Good for you! Pro-active. I have a neighbor who allows her weeds to creep into my garden. Once I eradicate the ones in mine, I pull any that are within a foot of my yard. Bu that doesn't seem to be an option for you.
Oh, drthor! And you do have such lovely roses. In which county is Irving located? I know there is a co-operative agent in Tarrant county. Is that near you? Well, the point is: I would go visit the co-operative extention agent with jurisdiction in your area. Pester him/her a little. Maybe they can do something--but I don't know what. It seem to me that the USDA should have some sort of say in comunicable plant diseases, shouldn't they? Let us know how you progress... =(
Here is a section that I think specifically applies to this situation:
The disease is known to be transmitted by the eriophyid mite Phyllocoptes fructiphylus or by grafting. The wild multiflora rose (Rosa multiflora) is very susceptible to the disease and is a common source of inoculum. Cultivated roses planted downwind of infected multiflora rose are especially at risk because the mite vector travels on wind currents from infected to healthy plants. Some growers have observed symptoms on previously healthy plants within four weeks of being planted downwind from diseased multiflora rose.
The causal agent of rose rosette disease is not soil-borne, so it is possible to successfully plant healthy roses in beds where diseased plants have been removed; however, the pathogen may persist in old root pieces that remain in the soil from previous diseased roses. If plants regrow from these old root pieces, as multiflora rose is apt to do, they can serve as an inoculum source for healthy plants. Therefore, it is important to remove old plants thoroughly and ensure that infected plants are not allowed to regrow from old, infected root pieces.
So no matter what Drthor does, there will be continued problems specifically because the neighbor has not removed the diseased roses.
I'm with porkpal. The mysterious demise of obviously uncared for plants would probably not be questioned. Wait for a dark and windless night... ;~)
Do they have dogs? Security lights? Lazer activated securty alarms?
Seriously, though, I do think if you have a plant nursery nearby, and if they sell roses, then they might be as interested as you in finding satisfactory closure to this matter. After all, if they have roses for sale, and if they are close enough to be concerned with wind-borne infection, then they just might know who to contact regarding potential loss of their inventory. Also, are there regular landscapers working in your neighborhood? They might also be concerned about contamination of any roses in their care. If they all start complaining to the HOA or even to the local extension agent then something might get done. I don't know what, but there must be something.
Best of luck to you. I know I would be gnashing my teeth over this if it were me!
terro_emory ... They don't have dogs or light activated secutiry alarms ... as far as I know they just go out the front door to get their mail.
They live in a milion dollars home, they have a crystal chandelier that is on all night with more than 100 light bulbs, they are both doctors and they could care less on what their garden look like.
The landscaper cut the grass only. They let the shrubs grow like a jungle. Last year I had to really beg HOA to have a look at their horrible yard !!
I have contacted the city and there is NO ordinance or code for the disease ... aaahh
I will wait one more week and after I will send over my husband !!
Otherwise I will move ... but I love my house ... I have planted millions of bulbs and flowers in the last 6 years ... oooohhh
My neighbors also have a big and expensive house, and has incredible landscaping install that was neglected. They boasted to me of the 8 year old Redbud they installed - by far the most beautiful one I have ever seen - dead within a year because of no water, and planting in the wrong kind of soil. I step over the property line with my dandelion digger to remove weeds within a foot of my property line. They installed big trees that never grew because of lack of care. My yoshino cherry is bigger than their silver linden. They had 5 magnificent white pines and killed three of them. 15 year old Kentucky coffee trees haven't grown an inch since installation.
And then, to add insult to injury, they planted about 60 Knockouts.
It's a shame when people with lots of money build big, ostentatious houses and let the outside look so awful. I'm so sorry that you are going through this (and wow, what is the matter with your HOA)???!!!
It is very difficult to deal with self-centered and thoughtless neighbors. I know that first hand. Thus I live in the middle of 75 acres. My parents asked me why I need that much land when we first moved here to Texas and I told them it gave me time enough to take aim at any unwanted neighbors straying onto my property. Yes, I previously had abutting neighbors from you-know-where and now I'm crotchetty and grumpy about such things. One of these former neighbors actually sprayed my fence line including several peonies and first year climbing New Dawns (3) with Round Up. They didn't ask or say anything to me they just did it. When I asked them what they thought they were doing they told me the roses and peonies attracted bees and they didn't want bees around their children. These little dears were not allergic to bee stings or anything like that. The parents didn't want the bees near their children as they might frighten them. Same for the peonies except they attracted ants also and ants might frighten them as well. I could go on, but we'll just leave it at that and I will now take some deep, cleansing breaths.
Wow. That's one of the worst stories I've ever heard. A friend of mine was selecting houses and wanted to avoid Homeowners Associations (alternately useless and interfering) and swing sets/tramoplines/sand boxes and the like. It seems harsh, but people sometimes do very stupid things, presumably for the sake of their children, who are often poorly disciplined. Imagine destroying a neighbor's property because of some projected benefit for your children. Or sending your children outside to scream because they are tired of them. Or the issue of not teaching a child how to properly curb a dog (not a pretty sight, a dog lifting its leg over your peonies, ten feet onto your property). Maybe because the parents let their animals do their business everywhere.
I finally put some Sea Foams in to prevent trespassing. They spread beautifully sideways, so I only needed a few, and if you try to walk through them the thorns will rip your legs off - your dog's too. (Smile)
Yes, good idea, Dr. Thor. Some people, like dogs, need training in order to reinforce desired behavior. Your cake is the dog treat. Maybe you can give them a little rub under the chin, too. And between the ears.
Please keep a close, close watch on your own roses because the symptoms can take a while to manifest. I lost about 30 of my roses to this wretched disease. The multiflora rose in the "abandoned" property next door was infested. If only I had known what to look for I think I could have prevented some of the spread. Once you know what to look for, you see it everywhere. I called the Virgina Dept. of Agriculture on a local nursery who was selling infected roses, and I found some at a local Big Box as well. Be suspicious and be ruthless- because all symptoms of Rose Rosette do not need to be in evidence for the disease to be killing your plants. Those are excellent pictures and I suspect those roses were far along.
Playing devil's advocate, maybe your neighbor was trying to figure out what was happening to the roses. Many "rose experts" in VA insisted that the disease was rare and couldn't possibly be what I was seeing. I got that over and over, from folks who would even refuse to come out and look because they didn't want to believe the disease is spreading. The local Big Box manager insisted I was confusing "new growth" with the disease... even though the Knock Outs they were selling looked like the first photo you posted!
WOW ... same here.
Even the company that take care organically of my garden didn't know what I was talking about.
Now I have the eyes to spot Rosette disease from far far away ...
What will we do without our roses ?
Anyway, I am happy that my neighbor took care of th eproblem right away.
One more point... be careful about using a Round-up type killer on infected plants. Once I did find reputable help I was advised to dig-up and bag the plants. If the plant dries up and has a slow death the mite that carries this disease is motivated to detach and float off on the next strong wind to a healthy, green host!
I'd go a step further to use a disposable work suit or at least remove all clothing and wash it before moving to work in your healthy garden.
DrThor- I know! I have all my rose books, rose magazines and I just want to cry. I have found solace in indulging in hardy Salvias, which I love (the Greggii are favorites). I have given in to buying plants that won't over-winter so I can fill holes, and then replace the next spring. I ordered some exhibition style mums that I allowed to grow like garden mums. That was fun and if our warm winter keeps up I may just have them next spring. I also indulged in Clematis. They didn't do much, but I am hoping that like roses they will astound me this year or next.
I have 2 roses that look OK, so I am giving them this spring to prove they are in fact OK. They can't infect anything else (aside from the multiflora along the cow field across the street) at this point! One is a Dainty Bess and the other is either a Red Eden or a William Shakespeare 2000 (I forgot which was planted where!). If they go, they go. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Dainty Bess, as I love her so. Perhaps my out of control catmint saved her?
I grow Nepeta in with my roses as many years ago a rose nurseryman from the old ARS list serve told me that lady bugs love to over-winter in it. Once they "wake up" in spring, he told me they are very hungry and will voratiously eat every aphid and mite they can find. I had also heard that rosemary is a favorite with the lady bugs. I don't know that having lots of lady bugs around would help at all with RD as I've read that the RD carying mites can lurk in the graft which I usually bury, but I like lady bugs so I grow their favorite plants when I can.
I know that it is expensive to buy from nurseries that certify virus free, but I buy from them because it is one less thing to wory about. I'd probably have wayyyyyy more roses in my garden by now if I weren't so fussy about my rose sources. Of course, if my neighbor is not so fussy then my roses are at risk, too. It is so hard to deal with this aweful disease!
Wow, Ladyschweig, that's fascinating! They say they don't know about it? When I was looking for information on the disease and googled Rose Rosette disease, the very first entry is the Virginia Cooperative Extension! The very first one!
As for Roundup, I rarely use it, but my method is to take a little bowl of it, put on disposable gloves, dip two fingers in the bowl and touch the plant victim. Intersting enough, in the conservation community I just left after13 years, Roundup was sprayed by the landscapers they hire all the time - and people have the burnt plants to show for it. It is not something you spray!
Donna- the Extension never doubted... but asking ARS folks and Nursery folks was just asking for trouble.
