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Shady Gardens: Can you identify this plant for me?

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DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 19, 2012
11:48 AM

Post #9048878

Dear fellow gardeners,

I have just moved from a mostly sunny to a mostly shady garden, and some of the plants are unfamiliar. I now have hostas popping out of the ground, and I have removed at least 400 lily of the valley, but I have a plant I don't recognize, and I got no response on the invasives forum. My neighbor is allowing lots of them to grow but some people like invasives. Can you please identify this for me? It seems to like to grow under trees.

I'm trying to figure out whether I should eliminate it now. The lily of the valley is so ingrown that the root system is actually at the surface in some places.

Thanks

Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack
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postmandug

postmandug
Bardstown, KY
(Zone 6a)

March 19, 2012
11:53 AM

Post #9048881

Probably a "ditch lily"
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 19, 2012
12:36 PM

Post #9048932

From what I'm reading, I should get rid of them.

Thank you for the head's up!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 19, 2012
2:48 PM

Post #9049134

I agree - a lily of some type.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 19, 2012
3:17 PM

Post #9049177

They have spread from a neighbors yard, who siad that are orange, and I think they are daylilies. I hate orange, and I hate daylilies. I am working to get them out - not a party!

Thank you both.

Between the lily of the valley, white violets and daylilies, I have my work cut out for me. They also have a bunch of hostas, which I intend to dig up and possibly trade, to make room for roses and peonies.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 19, 2012
5:08 PM

Post #9049327

I'm not a big orange fan either but I'm okay with it if it's mixed in with other colors. Fought it for a long time. And I did edit daylilies last year. Foliage takes up way too much space for the short bloom time. Good luck with your editing.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 19, 2012
6:20 PM

Post #9049424

Cindy, how did you edit? Did you just dig, or did you use a chemical? They are spreading into the yard from both sides.
Noreaster
Maine
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 19, 2012
6:53 PM

Post #9049475

I love orange, personally, but those "ditch lilies" are supposed to be pretty aggressive. I love day lilies in bloom but agree that their foliage leaves much to be desired- especially later in the season after the blooms.

They can't be worse to dig up than lily of the valley, though!
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

March 20, 2012
3:10 AM

Post #9049737

Donna, I'd get rid of them also. In the shade, they rarely bloom anyway, just a bunch of foliage taking up space where otherwise you could put nicer things.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 20, 2012
4:54 AM

Post #9049807

The difference between the two is that lily of the valley is a piece of cake to dig up, and it shows itself quite well.

Digging up the ditch lilies is backbreaking! I wnted to kill the neighbors but just talked to the original owner (who is in New Zealand) and he ASKED for them. I could kill him!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 20, 2012
7:57 AM

Post #9050020

You do have to be pretty thorough in removing the ditch lilies. Pieces of leftover root will grow. I generally just dig the stuff out. The daylilies were much easier to remove since they're more of a clump than ditch lilies. Only thing I've ever tried chemicals on (out of sheer desperation) is Campanula rapunculoides and it just laughed at me.
Your inherited garden sounds pretty much like a lot pass-along plants - stuff that people will actually give away. Love lily of the valley but I wasn't aware until too late how aggressive it can get.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 20, 2012
8:37 AM

Post #9050076

Thank you Cindy, Weerobin, Norester and postman. I am just tackling it in stages. The previous owner ASKED for them and put them under a mature tree. Happily, the tree roots inhibited them somewhat, and those are less backbreaking to get out. As they get farther away from the tree they are far more robust. And the soil is very moist, which makes it messy but a bit easier.

You are being too polite. My inherited garden is filled with garbage - ditch lilies, lily of the valley and white violets. My duty now is to keep them from spreading to the neighbor on the other side. nd I want to keep them away from my plants from home, which are really coming along beautifully, because this soil is gold (years and years of letting the leaves fall and rot). So while I do have to pick up tons of leaves, the soil is heaven to dig in.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 20, 2012
1:28 PM

Post #9050381

In my book, having good soil makes a garden worth the other work. I also admit to having white violets but I do edit out the unwanted seedlings.
Noreaster
Maine
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 20, 2012
2:36 PM

Post #9050456

Donna, I inherited my Lily of the Valley, too. Only the previous owners never had a garden- just a wild mess where they threw some down under the trees. They also tossed in a few daylilies, but they were not the orange ones. When I decided to start gardening, I removed about half of the LOTV that was there, which for me was no easy feat since instead of soft soil under there, it's all rocks and roots with the roots of the LOTV wind around. Every year I "dig" out a bit more, which actually means I use a pick axe to loosen up the ground then remove whatever roots I can. I have plans to carve out another hunk of it this year. That said, I don't plan on getting rid of it altogether because I like it frames the front of my big hosta bed...and it's so pretty and fragrant in bloom. I would never intentionally plant the stuff, but I have a certain fondness for my patch of it. Oh, when I dig it out., I sink a plastic barrier in a trench around the LOTV I'm keeping, to keep from invading the areas I don't want it. So far, that has worked pretty well.

