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Sustainable Alternatives: Honey Laundering

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Forum: Sustainable AlternativesReplies: 100, Views: 634
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greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

August 16, 2011
6:14 AM

Post #8759179

From another board:

Asian Honey, Banned in Europe, Is Flooding U.S. Grocery Shelves

A third or more of all the honey consumed in the U.S. is likely to have been smuggled in from China and may be tainted with illegal antibiotics and heavy metals.

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/08/honey-laundering/

CountryGardens

CountryGardens
Lewisville, MN
(Zone 4a)

August 16, 2011
6:22 AM

Post #8759187

Only thing I can say, buy from a local honey guy. It won't be altered & does not contain preservatives that FDA may require to be sold in a store.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 16, 2011
7:42 AM

Post #8759310

Thanks for the link greenhouse_gal - it's frightening what's in our food these days!

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

August 23, 2011
6:28 PM

Post #8773732

Dang- I sure will buy local now.
Last year I noticed bargain 'honey bears' that were cut with high fructose corn syrup.
podster
Deep East Texas, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 23, 2011
6:40 PM

Post #8773751

I use honey medicinally to build up a resistance to the local allergens.
For that purpose, only locally harvested honey is necessary.
I love it as well. It is a strong dark honey and I have a stash "hoarded" in the pantry as well as help him sell it.

I cannot believe how unaware and gullible the consuming public is.
Thanks for the link...

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2011
6:51 AM

Post #8774333

sallyg - as long as the label says the contents have high fructose corn syrup added, then it's okay. Otherwise it's considered and adulteration and is illegal.

Personally, I haven't consumed any high frutcose corn syrup, or any other sweetener since 2005 and I feel so much better after getting all that stuff out of my system.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2011
9:09 AM

Post #8774550

Well, LOL, its 'ok' but I for one want honey in my honey, and will pay for real honey and don't want a $1 bear of corn-honey.

What, no honey for our Honeybee??

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 25, 2011
11:53 AM

Post #8776335

sallyg - I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic in 2005 - so no more honey for me (sigh)

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

August 25, 2011
12:03 PM

Post #8776354

Bummer- but if you feel better without it- yay!

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 26, 2011
7:23 AM

Post #8777777

sallyg - actually, I didn't know how bad I felt until I gave up sweeteners. Now I just use a single package of "Truvia" on my shredded wheat in the morning.

But life isn't all bad - thanks to my vegetable garden, I eat lots and lots of fresh vegetables!
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 12, 2011
10:34 PM

Post #8927343

Chinese Honey is Horrific, and they sell it everywhere in New Jersey. Sorry to hear that Honeybee. I won't even eat the Local Honey, all the Farmer's here are Monsanto now,I get mine from NH, or Oregon.

CountryGardens

CountryGardens
Lewisville, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 13, 2011
5:54 AM

Post #8927511

I'll bet Monsanto is in NH & Oregon. You have to cut out honey!

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 13, 2011
10:13 AM

Post #8927809

I used to sell honey to local health food stores when I lived in South Florida. If you find honey in such a store that has a LOCAL address on the label, it should be 100% pure honey.

However, there is no guarantee that the bees have not been fed regular table sugar! (sigh)

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

December 13, 2011
11:58 AM

Post #8928014

It looks like NPR just did a piece on honey laundering, so it's becoming much more widely-known. We buy our honey from local people, and I don't think they do Monsanto products; they are strictly small-time.

CountryGardens

CountryGardens
Lewisville, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 13, 2011
1:45 PM

Post #8928136

I think the person who mentioned Monsanto was talking about bees working plants that come from GMO seeds.

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

December 13, 2011
3:09 PM

Post #8928239

I know that. I don't think this area is a big one for Monsanto crops.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

December 13, 2011
3:36 PM

Post #8928279

I'm also fortunate that there are few GMO crops in my county, at least until they engineer tobacco. This area could be considered "agricultural" but in reality it is a lot of young Angus grazing on the hillsides because most land is too steep for row crops. The GMO crops I do see are mostly Pioneer feed corn in 2-3 acre patches.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 14, 2011
8:11 AM

Post #8929173

One good thing about living within the city limits of Charlotte - there are very few vegetable gardeners around, so I'm not plagued with cross pollination or many of the usual bad bugs. The bad thing is that I don't see may honeybees :(
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 15, 2011
11:29 PM

Post #8931632

Honeybee I'm very active Politically, and I know it's a no-no here... so I will use my words wisely...I have been fighting against the disappearence of Honeybee's for three years now all the way to the White House, and have had some success...I went to Local Farmer's drove right up their driveway and asked them flat out what seed they used, and unfortunately was told by most they where under contract they couldn't get out of with Monsanto, the bright note was I found one of the last Organic Farm's in Southern New Jersey, about 1 mile from my House. Looking at the Demographic's of my area, (He near talked my ear off, and I loved every minute of it...LOL) he's about 15 miles from the nearest Round-Up farm, so I'm assuming his crops and Honey are good, I don't think a Honeybee can fly 15 miles in one day and get back to the hive, especially if they are weak from pesticide and herbicides, I'll never forget that day that little honeybee died on my finger, or how few of them I've seen since then...

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

December 16, 2011
4:58 AM

Post #8931716

MrPappy... how wonderful to find an organic farm so close to home!

I rail against GMO's all the time because I write about food, health and gardening off site.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 16, 2011
8:30 AM

Post #8931931

MrPappy - honeybees usually forage as close to their home as possible, but will go as far a 5 miles if needed. Any further and they consume the nectar they have collected for their own sustinance. Of course, they fly in a straight line, so one cannot take into account the twists and turns one might take in a car between point A and point B.

