Our lady slippers are native and do not have any red, so I suppose they are common. I will try to dig up and share some as I had promised last year. The problem with our shade garden is that there are tree roots that make digging next to impossible.
I haven't been to visit you fellow shade lovers in a long while. How has everyone been? I was inspired by the variety and lesser known shade plants that weerobin has been posting pictures of, and went looking at lazyssfarm's online catalog. Before I knew it, I had a lot of things added to the shopping cart - now I just have to go back and narrow it down. Picked out some lesser known geraniums, anemones, and epimediums varieties as well as some other goodies. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a HUGE deer problem. My ultimate goal is to install a deer fence around my acreage, but with the cost, it is probably at least another two or three years out in the budget plan. In the meantime, I'm spraying with deer repellant every couple of weeks and I'm only putting in things that are labeled as deer resistant. The deer will pretty much eat whatever they want, but at least the plants may stand a better chance. When I got to the hellebores section in their online catalog, the description of hellebores foetidus indicated that the deer will absolutely not eat it, and it will deter them from eating any other plant in the vicinity. Has anyone had any experience with this plant? What is your opinion? It sounds too good to be true... Terri
We have a deer problem here as well. Because the back of our property butts up to a wooded wetland and it's the natural terrain, it would have been a nightmare to install "real" fencing. I opted for the EZ Fence which is a reinforced netting (much stronger than bird netting, deer netting, etc. The worst part of a not-so-bad job was to drive metal fence posts into the ground 2ft. No way were we going to use concrete out there. The netting has pockets that just slip over the posts so it was pretty easy. My fence is 6 ft and has worked so far at keeping them out. They will jump higher but I think they'd have to be either scared or pretty determined to jump higher. As I don't have hellebores in that part of the garden, can't say if they're deer-proof or not. My hostas did end up on their AYCE salad buffet though. They also love coneflowers and columbine and even rhodies if it's a bad winter here.
Sounds like the ideal plant for all who are dealing with deer, Terri.
Like Cindy, they feast here on hosta. We will be using Liquid Fence this year to try and keep them out but they are determined creatures. Here they don't eat columbine or coneflowers and they don't bother with my dahlias. They'll eat my friend's lilies and she's just a mile away, but they very seldom touch mine.
I love hostas, but they are definitely deer lettuce for now. I still try to keep some and focus the periodic spraying on them, but most are eaten by the end of the season. So far, they have actually come back the next spring so it hasn't been a total loss yet. The other plants that seem to be their favorites are spiderwort, oriental lillies, and toad lillies. I've got the bug for a plant shopping spree, and I think I'll go with a lot of epimediums this time. I have two different ones that the deer ignore. I don't see epimediums too often in the local nurseries so they really hadn't been on my radar as possibilities, but I saw quite a few online when I was looking yesterday.
aspen - I agree with you about being able to find Epimediums locally. I think every one of mine has come via mail order. Maybe they're low-growing enough that the deer don't notice them? Just wondering. The prices do eat up the budget fast though.
I have tons of deer and they don't bother my hellebores.
I have hellebore foetidus as well as several others and they all do fine.
I have a zillion epimediums which aren't bothered by deer, but bunnies find them delectable.
If it's not one, it's the other...
I had some great DG friends over this afternoon, and I was showing them the damage to the hostas. Not only are the deer eating the leaves, something else was going on too - looked like they were 1/4 of the size that they normally are to begin with. They knew right away what it was - voles!!! First time ever for that. Now I have not one, but two pesky critters to combat. I wonder when the rabbits will show up LOL.
Voles "discover" you. When I was at my old house my neighbor two doors down complained about how terrible his were. I didn't know what he was talking about, and didn't know what they looked like, A few years of avid lily growing and they found me. The first year winter I lost 5 or 6 lilies, which didn't concern me. I thought I planted them incorrectly. The next year (they had sent messages out to their pals that there was good eatin' in Donna's yard) - I lost 50 lilies.
That's quite a loss! Guess I'll not complain about deer nibbles so much.