Labrador violets are something I planted and they do sprout up everywhere. I don't mind them too much...yet.

here is a pic from last year with the bed of LOTV in bloom, and one of the whole bed with the LOTV up front

Thumbnail by Noreaster   Thumbnail by Noreaster
Click an image for an enlarged view.

DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 20, 2012
3:58 PM

Post #9050532

Oh, Noreater, that is gorgeous. I think lily of the valley is love. I just don't want 500 of them, so I have removed them from areas I have cultivated.

As fir the dreaded ditch lilies, I have removed almost all of them from my side of the property line on the west. You can see a trail straight from the neighbor's property to mine. Well, you could. The soil is damp from rain, and you can see how the nasty things were actually choking each other out. They were in one's and two's but I was able to get out this clump. The section on this side of the fence is mine. Getting them out fron tree roots on the other side is interesting.

Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Noreaster
Maine
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 20, 2012
4:26 PM

Post #9050555

I was at nursery once, when I heard someone asking if they sold the orange day lilies that you everywhere. Now, with soooooooo many other varieties of DLs available, why choose that one, I wonder? I should have asked them. I think some people are nostalgic about them since they are so ubiquitous. I know that before I was really into gardening, I used to enjoy seeing them as I drive around because it seemed to be a sign that summer was really here. I bet if you put them in a bag on your curb with a sign, someone will be happy to take them off your hands! I've done that with my Lancifolia hosta that grows like a weed.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 20, 2012
5:01 PM

Post #9050590

Oh gosh, I couldn't curse anyone with this. They are growing into the yards on both sides of me. They are very difficult to remove. They kill other plants. I don't want people to come back and shoot me.

I do think I will offer my lily of the valley as a gift in pots to friends. They are easy to get out.

To be honest, I've always hated daylilies. I have a twisted sort of vision. I dislike anything ubiquitous. And I always research plants. I can't believe nurseries sell goosneck loosestrif. A lanscaper put four in a bed. They march through it and killed everything. When I pulled them out, some of the runners were four feet long. That was in 1998, and I still cringe when I think about it.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 20, 2012
5:15 PM

Post #9050606

Noreaster - beautiful design to your beds. And the plastic edging works for you? My neighbor has pachysandra next to my yard and it can really borrow under stuff if it wants to. Not a big fan.
OK - I'm guilty with the gooseneck loosestrife. Of course when I got it (free), I thought "vigorous" was a good thing.
Noreaster
Maine
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 20, 2012
5:27 PM

Post #9050626

Oh, I know, there are lots of things I can't believe they sell at nurseries, after reading some things on this board! I guess one gardener's "thug" is another one's treasure? I have admit, there are a lot of times I do want something that grows FAST. Like now, I want a vine to quickly cover a trellis to blockout my view of the neighbor's driveway and garage. But look up vigorous shade vines and you will find many horror stories!! So I just stare at that garage and dream...


Cindy, so far the plastic barrier (I use the cheap pound in garden edging fromWalmart), is working fine. Any little stragglers that pop up I will try to pry out or spray carefully with Round up. If there weren't so many rocks and roots under this bed, I would have used an even taller edging as barrier, which I've seen for sale online. But even the regular 5 inch stuff or whatever is working adequately. Now, across from the bank of LOTV, I also have a rapidly growing colony of Hay scented ferns that I admit, I planted. I think I will be doing a barrier for that this year so that they don't engulf my path.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 21, 2012
7:23 AM

Post #9051267

Some of my ferns can be quite adventuresome as well. They never stay where I want them. I do have to edit them sometimes. Not sure what type it is, originally given to me by a now-gone neighbor when we first moved here. Thanks for the info on the edging!
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 21, 2012
7:28 AM

Post #9051273

My sister-in-law was given the "gift" of some ferns that have consumed literally 80% of her yard. I'm not sure what it is but it's a quite large fern. Would you believe that she offered some to me? I just laughed, and then I pointed out that giving them away would libertate the other ferns she had to spread further.

