 2011
7:23 PM

Post #8931292

Thanks, that makes sense.
bluegrassmom
Lewisburg, KY
(Zone 6a)

December 15, 2011
8:46 PM

Post #8931468

Just wondering do you plant your seed in separate cups or what? I have been using flower pots for a cross. Several seeds in each, but then if you have good germinations they don't stay long.
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

December 16, 2011
4:53 AM

Post #8931714

I use flower pots in the spring and direct sow mine outdoors in the pots. I have had good germination with dips, tets have been a bit more stubborn.
bluegrassmom
Lewisburg, KY
(Zone 6a)

December 16, 2011
6:24 AM

Post #8931789

Same here with the tets, I seem to be having problems after germination. Cats, spindly before time to plant outdoors. ATV one yr. My son didn't know where I had planted some babies, etc. Hopefully, I am getting some much need trial and error lessons.

blomma

blomma
Casper, WY
(Zone 4a)

December 16, 2011
3:59 PM

Post #8932482

I sow in moist kitchen paper towels and see no difference in germination time between tets and dips. Actually most of my seeds this year are tets, which I have pruchased on LA.

This message was edited Dec 16, 2011 9:47 PM
IndaShade
Kylertown, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 22, 2011
9:35 AM

Post #8939323

I have varied my planting method over the years. I used to plant all my seed in individual pots, but found that I was just wasting resources on those that inevitably don't germinate. So now I presprout them on paper towels in baggies before I plant them. Even so, I always lose a couple. Just the nature of the beast I guess.

I have never messed with peroxide or bleach or any of that other stuff.
Lotsalilys
Maple Heights, OH

December 22, 2011
11:10 AM

Post #8939412

I have never soaked a seed, I just plant them. I usually get germination in 7 to 14 days, but I've had some take up to 60. I once started some seeds that laid on my desk for more than a year just by plainting them in potting soil and keeping them damp. I had nearly 100% germination in 10 days.

LOL, I bought a bunch of seed on Ebay involving GOD SAVE THE QUEEN and some others from a lady in Michigan. I need more seed like I need more bills to pay.
philljm
Hustisford, WI
(Zone 5a)

December 24, 2011
5:16 PM

Post #8941880

Hahahaha Lotsa! ~Jan

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