Sorry if I'm off topic here but has anyone ever collected ripe seed from H. foetidus? Have one with flowers that have held on since last fall with big seed capsules but they're still green.
My h. foetidus spreads around on it's own. So far, I don't mind, but I can see that I'm going to have to start pulling seedlings up fairly soon to keep it in bounds. Yesterday, I was hacking through one area of jungle on yet another 'plant rescue' mission and was amazed to see about 4 clumps of h. foetidus growing happily under the mess - totally shaded and neglected. A pretty tough plant, obviously.
I spent all weekend doing the initial after-winter cleaning up of the hillside shade garden - a lot more vole damage than I thought, I went to the local Southern States and picked up some Bonide vole/mole stuff that another DGer recommended. Don't know it if will do the trick, but I hope so. Donna, losing 50+ bulbs must have been so disappointing. On a happier note, after the leaves are cleared away, I love "re-discovering" all the plants that survived and especially those that are actually thriving. What a difference a weekend of garden work makes!
The other plant deer nor rabbits seem to eat is asarum.
I have several nice patches of different types of asarum.
I really like them - a nice groundcover for shade.
This is a slowly spreading clump of asarum takaoi.
To the right of the asarum is a cute little hosta called Pandora's Box.
It lives in a lovely wire cage, which only came off long enough to take the picture!
I like the asarum too. I have one that looks similar to what you just posted, and the deer have left it alone. I need to go find the tag to find out which one it is - probably a fairly common one because I got it at a local nursery. I planted it about three years ago, but it has only spread a few leaves from what I originally planted. How long did it take your patch to fill in like that? It looks really nice, especially next to the hosta.
Thank you Aspenhill. That's sweet. A lot of the bulbs were common and easy to replace, with one exception - Longidragon, a lily that immediately went out of commerce. It's an Easter Lily trumpet cross that is only about 2 feet high, and has a spray of stunning flowers across the top. It was offered by B& D lilies in 2003. And only 2003. B&D had a calamitous time with voles too, not long thereafter, and lost thousand of lilies in a single year, and some they could not propagate again.
I had one left, but it was in the middle of tree roots and I couldn't get it out. And in the meantime, the rabbits would bite off the top, making it hard to locate. Then a year ago I realized that if I put a daffodil near it, the pests would leave it alone. I went back and looked, and there it was, sending up a stem, with daff WP Milner standing guard! I finally got it out of the ground, put it in my minifridge, and it's about to go into the ground.
I know it's absurd, but I can't begin to tell you how happy it made me to get this beautiful thing back. Being a lily buyer for 15 years, I now have three lilies that appear to be out of commerce - Silver Sunburst, Amethyst Temple, and Longidragon.
Thanks, Weerobin. I read that one such plant would keep deer from entering the garden so I asked our local nursery guy, a horticulturist, about it and he said it wasn't true. Now you say it so I've saved myself some grief. Nice asarum. I have the common Asarum Europaeum. Pandora's Box is sweet. I understand about the cages! Yesterday I hooked up some mesh over the tops of one phlox the deer will eat to the ground. I'll be adjusting it for height as it continues to grow.
aspenhill - if you have the one pictured below, it grows constantly in all directions and resents moving so do it in the fall when it becomes necessary.
Glad you managed to save one precious lily, Donna.
The Asarum pics are giving me a new appreciation for them. The foliage does hold up rather well during the growing season. I have the A. canadense which seems to pop up all over the garden which can be a pain though. Are the other varieties as prolific?
Mine is fairly well behaved but each clump expands slowly in all directions so I've been lifting some of it. Then the pieces removed look weary for months. I did put the pieces in a pot so feel free to contact me in August and if it looks good and you want it for the postage, you can have it.
Thanks so much for the offer, Pirl. I'll let you know if I can get some space cleared for it. Mine pops up everywhere that the insects can carry the seeds. DH is still contemplating an outdoor storage shed in the backyard which means moving some plants. My luck, he'll wait until the heat of the summer to decide (if at all).
