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Shady Gardens: 2-5ft flowering perennials for medium-full shade in Zone 3?

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Janina5309
Calgary
Canada

May 22, 2011
11:49 AM

Post #8579635

I have monkshood in front of a fence and under a lilac tree. I need to remove it because it is fatal if consumed (even a very small amount) by my dog. I have other slightly toxic plants out here, but my dog is never out here without supervision. Just can't take the chance with the monkshood.

This fence is about 3.5 ft high. Plants in this area are in full shade up to about 2ft, which it then turns into medium shade, then at 3.5 ft it turns into part sun.

I have had a few creme de casis hollyhocks that did well here, since it grew fast enough to reach the sun by the time it was time to flower. But after two years it none of them came back. I hear this is common with hollyhock. And it never reseeded.

I have a really bad slug problem here so hostas are not an option. They never really touched the hollyhock or monkshood

Any other suggestions for medium to tall flowering, slug resistant perennials??

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 23, 2011
6:40 AM

Post #8581469

I thought hollyhocks are biennial but I could be wrong. You might want to check into Cimicifuga, Ligularia, Filipendula, Kirengeshoma or Thalictrum if you want some taller shade-lovers.
Noreaster
Maine
United States
(Zone 5b)

May 25, 2011
2:50 AM

Post #8585819

How about Aruncus?

I had to read about Monkshood after seeing this post- holy cow! I wouldn't feel at all safe with that around...kind of surprised they even sell it!

Eleven

Eleven
Royal Oak, MI
(Zone 6a)

May 25, 2011
6:22 AM

Post #8586041

Aruncus would probably do fine, as long as you're not looking for a showy plant. My Aruncus dioicus grow to over 4 feet in dry part shade.

I also like Actaea racemosa for a shorter shade perennial. They are maybe 18 inches tall, with flower stalks to about 24 inches, in my garden but take more water than the goat's beard. Very pretty when in bloom.

You could also consider something like Tricyrtis hirta 'Miyazaki' that grows to about 2 feet. They do well in shade and bloom in the autumn. The only negatives might be their small flowers and sprawling growth habit; they're a bit haphazard and, though less leggy than the species variety, are not exactly compact. I'm adding them to a woodland area of the yard close to a path so we can see their flowers better.

And if you can water a bit, there's nothing like a patch of ferns. I have some unidentified ones that reach about 30 inches tall and grow anywhere. They do survive dry shade but won't grow as large.
pastime
Waterman, IL
(Zone 5a)

May 27, 2011
5:34 AM

Post #8590286

Ligularia 'Rocket' does well in shade, but is a thirsty plant. I don't know if slugs like it or not. Japanese Painted Ferns are also shade loving and the silvery foliage is pretty. They aren't tall though. Heuchera 'Palace Purple' is shade loving also and a unique color. The foliage stays low, but the flower stems are upright, maybe 1'+ depending on the age of the plant. They also spread over time. I have some Miscanthus grass also in my shade garden. It does fairly well and has been there for many years. Maidenhair ferns are pretty and very delicate looking. Ferns will rock in the shade.

An established perennial nursery will have a shade garden which you can get lots of ideas from. Hope you find what you need.
paracelsus
Elmira, NY
(Zone 6a)

May 27, 2011
7:08 AM

Post #8590459

The native wild sunflowers are a good bet. I grow Helianthus maximilliani in shade and it is wonderful, tall and nice leaves. It has yellow daisy-like flowers that bees like, and goldfinches go nuts over the seeds. I grew it from seeds I got from Prairie Moon Native Nursery. Check out the range map--it will grow in zone 3 and can take up to 70% shade:

http://www.prairiemoon.com/seeds/wildflowers-forbs/helianthus-maximilianii-maximilians-sunflower/?cat=0&from_search=Y

They have other helianthus also. There is one, Helianthus divaricatus, that can grow in full shade and can take zone 3.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

June 7, 2011
4:55 PM

Post #8616256

Don't forget Astilbe...
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

June 14, 2011
5:22 PM

Post #8630675

You might want to try some of the taller tricyrtis, such as "Dark Beauty", which grows to about 3 ft and stays erect. Also japanese anemone - tomentosa robustissima grows to about 3 ft and also stays erect. Both are fall flowering.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

June 14, 2011
7:47 PM

Post #8631074

Ooops. Forgot the Chocolate Eupatorium!!!

"Chocolate Mist Flower" (Eupatorium rugosum)(White Snakeroot) has shiny, deep purple stems with chocolate leaves and white blooms late summer. It stands 4 tall and 3' wide. It is attractive to butterflies and bees and is deer resistant.

I have read sources which suggest it can take full sun, but I wouldn't recommend it!!! It likes moist, well-drained soil. I recommend morning sun. If you're in a cooler climate, it will probably take more sun than it does here in sunny NC.

A.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/38299
nutsaboutnature
Algonquin, IL
(Zone 5a)

June 17, 2011
6:59 PM

Post #8637425

Hi Janina5309 -
The link below for Bluestone Perennials Plant Finder allows you to put in the sun/shade requirements, zone, height, bloom-time and all sorts of other requirements. There's even a box to check if you want "long blooming" of 4 weeks or more.