Look out for gifts!!!!!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 21, 2012
7:40 AM

Post #9051280

At the time I "liberated" my lower garden from trash, roasting pans and old Christmas trees and tons on poison ivy, I was looking for "desirables" to start the garden. It is a more rustic space bordering on wooded wetlands so the ferns were a nice transition at the time. Guess I can't complain that over the 24 years that I've had to edit some of them.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 21, 2012
8:20 AM

Post #9051324

"Liberated" - I like that!
Noreaster
Maine
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 21, 2012
9:30 AM

Post #9051400

This will be my first year editing the hay scented ferns, and I'm *hoping* the roots won't be as problematic to remove as my LOTV. I have lots of other ferns that are very well behaved so far. I don't have Ostrich ferns, or Sensitive ferns, which are pretty aggressive, I've heard.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 21, 2012
4:44 PM

Post #9051903

That's it! Ostrich ferns. I recognize tham from Google images. You should have seen them in her yard. She started with one clump, and now has at least 50. And on they march!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 21, 2012
5:38 PM

Post #9051977

Donna - I used your term. :)
I'll have to check on my ferns. I thought they were common woods ferns but I'll have to check the ostrich fern pics. I have those too. I'm a glutton for punishment.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 21, 2012
5:58 PM

Post #9052002

I was looking around my yard and was startled to find that a japanese painted fern 'Ursula's Red' survived and is breaking doemancy. I have never successfully done it. It must have sensed my hope and pulled itself over the hump "make it through winter! Yes! I can dio this!"

And anemone Whirlwind, which almost died at my house, made it through the winter too.

The previous owner's hostas are popping up everywhere. I am of course the only person in the world who isn't crazy about them. They weren't big on companion plants so I started to dig in this mound of dirt by the house and these scary pointed things were looking at me. I'm not even sure how many I have, but it's at least ten.

Does anyone know what this is? My impression is that it's a keeper, and it looks somehow familair, but I've never grown it and it is clearlt a part shade plant.

This is such an adventure!

Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Click the image for an enlarged view.

postmandug

postmandug
Bardstown, KY
(Zone 6a)

March 22, 2012
6:01 AM

Post #9052482

Looks like a Bleeding Heart.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 22, 2012
8:14 AM

Post #9052646

Yes! Yes! I realize now I saw one in that yard last year.

Thank you! I will walk delicately around it.

Donna
Namaste250
Pittsford, NY

March 22, 2012
2:14 PM

Post #9053073

The only way I finally got rid of my ditch lilies was to cover them with cardboard and mulch - after a lot of years of digging. Still can't get rid of mint though. What an adventure seeing what comes up!
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 22, 2012
2:53 PM

Post #9053118

Well, I have moving boxes and mulch. And for the first time, the adventure of things coming up is a very different experience!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 22, 2012
6:57 PM

Post #9053403

Eureka! Have found excellent solution for ostrich ferns in unwanted places! DD and I were walking through the backyard this afternoon and she spied the fiddleheads on the ostrich ferns, clicking away on her camera. She then posed the question about eating the fiddleheads, which neither of us has tried. We were game so went collecting the fiddleheads from invaded territories. She lightly sauteed them in butter and garlic and they still had a bit of crunch to them. Must say I prefer them to asparagus (of which I'm not a huge fan).
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 23, 2012
1:33 AM

Post #9053580

That is really funny!

The previous owner had a billion hostas they let spread, and they were wandering into both my peonies and lilies. I was hacking away at the when my next door neighbors came over and said - oh, you don't want those? And brought over a wheelbarrow and removed about ten. They are coming back for more. I have at least 25.

I have now discovered the down side of really good soil. Ditch lilies, lily of the valley, violets and hostas reproduce like crazy and kill everything else. Seeing a hosta entangled in the new growth of a really beautiful and out of commerce lily was gross.
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

March 23, 2012
3:29 AM

Post #9053597

Donna, you're yard sounds like mine! It should be fun throughout the rest of the spring seeing what comes up. And there are lots of plants which will thrive in a woodland setting; I think you'll get a kick out of transforming it from neglected jungle to a woodland garden!