I gave actually been lucky enough to have visited Slngs of Joy's garden and it just breathtaking.
I need a shed so bad. Originally I wanted to construct one along the fence to block my view of the neighbors drive but learned that the town code requires it to be ten feet away from the property line, which would not work.
Pirl - thanks for that link. Beautiful setting and shed. Sigh... I think ours will be much more utilitarian since it would house ladders, off-season motorized yard equipment, perhaps a lot of my outdoor gardening tools and cart. Has to be critter-proof, especially for raccoons and possums. But that doesn't mean it has to be austere. We weren't parking my old car in the garage since DH was building a desk, filing cabinet and shelves at the time. But with new vehicle purchase last year (which now gets parked in the garage) and DH's newest hobby - beer-making - space has gotten very tight in there. Thank goodness I have my little hobby GH for most of my pots and seed-starting stuff.
I think we have to be 8 ft off the property line here.
I have seen pictures that SongsofJoy has posted in various places, and they are absolutely beautiful. Have you seen the pictures of her waterfall/water feature? I love how the shed became an integral part of the garden. Cindy, I'm thinking that even needing more of a utilitiarian use can be made into an architectural feature. I have a shed and a pole barn - neither one is very attractive at this point, but maybe I can give them a face lift.
Beer brewing - how fun. "Red solo cup, let's have a party..." Anyone listen to Toby Keith?
Happy, on the vole damage, the plants just seem to get smaller and smaller, and then disappear altogether. If you poke a stick in the dirt around the plant, it just kind of sinks or caves in. The voles eat the roots from their tunnels underground. Much different than the deer damage who munch on the leaves and flowers from the top. The plants just look like they have been chewed on and/or eaten, leaving just a few inches of the plant remaining above ground. Slugs, don't have that problem yet, but I think the symptoms are holes in the leaves.
Up here vole damage is seen mostly in disappearing bulbs, or only tiny bulblets that are next to areas where big bulbs were. In other words, you may have planted a large bulb with small offsets and now you have only offsets, or perhaps just a few scales.
Slug damage manifests itself in ragged holes in the leaves. Hostas are a favorite. It doesn't kill the plant but renders it unsightly.
No "his" and "her" sheds here - just one. I have my little GH to putter in and it's much closer to a water source anyway. I'm thinking that the shed won't be very decorative as it'll have to have a double door setup to get stuff in and out with access to the shed on that main side. I'll probably paint it to match the house though.
DH has already made two batches of beer since Christmas and is now thinking of moving from kits to using actual grains. That'll require even more space in the garage. I think he's most influenced by Three Floyds and New Holland breweries.
I've run into those hollow spots underground but thought some of them might be caused by decaying tree roots. I used to have moles but I think the majority have moved on although I see one occasionally.
Here are a few pix I thought I'd share from my shady yard this last week or two.
1. Arisaema sikokianus.
2. Styrax confusus. It's a shrubby version of the more common styrax japonica.
The flowers are too cute!
3. Rodgersia aesculifolia. A nice bold leaf texture for the shady garden.
1. Spigelia marilandica. This one is in high shade - doesn't bloom as densely as those in more sun.
2. Leptodermis oblonga. Small lavender blooms.
Heaviest bloom now, but will keep lightly blooming all summer.
3. Thalictrum kiusianum. A tiny groundcover thalictrum. The leaves are about half-a-dime sized.
Beautiful pictures, as usual, Weerobin. Have you submitted any of these to plantfiles?
A friend of mine has the thalictrum, and I love it. If Happy is having trouble with it, I wonder if I should ask for some cuttings. Weerobin, do you know if it grows well from cuttings?
Since I can't grow any of those gorgeous sun-loving perennials,
I have to make do with those less glamorous shade-tolerant plants.
Some of them are pretty cool, but it's hit or miss.
You should feel fortunate that I spare you pictures of the misses!
As for the thalictrum, it's so tiny, I can't imagine getting much cutting material.
