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Peppers: Jaloros hybrid or O/P?

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1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

November 10, 2011
12:35 PM

Post #8884934

The reason I'm asking this is because DG plant files indicates they are hybrids but one of the reviews says they are O/P. The only thing I know for sure is that they were introduced in 1992 by the Texas Ag Agency.
Thanks!
Farmerdill
Augusta, GA
(Zone 8a)


November 10, 2011
1:13 PM

Post #8885020

["Jaloro - Breeder: B.Villalon, F.J.Dainello, D.A.Bender. Parentage: AC2207, USDA PI 264280, Jalapeno L, Caloro. Characteristics: Open-pollinated, jalapeno type, pungent bright yellow fruit turning to bright red at maturity, 54 x 28 mm fruit size, 4.13 mm wall thickness, 3-4 locules, high temperature fruit set (38C). Resistance: Texas isolates of Tobacco Mosaic Virus, Tobacco Etch Virus, Potato Virus Y, Tobacco ringspot Virus, Cucumber Mosaic Virus. Adaptation: Texas, New Mexico, California. HortScience 29:1092-1093. 1992"]
rjogden
Gainesville, FL
(Zone 8b)

November 10, 2011
2:21 PM

Post #8885088

1lisac wrote:The reason I'm asking this is because DG plant files indicates they are hybrids but one of the reviews says they are O/P. The only thing I know for sure is that they were introduced in 1992 by the Texas Ag Agency.
Thanks!


It's a bit complicated. A variety of pepper (or tomato, corn, etc.) can be a "hybrid" and still be open-pollinated. It just depends on your definition of "hybrid".

For practical purposes, "F1" hybrids are seeds from two selected dissimilar genetically-stable parents that is known to reliably produce plants with desired characteristics inherited from both parents.

The "F1" is the "hybrid" usually referred to in garden catalogs, as contrasted to "Open Pollinated" which are ASSUMED to be the offspring of genetically stable and identical parents or by self-pollination of a single genetically-stable parent. In practical application, it is up to the breeder to ensure that an "Open Pollinated" variety is not actually a cross between two different varieties growing in close proximity.

"F2" hybrids are the offspring of "F1" hybrids, and can vary tremendously from both the original "grandparents" and the F1. Generally they contain intermediate sets of characteristics from the original parents, but there is no way to accurately predict which of the characteristics will be passed on. That's why seeds of F1 plants aren't generally saved to be replanted except by the curious gardener or breeder. There are some "Open Pollinated" lines that started out as offspring of F1's but have been selected over several generations for desired characteristics and are assumed to be at least somewhat genetically stable. How many generations are needed to achieve genetic stability - or even if absolute genetic "stability" is desirable - is open to question.

"Inter-specific" hybrids are used to produce quite a few modern horticultural plants that are themselves genetically stable through long cycles of selection and reproduction. That is, they arose by natural or intentional hybridization but have been stabilized so their offspring closely resembles the parent(s). They are usually indicated in botanical literature by the use of an "x" before the scientific name (e.g.: Dianthus × allwoodii, an intentional cross between two different species of dianthus).

Then there is the unusual case of "inter-generic" hybrids. These are plants that arise from a cross between parents of different genera. They are to the best of my knowledge always "mules" - sterile, not able to produce fertile pollen or seeds. One well-known example is the "Leyland Cypress" (Cupressocyparis leylandii), a popular landscape tree that is a cross between members of two different genera, Cupressus and Chamaecyparis. The original cross was reportedly completely accidental, originating in a botanical garden - the two species, being from California and Alaska respectively, would likely never have crossed in nature.

Well, I let that run on a bit...probably "TMI" ;o).

-Rich
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

November 10, 2011
5:15 PM

Post #8885251

I know what hybrid means, DG PF says that the seeds collected from this pepper will not come true. Just wondering, thanks Farmerdill. Would you mind changing the info on PF so it is correct?

Just to clear things up hybrid on seed packets almost always means F1 specifically pollinated to produce the same plant again and again. Sometimes too much information just makes an issue more confusing.

This message was edited Nov 10, 2011 9:18 PM
rjogden
Gainesville, FL
(Zone 8b)

November 10, 2011
10:28 PM

Post #8885588

1lisac wrote:Sometimes too much information just makes an issue more confusing.


...And sometimes issues can be confusing without the information. That was sort of my point. It would be convenient if it were more simple - but it isn't.

BTW, all the sources I've seen on Jaloro indicate it is open-pollinated, and if it is grown in isolation from other peppers its seeds should also produce Jaloro peppers. If it's allowed to cross-pollinate, the results are anyone's guess.

-Rich
Farmerdill
Augusta, GA
(Zone 8a)


November 11, 2011
3:43 AM

Post #8885645

1lilac; These entries are made by folks like ourselves. sometimes the vendors don't supply much information and some times we get in a hurry and make assumptions or just plain check the wrong box. Mistakes get corrected when someone notices and uses the "report an error" button at the top of the detail page. If documentaion is provided, admin usually makes corrections quickly. Jaloro is not usually found at mainstream vendors, but seems to be popular with small heirloom and specialty vendors.
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

November 11, 2011
9:37 AM

Post #8885934

Rich-All I meant by that post was that if its a commercial seed its F1 unless otherwise indicated. I agree with the other info you gave but I dont know if its really relevant for commercially purchased seeds. Yes the plants have to be isolated to ensure genetic purity, but thats not even an issue unless I know its O/P.

Thanks Farmerdill. I realize that regular people make the entries on PF, obviously not me or I wouldnt have had to ask. LOL Also, sometimes they start out as hybrids, then get stabilized. I just dont want to advertise them as O/P if they arent. So far I have seeds from TGS and Sustainable Seeds has them too.

Thanks!
rjogden
Gainesville, FL
(Zone 8b)

November 12, 2011
8:27 AM

Post #8886962

1lisac wrote:Rich-All I meant by that post was that if its a commercial seed its F1 unless otherwise indicated.


Which seed are you talking about? With all due respect, my experience is generally the opposite, especially when it comes to peppers. Almost all the common hot varieties are OP (e.g.: jalapeņos, serranos, cayennes, habaņeros, and especially the newly-popular superhot C. chinense varieties), and the vast majority of roasting and frying varieties are also OP. The only common vegetables I'm aware of which are "usually" F1's are tomatoes, sweet corn and broccoli. The others - at least the common ones - are pretty evenly split between OP and F1, and F1 versions of some vegetables are downright hard to find. If there is no significant advantage to creating and planting such a one-time-use hybrid, many people are naturally unwilling to pay several times the price of OP seed. All the seed merchants I'm aware of label their F1 strains.

-Rich
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

November 12, 2011
11:01 AM

Post #8887093

What I meant was if the the seed is a hybrid then its F1, unless otherwise indicated. Thats what I meant, to keep it simple. Commercial seeds are either O/P or Hybrids, if they are hybrids they are F1s. To avoid further confusion for a pretty straight forward question, those are the only 2 possible answers to my question. I have asked this question before and the response is usually simply hybrid or O/P. But I got my answer thanks to Farmerdill, on this particular cultivator and thats all I was looking for.

I simply wanted to know if Jaloros were O/P or Hybrids, cant understand how so much other information got involved but I got my answer so the thread is open to go off topic if anybody wishes. : )

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