Does hot 90+ degrees prevent daylilies from setting pods?

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

I have tried to cross daylilies (tetras) without success. About the time my new daylilies began to bloom our temp reached 90 degrees and more for a whole week. Still hot. Last year I had no problems with other daylilies (dips) setting pods.

Are tets more difficult to cross, or is it the heat, or combination of the two? I am new at crossing tets since I recently began to purchase them. I am saving pollen incase the weather cools.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thumbnail by blomma
Kylertown, PA(Zone 5b)

Yes, the heat is playing havoc with daylily hybridizing this year. I am losing just about half of all of my morning efforts, and it doesn't seem to matter how early you get out in the beds.

Some years are just like that. :-(

This message was edited Jul 20, 2011 1:28 PM

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

IndaShade,
Thanks for answering. Darn, I was afraid of that. And I have so many new tets that are starting to bloom. It is still hot here. Was out early this morning crossing them. I collected pollen just incase our weather cools. Purchased those small tubes from a seller on LA. They work great for storing pollen.

You are ahead of me. So far not one bod. I have both tets and dips and neither have set buds. Last year before new tets bloomed, I had so many dip pods.

All I can do is continue and hope for the best.

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

blomma, it's been really hot here too the last three or four weeks, which is when I've finally had some blooms opening, and I've got at least 15 pods on my tets! The only days that I've been able to get it to work though were early mornings when it was very cloudy. Half of my daylilies are in full sun, and the other half are in part sun. I had almost no success last year with getting seed pods on the tets that are in full sun, but I've had much better luck this year. Like I said though, I've only had luck on the cloudy days, even if it ended up being a really hot day.

Now that I've got lots of blooms ready to open, I need to make something to shade the plants that are in the full sun bed, at least until I can get all of the crosses made. My neighbor had a very large cherry tree cut down a couple of months ago that gave the flowers a little bit of shade in the morning. Now the sun hits that bed as soon as it comes up over the mountains, and the flowers aren't really opening up until they get some sun on them. I don't know why this is happening, because the other bed gets no morning sun, but the flowers are opening up just fine!

Natalie

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, I don't have one pod, or even the start of one on my tets so far. Likewise on my dips. Here I thought wow to cross all my new tet daylilies. What a letdown.

I'm saving pollen just incase it cools off and I have better luck. 100 degrees in the sun today and that is where my daylilies are growing. I was out early this morning so hope that works.

My dayliles just started to bloom about 2 weeks ago and I still have plenty of buds to go. It can't stay hot forever----can it? This is WY. No problem with the buds opening but I noticed that by late afternoon they don't look fresh around the edges and some look like they have bleached spots on them, especially red ones.

Lilly

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Lilly, I had the same problem last year. It took me forever to get a pod on a tet, and this year, all the pods are on tets, but it's only because I haven't crossed any dips yet. I'm sure I'll have better luck with the dips, but the ones I want to cross haven't started blooming well yet. I've had some failures too, so it's not like I've got a perfect record! I'm out there before the sun can hit them, when they are barely opening, and I think that has something to do with it. The ones that are in the shade in the morning have been pretty easy so far. It's the ones that are in the full sun bed that I've had more failures with. But, it's working occasionally, so I'm happy if I get a few pods. Tets are harder to cross, so I keep that in mind when it doesn't work, and then I don't feel so bad!

I really do believe that if you could make something to shade them while you are doing the crosses, and leave it up for a while afterwards, it would be a big help. I still haven't made myself something, but I really need to do that. Even an old sheet would work if you could make something to hang it off of. I keep thinking I'll make something fancy, but it doesn't need to be fancy! It just needs to keep the sun off of them for a while! I think just a long piece of rebar stuck in the ground, a few feet apart, with a sheet hung between the two pieces would be enough. Not fancy, and certainly not expensive! I'd rather spend my money on plants!

Another suggestion would be to look the plants up on Tinkers and see if the ones you are trying to cross have any offspring that have been registered. I always look at the pod and pollen count to see if one number is higher, if there are a lot of offspring. If most or all of the offspring are registered as being from the pollen of the flower, it's a pretty safe bet that it won't set seed, no matter how hard you try!

