Photo by Melody
It's time now to VOTE in our 14th annual photo contest! Voting ends November 7, so be sure to cast your votes for your favorites in each category here. Good luck to all contestants!

Water Gardens: Dicouraged

Communities > Forums > Water Gardens
bookmark
Forum: Water GardensReplies: 39, Views: 392
Add to Bookmarks
-
AuthorContent
agedgardener
Fredericton N B
Canada
(Zone 4a)

July 6, 2011
4:58 PM

Post #8676839

Well I've had two deaths...my big fish that lived over the winter.I'm not able to see the young ones so they may have survived.My lotus has only produced two very small sick looking leaves so far. The water lilies are looking very healthy but no flowers so far.I"ve had a large maple tree removed so the little pond is getting full sun from eleven AM on.I have someone who will come and service the pond but he doesn't always get here as soon as I want him.I can't do anything myself now and the family are all away or working long hours.Sorry to be so negative JOY
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 6, 2011
5:20 PM

Post #8676888

Joy

It is ok to be negative. We all go through negative periods of time. My own feelings are if we had no negative periods, we would not know the difference when we have our happy periods and they would be taken for granted.

There have been a number of times that DH and I had wondered if it was always going to be fish illness every year or some other type of problem that we seemed to routinely encounter. Eventually smoothed out and went the way they were planned to go. You will get there.

Just remember, it will get better.

You are such a lovely lady and we are all here for you.

Carolyn
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 6, 2011
5:22 PM

Post #8676893

Oh, Joy. Wish I could help. I don't blame you for feeling down and discouraged. And you SHOULD share both the ups and downs here, with friends. Is your pond getting so much sun that it is getting too warm. No, I doubt it. Yours, like mine, is probably a whopping 72 degrees by day end. When the day starts at 57F, it takes a lot to warm up a pond. I am so sorry you lost your big fish. I lost one of my new koi last week. Not sure why except he looked just awful when we fished (ops, sorry) him out. We are putting meds in the pond now and then I worry about the meds. i have never used meds on my fish but am following the directions very closely. They are really slow and lethargic today. Am hoping it isn't all this stuff we are doing per the 'experts' down south (people we bought the fish from. Never had any trouble before... sometimes maybe not doing anything is better. so I share your discouragement, though for different reasons.
Mary
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 7, 2011
3:53 PM

Post #8678898

Talk about discouraged. I just spotted something on my new platinum ogon. Since it is very silver, the pink on its dorsal and just a the base of the tail where it meets the body is really obvious. It was most definitely not there a few days ago. After losing the other koi, I know I need to act fast but am totally ignorant of what to do. I sent an email to DH telling him we need to try to catch it tonight when he gets home so we can maybe get pictures and get some sort of diagnosis. All other fish, and even this one, have seemed fine. We removed all the gravel in the pond, I just put the last dose of the Proform-C and Prazi that the seller recommended as preventative maintenance. both meds. Then will start Koyzyme and AquaMeds-Summer Blend til fall. I have to wait five more days to do that, as the Prazi needs 7 days without any other treatment. I hate to ask the koi people as when the other one died they all but suggested that I needed a new pond; it was very pretty and all that, but not a good koi pond. Not enough oxygen, no hiding place for the fish, too shallow, etc. I believe that these were misperceptions on their part as the pond is 48" in the deep, and 26" in the shallow, 3000 gallons, caves and holes plus pots and two hollow bricks that they like to hide in and behind. right now they are in the shallows almost as if they are dozing in the sun in the shallows. The pond was 62F this morning and will raise to maybe 72F this afternoon. So no heat spikes per se. And they are eating like there is no tomorrow. When we removed the gravel in the larger shallow end, it took away a lot of the algae that grew on the bottom. Not bunches, but enough for the fish to graze on. the side rocks are pretty clean of algae except a spot or two.
agedgardener
Fredericton N B
Canada
(Zone 4a)

July 7, 2011
4:41 PM

Post #8678988

I too put some stuff in to clear the water.I don't have Algae but the water is very dark.I used it as directed .I was told it wouldn't hurt my fish.This evening I saw the one remaining large goldfish and he seems OK.There should be 5 young ones but I can't see them.I'm not putting anything else in my pond.Thanks for your sympathy...I need it. JOY
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

July 7, 2011
4:53 PM

Post #8679022

Both of you are in colder climates, and there are certain viruses/diseases that can manifest themselves as the water warms. I'm sorry for both of your losses, I know ponding is like the old boat joke about the 2 happiest days in your life being the day you buy it and the day you sell it. Most of us never go to part B with our ponds and our fish!
So...we all try to help each other...Keep posting, let us know how things are going along...maybe we can all figure it out together.