But I also want to come to the defense of the hostas of the world! I'll admit I have some overgrown 'generic' hostas which are pretty boring. But there are many other beautiful choices which come in an astonishing array of colors and sizes and they're really adaptable to a wooded setting. Flowering options are much more limited in the woods, so foliage variation takes on more importance. How about giving them another chance??
#1. A small golden hosta nesting next to a 'knee' at the base of a bald cypress.
#2. Variegated hosta called Gypsy Rose. (Next time I'll move the extension cord!)
#3. One of my favorites is a tiny (just couple inches tall) hosta which spreads like a groudcover called kifokurin Ko Mame (?sp). I've got patches of it scattered around where it fills in beautifully between rocks, tree stumps, etc.

Thumbnail by Weerobin   Thumbnail by Weerobin   Thumbnail by Weerobin
Click an image for an enlarged view.

DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 23, 2012
5:28 AM

Post #9053695

Dear Wee, your hostas are lovely. And I do want to keep some (as though I have a choice). But my soil is wonderful, and they are popping up everywhere. I would love some that are tiny. Many of mine are monsters. Running into the peonies, running into the lilies, trying to clobber the dicentra. So impertinent!

And I think they are the genetic types.

They can stay if they behave. And my neighbor loves me.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 24, 2012
6:25 PM

Post #9055734

I remember my dad taking a load of white variegated Hostas from someone that was pulling them out. He was generous in passing them around but they were never very vigorous and I think I only have a couple left after 20+ years. My dad doesn't "buy" plants so I buy them for him. He's more into cultivating the wild stuff.
Donna - you're so lucky to have great soil. I would think it's easier to pull out the unwanted stuff than to amend soil constantly. I have a few older Hostas that I refuse to divide and they're huge. I like the bold statement that a big old 'August Moon' makes.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 25, 2012
5:57 AM

Post #9056070

Oh, Cindy, I know how lucky I am! My first yard was clay and hardpan and I spent years composting spring and fall to make it manegeable. This guy mulched his leaves and threw them everywhere. You can easily sink a full spade into the lovely soil.

My neighbor came and took some more I am replacing them with oakleaf hydrangeas. If the would behave I'd let them stay. Some of them are large and variegated, some are smaller and green. But they don't seem to know how to play nicely with the other plants. So they have to pick up their ball and go home!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 25, 2012
9:17 AM

Post #9056324

I have a hard time getting rid of plants unless they have a new home to go to. I do need to be more aggressive in editing since some of my (not-so-smart) plant choices are 20+ years old. I still try to get my dad's Hostas to grow but they are definitely declining (don't know why) and are just about gone.

speediebean

speediebean
Somewhere in, MD
(Zone 7b)

March 26, 2012
1:57 AM

Post #9057105

One day when I grow up, I may have the "they don't play nice with others" problem, (heehee, that cracked me up!!!) but for now, I'm just hoping my verbena spread like they are supposed to in my "main" bed. I'm really looking forward to what they'll do this season, but for now already they're springing (no pun intended) back wonderfully after the big fat haircut I gave 'em a couple o' few weeks ago. The Hostas I plan to get for my back little shady corner are Patriots, I just need to finish by putting the compost on top (sheeesh it never ends, huh?). Only 2, I know they grow up to be big like Atlas. With luck, they'll thrive but be able to keep their ball and stay to play in my yard! < ;)
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 26, 2012
4:03 AM

Post #9057141

Well, they've just identified another invasive plant for me. I put in my front beds, all nice and organized, and this obnoxious little thing that looks like green petals and takes root, (and I'm told, makes blue flowers and takes over the world) has appeared. Time for a paintbrush and roundup.

Hostas, violets, ditch lilies, lily of the valley and dandelions make up about 80% of their yard. All of them aggressively spreading. Well, the neighbor just came and got more hostas (yes) so I can put in oak leaf hydrangeas and shade tolerant roses. The hostas are so competitive that areas that were clear in December when I planted now have those nasty spikes coming out of the ground. Next to ferns! Next to peonies! Next to roses!

This means war!
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 26, 2012
7:06 AM

Post #9057351

Donna - what's your new invasive? Creeping Charlie? Wow - you still have sneaky Hostas coming up after removing so many?
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 26, 2012
7:41 AM

Post #9057392

Actually I have creeping Charlie around my trees. I always managed to keep it out of my old yard at home.

And the new invasive is in this picture, around the base of the rose. Does anyone know what this is? It popped up within days. I started trying to pull it out, and it's all over the bed. The previous owner said it spreads like wildfire. Round up on a paintbrush!

