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Water Gardens: Catching Koi

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BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 20, 2011
6:18 PM

Post #8643411

I am moving thursday and want to take some koi with me. Buyers said it was ok. I am getting very frustrated as I have only been able to catch 3 in 3 days. Of course draining the pond would be the easist way, but no time for that. Any suggestions would be appreciated. They see the net and scram...little buggers. Of course the 3 I have caught are not ones I had planned to take but they are coming anyway after this work out!!
BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 20, 2011
7:05 PM

Post #8643501

I just went outside to check on my catches and the one we just caught today got out of the holding tank. I had a lid on the container but it was propped up a bit to make room for the filter. I found him in my croc shoe that was close by. He must have flopped into it. Placed him back in the tank right away. He looks a bit dazed and confused. Hope he will be ok. The lid is now weighted down.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 21, 2011
5:23 AM

Post #8644094

I used one of the big "bird nets" that you can buy. I got the cheapest one possible ( I think at Dollar General or WalMart) Put some heavy lead sinkers on one side, so that edge would sink to the bottom, and had a friend walk along one side, me on the other. We just moved all of them to one end of the pond, so I could hand scoop them out of a very small spot.
realsis

June 21, 2011
8:22 AM

Post #8644453

hi. i recently moved myself and caught ALL my koi, goldfish, and shumbukins! i have a 2250 gallon pond. i drained the water to the bare minimum then my husband actually GOT INSIDE the pond and i was waiting on the outside of the pond with luggers to carry the fish in. He would catch them with the net then hand them over to me to transfer into the buckets. please make sure the buckets have lids because the koi WILL jump. also note that the oxygen is very limited in the luggers so the move must be as FAST as possiable! i supplied extra oxygen until it was time to drive to my new location. after moving its best to have SPECIAL POND salt avaiable and lightly salt the pond. this helps ease the stress the fish are under. i moved 30 minutes away from my old location and my fish thank God all made it! make sure and have there new pond ready and waiting for them. this does take help so dont try to catch them alone. its best to work with someone and get it all done at once. good luck !
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 21, 2011
11:41 AM

Post #8644895

Beahive

DH says the best way is to lure them into your shelf with food, forcing them into the shallows with no place to go. I know he likes to come in quickly from behind with the net. Although koi look like they glide gracefully, they can be very fast. When removing 50-60 baby koi each fall, we would have to bring the waterlevels down and then get into the pond with them (thank God we no longer have to deal with that!)

Realsis is correct in that the oxygen in a transport tub is going to be used very quickly. Not only are you putting a large amount of fish in a small space, but they are breathing faster because they are scared and they are also giving off more waste because they are scared.

DH and I have decided when we move, which is not for a number of years yet, we will take most of our koi as well. We felt we should have some type of pump running in the transport tub so that we don't run into problems with oxygen crashes.

Good luck and please let us know what you do and how it goes when you have finally settled into your new home.
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 21, 2011
7:23 PM

Post #8645868

We are having our pond reworked due to rock that is slipping. I would prefer to take my koi and goldfish out also. I have an 8' x 3' x 18" kids wading pool. I bought seven koi this year and put them in there just so I could see them for a day or so. Then into the pond. They are doing great. So I figured if I could catch them I could put them all in the pond with an aerator and filter rigged up. And a net over the top to prevent escapees. Carol (MicrobeLift) says that is what she does for a quarantine tank and so I figured it would work for the three days or so to redo the pond. I would put it in a shady area away from the pond so they are clear of the noise and vibrations. Our pond is 30" deep in the shallows and about 9' across. So maybe luring them to food then dropping a net in to keep them from swimming to the deep end, and hence the deeper caves where they hide might work. I think the net we use to dipnet in the Chitna river has holes that are too big; need a smaller net, and certainly not a gill net.
BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 22, 2011
8:30 AM

Post #8646671

Well I has some success this morning. I caught 4 by starting early before they has their coffee!! LOL! They were still sleepy and I snuck up on them. I have now 8 of the 21 to take with me. I will keep trying different techinques until the movers show up tomorrow at 8am. Any uncaught fish will stay. :(
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 22, 2011
10:54 AM

Post #8646951

ohh... let us know how it goes. I am looking forward to pictures of their new home.
sawpalm
Winston Salem, NC

June 24, 2011
6:41 AM

Post #8651076

Problem with missing koi...During the past two months we have noticed that our four large koi and several smaller ones are missing from our pond which is about 10x by 5 ' with 2000 gallons of water. There are no animals to speak of so we don't think that is the problem. Could it have something to do with the water quality? We so no floating fish, yet we have huge water lillies. We thought maybe the koi got stuck in the root system of the waterlillies but we removed the water lillies an could find no evidence of this.