:)
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 7, 2011
5:23 PM

Post #8679112

MS -

Was there anything on the fish that died? Can you get some good close up photos of the pink spots on your fish?

Also - Do you know you cannot combine salt with Proform C.

Please post photos.

Carolyn
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 7, 2011
5:34 PM

Post #8679136

there were no growths on the one that died, Carolyn. Just a rotten fin, very rough scales. I have never used salt in my pond. Seems to be a bit of disagreement about using salt at all, so I have never done it. Never really needed to actually. When D gets home we will try to catch the fish and take pictures. We got good ones of the one who dies. I could post one of those.

Thumbnail by Oberon46
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 7, 2011
5:35 PM

Post #8679138

Another full body

Thumbnail by Oberon46
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 7, 2011
5:37 PM

Post #8679139

this is what the pond looked like 6-29; taken from the falls down into the 4' end. Clear as a bell. It looks like CR-- in the shallows now with the gravel gone.

Thumbnail by Oberon46
Click the image for an enlarged view.

MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

July 8, 2011
5:13 AM

Post #8679798

On the opposite side, I only use salt and healthy bacteria/enzymes. The fish pictured above, looks like it's in the beginning stages of dropsy. Not to be a bummer, but once you begin to see the bulging eyes and scales beginning to pop, it may be too late. However, I'd move it to a warm location (aquarium, etc) and start it on both an antibiotic dip and ONLY antibiotic food. Both can be found at the pet stores for smaller situations, but not for large ponds. The bulging eyes and pinecone looking popped scales are a result of edema from the inside of the fishes organs, from an infection.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 8, 2011
5:19 AM

Post #8679807

MS - have you checked your water parameters? I would take some readings.

My guess is the problem is bacterial, although not positive about that. It seems the fish has popeye, which means there are underlying problems.

Check out this link and see what you think. http://www.drjohnson.com/expanded/disease/bacterial.htm

Not sure if that is what is going on, however, you might want to either talk with a vet that specializes in fish or your local pond experts.

I wish I could give you more information.

Carolyn
realsis

July 8, 2011
8:04 AM

Post #8680097

hi.i raise koi. i have a 2250 gallon pond. checking water parameters is very important and will tell you a lot. sometimes this time of year ph crashes and spikes are very common. do you do your weekly water changes? its recomended to do weeklly changes of 25 percent of the water to maintain health.their is so much to learn and its a constant learning process. ive joined a koi club in my area and they have wonderful information avaiable. we are always learning. so many factors can influence a koi death that i couldnt even begin to guess. sounds like you did the right thing with the proform and prazzi. make SURE to quartine ANY new fish and PLANTS before you bring them to your pond because you can introduce bacteria into the pond that can kill the fish if not! this is very important. fish can be proformed for three weeks in quarentine (3 days of proform, the rest watch the fish). plants can be soacked for 15 minutes in potassium portmanagate then rinsed before putting into pond. this helps keep fish safe from forgin bacteria. hopefully this will help.

Thumbnail by realsis
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 8, 2011
8:52 AM

Post #8680160

Realsis, I see your pond just has the rubber liner. what is that thing that looks like a grid under the fish. The one to the right looks like the one that died.

I pretty much do everything wrong according to 'outside' sources. I have never had a ph problem, and do not check levels much during the summer. They are always the same. I will get a fresh test kit today, however, and check. I didn't quarantine the fish, although I started to, because the seller said that 90% of his customers didn't do so as he quarantines his fish when he receives them, then holds them for about four months. Never had a problem. Nor did I treat the plants I got from TWL this spring. Um, what else did I do wrong. The same stuff I do each year, with never a sick fish. It is hard to believe they may have been sick when I got them. The seller is very reputable. So that is not my first thought. Because we thoroughly clean the pond, both the pond itself and the biowell, we end up changing water several times each year, and this year especially we assured at least a 25% water change over a three day period while adding Proform-C and the Praxi. I think I have to wait 7 days to start the Koizyme and Summer Blend.

We discussed taking the fish out but it's like the kiss of death to do so. Seems like they die when they are removed. On the other hand, you can't miss the pinkish areas on dorsal and the base of the tail, topside. I just don't know what to do. And catching them is a trip. They dodge into caves behind the rock if spooked, and do it very quickly. We could try to block the main cave with the net, just letting it sit there so they get used to it, then working the sick one over there. Then what? What would I treat it with. We can't tell if it is damage from the rocks or an illness.