Mine grows fine, but it's so little that it can't compete with all the weeds.
so has to be pampered a little by weeding regularly to give it a competitive advantage.
As long as I keep it weeded, it spreads OK; several patches are a foot or two across.
But, Happy, you'll always have to keep that magnifying glass handy!
I also wanted to show some shrubs which thrive in the shade and are blooming right now.
Once I cleared out all the choking invasive honeysuckle shrubs, things looked a little barren in the woods.
So these shade-tolerant shrubs provide some structure.
And the blooms are pretty, too.
This time of year, the calycanthus family is doing it's thing.
I posted a picture of sinocalycanthus chinensis above.
Here are a couple of his brethren. Both are pretty big shrubs. A little on the coarse side.
1. x sinocalycanthus Hartlage Wine
2. x sinocalycanthus Venus.
The 3rd picture is a mock orange called philadephus purpurescens.
The purpurescens part refers to the dark purple calyx. It really sets off the pure white flowers well.
I like it best just before the flowers fully open.
How long has it taken for your Calycanthus 'Venus' to bloom? I've had one now for about 4 years and it's yet to show any blooms, but it was a small plant from Bluestone to begin with. Mine doesn't get very much sun.
I love some of the stuff that is popping up in my shady yard. I saw this plant, all alone, with no others like it, and it turned out to be a lamium, but not an invasive one, but possibly laminum galeobdolon. Apparently the species is very invasive, but this one is not. I only found one other, and tore it out, which I now regret, since I like it very much.
Weerobin, ditto on Doug's question on the Calycanthus 'Venus'. I also have one that I got as a small plant from Bluestone a few years ago. It is slowly growing, and does not look quite shrub size to me yet - blossoms are still probably a few years out? The description in the catalog also indicated that it had a really nice fragrance - have you noticed one way or the other? Thanks, terri
Love the Sinocalycanthus! Alas, it's hardy to zone 6. Do you see any indication of it being a little more cold-hardy than that? I have the species Calycanthus floridus and while it's blooms are pretty and fragrant, not quite as eye-catching as the S.
It took several years for the sinocalycanthus to start blooming.
And when they finally bloomed, it was just one or two blossoms.
But now they bloom pretty densely, despite being in fairly dense shade.
They're in fairly open woodland with pretty dense tree canopy above.
The Hartlage Wine plant pictured above already has canes 8+ ft tall.
The brightness of the bloom is misleading since the photo is backlit.
The lower down blooms are dark maroon and so don't stand out too brightly (pic #1).
My complaint about all the calycanthus flowers is they look fresh and nice just for a couple days,
then get some sort of black wilt (?fungus) around the edges which make them look like they've splashed with dirt.
Pic #2 shows the density of flowers, but also some of the black showing up on some blooms.
I suspect they wouldn't do that so much in a sunnier location.
These shrubs get pretty big and have very big leaves also, so they need some room.
Happy, my purpurescens mock orange is also in pretty dense shade.
Open woodland with dense high canopy of trees. Rarely if any direct sun.
It flowers pretty densely despite the shaded conditions (pic #3).
But, being a mock orange, it's a bit of a sprawling thing,
so doesn't have the greatest appearance when not in bloom.
Edited to add: No, aspen, I haven't noticed any fragrance, but I'm not much of a fragrance guy,
so I may just not have noticed.
Well I guess I still have hope! I noticed a few days ago that mine is finally starting to take off growth-wise. Maybe it will bloom before I'm too old to walk up the hill!! It is in what I'd call 70% shade as is most of my woodland garden. It gets dapples(?) of sunlight at various times throughout the day but never with any intensity.
Doug, I looked at my records and got the sinocalycanthus 'Venus' with a half price special at Bluestone for spring planting 2009. I wonder if we took advantage of the same special. My woodland conditions are the same as yours and weerobin's. It would be interesting to compare how soon ours finally bloom knowing that they started out at the same size from the same place... The race is on LOL.
