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anyone dealing with Bad Goats- specifically buck goats?

Conway, NC

Hi! I am new here, reading posts- like it!
Our problem: we went an extremely looong drive away ( this is my fault, of course) to get this billy goat kid- a savanna goat. I was not used to the breed- they are from south Africa like the Dorper, no that's sheep- brainfreeze...- anyway, savannas are all white, a little bit smaller, and can raise TRIPLETS without assistance, they are really good milkers. I am wanting a goat that will milk through cooler parts of year, and that's not the way most goats operate.
so- He was the cutest thing, really friendly - cuddly almost ( yes, I made a pet out of him) and suddenly - like a switch was flipped, he's BAAAD. using his horns on everything, BIG bruises on me, I carry a little piece of rebar out in the pen when I go in and I have used it several times.
the thing is.. I LOVE his daughters. They are sweet, fun goats, very healthy, extremely parasite resistant- I hate make up a holding cell just for him- but I know there must be nicer goats out there...

Pelzer, SC(Zone 7b)

Sounds like he's just growing up. l think you want to keep the blood line, but how about a son? Might have some of Dad's good traits, but be a nicer critter? Or look into trading him for a nicer one of the same breed. Maybe to someone who has little actual contact with their breeding males, if that's an option.
I'm not familiar enough with goats to really offer any help, but hopefully someone will be along who can...

Ferndale, WA

Hi Peetzmom: Had a good laugh with this one. Think I'd trade the rebar in for a shot gun...LOL. Just kidding. I don't do goats so can't really help.

Just wanted to say welcome to the forum. Hope the folks here can give you some good direction, Lots of these fine folks have goats and will help you out...Haystack

Gosh Catmad, glad to see I'm not the only one who can't sleep at times...have a great day...Hay

This message was edited Jul 11, 2011 3:27 AM

Pelzer, SC(Zone 7b)

Mornin', Hay. I've already got the critters fed and walked. It's not as early, here....:)

Tamworth, NH(Zone 4b)

Part of the problem is that you made a pet out of him, instead of keeping him respectful of you. So now he feels he can push you around. This is what *I* would do - I'm not telling you to do this because I don't know you or the buck. I'd take a spray bottle and fill it with a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water and set it to stream. When he came towards me with intent, I'd give him a good faceful of it (several squirts) and as soon as he backed up/turned, I'd chase his butt around for a minute using a strong voice to scold him and the rebar to poke him and keep him moving away from me, or I'd get a switchy type branch and give him some good stinging whacks across his haunches but keep him moving away from me and use the vinegar/water again as needed. It wouldn't hurt him, but it would teach him that I'm not to be trifled with.

Disclaimer: this is what has worked with me for rams that were too forward. I imagine it would work just as well with a buck.

Regardless, NEVER turn your back on him. He's not trustworthy. He sees you as an equal he can challenge and he CAN seriously harm you. You might want to do like catmad said and keep a buck offspring, send this one down the line, and then train the replacement from early on by not making a pet of him and not letting him sit in your lap or climb on you or all those other cute things they do when they are small. Ram lambs are super friendly too, and it's so easy to cuddle them but you can end up with a monster that way. I have rams that I can walk up to and give chin scratches or chest scratches (never pet a buck or ram on the forehead), but they move when I want them to, and I will send them to freezer camp if they don't behave.

Ferndale, WA

WOW Galles, You are one tough Woe-man...LOL...actually I love it. I surely will never trifle with you, and you can take that to the bank...LOL...Hay

Conway, NC

thanks for the welcome! I am hearing you! Yes, I know I was wrong to pet and love on this critter- but he FEELS so good. I have never seen a goat, on any other animal but a few breeds of dogs have this type coat- it's very short, like velour. In spring, he shed out the mohair, you could rub your hand over him, and it would roll up exactly like dryer lint. I do know about not handling a buck or a rams head- however, I have no control over my neighbor- a really good guy, a trucker, that loves this goat to death. Ditto for the goat. They run to meet each other at the back fence. so. another problem, don't want to tick off the trucker-dude..
I am not used to living so close up under people- I have always, all my life nearly, lived down a looong lane.
so when this last problem happened, I just was very loud---
actually, what precipitated it, is that I was creeping up beside the new mule, with a bottle of flyspray in my hand, hoping to at least spray him from the knees down.. I was paying no attention to goat, who smelled the mule reward cooky in my right hand.
I think I did get one good spray in...the goat charged in for the cookie, I kicked him with not much effect (flip flops)
he walked by me in a temper and hooked me behind my knee.
then it was GAME ON. I yelled that he was a fat little SOB, and I was going to KILL him.