Normally I do not buy my roses from the Big Box or even the local independent nursery... but the latter had a gorgeous Gemini that I simply could not resist. I learned my lesson! I have loved buying from Amity Heritage roses and I bought a whole bunch from a rosarian who was retiring in Sherando, VA a few years back. Aside from that Gemini I had only own-root roses. Oh, this is so sad to recall. I want my roses back someday but this RRD has me so scared that i am waiting a couple of years.
=(, I'm sorry for those sad memories, ladyschweig. Roses should only bring us happiness. Sigh. How long before it is safe to plant again? I really don't know that much about RRD exept how to identify it.
Cassie has been one of my all time favorite.
This rose is always in bloom.
I have also Cassie in the shade and it blooms almost all year apart for the winter , when it makes the most adorable red hips.
Small green leaves and millions of white flowers.
It is in bloom right now below
That is so beautiful. And what a lovely little composition you have there.
Here is Sea Foam with Avalanche White petunias, and seedling nicotiana alata and verbena bonariensis. I installed it partially as a "no trespassing zone" and also to hide daffodil foliage. It gets no disease and blooms into December. I want to duplicate this at the new house.
But wow it is prolific. This pic has two Sea Foams. One of them has a seven foot horizontal stem, so I only ordered one for the new house. The rocks you see divide my yard from the one next door. Her huge arbor provides a great backdrop for my Zephirine Droughin, newly planted Greenspire linden and, peeking on the left, Constance Spry.
It actually diminishes the Knockouts that she put in the yard (I hate Knockouts).
Oh, how awful. Several of your removed roses have been on my wish list for ages. When I was first choosing roses I picked up a couple of books about organic rose growing, since I had so many choices and wanted to give preference to any disease resistant roses on my list. New Dawn was too large, but Duchess de Brabant would have gone into my yard but for climate problems, and Belinda's Dream was considered too. I ended up with two Portlands (Rose de Rescht and Marchesa Bocchella) because of their disease resistance, zone hardiness, very strong rebloom and very strong scent. I think it must be harder, sentomentally, to be forced to remove them than to leave them behind.
One more white rose I must mention is Madame Hardy. It does not rebloom, but it has every other virtue.
The first time I noticed this Rose Rosette disease it was in 3 of my huge climbers: MARMAID.
This rose has a AARD rating of 9.8 and practically disease resistant by the book ... I guess not.
I was truly devastated !!!
But I think my odds are much better now that my neigbor did remove all her infected roses !!
We have very similar tastes. I do so hope that your rosette problem is resolved. I think the only thing worse than having to leave roses behind is to have the ones on your property infected.
Don Juan is a great rose. I was considering getting it but it was a bit big for my purposes. I had Dublin Bay at the old house and ordered it for the new - it's coming in spring. It's a controlled climber. It's so good I recommended it to my inlaws (which can be dangerous) and it really performed. It got shaded out by lilacs, but it was completely disease resistant and had unfading crimson flowers.
I have one rose that is perplexing me. I have a rosa rugosa alba. This plant has always been hyper thorny, so that is not a clue. It's canes are thick and have been since it was a baby. I haven't seen any real evidence of witches broom growth, though I am watching it like a hawk, as I did all last season. Something made me not rip it out. I figured if it was infected it really had no-one left to hurt. It is surrounded by bearded iris, day lilies, and right now lots and lots of chickweed (yuck!). Here's the crazy thing... I have several volunteer babies under it. I love leaving the hips on, and it is clear over the past 3 years some of the dropped seeds took hold.
I have wondered if RRD would pass through to the offspring of an infected plant, or would the offspring of an infected plant no survive? So far I haven't found a firm answer, kind of like when I asked a large-cat expert at a zoo if large cats could ever be poly-dactyl like some house cats. I'm kind of crazy like that.
I just pulled out my books and did some searching and read that rosa rugosa alba is consistently described, not as thorny, but as "very thorny", "extremely thorny". Another quote: "if there is any drawback to growing this rose, it is the extreme spikiness of its limbs"
I think that your rose is probably OK.
Oh, and yes large cats can be polydactyl. There is a domestic cat that was deliberately bred from a polydactyl cat for that trait, which makes their little tootsies strong and agile (I've been watching Cats 101). I'm trying to remember the breed. Naughty person at the zoo should have known that!
Yes, Rosa Rugosa Alba, thorns out the wazoo! I did have this rose up north and only just now discovered I can probably grow it down here in TX. As I love thorny roses this one is now on my list!
As for the polydactyl inheritance trait, is polydactyl caused by a virus? I haven't been in a biology or science class in a long time, but we were at the point (when I was in college) where we believed that the genetic disposition to become infected with a virus was possible. But one could not actually genetically inherit the virus. Only the damage a virus may have caused or the possibility, however great or small, to become infected upon exposure. There were some really neat studies I was very interested in at the time on the genetic inheritance of resistance to the Spanish inflenza epidemic which killed so many people after WWI.
That may have changed as genetic research has really taken off since then.
As I understand it some viruses can in fact be inherited. One human herpes virus, Roseola, is able to insert itself into the DNA and is present at birth. Fortunately not all viruses seem to be so capeable.
As I understand it, the polydactyl trait in cats is sometimes caused by a mutation. And breeder will catch it and (hopefully very carefully) breed for it. It makes cats agile and strong. It's a genetic advantage (better hunters, faster, stronger). I wish I could remember the name of the wild cat that was carefully bred by a geneticist over a 20 year period to create a very healthy polydactyl cat.
The influenza strain thingy really caught my attention after that last bad flu strain. It particularly affected younger people (under 40? definitely children and people in their 20's) because they had never been exposed to the 1918 strain, which was contained in later, milder strains, thus giving the people with exposure to the minor strain years later immunity. Most strains of flu have a devastating effect on people over 70 but that age group breezed through it.
And indeed, Lady S. is an absolute expert on rose rosette!!!
I had a poly-dactyl cat for 18.5 years... love of my life! My other wait and see rose is the David Austin William Shakespeare 2000 that was planted in honor of said kitty's passing. I lost the other two I had in his honor, a Mozart rose. His name was Wolfgang Shakespeare! No Wolfgang roses out there, so I had to go with Mozart as the next best thing.
Donna- thanks for the hyper thorny notes! I haven't seen red growth on the rugosa or witches brooms. I am watching, watching watching. Even the volunteer seedlings are thorny monsters. I tried to dig one up when I was in my frenzy to removed infected plants, thinking I would move and isolate the little ones but I didn't have gloves that were up to the task!
On a brighter note- I've ordered a leverage tool to pull saplings and nuisance plants out... roots and all. I have a corner of my backyard to reclaim but I also plan to try and rip out the multiflora rose that are close enough to my side of the property line.
I live one mile away from the "Four Seasons" hotel here in Irving.
I just drove by the side of the hotel today and I had to stop my car because I didn't believe what I saw !!
The Four Season is surrounded by a metal fence all around and they have the most amazing red climbing roses !
All of their plants are INFECTED by the Rose Rosette Disease !!
This disease is going airborne big time.
What am I going to do?
Shall I go to the hotel and say: "by the way you need to remove all the roses" otherwise the all city of Dallas will not be able to have roses in their gardens ...
ohhhh they are just think I am crazy ...
Seriously, why not write to the manager of the hotel, and carbon copy the President of the Four Seasons, whereever he or she is. When the manager realizes that the President is going to see it, he or she will probably want to take action before someone from HQpicks up the phone.
It works. I had a problem with a national firm with a local branch with whichI was having problems. I wrote to the local manager, copying the president in Texas, and got a response within 24 hours. And the problem was solved.
Just be thorough in your description. And do provide contact information.
Dthor, I agree. I regret not writing to the theme park in Central PA where I saw RRD last summer. I know I'll be passing by it again this summer and I may just have to check in on them. I think I was in a very depressed mood at the time and figured "the damage is done" but the more I think of it DonnaMack is right. How many public landscaping sites will go unattended and end up infecting other areas?
I'm still on-watch at the local nursery that I called our state dept. of agriculture on. If they put out 2010 infected roses in 2011 I really don't trust them in 2012. I don't want to be a trouble maker for no reason but selling infected stock is the height of bad practice. I know it cost me close to 30 of my rosey-friends! I plan to be the proverbial "thorn" in the side of any nursery in my area tihs year who sells infected stock and I will not head out to the garden centers without my my camera-phone to take pictures! With RRD a picture is worth a thousand words (or thorns, or witch's broom shoots!).
There is a doctoral student either at the Univ. Of Arkansas or Alabama that last year or so isolated the pathogen that causes RRD. There was hope that a test could and would be developed. I have not read more about it and the fellow's name is escaping me. He can be found on YouTube talking about RRD.
DonnaMack- no! I meant my rose plants! They were all like friends!
As for the one sales person at said nursery who revealed that their manager just told them to "cut the infected part off", I hope she still has a job but I really hope she has a job at a more honest and alert place.
The local community college lost many of its roses due to RR disease. They had a large, mature collection, as part of their Landscape and Turf Management Program. They do have one section left that's so far has escaped, located in a walled courtyard, which probably saved them. This disease is becoming alarmingly prevalent. The roses lost were literally miles from any others and several years old. It seems that the mite can carry a pretty good distance, with the prevailing winds.
That's really horrible. I knew it was bad in Virginia, but I didn't know abouy Ohio.