The day that honeybee died - was it really cold outside? If so, she might not have died, but merely fell into a stupor. My memory is a bit fuzzy regarding the temperature that honeybees fly, but I think it's around 65F. On cold days, honeybees will not leave their hive. My own bees used to alight on the hood of my car during cool weather so they could pick up enough warmth in their little bodies so they could fly again.

If you ever see a honeybee crawling around on the floor on a chilly day (especially if she is in the shade), let her crawl into the palm of your hand. She should do so willingly because she will sense the warmth. Then let her crawl onto a warm surface, like the hood of a car, or a bar-b-que grill that's sitting in the sun -- anywhere she can warm up. She will not sting you, unless she gets squeezed.

Bumblebees fly at lower temperatures, but I don't remember what that temperature is.

ALL honeybees seen in your garden are FEMALES.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 17, 2011
11:28 PM

Post #8933988

It was a Beautiful warm summer day Honeybee, and it was the tiniest Honeybee I've ever seen, Frail and small sitting on a Cuke Blossum, when she stopped moving around , I put my Finger under her, and she fell out of the Flower onto my Finger, she attempted to fly it was the last thing she did...and so I questioned what would make the Honeybees disappear, I've been on a Torrent since with the Gov't. the Agency's and anyone in earshot... Learning Daily, about the Food, the Meat, the Water, it's Horrific, Sorry I didn't mean to go there here...but know I'm in the Fight, to stop this...
Honeybee, I want to start a Hive in my backyard, of Honeybee's, I have Purchased Hyssop which in my area is the biggest attractant to Honeybee's that I've seen over the last four year's, any other thought's you have would Help tremendously...
Even when I was a Child I was alway's attracted to Honeybee's they went about there business not bothering anyone, a pleasure to watch, and I miss them.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

December 18, 2011
4:51 AM

Post #8934059

PappyG, do you know about The Great Sunflower Project?

The Great Sunflower Project
http://www.greatsunflower.org

I wrote an article about them and their Colony Collapse Disorder work a couple of years ago:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2457/

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 19, 2011
9:00 AM

Post #8935479

MrPappy - before you purchase anything for honeybees, please read an authorative book about them.

Hives MUST be registered with your State. There is an annual fee. The State Beekeeper MUST inspect ALL beehives.

My Favorite book on honeybees is "The Hive and the Honey Bee"

http://www.amazon.com/Hive-Honey-Bee-Beekeeping-Langstroth/dp/0684147904/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324313897&sr=1-4

This has become a collector's item - and no, my copy is not for sale ^:-)^
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 19, 2011
8:06 PM

Post #8936381

darius I read both articles Thank You... and I had already purchased a lot of Sunflower seed's for the coming year I have a South facing Border Garden on a Fenceline I plan to plant them in, which butts up against the East Garden.
Honeybee, I'm not a big fan of regulation's on how Mother Nature react's to my Garden's or how Politician's and Corporation's want to squeeze me for another Dollar to Support their Evil Way's, do they Regulate me if I have a Yellowjacket or wasp nest on my Property, whether I have Birdsnest's in my tree's, do they pay for the infestation of Stink Bug's because they are Prolific when sprayed with Round-Up, do they Tax me because a Random Turtle showed up in my Koi Pond, or a Chipmunk under my deck...??? No so to Hell with the lot of them, I'll buy more Hyssop, Plant some Sunflower's and make a box, and see what happen's, If Mother Nature decides to Grace me with a Honeybee Hive, then so be it, if not I'll figure something else out...LOL
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 19, 2011
8:09 PM

Post #8936386

Just one more comment Greenhouse Girl, I'm not sure what part of S. Jersey you live in I'm from Glassboro, and a lot of the Farmer's around here have already sold out, and the ones that are left , are All Monsanto, except for one.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 20, 2011
9:00 AM

Post #8936904

MrPappy - the regulations are in place to protect the bees.

Honeybees can suffer from something called American Foul Brood which is extremely contagious to other bees. If your bees contracted this disease, it would quickly spread to other bees in the area. Also, bees are now inflicted with two kinds of mites - these too infect other bees.The mites crawl off the bees when they land on flowers, and are picked up by the next bee visiting that flower. If that is not one of your bees, then the mite is transferred to another beekeeper's hive.

The reason I gave up beekeeping is because I did not want to have to deal with the poisons needed to treat mites that had been brought into my hives.

Here's a link that explains these, and other pests/diseases that plague honeybees:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_the_honey_bee
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 22, 2011
12:20 AM

Post #8939006

It's being caused by Corporation's like Round-UP, Bayer, and Dow Chemical's...I didn't vote to entitle any of these Corporation's, to Create their Product's and they where totally ignored by agency's developed to Protect us...The FDA, USDA, EPA, and the DEP, ( Question: why do we need two agency's, suggested as environmental Protection Agency's
who Protect No One, while we pay their Salary..?? and enforce ridiculous rules to allow Criminal Corporation's to Incriminate Citizen's that grow a garden... This world is in Hell, Vote your conscience... it's incredible to me...
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 22, 2011
12:42 AM

Post #8939009

Honeybee, I'm sorry for Posting that on your wall ... my Frustration is enormous with our current state of affair's in this Country, as a Veteran, it appalls me,,,and I try my best not to post a negative on this site,,, surely I'll get booted...My Purpose is to make this something better than what I lived through...to leave behind a generation of Healthy Children, and a better Government than the one currently in Place... If I can achieve that... I will Die a Happy Man...
I teach my children Daily how to nurture soil, and seed, some from what I learn here, and other's. How to be self sustainable, through Rainwater Collection, and Natural Fertilizer, whether it be compost, manure or peelings from my Kitchen, the comfort I get when I come here cannot be measured, Once again I'm apologizing, the time has come for Sleep, and my mouth doesn't know how to stop, I'm Fervent in my Belief's, and I can't Help that, Dream Sweet Honeybee,

