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I don't know either but add the equation of the number of volcanic eruptions spewing their gases and dust into the atmosphere and the magnetic North shifting so far from true NORTH POLE and the solar flares that have have been happening. Hmmm I believe that Al Gore just needs to turn down the thermostat on his fossil fuel guzzling mansion in Tennessee and stop blowing so much hot air in Washington and the earth will shift back; eventually even if all that is left are a handful of roaches. In other words all the money on earth thrown against a proverbial brick wall and winding up in some off shore investing facility and making someone else super rich is all for naught.
Also attempting to control cow flatulence is really funny, when you think of the number of humans being embarrassed by their own extra loud reverberating um ah er Flatulence lol
Hey loved your article, does make a person think doesn't it
I do not believe in the carbondioxide hypothesis at all. There are cycles and natural variation, and in the past 400 000 years there have been five equally hot periods, none caused by man. You can read more here:
Thanks for the musings about the weather! Although I live in Texas now, I have a great fondness for the Boston area (lived in the D. C. area for 20 years and visited Bosten often) and, therefore, feel a "connection" with you. However, you mentioned that Texas rarely has snow. Texas is a really BIG state. It has four separate geographical regions. I live in the part of the state that juts up like a chimney. The top of that chimney is the panhandle, and lower part of the chimney is the south plains. The elevation in Lubbock is 3,200 + feet. Texas has snow in that chimney section of the state almost every winter, and sometimes even significant snow. It's the swampy, southern part of the state (called the costal plains area) that rarely has snow. (Don't feel badly; folk in the costal plains hardly think of Lubbock and the "chimney" area as part of Texas either!) Enjoyed your musings. Keep up the good work.
As I saw pictures of another blizzard through the Dakotas yesterday, I couldn't help thinking about Laura Ingalls Wilder and her "Long WInter". What had the Indian said? Every 7th year was stormy, and the worst was every 49th year? Maybe this is year 49!
Common misconception: The correct term for the green-house gas crisis is Global Climate Change NOT Global Warming. Scientists generally accept that Global Climate Change will mean more severe weather, both colder and warmer, due to disruption of global air circulation cycles.
Lisa
USDA Forest Service Southern Research Station - Southern Global Change Program Employee.
This entire article and thread are so incredibly disturbing and childish that I can barely respond. I am floored that the editors of Dave's Garden newsletter thought it appropriate to publish such a flip and unscientific essay that is based on such a shallow understanding of the earth's natural systems. We could really have benefitted by an article on how to deal with the increasingly difficult task of gardening caused by climate change instead. For example, in my area alone the date to set out tomato plants has been set *forward* two weeks because the last freeze is now later and spring weather more erratic - and we are having to create methods to irrigate through the increasingly dry and horrifically hot periods in summer. We all would love to have more information on how to deal with these new challenges. Shame on you Dave.
Each All serious scientists refer to this phenomenon as "Climate Change" and not global warming and there is no longer any credible disagreement that this climate shift is being caused by our own habits. I know that if people would do more than wonder about it and actually do the research they would be moved to change their habits. Climate change is not a laughing matter. We are endangering the ability for our childrens children to even live on this planet. Shame on you too Carrie for saying you want to know why we are having increases in the snow, hurricanes, mosquito borne illnesses, and increased moisture in some parts of the world *and publishing this article instead of trying to find out the answers*. You could have asked a number of other questions like why are other areas of the world suffering from desertification and specifically why in the US are many of the areas you mentioned failing to have enough rainfall in summer to even water the crops that have typically sustained our entire nation. I doubt the inhabitants of the Maldives, Lohochara, or even one of the approximate 40 islands that are being submerged in the Chesapeake bay would appreciate your overly simplistic analysis of excess moisture. For the first time, the previously frozen passage North of Canada is navigable for shipping. This is not good news, find out why. I strongly encourage you to read before you write and next time you wonder why things are happening you realize that the responsible way to respond is to look it up and give it serious thought instead of inventing hypotheses that have no basis in credible research. And to randbponder who responded above - as far as cow flatulation is concerned, if you even know that is a problem do you really not understand how the fact we are feeding cows food that their stomachs are not designed to handle is the cause of not only that but the huge increase in e-coli we now have to be so careful to avoid in our groceries? That topic is the proverbial tip of the iceberg on a serious discussion about animals, farming, pesticides, GMO crops, and methane, and deserves adults to examine the matter, not potty humor.
Please Dave, no more of this kind of article.