Has anyone discovered a preventative step? I know we don't like chemicals, but this situation seems extreme. When thrips wer ruining my peonies, I started to use acephate, a systemic, and it solved the problem (it's a you bite, you die substance).
drthor is correrct. RR disease is a virus. There are no cures for a plant virus. Roses also get Mosaic virus. A rose can live with that disease, however its best to remove the rose and dispose of it by wrapping it, roots and all, and sending it to the landfill.
More we will talk about ... sooner somebody will find a cure
I was driving around my neighbor and spotted two more garden infected ... I was not looking for the roses ... I was just driving and OMG !
I wrote a very nice letter to the neighbors and printed all the information I found on the web. It will be their decision on what to do.
I hope I will not have eggs thrown to my windows ... my husband said that this what people do when they are upset with you in the USA ...
Question - thoughts. I have three 15foot Zepherine Drouhins, all touching. Or had three :( I removed two which came down with RRD. The third looks okay but it was touching the others. I hate to remove it if I don't have to but it's also upwind of a number of other roses that I obviously don't want to lose. Think I should remove it?
Also - can anyone explain how RRD permeates the entire rose? Why is it not sufficient to cut the rose back to the ground the minute you see any signs of RRD, or is it just way too late by that time? And if it is way too late, maybe I've answered my first question, which is to lose my last beautiful ZD :(
Your heart must be broken. I only have one Zeph, but it is the most beautiful thing - at 8 years old it is about the size of yours. And I'm really sorry to tell you that from all the data I have read it is very contagious.
I did find this:
Although there is no compound that will control the causal agent of rose rosette directly, effective control of mites with certain miticides can reduce the risk of spread. Be aware that miticides registered for control of spider mites do not control the eriophyid mites that transmit rose rosette disease. Some researchers have obtained reasonable control with Sevin; however, mites are very small and it can be difficult to get complete coverage. Also, use of Sevin to control eriophyid mites can lead to outbreaks of spider mites. The insecticide, Avid, is registered for control of both eriophyid and spider mites on roses.
Use of miticides in the absence of cultural controls is not recommended. One way to use a miticide as an additional tool in a control program is to focus sprays on plants that surround spots where diseased plants have been removed. These are the most likely plants to which mites from within a planting would have moved. Spraying every two weeks from April until September should significantly reduce the mite population and the risk of transmission. Additional sprays may be needed during hot, dry weather when eriophyid mites are most active.
RR Disease, being a virus, can be roughly compared to having a cold. Maybe its only your runny nose that exhibits any outward symptoms, but the virus is throughout your body. Cutting off your nose wouldn't cure you of having the cold virus. The difference here is that a human makes antibodies to the cold virus, so you get over it. A rose doesn't. Its forever infected and forever contagious as long as it lives. My Disease and Insect Prof said you should also remove as many rose roots as possible. The virus doesnt persist in the soil and you can replant. However keep in mind that there is a known vulnerability in that location so it might be better to try a new location for a rose garden, perhaps out of the path of prevailing winds.
It is the equivalent of the lily leaf beetles for lily lovers. Especially for those who have hundreds of lilies, it's a losing battle. Handpicking excrement covered beetles, or using toxic chemicals - what a choice!
Imidacloprid would be my chemical of choice for lily leaf beetles. You can find it in the Bayer Advanced products or as" Merit" for trees and shrubs. Its a systemic. If using Merit, you use it as a soil drench very early in the season, as soon as you see the lily begin to poke through the soil. It will protect for the entire season. If you use Bayer Advanced Rose and Flower care, imidacloprid will protect for two months, as opposed to spraying every 7 - 10 days with Neem or other contact insecticides. The applicaion rate for a lily bed would be roughly equivalent to a rose bed. A good discussion can be found here:
Imidacloprid is considred low to moderate toxicity and non carcinogenic. I've had good experience using the chemical in several tough to control pest situations. It was the only thing that finally saved my 10 year old Weeping Larix from the Larch Casebearer and my 12 year old Green Mountain boxwood from Boxwood leaf miner. Effective control of both of those pests relies on the perfect timing of sprays with the vulnerable nymph stage, which is a very short window of about a week, requires a magnifying loop to even see the darned things and if it rains all that week - well - never mind. Try as I might, I couldn't get the timing right. Miss the opportunity, and the next one doesnt come until the next year. Early spring soil drenches of imidacloprid are effective on all the feeding stages of pest development.
Snapple, my experience is similar. Imidacloprid is effective against japanese beetles. I use the Bayer products. I have two lindens and japanese beetles love them. I used both Milky Spore and while I was waiting for it to become effective I used the Bayer products. My neighbors have a linden that was decimated by them, and it was less than 30 feet from my linden.
I also agree about the timing. Imidacloprid, in my experience, has to be there before the japanese beetles arrive.
Thank you for the guidance on the lily leaf beetle. It will get here eventually. Remember how few japanese beetles there were ten years ago? I didn't bother to spray. Now if you don't do something, they decimate your yard. It would be nice to use only organics, but it isn't realistic for me. I tried many organic remedies for japanese beetles. The only truly effective one, because it gets rid of the grubs and spreads, is milky spore. But you have to use it correctly!
I use Bayer when, to quote Jean-Luc Picard, "the line must be drawn here!" All the rest is organic, but I've got quite a few roses now and Texas has quite a few more bugs. I'm not filthy rich and I'm not willing to loose my investment to a bunch of #$%@ JB's or Gypsy Moth larvae. I'm clutsy enough to kill off a few roses a year on my own, thank you. And the drought really got me last year.
My question is this: Are these RR carying mites prevalent during a particular time of year?
I think I'm going to go with the watch and see and removal the minute I see anything. Since I try to do a daily walk to check everything each day, hopefully I'll get to it in time if it appears. Out of 125 roses I lost about 25 last year to RRD, my husband convinced me it was time to focus on something else so I ordered bunches of other things, but when the rose catalogs came out, I succumbed once again... Good news is I think I have overcome the JB battle; while I had tons of them the first 15 years or so here, the last three years I've had literally only a handful, which has been nice.
Tilia cordata - Litle Leaf Linden - and other Linden species are known Japanese beetle magnets. As to chemicals versus organic, when it comes to insect pests I'll look for a green method of control first. If the results arent good, or if the problem is persistant and nasty, like the Brown Marmorated Stink bug then I dont waste my time. I follow five steps necessary for responsible use of chemical insecticides. 1. Correctly identify the plant. 2. Correctly identify the pest, and learn its life cycle to determine when its vulnerable to control measures. 3. Determine what chemical and control strategies are necessary. 4. If this plant/tree/shrub will require annual treatment decide if I really want to keep the plant. Is it worth keeping? Example: I have a 14' wide x 4' tall Girard's Red evergreen azalea that is stunning in the spring and has pleasant foliage year round. However, its prone to Azalea Lace bug. Its one case where imidacloprid would work but the sheer size and growth pattern ( ground hugger) makes imidacloprid almost impossible to use as a soil drench. So I have to spray nearly every April. But I keep the shrub. Someone else might decide that an annual battle isn't worth the hassle. 5. I make certain that the plant/tree/shrub is growing in favorable cultural conditions. Stressed plants are much more prone to insects and particularly diseases.
You can apply the same decision making process to a disease prone shrub. Example: Powdery mildew on deciduous azaleas. I determined that I was going to have a big battle keeping a shrub border of deciduous azaleas free of powdery mildew. I wasn't growing them in an area with enough air circulation. One side of the border was up against a stockade fence. The powdery mildew was so severe that the plants were nearly defoliated by mid August. The only control was repeat spraying beginning at bud break. Reluctantly I ripped them out. The plants were in the wrong place. Just wish I'd been smart enough to realize that before I planted.
I like the way you describe it as a decision making process. I do what you do, but never identified it so clearly.
I was lucky in that by the time I as planting there were great refererence works like Dirr's "Manual of Woody Landscape Plants" and te later eye candy "Hardy Trees and Shrubs". All the mistakes made in my yard were by professionals, such as putting a cornus alternafolia in such a poor location and position that it was down to one leaf. I was able to lift it, replant it. at the correct height, and relocate it. They put two viburnum carlesis so close together that one killed the other. They planted seven viburnum trilobums so close together that six of them rotted. Two shrubs were planted in wire bags - one suckered endlessly and the other died. I could go on.
So don't blame yourself. "Professionals" cost us thousands.
In replacing and filling out the yard (having been burned) Iresearched spacing and soil and sun - and started installing my own trees and shrubs. Really satisfying. And now, in my new yard, I recognize wet spots, frost zones, and other things that need amending.
Youe message is a nice reminder to do it with thought. Thanks!
I'd like to update you on the Rose Rosette infestation at the Four Season Resort in Irving (TX)
Thanks to a member of Dave's Garden (also a Master Gardener) who went to the resort in person and start to talk to their landscape people and teach them about their diseased roses ... the roses are all gone.
It took 400 hours of work to remove more than 300 roses ... it is soooooo sad to see all of those roses gone ... but 50% of them were almost all dead.
I really appreciate all the help I received from Dave's Garden members, from identifying the disease to solve this matter.
Now let's wait and see what will happen in my garden.