This message was edited Dec 22, 2011 1:19 PM
iraqvet08
Fitzgerald, GA

December 23, 2011
10:42 PM

Post #8941196

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I plan to raise bees in greenhouses. The bees will be housed in a sealed bio-dome. The greenhouses will be linked to allow the bees access from their hives to the greenhouses which allows That way I know 100% what the bees have gotten into and I can 100% guarantee the quality of the honey. I will use non- GMO, non- hybrid plants in the greenhouse. The plants will be feed with fish waste. The fish will eventually be fed 100% from the greenhouses. Water for the fish will be well water which has been monitored and filtered.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 27, 2011
8:52 PM

Post #8945020

Need a Roomate...or 3 ????
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 28, 2011
10:44 PM

Post #8946214

and Welcome Home...

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 29, 2011
7:45 AM

Post #8946446

iraqvet08 - you will not be able to sustain a full-sized honeybee hive in a greenhouse. You might be able to keep native bees inside.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 30, 2011
9:28 PM

Post #8948503

Well I'm Happy to say through Local Council we just shut down a 300 acre Monsanto Farm,
through a Federal Clean-Up Grant, Field's were Burnt, they'll be turned over and tested over the next 5 Year's, it's about 15 miles from here and it was the closest one I had.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 30, 2011
9:40 PM

Post #8948508

Honeybee on your Dec. 20th Post, about the regulator's regulating, there are no other Hive's near me except for the one's at the Organic Farm I mentioned near me, I use nothing on my Property that isn't Organic, I've learned enough over the last four year's, that I know I would not in any way endanger a Hive, to be absolutely Positive , I will go to his Farm and ask him tomorrow, the way thing's are going lately, he will Probably give me a Hive and a few Pointer's...
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

December 30, 2011
9:46 PM

Post #8948512

This is how you get rid of Monsanto Round-Up on a Local Level, I pressured Council got some Backing, said we don't want this anymore, along with numerous e-mail's to Congressmen Andrew's, no more Round-Up ready crops...at Least one down...
SoFlaCommercial
West Palm Beach, FL
(Zone 10b)

December 30, 2011
10:30 PM

Post #8948529

Congratulations on your victory, Pappy G!

did this make your local papers that you can put up a link for?

CountryGardens

CountryGardens
Lewisville, MN
(Zone 4a)

December 31, 2011
6:03 AM

Post #8948678

How do you shut down a farm ? Do you mean it's out of production, period.
What do you mean field's were burnt ? Turned over & tested for 5 years. You mean no crops grown for 5 years.
If that happened in the corn belt, the world would starve.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 31, 2011
7:41 AM

Post #8948752

MrPappyG - asking your neighbor about honeybees is a good idea. If his farm is within a couple of miles, you don't need to keep bees on your own property, his bees will pollinate your crops. If you want fresh honey, perhaps your neighbor will sell it to you. I used to have neighbors that purchased honey from me.

It's great having an organic farm so close to your home.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 2, 2012
5:24 PM

Post #8952011

So Fla...this is so far under the rug, the only thing posted is a new sign on the property, I think I will take a Picture of it tomorrow, and post it...
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 2, 2012
5:37 PM

Post #8952031

Country Garden's, the soil will be tested for Five Year's and no Crop's are allowed to be Grown there, it is a Farm that was next to a watershed that comes under the Preservation Act of New Jersey, through the County MUA, we had it placed on the State EPA Clean-up list, which is kind of sideway's, because of the Leeching of Unknown Chemical's into the watershed but it's working I'm sure there will be Lawsuit's for Decades, but they don't grow GMO's Now...
Country Garden's ... not if we all grow our own, the "ONLY" corn Product's my Family eat's is what I grow, I just can't acquire a Taste For Round-Up, No Corn Oil, Corn Syrup, Corn Meal, no soybean Product's whatsoever, no Canola oil, and so on...

This message was edited Jan 2, 2012 9:46 PM

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 3, 2012
10:53 AM

Post #8952868

MrPappyG - we, too, have limited our food buying to exclude GMO's. If a product has the "Organic" seal it should be safe. As far as I know there is only one sweet corn that it gentically modified.

Anything that contains "sugar" is probably from sugar beets - 98% of which are genetically modified. However "cane sugar" or "cane juice" is from sugar cane and should be free of GMOs. Personally, I use Stevia as my only sweetener.

The GMOs hardest to avoid are those fed to the animals we consume.

CountryGardens

CountryGardens
Lewisville, MN
(Zone 4a)

January 3, 2012
2:03 PM

Post #8953142

Cane sugar is grown in Cuba, Porto Rica, & other off coast places. I bet they really regulate things there!

We were informed last night that one of the growers from our Farmers Market is quitting. She was doing organic & a CSA. Her vegetables were very high priced & she always went home with things when everybody else sold out. If people want to do organic or whatever, they best start by figuring out that they are not going to get rich off the consumers.

Sweet corn, not GMO. There are thousands of acres grown for canning companies around here. They used to spray for ear worms by airplane. I haven't seen a plane for quit a few years. I would imagine they are using the corn that has built in resistance.

I know the big corn grower at our market doesn't worry about worms any more.

Personally, I would rather eat GMO crops than the ones sprayed with every chemical known to man. Some of the bug killers are terrible!