We don't have spikes that I am aware of because our water temp and such doesn't vary hardly at all. 62F in the morning, and maybe 72F by late afternoon. In 3000 gallons of water.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 10, 2011
10:32 AM

Post #8684040

Joy

How are you doing? I was wondering if things were starting to look up for you. Let us know.

Carolyn
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 10, 2011
11:33 AM

Post #8684153

Yes, Joy. I apologize for jumping in here. Pretty danged tacky. I also would like to know if things have brightened up a bit for you. You have a rather tough 'row to hoe' and you are in people's thoughts and prayers.
agedgardener
Fredericton N B
Canada
(Zone 4a)

July 10, 2011
8:22 PM

Post #8685045

My helper finally arrived and cleaned out the pump.Tonight I put the hose in and let the water run until it overflowed.We saw one big fish and four small ones.They were really frisky.The lotus still hasn't grown much and the waterlily have nice healthy leaves but no buds yet.The weather has warmed up so perhaps they'll bloom now. I am having a barium Xray on Tuesday so That will keep me busy tomorrow.Wish me luck.JOY
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 11, 2011
5:36 AM

Post #8685448

Joy

sounds like things are starting to come together with your pond. I am glad.

Good luck with your barium xray. Know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Carolyn
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 11, 2011
7:51 AM

Post #8685664

Congrats on finding you fishies. And good luck with the xray. They are always such fun --- NOT!
agedgardener
Fredericton N B
Canada
(Zone 4a)

July 13, 2011
2:52 PM

Post #8690568

My doctor called this afternoon to let me know that everything is OK.He is going on holidays and didn't want me to worry.I have diverticulitis and my biggest problem is gas.We will tackle that problem when he gets back.What a relief!!! My sister died of cancer of the intestine so I was scared.I'm so lucky to have a Doctor who takes such good care me.JOY
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 13, 2011
3:00 PM

Post #8690580

Oh Joy! Such wonderful news. I too would have been holding my breath until I heard back from the doctor. What a relief! Did you tell Arlene? I know she worries.

Congrats!
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 13, 2011
3:23 PM

Post #8690615

What a weight off your mind. I can only imagine how stressed you were until you got the good news. I am so very glad for you!
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 31, 2011
5:46 AM

Post #8726913

Joy

How are you doing? I have been thinking about you.

Carolyn
agedgardener
Fredericton N B
Canada
(Zone 4a)

July 31, 2011
9:21 AM

Post #8727310

Thanks for asking Caroline.I pretty good.My garden is lovely this year in spite of the crazy weather we had.My pond has been less than a success this summer.Even with more sunlight the lotus only produced two sickly leaves and the water lilies haven't bloomed.The water Hyacinth have done famously..even bloomed.I had to send a lot of them to the compost. It is frustrating to see things to do in the garden and be unable to do them.One of my roses attacked me a couple of weeks ago.I was doing a little deadheading and to make a long story short I have been on antibiotics and my foot elevated for the past week.My foot is better now thank goodness.I have been reading all the WG posts even though I haven't posted. JOY

Thumbnail by agedgardener
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

July 31, 2011
12:15 PM

Post #8727707

Hi Joy. You just have to stop living on the 'edge'. lol. Your lily is gorgeous. And you are way ahead of me. Mine have just barely started. And forget hyacinths in the pond. I did manage to get a Hyacinth Hybrid Mixed to blossom this year (think foxglove) I think. I get really confused with them. Do you know if they are perennial? Will they come back each year or are they biennial.

Hang in there. Old age and treachery will beat youth and ... oh, will you get the idea. Except I obviously don't advocate treachery, but I guess Mark Twain was not above it. Good to hear from you and that you are 'here' though not posting.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 31, 2011
3:20 PM

Post #8728090

Joy

Glad things are going well and that you are lurking. Love the lily.

I am not an advocate of treachery either - a lot of it seems to be around us though, doesn't it?

agedgardener
Fredericton N B
Canada
(Zone 4a)

July 31, 2011
5:04 PM

Post #8728310

I think the rose attacked me because it and it's buddies didn't get pruned properly this spring.The man who was pruning didn't do as I asked him to do..I knew it but didn't argue with him. Some men don't like to take orders from a lady.As a result I have these very overgrown roses. I'm just not going to look at them again this summer but when they are pruned in the spring I be standing over whoever is pruning and it will be done "MY WAY"
The Humming Birds have found my garden and feeders at last so I'll spend my time watching them JOY

Thumbnail by agedgardener
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 31, 2011
6:28 PM