I use it all the time as a resource to help me find plants for particular areas. There's no obligation to order anything.

Maybe it will help to give you some ideas. If the shade in that area varies at different heights, I would probably check plants for different amounts of shade.

http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b/bp/adv_search_mod.html
KaylyRed
Watertown, WI
(Zone 5a)

June 18, 2011
12:39 PM

Post #8638611

I've grown some tall perennial campanulas in full shade. They're not as showy flower-wise as they would be with more light, and they seem to be somewhat short-lived (although they can reseed pretty readily, so unless you're aggressively deadheading or heavily mulched, that shouldn't be a problem).

Campanula persicifolia 'Cereulea' is what I grow, but this is a similar mix of colors.

http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b/bp/CANGS.html

Adenophora is another thought, but that can be pretty aggressive from what I understand. I don't grow it, but I know some folks who consider it very weedy.
DonShirer
Westbrook, CT
(Zone 6a)

June 27, 2011
4:12 AM

Post #8657051

I'm late to this thread, but I have Cimicifuga and Aruncus growing in a shady spot and they vary with species between 4 and 6 ft tall. Giant bellflower (campanula lactiflora) or the taller lilies might work as well.
quiltjean
North Chelmsford, MA
(Zone 6b)

August 9, 2011
11:24 AM

Post #8746711

I have a lot of shade and have maidenhair ferns (have to lime them every so often). Japanese painted ferns, chelone (turtleheads) and variegated polygonatum along with the usual polemonium, dicentras, primulas, tricyrtis, heuchera, a white phlox paniculata that actually enjoys the shade, and even some double ditch lilies. There is an understory of tiarella on one side of the path and one of galium odoratum on the other. Suits me!

Note: Turtleheads are in the mint family so have crowded out many of my astilbe. Many of them are not aware that they will soon be moving to new quarters in my condo's shaded area.
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 11, 2012
10:17 AM

Post #8963442

[quote="paracelsus"] There is one, Helianthus divaricatus, that can grow in full shade and can take zone 3.[/quote]

I saw this plant in a zone 4 location in pretty heavy shade and it looked so good. However I have been unable to find this same plant at any nursery.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 11, 2012
11:22 AM

Post #8963507

OMG!

I forgot about this thread but have since found the spigelia marilandica is a woodland shade loving plant and one we should all covet:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/48891/

http://www.plantdelights.com/Spigelia-marilandica-Perennial-Indian-Pink/productinfo/2315

Edited to say - "O poo - prolly not good for Zone 3."

This message was edited Jan 11, 2012 2:23 PM

Thumbnail by AmandaEsq
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 11, 2012
1:19 PM

Post #8963670

Amanda - I tried for a Spigelia on my 2011 orders but out of stock. Thanks so much for reminding me!
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 11, 2012
2:46 PM

Post #8963775

I am about to order this Spigella from gardenimport.com i.e.

http://www.gardenimport.com/spblvl3.php?lvl=Spigella&nm=Spigella&ref=SP0600

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 11, 2012
2:49 PM

Post #8963781

Rouge - where does this ship from? You can order it for less from several places on the east coast. Not sure about shipping, though.

Hardy to Zone 5; I suppose you could winter it over in a container in Zone 3?

A.
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 11, 2012
2:51 PM

Post #8963786

Hi Amanda, sorry I should have pointed out that this is a Canada only mail order nursery. And as I am zone 5 I am hoping it will over winter for me.
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

January 12, 2012
3:42 AM

Post #8964423

I have 4-5 spigelias in various locations. I love them.
For me, they bloom a lot better with more light.
They bloom lightly in my woodland.
But I have one which in mostly full sun with just a little high shade which blooms great.
I still like them in a wooded setting, but don't expect the blooming to be very dense.

Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 12, 2012
6:47 AM

Post #8964609

I would guess with that flower color that there needn't be a ton of blooms to stand out in the shade, especially with most shade-lovers having paler flower colors. Are the colors as bright as various photos indicate?

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 12, 2012
8:48 AM

Post #8964704

Cindy - I haven't seen one in a long time, but I believe they are stunning and high-beam bright in the shade garden - hummingbird and butterfly magnet from what I understand. I aim to have one this year - I have found several suppliers cost ranges anywhere from $6 to $18 I suppose depending on size. For this kind of dazzler probably best to order early to ensure availability.

A.

p.s. Rouge - let us know how yours does this season.

p.p.s. Weerobin - Thanks for letting us know that it can adapt to various light conditions.

This message was edited Jan 12, 2012 11:50 AM
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 12, 2012
10:40 AM

Post #8964875

I'm gonna work on getting me one today! Hopefully, the IN nursery has one just for me. :)

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 12, 2012
10:51 AM

Post #8964884

I sure hope so Cindy - then you can send us all cuttings. :D
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 12, 2012
12:31 PM

Post #8964995

I was wondering how to propagate that one already. I'm one of those gardeners that wants one of everything. I used to try to be "good" and order in 3s or 5s (for that aesthetic harmony thing) but I'd always lose one or three, ending up with an even number anyway. So now I order one at a time and, at current prices, that's about all I can afford. :)
I did place an order this afternoon with Munchkin Nursery. Almost succumbed to a Bletilla which would have been "iffy" in my zone. Sigh... I did cave though on Phlox 'Manita' and Corydalis 'Berry Exciting' as well as the Spigelia. I was tempted by more like Epimediums (a weakness).
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

January 13, 2012
3:57 AM

Post #8965739

Uh oh, Cindy - you might need to reconsider that bletilla. Here's one from my yard last year.
It's a beauty (a cultivar called Kate).

