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Tomatoes: Tomato seedling leaf spot identification

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ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 9, 2012
10:19 AM

Post #9075576

Hello everyone,
I posted this in the Beginners Vegetable Forum but it was suggested that I move it here. I purchased some tomato seedlings to plant this spring and out of the ten plants I picked out two have spots on the lower leaves (image attached) I have no idea what is the cause. The plants are Parks Whoppers and are the only ones of this type I purchased. The other eight are of varying types and do not have this problem. Does anyone recognize these spots. Should I go into decontamination mode. I have been researching on the internet and have yet to find a comparable example. I am thinking fertilizer injury or maybe TSWV Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

This message was edited Apr 9, 2012 1:24 PM

Thumbnail by ilndmon   Thumbnail by ilndmon
Click an image for an enlarged view.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

April 9, 2012
11:10 AM

Post #9075661

I used to grow African Violets and if water got on the leaves, I would see spots like that when the water dried.
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 9, 2012
12:46 PM

Post #9075803

Thank you for your response Honeybee. I thought that at first too. That is why I thought it may be fertilizer injury. The damage is in the surface of the leaf. It does not penetrate through to the other side. My concern is that it will spread to my other plants. I have the two in question quarantined for now.
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 9, 2012
1:26 PM

Post #9075859

Its not TSWV. I agree with Bee but I would isolate them just in case, as you have done.
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 9, 2012
1:52 PM

Post #9075889

Thank you 1lisac. I am not going to plant them or put them around any other plants until I find out exactly what it is. I am not planning on planting until this weekend so I will keep researching and keep my eye on them. The odd thing is it is only on these two Bonnies Parks Whoppers. The other plants I purchased from the same place and area show no signs of it. They are also distributed by Bonnies. All, including the two in question are good healthy seedlings otherwise. If it was only the white spots I would be leaning towards it just being water spots but they also have brown in the middle of the spots.. Thanks again for your responses. I have added another image that shows some of the upper leaves.

Thumbnail by ilndmon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 9, 2012
9:55 PM

Post #9076535

Ahh.. Didn't notice the brown spot. Let's see what Bee has to say about that. Any chance you can just return them and not even bother with them?
TX_gardener
Brady, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
4:51 AM

Post #9076638

uh, what's TSWV?
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

April 10, 2012
8:10 AM

Post #9076901

TSWV is Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus.

I don't see any brown spot and I don't see any evidence of ANY spots that would suggest a foliage infection.

But considering it's only the Parks plants it suggests to me that since they are raised in huge commercial greenhouses and they COULD have bought them wholesale from Parks, no way of knowing, it could well be that they spray them with an anti-fungal, probably something like Daconil, which does leave a white residue.

Or the spraying could also have been done at the place where you bought the plants, but then why only the Park's plants and I just spoke to that.

Carolyn, who is suggesting anti-fungal residue.
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
8:10 AM

Post #9076903

[quote="1lisac"]Ahh.. Didn't notice the brown spot. Let's see what Bee has to say about that. Any chance you can just return them and not even bother with them?[/quote].

That's no fun. :) Returning them is an option and just may be what I end up doing. I also may destroy them so as not to spread any diseases. I will give it a few more days to see how it pans out. Nonetheless, I am still curious as to what this is?
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
8:17 AM

Post #9076911

Here is another image showing a closeup of the brown spots.

These spots are imbedded in the surface of the leaf and do not penetrate into the back side of the leaf. It is not powdery at all.

This message was edited Apr 10, 2012 11:22 AM

Thumbnail by ilndmon
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

April 10, 2012
8:51 AM

Post #9076962

I still don't see any brown spots and what I see even more clearly now are where the white has puddled in places and especially near the leaf edges, which does occur with many kinds of sprays that are used.

Perhaps the parks ones were grown by the nursery but in a given area and perhaps , well, I could perhaps myself too much here.LOL

Carolyn
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
9:20 AM

Post #9077005

[quote="Carolyn"]I still don't see any brown spots and what I see even more clearly now are where the white has puddled in places and especially near the leaf edges, which does occur with many kinds of sprays that are used.