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

January 3, 2012
2:49 PM

Post #8953249

Florida is the largest producer of sugarcane in the United States, followed by Louisiana, Hawaii, and Texas in order of production. Sugarcane production accounts for 50 percent of domestic sugar production. (Sugar beets are grown in Minnesota, North Dakota, Idaho, Michigan, California, and in six other states.)

In 2008 Florida produced 1.55 million U.S. tons of raw sugar on approximately 400,000 acres and was valued at approximately $450 million.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/sc032


HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 4, 2012
7:52 AM

Post #8954071

There are areas in South Florida, where one can drive for miles and see sugar cane growing from horizon to horizon in every direction. Not a great place to experience a flat tire (or worse.)
SoFlaCommercial
West Palm Beach, FL
(Zone 10b)

January 7, 2012
6:07 PM

Post #8958583

HoneybeeNC wrote:There are areas in South Florida, where one can drive for miles and see sugar cane growing from horizon to horizon in every direction. Not a great place to experience a flat tire (or worse.)


...but a great place to dispose of a body - LOL!

(well, that, and the canal systems in the western part of the counties)

not that i'm speaking from personal experience - lot of stuff in news, and nephew's a deputy, so i hear things. :)

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 8, 2012
3:29 PM

Post #8959610

SFC -
Quoting:but a great place to dispose of a body


Alligator bait!

(When we lived in South Florida, we used to say that every time we saw a lost dog/cat flyer - now we're in NC we say: "Coyote bait")
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 10, 2012
7:00 AM

Post #8961669

I try to watch out for high fructose corn syrup since I am diabetic. Now HFC is being identified as a major cause of insulin resistance and rising incidence of diabetes in this country.

On a whim I bought a jar of 'Aunt Nellies sweet & sour Red Cabbage' at the store w ithout reading the label.

Ingredients: RED CABBAGE, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, WATER, VINEGAR, SALT, APPLESAUCE, CITRIC ACID.

Ugh! Expensive garbage to throw away.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

January 10, 2012
7:32 AM

Post #8961702

To make matters worse, they are now calling HFCS "natural sugar"...

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 10, 2012
9:14 AM

Post #8961843

Does that conceal what it is, or is there a clearer description elsewhere on the label? I'd think they'd have to be fairly specific for people with corn allergies.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

January 10, 2012
11:41 AM

Post #8962045

Dunno... just something I remember reading somewhere and didn't write down.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 10, 2012
11:59 AM

Post #8962063

gloria125 - I, too, am diabetic, although I have such tight control that if I walked into a doctor's office today and had a blood sugar test, it would come back "normal".

I thought HFCS was supposed to be labeled "corn syrup" now. When I found out that HFCS can cause "Non-alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver" I dumped everything in the house containing it!

Personally, I avoid every type of sugar possible, except Stevia.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 10, 2012
3:51 PM

Post #8962432

Yeah -- stevia for me too. I haven't got the diabetes controlled completely yet but Im working on re-activating insulin receptors. Mostly though I get low blood sugar, and if I ate any refined carbs it would go too high.

Its a shock though when you think you are eating cabbage, you are actually eat HFCS which could upset your physiology for days. Why is this in our food when it is poison to so many people?

CountryGardens

CountryGardens
Lewisville, MN
(Zone 4a)

January 10, 2012
8:17 PM

Post #8962800

Cheap!
Our government is all about cheap food.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 11, 2012
8:16 AM

Post #8963265

gloria125 - I have learned to be an avid label reader, even of products I purchase frequently. You'd be surprised how often the recipes change.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

January 11, 2012
8:36 PM

Post #8964303

General public is pretty hepped up on cheap food too.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 11, 2012
11:20 PM

Post #8964395

Truth is FDA Deputy Commissioner Michael Taylor, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and a Hoard of other ex Monsanto Lawyer's who head up all of the Government Agency's that are supposed to Protect us (The EPA, DEP, USDA, FDA, Supreme Court,)
All appointed by Bush, are passing law's on a Daily Basis to Allow Monsanto to have Carte Blanche without any testing whatsoever.
There are Scientist's all over the World who have done testing and found Product's produced by continual Round-Up Spraying that have mutated beyond belief, are causing women to abort Pregnancy's in midterm, CAFO Cow's to abort Fetuses in midterm and DIE, There is a French Study of Professor's with Doctorate's that say not only Does Round-Up, Kill nearly everything that eat's it, that grow's in it, it has created a New Specie's of Viruses.
If you consider that Monsanto is the most hated Corporation in the WORLD, except in China and the USA, Imagine why everyone is Sick, you have a Chemical that dissolves DNA boundary's, nothing know's what it is anymore...They're banned in Mexico, and 17 Euro Nation's...
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 12, 2012
5:42 AM

Post #8964521

I guess Im into cheap food, too. The cheapest food for the highest quality. Being vegetarian cuts food costs way down. Also, I learned a long time ago to cook from scratch -- beans are very cheap.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 12, 2012
8:56 AM

Post #8964712

gloria125

Beans, beans, good for your heart
Beans, beans, they make you (rhymes with heart)

It's always windy in our house ^:-)^

A health food store opened near here last October and they carry a number of different organic dried beans. When my hubby walked out of there for the first time he said he tought he had died and gone to heaven.

I learned recently that beans are loaded with antioxidants - another good reason to eat them.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 12, 2012
9:26 AM

Post #8964754

If you eat beans you don't need meat. All beans, seeds, and nuts are protein and they are likely to have omega 3 fats, antioxidants, and lots of other nutrients. Afterall they contain what it makes to grow a new bean stalk or a tree.

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 12, 2012
9:48 AM

Post #8964796

I don't think beans are a complete protein, though, which is why so many cultures serve them with some sort of grain and perhaps a bit of cheese to add the amino acids that they lack.