There is no drainage hole in our pond, only a skimmer box and a water fall.

What could it be? The only plausible answer I've found for our situation is that the water should have been changed more frequesntly. Or, maybe we have to remove some of the waterlillies (which are beautiful, by the way).

Thanks for your thoughts.
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
8:11 AM

Post #8651280

If the fish died due to water you should find a corpse I would think. And it is unlikely some neighbor is a koi-knapper. Do you have a any large stones on the sides of the pond. I do and they form large caves under the water where all 23 of my fish (none bigger than 10", most 5-6") can hide. They go in one cave entrance and will reappear on the other side of the pond (about 7' in an arc). What is your water temp? Maybe it is too hot for them and they are hiding out down below where it is cooler?
sawpalm
Winston Salem, NC

June 24, 2011
9:00 AM

Post #8651383

Thanks for your response, Mstella! It's great to hear from someone in Alaska!

Our pond is 3 ' at the deepest. We just drained it and pulled all the plants our to take a look at the roots, thinking that perhaps the koi got tangled in the roots. Found nothing. We clean the skimmer box about two times a week so they couldn't be in there. We do have coyotes in our area although we ahve never seen one and there are herons yet we havne't seen those either. It's a mystery!


We will now just get gold fish but it would be nice to find out what is going on.
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
9:16 AM

Post #8651424

that is really weird. I lose fish in the winter (although not last winter!! HooWa!) And in prior years some were large (for me, that is 8-9" koi). Never found corpses of several. I assume they are down in the bottom of the caves but you would think that that would foul the water terribly with decay but nope. No problems that I am aware of. Or they finally rotted away and that is why no losses this winter. I am trying some new products that include maintenance meds just to be sure the fish are healthy, espcially heading into our long winter.

You really went the extra mile to play detective. It's too bad it didn't yield results and answers. A conumdrum!! lol. But sorry for your loss. I only have 9 koi and the rest goldfish and comets, although a couple of the comets are white and quite large. I won't be adding any more until I see how the new ones (bought 7 koi this spring) fare over winter. Then I may have to try to find new homes for some of the gold fish to make room. They grow almost as fast as the koi and pollute the water at least as much.

Not knowing how your fish disappeared would make me a little hesitant to invest much in more koi until I could figure it out. We have no critters to bother my fish (an occassional cat but the fish tend to stay in the deep end when they see shadows, and the shallow end is still too deep for a cat.

How about Eagles??? Could they have discovered your pond and set up a buffett?
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
2:02 PM

Post #8652071

sawpalm -

How large were your large koi and your smaller koi? Are all the koi gone now? How did the remaining koi act? Did they act like they were scared and stay at the bottom of the pond?

Thumbnail by Carolyn22
Click the image for an enlarged view.

sawpalm
Winston Salem, NC

June 24, 2011
2:55 PM

Post #8652188

You folks are so nice to reply. It always helps to know others are concerned. Our koi were like the ones in the photo...about 10-12". There is a medium size on and several small ones. Our friend at the pet store thinks it must have been a heron or a coyote. There are lots of cats around and perhaps one of those got it.

One of the sad side effectsof this is our water lilllies, which have been blooming all summer. We had to pull them up because the only thing we could imagine was that the fish got caught in their roots. At least we did divide them, which needed to be done. No evidence of any fish in their roots. It's all very interesting and challenging. Nature allows a lot of learning...that's my thought for the day. Thanks again.

Ellen





Thanks
mothermole
Deer Park, IL
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
3:23 PM

Post #8652242

Goodluck Beahive- I know how much work is involved in what you are doing. What I do when i need to catch a fish is I leave the net in the water in the area where I plan to catch them (usually their feeding area) and within 24 hours they seem not to be spooked by it I feed the fish and hold the handle of the net and can get whomever I want to catch (as long as they are feeding). I will withhold food so there is a feeding frenzy and they aren't using their brains but their stomachs to think . . . lol

Realsis: FYI-you don;t need to buy that expensive pond salt for the fish. i use the 99.9% pure salt for my water softner that is sold at Menards. I have had it recommended here at Daves and have used it for 7 years and its great, works, and is cheap! Always nice to know (so you can spend that "saved"precious money on the necessities of life like more plants and fish . . . lol)
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
3:35 PM