Let me know how it goes! I'll be cheering for you!

Natalie

Kylertown, PA(Zone 5b)

In the southern areas of the country, they do their hem hybridizing in greenhouses or under shade cloth and it does make a difference. Unfortunately, those of us in the north don't always do that. I have very little shade in my yard yet--everything is in full sun.

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie,
I'm surprised that some of your dip hems haven't started to bloom yet. You are in a warmer zone than I am. Mine started with Stella de Oro about 2 weeks ago. Last year I had plenty of dip pods. We had some hot weather but not for so long a stretch as this year. Thanks for advise.

My dips are in a seperate bed on the west side of my house. It is shady there most of the morning. So far that has not helped getting pods. My tets new for me this year are in full sun in a different bed. Likewise no pods. Not all are blooming since most got planted end of May. I am surprised that the new ones are even blooming.

I could hang a sheet from the 4ft fence to give them shade. Trouble is the wind. The sheet would probably sail to my neighbors yard. Saturday will be a few degrees cooler so will get out early to cross.

Lilly

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Lilly, I've been surprised at the lack of blooms on some of my dips. They were blooming away last year, and everything was blooming at once. Making crosses was super hectic! This year has been totally different! The dips have just now started opening up, and the tets started on July 4th. Tomorrow will be hectic because it looks like some of everything will be blooming! I guess I'll be up before the sun!

Natalie

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, strangely my tets began to bloom before my dips. However, I have only had tets as of last season. Ordered more that I planted end of May and quite a few of those are now blooming. They started about 2 weeks ago but since they are newly planted, not so may blooms. The dips are now really putting on a show and when I checked today, I am getting some pods growing. Only one pod growing on my tets so far (CHINESE CHARIOT). Newer dawned on me that heat would play a role on daylilies forming pods.

I am out early in the morning also and cross tets eventhough the blooms may not be fully open. If I need to, I use pollen that I have saved. No clouds here except late in the afternoon when we do get it. About the time the tets began to really bloom, we had rain in the late afternoon every day for a week. I don't suppose that helped my crosses any.

How long does the pollen have to be on the pistil before rain would not undo the cross?

Lilly

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Lilly, Congratulations on getting a pod on a tet! I was so excited when I got that first one last year, after many failures! I have way more tets this year, and my success rate is way higher this year, but I think a lot of it has to do with the huge amount of cloud cover we had when they were first blooming for the season. Today would have been the perfect morning to be making crosses because it's cooler and cloudy, but sadly, half the state was up all night setting off fireworks, so I got no sleep. It was Pioneer Day here in Utah yesterday (a state holiday), so I'll drag myself out of bed tomorrow before the sun comes up!

I've had really good luck with saved pollen. I've had to use a lot of it this year because I had so many new flowers that bloomed before my older ones have. I was really worried about that, but it's gone really well.

Good question about how long the pollen needs to be on before the rain can undo the cross. I don't have an answer, so I hope someone else will know the answer. I know I've got a few pods that set on days that it rained, but I can't remember how long it was after I dabbed on the pollen that the rain started. One morning we weren't expecting rain, and I was out there for a couple of hours making crosses, and then there was a downpour. I was so disappointed! No pods that day as it was a serious downpour!

Natalie

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, another hot day---95 degrees. I was out this morning crossing. Discovered a few more mainly dips. It seems that bugs/bees are smarter than me since I have some pods that I didn't cross. There are no labels or black marker on the flower stems. I'll take them anyway.

What is a pain is that I have to hand water so the crosses don't get wet. Sure wish we had some cloud cover here. At least all my iris pods are growing. No problem there. Had 81, not down to 79 due to a clumsy foot---mine. Stuck the stem in water and hope the seeds mature anyway.

How do you save your pollen? Any special tricks?

Lilly

South Hamilton, MA

Re iris pods. You can stick the stem into a potato until pod matures.