And yes, the spigelia color is striking. The contrast between the red and yellow is great.

Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 13, 2012
4:33 AM

Post #8965760

[quote="AmandaEsq"]Cindy - I haven't seen one in a long time, but I believe they are stunning and high-beam bright in the shade garden

p.s. Rouge - let us know how yours does this season.[/quote]

With these latest posts I will order a couple of these Spigella (Indian Pink).

I have heard and read that "Lobelia cardinalis" can also tolerate successfully (lots of?) shade.

Any idea which can 'take' more shade?

postmandug

postmandug
Bardstown, KY
(Zone 6a)

January 13, 2012
6:29 AM

Post #8965847

Cindy, have you been to Munchkin to view Gene's garden?

Doug
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 13, 2012
7:02 AM

Post #8965883

Weerobin - yes, I reluctantly allowed common sense to override my zeal on the Bletilla (one of your earlier photos was urging me on). Munchkin had it rated as zone 5B which was slightly encouraging as I've seen it rated for zone 6. But even I was thinking it was a bit of a zonal stretch. :( And I'm not as attentive as I should be to protecting those zone-stretching plants.
rouge - I've tried Lobelia siphilitica and gerardii (not named varieties - both from seed) here but never cardinalis since a lot of the information I had read suggested it liked some moisture in the growing months but needed the crown kept dry during the winter (?). The others that I have grown were sited in full shade. The flower stalks did grow tall but the bloom wasn't that great and the stalks would either fall over or get blown over by wind and rain. I think they do need some sun to grow well. My clay soil probably didn't help either.
Doug - no, haven't had the chance to see Munchkin but would definitely like to. I do get Gene's monthly newsletters and I was thinking about the Adonis amurensis in the Jan. letter until I saw the price. :( I was surprised that he didn't have any Cimicifugas listed.

postmandug

postmandug
Bardstown, KY
(Zone 6a)

January 13, 2012
8:31 AM

Post #8966022

Cindy I think that's because the genus on those has been changed to Actaea.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 13, 2012
8:50 AM

Post #8966060

Rouge - I have no experience with the spigelia in my garden or in the wild. Last summer I planted 3 small rosettes of the Lobelia cardinalis where they will get morning sun, perhaps some high noon, but shade for the rest of the day. They are fairly dry right now so that helps me Cindy. I wanted to place them lower on this small rounded slope below the front porch near where the water runs thru, but I was afraid someone (?!) would think they were weeds and cut them down.

They are still small, but I hope this season they will thrive.

I have seen them in the wild, and they are breathtaking to come upon. It was in woods in a sloping stream bed with fairly loose canopy. I suppose there they received part shade or maybe was it part sun. Ha ha - I'm relatively new to shade gardening, but I agree that many perennials that bloom in shade don't tend to be dazzlers. Since I plant mostly natives I think I have more options.

I'm looking at Thalictrum/meadow rue. Anyone else tried that in shade/part shade?

This thread is getting long and someone may have posted that already. Maybe Cindy or someone near the top could edit their post to make a list. :D

A.

p.s. Cindy I see you have included the thalictrum up top.
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 13, 2012
11:42 AM

Post #8966271

[quote="AmandaEsq"]I'm looking at Thalictrum/meadow rue. Anyone else tried that in shade/part shade?[/quote]

I planted Thalictrum "Evening Star" in heavy shade last summer and it was my fault that it did not thrive as I kind of forgot about it and so I did not provide it with enough water. If it makes it through the winter I will be more attentive to it.

I had heard so many great reports re Meadow Rue "Splendide". I planted a couple of these plants this past September in what I imagine is part shade sun i.e. 2 to 4 hours of sun per diem. Again I hope they make it through this first winter.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 13, 2012
12:40 PM

Post #8966338

A friend is sending me some "black stockings"? Looks delicious! :)
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 13, 2012
2:55 PM

Post #8966494

I saw 'Black Stockings' at the Munchkin site. Looks very floriferous (sp?)! And somewhere in past week I saw a photo of 'Splendide' but can't remember where. I grow T. rochebrunianum 'Lavender Mist'. Love the little flowers on it. Have even propagated it from collected seed (I treated like columbine seed). It can put up with some dry neglected conditions but it gets about 3/4 shade. I do have a very neglected T. aquilegiafolium 'Apurpureum' that I got years ago from Bluestone. It consistently gets overrun by Pachysandra and I really must move it. It's in even drier and sunnier conditions and surprises me every year by coming back. This might be the year I finally move the poor thing. 'Course, it might croak by changing the location after all this time.
Amanda - have never seen wild Lobelia - it must be fantastic! From what I've read (and that was years ago), they don't want to be wet in the winter. There might be more up-to-date info on those.
Doug - of course they changed the name! (sarcasm here at my ignorance) I was thinking of one of the pink-flowered ones (not sure if Munchkin had any) but I might just have to wait. Thanks for keeping me up to date botanically. :)
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 13, 2012
4:07 PM