Post #8652277

Carolyn, I absolutely adore your fish. they are what koi are really supposed to look like. I hope mine will live and be healthy so they grow up to be as nice as yours. Good idea on 'what are the remaining fish doing?" Like acting different from before; more skittish...
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
4:56 PM

Post #8652451

Ellen

If it was a heron - the smaller fish would just disappear and the larger fish would be speared. You would find the larger fish, but with the spearing marks through the fish. If you were visited by a cat, then the fish would be clawed and you would find the clawed bodies of your koi. A coyote could have gotten them or an eagle. We do have eagles around here and coyotes, but have not had either of those situations happen.

I would think that in any of the scenarios, your remaining fish would act skiddish - typically that is what happens afterwards - I will tell you though that we did have an issue with a heron visiting our pond while we were out of town - this happened a couple of years ago. The fish did not act skiddish, which surprised us. We had noticed that our smaller fish and some of the fry were missing, but it was not until we saw the heron that we realized what was going on.

Do you have one of those sensor water sprayers? That may help as well, although I do think if an eagle or some type of hawk is visiting your pond that the water sprayer wouldn't matter much. How many fish do you have left?

MS - thank you. I never tire of my fish and love pictures of others fish and their ponds as well. How is your pond work coming?

Thumbnail by Carolyn22
Click the image for an enlarged view.

MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 24, 2011
5:58 PM

Post #8652560

Carolyn22...

I love the pictures of your koi! What beautiful fish you have (as well as GREAT water quality!)

Once I get my final pond finished, I know I will have to get rid of a few. I just am SO very weak about buying another when I see a great looking one! I love butterfly koi, especially if they're ginrin or doitsu. But, I also know that having a gazillion 6 inch koi means eventually you have a gazillion 26 inch koi. And quite a few of mine are now in the 26 inch range. So...I've decided to keep only 3 of each variety when I move them to my finished pond (insert my sad face here _______ ) BUT, I'm really determined to do it, because I know I'm weak, and will buy more 6 inchers... yipes...

:D
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
5:59 PM

Post #8652563

Carolyn, it isn't. the fellow who does their pond stuff had a heart attack and was in the hospital. I have heard almost nothing from them. My pond edge, garden adjoining and the putting green are all torn up. I can't plant on the little hill by the pond as they are supposed to build it up more evenly. So I am stuck. I have pots with plants dug up sitting around the footings in the back of the house. Very depressing, but I don't want anyone else to do the work. I have had their work and won't throw more money their way. I will wait til next year if I have to. Sigh. But the pond is looking nice and clear, and tomorrow I start to remove the rock bottom (gravel). My new fish are very happy and I am working on getting them to come to the shallows when I sit there and toss in food. I splash the water and put my hand in to make little waves. Not a lot, but so they will maybe associate it with food and not be afraid. Of course, then they have six months to forget. They DO have little tiny brains. lol, but I do love them
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
6:00 PM

Post #8652569

Marry, what will (is) your new pond like? size, volume, depth, materials, etc.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 24, 2011
6:14 PM

Post #8652603

mstella...

In the past, I've had 3 smaller ponds built in between our layers of decking...

Because we are in Florida, and a very dry area when we're not getting hit by tropical storms and hurricanes, I exhaust myself trying to keep grass up and running. Several years ago, we decided to expand our decks, because we can entertain more on wood, than we can on dead grass, sand, and fire ants...
We built the layers of decks around our very small subdivision back yard. In between them, we built smaller 9x 7 ponds, about 3 feet deep. So you'd never be without water and fish, as you walked around the multi decking(s).
I have decided now to shut down 2 of the ponds, and make a larger 20x26 pond. I will still keep the one smaller 7 or 8 x 9 pond. The larger pond will be a straight sided rectangle, with an additional water fall area, leading in to a boggy waterfall...leading into the rectangular pond. Nothing designer cool, just something I can build/dig myself.