Papaya tablets help break down the gases that cause flatulence, btw.



This message was edited Jan 12, 2012 1:48 PM

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 12, 2012
10:01 AM

Post #8964825

greenhouse_gal - you are correct. As far as I know Soybeans are complete as is Quinoa seed.

You do have to soak beans for several hours to remove the phytic acid

This link (there are many others) explains phytic acid better than I can:

http://www.phyticacid.org/

Personally, I eat very few beans, but my hubby eats them every day.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 12, 2012
10:50 AM

Post #8964882

I usually don't soak beans. I clean them by rinsing in water. They often contain small rocks so you have to "count" them into a pan of clear water. Rinse then pressure cook to pre-cook the beans. Drain off the liquid and use the beans in a recipe. A bay leaf or two can be added when you re-cook the beans.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 12, 2012
10:57 AM

Post #8964890

gloria125 - it is important to pre-soak beans and discard the rinse water to remove the phytic acid. Phytic acid prevents your body from absorbing certain minerals, including calcium, magnesium and zinc.

If you do a search on phytic acid you will see...
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 12, 2012
11:16 AM

Post #8964907

The pre-cooking and draining off the liquid accomplishes the same thing. Some people bring the beans to a boil for 10 minutes then drain, and repeat this several times, depending upon the age of beans. Not necessary to soak overnight if you do this.

Also I rarely get gas from beans, but then I have been eating them as a main staple for more than 30 years. Once you develop healthy intestinal bacteria from eating a lot of plant fiber there really is no gas problem.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 13, 2012
8:08 AM

Post #8965964

gloria125 -
Quoting: Once you develop healthy intestinal bacteria from eating a lot of plant fiber there really is no gas problem.


I don't experience gas, either. Although I don't eat many beans, I do eat lots of other fiber-rich foods.
SoFlaCommercial
West Palm Beach, FL
(Zone 10b)

January 14, 2012
10:12 PM

Post #8968139

I have VERY low blood counts - have to have prescription-strength vitamins (yes, there is such a thing).

doctor said it's not the meds doing it. I do have a history of thallasemia which is some sort of low platelet disease. still getting worked up for that.

but in my research, i saw an article (can't find it now, though - sorry) that stated that if you ate vegetable-based proteins, all these nutrients were added to your body, but a diet based on animal-based protein actually SUCKS OUT NUTRIENTS LIKE CALCIUM (i'm due for a bone scan, soon, too), etc.


So, I really need to get my beans going...

(and learn how to cook them)

have a nice day!
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 14, 2012
11:30 PM

Post #8968162

If your eating Soybean's your probably eating Monsanto's/Round-Up version of them...


This message was edited Jan 17, 2012 1:54 AM
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 15, 2012
6:51 AM

Post #8968393

actualy the main tofu mfg guarantees 'no GMOs' whatever that means. Or you can buy 25 lbs of organic soybeans at
Amazon -- get a soymilk maker and you can make any soy product your heart desires.

I think most American diets suffer from lack of variety. People tend to eat the same things from day to day, and at any given meal there are only a few food items that are eaten. I noticed that when I was invited to an old farm family's house here for dinner there were 15 or 20 dishes, a little of this and a little of that. Plus, everything was made from scratch and home-grown. That farmer just turned 101.

This message was edited Jan 15, 2012 8:52 AM

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 16, 2012
7:21 AM

Post #8969725

gloria -
Quoting:I think most American diets suffer from lack of variety


I agree. I grew up with home grown vegetables so have enjoyed a varied diet since childhood.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 16, 2012
8:56 AM

Post #8969872

The reason you need a varied diet is because many nutrients (the materials are cells are programmed to use) work synergestically -- they are orchestrated. If you eat a no carb diet for example, you are short changing your own cell nutrition. You need Fats, Carbohydrates (complex, not simple), and proteins at each meal. And within those categories you need to choose a wide variety from day to day, from meal to meal.

I just read about a "new" program for insulin resistance -- combining foods. Eating protein with each carb serving improves insulin resistance. I would say add a small amount of quality fat also. An avacado comes that way.
SoFlaCommercial
West Palm Beach, FL
(Zone 10b)

January 16, 2012
8:50 PM

Post #8970730

I know this is sacrilege, especially coming from Florida, but I DON'T LIKE Mangoes or Avocadoes! The flesh is too slimy. I don't even like guacamole dip. Although I had a KILLER mango margarita at a hole-in-the-wall mexican restaurant once...

So, any ideas on overcoming this? I hear they're both great for you, and great for juicing, which is a recent health/diet trend I'm reading about down here.

oh, and wish me luck - finally harvested some komatsuna - spinach mustard tonight - going to make it for lunch tomorrow. another sacrilege, i'm sure, but I've never had mustard greens - anyone have any good recipes?

wish me luck!
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 16, 2012
9:32 PM

Post #8970745



This message was edited Jan 17, 2012 2:08 AM
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 16, 2012
9:33 PM

Post #8970746

Sorry I'm Tiptoeing again...
Anyway SoFla, (I'm a Chef), Mustard Green's Steep them in Chicken Stock , add 2 Clove's Garlic for each 1 lb of Mustard Green's, Salt Pepper, and a Little Red Pepper Flake, if you like you can add a Smoked Ham Hock now, cook for 3 Hour's, Drain most of the Liquid, add Two Teaspoon's of butter per Pound, Taste add sugar or Honey to taste, I hope you like it...
and make sure the Mango's aren't from China...
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 17, 2012
8:13 AM

Post #8971218

SoFla: Avacadoes are usually described as "buttery" not slimey! To each his own. The komatsuna sounds great -- I hope you find some great recipes for it. The one Mr PappyG describes is the classic for the south. I tend to shred any greens I have and drop them in the 'soup of the day'.