Post #8966564

[quote="CindyMzone5"]From what I've read (and that was years ago), they don't want to be wet in the winter. [/quote]

So many of my plants are describe as such. I so have my fingers crossed that they can make it through this winter.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 13, 2012
7:55 PM

Post #8966789

Cindy I have seed for the Actaea/Cimifuga/Bugbane if you're interested.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 14, 2012
7:12 AM

Post #8967161

Amanda - thanks for your offer. However, I have tried to grow some from seed gathered from my Actea/Cimicifuga racemosa (just the plain species) and didn't have any luck getting the seed to germinate. What variety are you growing? If I remember correctly, it needed either a long stratifying period or a double one but maybe there's a better technique.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 14, 2012
8:47 PM

Post #8968090

Hmmm. Haven't looked into it, just knew enough to gather the seed. I would have to look at the plant tag to see, but I think it's the native, not a cultivar. I guess if I get a mind to plant them and they sprout I could let you know later in the spring.

A.

p.s. I wasn't happy giving them part sun. The flower wands stretched waaaaay towards the sun. Should move them to deep deep shade. This season I MUST move my chocolate eupatorium to full shade. The part sun that they get is almost the noon sun and it scorches them. :/

p.p.s. Did I put chocolate eupatorium on this list yet? If not I have seed and they bloom from seed the first year.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 15, 2012
8:13 AM

Post #8968466

I was wondering yesterday (as I was putting a plastic milk jug in the recycle bin) if winter sowing would be appropriate for the Actea/Cimicifuga seed - that cycle of freeze/thaw maybe helping it along? I'd be interested to hear whether the chocolate variety from seed has that dark leaf color. Does the chocolate need some sun to bring out the leaf color? My plain variety flower wands lean every which way and they're in full (though not dense) shade, close to 6 ft tall. Sometimes I wonder if we have to choose which way we want some of the shade-lovers to lean towards sun since some will do that naturally. If I had to give the siting that much thought, I'd probably pull my hair out.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 15, 2012
5:59 PM

Post #8969148

Hi all. I haven't been on here for quite a while and see that you're all yapping away again about plants that I'm interested in.

I've been trying cimicifugas and thalictrums without much success - in fact 3 of 4 cimicifugas that I planted in the shade up and died very quickly. Only one remains that continued to look healthy, and I sure hope it returns after winter. I have one thalictrum that overwintered last year, but didn't grow much this past summer and never flowered. Another one I'm not sure if it survived. I could sure use some tips on how to grow these. I did grow a whole lot of thalictrum delavayi (I think) from seed last winter and have them in a seedling bed, but still very small. And I'm trying a few different thalictrums and cimicifugas from seed this winter. I read to give the cimicifugas 6 weeks of warm before the cold and that it might take 2 seasons of cycles before they germinate, but what the hell - they're not always right.

I've moved on to trying filipendula as tall shade plant. I traded this past summer for a couple of unnamed ones, but was afraid to put them in my deeper shade problem areas. So far so good, but they haven't flowered yet and I hope they make it through their first winter. I also have a bunch of sprouts in my filipendula flore pleno jug that I started inside. I think it's supposed to be a dwarf variety though..

Cindy, lobelia siphilitica is like a weed in my yard and can tolerate shade, but too much shade and they'll lean and grow horizontally. I have them mostly in a somewhat shady area, and lobelia "Monet Moment" is surviving there as well, but can get floppy, so I guess it wants more sun. I got a bit of a red lobelia from a friend this summer, so too soon to tell how it'll do in the same area.

I had good success with a martagon lily that I planted in a shady area a couple of years ago, so I bought a few more varieties and planted the bulbs this fall. And I'm still looking for a few more tall shade plants, so please keep the ideas coming!

Gotta go cause Masterpiece Theatre's coming on in a few minutes.

Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

January 16, 2012
3:21 AM

Post #8969491

I grow thalictrum aquilegifolium in part sun situation and it does beautifully. It's ~3ft tall.
I have lots of other thalictrums in the woods which are much smaller - less than a foot tall generally,
including thalictrum ichangense Evening Star as mentioned above.
But for some reason, I haven't had luck with Black Stockings yet.
I planted another one last year - we'll see if it comes back this year.


Here's a picture of aquilegifolium.

Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 16, 2012
7:44 AM

Post #8969765

I was sooo tempted by martagon lilies last week but "assumed" that they'd just end up leaning or getting blown over.
I haven't had much luck with Filipendulas - have killed it 3 times. 'Kahome', 'Flore Plena' - didn't survive the first year. I think I wasn't attentive enough to get them established well. Is F. hexapetala synonymous for F. vulgaris? I do like the airy demeanor of the Thalictrum flower stems - they don't seem to get blown over like a lot of other tall ones.
I'm curious to see the change (if any) in the quality of light reaching into my back gardens. We had two large oaks in the front taken down late last summer. I'm hoping for more light in the afternoons, perhaps helping those tall beauties that are light-challenged. I did grow some L. siphilitica from your seed, Sharon, and hoping for a little more light for them.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 16, 2012
4:30 PM

Post #8970453

I like that thalictrum aquilegifolium, Weerobin - nice and airy. I don't know what kind mine is, and it has yet to flower for me. Is that pretty maroon that's inbetween aquilegia?