In my mind I must have had super-powers, cause I was thinking I would just grab those horn, flip him over and Teach Him a Lesson- however, he spread his chunky legs and did not flip, so we were like some strange form of sumo wrestling.
I finally reached for the bug spray, and sprayed him on the end of his nose, he curled his lip up and snorted snot on me, said "Bwah!" and we both walked off stiff legged and called it a draw.
since then, the friendship is over, and I point my rebar at him, he backs up -- goes BWAH, and that's about it.
we may just have to make a goat prison for him.
he was born a triplet, and this year sired 2 sets of trips, off 3 goats he bred.
hate to send him down the road out of temper.
another option is having horns removed., after fly season.
will have to think on this further
ps- it was 2 weeks before I could get close to mule again with fly spray....

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

I don't keep a buck for just these reasons but Galles has hit it on the nose. Dehorning is a big undertaking and is hard on the animal. It's best to disbud but that is not an option at this point. You will have to rotate in new blood either through a new buck or new does. Unless, of course, you don't keep any female kids for breeding. Good luck with him.

Tamworth, NH(Zone 4b)

Ha ha! Haystack, I bet the neighbors think I'm plumb crazy. I have been known to, more than once, chase mis-behaving rams around their pen, whacking their woolly butts with my stick and yelling "You wanna try that again?! I've got more where that came from!!!" :-D

peetz, your story made me laugh! That was a good try to flip the buck, but it sounds like you got his attention regardless. I love the "BWAH!" LOL. We've done that once with a ram but it took two of us to take him down, so I'm not surprised that your buck was able to stay upright. I remember sitting on this ram yelling at him "you do that again and you're on the truck to the butcher!" That was after he rammed my DH right in the thigh from a good 8 feet away. That hurt! After we let him up he went as far away from us as he could and stared at us like we were nuts. :) He did end up going to freezer camp - I didn't like his attitude and he didn't "feel" right to me, and he wasn't the greatest example of an Icelandic ram anyway.

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

Galles, we must have been seperated at birth. I know my neighbors think I'm crazy. If a roo bows up at me I run him around the pen whacking him with a stick and yelling threats at him. Then I catch him and do the Haystack maneuver on him. Of course, at this point his may may be hanging less from submission and more from having his hindend chased and booted until he CAN"T hold his head up anymore! LOL

Tamworth, NH(Zone 4b)

Cajun, you may be right. :-D As a toddler, my parents tell me that I used to yell at our collie when she did something bad. Her name was Sandy, but I called her (for reasons known only to a toddler's mind) "Zoggin." As in, "Zoggin, you naughty god!" Yep, couldn't pronounce "dog" right either, but I was going to have my say! LOL

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

Too funny! When I was little we didn't have AC so the doors and windows were open to the breeze. I'd crawl down the kitchen steps to go play with my bulldog, Susie. When I wanted to come back in I'd crawl toward the steps but Susie didn't want me to leave her so she'd catch me by the shirt tail or put her paw on me. Momma said she knew I was trying to get back in because she could hear me hollering "Tu Tu". I sure did love that dog. She was born the same week I was and Daddy brought her home for me when we were both 6 weeks old. She was my playmate and my protector. Anybody messed with me and she'd have a piece of them. Daddy would pretend to spank me and she'd hold his hand in her mouth. She was a beautiful gray and brown brindle.

(Zone 6b)

Cracking me up here. Thank you. What wonderful stories.

Alba, TX(Zone 8a)

You guys are making me laugh so hard (I'm at work)!

Taking notes about buck-handling. I'm getting goats as soon as I can. I want Kikos, but they are hard to find here in NE Texas so I'll probably have to travel to OK to get some. It's sooooo hot here right now I don't think it would be a good idead to trailer them right now. Have the pasture, shelter, fencing, and water source are ready. Just need the goats!

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

I have never heard of Kikos.

Alba, TX(Zone 8a)

They are meat goats.

http://www.kikogoats.com/

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

Very manly! Love that long horn.

Conway, NC

well, that was one long pause... got computer back from shop.. enjoyed reading comments. Yep, I think this guy is on the way out..
disbudding is one thing, ( a GOOD thing) but dehorning is just not worth the effort- and pain involved, for this goat.
I think he might be A Bad Egg.
However, I do like his daughters, so I guess he was worth it.

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

Is butchering him an option?

