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Daylilies: High bud count daylilies? Is it important to you?

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bluegrassmom
Lewisburg, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 24, 2012
7:50 PM

Post #9019018

Just wondering which dls that you grow have a high budcount. I have been looking at newer intros and the range of budcount is from low to high. How important is it to you?

Myself, I think it is a important factor. If it is an amazing bloom that is great, but if you rarely see it that isn't too good. Please list some that do very well in you garden. I noticed one of Shooters is listed at 38! WOW

Thanks,
Teresa

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hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 25, 2012
4:45 AM

Post #9019176

I would love it if all of my daylilies had high bud counts but unfortunately they don't. I purchased Maxfield Parrish and Enchanted April several years ago because of the high bud count. Unfortunately, the counts never reached what they were supposed to be here in the north. I think climate has a lot to do with it. Because of that experience, I really don't put much stock in high bud counts any more for my area. I think northern hybridizers need to work on that for zones 5 and colder.

HazelCrestMikeB

HazelCrestMikeB
Hazel Crest, IL
(Zone 5a)

February 25, 2012
5:04 AM

Post #9019187

I wonder if the bud counts from our nothern hyb's are based on northern conditions or from their test gardens in the warmer climate or greenhouse. My best scape last year was on one of my second season plant Entrapment that had 55 buds. Happy that we have this medium to garner info from diffrent gardens in our zone. We should make a concerted effort this season to expand on this knowledge for future reference in regards to bud count and branching. Mike
Entrapment. I believe Laura called this a fasciated scape when I posted this pic last season.

Thumbnail by HazelCrestMikeB
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hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 25, 2012
5:20 AM

Post #9019210

Yes, that sure looks like it Mike.
IndaShade
Kylertown, PA
(Zone 5b)

February 25, 2012
2:24 PM

Post #9019766

Bob Faulkner had an EXCELLENT "Bobbin' on the Robin" article printed in the Spring 2011 Daylily Journal about bud count, and how he doesn't make crosses entirely by bud count.

I nearly died when he said "I'm not saying bud count doesn't matter. I try always to use one parent with great bud count, but the trendy thing is to ask just that... bud count... that question makes one sound savvy." It was a great article.

I try to stay in the 18-22 range in the north, but high bud count does not always equal a quality daylily. There is a whole lot more to it than that. I have some daylilies that have phenomenal bud counts, but I have to tell you that I enjoy the ones with lower bud counts just as well if they are unique and hardy.
Seedsower
Franklin, WI
(Zone 5a)

February 26, 2012
10:36 AM

Post #9020713

I go for beauty, not bud count. If it's a boring or look-alike flower I don't really care how many blooms it gets because I probably won't want to stop and admire it anyway. For general landscaping purposes I'd go for budcount to provide a longer lasting display but as a collector I'm more for beauty and the unusual.
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 26, 2012
10:45 AM

Post #9020730

I'd have to agree with that. I love a pretty face.

Joy

Joy
Kalama, WA
(Zone 8b)

February 26, 2012
10:49 AM

Post #9020737

Me too! I have enough daylilies, that if something isn't blooming much, something else is. A pretty face is what I look for.
Casshigh
Cartersville, GA

February 26, 2012
2:27 PM

Post #9020971

A pretty bloom is most important. We do look at bud count but if one with a high bud count isn't pretty, then why would we want it. I don't want one that is not a pretty bloom, whether it has a high bud count or not. I would like to have a pretty bloom and a high bud count on the same plant, so we can enjoy lots of pretty blooms.
Lyle627
Phoenix, AZ
(Zone 9a)

February 26, 2012
4:18 PM

Post #9021087

The most important thing about the scape is branching and spacing = I don't care how pretty a bloom may be if it is crunched against another bud or bloom, and not allowed to open full then the bloom becomes ugly - top loading is a big no no. I notice more hybridizers are no longer showing bud count on some of their intros..

I like a strong scape that will hold several blooms, and not bend, also show all blooms full...