Cindy, sorry to hear about your filipendulas. I'm getting fed up with my string of bad luck with the cimicifugas and thalictrums. I certainly hope for better luck with the filipendulas. I planted some Joe Pye weed that I started from seed a couple of years ago. It did well and flowered last summer, but I thought it was ugly and looked like a weed, so I pulled it out.
My martagon is in quite a shady area, but stayed upright and didn't lean at all. I was amazed. The only thing is that the lily beetles love them, so you have to be vigilant. I intend to get rid of quite a few of my other lilies - mostly the asiatics - this year, as I can't keep after the lily beetles well with the number of lilies I have. I hate to, because I love them, but the least loved will go.
I'm jealous of your more sun. The woman who owns the lot behind my house, which is full of invasive species that come into my yard, as well as weed trees that overhang my yard (and she will not let my tree pruner onto her property to prune the overhang, and I have to climb over the fence to pull back the ivy and pull out the garlic mustard... as she refuses to do a thing to tend the property - anyway what I wanted to say is that I keep hoping that a few of her trees will blow down in a storm, because that's the only way that I'll get any more light, instead of less and less.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 16, 2012
11:46 PM

Post #8970807

Mmmm! Thanks for the pretty pic, Weerobin.

Cindy - I plucked the seed from a plant grown in a container in complete shade in Framingham MA. Perenniallyme may know - the New England Wildflower Society. I've read mixed accounts on this plant. Of course, where they are in my yard they get little morning sun and no afternoon sun, but straight up full blast 11 a.m. - 2p.m. mid-day blare. They've been there since I grew them from seed in 2009, and I've sworn to move them every year since. They do have the gorgeous purple/chocolate brown coloring, but those receiving the most sun tend to fade in the sun/heat to a brownish yellow. They are prolific bloomers and have grown to at least 5' even under the adverse conditions.

I have plenty of seed if anyone wants to send a SASE. Let me know.

While on an afternoon walk in the blue ridge mountains yesterday on my BF's mother's property I plucked seed pods of some familiar friends and a few not so familiar. One in particular looks like a vervain, but it was in an area where it would receive only a little sun. Natives can tolerate a broader range of conditions, methinks. This was on the edge of a woodland.

Anyway - this IS a great thread, and I'm glad I stumbled across it. :)

A.
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

January 17, 2012
3:27 AM

Post #8970891

Perennially, the purple flowering plant is columbine Black Barlow.
I'm not sure she's so pretty up close,
but she flowers densely enough to make a nice dark foil for lighter colored neighbors.
Here she is...

Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Eleven

Eleven
Royal Oak, MI
(Zone 6a)

January 17, 2012
4:50 AM

Post #8970956

I was able to find a couple small Spigelia marilandica at local nurseries this summer. The squirrels ate the first one, so I'm hoping the second survives the winter. I planted it in dappled shade on the edge of an almost clearing beneath old oak trees. Will let everyone know if and how it blooms this year!

pereniallyme, I also have several Thalictrum. Believe it or not, but they do better when I DON'T try to take care of them or move them into planned beds =( My Thalictrum rochebrunianum died back after being moved from rocky sun to good soil in part shade.Thalictrum flavum subsp. glaucum was already in that spot and growing okay, but the blooms aren't that exciting. The Thalictrum dioicum do great when left alone among the small trees beneath the oaks. I moved them to a part shade border and lost a few.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 17, 2012
7:19 AM

Post #8971142

Amanda - re: your chocolate seeds - are the Eupatoriums or Thalictrum or ? I've lost track in all of this great discussion of various plants! :) I'm familiar with the New England Wildflower group. Have a propagation book.
perenially - I don't think I'm familiar with the lily beetle but I don't grow as many as you do. I must admit to being the source of some rampant plants here (ivy and Lamium 'Herman's Pride') but my neighbors haven't complained. We have a little unspoken give and take here - one neighbor's Pachysandra strays into one of my beds and the other neighbor's poison ivy seems to invade the other side of my backyard. I do try to pull the stuff back through the chain link fence. I may surrender to the Martagon yet.
Eleven - I don't have a lot of "real" nurseries locally but am drooling over the opportunity to explore some in MI since DD moved to Holland. I wonder if sometimes plants do better in uncultivated ground, maybe making them stronger and better? Not that I'm trying to bestow human characteristics on to plants.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 17, 2012
8:52 AM

Post #8971281

Cindy this is the Eupatorium. I don't have any thalictrum. Yet. :D
dawnsharon2001
New York, NY
(Zone 7a)

January 17, 2012
10:04 AM

Post #8971381

Thalictrum 'Black Stockings' and a couple of other shades do well for me in shade, growing 4'-5' tall (need support to stay upright when the flowers come out) with pretty aquilegifolium foliage. 'Black Stockings' blooms white or palest lavender for me; the other two are lavender and deeper lilac with green "stockings". They've given me seedlings to work with after I assisted them, but it took a while.