I got a good chuckle out of your article. It's nice to see some constructive humor on the site. Some folks don't seem to have an sense of humor or just got out of bed on the wrong side. All this global warming hype our alarmist Gore worshipers are spouting is just a ploy to make them richer, get more government control over the people and raise taxes on everyone. Our earth has run in warming and cooling cycles since the beginning of time, way before man started doing anything to the atmosphere.
You are correct that this is a very serious issue and one that needs to be examined closely.
However, Carrie has every right to ask her own questions, in her own way, and neither she nor Dave should be ashamed or should be expected to write and publish the type of article you should only expect to find in a major scientific journal.
I enjoyed this article. It has stimulated me, and probably many other readers, to ask more questions and to conduct more in-depth research.
As a college professor, were you a student in my class we would now be in my office having a serious discussion about the difference between civil academic discourse and bullying. Oh, and please edit your posts more carefully. Observing standard writing conventions will likely result in your thoughts and concerns being taken more seriously.
Ignorance and denial are not flattering in Dave's Garden authors and members. The world is rampant with myopic mega-consumers who feel a flippant attitude will make them feel more comfortable about their own hyperbole in the face of undeniable evidence. Climate change is not just a theory; it is fact. While it's human nature to feel safer holding on to traditional ideas instead of facing new, potentially frightening ones, it takes courage to ask difficult questions and accept the answers.
Ease up, jazzy1OKC. Bade's ideas were communicated clearly and effectively, they made several important points, and they're entitled to their opinion.
Carrie's quest for information is entirely proper (and I think shared by a majority of people!). The point many do not get is that temperatures fluctuate considerably from year to year (the previous winter was quite mild in the NE) but the trend (think long-term average) is getting warmer. Whether this is the start of an overall climate change triggered by our industrial emissions or the upward part of a global cyclic phenomenon which will reverse itself eventually (in decades, centuries, millenia?) is not yet certain, but the evidence seems clear that the trend is there, and should be taken seriously.
By the way Carrie, Florida was not exempt from the cooling trend. I spent two weeks there around New Years, and although there was no snow on the ground, there were only a few days where it was pleasant enough to walk the beaches!
Bade, you do have some telling points, but a less heated style of discussion might impart the information without arousing affront.
I find the upwelling venom more disturbing than climate change. Please moderate your language. As my mother used to say, "Never write anything that you wouldn't want to turn up to embarrass you later."
As for Climate Change, I find it hard to distinguish relevance in the short term vs. that in the long term, but when I see aerial photos showing the diminution of both the Greenland ice cap and he polar ice sheets I'm convinced. There's also the La Nina/Nino weather pattern affecting weather in the short term. (I'm so tired of reading in our local paper statements that since we are having lots of snow this winter it disproves the global warming theory!)
Greenhouse gases may or may not be the cause of change, but they are pollutants that we should not be inflicting on ourselves or each other. This fact seems to be overlooked in the sometimes virulent debate.
There endeth my pontification.
Jean - I was just about to say the same thing (la Nina) -- I heard last year that this year was going to be a wet one. Sometimes a pain and a drain on energy but glad for the long patches of cold and snow -- maybe will have impact on viruses.
Carrie Lamont has shown her ignorance once again, and Dave's Garden has once again catered to this type of absurdity. There are innumerable articles online as to why the earth is warming and why climate is changing at such a historically rapid rate. Scientists HAVE studied "eons ago" and have concluded that today's rates are so high because we are burning too many fossil fuels. Only the uneducated believe there is no cause for alarm, especially right-winged fanatatics. If gardeners are so concerned, which they, like everyone, should be, then they should convert their lawns to gardens and eliminate their gasoline lawnmower. Having said all that, I will return to the homepage and cancel my subscription to this hillbilly newsletter.
Disappointing to see that so many people still can't understand the distinction between "climate" and "weather."
Even more disappointing to see DG provide another wonderful opportunity for the know-nothings and right-wing Astroturf machine to spread more disinformation.
Like katpages, I'm unsubscribing; it's been a long time since I've gotten anything useful or even interesting off this "newsletter."
Wow, I sleep late on my husband's ONE DAY OFF and I wake up to a tempest! This was never intended to be a scientific treatise. I have my own opinions as to the answers to a lot of the questions I asked.
Inhaufsta, I don't think *I* called it Global Warming; I think of it as Global Climate Change if that helps at all.
Bade, I, a mere gardener-musician, am not equipped to provide the type of in-depth scientific information you are looking for. I merely wished to provoke some discussion about an important issue. If everyone has made up their mind already, no need to bother squabbling, right?
The next time you take to the air, get a window seat, and watch the earth shrink below. Do you really believe that those tiny creatures dashing around on the surface of that large ball are going to have that much control while it is spinning at 1040 mph, hurtling around the sun at 18.5 miles/second, in a solar system that is moving within its Milky Way galaxy at 155 miles/second, etc?