Thumbnail by Lyle627   Thumbnail by Lyle627   Thumbnail by Lyle627
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mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 26, 2012
8:25 PM

Post #9021362

It's beauty for me too!!!
IRIS
Greenville, SC
(Zone 7a)

February 26, 2012
10:22 PM

Post #9021402

I like high bud count, Best if it has the spacing on the branches so they are not all crunched like Lyle pointed out above, But, More then anything, I like a Pretty Bloom! The Beauty of the flower is what matters most to me!
bluegrassmom
Lewisburg, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 27, 2012
2:36 AM

Post #9021453

Well, I also go for beauty but if making crosses, Lyle what is a good standard 20?
I know what you mean about being all jumbled and not opening fully.

No, if it is a dog, it would not matter how high it goes.
IndaShade
Kylertown, PA
(Zone 5b)

February 27, 2012
4:27 AM

Post #9021503

Bud count is one of those things that is going to be different for everyone, even if they are growing the same daylily. I personally think that the bud count you end up with in July or August is a direct result of the kind of weather you experience in April and May. In years where we have had warm springs, bud count has been up. In years where we have had recurrent freeze/thaws, it has generally been dismal on those same plants.

That said, I don't think you can hold much stock in the bud counts that are listed in catalogs. I have heard that you lose 6-8 buds for every zone you move north. Many southern growers can't grow their plants in the ground, so they grow them in pots full of compost with (as Bob Schwarz told me at a Lilyhemmer many years ago) "handfuls of Osmocote" added to them. This is definitely going to affect bud count in a positive way for the grower. Do they select and/or grow their plants in a greenhouse? This is also going to be a factor.

This also accounts for why southern plants seem to be the size of celery stalks when you get them, and Northern grown plants are smaller. But that's a subject for another thread. :-)

I think it's more important to look for good branching in a daylily, even if it only has 14 buds. It will certainly make a better display if the flowers have room to open correctly. Rebloom is another factor to consider if the bud count is a little lower than you like.



This message was edited Feb 27, 2012 7:29 AM
bluegrassmom
Lewisburg, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 27, 2012
4:31 AM

Post #9021508

I am glad I started this thread, thanks. I am understanding that you need to look at the total plant.

That really stinks about the lower budcount for each zone up.
I do believe the ones grown in containers are not to be compared to soil grown plants.

Teresa
Lyle627
Phoenix, AZ
(Zone 9a)

February 27, 2012
6:11 AM

Post #9021630

I feel a daylily, or seedling with good plant habit, good spaced branching should be considered with a 15 bud count. To put a pretty face on a seedling is easier for me than getting high bud count, and good spaced branching so I would say if you get a seedling with high bud count and a bloom not as attractive as you would like use that plant for a bridge to a seedling with a nice bloom, but a low bud count.
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 27, 2012
6:25 AM

Post #9021648

Yes, great idea!!! I have a couple of seedlings that I use that are real fast increasers and the bloom isn't all that bad.


This message was edited Oct 13, 2012 2:14 PM
mcash70
Logan Lake, BC
(Zone 3a)

February 27, 2012
8:11 AM

Post #9021810

Lyle you do a great job of combining buds, branching and the most gorgeous blooms.
DitchLily206
Madison, AL
(Zone 7b)

February 27, 2012
8:48 AM

Post #9021866

A little off topic, but one of the things that Larry Grace said when he came and talked to our club was that while he may hybridize plants in the greenhouse, all his plants are eventually grown outdoors. All photos he has are of field-grown plants.

Greenhouses are great for getting pollination, but not for seeing what the flower will look like in most gardens.

Back on topic: I agree with the general trend, pretty flower then branching and only then bud count.
corgimom
Pontotoc, MS
(Zone 7b)

February 27, 2012
9:57 AM

Post #9021935

Lyle, that is a beauty of a dl you showed above. What is it?
Lyle627
Phoenix, AZ
(Zone 9a)

February 27, 2012
10:55 AM

Post #9022004

Thanks Margaret!