Filipendula hexapetala is synonymous with F. vulgaris, but the white double-flowered F. hexapetala 'flore plena' offered by Bluestone Perennials is actually F. ulmaria 'flore plena', which has big creamy-white flower heads on 2-3' stalks, tallish foliage (2-3'), and is wonderfully hard to get rid of in sun or part shade once established.

However, the plant I wanted was F. vulgaris (hexapetala) 'flore plenum', which is about half the height and breadth of ulmaria and has pure white corymbs of flowerets arranged in a spiral pattern, like forget-me-not (Myosotis scorpoides).

To compare and contrast, see Lazy S's Farm Nursery's web page for perennials beginning with F: Perennials Starting with F, scroll down to Filipendula and keep going to the end of the many listings.

F. rubra 'Kahome' loves nothing more than to evaporate whenever my soil dries out, though it's fine with being drowned in summer rain at the bottom of my garden. Wet soil that sometimes dries out completely is a pain, and perhaps the full sun is contributing to Kahome's demise. F. ulmaria 'flore plena' laughs at sun in wet or dry soil and keeps overrunning 'Kahome'. Last fall I gave up and moved Kahome to shade. I also transplanted one of the Thalictrum seedlings to Kahome's former home. Let's see if it'll put up with the sun and hold its own against the thuggish F. ulmaria. The only other perennial that holds out there is Siberian iris, unless you count the ground ivy and cleavers.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 17, 2012
12:25 PM

Post #8971543

Amanda, I do know the Garden in the Woods in Framingham, but haven't been there in quite a while. Thanks for reminding me.

Weerobin, I would call your black barlow pretty up close, but then I'm fond of aquilegias of all sorts, just not the self-crosses that occasionally pop up in my garden that are very old underwear off-white.

Eleven, I haven't moved my thalictrums. They just don't seem to like their conditions much, but I'm going to keep trying for a while. I've planted seeds of rochebrunianum and black stockings in WS containers and am keeping them warm for a month before they go out in the cold. I do hope I get some germination, and if I do, I'll probably try them in a slightly sunnier place than the others and see if they do better.

dawnsharon, I have recent sprouts of something that was traded to me as filipendula vulgaris flore pleno/multiplex. Do you think this the one that you describe as 2-3' and wonderfully hard to get rid of? This germinated for me warm, though was supposed to need cold after warm to germinate.

Thinking of seeds, I'm reminded that I have a bunch I collected this year that are just hanging around, as I stopped doing the piggy swap. If any of you shady folks are interested, please send me a dmail with your address. Here's the shade lovers and a few others:
(p.s. not sure what will come true except likely the tricyrtis, which are both species and bloom at slightly different times)

tricyrtis puberula
tricyrtis latifolia
japanese anemone:
whirlwind (a great double white)
kriemhilde (a great double bright pink)
pretty lady diana (a new dwarf single light pink) - not many
pretty lady alice (a new dwarf double bright pink)
anemone sylvestris
aquilegia mix - many kinds
aquilegia "Clementine salmon rose"
lilium pumilum (red-orange)
lilium cernuum
gentiana clausa
gentiana dahurica


CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 18, 2012
7:43 AM

Post #8972648

All of these seed offers are very tempting but I need to do some major remedial work on a large potential bed this year - getting rid of Campanula rapunculoides - to make room for far-more-desirables. The chocolate Eupatorium would be a star there but I'll have to wait on it.
dawnsharon - thanks for explaining all of the differences between the Filipendulas! Sometimes the variety names are a little confusing.
dawnsharon2001
New York, NY
(Zone 7a)

January 24, 2012
10:26 PM

Post #8981394

F. vulgaris flore pleno or multiplex *should* be the smaller one, but you won't really know till it flowers. It's one thing when the names are confusing to buyers, but once the growers and sellers are confused, only the plant knows what it is.

I'm just about to try winter sowing for the first time, mostly using leftover seed I didn't get to plant, in hopes of buying less this year. Have you sprouted Japanese anemones before? Will they bloom first or second year?

I miss the Garden in the Woods like anything. It was a spring ritual -- at least twice each spring, if at all possible. I still have Phlox divaricata "Blue Moon" from them, with petals as broad as a garden phlox. It's easier to find these days, but I wonder from the pictures I've seen whether the flower form is still as good.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 25, 2012
6:53 AM

Post #8981618

I've not had luck with Anemones. You might want to check out the winter sowing forum (I'm sure you have). I think I have 'Blue Moon' on my "want" list along with a hundred other things. This year, 'Manita' made the cut. :)
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 25, 2012
10:00 AM

Post #8981828

And 'speaking' of Anemones. This award winner "Wild Swan" looks and reads spectacularly:

http://mygarden.rhs.org.uk/blogs/graham_rice/archive/2011/05/27/anemone-wild-swan-2011-chelsea-new-plant-of-the-year.aspx

(Note the very long bloom period)
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 25, 2012
12:41 PM

Post #8981982

That is one beautiful Anemone! Wonder if it's available in No American yet. Any evidence on possible "running" (spreading) as I had read in one blog?
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