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

irisMA, That is very interesting! Are you the one who thought to do this? If it was you, what made you think to try it? It cracked me up, but I'm glad to know that it works! I've never hybridized iris before, but I keep promising myself that I'll try it!

Lilly, I save my pollen in a folded 3 X 6 Post-It note. I got the idea from this article:
http://www.tinkersgardens.com/?doc=Daylilies&subdoc=Hybridizing_Daylilies

I have very busy bees at my house too. Last year it was a serious race to see who could get to the flowers first, but this year has been a little better. I think it's just a lot hotter this year, and maybe the bees are sleeping in longer than I am. I didn't do any hybridizing this morning, due to my lack of sleep last night, but I did enjoy watching a huge black bumble-bee of some sort go from flower to flower this morning. His whole belly was covered in pollen and he could barely lift off! Afterwards, I noticed a lot of stigmas with pollen on them! Sometimes the bees are better at it than I am, so I'll take what I can get! I had several crosses made by bees last year, and I'm just as anxious to see what they did as I am to see what I did!

It was nice and cloudy today, so I wish I had been able to drag myself out of bed earlier. It's been pouring down raining this evening, so maybe it's okay that I slept in. I just hope that the flowers open okay in the morning. Sometimes it seems that they get waterlogged when it rains the night before. And I hear you on the hand watering! I have to do the same thing. Sometimes I love it, but most times I don't!

Natalie

South Hamilton, MA

I didn't invent the potato method, information was passed along. Then Barry Blyth of Australia just sticks the stems into the ground. I may have to try that this yr. as I have to dig some of the plants with bee pods. I don't know if any of the 2 methods works with daylilies.

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

irisMa,
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I don't own one potato. I don't use them. But will keep it in mind since my daughter uses them.

Anyway, I did read somewhere on Daves that a known hybridizer sticks iris stems in water that were knocked over, the reason I am doing that. I change the water and recut the stem daily.

Natalie, wow, I read the whole article found with your link. Very interesting and informative. He did mention heat being one reason why daylilies don't set pods. I bookmarked that article for future use. Thanks for posting it.

Hmm...I got those little tubes from LA for pollen. They work good but there is something I can't figure out. Everyone, inluding you, use stored pollen successfully. I found that not all pollen will stay loose and fluffy. Only those stamens that produce thick fluffy pollen. Those that produce small anther (or is it antler?) with pollen that never gets fluffy and stays unopened. They stay dried. Even scraping with fingernail don't help. Yet still others, are thick and fluffy but dries hard in storage even though I have allowed them to dry first. I have stored pollen in glassine envelopes before I got the tubes. No different result. It worked for Iris pollen.

What am I missing?

Today nice and cloudy so I hybridized this morning. Son of a gun, you can't win for lose---we had a rainstorm with thunder and lightning. I mean it rained hard. So no way do I know if the pollen remained on the pistils.

I think the pollinators are ants, more than bees here. I now pull off all stamens after I crossed the flower to prevent nature to do its thing. Sometimes I use them on another bloom. Or else store them.

My first ruffled edged, fancy Daylily SPACECOAST KRINKLES (Kinnebrew 1999). Love it!

Edited to add that this Daylily purchased from Blueridge and planted end May 2011, It is its first flower. You bet it has been crossed, both as a pod parent and pollen parent. Notice the lovely thick and fluffy pollen it produced.

This message was edited Jul 26, 2011 10:23 PM

Thumbnail by blomma
Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Lilly, The only way I've ever stored pollen is in folded Post-It notes, and I've used it successfully, so I don't know if it can all be stored that way or not. It's just the stuff I have collected and used has been very good. I do have a lot of stored pollen that I haven't used though, so maybe it isn't all good. But, what I've used has been really fluffy, right out of the freezer.

I really don't have the patience to scrape the pollen off the anther. I just pull the anther off and stick it in the Post-It note. I've used a Q-tip to dip in the pollen and then dab it on the flower, and that has worked well. This year though, I bought some of those scissor type tweezers, and just grab an anther out of the post-it, and dab that on the flower. Seems to works really well that way too. I'm surprised that the anther isn't affected by freezing! It's nice and soft, and the pollen is just like it was when I put it in there.