While we tiny creatures learn to utilize more sensible fuels, look to yourselves. We are what we eat, and we are killing ourselves with unnatural chemicals in all our food, not to mention the bio-engineered foods.
When you have lived long enough to remember at least three blizzards, then rethink the climate change theories.
Thanks, Lorra, but I thought we had three blizzards this winter!!! I guess it depends on the definition of a blizzard. We certainly had three major snowstorms!
There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but answers are nice too. I think it is clear, and logical, that we are effecting the atmosphere and environment. Of course there are natural cooling and warming cycles but, as I understand it they have never occurred anywhere near as quickly as things are changing now.
huntnlabs mention finding humor in the article. I can only assume that his "All this global warming hype our alarmist Gore worshipers are spouting is just a ploy to make them richer, get more government control over the people and raise taxes on everyone" is another bit of nonsensical humor. I love it.
I really wish I could convince myself that this climate change is not happening. Apparently many people have been able to. I heard on the radio recently that the number of people who say they "believe in global warming" has dropped over 25% in the past...decade or so, (I don't recall the specifics). Whatever the period of time mentioned was, it was alarming. EVEN IF IT IS NOT TRUE IT IS A WELL ESTABLISHED SCIENTIFIC FACT THAT CO2 IS A KILLER. That is why we have CO2 detectors in our homes. I try to minimize how much I add to the accumulation in the atmosphere, without making myself miserable.
A couple of problems have surfaced in the debate about Climate Change.
On the one hand you have the pro side seeming to blame everything on climate change, but not allowing any rebuttal to the religion. Also, there is a lack of confidence in the veracity of leaders of climate change. When and if cooler stations can be shut down and temperature stations placed in asphalt urban heat zones, then a crisis of confidence arises in the statistics.
On the contra side...there may indeed be some warming. Whether man caused or not is the question that cannot be answered with out agenda bias it seems. The pro side has poisoned the discussion by declaring the debate over.
The CFL lightbulb has followed a similar trail. We know best...you must use these things whether they give you headaches from the potentually harmful electrical magnetic field or not...doesn't matter either whether they work well in cold areas either or if the mercury is bad or if they flicker...we know best and let China make them.
Although I am labeled by DG as a 'garden humorist,' this article was NOT meant to be funny, merely to raise some important issues. We are to avoid discussing politics; that's part of the Acceptable Use Policy and part of what made writing this article so dicey!
Thanks for your comment, pintsrok.
And Indy; we cross-posted. Actually you got there first, I'm just a verrrrry slow typist.
I think that confusing C0 and C02 happens all the time. What's one little extra 0xygen type-0 among friends who are not chemists and such?
C02 is definitely a killer --- just ask any pulmonary physician who is trying to manage humans and not plants... all methods are exhausted to keep C02 within normal ranges in the blood stream of those who have lung disease.
Right you are on the detectors, Indy, my mistake. And we gardeners, of all people should know that plants absorb CO2 and give off oxygen. So a certain amount in the atmosphere is necessary for life on Earth (?). As I vaguely understand it our planet has a unique balance of many factors, like the moon keeping our planet wobbling just a little bit, which gives us our seasons, and the ratios of gases in our atmosphere etc. One could say, I suppose, that humankind and a diminishing ozone layer are all part of the natural change, but then again the same could be said for trying to minimize humans' effect on the climate...
I agree there was absolutely nothing wrong with the article. and oxygen is necessary for human life but not pure oxygen. carbon dioxide is used up by plant life, as a mater of fact plants alternate between carbon dioxide and oxygen in darkness and in light.
In the beginning GOD created the earth and noted it was good but there are those who don't believe god was capable of such a feat.
No apologies needed for Carrie's article. We are all tired of winter and it is cold.
YOU GO GIRL
plantsrck: Something a lot of folks might not actually know: increase the amount of available CO2 beyond what plants actually need, they grow faster, but they also grow WEAKER. Continue to increase the CO2 levels and they simply DIE, their normal systems of aspiration/respiration interrupted. One of the problems is not just that CO2 is a "killer", it's that releasing a large amount of carbon into the atmosphere causes a number of cascading effects in the environment, such as acidification in sea-water when it begins to settle into the oceans- this kills off corals and plankton, the bottom rungs of sea-life. Kill those "bottom-rungs" and the larger species (the ones we prey upon, for example) starve. Land-animals that depend on the oceans for food- polar bears, seals, walrus... HUMANS- also go hungry. One effect of many, including the warming trend Carrie mentions in her article of questions.