Perhaps the parks ones were grown by the nursery but in a given area and perhaps , well, I could perhaps myself too much here.LOL

Carolyn[/quote]

Thank you for your responses Carolyn. I tend to think it is caused by a spray of some type myself. The plant itself is otherwise very healthy. No curl or deformation to the leaves and a thick stem. Do you see the dark splotches with a whitish edge around them. That is what I am describing as brown spots.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

April 10, 2012
10:20 AM

Post #9077070

Hmmm... I seem to remember African Violets were prone to getting brown spots with white rings, but I can't remember the name of the disease. It's been several years since I grew African Violets.

I suggest that when the plants get bigger - if there is no sign of the problem getting to the new leaves - that you remove the old spotted leaves and throw them in the trash.

Always wash your hands and tools after handling diseased plants.
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
11:11 AM

Post #9077134

Thank you Honeybee for that information. It has led me down a whole different path of research and I believe I am closing in on it.
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
11:48 AM

Post #9077176

Can you let us know? Now I see the discoloration and it does concern me more. thought the spots were just a parchment color.

Now that I look at the second picture you posted I think I see discoloration on the younger leaves too? The ones closer to the lense.

This message was edited Apr 10, 2012 12:51 PM
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
12:04 PM

Post #9077187

I will definitely post my findings here 1lisac. It may very well be chlorotic ringspot or tomato ringspot. That is what I am researching now.
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
12:30 PM

Post #9077220

I'd return them, just a thought.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

April 10, 2012
2:28 PM

Post #9077343

Interestingly tomato ringspot does not cause disease of tomatoes.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&cp=23&gs_id=1u&xhr=t&q=tomato+ringspot+disease&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&oq=tomato+ringspot+disease&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=b1508b3d0e075ddc&biw=757&bih=403

Pictures of tomato ringspot and just put your mouse pointer over a picture and it tells you what it is, and that b'c there's some TSWV mixed on as well.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&cp=23&gs_id=1u&xhr=t&q=tomato+ringspot+disease&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=757&bih=403&wrapid=tljp1334091405906038&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=n56ET9SZCo64twfAgpj2Bw

I haven't had the time to check out chlorotic ringspot to see if it's the same as the tomato one.

I have many friends who grow tomatoes in NC, my own brother is there as well as my best friend Craig LeHoullier who gardens in Raleigh, and also Lee and Shoe as well, who do tomato seed production for me.

And not once have I ever heard any of them speak to disease with ringspot anything, and I know now that the tomato one is a diseases of stone fruits as you can see from the first Google link.

Carolyn
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
2:52 PM

Post #9077383

Thank you Carolyn for the links. My limited experience only allows me to compare images in my search for this problem. The tomato ringspot I spoke of is actually opposite of the pattern I have on these plants. It has a dark boarder with white in the middle. I am not going to take a risk and I will most likely return them but I am still interested in finding out what it is for future reference. Thank you for your time and effort Carolyn and to all others who have so graciously responded to my OP.
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
7:56 PM

Post #9077764

I want to know what it is...who knows where those plants are from or where they have been. They are in NC now but they didn't start there, most likely.

Why is it called tomato ringspot if it's not found on tomatoes?
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2012
9:40 PM

Post #9077861

I want to know too. I am still researching it . When I find out more I will post it here.

HoneybeeNC

HoneybeeNC
Charlotte, NC
(Zone 7b)

April 11, 2012
8:07 AM

Post #9078278

I thought ALL plant material had to have a phytosanitary certificate. Which means (or should mean) the plant is free of all pests and diseases.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

April 11, 2012
11:07 AM

Post #9078574

http://www.dpvweb.net/dpv/showdpv.php?dpvno=290

Scroll down to the Notes section and you'll see that when it was first described in 1942 and given the name Tomato Ringspot that it turned out it was not a tomato pathogen, rather, a TMV one, so wrongly named as indicated in the notes section of the above.

So there is no Tomato Ringspot Virus that infects tomatoes.

Honeybee, phytos are not required for selling any tomato plants here in the US, nor for seeds.

They are required if sending plant material to another country, and same coming back to this country.

And Phyto certificates are very very costly and you have to have a relationshsip with a lab that does them.

Bulk tomato seeds sent to this country also have to be accompanied by a phyto certificate.

