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Self-contained Box Gardens: Coco Coir Search...

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Forum: Self-contained Box GardensReplies: 9, Views: 82
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sassybutterfly8
Powder Springs, GA

September 8, 2011
7:53 AM

Post #8798992

Hi everyone!

I'm brand new at the EB bucket gardening style! I'm searching for this coco coir that everyone speaks of but I was never very good at conversions..so I'm not sure if what I've found is actually a good deal or not. Can anyone help me? lol

I found a 5kg compressed bail. The bail weighs 14 lbs. How do I figure out how many 5gal buckets this will fill? (assuming I am also mixing in the perlite and a bit of homemade compost)

The price for this bail is $25.43 with free shipping.

Is this a good deal?

I also have a nearly full bale of peat moss leftover from last year. Could I use that to 'stretch' the coir out in my buckets?

Thanks so much !
~Wendy

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

September 8, 2011
2:44 PM

Post #8799502

Sassy,
I'm gardening almost exclusively in eBuckets, and have been for the last 3 years (working on getting my first raised bed, and converting to in-ground and only some eBuckets in the future...). I will be doing probably my LAST exclusive eBucket garden this season -- 40-50 eBuckets. With that said, I do NOT recommend filling an eBucket entirely with 100% coco coir, or 100% peat moss (MG potting mix). Here's what I do recommend. It's a container soil formula that's been circulating on the Soils and Composting thread for a few years now, and more and more container gardeners are trying it out, and converting their systems. The same discussion has been on the Gardenweb website, and has reached its maximum viewership of 13,000 posts??? THREE times!

This formula is by Al Fassezke, better known as "Tapla" here on Dave's. He's a soil guru, and spent many, many, many hours (and months) helping me locate the Pine Bark Fines (PBFs) that are the backbone of his soil and container recipes.

I originally used the coco coir and MG potting mix (50-50) when it was introduced here, and swore by it -- until my mix started getting so tight, and my plants started failing. Tapla explained (over on his thread), about how a proper soil should be a balance of material that is water retentive without being "boggy wet," and allows for air pockets so the plants can receive oxygen through the soil. This takes a medium made up of particles that are of differing not uniform sizes. Once I understood the principle (and it took AWHILE), I determined to put it to the test. I was moving at the time, breaking down all my eBuckets, and starting from scratch. I decided that I would rebuild the eBucket garden using Tapla's 5:1:1 container mix. On his recommendation, I actually used a 3:1:1 mix of double grind pine bark fines, peat (MG potting mix served as my peat component), and perlite (to create the air spaces in the mix).

The formula works. And, it works well.

So. My recommendation is that you locate some double grind pine bark, and a couple bags of Miracle Grow (MG) potting mix, and a bag of coarse perlite, and mix up your eBucket mix. Oh, and I didn't even mention how much $$$$ I saved filling up all those eBuckets with inexpensive pine bark fines!!!!

Here's the Container Formula

5 parts Pine Bark Fines
(I had to sift what I bought. You want a product that has particles that range in size from dust to no bigger than nickel size slivers of the actual bark of the tree. The slivers should be thin enough to snap easily. There should not be an abundance of long stringy pieces, or wet, thick, chunky pieces of bark. You do NOT want nuggets, or mulch. I'll post a picture of what the RIGHT stuff looks like after I sifted it. I'll also post a picture of some of the WRONG stuff, so you'll have an idea of what you're looking for.

1 part Peat
I used MG potting mix as my peat component. The peat serves as the "wicking" component in your eBucket, and is what draws the water up from the reservoir.

1 part Coarse Perlite
Again, the Perlite creates little air pockets through which water and air can flow through the mix.

Determine what you will use as one "part," and go from there. I used a huge tub, and dumped it all into a 30-gallon rubbermaid tub to mix. Careful on the Perlite -- the dust will make you choke. Wear a mask, and mist it with a hose as you go, to keep down the dust!

Once your mix is all done, you can then divvy it out into your eBuckets. I started off with one-half yard of the PBFs for $18. After I sifted all the PBFs to get the dust to nickle-size material, I added about two LARGE bags (2.65 cu. ft.) of MG Potting Mix, and 1-1/2 large bags (40 cu. ft) of Coarse Perlite to my customized ratio of 3:1:1.

The mix is FAST-draining, and it holds oxygen. My tomatoes grew very fast in the mix, and were not sitting in soggy soil. After my season was over, and I broke down a couple of my eBuckets, I did noticed the mix toward the very bottom of the bucket was more moist than I thought it should be, so this season, I'm considering making an adjustment on the mix, and adding more of the PBFs and a little less peat, for a ratio of 4:1:1. I'll compare to last season. Although, since I'll be growing those water-hogging cole crop plants this fall/winter (cabbages, cauliflowers, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, mustard and collard greens), I might just leave the formula as is, cause they'll take up all the excess moisture they want to anyway!