"So, any ideas on overcoming this?"

Do you mean your dislike of avacadoes, or insulin resistance?

If, insulin resistance, high fiber -- eat the whole fruit and vegetables instead of the juice. Eat fish or take omega 3 fish oil supplements. Eat lots of beans, seeds, and nuts for protein and healthy fat. No simple carbs. Eat whole grains -- that means you can see the shape of the grains in the food -- not something sold as "whole wheat". Learn to cook from scratch. Eat a wide variety of fruits and vegetables--not just the same ol' every day.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 17, 2012
8:28 AM

Post #8971243

SFC - I know what you can do with mangoes and avocados - SEND THEM TO ME! Hubby and I love them both. The number one thing I miss about my Florida garden is our Brewster Mango tree!
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 17, 2012
1:11 PM

Post #8971581

Avacadoes. I used to ride on my bike through an avacado orchard on my way to school at UCSB. They were the huge guatemala avacadoes, and occasionally one would "accidentally" fall into my bike basket. I learned to love them. Not so fond of the little fuerte types. By the time they get in stores here they ARE slimey. Not how they were meant to be.

Avacado, tomato, and bacon sandwich on sprouted whole grain bread. A hefty lunch.
SoFlaCommercial
West Palm Beach, FL
(Zone 10b)

January 17, 2012
1:14 PM

Post #8971585

I meant getting over my squeamishness of avocado and mangoes.

I'm having a problem getting any bloody beans to grow down here - actually, they're growing, but no beans thus far. my scarlet runner beans have been in the ground for two months, and minimal growth and no beans. hopefully if it warms up, it'll take off.

but I don't think I'll be able to grow enough produce to sustain me, let alone the family. I started this garden to help with grocery bills, but so far, no real change, except for salad greens, but come March, it'll be too hot for lettuce.

greenhouse_gal

greenhouse_gal
Southern NJ
United States
(Zone 7a)

January 17, 2012
2:00 PM

Post #8971650

Beans are often sluggish until the weather heats up. Then you'll see them start growing like mad. I assume that the soil has fertilizer, organic or otherwise?

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

January 18, 2012
8:29 AM

Post #8972736

I started with Komatsuna last year and love it, and mustard too, cold hardy and doing well in my zone 8 ish south bed.

I chop the avocado and mix it with salsa as a chip dip.

Glad I checked back in, lots of good food talk. Variety goes back to the way our moms always planned meals, and before that more variety would be how we lived for many many years as hunter gatherers and then as farmers who needed to supplement any way they could.

MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 18, 2012
10:06 PM

Post #8973671

I recently Fell upon a page about a Dr. Wright, who claims to have cured Type II Diabetes, before you start I know, but he's doing it with extracts from Plant's, that we all should include in our Diet anyway, He's a Harvard SuperMicroBioligist, I have searched the entire web I think to find something bad/wrong about this man, I have found one site that said he can't hurt you, and it was a Pharmaceutical Company, Go Figure.
I already know your thinking I've Lost my Mind, this man is just trying to sell something and I guess he is, trying to sell his extract's, but I really can't find anyone to say anything bad about this man. I've looked everywhere and he's been around for 30 Year's I think.
I am not making any Claim to his credibility, but I wish my Mother who suffered from Type II Diabetes had an Opportunity to at least try his Ideas before she passed.
I have had no contact with him or his bulletin, I just recently found this, and was wondering if any of you had ever heard of him.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 19, 2012
6:43 AM

Post #8973906

Mr PappyG. There are several books out now on reversing type II diabetes (and making Type I better) all advocate plant based diets. What they mostly do when you put the programs into effect is cause low blood sugar -- initially anyway.

I found this website which is devoted to the concept of phytotherapy. It is for women but some of the programs would apply to men too if they have hormone based diseases such as insulin resistance. They are s elling their program also, but you don't r eally need it. Lots of good articles on this site.

Here is one which defines the concept of phytotherapy.

http://www.womentowomen.com/menopause/phytotherapy.aspx

My own training is in anthropology. And the more I study diets and nutrition to deal with my own TII diabetes- thyroid, adrenal skewed health, I am learning that a healthy diet for the human body is the one I outlined above -- plant based, high fiber, lots of fruits & vegetables emphasizing beans, seeds, nuts. That is what the human body is tuned to at a cellular level and those are the foods that would have been available in the environments that humans have lived in over the mellienna. We are not separate from our environment -- we are part and parcel of it. And our environment does include our own human ancestry.

When we try to isolate ourselves in artificial environments -- we don't do so well. The best we can do for ourselves now is to grow our own food, and preserve what we can for the off-seasons. And advocate for sane policies from our governments to keep our commercial food supply safe and wholesome.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 19, 2012
8:18 AM

Post #8974019

Personally, I have eliminated all sugars (except stevia), white flour, white rice and white potatoes from my diet and eat everything else in moderation.

It was a revelation to me when the "brain fog" lifted and I was able to think clearly for more than a few minutes at a time. I still have a little numbness in my toes, but the pains in my legs have gone, and I have lots more energy.

I gave up testing supplies about two years ago because my glucose readings were always in the "normal" range, so I figured why spend money unneccessarily. My last A1C test was 5.4 - which, for those not familiar with this, is very good - my hubby tested at 5.8 and he's not diabetic - although I think he probably is because he can't feel his feet or hands because of nerve damage.

gloria Do you think our ancient ancestors had access to beans, grains and nuts? I dwell on this subject frquently, because I agree with you that we evolved to eat a certain diet and we should live as close to that original diet as possible. They did not cook their food. Modern humans (us) cannot digest uncooked beans and grains. As to nuts, I thought they were "New World" - except, perhaps, Brazil nuts.