The house I moved into has large areas of wild strawberries, creeping Charlie (which I remove whenever I can) and violets. I like the violets. But it also had hundreds of lily of the valley, which destroy everything else. I'm down to the last hundred, which I may actually try to dig up and sell. And ditch lilies, which I have almost gotten rid of, but monitor them coming from my neighbors' yards on both side. I actually reach under the fences to rip them out.
To replace those plants, I am germinating a lot of hardy geraniums. And a lot of parsley, which I used as a ground cover at my old house. Nature abhors a vacuum, and it's a battle of the toughest. Lily of the valley is the worst of the bunch.
The tough part is that, on the borders, along with the ditch lilies, as well as within my own yards, are maple seedlings that were allowed to get serious over the years and grow ten feet tall. Even if you cut them down, they resprout. I am hoping that repeated cuttings will do the trick, but knowing what I know now, I would never move into a house with mostly shady yard and a negligent owners.
On the other hand, the greenery and cool loook of a mostly shady garden is delightful. And once I figured out when the sunny areas peak through, even through the leafed out trees, I was able to locate some plants that like a bit of sun.
I just have to show some more pix of my spigelia.
It's really at it's peak this weekend.
I have 4-5 plants, most scattered in light shade.
All flower beautifully, but the one which flowers the best is this one.
It is at the base of a big oak, but gets pretty direct afternoon sun.
The bright flowers really stand out. One of my favorite plants.
Oh, Wee, it is always wonderful to see your glorious plants!
If you can imagine, my neighbors just cut down all the shrubs on their side of a fence so thay can "see me better". Now they can look in my windows and see me in the kitchen, and see me every time I go into the yard. Then this squabbling, nosy family interrupts me with pruners in my hands and start to whine about each other. I'll go into the garden and one or two of them will literally run toward me and start yelling "Donna".
I hate it.
So I just went on trees and shrubs begging for something I can put in a mostly shaded yard that will give me my privacy back. My yard seems nicely balanced between alkalinity and acidity.
#1 This is a deutzia Godsall Pink, but you'd be hard pressed to see any pink.
Maybe just a touch of pink on the outside of the petals.
It blooms fine despite fairly deep shade in a woodland setting.
Maybe the shade causes it to lose it's pink?
Like many other shrubs, it's listed as wanting full sun,
but has done fine in my wooded situation for 10+ yrs.
#2. Deutzia gracilis variegata. I think it's prettier in bud than in bloom.
#3. Indigofera amblyantha. Hard to get a good photo, but zillions of upstanding blooms.
#1. Buddleia lindleyana. Blooms throughout summer, but tends to sucker.
#2. Itea also suckers. Makes a nice hedge even in shady situation.
#3. Aesculus x carnea Ft McNair is a light pink horsechestnut which after 15yrs is just now becoming a tree. The blooms are very pretty, but it's getting to tall now to see them well. Needed my zoom lens to get the pix.
It grew up in the woods,but is now becoming part of the canopy I guess.
Donna, several of my shrubby plants get big and dense enough for a screen, even in shady situations.
The deutzia Godsall Pink is 8ft tall. My deutzia gracilis variegata is also 6ft tall. Both are dense.
I have a shrub called neviusia which is 5ft tall and dense. Flowers in April
(#1 shows how dense it is in winter; #2 are the flowers).
I have several viburnums in shade, but none of mine are particularly dense.
Sorbaria is another suckering shrub which is dense enough for a screen.
Again you'll find it listed as sunloving, but has been perfectly happy in shade here.
It's lining my shaded driveway, as you can see in #3. Blooms mid-summer (July).
OMG! Godsall pink! YES! Bless you! I admired it earlier! I was trying to figure out how to fit it into my garden! Forest Farm has a size 1, which is 2-3 feet. You are a genius!!! An ultimate 8 feet would ROCK!
You all have the best things growing. Flowering bushes that are beautiful and things plants I never heard of.