Conway, NC

Right now I cannot imagine being hungry enough to eat something that smells THAT BAD. He is in pasture with a horned nanny (sorry, she just IS, she is not nearly polite enough to be called a "doe") and he has worn her out. She is lying down, face tucked away- he is a lunatic. He's out there in nearly 100 degree heat, going BWAH, snorting, pawing her and hassling like a dog.
I expect him any minute to explode like the little bird in the Shrek movie. Everything else out in pasture ( and house!) would say YES!! if that happened.
He is now advertised for sale.
let's hope that happens.
see- this is how I originally got into COWS. years ago. I don't want to repeat the loop! There has GOT to be a reasonable alternative here.

Alba, TX(Zone 8a)

I think that is why some folks lease a buck for a month or so.

Richmond, TX

There is always A-I.

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

My step sister had a goat dairy and they kept the buck in his own enclosure far from the does. When they wanted to breed a doe they took her to him and then took her out after the breeding. He was really big and really mean. They kept him chained in the middle of his pen so they could walk around inside next to the fence. They kept him because he threw good kids.

Conway, NC

there is a ray of hope.. got a call on the buck goat-- they know the breed! seems like they want him! I am crossing everything but my EYES that they do!
They have 80 !!! goats- he will think he has died and gone to billy goat heaven.
They asked if he was friendly- I told her he was WAAY more friendly than you would like, given how badly he smells.

Alba, TX(Zone 8a)

LOL! Good luck!

Conway, NC

Good News!! the Bad Billy has moved on down the road. yesterday- it was nearly 100 degrees, the people came to see him, and all of us- both of them, me, the miniature horse, 2 llamas, a mammoth donkey and a HUGE mule, all crowded together to peer at this goat like we were in a zoo.
Sweat pouring off all of us.
The goat was not impressed, stood up on the fence and said BWAH- stuck his tongue out sideways at the man, and wiggled it.
the man said he would take him, on the spot.
I celebrated by putting a kiddy pool in the pasture, filling it, and sitting in safety, watching the dogs and llamas taking turns in it.
this is what happens when older people dont have grandchildren- they make them up! substitutes! ha ha!
anyway- alls well that ends well- goat is better off there, they are nice people, and were just amazed he was so 'friendly"
I warned them about occasional lapses.. but I think they'll all be fine.

on to the next!

Richmond, TX

Good job!

Tamworth, NH(Zone 4b)

Congratulations! The guy must have been charmed by the BWAH! and the wiggling tongue. :-D

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

Great news!!!

Alba, TX(Zone 8a)

LOL! Glad to hear your "ship" has been righted! =D

Sue, RI(Zone 6a)

Too Funny!! We've had goats for many years and if a buck has a bad temperment, off the farm he goes!! We had one the second your back was turned you could hear the thundering sound of hoofs on the ground. As soon as you turn around to face him, he would stop and give a sleepy look, "what?!" Turn around, repeat, and he'd be even closer! The last time I saw him he was in the back seat of a cutlass supreme with his face looking at me through the back window! Ciao Baby!!

Alba, TX(Zone 8a)

LOL! saanansandy, that sounds like a Monty Python skit!

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

LOL!!!!!!! I'd have paid money to see that.

Mint Hill, NC(Zone 7b)

It was playing red light green light with you....lol

Sue, RI(Zone 6a)

Absolutely! I swear you could see the amusement in his eyes! lol!

(Zone 6b)

Sounds like my donkey, only he would never really hurt me on purpose. He just loves to tease. Those eyes of his do twinkle as he threatens to bite me.

Redwood City, CA

OMG, the attempted sumo wrestling story was just hilarious! Thanks for all the entertainment and I'm glad the thorn is out of your side, literally and figuratively!

Conway, NC

good news, new buck is REALLY nice! AND the nanny goat that was being bred over and over-- well, she didn't take! guess she didn't like him either!
I put him in pen with her, and the deed was done before I got the gate latched- 24 hours later, all was settled.
new buck is registered Nigerian Dwarf, got too big ( hey, if you need a good buck, that's the place to look- ) got plenty of info on his mother, sister, saw his babies, and he looks like an itty bitty Oberhasli with a white spot on end of his tail and BLUE eyes.
took my critters awhile to realize he wasn't EVIL; in fact, the donkey tried to kill him on sight- word to the wise- Never Make a Donkey Mad- finally he understood that this goat was harmless. Now he's one of the guys- and has this adorable "beer wagon strut" just like a Clydesdale. Now I have to have one that matches him, in color, so I can have a pair to pull and antique goat wagon I have.
He's NOTHING like the Nigerians I remember having before- they might as well go ahead and make 2 breeds- milking Nigerians, and pet Nigerians...

Tamworth, NH(Zone 4b)

That sounds wonderful! So glad everything worked out.

Biggs, KY(Zone 6a)

Can't wait to see a pic of the new guy. He sounds grand.

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