Libby the daylily with the branching is one of my 2012 intros - The name is HABOOB, after the giant walls of dust we encountered this past summer.

virginiarose

virginiarose
Southeast, VA
(Zone 8a)

September 20, 2012
5:50 AM

Post #9280853

That is a beautiful flower! How wide is it?

susan

nutsfordaylily

nutsfordaylily
Halifax, MA
(Zone 6a)

September 26, 2012
8:15 AM

Post #9286786

I agree with Lyle that a daylily needs to have good branching to show off the flowers without them getting squished up against each other. High bud counts are not good if the flowers are too crowded. I do like high bud count, but I go more for the look of the flower than anything else. Then I check out height, diameter and habit.

Lyle, I love HABOOB. Very nice.

Karen
daylilydreams
small town, MN
(Zone 4b)

October 13, 2012
10:49 AM

Post #9303988

Up here in the north (Minnesota) I like a higher bud count on those that do not rebloom here. There are now more that will rebloom in the north thanks to northern hybridizers including our own Karol Emmerich. I have from extra early all the way thru late planted as I like lots of bloom for as long as possible. Even on those that will rebloom in the north I still look for higher bud counts to get a bang for my buck.

This message was edited Oct 13, 2012 11:51 AM
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

October 13, 2012
12:16 PM

Post #9304034

Like I mentioned previously, high bud counts don't mean that they will get high bud counts in my climate. I have purchased high bud count flowers only to have them get 15 buds. I have a few of Karol's and they do not get the high bud count here. Maybe after they have been here for over 3 years their count will go up. Don't know but will have to just wait and see.

nutsfordaylily

nutsfordaylily
Halifax, MA
(Zone 6a)

October 13, 2012
8:59 PM

Post #9304419

I would think that Karol's cultivars, having been grown in a northern climate, would continue to have high bud counts in the north. Like you said, Cindy, you might have to wait for the plants to settle in a few years before you get the bud count that they should have. Are they being sold as having high bud counts, or is it rebloom for the north? I understood daylilydreams to be talking about Karol's cultivars being northern rebloomers.

Karen

virginiarose

virginiarose
Southeast, VA
(Zone 8a)

October 14, 2012
1:22 AM

Post #9304507

Great thread, you all have brought up some good questions. I have been leaning toward the higher bud counts.

susan
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

October 14, 2012
4:26 AM

Post #9304541

I think they are mainly sold for northern rebloom. I only have 2 of hers Heartbeat of Heaven and Filled to Overflowing. I have had them both for 2 years and neither one has rebloomed for me yet.
daylilydreams
small town, MN
(Zone 4b)

October 14, 2012
7:59 AM

Post #9304683

Go to Karol's website and read her descriptions on each of her daylilies not all of them are rebloomers. What I look for is those that state they rebloom for making my personal selections. Her selection of rebloomers for the north is getting better each year. Rebloom IMHO also depends on your soil, the amount of sun and good culture.
http://www.springwoodgardens.com/previous.html these are her previous introductions and do not include the new ones for spring.

nutsfordaylily

nutsfordaylily
Halifax, MA
(Zone 6a)

October 14, 2012
8:30 PM

Post #9305408

I'll have to check those out when I get a chance. I've been leaning towards getting northern bred cultivars that are rebloomers, especially if they are recurrent (instant rebloom). I currently have one that does that for me, and that one is STELLA'S RUFFLED FINGERS.

Karen
hemlady
Melvindale, MI
(Zone 5a)

October 15, 2012
6:11 AM

Post #9305643

I have looked many times at her website, haven't always read the descriptions but I think I most definitely will from now on. Heartbeat of Heaven is listed as reblooming in Minnesota so I don't know why it won't rebloom for me. It is also listed as very fertile both ways and in two years I have only set about 3 pods on it, so I guess maybe she may be doing the fertility on the plants while they are in the greenhouse and not in the field.
daylilydreams
small town, MN
(Zone 4b)

October 15, 2012
10:00 AM

Post #9305954

Send her a email with your questions.

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