I wish the environment had not changed so much over the millennia where our ancestors evolved so we could study their culture and nutrition.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 19, 2012
9:01 AM

Post #8974087

Beans and grains are essentially seeds. Seeds Im sure humans ate since the beginning of time. Growing beans and grains of course dates to the beginning of agriculture. But eating parched seeds probably dates to the earliest use of fire -- to the pre-human stage of existence. Since our earliest ancestors were probably arboreal creatures -- Im sure they noticed the nuts in the trees where they lived.

A 5.4 A1.c is very good. My last one was 6.2 so you can see I have a ways to go. My endocrinologist says anything under 7 is considered good, medically.

Many people are insulin r esistant even though they are not technically diabetic. Usually if the waistline is the largest circumference of the body, its time to take action. Neuropathic toes are not fun, especially in the winter. Hard to keep feet warm when they are not working right.

By the way the earliest hominids I believe are now dated to 24 million years ago. That's a lot of time and generations to program the cells we are all made of.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 19, 2012
9:37 AM

Post #8974132

gloria125 - I never thought about pre-humans eating scorched seeds - that makes sense. I've often thought that our love of bar-b-cue comes from them eating animals that died in forest fires.

My hubby weighs about 110lbs (not a typo) so an enlarged waist is not his problem. I keep nagging him to eat more!

My waistline is 33" - an inch larger than a year ago! I need to get back into the garden to work off the 7lbs I've gained since being layed-off from work in September of 2010. Daughter and I have been walking the dogs around the neighborhood for an hour each evening since the beginning of the year.

Is there a test for insulin resistance? I think my hubby should get a diagnosis. His neurologist says it's "idiopathic" but no definitive tests have been done.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

January 19, 2012
9:57 AM

Post #8974161

Quoting:Beans and grains are essentially seeds


Yep they are, and as such, they grow with a noxious and often toxic protective coating to discourage animals (and us) from eating them. Survival of the seeds to reproduce is, after all, the goal.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 19, 2012
10:05 AM

Post #8974175

Hi Darius! Honeybee. Here are some tests for insulin resistance:

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/conditions/insulin-resistance?start=1

Also I think most people get more insulin resistant as they age -- unless they remain very active and maintain good muscle mass.

Dogs are great excercise companions. My little greyhound is a race track reject. Im sure if I followed her around more I would have less problems! There used to be a dog race track near here. Recently the state closed it down, putting hundreds of people out of work in this poverty area. Also, the shelters are overloaded with dog track rejects. Adopt a dog -- and run!

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 19, 2012
10:29 AM

Post #8974206

Darius is correct, beans, grains and seeds are coated with phytic acid which interferes with the absorbsion of calcium and other minerals. Which is why they should be soaked or sprouted before being cooked or consumed.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 19, 2012
11:15 AM

Post #8974266

Gloria - hubby and my LDL, HDL and A1C tests are in the normal range. If I didn't tell a doctor that I was a diabetic, s/he would know it by the current way tests are conducted. Yet, I have a disease that one day, if not properly managed, will kill me! There has to be better way.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 19, 2012
11:24 AM

Post #8974282

I agree.

I read somewhere that there is now a test that measures insulin directly, instead of glucose. I can't find it now and I can't remember where I read this. But that measurement would give you can exact result of when you are starting to over-produce insulin which will later become insulin resistance.

I think I saw this on You tube. There are a bunch of videos on 'Reverse Diabetes" (Dr. Richter, and a bunch on cinnamon use are the one's I looked at this morning). They mentioned that a person in their 20s could be tested by this method to predict if they would become insulin resistant later.

This message was edited Jan 19, 2012 1:30 PM
Indy
Alexandria, IN
(Zone 6a)

January 19, 2012
1:34 PM

Post #8974498

I was wondering for those with diabetes if they have tried a daily sprinkling of cinnamin. Also there are herbals like gymnema sylvestre which are claimed to even help renew pancrea cells.

I sweeten tea with stevia. I get it fairly economically from Swanson Health products in a jar.
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 19, 2012
3:43 PM

Post #8974687

There are a number of herbs and supplements that appear to help diabetes. I use a supplement form of cinnamon with chromium. Magnesium, Copper, and Zinc can be important. I use stevia, but Im trained off using much sweetener. Alpha lipoic acid is an important supplement. Also Gingko biloba for circulation impairment ( of brains and toes), and siberian gensing.

There are probably many more, but few have been tested.

Some work by lowering blood glucose -- like cinnamon. Others work by improving insuling resistance and helping to re verse it. Others are simply antioxidants to correct misprograming of cells due to dna damage.

Im sure we will learn a lot more over the next few years. Herbal medicine is as old as the ancient civilizations, but testing of plants for use in phytotherapy is probably only about 10 years old.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 19, 2012
11:46 PM

Post #8975024

gloria although I agree with most of what you Post, the Information already exist's, I believe. My Mother was a Devout Naturalist and earned her Degree in Natural Medicine, along with a PHD in Conservative Medicine in the 1970's, even back then Most Medical Finding's were Skewed, toward's the Medical Field, and the Pharmaceutical's, only to Find out 30 Years Later the Finding's were True.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

January 20, 2012
5:34 AM

Post #8975128

This is all very interesting.
What fascinates me is, how did ancient peoples makes food discoveries such as using lye /ash to make hominy, or to boil beans and make them edible (kidney beans) Herbal medicines that now have scientific backing...So many plant items that have benefits that you can't see immediately...how did they figure these things out? I personally like to think that being ADD was a benefit , the kind who would try things, notice different things, and always like to think of something different or what if.