Post #8728486

Joy -

I have been watching the hummingbirds too. I just love them, don't you?
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 16, 2011
8:03 PM

Post #8811684

This is no brag just fact: First pond, EPDM liner, rocked up sides, river rock covering the bottom. Had issues at first with cruddy water and added liquid clarifiers, didn't work, after 6 mos. cleared up itself, have original fish and haven't lost any except 2 plecos that croaked from cold and being trapped in skimmer. We are bldg. 2 more ponds joined by a stream. I just rocked up the walls today and will buy some more river rock for bottom. First pond has skimmer which I put filtration medium and then 5,000GPH pump is under that, sucks in leaves and detritis fine, water fall has bioballs and more filtration medium cut to fit it. All filtration gets hosed out about every 3 weeks. Finally invested $340. in UV clarifier and have clear water now even tho algae on bottom which koi seem to love to eat. Guess out of stupidity I broke all the rules but fish are happy and thriving so I'm happy also.
Will see what happens with these new ones. Our well water is slightly iron and that sure affects water clarity. I just want to seperate goldfish and oranda (who is now a foot long) we call him meatball and then add more koi to original pond. Third pone is for fish neighbors get sick of from their acquarium and like to dump into my pond. They have thrived also. Only other thing I have in my ponds is a few large snails from pet store. They don't have enough sence to stay out of the skimmer so I just grab them out and throw back into pond. They lay large clusters of pink eggs on plants and pond walls above the waterline. Some live and some don't make it but theres always some in there. I think the occasional frog uses their eggs for lunch. Happy ponding all. Bonnie

dyzzypyxxy

dyzzypyxxy
Sarasota, FL
(Zone 9b)

September 17, 2011
9:49 AM

Post #8812218

Such interesting pond stories. Bonnie, sounds like you're going to have a really pretty water garden. Watch out for your oranda, they are such slow swimmers that it's way too easy for the birds or raccoons to catch them.

Joy, you should not be discouraged with your lotus plant. They like really warm water as well as a lot of sun to grow well. It's possible that the weather just didn't get hot enough up there in NB this summer for your lotus. If it was in something like a dark-colored half barrel then the water might get a lot warmer and it would bloom. But it might be that the water cooling off at night would slow them down, too. Some people here use waterbed heaters to keep their pond water warm all winter so their plants keep blooming. Lotus are also heavy feeders, so did you give it fertilizer? Mine get 4 or 5 of the little fert tablets (formulated for water gardens) every month once the water is warm. Water in my pond is between 80 and 90 all summer (nights just do not cool off here in July and August).

I am very lucky to have bought a house with a well-established pond. I've never had any fish diseases that I know of, and other than the one incident of a white heron dining on my fish, (orandas) haven't lost any except the big resident pleco two winters ago when we had a record cold winter. He must have been pretty old anyway, because he was 18" long.

My water stays very clear, and I'm pretty sure it's because I have two big clumps of water iris growing in there. I hardly ever even clean the filter and leaf basket, maybe every 6 weeks or so. I let some algae grow because my fish eat it and it's hardly noticeable. After the heron incident, I bought ten 29 cent goldfish from Petsmart. Nine of them are still thriving two years later and last year they had babies, two of which survived. (#10 was found floating in the skimmer the day after he came home) They are fast, and I do not feed them anything except if the duckweed grows in the top of the waterfall, I collect that and give it to them as a treat. Other than that they live on algae. This very likely helps to keep the water clean, too. I have tried to avoid training the fish to come to the surface when they see a person. Nice though this is, the orandas came to the surface when they saw the white heron, and he said 'Yum, lunch'.

My abiding thought about my pond is, if you can keep it 'in balance' the water will be clear, the plants and the fish will be healthy and it will be a joy and not a burden. Finding balance is tricky, but once you get it, with the right amount of plants, fish, sunlight and air in the water, it's a wonderful thing. Mine goes for weeks at a time with just a little cleaning of the odd dead leaves, and topping up the water level as needed from my rain barrel.

Here's my little lotus 'Baby Doll' in bloom.