I've got a few flowers that have had those little, somewhat hard anthers, and they had me stumped. I cut one off and was dabbing it on another flower, and there was nothing! I rubbed it on my finger, and again, nothing! So I set it down for about 5 or 10 minutes and went on to something else. When I checked again, it was a little more fluffy and I was able to use it. I can't remember if I got a seed pod or not because it was a hectic morning of making crosses, but it did get fluffy. Seems like I just got to it before it was ready. It still looked the same, but the pollen was much better.

I love that flower!

Natalie

South Hamilton, MA

This is iris pollen. We store the anthers in the frig in coin envelopes. The ae in a jar with drying material so that the pollen is not moist. We have a couple DL seedlings--thank you bees.

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, thanks for the explanation. But I am still stumped. The pollen is fluffy when I pick it but becomes hard when drying on a paper plate. Oh well, I will figure it out just about the time my daylilies have finished blooming. That's what happened when I started crossing irises. Now, I am an old hand at it. (grin). Funny but I had no problems crossing dips last summer.

Emailed Bob from Blueridge with a question I posted here. He wrote that if the pollen is on the pistil for 15 minutes before it rains, it may still grow pods. However, he stated that 1 hour is best. So, I am in the clear since I crossed in the morning and it rained late afternoon.

Likewise today. It has been so hot that the drizzle felt good . I was out in my garden weeding when it started and was not going to run into the house. I don't melt. LOL!

I tried folding a Post it note according to direction on that website. Shameful to admit but it lost me after I folded it into a tube.

One of my seelings from 2009 that is in my coldframe will open its buds any day now. I got the seed from a Daves member. The cross is FORSYTHE WRINKLES x CRINKLE. Will post photo when it is open. Another did bloom but it was a small yellow flower with faded eye. Think it got bee crossed with Blackeyed Stella. Will give it to my daughter.

Lilly

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Lilly,

Thanks for the info from Bob! That's so good to know! Looks like I'm safe on some of my crosses too! It's been raining like crazy in the late afternoons, but I do all my crosses early in the morning. Yesterday we had two hail storms that pounded everything half to death, including me! I don't melt either, but I never stay out if there is lightening. All of our summer storms usually have lots of lightening!

I just fold the Post-It in half, not into a tube. It's really easy! Also, I checked, and it's a 3 X 5, not a 3 X 6. The only place I've been able to find them is Office Depot. I hated buying them from there because they were expensive, but they work, and you get 1,000 of them! That should last me a few years! Just stick the sticky stuff to itself along the top, and then you can open it up and cut off the anthers right into it. I then fold up the side and bottom edge. It's super low-tech, and works perfectly. If I've confused you, I'd be happy to send pictures!

I can't wait to see the picture of your seedling from 2009! I've got another year to wait to see my seedlings bloom. It's been a long year so far, and the next one will be longer! I'm sure that I won't have anything fantastic, because the daylilies I had to use weren't the best, but I'll still be excited when they open. This years crosses are so much better because I've got way better daylilies this year!

Natalie

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, you are welcome. It is good to know the timing of pollen on pistils.

Yes, I would love for you to send me photos of the Post it Note. I am still stumped. Must be my age LOL. We have a OD here too.

Maybe tomorrow that seedling will bloom. I can see red shading shining through. The plant has 3 buds and it better bloom because I'm heading to Nebraska on Saturday. My granddaughter's birthday on Sunday. Will be back Tuesday. Will do some crosses tomorrow then have my water timer set to water on Saturday night and Monday for 1 hr.

I can't wait until next year either since all my new seedling are much better than those I started in 2009. A few are mine, most I bought on LA, others I got from a Dave member. Those are all in my new coldframe and doing great Most are tets.