And then enjoy later...ahhh... :D
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2011
8:01 PM

Post #8652847

Sounds like a project. Not sure I would be up to starting over, but if I did, I would surely make it more efficient, liner, no rocks except around edges. Do you have shade on your ponds? I have no shade til way late in the afternoon. Algae is a bit of a battle but I think I have it under control for this year. Just vacuumed and treated it for the third time. It is a very hight maintenance pond; good think I love my fishies Yours sound really cool and -- smart.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 24, 2011
8:39 PM

Post #8652918

The hardest part is that no equipment can fit into our back yard, so it's all a hand dig by me...blah...
Yes, it will have a rubber liner, which I already have...
No shade where the pond will be, so I've ordered an 18x18 foot shade rectangle to put over the one end. I will continue to run a UV light, which helps greatly!
BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 25, 2011
6:00 AM

Post #8653297

We are here at the new place and all the fish survived the 45 minute drive. They will be transferd into their temp housing today,a large water trough. My pond builder from my previous house has agreed to do a new pond for me and can start soon. Yeah. I am excited to see what we can do to work around many of the oak trees on the property. I know one thing is that this pond will need netting in the fall. Back to unpacking now...ugh...
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 25, 2011
7:57 AM

Post #8653508

Beahive, did you have to leave any fish behind? "No fish left behind" lol. I am so excited for you. Our first pond was so awfully expensive that I would hesitate to build a new one, although... forewarned is forarmed - about all the things NOT to do. Please send pictures, and you too Merry. I had a good friend in highschool whose name was Merry Hoogerwerf. Not you I suppose?
BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 25, 2011
5:53 PM

Post #8654461

I did leave about half of them behind. But I was suppose to leave some as an item in my sales contract. I got 10 of the 21 so not so bad. Will be starting the new pond soon I hope and will photograph the process for all. Here is my empty canvas for my nbew garden. Lots of Oak trees so I need to be mindful of their roots and will need to net the pond every fall for sure. Very excited to get going on the pond and landscaping. :)

Thumbnail by BeaHive
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 25, 2011
6:40 PM

Post #8654567

I can certainly see the potential for a fabulous deck with built in ponds. what a neat idea. Is that log in the foreground the edge of the property?
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 25, 2011
7:00 PM

Post #8654617

Nope...not that Merry!

BeaHive...best of luck with your new ventures!
BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 25, 2011
10:55 PM

Post #8654915

The log that you see is an old retaining type wall. All that old wood (railroad tie) has been removed per my request as part of the sale. That and many others and the shed were infested with termites. Yuck! There is about another 15-20 ft beyond that to the fence.

Thanks Merry

This message was edited Jun 25, 2011 10:55 PM

Thumbnail by BeaHive
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 26, 2011
8:30 AM

Post #8655449

Again, looks like great potential and a loooooottttt of work. And you are going to had dig it? Holy cow! With tree root in the way. Ummm. Maybe a stick (small) of dynamite per pond hole? lol Only slightly joking.
Mary
WaterCan2
Eastern Long Island, NY
(Zone 7a)

June 26, 2011
8:40 AM

Post #8655462

Best of luck Bea! ☺
BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 26, 2011
1:14 PM

Post #8655897

I imagine my pond guy will bring in a small back hoe. I can't imagine trying to hand shovel a pond. Meeting with him this week to see what can be done. The soil is very hard and neglected. Will need tons and tons of compost to get a garden to grow back there. My last place was similar, but very wet & horrible drainage until I spent thousands on drains. . This yard has great drainage so one battle has already be won!!

Thanks WC
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 26, 2011
4:09 PM

Post #8656254

Well I just crawled out of the pond. Finally got in there to fertilize lilies, plant some parrot feather and dwarf cat tail. Dratted fish are eating the leaves on my lilies. I planted some in cat litter and the plants in pea gravel per a suggestion here at DG. I think they would be fine if they weren't being clipped so regularly. Oh well, at least it's good for the fish. also bailed out some gravel. When I get it all out ( oh, sometime in 2015 at the rate I am going) it will give me about 3 more" of depth. Can use every inch when the ice gets 1-2' thick and the shallow end is only 36" deep. And, oh the muck that is getting stirred up. Hope the poor fishies stay at the deep end. the skimmer should suck most of the stuff out if I only do a little at a time. Nice day for swimming though.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 26, 2011
6:38 PM

Post #8656504

BeaHive

Looks like there is so much potential there. You must be very excited. I am wondering - was your pond a selling feature of your old home or was it more a detriment? How did that go? I am curious. Eventually we will be moving, but that is not for quite some time - I have to retire first. But we too will be moving fish and building a new pond on the other end.

I really love the wooded part that you show in the second picture.

What do you plan on doing differently with this pond that you did not do with the previous pond?