I went out to visit my shade garden after the last rain (it's raining again today) only to find so much tall growth it is hard to find my old favorites. And I don't know what happened to my lady's slippers... Hmmm. This garden has always been a spring performer, and I hope everything is still there. The epimedium and Japanese fern are still there. I'll be weeding and cutting forever. I guess this is the good ol' northeast weird weather.
Weerobin wrote:I just have to show some more pix of my spigelia.
Beautiful plants. Thank you.
I planted two "Indian Pink" this past weekend. I didnt want to put my 'eggs all in one basket' so I planted one in an area which gets probably 3 hours of sun each day and the other location gets less. We shall see.
Btw, WEEROBIN, can you give me more specifics re this plant as you clearly have superb specimens:
- When does it flower in your zone and for how long does it continue flowering?
- What are the dimensions of your fully grown 'spigelia'?
I am a bit concerned re his hardiness as I am a zone 5. I will mulch it lots come this fall.
Pirl, your melittis looks great. Mine is looking a little puny this year; not sure what's wrong with it.
Rouge, my spigelia is blooming now; started about 2 wks ago, still going strong.
Maybe for another 1-2 wks, then the show will be over.
My biggest specimen is about 2x2ft, not so big.
It's about 10yr old & still looks great, so it's long lived. I've never divided it.
The one with more sun blooms best. This one gets mid-afternoon blazing sun; shade rest of the day.
And speedie, I'm glad you've got that aegopodium under lock & key.
It brings back nightmares of gardening past...
Aegopodium in my shade garden is funny stuff. It grows under a tree or two with roots all over. It wants to stick to the ground like a magnet and is almost as bad as Houttuynia which is confined to one garden but is IMPOSSIBLE to remove.
I spent a good part of this afternoon pulling up weeds in the rain. The wet ground makes it easier to pull unwanted roots. I feel like I removed a gazillion Queen Anne's Lace plants (wild carrot) which adds new meaning to spreading your seed.
Houttuynia has been the most difficult for me to remove Cathy. I've battled it in two gardens for seven years now and last year dug all I could find and then we covered two fields with black plastic, which will remain through this summer and I'll check on our progress next May. It's one tough invasive plant. This is just one area where it even went into the lawn.
I was told by one garden club to take a small brush and paint weed killer on the open stem. I guess vegetation killer or RU. I'm just too chicken because there are lots of peonies in that garden.
The reason Houttuynia is so difficult is that it send lots of underground runners and can generate a plant from the smallest piece of root. Anything coming out of that garden gets washed off and planted isolated in a container. There is also lime balm, sage, and oregano in that garden, and I tore out the over-abundant lime balm ( or lemon balm, not sure) and exposed even more Houttuynia. I guess the mild winter had its share of drawbacks. At least one of the Dahlias made it through as did at least one Zantedeschia. This is the first night I'm leaving the Caladiums out overnight instead of putting them in the car. I am sooo tired of that!
In 2010 my helper, Neri, and I painted each leaf with RU while wearing surgical gloves. The pieces did look dead but underground they continued to grow. Each tiny piece does continue to grow, which makes it so difficult to eradicate.
I only dug up the dahlias I liked and lost them all in the basement over winter. So I was stunned to see all the dahlias I left had returned - what a bummer! So I bought two packages and someone sent me 9 so I'll have more than enough.
Happy - I did eliminate the three areas with aegopodium by spraying every other day with RU.
Pirl, you've got stamina! I ordered 55 bulbs from Bill, but only 11 were mammoth (Fannie Munson). Some I started indoors. I got other Caladiums, but none were as nice as nice as these. Even the number 1 size were big. If you've put yours in the ground, I guess I can try some inground soon. You are probably a tad warmer than we are. My favorite are Miss Muffetts, but I'm waiting to see how Gingerland grows. I've got a Brandywine still in the house, and the leaves are huge!
Stamina comes before stupidity, you know that! Stupidity for ever planting the dreaded Houttuynia but stamina to dig it up along with hundreds of daylilies and other plants that I potted up until I can plant them again IF the Houtt. is really gone and if there's no Houtt. in the pots. It's a very risky proposition.