I just bought $22 worth of ROUNDUP today. I am going on a killing spree when I get back home. I have plenty of other weedkiller but nothing beats Roundup. I am tired of waiting weeks before weeds die. I sprayed 1 week ago with Spectracide, which is usually pretty good. However weeds got ahead of me this year due to surgery I had end of May. Still have to be careful. Anyway, the weeds I sprayed are still green and in a "bowing" position. I am redoing some beds to add more irises and Daylilies and there are just too many weeds to pull. My 18 year grandson who is a big help just went off to Army bootcamp on July 22. I'm sure going to miss him but we are all so proud of him.

Lilly

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Lilly, Please thank your grandson for me for his service. My husband retired from the Navy 9 years ago, so I know all too well what a sacrifice this truly is. I hope he survives boot camp! It's tough to get through! My husband was a navigator in the Navy, but his last job was at the Navy boot camp north of Chicago. He was a drill instructor there for a short time, then ran the department that sets the kids back in training when they got into trouble. He had his hands full!

Enjoy your few days away! I sure could use a quick trip out of town myself, but I've got dips blooming like crazy now, so I don't dare go anywhere!

Here's my high-tech method of folding the Post-It notes for storing pollen in the freezer. I hope this makes sense!

Natalie

Thumbnail by nhuntley
Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Second picture, with it folded along top

Thumbnail by nhuntley
Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Folded in on the edges

Thumbnail by nhuntley
Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

This is how I mark mine. After putting the pollen inside (next picture), I put the post-it in a plastic bag, and then in a container in the freezer. I have a container for dip pollen, and another for tet pollen.

Thumbnail by nhuntley
Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Here is a picture of the pollen inside one of the opened up post-it notes. I never open the fold along the top where the sticky part is. It makes a nice little "holder" for grabbing some pollen when needed. I took this picture right after removing it from the freezer, and you can hopefully see that the pollen is loose and fluffy.

I hope this helps!

Natalie

Thumbnail by nhuntley
Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, Thanks for taking the time to post the photos. You bet it helped. Now I get it. Will have to go to OD to see if I can get some of those Post it Notes. Those I have are much smaller. Yes I see the pollen.

No bloom opened yet on my seedling. Hope tomorrow before I leave. Below is how it looks now.

We tried to talk my grandson in to joining the Navy as most of the guys in our family did. For some reason he wanted the Army. He is in S. Carolina. Ohhh....the heat there. He is doing good he wrote. His Dad warned him how hard it is. He was in the Navy but it is more or less the same in boot camp.

I sort of hate to leave my daylilies also but most of my new ones are done. Those that aren't have more buds for me to cross when I get back. My dips are still blooming strongly and they have many buds yet since they are well established.

Lilly

Thumbnail by blomma
Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

I think I'd have to dig up that seedling and take it with me! It's been a long wait, so I'd hate to miss it!

Have a good trip, and I'm glad the photos helped!

Natalie

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie there are 2 more buds as you can see so incase I miss this one. I think it will be pretty for I tried to sneak a peak and it is dark red inside. Didn't want to force opening it to far for fear of ruining it. Just a slit. LOL!

While looking at the other seedlings today, I noticed a bud deep in the center of another seedling. I missed the first set of blooms since I was in Nebraska after surgery end of May. It was an early blooming one. Evidently it just may be one that is a rebloomer. It will be awhile before that one blooms. It came from the same pod that the one we are waiting to bloom.

I am amazed over how different blooms are coming from the same pod. The one about to bloom is strong growing and taller with a thick scape. The other just setting buds is only about 10" tall and the scape is much slimmer. That present a problem for me. I don't have room in my gardens to grow every seed to adulthood since I am also crossing irises. What's an hem addict to do? Oh well, my daughter will benefit.

Lilly

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Good thing you've got a daughter that is willing to help out with spare room! I've got neighbors to help me out! My Mom only lives two blocks away, but I'd hate to go that far and camp out waiting for something to bloom!

I am also amazed at how different the blooms can be from the same pod. That's why I've really enjoyed seeing sibling photos!

Is there a registration thing for Iris like there is for Daylilies? If there is, have you registered any? I used to be so obsessed with them, but the hems have replaced them. I still have some and love them, but I've had to thin them way back to make more room.