The previous owner used to put leaves and branches through a chipper and spread the contents around the yard. That's pretty much all he did for the yard, but the soil is unbelievably wonderful. Unfortunately it is wonderful for any plant that hits the ground. The hostas are throwing drunken raves. I only spot some of them when they poke their nasty heads up near a treasured plant.

Did I tell you about the billion maple seedlings? I never permitted maples in my old yard, except for a paperbark maple.

Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Click the image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 26, 2012
10:08 AM

Post #9057623

"Drunken raves" - LOL! Hmmm - could your little seedlings be blow in weeds? Or maybe the native Commelina? http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=coer Or maybe the dreaded cottonwood seeds germinating? Can't tell what they are at this point.
kneff
Dearborn, MI
(Zone 5b)

March 28, 2012
11:21 PM

Post #9061372

I, too, moved from a sunny garden to a shady one 36 years ago, and it took me a while to appreciate the subtleties of a garden where texture, plant shape, hues of green, and delicate flowers (especially spring ephemerals) provide the beauty. The sun-loving plants I introduced survived, but didn't thrive, growing leggy and flowering sparsely. Ironically, I wound up replacing them with the very species I had so quickly removed before giving the garden time to reveal itself to me. Several kinds and sizes of ferns and hostas, plus clumps of Japanese forest grass and variegated Solomon's seal anchor the space, and are maintenance-free. I love the old-fashioned plants that my father and grandmother grew, and that I fashioned into bouquets as a child--violets, lily of the valley, vinca, chionodoxa, trout lilies (I called them addertongues), and look forward every spring to the understated show of epimedium, hellebore, trillium, old-fashioned bleeding heart, and celandine poppy. Admittedly, it's not the most orderly place, because many of these plants happily relocate on their own, but I really enjoy the serendipity. I never pull a seedling until I know what it is, and there are delightful surprises every year. It also seems to me that plants that come up on their own are the healthiest. I used to think I could control Mother Nature, but now I'm going with the flow...
Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

March 29, 2012
4:17 AM

Post #9061459

Kneff, you sound like my kindred spirit.
Except I'm pulling seedlings constantly, otherwise my yard would revert to eurasian honeysuckle jungle in about a minute.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 29, 2012
6:33 AM

Post #9061597

Did I somehow give the impression I can't find plants from my own yard that suit the lessened light? Not so. Actually, my yard had a northern side and I grew my own shade with ornamental trees, so many of the plants in my yard have made the transition beautifully:

Heuchera Firefly
Chionodoxa alba
Athyrium Nipponicum
Athyrium Nipponicum 'Ursula's Red'
Peony Burma Joy (yes, it grew and bloomed in shade)
Athyrium felix femina
Hydrangea Querquefolia Snow Flake
Hydrangea Querquefolia Snow Queen
Chasmanthium latifolium
Epimedium sulphurum
Anemone x hybrida Honorine Jobert
Anemone Wirbelwind
Polemonium caeruleum
Bergenia winterglut
Primula japonica
Digitalis grandiflora
And several geraniums, like Biokovo, that were at the foot of a big rose to keep it in shade most of the day.

And there are others I simply can't remember off the top of my head. I do I wish I could get my mertensia and bloodroot.

I think that some believe that shade and color don't go together, but I find that's not true for me. Many of my plants are cultivated, some are native, but I do indeed like color. There was always subtlety, especially in texture and form. Sometimes I pick up a hint that color, especially from cultivated plants is shade, is considered crass, and that one is at a higher level of refinement if one's gardens have little color. So be it. There is something for everyone, and that's not for me. I dislike impatiens, but I also dislike the invasive plants people grow in shade: hostas, ditchlilys, and native weeds. Texture is my thing. As you can see from the pictures.

So to each his own. Frankly, the more color I can introduce into the shade, particularly from plants I grow myself, the more I enjoy it.

Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack   Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Click an image for an enlarged view.

CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

March 29, 2012
6:44 AM

Post #9061606

I think my favorite Epimedium (so far) is E. 'Sulphureum' with that beautiful yellow color. I do tend to love all of the pastels of spring and tried to keep that color theme going all summer. By July/August when a lot of the shade plants are done blooming and everything is green, I just need some color to accent all of the leaf colors and textures.

speediebean

speediebean
Somewhere in, MD
(Zone 7b)

March 29, 2012
7:20 AM

Post #9061640

Oh Donna, what lovely texture and colour combo's!!

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