Sorry, kind of a side thought, pls continue...
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 20, 2012
6:39 AM

Post #8975207

PappyG. True the information already exists about the effacacy of herbs, but not tested in the fomats needed to determine the appropriate dose, interaction with other drugs e.g. diabetic drugs, and possible side effects, allergic reactions, etc. Those kinds of trials are now being run on scores of traditional herbal remedies. Also, these trials would specify the preparation of the drug -- leaf or root extract and the appropriate concentrations needed for the the intended affect. Now when you buy an herbal supplement, you cannot be sure that it is standardized in any way.

sallyg: I think we tend to think that people in the past, agricultural people, or even people in foreign countries did not have the intellegent inquisitive brains that we have ourselves. When in fact, they had the same ability -- perhaps even more freedom to explore their environments and adapt whatever was useful to their daily lives. Afterall, these are the humans that built us genetically into what we have today. In some cases they were far superior to what we have, because of what we have lost. We have lost family traditions for example, we have lost most of the natural environment, and we have lost our connection with animals. By that I mean we only allow the animals around us that are useful to us. We are not now just another voice in the forest! That loses for us a great deal of the curiosity, awe, and wonder that our ancestors had.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

January 21, 2012
8:11 AM

Post #8976375

sallyg - I suspect we have lost the instinct to know the difference between what is poisonous and what is not. Some insects have colors or smells that birds know to avoid. Our ancestors ate what was around them, and if it didn't kill them - they ate it again, gaining incite to it's medicinal qualities along the way. But why any ancestor would consider raw garlic edible only they know! LOL
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 21, 2012
9:24 PM

Post #8977202

Honeybee I have lost NO Instinct... I have survived because of it in many situation's...and Consider myself to be a survivor... because of my Indian Heritage or my Veteran experiences or my Life Experiences.
I try to teach this to my Children Daily
the Reality of the Past is... what else did they have to do ... airwaves didn't exist... all of the media we are absorbed by Daily didn't exist, basically it was trial and error. Until 200 years ago People thought Tomato's were Poison. We've found since then that a Periwinkle Plant found in a tropical Rain Forest cures a Disease, Imagine what was Lost in the Great Library of Alexandria, our ancestor's knew MORE than us and we didn't take the Time to Listen...Form an Opinion... and Pass it On...
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 22, 2012
6:38 AM

Post #8977427

I try to teach this to my Children Daily "

Quoted from PappyG: Its not instinct we have lost, its this: a connection with our traditions. Most of the world has survived from parents teaching children. Children learning in the context of an extended family or community. If there is a grandfather around, do you think the children would throw beer bottles in his back yard? Would they trash up the creek where they went fishing with grandfather and great uncles?

I don't think so.

I still remember going to my friends house in N. California. His brothers and sisters were doing their homework. Aunts, uncles, cousins as well as other siblings each took a turn looking at the homework each child was working on, discussing how it was going, offering suggestions. Total involvement. Do you think those kids would be high school drop outs? They not only had to account to their parents, but their whole family. They had to excell and they did.

Do you think any kid growing up as a hunter gather did not know what was poisonous in his environment?

Not likely.
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 23, 2012
9:47 PM

Post #8980045

Gloria I love you ... and the Message you Create...and I have done all of the thing's you describe... I started my own Business, just to make sure I was Home when My children left a School Bus everyday...I am the Oldest of 43 Grandchildren just on my Mother's side... and all of us stay in contact, and Contribute veiw's to one another...on How to Preserve who we are as a Family... From the Time my Children went to Pre-kindergarten we sat at the Kitchen Table and did Homework every Night after Dinner...and still to this day... (they are both in College now), they come Home Freely... and we sit and Discuss... perception's in Life... Microbiology, which I am terrible at...LOL...But it is because of these Discussion's, we evolve...and your right that is lost in Most Family's and is something that need's to be reintroduced ... I Honestly try to reinforce it Daily... and am Shocked by How many Cringe when it's mentioned...I speak Politically when asked, but it appears most would prefer to shove their Head in the Sand, and expect someone else to Protect them... if you have your head in the Sand, that leaves a very sensitive area exposed, and it's usually where our Gov't likes to give it to you First...sad really...LOL
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 23, 2012
9:57 PM

Post #8980047

BTW I Love This Thread, and if you look back to the old Sustainable thread's here, I believe it's how this site started...Thank's Dave...and Thank's to all of You...
gloria125
Greensboro, AL

January 24, 2012
6:02 AM

Post #8980261

As I said earlier, my training is in anthropology-- which is the study of Culture -- not the opera kind belong to only certain social classes of refined taste, but defined as "learned behavior socially transmitted". The premiss of anthropology is that cultures are made up of traditions of learned behaviors passed down through generations. If we want to describe an unwritten culture -- be they gorillas "in the mist", orangs, or humans, we look at what people know and how they have learned it. When we look at traditional societies people are part and pacel of their physical environments and what their traditions are a consequence of learning from elders and passing the information down to the grand children. And they know everything they need to know and more besides -- because primates are curious animals.

One of the things I remember from studying the in-the-field studies of primates (Jane Goodall, George Schaller and others, is the formation of sub-adult multi-male groups -- male gangs. These mischevious "kids" would challenge the boundaries of their territories in so many ways.

My point is we not only learn from our own families, but from our peers as well, and consequently are connected to their family traditions. This makes for a very rich (not boring) mode of life. Even not very bright individuals know what they need to know, and can expect to be cared for and looked after by everyone else. And everyone is a full participant in what ever capacity.

So these things are basic to the concept of what we call human. And when they start to get distorted we are in trouble.

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