Questions are useful, even seemingly flippant ones, if they cause folks to think about the topics the questions raise. :-)
randbponder: sir, mentioning god is not germain to the discussion of human-caused Climate-Change- please recall that not everyone believes in the same deity as yourself, or even believes in one at all. Some subscribe to the belief that the Universe is a series of natural processes that do not necessarily require a deity to set in motion- natural processes that we ARE damaging, incidentally, in our reckless, unwise and greedy OVER-use of available resources. Yes, those resources are there to be used, but by ALL life, not just us. Perhaps, now that we are seeing the real results of our behaviour, we will hopefully do what we can to change it, so we can leave something for the next generations to come? :-)
For anyone else who cares: climate is NOT the same as weather. Weather is ephemeral, it's TEMPORARY, but is contingent upon climate. Climate is LONG-TERM: it affects weather and how that weather behaves and is built upon processes that we humans are only still learning to understand. Global Climate Change is just that: a change in how air and temperature is moving across the globe. For an example of current changes happening now, what was once temperate, is becoming Mediterranean (hot and dry in summer, cool and wet in winter), what was Mediterranean is becoming almost desert, (dry all the time, not necessarily hot- cool temperatures still occur, but without as much wet) and at a faster rate than predicted by the claims of climate scientists who are notorious for giving tentative and conservative assessments. Colder climates, such as the Arctic, are seeing glacier and ice-sheet melting- overall volume is decreasing, meaning what appears to be as much ice as before is actually thinner, and this means that species such as seal, walrus and polar-bear can't live on it. Polar-bear need thick, non-breaking ice-sheet in order to hunt- right now, the ice isn't thick enough, nor is it staying long enough for them to hunt effectively. They are starving slowly, and may be extinct by the end of this century because of it. Another effect of glacier-melt is the available water-sources for millions of humans is going to be threatened in areas like Chile, the Himalayas and here in California (we rely on the snow-cap and glaciers on the Sierra Nevada Mountains for much of our water).
Air-movement patterns are changing all over the globe, as are ocean currents. They are still there, but their former locations are SHIFTING, which can account for the odd weather that happens in one locality or another- such as water (or snow) falling where it normally wouldn't be and dry air hitting areas normally more moist. It seems to be a "domino-effect" series of issues: one thing goes out of balance, tripping the imbalance of another critical process, precipitating the extinction of an entire species, sending more species onto the brink because their food is gone, the slow trend to warmer overall temperatures over time is thawing the permafrost up North, releasing Methane (another Greenhouse gas), causing even more of a temperature shift... One process affects all processes that link to it. It's not just warming, but it's often presented that way because it's hopefully easier to understand than temperature changes in permafrost, ocean, and methane-release increasing the warming "blanket"-effect of the atmosphere and so on... It can be VERY hard to explain how so many things dovetail into each other, so "warming" gets the most attention because it is the lynch-pin that links to all of the other problems..
I'm not a climate-scientist, so there are probably errors and mistaken assumptions of my own in there, but there you have my own small understanding of at least one small part of the problem. I'll shut my big mouth, now. :-P
A very abbreviated history:
Dave started this site; another company bought out the site and the brand keeping Dave on; another company then bought out that company and in a dispute sacked Dave who went on to start another site. And the name Dave's Garden stayed with this site.
My! My! It has been a l-o-n-g winter.
I hope everyone knows Carrie has a masters degree in Music(a very mathmatical science.)
She creates music I've been fortunate enough to hear some of her music. She is also a very good gardener. Her article was meant to be on the light side.I injoyed it.
At the moment the verdict is out on Global Change.You know as in "A butterfly flapping his wings in South America will cause a thunder storm in Kansas." Unfortunately we humans have a brief lifespan. As Einstein said "The stupidity of us humans is universal."
Gardeners are hillbillies? You poor dear sweethearts.
I AM A HILLBILLY and proud of it.I can live off the land and survive.I have a bear for a neighbor. He is really a quite nice bear and neighbor.
Wish he'd stay out of my trees tho. I live on top of an Arkansas Hill. Zone 7 has been creeping up the mountain. But it may crawl back down again. Who Knows? I don't. Do you? I am also into quantum physics and Astronomy. Now there is the universe that is slow to change. Of course unless you live near a large blackhole.Then you would break down into bosons and other goodies as would everything else. LOL
There are doctors on DG. Vets, Computer experts, Business people, Management experts. So lighten up and smell the roses.Watch out for thorns tho. LOL
Don't let the screen door hit your backside on the way out. And watch out for the squeek in the hinges.