Soon to be followed by a problem with a beloved annual - Impatiens. In the next 3 to 5 years there wont be any Impatiens crop in the US. The disease is Downly Mildew. The cure is non-existant. It can be controlled with repeated applications of fungicides, which are not registered for use by homeowners. It comes from stock grown from seed or cuttings. Plan now for substitutes in your landscape plans. Begonias are unaffected.
Google Downy Mildew and Impatiens and there are dozens of reputable sources giving the sad details.Here is one of the best:
Dthor- that is so awesome about the Four Seasons! I contacted a shopping center with infected roses recently. I only get up there perhaps twice a year so I am not sure what will come of it. I do wish I had written to the amusement park where I saw it last year. (Anyone going to Hershey Park this year?)
I wouldn't want to cost folks needless money in this economy but I really cannot stomach how these commercial sites are serving to infect and spread the disease by doing nothing. Heck, the shopping center has a Lowe's with a garden department in it. Do you think anyone should knowingly buy roses from a store surrounded by infection?
I wonder if a photo blog "Hall of Shame" for commercial sites with RRD would have any effect. I no longer get American Rose magazine, have they written anything about RRD lately?
You should contact your county extension office right away.
This disease has been pretty bad especially in VA.
You could offer the example of the Four Season in Irving, TX
You wrote: "I wouldn't want to cost folks needless money in this economy" ...
do you know how much money I have lost ? a LOT !
I had to remove roses I bought and loved for many years, paying somebody to help me ... and buy new plants ...
Preaching to the choir! I cannot think of how much money I have lost ripping out bushes over the past 2 years. I reported two nurseries to our state offices last year. The first nursery was investigated and found to be selling infected items. They "removed" their infected stock (but I'm not convinced it won't happen again...). The second was a local Big Box with clearly infected roses, all out for a weekend advertised sale. The extension officer wrote to me and said they investigated and found nothing. I knew then either they didn't investigate or they didn't want to tangle with the heavily loaded interests of the Big Box.
What I find shocking in Virginia is that I can find gardeners who believe this is wide-spread. "Experts" and commercial rose growers, however, give the impression that the rest of us are crying wolf. I am going to write back to the property manager at the shopping center and mention about the Four Seasons. I also need to figure out what county that shopping center is in...
This is truly troubling. When you google "rose rosette disease" the very first entry is the Virginia Cooperative Extension. The second is an article about the disease written by a gentleman from the Shenandoah Rose Society, which is in Staunton, Virginia. I have read in books that it is a problem in the midwest, but rose growing is not very popular here.
I went to a big box yesterday (Meijers) and they had almost nothing but Knock Outs but they were disease free. I do suspect that, becauase of the number of those (excuse me) awful roses grown in such close proximity by sellers and installed en masse by businesses that they are probably the jumping off point now.
I think your big box knew exactly what the problem was - that's why they were on sale. Only a handful of people in my former community grew them, and I have not seen a single one here. Sad to say my relative isolation protects me.
It sounds like the kind of winking and deal making that goes on in Chicago. Here, if there is a buck to be made and there are those willing to pay all kinds of ridiculous stuff goes on. I'm sometimes embarrassed that it is essentially my home town.
Wow! I cherish my neighbors & grow roses & plants to share with them visually & receive many compliments. I live in an older neighborhood where people take time to "smell the roses". As far as dogs go, I have roses along my fence line so that those passing by can enjoy the roses; instead of being barked at by my dogs. It's a blessing when neighbors appreciate each other and live in harmony. I'm glad to hear that your neighbors finally took action and hope that your plants remain disease free. : )
If you see a retailer of any kind selling an infected plant contact the local County Extension Agent. Explain to the agent what the plant is in exact terms and what the disease is in exact terms. He/she should direct you to the local authority repsonsible for nursery inspection. It may even be the extension agent him or herself. I worked at a retail nursery where a shipment of pine trees were ordered returned to the wholesaler because of a disease issue by a Federal inspector. They could not be sold. No diseased plant material can legally be sold.
At least find out how to report a problem if you should see one the future.
What I don't understand is why some of the big box stores totally neglect their plants. I've seen them almost dried up from neglect. I purchased a Sunny Knockout rosebush for $6 last year that was suffering from neglect. I planted it in my veggie garden near the compost pile (fed weekly -- rabbit poo, banana peels, egg shells, tea & coffee grounds) to nurse it back to health before moving it to my rose garden. It is thriving and one of the healthiest roses that I've grown. I'm keeping it in the veggie garden where it's happy. I definitely got a bargain & feel no guilt for buying another rosebush! However, now I know to watch out for rose rosette disease in these bargain roses. I've learned from this thread that not only is it impossible to nurse an infected plant back to health, but it could infect all my healthy roses. I'm so glad that I came across this thread.
Big Box stores buy on consignment. They pay for only what they sell. They have no incentive to maintain the garden stock. Some nursery wholesalers provide temporary staff to the Big Box stores to maintain the stock, some dont. It eats into their profit margin. The worst thing that ever happened to nursery wholesalers were the Big Box stores. Big Box stores are repsonsible for putting a lot of crappy plants in unsuspecting gardeners' landscapes. Stay away from the Big Box stores. Visit an independant nursery retailer. You'll probably pay more but dollar for dollar you will get a much better return on the money you spend.
Oh, Snapple, I agree! Not only do they provide crappy plants, but the same crappy plants you see everywhere. Even the ones that maintain them well (Home Depot shines at that - their plants look incredible at the end of the season) it creates a monoculture of "what to plant this year". Even the ones who maintain their plants have the same plants that are heavily advertised, and therefore end up in every garden on the block.
Another reason to visit independents is to keep them in business!
I'm just finding this thead. Last year I pulled and burned 7 roses due to RRD. Yes, I'm in Va. We have a town paper that comes out every Wed. Early in the year I read an article written by our County Extension Agent, Charles Lytton. He reminded people who received spray to kill the multiflora roses on their farms and fields to go check and make sure they were dead. If not, repeat the process. I had no idea the County had already taken action. I live in town but even in small, vacant lots you will find these roses.
If I can find the article I will scan & post so other agencies and believe Va is aware and taking action in the Extension commuity.
So far I'm holding my breath on RRD. The crazy winter/spring season may help or could hurt the situation. This is my beautiful Zeph taken a few days ago. It is about 4 years old and is blooming far earlier than normal. Maybe 3 weeks earlier than last year. We had 80s for much of the past 2 weeks.
I hope someone posts the information about impatients on the annual thread - early detection, as stated here, is so important.
Here are 2 pictures of RRD from my yard last spring.
Kathy, I just discovered your post. Thank you for posting these pics. Though it saddens me to look @ them, it helps me know what to look for in my own roses. I decided to go out for a walk a few weeks ago on my lunch break to unwind and "smell the roses". I discovered that some of the knockout roses in the downtown plaza where I work look like they could have this disease. I hope that I'm wrong.
I just want to report that after my neighbor and the Four Season resort removed all their infected roses ...it seems that the Rosette disease has stopped in my garden. I have not seen infected plants in a while.
Green - You need to print out info/pics of this disease and tell them how dangerous it is to all roses. I had to take out another one yesterday. Roberta Bondar - a beautiful yellow rose. I put a heavy black trash bag over the rose (where the disease was) then cut those limbs off and then dug until I could get it all the way out. I took it to the garden lot to burn it.
Don't cut the limb and leave it laying b/c the mite will go to a new, live limb. I put Sevin dust on them if there is a small limb or new growth that appears infected. It should kill the mite but if the rose is infected there is nothing you can do. I thin Sevin has helped me save a few - or prolong it. You have to watch the roses every few days.
Unfortunately I recently rogued two bushes with RRD out of a bed of six english roses.
The classic thick red thorny canes with deformed leaves appeared out of nowhere this spring.
I've got three six-year-old climbers and fairy hedges that so far look ok (fingers crossed).
Kathy- I have a Zephie too and I'm hoping she's ok?
Her new growth is very red and I'm so scared she's got the virus now too.
Being thornless makes observation difficult as well.
What is your spray protocol?
Has anyone tried sulfur miticide and had any success controlling RRD?
Same here - they have no solution but are trying to kill out multiflora roses in fields. I read something that suggested Sevin if caught early and the infected cane removed at the base and removed from the site and burned.
I sprinkle Sevin dust on the area after I pull the cane. I've lost one this spring. Holding my breadth on my Santana twins at the arch.
I burned the two with the infected canes, now I'm just concerned about keeping the garden safe. Guess I've got paranoid eyes, so any red leaves are on my radar!
Which roses are showing hardiness to RRD in y'alls experiences? I've noted a commenter had a Cecille Brunner survive RRD.
I took a few snaps of my Zephie that has me angsty. Hopefully she's ok…
Also read about an organic control for the wooly meanie mite, sulfur. I'd like to spray the nearby roses thru this summer for added protection.
Has anyone tried predacious mites? Found the following on GardenWeb. Sounds like mitey warfare!
There is no research on this that I know of. I have been encouraging Brooklyn Botanical Garden to diversify the ground cover in their rose beds from bare earth to harbor mite natural enemies. Bare earth = no natural enemies.
I have recommended sweet alyssum, ivies, marigolds, catmint as reservoirs for natural enemies in roses.
For the predators? We have recommended Neoseiulus fallacies ( a native that eats many things and will survive in the landscape on its own, especially with adequate ground cover).