Thumbnail by dyzzypyxxy
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

September 17, 2011
10:41 AM

Post #8812266

Do you have a gravel bottom?

dyzzypyxxy

dyzzypyxxy
Sarasota, FL
(Zone 9b)

September 17, 2011
12:29 PM

Post #8812368

No, there are fair sized rounded rocks on the bottom of the pond, holding the liner down. Grapefruit to watermelon size, I'd estimate.
Oberon46
(Mary) Anchorage, AK
(Zone 5b)

September 17, 2011
1:35 PM

Post #8812410

We removed the gravel in the larger shallow area and now I want to remove it from the deep end which is only about 4x4 at the bottom but I would need large rocks like yours to hold down the liner as the water table is so hight it lifts the liner.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 17, 2011
2:16 PM

Post #8812434

dyzzy,
I was told in Fl. we are not allowed to have water lettuce in a pond because its invasive to our lakes. Is that true? What about water hyacinth also. They would be good filtration beds.
Bonnie

dyzzypyxxy

dyzzypyxxy
Sarasota, FL
(Zone 9b)

September 17, 2011
2:49 PM

Post #8812467

Bonnie, that's right, both water lettuce and water hyacinth are Class 1 invasive exotics in Florida. They are also in several other states.

But, to be honest, I think it's sort of a non-issue as long as you are careful not to intentionally let any get loose into natural waterways. Your pond is a 'closed' system other than the possibility of a bird carrying seeds or plant parts away. Very unlikely. I must come clean and confess that the iris in my pond are also an invasive species. But because they almost never bloom I am not in the least worried that they are spreading around. I am systematically replacing them with Louisiana Iris but I'm worried if I pull them all out at once the water quality will suffer! Also they are very vigorous - the rhizomes are as thick as my wrist, when I hack them out of the pond in the spring.

There is so much of both water lettuce and water hyacinth around here, you wouldn't believe. The ditches are blooming with water hyacinth, and just down the road from me the Red Bug Slough Preserve has water half covered with water lettuce. The cold weather set it back some, but did not kill it all off.

That being said, I'd strongly recommend you look at something native like Blue Flag iris, or Water Canna aka 'Alligator Flag'. They are great filter plants. Stay green and nice looking all winter, even through the cold, too!

Thumbnail by dyzzypyxxy
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 17, 2011
6:11 PM

Post #8812711

Thank you for the info. I have regular canna in my pond now and it is doing well. I will look for Louisana and blue flag iris. Bonnie
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 24, 2011
6:58 PM

Post #8822652

Yipee,
Have to show the pics of husb. putting fountain into one of the new ponds. Rigged up a little boom to carry it out of shed to pond location. He has a lot of patience with bldg. anything.
It is painted with leftover pool paint as after many phone calls to paint companies it is the only kind they said should be OK submerged. If it flakes and the fish eat it they said they would get ulcers. If that happens it will have to be removed from pond. This represents a weeks worth of work. I dig husb. does technical stuff. He has brass shut off valves on all waterlines to control flow rate. Skippy filter is old chlorine tub that I will paint and then paint some flowers on it to help disguise. Also I have more landscaping to do around it. I wanted a drain out of bottom of skippy filter into flower bed so the fish poop should be great for the plants. I put those edging rocks in place and cemented a bit around them. Both new ponds will have river rock on the bottom and already washed and put river rock in little stream between them.
Heres the pics.

Thumbnail by BonnieGardens
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 24, 2011
6:59 PM

Post #8822654

2nd one

Thumbnail by BonnieGardens
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 24, 2011
7:01 PM

Post #8822657

Last one

Thumbnail by BonnieGardens
Click the image for an enlarged view.

BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 28, 2011
6:10 PM

Post #8828482

Filled up both ponds last night. Turned everything on this morning. Yipee!! its working. Husb. wasn't surprised but I'm kind of skeptical when it comes to things working first time. Tomorrow I will build a little walkway with leftover boulders and mulch and then have to go to a nursery to get plants to go all around edges. Can't wait to get some fish in there. Will take some more pics when its all landscaped.
Have a good week. Bonnie

You cannot post until you register, login and subscribe.


Other Water Gardens Threads you might be interested in:

SubjectThread StarterRepliesLast Post
Lotus/Kitty Litter Mardell 36 Jun 21, 2011 5:29 AM
This is my waterpond before we started the new construction! TraciS 9 Feb 19, 2008 1:35 PM
No Pump Water Garden gardening101usa 4 Mar 12, 2007 5:50 PM
Easy and inexpensive pond... BigDaddy99 85 Aug 8, 2008 11:05 PM
How many ponders are out there ?? List your names - Update! judycooksey 364 Jul 24, 2014 8:15 PM


We recommend Firefox
Overwhelmed? There's a lot to see here. Try starting at our homepage.

[ Home | About | Advertise | Media Kit | Mission | Featured Companies | Submit an Article | Terms of Use | Tour | Rules | Privacy Policy | Contact Us ]

Back to the top

Copyright © 2000-2014 Dave's Garden, an Internet Brands company. All Rights Reserved.
 

Hope for America