Dave was the computer genius that invisioned Daves Garden and made it what it is. He is a young man who lives in Jacksonville, Texas.With his lovely family.
We're a friendly helpful group of people who love every aspect of gardening. Some of you would be more at home at Gardenweb.They are the argumentative type.Poor dears.
By the way, Carrie is a lady in every sense of the word!
Have a good day,
Vickie
DG is one of the few places I visit on the web where significant cares and worries are banished. Is this also the case with you other DG'ers?
I've observed the spirit of this "place". It is defined by its people and yes bugs, birds and plants; to be an enlightening, helpful, educating one. You can provide your own adjectives. New things, new ideas, new arguments, new data are embraced and absorbed.
- There is no credible scientific disagreement - Global Warming alarmism - no longer subject to debate - Al Gore and those trying to capitalize on hysteria -
???????????
I think I'll have a coffee, go check out some Aroids and relax.
Carrie, i enjoy your articles very much and would like to say that some days we are teachers, other days we are students and that's a good thing. However, alot of the time we dont know which one we are.
Thank you, Cam. I think one can be both a teacher and student at once, don't you? And hold on by our fingernails while trying to figure out which one we are at this particular moment in time...
I was listening to the National Weather Service report(s) for the Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN region this morning, and it (they) included the number of "heating degree days" for the period starting last July. The number of "heating degree days" for the period is BELOW normal -- which means that, for this region, it has been WARMER than normal during the past year.
As for how it can snow more than normal while still being warmer than normal, it's called MORE MOISTURE IN THE ATMOSPHERE THAN NORMAL. More moisture means more precipitation, whether in the form of rain -- or snow.
p.s., if the Earth, the WHOLE Earth and not just parts of it, really is cooling -- why are the glaciers in both Alaska and South America, as well as the Arctic and Antarctic ice shelves, still melting more than normal every year?
I think everything you say agrees with my points about more moisture in the atmosphere due to incremental global warming. I'm just wondering about the cause. I don't think I tried to say the earth was cooling--at least I didn't mean to!
@carrielamont: I'm not "rabble", I'll have you know- I'm "riff-raff", with a bit of "rabble-rousing" on the side! LOL
I actually got a chuckle or two from your article, but it did leave one with the impression that you personally weren't sure about the whole Global Climate Change thing. *shrugs* It does seem to be a heated topic, if you'll pardon the pun. :-) Things that potentially affect our living-standards and maybe even frighten the heck out of us tend to be like that, though. We really don't like change, unless it's a new, shiny gadget that promises to make our lives easier- read: easier to be LAZY.
Anyway, it's the fast pace of the Climate Change that REALLY worries scientists- because, while changes like that HAVE happened in the past (another poster is correct on that), they always took thousands of years to occur. THIS, track-able, easily quantifiable, change has taken less than TWO HUNDRED. The science involved in that study is called paleoclimatology, by the way, and it's one of the most important disciplines scientists use to track how climate can shift over time. They see the changes, can map them using things like ice and soil cores, examining the fossil-record, doing chemical analyses of the many, many layers of deposits in soil, plant, sediment and stone to find how this planet's climate has changed over time, and what they're finding is disturbing. Our overall climate IS changing, it's doing so more rapidly than originally projected, and so far, the "smoking gun"... is US.
It is NOT "fear-mongering", as some have suggested, to say that we, as a species, need to change our habits, find better ways to fuel our civilization, be cleaner in how we utilize resources and be more efficient with what we do with our wastes. It is simply this: stop fouling our nests and then whining that it smells bad! It is a warning, hopefully in time to correct our bad treatment of the one single world we can currently live upon. It's not something to fear, it's a problem to SOLVE and work on fixing. There is incredible ingenuity out there, genius in so many interconnecting fields, that it seems beyond imagining that we cannot figure out something to move us away from being so damaging to the environment that sustains us.
Just some hopefully more positive thoughts on a touchy topic.
And, as to my being "knowledgeable" about the topic, naaaah. I'm just a polymathic nerd who likes to read biology/climate/anthropology/political science-stuff. Normally, in my real life, I'm an artist and clothing/costume designer. Throw math at me, and I'll look like any other moron out there. :-p
I welcome a little good-natured rabble-rousing as well as riff-raff! And yes, it is a "heated" topic! I, personally, tend to agree with you, but the tenor of the article was supposed to NEUTRAL NEUTRAL NEUTRAL, not taking sides, not upsetting anybody. As it turned out, I upset everybody! YES, we as a species need to change our habits. I don't even know that this is one that we CAN fix, though.
Carrielamont, that's what happens when you're a "fence sitter". You get attacked by both sides. At least if you take sides half of them are going to like you. LOL.