We also have 2 new predators, Amblyseius swirskii comes in little bags that you hang on the plants that emit these predators for about 6 weeks, and Amblyseius andersoni, a mite that is specifically named as a predator of eriophyid mites. This one also requires ground cover for survival.
Carol S. Glenister Entomologist
I know, they look nothing like the crazy canes that surprised me earlier this week. This one is just busy and red, unlike the others.
Hopefully there's a cure on the horizon now that the virus has been identified:
Rose rosette was first described in the early 1940s and it has emerged as one of the most devastating diseases of rose. Although it has been seventy years since the disease description, the rosette agent is yet to be characterized. In this communication, we identify and characterize the putative causal agent of the disease, a negative-sense RNA virus and new member of the genus Emaravirus. The virus was detected in 84/84 rose rosette-affected plants collected from the eastern half of the United States but not in any of 30 symptomless plants tested. The strong correlation between virus and disease is a good indication that the virus, provisionally named Rose rosette virus, is the causal agent of the disease. Diversity studies using two virus proteins, p3 and p4, demonstrated that the virus has low diversity between isolates as they share nucleotide identities ranging from 97 to 99%.
I am sorry to say that I have joined this most unwanted club of people who have diseased roses. I came across this thread by accident this spring - about 2 weeks after my DH told me to look at the Pat Austin rose (planted in 2010) to see the "funny red growth" on it. I had never seen anything like it and although I tried to say it was "new growth", I did not really believe it. I cut it off. Then I came across this topic by accident. Surely "MY" rose could not have had such a dreadful thing! I have been watching it ever since. Yesterday I found "that funny growth" (red, distorted leaves, soft stems - looks just like your pictures above) again, came here to DG at once to see pictures and read this thread, and have now removed the whole plant and bagged it up. My other roses so far look okay. I don't care much about the 3 Knockout roses I have (sorry to admit it) or the Carpet roses (3 of those). But my very old Vogue roses are important to me (started with my mother 50 years ago). I will be watching them very closely. And I thought blackspot and Japanese beetles (which are coming!) were my biggest worry. This is awful. I don't dare get any more roses this year. I can just imagine how people feel who have really nice collections of special roses and see this stuff on a Knockout rose in a neighbor's yard!
so sorry for your loss.
Just make sure that you also will sanitize your pruners ... so you will not infect other roses with them.
This is just an horrible disease. The best we can all do is to keep talking about it with everybody that has roses.Call your city extension office.
Eventually somebody will find a cure.
Also, walk around your neighbor. It is very possible that somebody else does have this disease.
In my case, I kept have problems because my neighbor was loaded with infected plants and also the Resort across the street.
I am now ok ...after they removed their infected roses
So sorry and good luck for the rest of your roses ...
DonnaMack - I also googled vogue rose (after you mentioned looking it up) to see what comes up. The most prominent website has a bicolor rose of some sort. This is not the old Vogue rose I have, which goes back to the 1950's and can only be purchased from a couple of places now. I guess most people don't like it as it is very susceptible to blackspot. But I love it. I attached a picture below to give you an idea. It has a lovely fragrance. I was sorry this morning to find the year's first Japanese Beetle on a bud beside this one (THEY ARE HERE!!).
I agree the fear of any new growth is scary but your pictures appear to be normal - in my opinion.
Also as stated above clean pruners before you move to the next rose. I use full strength rubbing alcohol in my sprayer and am very careful to use my hands to take out a suspected cane then wash after taking it to the trash bag/burn pile so that my gloves are not infected. It's very helpful to everyone if you do go around the neighborhood and tell people about any infected rose you may see. Virginia is having a huge problem with this according to our extension agent.
Knowledge is the best action we can take now - educate people who may not be on the internet or even know about the disease.
I went to the garden at my old house (where the neighbor has a billion knockouts) to find what looks like the virus on one, but not the other of my Sea Foams. Interestingly, roses that are much closer to her crappy roses (Constance Spry and Zephirine Drouhin) are unaffected. I pulled the rose out, and now that I think of it, this rose has been weak for some time. It never took well, and had dead wood two years ago. So perhaps weakened roses are more susceptible. Or perhaps I am wrong about it's condition.
Last year I pulled out 9 roses from my 55ish collection, due to RRD. Today I took out 5 roses and I have a few that will probably be removed in the next few days - I want to make sure before I pull them out. The roses were formerly very healthy roses from Palatines & some were knockouts.
I went to mom's this evening and decided to look over the few roses in her yard (6 knockouts & 2 palatine roses). At least 4 knock outs have RRD just starting so I will remove these in the next couple days. She lives 3 miles from me and there has not been any contact with pruners or by any means.
I'm just sick from this terrible disease. I have spent a great deal of money and time - not to mention the love and joy of my rose collection but there is nothing I can do. I dug out Ice Girl, Tropicana, 2 knockouts, and another palatine rose which the name escapes me at the moment - today.
I have been very particular about cleaning pruners, removing dead or damaged canes/leaves, spraying, feeding, caring for my roses but this is something out of control in Virginia. No neighbors have roses.
Do not trade plants or buy from VA. It's not worth the risk. I have a garden lot where I took my canes/roots immediately after cutting them. They were burned right away. I can vision my yard without roses in the next couple years. It's so sad.
We must spread the word to people as quickly as possible. Please contact your extension service about concerns and if you have a local/town newspaper see if they will do an article about RRD with pictures and a description of the serious need to remove the rose properly, regardless of how much you love that rose.
The primary rose that seems to be affected are Knockouts. Am I wrong? Almost everyone who reports this disease mentions it on Knockout. Part of it might be the heavy selling of this rose, which is obviously not only virus prone, but virused.
I think that we should be discouraging people from purchasing them. And shame on Radnor for continuing to allow this virused rose to be propagated and sold. Conard-Pyle too.
I'm starting to feel the same Donna. I believe I will pull out all knockouts. I think we need to start a new thread with State, what roses have RRD, and at least gather some data for our extension offices.
In my part of NW Ohio - Lucas County to be exact - Knockouts are not affected, yet. Its rugosa's and hybrid teas most often reported here. Please don't condem Knockouts based only on anectodal accounts. The virus does NOT discriminate as to cultivars. The wild multiflora rose 'Rosa multiflora' is the most susceptible species and the main source for the disease.
I'm sure the virus does not discriminate. But it is common on Knockout and that rose is being widely disseminated. And it is everywhere - I cannot go out without seeing it. I don't see 'Rosa multiflora' in people's yards. I see Knockouts. Given that garden centers have tons of virused ones that they are trying to sell anyway, it seems wise to avoid them. It's not as though we are condemning a person. These are not anecdotes. They are real experiences, and they are popping up on multiple threads..
That is the reason I started the new thread, which few have posted their disease information for us to gather some type of info for RRD. I have it on knockouts, teas, freelanders, climbers. I do believe ANY and ALL garden centers/nurseries that sell roses should be made aware of this disease and what to look for...it would help to keep down the spread.
I have a ton of money in roses. Over 50 and probably 30 were from Palatines - meaning $18.95 each plus shipping. I took out 9 last year and 5 so far this year. I fear this disease!!!! People must be made aware and get in contact with your county extension agency with concerns. At this rate, in my yard, if the disease spreads over the next 3 or 4 years I may not have one rose left. Then you must wait 5 years, so I understand, before you can safely plant more roses. I hope in 5 years there will be a cure for RRD but not only will I lose a ton of money - I will lose the beauty and enjoyment I've been able to give to our 1910 home.
I was in four major garden centers today and did not see a single virused rose. That doesn't mean that they arent out there. It might have been pruned off, although I didnt see any obvious signs of pruning. For now, the nursery stock in this area seems clean. The disease is in the area however. Several members of my garden club report having it. They are diligent about removing and destroying the diseased plants. Some have gone the extra step of removing rose plants that look healthy that were located next to the diseased ones. So, for every infected rose they are losing at least two additional roses.
You can bet the rose industry is working furiously to breed resistant roses. Even if they found a resistant strain it could take decades to get it into production.
I don't see it here either, but note this excerpt from the Virginia Cooperative Society. Virginia is ground zero for this disease.
"History of Rose Rosette Disease
Symptoms that were undoubtedly due to rose rosette disease were described in the United States as early as 1941. Spread of the disease in the United States was intimately tied to the history of the multiflora rose, an exotic plant that was introduced from Japan in 1866 as a rootstock for ornamental roses. During the 1930's through 1960's, planting multiflora rose was recommended for erosion control, as a bird sanctuary and food source, as a living fence for cattle, for strip mine reclamation, and as a crash barrier on highways. This recommendation ultimately backfired. Multiflora rose can produce a million or more seeds per plant and can propagate itself vegetatively as well. It quickly spread and is now declared a noxious weed in several states.
Multiflora rose is highly susceptible to rose rosette disease, so much so that the disease was initially considered a potential biological control for multiflora rose. Even now, some people suggest introducing infected plants into areas with multiflora rose to control this weed. Most rose growers, however, are very wary of this recommendation because rose rosette disease can spread quickly from multiflora rose to cultivated roses."