Carolyn
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 11, 2012
12:32 PM

Post #9078653

I've had to get phyto certificates to ship to certain states and I know others have to. That's why I can't ship to certain states. I know people that ship with out them but most growers that ship have to have inspections and certificates, to do it legally. It handles by the USDA but every state has different regulation.

But even then things happen.
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 11, 2012
1:43 PM

Post #9078733

I returned the plants today. Went to check to see if they had some Parks Whoppers that did not show the same problem. I could not believe it but over 50% of all types of their tomato's now show the same leaf spotting.I figured I would try a national hardware supply store down the street and I could not believe it but all of their Parks Whoppers had the same problem. All of their other types where unaffected so far. I must mention that both stores get their vegetable plants from the same national nursery. I am not blaming the nursery or anyone else for that matter as it may just be a watering issue but it does stir my curiosity even more. Just an FYI
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 11, 2012
6:23 PM

Post #9079030

If it's spreading it's not a water issue, especially if you find it at more then one nursery. Did you happen to ask them about it? Did they ask why you returned them? Just think how easily that could infect so many different plants in so many gardens. I wonder how often the USDA inspector comes around? They need to be aware of this.
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 11, 2012
7:20 PM

Post #9079085

To answer your question 1lisac. Yes, I informed the manager of my concerns and reason for returning the plants. I also informed him that in my opinion they may want to destroy the plants. I also plan on contacting my county extension office tomorrow to inform them. I sent the same pictures that I have posted here to the NC State University Cooperative Extension office earlier this week and was told:

"I am not 100% sure what the problem is with your plants but from the photo you shared it looks like it could be something as simple as fertilzer injury on those lower leaves. Worst case is it is the early stages of Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus (TSWV). This virus is not contagious - not transmitted plant to plant - but it is carried by thrips which feed on tomatoes. Unfortunately if it is TSWV there is nothing you can do to treat for this problem other than buy plants that are resistent to this virus".

I lived in an area once that had a high salt content in the water. It was not necessarily sodium chloride. There are other types of salts in water. I was not there very long and did not grow vegetables but I had many house plants. I noticed a lot of salt build up on the leaves and soil from watering with the local water. My point is, in my mind it could very well be a watering issue since these retailers use the same municipal water source. The fact is I really have no idea what it is.
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 12, 2012
10:38 AM

Post #9079737

Great and I put that it wasnt TSWV. Guess I should shut up. lol But given the circumstances and the fact that the virus isnt passed plant to plant I really doubt its TSWV. It will be intresting to see what it is. The way its spreading and that you have found it on different plants in one nursery and on some plants at another nursery is very intriguing, it seems to be "spreading" but, as you said it could be due to water/fertilizer burn. Im on a well so I wasnt thinking of them all using the same water source.

Thank you for doing all this "foot work". When you hear anything. Im all ears. lol
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 12, 2012
3:02 PM

Post #9080002

I am waiting for a response from another extension agent I was referred to. There are signs of it on one of my pepper seedlings now. Next year I will plant my own seeds. I have been away from gardening for quite a few years and I always grew from seeds in the past. I will post any new info here.
1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 12, 2012
4:37 PM

Post #9080098

Well I don't see how it can be TSWV if it since thatvdoesntbpass plant to plant. I'm sorry to hear that, I'm surprised that they weren't inspected better when they came in the store. It could spread everywhere, easily. I rarely if ever plant anything I don't grow myself. Sorry!
ilndmon
South Eastern, NC
(Zone 8a)

April 12, 2012
7:16 PM

Post #9080321

After much research I have found two possibilities that most closely resemble the problem with my plant leaves. Tomato (greenhouse) Phythotoxicity or
Greenhouse Tomato Magnesium Deficiency. I believe it is Tomato (greenhouse) Phythotoxicity. The 1st image is Phythotoxicity. The 2nd image is Magnesium Deficiency. The 3rd image is my plant.

Thumbnail by ilndmon   Thumbnail by ilndmon   Thumbnail by ilndmon
Click an image for an enlarged view.

1lisac
Liberty Hill, TX
(Zone 8a)

April 12, 2012
8:10 PM

Post #9080399

The reason I didn't bring up a nutrient deficency is because your plants leaves are such a deep green, these others aren't. Would that explain your pepper plant having it?

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