But, that's my recommendation to you. LMK if you need any clarification. Might be easier to talk offline if you want/need to. I don't mind at all! Send me a dmail and I'll send you my phone number.

Linda

This message was edited Sep 21, 2011 2:02 PM

Thumbnail by Gymgirl
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

September 8, 2011
3:00 PM

Post #8799522

Sassy,
Here's what my sifted product looked like before I mixed in the MG and the Perlite. I call it "the RIGHT stuff" Look for something that has a good ratio of dust to quarter-size thin slivers. You don't want to have to sift out so much trash you end up with just a little bit of your stuff left. That's not cost effective. You want more of the "good particles" up front, and sifting out just a little bit of trash. Out of the twenty-five 5-gallon buckets, and two 18-gallon Rubbermaid tubs of Pine Bark Fines I brought home, I sifted out approximately 10-13 buckets of too-large pieces. But, in my case, I didn't lose anything, because these too-large pieces will eventually be remixed into my raised beds.. But, too large for containers...

This message was edited Sep 21, 2011 2:03 PM

Thumbnail by Gymgirl
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

September 8, 2011
3:02 PM

Post #8799525

Sassy,
Here's a picture of what I call, "the WRONG" stuff. Too many chunks, too many stringy, pulpy pieces (you want the nice dry slivers of the pine bark. This example is too "shreddy," and it doesn't have enough "dust".

The RIGHT stuff almost looks like the MG Potting Mix, except with the thin slivers added!

This message was edited Sep 8, 2011 5:03 PM

Thumbnail by Gymgirl
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

September 8, 2011
3:05 PM

Post #8799526

Here's another example of "the RIGHT stuff"

Thumbnail by Gymgirl
Click the image for an enlarged view.

sassybutterfly8
Powder Springs, GA

September 8, 2011
7:51 PM

Post #8799994

Wow, thank you SO very much Gymgirl!! That is all fantastic info.. I've already copied and pasted everything. :) Now I just need to start googling and try to find these pine bark fines now! I love this idea because that coir really is expensive stuff! The cost was going to limit the amt of buckets I'd be trying in the spring but if I can find that pine bark cheap.. the sky's the limit ! :)

If I'd only asked this question 2 wks ago.. we just had 6 HUGE pines cut down in our yard and they did shred them, in fact most of my backyard is now covered in shredded pine.. but it's not FINELY shredded. If I'd known then what I know now I'd of been shoveling the shredded stuff right back into their chipper..lol :))

Your soil mix recommendation is very similar to what I mix up for my wintersowing jugs but I'd used peat moss instead of the PBF's. So this makes good sense !

Again, thank you So much for taking the time to explain all this. I really appreciate it!!

~Wendy
sassybutterfly8
Powder Springs, GA

September 8, 2011
8:01 PM

Post #8800004

I almost forgot .. what about the fertilizer? Is any needed?

Thanks!

Gymgirl

Gymgirl
SE Houston (Hobby), TX
(Zone 9a)

September 8, 2011
10:00 PM

Post #8800100

Wendy,
Glad I made sense. Al worked with me a loooooong time before I got it. Some of the discussion was so technical, I kept getting lost!

Regarding fertilizers, you will still need them. In fact, without 'em your mix has no real nutrients. But, the beautiful part is that you get to control feeding your plants. I used MG water soluable plant food for Veggies. You can also use the time-released fert like the eBucket recommendations.

sassybutterfly8
Powder Springs, GA

September 9, 2011
7:24 AM

Post #8800450

Thank you!!! I'm sure I'll be back soon, this is a fantastic forum! So glad I found it :)

Have a great weekend,
~Wendy
Tplant
Pembroke Pines, FL
(Zone 10a)

September 21, 2011
11:56 AM

Post #8817887

Gymgirl -- Just came across this thread as I haven't been up to par for awhile. Too bad you can't find Jungle Growth in your area as it has all those ingredients especially the pine needles. YOU HAVE COME A LONG WAY SINCE WE FIRST MET A FEW YEARS AGO? CONGRATULATIONS!!!
All of you that are new to gardening listen to her as she gives good advice and has the production to prove it. I have gone from 29 EBs to three and don't know if I can manage those at this time but I must try. It is my painful arthritic shoulders that are holding me back and my post polio legs that are so very weak.

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