I understand it is a problem in Ohio. We don't have it in Illinois yet, but I routinely decline cuttings and buy my roses from Canada. It's lile the lily leaf beetle. It's a horrible scourge in New England. We have none of them. But I am very careful not to accept plants from others unless I can quarantine them for at least a few weeks. Like the hosta virus, it was spread by people sharing plants.
Those of you who are finding the disease in your roses - do you feel they are being infected in your garden or that you bought sick plants? (Since the article above mentions that the rose can be diseased for a season before it shows all the signs.)
It is interesting how many large municipal and corporate sites seem affected. They buy large numbers of roses, probably from wholesalers, which the big boxes do too. Plants in municipal settings are usually chosen for their ease of care (read, ability to survive neglect). They are often acquired at a fairly low cost from mass producers. And then, it seems, they are pretty much ignored.
Up here, people use Feather Reed grass and Autumn Joy sedum, purple coneflowers and black eye susans that way. Plants like salvias and agastaches and anemones. Sears' corporate site has tons of the most gorgeous allegheny serviceberries, which are very healthy and very low maintenance. Millennium Park uses them too. There are only a handful of plants, used in sweeps. They like them because they can tolerate heat and drought. The emphasis is on what are regarded as native plants.
At the end of the day, I suspect that we will find that many homeowner infections started within some distance of corporate or municipal sites, and originate with wholesale roses planted in large amounts - which creates a great host sites for the mites.
A perfect example of why monocultures are bad. It's just so unfair to the unsuspecting homeowner. And I wonder why Conard Pyle and Bill Radnor, who MUST know about this, don't put the word out and recall the roses. I've read articles in which they claim that they are "desperately trying" to find a cure. Here is an article from Oklahoma that makes that claim. Apparently some of the earliest KO's were planted there, and they are having the same problem.
I think that responsibility would entail alerting people to the problem and suggesting the roses be removed. I suspect that commerce is involved in their little press releases. I find it all pretty disgusting.
I lost The Fairy (2 of them) yesterday. They were huge and I also lost 2 Sunny Knockouts. That's 9 this year, 9 last year of my 52 roses. I posted pictures of the disease on FB in hopes of spreading the word as much as I can
Saturday brought more damage control. We pulled out, with the bobcat & a chain, 2 huge knockouts. I took 2 Joseph's Coats out, one was beside one of the knockouts and it was weak but not showing disease and the other I pulled because it was sad looking but not near any infected rose.
I decided I'm going to pull the weaker roses in hopes of saving my most loved roses - Santana (2) and Rosanna. I won't pull out nice roses but some that I've had for many years, transplanted to this house 6 years ago, and that are just not doing so great. Some were box store roses - mainly tea roses.
My yard is definately infected so it's not like I don't have something to gain by pulling roses that I could easily live without just as a damage control issue.
For me, the knockouts are the most infected of all that have been removed. The Fairy (1 of them) was clearly infected but not as destorted as all of the knockouts.
I'm pretty sure my "Fourth of July" has it, and my "Flower Carpet Amber" may, and possibly my R. "Heritage". I keep telling myself to take pictures, get it confirmed, and yank them out. But it goes against the grain to destroy roses in bud. If I know for sure, then I'll have to. You guys who have been so proactive about removing your diseased roses: you're made of sterner stuff than I. Any tips on how to steel myself to take the pictures and remove the roses?
You, as with the others here who have taken out a blooming rose that 'really does produce well' are part of what will stop this terrible disease! You have to be part of the future of roses.
It's like my mom. She has 6 or so knockouts, 1 New Dawn climber and her mother's vintage rose bush. Mom thinks "they look great and produce beautiful displays, so 'lets just cut out the bad part' so I have a nice yard. But I said no way. If YOU know for sure it has RRD then it must go. Sad but true and when in doubt take it out, as they say.
I'm bummed about living in this lovely 1910 home where we have lived for only 7 years come this fall. The only plants in this yard were 2 ornamental pear trees- which I hate, a messy pussy willow in the back, and one rose of sharon - oh and 4 old and messy pines. I had 52 roses, etc and each day I see red stalks I feel a sigh then watch each day. If there is no cure, and if they are currently right about a 5 year replant safety net, then I will probably not live here or be able to deal with replanting a lost rose garden.
Make sure you have RRD and do what you feel is best for you and your area.
I'm not sure what to make of this. Trim out the infected growth and then spray with straight 3% hydrogen peroxide during the cool part of the day?
As much as I am a skeptic of any treatment or cure not backed by university scientific research testing and trials, I personally would try it for a short period of time. I say 'short period of time' because if its just anecdotal bunk, then I'm allowing the disease to spread while I wait for the treatment to produce any discernible results. My rose collection is really quite small, but still precious to me. The temptation to try it would be pretty strong.
I'll try again with new growth in a couple of weeks. I didn't get a good shot of the growth pattern that bothered me: a flower scape with an unusually high number of tiny buds on finely divided stems with many feathery, leafy petioles.
I found some infected roses in my back yard yesterday and I'd like to share pictures with you.
At this time of the year it is very easy to think a rose has RRD because the plants are producing millions of new red growth.
Unfortunately this is Rose Rosette Disease ... sight
I have been away from DG for most of the summer, and away from the RRD thread.
I'm back with a cautionary bit of advice: Plant something to replace your roses right away. ANYTHING! I was good at first, trying to plug holes in my garden beds but then I got depressed and left areas where I had pulled out roses unplanted, unmulched, unloved. Now what do I have but a serious invasion of Creeping Charlie! Out of the frying pan and into the fire it seems. Now I have a whole new job of figuring out how to get this monster under control! The areas where I still had the will to plant, mulch, and love are doing fine (a bit dry, but fine).
Let me also say that there is solace in Clematis! Clematis, hardy salvia, and sedums of all kinds have lifted my spirits during this, for me, rose-free time. Something will always die, some bed will always need editing. All of us can find new plants to love. I am sure I will have room for roses again in a few years, or make room. I'm also planning a take-over (eventually) of somebody in my families Garden Scale train. RRD makes you want to forget drama and indulge in whimsey!
I'm definitely planning on replacing it, just gotta find the right vine for the spot. It's almost full sun and is clearly visable from the road so needs drama. The rose was perfect for that but oh well. .
Try (I know it's hard) to think of a loss as an opportunity to try something new. I lost 5 huge double file viburnums, all in one winter, after they had reached maturity and were the highlight of my yard. This three of them. What I can't show you are the huge double flowers, and the spectacular fall color. I replaced them with other plants I came to love.
Is there something you dreamed of growing for which you didn't have room? If you can, it may ease your sadness.
For this spot, no. But I was looking around last night online and found a hardy carolina Jessamine that I forgot I had grown for a couple years before it died. It would have the drama I want and it hardy here, especially with mulch. So I will probably get that since it's also the color I want.
I assume that you’ve tried Howard Garrett's formula for treating the RRD? He promised just last Sunday on his radio show that it works and if people remove their rose bushes without trying it first, they were not very smart. You've gotta love that Howard!
Here’s the link to Howard’s newsletter on treating RRD:
"no comment" about HG.
You know exactly what I am thinking ...
I have been dealing with this problem for many years now ... I have tried so many things and contacted everybody ...
If his product DOES work, I want to see pictures and testimonials ...
I have read about supposedly resistant rose varieties but I can't find any data from a source like the USDA. I would be reluctant to accept recommendations from garden sites.
It's so sad. I'm actually happy that very few people within a mile of me grow roses. There are two. One person grows exclusively old garden roses, which is a delight. The other, judging by the cones, grows hybrid teas. I'm in the land of spirea, bearded iris and rose of Sharon. They do grow the most wonderful peonies.There are many homes from between 1894 and 1940, and they have established landscaping. Where I used to live, there were lots of new homes with open space for Knockouts. Here, people would have to remove plants to put roses in. And there are no commercial entities like hotels that would use them.
I just attended a 4 day horticulture seminar. The top plant pathologist for the State of Ohio gave a grim report about RRD. It is believed to be a virus ( vectored by a mite). The same virus was identified in 84 of 84 diseased plants. The final comformation step will be isolating the virus, innoculating disease free plants and getting the same disease symptoms. The expected length of time a rose takes to die from this disease is 2 to 3 years. There is no preventative. There is no cure. There are no resistant varieties known at this time. The only strategy is to completely ( all roots included) rouge out the symptomatic plant, its immediate neighbors and dispose of the plants in bagged trash.
That's pretty grim alright! I assume the roses that are seemingly cured are just in remission and will show new signs of disease sooner or later as it is apparently systemic and not just localized in the deformed parts.
You are correct porkpal. When symptoms appear the virus has already spread through the entire plant, in both the xylem and phloem including the roots. Apparently its just a matter of time. It has me extremely concerned. I consulted for a landscape bed maintenance company last season and I saw this disease several times. The really bad part was the refusal of my client's customers to take the appropriate steps to remove the diseased plants and their companions. No amount of gentle explaining and persuasion could convince them that they were leaving a reservoir of infection that would spread to the neighbors' rose borders and beyond. They would only allow pruning out the symptomatic canes. And this was in an upscale gated community.
Worse than that was one bed landscape maintenance company that was not cleaning its pruning tools between plants or jobs. They probably did more to spread the disease than natural vectoring. I actually stopped consulting for that company because of that issue. Its so darned irresponsible. All they were interested in was saving time and saving time cuts costs.