January 25, 2012
12:47 PM

Post #8981987

[quote="CindyMzone5"]That is one beautiful Anemone! Wonder if it's available in No American yet. [/quote]

It will not be in NAmerica until 2013 :(.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

January 26, 2012
6:55 AM

Post #8982735

I bet a lot of us will be searching for it next year. :)
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

January 27, 2012
3:49 PM

Post #8984609

dawnsharon, I believe I sprouted some japanese anemones by wintersowing (maybe a warm period first, but I don't remember), and think I may have had a few sprout warm, but I can't find it in my notes. I believe that my anemone tomentosa robustissima has seeded itself outside, but I could be wrong, as that one spreads a lot underground. It's certainly far more robustissima than the others. This year I'm trying "whirlwind" from seed. I have it in a WS jug and will keep it inside under lights for a month. If it doesn't start sprouting, the jug will go outside for the rest of the winter. I'll let you know what happens, if I remember. I know I've started other types of anemones by wintersowing. Anyway, I don't think the japanese anemones flowered til the 2nd year.
dawnsharon2001
New York, NY
(Zone 7a)

February 9, 2012
5:35 PM

Post #9000974

Thanks, perenniallyme! I'm OK with waiting a year if I can get good strong plants by this winter. I keep ordering little starts of them, then leaving them to languish on my front porch until they dry out or drown in rainwater. Sometimes I plant them while they've still got some green leaves, but they get outcompeted by my other shade plants and weeds (ground ivy, Glechoma, wrapping up my borders like a spider). A full-sized Japanese anemone would be big enough to hold its own.

How is the Arnold Arboretum doing?
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

February 10, 2012
4:18 PM

Post #9002232

Hmmm, I haven't been to the arboretum for a while.

Japanese anemones don't like transplanting (they have a sort of tap root), but will survive with lots of water for a while,( til they stop looking wilty). After they're established they need very little care.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 10, 2012
4:51 PM

Post #9002258

Hi Perennial,

Yes, japanese anemones can be tricky, but I actually managed to get several clumps by looking carefully at how they are clustered and digging deeply at the edge of the clump. I had no choice, because I was moving, had tons of Honorine Jobert at my old house, and they are incredibly expensive. I had started with 4 plants in 1998 and they spread delightfully across the front of my house. And wow, you are right, once established they need very little care. My advantage was that I had so many. This shot is of what were originally two plants. They are mirrored on the other side. A total of 4.

I also managed to get a whirbelwind after failing the first time. Oddly enough, the only one I couldn't get was Robustissima, which appeared in my yard - I never planted it. And I could not successfully transplant it.

Try to find the edge of a clump, where plants are clustered together. It seemed easier to get them out there, in a cluster, and replant them.

Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Click an image for an enlarged view.

perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

February 13, 2012
8:39 AM

Post #9005096

Lovely, Donna. I tried Honorine Jobert, I think, but it died on me. I've tried lots of japanese anemones and my favorites are Kriemhilde (bright pink double) and Whirlwind (white double). I found a couple of new dwarf varieties last fall that I like a lot - Pretty Lady Diana and Pretty Lady Emily. One looks like a dwarf robustissima - light pink, and the other is a double brighter pink. Can't remember which is which right now. Ones I wouldn't bother with are Prince Henry (unless you can't find Kriemhilde), and Bodnant Burgundy, which I have thought several times was dead and has barely grown in several years. And tomentosa robustissima is best for people with large spaces to fill fast. I'm always digging them out, as they take over.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 13, 2012
9:45 AM

Post #9005155

Isn't it weird what works and what doesn't? I have to keep beating Honorine back. I grow her with pushy plants and she tends to move into any space. Robustissima must be tough becuase it just appeared in my yard. And it placed itself beautifully. Right in the middle of the bed. I have to keep tearing it out. Pic 1

What's really funny is that I ordered cammasia quamash and was sent ornigothalem nutans - a very pushy plant. But lovely. I've spread it to FOUR places. And they tend to bully my thalictrum, which I have to keep digging up and moving around. Pic 2

But what a beautiful combo! Pic 3

Poor thalictrum ! Pic 4

Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Click an image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

February 13, 2012
2:28 PM

Post #9005479

Nice combos there, Donna. Especially nice when the other plants aren't in bloom.
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2012
7:00 AM

Post #9006185

Here is my "September Charm". It was planted in the fall 2010 so last summer was its first full growing season.

Thumbnail by rouge21
Click the image for an enlarged view.

DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 14, 2012
7:36 AM

Post #9006244

That is really beautiful.

This message was edited Feb 14, 2012 12:33 PM
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2012
9:04 AM

Post #9006349

Thanks Donna. I love everything about this flower.

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 14, 2012
10:31 AM

Post #9006451

Oooo - I love the 'September charm!' How pretty. :)
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 14, 2012
10:36 AM

Post #9006458

I have been looking for a pink anemone to join Honorine and Wirbelwind. It's confusing, because there are so many pink ones. But I think that September Charm is going to be it. Thank you rouge for drawing my attention to such a lovely flower.
lindypuddin
stony mountain, MB
(Zone 3a)

March 7, 2012
6:46 AM

Post #9033107

hi from manitoba canada zone 3a... i have a north-facing planter running along the back
of my house, unfortunately the only shade i have.
i seed columbine each year and pop them in any bare spots, but the star of the show is
ligularia rocket, the sun does peek around the corner in late afternoon, and it wilts where
the sun does touch it but it recovers quickly...LAhybrid lilies seem to do really well too

Thumbnail by lindypuddin
Click the image for an enlarged view.

DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 7, 2012
7:10 AM

Post #9033140

Wow, that's really beautiful, and it pops against your house. I have noticed that many people with white houses seem confused about what to do with color. Not only are the colors great, but the shapes and forms. I have only recently discover red lilies (yes, LA's are great). The ligularia rocket is great. How many do you have there? (Stealing idea).

Donna
lindypuddin
stony mountain, MB
(Zone 3a)

March 7, 2012
7:46 AM

Post #9033175

thanks donna...during the long winter months i read like crazy !
this was an empty lot in 2008, a blank slate to work with...
and i find burgandy looks great against the pale yellow siding...lots of pots of purple
fountain grass, and ninebarks summer wine in the front,
and my shade is filled with palace purple coralbells, hosta blue ivory and the one rocket

Thumbnail by lindypuddin   Thumbnail by lindypuddin   Thumbnail by lindypuddin
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lindypuddin
stony mountain, MB
(Zone 3a)

March 7, 2012
8:25 AM

Post #9033211

hi janina ! i've read through the whole thread now...and see some great suggestions...
calgary is a tough climate...warm chinooks often make it over the mountains and then
it seems like spring has arrived ! here on the prairies we're a slow even thaw but occasionally are surprised with a late frost. one beautiful plant i have seen is native meadow rue. it grows at least 4 feet.. and has a beautiful airy look to it. it is in my first
pic. closest to the railing. i had it tied, and staked as it had finished flowering.
for inspiration i often visit parks and the universities where there are many beds in various locations...the grounds keepers are usually more than happy to answer questions, and taking pics is not a problem. some of the hugest hostas i've seen were at the u of m. remember to keep some paper and a pen in your bag !! best of luck L
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 7, 2012
9:33 AM

Post #9033276

Lovely, really lovely. Your seasonal colors move from cool to hot. Very well done. I love good design.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 7, 2012
11:32 AM

Post #9033407

Beautiful color combinations!

AmandaEsq

AmandaEsq
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

March 7, 2012
12:36 PM

Post #9033458

No kidding! I love the dark foliage with the gay colors. :)
lindypuddin
stony mountain, MB
(Zone 3a)

March 7, 2012
1:34 PM

Post #9033534

thanks so much for the positive comments...it's taken many years to figure things out !
and for every one plant that survived probably three went in the compost ! i only wish i had a forum like this years ago, nothing like plain old-fasioned good advice to help along
the way...

Thumbnail by lindypuddin
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Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

March 8, 2012
3:24 AM

Post #9034221

Wow, a ligularia on steroids. What do you feed that thing??
Mine cranks out a bloom or two, but yours has dozens!!
I'm having a serious case of ligularia-envy...
lindypuddin
stony mountain, MB
(Zone 3a)

March 8, 2012
6:14 AM

Post #9034379

'morning' weerobin !
this planter got all new soil appr. 2.5 feet deep with a deep gravel base 3 years ago.
from what i've read about ligularia they are a shady moist plant...when i planted it, i added a wheelbarrow load of peat, and never let it dry out..
this planter is stuffed with plants [i hate pulling weeds] and so i fertilize with all-purpose
20-20-20 first thing in the spring...top up with some fresh 3-way mix soil, fertilize again
once the plants are appr. a foot tall, and again late summer so they have enough food to
store for winter. the ligularia is mulched with leaves from the lawn mower in the fall..
it it has bloomed like crazy the last 2 years...i do worry that it may bloom it's self to death !! there is a new smaller version of the rocket available now, as well there is the variety 'othello' that looks pretty cool with round leaves.. the blooms of this plant attract
many insects, including bees, so i would advise to keep away froms areas with kids !
cheers, L

Thumbnail by lindypuddin
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quiltjean
North Chelmsford, MA
(Zone 6b)

June 11, 2012
6:09 AM

Post #9160228

Oh! I forgot Canada lilies. If you don't have the red lily beetle, that is. Mine grow in shade, are 4 - 5 feet tall, and their little pagoda roofs are picturesque in contrast to the shade.
rouge21

(Zone 5b)

June 26, 2012
1:30 PM

Post #9182245

[quote="rouge21"]

I saw this plant in a zone 4 location in pretty heavy shade and it looked so good. However I have been unable to find this same plant at any nursery.

[/quote]

I saw similarly and just like you I have never seen it at a nursery.

rouge21

(Zone 5b)

June 26, 2012
4:13 PM

Post #9182459

[quote="lindypuddin"]it it has bloomed like crazy the last 2 years...i do worry that it may bloom it's self to death !![/quote]

I am curious lindy as to how long this Ligularia of yours does continue blooming?


[quote="lindypuddin"]
there is a new smaller version of the rocket available now, as well there is the variety 'othello' that looks pretty cool with round leaves.[/quote]

I picked up a couple of a new smaller variety known as "Bottle Rocket".

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