I did harvest three iris seeds (thanks to a bee!) this morning, but don't have the slightest idea of what to do with them! I remember your info on putting them in a box on the north side of the house for the winter, but what do I do with them until then?

Natalie

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Quote from nhuntley :
Good thing you've got a daughter that is willing to help out with spare room! I've got neighbors to help me out! My Mom only lives two blocks away, but I'd hate to go that far and camp out waiting for something to bloom!


LOL!! Yes, if you camped out there, you would miss your own Daylily flowers. Think of the excersize (sp?) you would get runnig back and forth.(grin)

As far as your iris seeds, remove the seeds from the pod and place them on a paper plate to cure. They will look something like raisins when dry. Then store your iris seeds in fridge crisper until you are ready to sow them. I usually sow them in Oct-November.

There is a society for Irises just as with Daylilies. It is the American Iris Society (AIS) I am a member of that too. Cost the same as Daves and you get a beautiful 66 or so page magazine of irises and information 4 times/per year, or 3, can't remember.
I have 187 hybrid irises purchased over the years from Schreiner. I am just as addicted to them as I am with Daylilies.

I had to retype the above as my text disappeared when I hit the qoute link. If the photo is still there, it is of my iris pods. More pods in the front of my house. One pod measured 4" from top to bottom. That is a lot of seeds.

Lilly

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Darn, the photo is gone too. Here it is again.

Forgot to add, no I have not registered any Iris yet but working on it. LOL! All the pods are crosses with name varieties. I beat the bees to it.

This message was edited Jul 29, 2011 11:51 PM

Thumbnail by blomma
Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Wow! You have a lot of pods on the iris! Good thing they are blooming before the daylilies! You would be ragged! I was going to give iris hybridizing a try this year, but I honestly couldn't figure it out! I was picking and pulling on the iris, and couldn't figure out where to dab the pollen at! I took it as a sign that I should let the bees do it for now! Not that they are any good at it at my house because I only had one pod on about 100 iris (not 100 different varieties of iris)! Oh well, there is always next year, and Mom has a few pods on the iris I've planted at her house that I'm waiting on.

Thanks for the info on the iris seeds. Sounds super easy, and right now, I like super easy!

I had to duel with a big black bumblebee again this morning, and it was a tie. That guy has his radar set on my house, and he gets here earlier every morning! I got up at 6:00 am and he wasn't here yet so I was happy. By 6:30, the race was on! I was hoping to collect more pollen for storage this morning before he got to it, and I was pretty successful, but he beat me to a couple of blooms! Oh well, I saved the ones for last that I already have some of, so I let him have it without pouting too much! It's nice and cloudy this morning, so it was almost relaxing! Some mornings I'm racing as fast as I can, trying to beat the sun before it pops up over the mountains!

Natalie

South Hamilton, MA

Iris anthers are under the style arms in the center of the flower. The pollen goes on the stigmatic lip at the end of the styles. AIS web site is www.irises.org.

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

irisMA, thanks for the info, but I still couldn't find it when searching last year! I'm just not familiar enough with the parts of the iris. I'll work on my technique next year!

Natalie

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, hi I am back home and here is that seedling. I love it. It is a orange-red self with greenish yellow center and star-shaped. Height 16" blooms are 6" wide. Lightly ruffled.

Thumbnail by blomma
Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Natalie, here is where you place the pollen on iris, called the lip

Thumbnail by blomma
Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Lip with pollen

Thumbnail by blomma
South Hamilton, MA

You really should have 3 hands to do the work. I find that 2 are not as workable as they used to b. Of course, I work with the small irises not TBs.

Holladay, UT(Zone 5a)

Thanks Lilly! I don't even remember seeing a lip on the iris (or two) that I took apart. I'll be sure to check this again next Spring when it's time, and I'm sure I'll ask for help too!

Pretty flower! You must have been so excited! Is this one of your crosses? I can't wait to see my first bloom next year!

How was your trip?

Natalie

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