There may be the possibility that we will have to move to St. Louis (MO) due to my husband work.
I was just looking on the internet at their Botanical garden and my eyes went to a rose picture and I start to read:
"Following the removal of rose bushes afflicted with rose rosette disease, the Lehmann Rose Garden will undergo renovations this winter that will be completed in April 2013 ... "
I clicked on your link and read the articles - but there is hope!
Although there is none of this disease anywhere near me, and the fact that I have ordered only own root roses for next year, I noted the comment about applying oil and think I will take the step of applying all season oil next year to my plants.
I am in a Master Gardening Program, and at the end of it they are going to give us the state of the art treatments for disease - they also update us periodically. They feel that it is important for us to be up to date. I will pass on any information that I receive about this disease. Thank you for passing this on.
Wow! drthor, I am a Mobot garden member & was last at Mobot about a month ago. I noticed that the rose garden was under renovation. Since there's always some renovation going on there, I didn't think anything of it. I hope that it stays on that side of the Mississippi River. That's really sad because the rose gardens at Mobot are beautiful. Let me know if you move here & maybe we can meet up at Mobot sometime. With my membership, you can be my guest. : )
Unfortunately, the Drift roses are particularly predisposed to this horrible disease. There seems to be a genetic link with roses and the disease that is in coloration - if the rose has a dominant red gene, this means WATCH OUT.
I love the Drift roses, bought three, soon after planting, the same season, there appeared a red "witches broom" on one. I was not educated about this disease, and tried cutting it out. Next year, it appeared in the same place.
I have some new rose shrubs, bought the year before the Drift rose bushes, and these are David Austins. They show no symptoms. They are not on the same side of the house, if that matters.
Out went the two rose bushes that were close to each other (a real shame due to their showy quality and supposed vigor) and the one in the back I just couldn't part with. It has lasted a year now without any symptoms. But if any arise, well, that very day will be its last.
I am very concerned that the growers might be introducing this disease with such "new introductions."
There is one thing you can try. Dissolve 2 aspirin tablets in 1 gallon of water. Use as a foliar spray. Watch the plant to see if new growth is still virus affected. There are a myriad of anectdotal reports that this works, if used regularly.
I have a suspect rose. It threw a distorted stem just as I was cleaning up the roses for fall. My lawn had also recently been treated for weeds so I can't be sure if its not herbicide damage. Since this rose is in a container I can easliy isolate it from my other roses and see what's what this spring.
I've read enough reports from credible people that I'm convinced it should be at least tried.
I haven't posted here in many months. I do want everyone to be aware of Rose Rosetta Disease. Read and follow all details of disposal. Sadly after 3 years of fighting this problem I have 3 out of roughly 65 roses.
I had the most beautiful roses, mostly from Palatines, and sadly this disease combined with the very harsh winter leaves me without roses.
They say you must wait 5 years before replanting. Don't think I'll be doing that.
I love seeing all of my beautiful rose photos but it's very important to spread the word to every who grows even one rose.
Maybe this disease is why Pickering was stopped for a year from shipping to the US. Not that their roses have this disease, because they do not. I have ordered mostly old garden roses from Chamblees and Roses Unlimited, and this year am happily adding Pickering back to the list.. If I could advise anyway - do not purchase your roses anyplace where they are sold in large numbers in close proximity to one another. Garden centers tend to have large numbers of Knockout and Drift roses together. Many of the garden centers I used to go no longer stock old garden roses, and have gone to Drift and Knockouts. They pack them in, and I think that the mites love the monoculture.
I don't think that old garden roses are necessarily immune. I just think that they are not sold in garden centers where the possible transmission of disease is much more likely.
If you have a neighbor who has a rose that has the disease, the best thing to do is diplomatically let them know, telling them that the virus endangers their other plants (It is a rose disease, but they probably don't know that) and then offer to help them pull it out.
I live in a very large gated area.
When I discovered this disease I told my next neighbor about his infected roses.
He removed everything and now he doesn't speak with me anymore ...
There are too many infected roses around me ... it is not even worth my time and also making people angry ! So sad !
I hope soon will find a cure !
I try to educate people or worse businesses when I see their roses with the disease outside their office building - they don't care. I've lost 54 or so of my 65 rose in the past 4 years. Sad! Not only the cost of Canadian Roses but the time, love, caring that went into each one for 4 years until this monster disease came along.
OK! I was trying to help a friend with a different rose problem (turned out to be poor drainage, I think) and stumbled on this RRD thread. I have a beautiful Cinco de Mayo rose whose new growth is supposed to be red. But this year the new growth seems CRIMSON, which is really scary to me! In addition, a relatively new Belinda's Dream in the yard is having crimson leaves sprout as is a Francis Dubrueil (sp?) that I have been babying along for a couple of years. I only have one knockout (pink double) that I have been trying to kill for a couple of years and It doesn't look infected, but I may take it out anyway - taking up good space where I could put in a rose that I actually like.
Anyway, here is a photo of the new growth on my Cinco de Mayo. Do you think this is RRD?
thank you so much for sharing. now I have a better understanding of what to look for in RRD, if/when it gets to my area.
I will tell you that b/c I don't want another thing to worry about, I have stayed awayed from buying any more roses, particularly from east TX. Wondering if RRD is devastating sales revenues other there.
I read an interesting story on the fact that that Knockouts are supposedly an endangered rose in the south, because the prevalence of the virus is so prevalent. Apparently most of them were sold in garden centers.
The hilarious part is that Radner is saying that all you have to do is cut them all the way back in the dormant season, as though it was a fungus, not a virus. Here is the segment:
"Conard-Pyle, the respected Pennsylvania nursery that introduced ‘Knockout’ roses, suggests pruning back the plants by 2/3 while they’re dormant in late winter to remove any overwintering mites and eggs in the bud crevices. This is especially important for large landscape plantings of ‘Knockout,’ because the more bushes you have, the more mites you have, and it’s easier for the virus to spread."
Do you believe it!!!?
Here is a link to the entire article:
Thanks Donna for sharing this article. I'm with Vossner about avoiding new roses. I was on the verge of becoming a rose addict when I learned about RRD. Now, I've decided to just maintain my existing roses and hope for the best.
I'm oddly fortunate in that no one who lives around me grows roses. I used to think it was a shame but I am happy about it now.
I have a couple of clients about 15 miles away and both they and just about everyone around them has at least a couple of Knockouts. Theirs are disease free, but I have been discouraging them from buying them. I chewed out one client for not only buying Rainbow Knockouts but asking me to install them in large raised planters. Rather chagrinned, the client explained that they wanted something that bloomed a lot - which Rainbow doesn't by the way. And they died. This year I replaced them with a pair of the 9th century polyantha Marie Pavie, which not only bloomed just about continually but has a wonderful scent. They asked me to please put them in the ground in a spot where they can see them better and enjoy their scent.
I got all of my roses this year from Pickering, Roses Unlimited and High Country Roses. Many of mine are old garden roses, which don't tend to be raised in packs and sold in placed where the virus can spread. I moved three years ago, so I replaced all but one of my 23 roses. I'm up to 30 now and really enjoy them, but I have been growing roses for a dozen years and know what to pick. So many people have been converted to roses and have the misfortune to buy Knockouts. It's sad that they have finally been converted and have to deal with this. What's even sadder are old garden rose lovers who added a knockout or two and have now lost most of their roses. I think that dear Dr. Thor, who provided us with such great information, is one of them.
thanks again for your nice words and information.
I don't think that the RRD is prominent on Knock out roses. I think you see a lot of Knock Out roses infected because that is what 90% of the people grow as a rose plant.
My garden was made mostly by antique roses. I did studied all their ratings and characteristics before planting. I bought mostly of my roses online from "Heirloom Roses".
My first infected rose variety was Marmaid, which is a climbing rose with a rating of 9.8. I had 3 of them 30' tall. 80% of my antique roses are dead by RRD and the only 3 Knockout shrubs I have are NOT infected.
I just removed 8 Mutabilis roses last week and replaced with Persimmon tree and Pomegranate bushes.
While I drive around my neighborhood and I watch all of those infected roses, I wonder why people still have them ... don't they see that they are ugly looking ... so sad
I do agree with you that no rose is really immune to this terrible disease. I think that any rose sold in close quarters to infected roses is doomed. And that's why KO's are so infected - because they are sold in large number and clustered together.
My clients KO's are all healthy. One person owns seven, but a lot of people only have one.
Wow, do you think the source of all of your infections could be the rose from Heirloom? I ordered The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild and Jacquelyn Du Pres from them. I also got Jude The Obscure because it was sent instead of Fairchild and they told me to keep it. My observation about their roses is that they take an extended period to develop, and that roses I bought from an equally own root oriented grower (Roses Unlimited) are three times the size in half the time, but other than that they seem fine.
A lot of people leave dead plants in their yards. Several people around me have ten foot plus suckers growing out of their trees, which look just awful and can be corrected with a pair of pruning shears. But I think that some people are simply not interested in their gardens and view them as a necessary evil that comes with buying a house.
I bought Fuyo Persimmon - self pollinating. I love persimmons ... then I learn that its tree is so easy in the DFW area and that the fruit drop when ripe ... A MUST HAVE!
I really don't know who did start the RRD in my neighbor. The Four Season hotel across the street had all their roses around the perimeter infected and the next door neighbor had also all infected roses (I know that they shopped at Home Depot) ... it is hard to know where it came from ...