BeaHive
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8a)

June 29, 2011
7:27 AM

Post #8661815

People who had small children of course were not drawn to the house. But the beauty of the garden & pond and the fact that it was a single story house made it perfect for my buyers. I met with my pond guy yesterday and we will be starting soon. (will post pictures when we break ground) The pond will be larger, have two falls and a stream. My hope is to get more of a natural woodland setting if I can keep the deer from eating everthing. Deer fencing a must...
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 29, 2011
2:16 PM

Post #8662529

My pond cleared up really well. Still have some green on the bottom. I am trying to clear the gravel out but it is slow going. Here is a shot of the whole pond from the lowest falls level.

Thumbnail by Oberon46
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 29, 2011
2:20 PM

Post #8662536

this is a shot of the cave they all dart into. There is one sidewise in the 'door' deciding whether to keep going for the food or to hide. Two more side by side headed in. The rest are eating. there are three koi eating -- the ones that look like tanchos are really just comets except for the one with black on his body. I have counted 27 in all, none but one over 8-9"

Thumbnail by Oberon46
Click the image for an enlarged view.

MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 30, 2011
5:41 AM

Post #8663654

I see that you have a skimmer...what kind of filtration do you use?
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 30, 2011
8:01 AM

Post #8663864

We have a biowell at the top of the falls (just a large round tank (for lack of a better word) with lava rock and two mesh pads; a pressure filter with bio-balls and a built in 25w uv; and the skimmer with one mesh pad. Not at all high tech.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 30, 2011
2:11 PM

Post #8664645

That's what I'm considering for the new rebuild, so wondered if anyone else was using a more simplified structure, with success. I was going to attempt a bog/bio area inside where the water fall water collects, then have it spill down a very small stream, and back into the pond...with a UV filter. On the opposide side, I'd probably still run a pressure filter that has a backwash. Rubber lined, no rock on the bottom. Pond (minus the bio fall/bog area and stream) would be around 18x25...3-4 feet deep.
Maybe?
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 30, 2011
2:26 PM

Post #8664664

sounds like a good plan. I really wish I had the bog area. I have heard that running the pond through a bog area is the best natural filter there is. I don't think it is enough by itself, but you also get the benefit of some really neat plants, and the natural look. So your pond would be around 18x25 PLUS the stream, bog, falls ,etc? WhooHaa. What a dream. And no rock on the bottom. I was just now getting my shorts and flipflops on to try to bail more gravel out of my pond. Slow going by myself. Might be able to get DH to help if he gets home from work and gets his workout done in time.
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

June 30, 2011
3:15 PM

Post #8664770

Well, I just got out of the pond. What a mess. I got maybe two 8 gallon buckets full of gravel out and made a mess of the water. It can't be good for the fish. I think I need to drain it down so there is only a few feet, maybe three in the deep end. shut off the skimmer so I am not filling the biowell with this junk (DH is going to scream when he sees it as he just cleaned it out.). I also lost my balance in sat down abruptly. Fortunately in the shallow end so only went in to my shoulders. A nice brisk 70 degrees. Oh, well isn't the first time, my balance being what it is, and one of the other times I had ice floating around me, so this was refreshing at least. This will take all summer at the rate I am going
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 1, 2011
4:37 AM

Post #8665667

MS -

Would it not be easier to drain the pond, take the fish out and then scoop out all the gravel and wash everything down until all the muck is out and then fill it back up and put the fish into the pond? I would think it would be easier for you and easier on the fish. My understanding is a lot of the gook at the bottom of a pond with gravel/stone in the bottom is a breeding ground for anaerobic bacteria.

Let us know how you do.

MM - The new pond sounds really nice - how many gallons do you think? I'd love to see pictures of your progress...

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 1, 2011
7:55 AM

Post #8665969

I absolutely agree although I hate the thought of the time it would take to rebalance the new pond water. Also, I can't catch the fish - hence this thread? Not my thread, but the same problem. We are thinking that we might lower the water so that there is enough in the deep end to keep the fish happy, create the equivalent of an oil leak boom across the pond (only 14') to separate the deep fromthe shallow, turn off the skimmer. We could then make our mess clean up the shallow end and mitigate the amount of yuk that the fishies have to deal with. Would also allow me to get into the deeper end and do some rock replacements. I have to keep the gravel in the deeper end as our water table is high and that is what holds the liner down. the big rocks around it certainly help, but it billows up with underwater pressure in the middle and can't be good for it.

I also have treated and continue to treat the pond with maintenance meds to steal a march on illness in the fish. As of now, they are healthy.

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