I'd been away from DG for a few years, and have been catching up on forums and threads and came upon this one. I've lived and gardened here for over 7 years now, and the first year saw my first case of RRD. Like many of you, did some research and found the awful truth. This house had sat empty for 2 years before we moved in, and there was a lot of wild growth to tame. One by one, I saw my roses infected, and each got one try at cutting the disease out, but in all but one case, the disease returned, and the plants were removed and destroyed. In clearing out rampant growth in fence rows and around the property, I found infected multifloras, some hiding in mature blue spruce trees, climbing nearly to the top, but very well concealed from sight. After removing the "Typhoid Marys", it has taken a few years of eliminating new cases of infection, but finally I have gone a whole year without any new cases. Thankfully, I have no neighbors close (this house is on a large tract of farmland), but just keeping watch on the fence rows is a task. And I'm so glad I don't live down town, where I see infected Knockout plants on Main Street and in some commercial plantings.
The one plant that (knock on wood) showed infection on the tip of one cane, Folksinger, has gone a whole year without showing any more symptoms, and actually performed better than it ever has last year. We had a rough winter last year, and I saw more winter kill than I have in many years (my huge Leontine Gervaise was killed back to the ground). Spring looked pretty bleak for roses around here, but the survivors did slowly rebound from the harsh winter, and finally I saw a growing season without the virus.
So finally, I'm allowing myself some new Roses! I poured my attention into other beloved plants during that time, but nothing replaces a Rose. Placed my first order just after Christmas with Palatine, got my wish list well under way with Chamblees, and perusing Reagans and Garden Valley Ranch. During that time, I wouldn't even allow myself to look at rose vendor sites. It feels like a breath of fresh air to contemplate roses again!
Best of luck to all of you dealing with this horror!
I am happy for you.
Here the RRD is all over the neighbor and there are so many gardens that are infected ... I don't have the energy to educate all of those persons ... they might think I am crazy.
On January 21st in Dallas there will be a ROSE ROSETTE ERADICATION CONFERENCE http://collin.agrilife.org/event/rose-rosette-eradication-conference/
So sorry to hear your issues have been ongoing, but that is a positive step and good to know enough people are aware of the issue to warrant a conference. I think that may be on the way to happening here. A few years ago I toured the University of Kentucky arboretum and while perusing the Rose garden I found several plants infected. I'll go back this year and see what has happened as a result.
So far there is no solution.
I had a per-view of the conference ... and practically they are trying to educate people on what to do when this disease will appear in their garden = remove the infected rose.
It is good ... but they are moving very slow.
They should have listen to customers like us 5-6 years ago when we did discover the problem.
My solution is to stop buying and planting roses in my garden.
I don't want to spray or introduce any pesticide here.
Sorry ... I am very sad !
I understand, it is such a sad thing to give up something we love so much. For the last 6 years I've avoided looking at Rose forums or vendors, it was just too depressing. I won't use chemical sprays either- the garden is the last place I should need a hazmat suit.
When I first discovered RRD, I came to this forum and at that time no one else here was seeing issues with it. Like you, my eye quickly became trained to spot it, even while driving. Even back then, I had a sick feeling that it could so easily reach epidemic proportions. Unfortunately, I think that has come to pass.
I was just out in the frigid cold with the dog and looking around the gardens while she did her thing, and was thinking about this thread, our experiences with devastating losses, and picking ourselves back up. As I was watching the roses picked off one by one, I was also seeing the same with another beloved flower, Lilies. I had gotten some bulbs infected with Lily Mosaic Virus from a co op of Holland bulbs. I was already having a depressing time personally, so the garden typically being a source of uplift, also became rather depressing. I think that had a lot to do with my practically abandoning the garden for a couple of years.
In the time since, of reclaiming the gardens, and now moving forward with plans I'd already had in place, I'm now at a much more peaceful place with it. While reclaiming the gardens, I was so inspired by all the survivors, so many tenacious and beautiful plants that still bloomed their hearts out among the weeds. I gradually was able to shift my thoughts about what I missed, to thoughts about what was still out there.
While I'm sure I'll always end up collecting quite a few of any beloved plant species, I have come to the conclusion that keeping the garden diverse, with a broad spectrum of plant species, has resulted in a healthier garden overall. It lessens the chance of a pathogen wreaking such havoc on the entire aesthetic of the garden. No matter how old I get, the garden just keeps teaching me, keeping me on my toes...and keeping me young I suppose :-)
I hear you, my friend. I went through something similar, and wondered if I would have another garden. I was sad for the plants I would never have again, the beautiful hardscaping, the design. My new yard was loaded with the invasives and the commonplace.
But as I have moved on to a very different kind of garden I have found, as I hope you will, joy in creating something different if not necessarily new. I felt free to remove the shrubs that were really just big seedlings, the invasives that simply consume other plants, and began to seek out my favorites as well as new plants. Half the fun has been utilizing new vendors. My original yard came with wonderful viburnums but I did not choose them. I was introduced to Classic Viburnums, Gary and Sue Ladman's Nebraska company, and bought 7 of my 11 from him. In the place of a carlesi, I now have two compact carlesis that are not yet in commerce. I exchanged a prunifolium for a cultivar called 'Forest Rouge'. I also got some old favorites. I found a smaller acer griseum. I thought I'd never have another! I got shrubs from Plant and Gnome. And plants I couldn't have before because I too much sun.
And let me say that you will be amazed at how quickly it happens.
Thank you Donna, you are so kind and well spoken :-). It has indeed become a labor of love again and the joy has returned, I think even stronger than before. By golly, we gardeners are as tenacious as weeds! We WILL grow beauty some how, some way...
Updates on RRD in Dallas = entire neighbor and city infected.
Nobody removes infected plants, instead they keep trimming them.
I also noticed that somebody removed infected roses and planted new ones exactly in the same spot.
Here a very sad article (My garden used to look like his a few years ago too) http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1232240/
Here is a link to an article in Southern Living. It refers to the "deadly threat" to the Knockout rose. I read another article that referred to it as being "endangered", a term most reserve for something rare and wonderful.
But the best part is further down in the article, in which it states that some moron from Conrad Pyle suggested PRUNING them. So, dear Dr. Thor, your neighbors are not entirely at fault. The article stated that the roses should be removed, but as you will see in the article, CP is indicating that you have the option of keeping them!
If you have the time, have a look at some of the comments to the articles. Some of the observations of people who grow them are really interesting, like the fact that for miles around sections of North Carolina there are hundreds of masses Knockouts.
I discovered this thread tonight and have learned so much from it.
I have grown roses for 20+ years. I never saw rosette disease until last year.
At first I thought the Climbing Don Juan at my mother's house in Delaware was reverting to rootstock. Then the same bizarre, red growth, weak stems and stunted buds showed up on 3 Fairy roses in her back yard.
Then it ravaged a prized Zephirine Drouhin in my own garden, 50 miles away in Philadelphia.
All my pruning shears and loppers have been cleaned thoroughly with alcohol. I had used them in both gardens. So far my other roses show no signs of being affected.
For those of you who have gone through this horrible process - first off, I'm so sorry you went through it! I can't imagine how hard it was to get rid of something ou worked so hard with to bring such joy and beauty to your lives.
But, I'm wondering what signs to watch out for first. I have some newer roses coming from various sources, and I often get a couple bare root from Walmart and such in the spring. With the plants just breaking dormancy, what should I watch for first with everything? I understand the longer-term signs of the bright red stems, HEAVY thorning, and imperfect buds and leaves on the tops of the stems (plus them growing like CRAZY in a not-so-nice manner)... But, the early leaf-break is my first concern... All of my roses in the ground, of course, are just starting to break now!
I have a ton of items in my garden for butterflies, bees, and birds, so I don't want to spray any chemicals that could harm them... but at the same time, I'm somewhat willing to spray for mites, too - would neem oil help (in a soap-form)? How often would I look to apply if I see any signs in any of the roses? (If I saw signs, the rose would go and everything else would he heavy-treated for the next 18 months to help prevent more issues). Only one or two of the neighbors within a ¼ mile of me have roses at all, and I have dozens. :( I don't want to ruin their plants, either... And if we have to go chemical-warfare on the jerks for the short term, I'm willing to do so to an extent as well (no agent-orange, and no napalm. Other than that, I may be open...)
If I could make a suggestion, I would avoid buying roses from any source where they are sold in large groups of similar roses. In other words, if you go to a place and there are 30 or 40 of the same roses of ANY type bunched together, move on.
I have never purchased a rose from a big box store. The last time I bought one from a nursery was over ten years ago. I buy all my roses from mail order specialists: Pickering Nursery, Forest Farm, Roses Unlimited, High Country Roses and Antique Rose Emporium. These places do not buy a bunch of roses in containers from other entities and sell them. They grow them. Which is one of the reasons these companies sell roses for a maximum of about $18. They aren't adding a profit to roses grown by someone else. And several of them, I understand, guarantee their roses against virus.
And bluntly, I would not buy any Conrad Pyle roses. He developed KO's, and he had the gall to say that the solution to hanging onto them was to prune them low in the spring. See the link in my thread above.
I have 34 virus free roses, and if I lost them all like that I'd go nuts!