Bill's bulbs can't be beat and it's really a pleasure to plant them. Here's his mammoth Grey Ghost, lined up and taking up 17" and, second, all crowded into one 11.5" self watering pot. It should make quite a show. Don't tell Bill how I didn't give them any breathing room but curiosity got the better of me.
This is a big thank you to Weerobin. He suggested Deutzia Codsall pink, first simply as a beautiful shrub, and secondly as a privacy screen (on another forum). I got three from Forest Farms for $10 each. They were supposed to be 2-3 feet tall but none are less than four feet and one is over five feet tall. They are in bud. I never would have thought of this plant, as I knew nothing about it. And it is perfect.
Absolutely! Ray at Forest Farm was very anxious about them traveling in the heat. One has been planted, and two are in shade. One suffered (AFTER arrival - not their fault) because of the 92 degree heat and I cut it back. But I am about to install number two. The rose was just a treat. I've always wanted it. And now I'm looking for more shade tolerant roses. And shade tolerant shrubs. A whole new world has been opened to me!
Deutzia Codsall Pink is now added to my list of must haves. And Donna, I'd be really interested in any info about shade tolerant roses that you come across. I've started adding lilies and clematis in the shade and would love to start adding some roses too. I'm having great luck with oriental and orienpet lilies, but it is too soon to tell about the clematis.
I just installed Charles deMille, which I have always wanted, but it's once bloomer. I am wary of roses recommended as shade tolerant by writers in sunny climes. I have found, from my own experience, that Marchesa Bocchella aka Jacque Cartier is quite shade tolerant. I grew it under a linden that got huge, and shades the rose quite a bit, and it blooms it's brains out anyway. I put in two here.
I tend to go with lists from northen nurseries. I have been checking out the list of shade tolerant roses at Pickering in Canada.
What a treat to have roses blooming in the shade. And nice to know about the Pickering reference for more accurate northern information. I had read that a lot of the more modern roses (David Austin?) like morning sun and afternoon shade. Alas, my orientation here is morning shade, afternoon sun.
It's my new mission, getting roses in the shade. I was emphasizing peonies, but they are unpredictable. I transplanted several, and they all bloomed but one, but you hold your breath waiting for it, and then it's over.
So more roses.
Oh, yes, it's not on their list, but Madame Hardy is shade tolerant too. Alas, another once bloomer! But it glows in the shade. I'm going to get it, too.
I never paid much attention until some of my roses got shaded out over the years. Some of them bloom better with 4-6 hours of sun rather than 10. I have several big mature trees in my new yard, and I did notice where the openings were so that I could place them. The blooms actually last longer when they are not so bombarded with sunlight.
The same is true of peonies, especially the early singles.
I got my first Austins during the month of August at my favorite garden center. They were desperate to get rid of them. So they took a $27.99 Glamis Castle and a $24.99 Heritage and blew them out for $9.99 each. Neither had any blackspot or mildew, unlike Evelyn, a rose I thought I wanted, that looked half dead with disease.
I think I'll have a look at a great garden center I pass while shopping. Their roses looked good but WOW were they expensive. I can get roses from Pickering for $15 ($14 last year) with $18 shipping for 3-4, so I don't buy a lot of roses from anyone else!
Donna, thank you for the link to the shady roses. I never even thought much about shady roses before. I have discovered this year, all of a sudden, my shrubs and small trees seem to be huge, and I have more shade areas. Poor planning on my part, but glad to have the places for more shade plants.
My woodland shade favorite for this weekend will be ME.
It was 108 degrees yesterday here!! Forecast to be the same today.
Even though I'm jealous of everyone else's beautiful sunny perennial borders,
this is when I appreciate having all my shade!
I am attending a presentation given by Peter Schneider, the writer of "Right Rose, Right Place" and the author of the combined rose list (every rose available, everywhere). It's on July 7. I am going to ask him about shade tolerant roses. Since he is in Ohio, his climactic conditions are between yours and mine. I'll pass on what he says. Indeed, I'll post it here, and perhaps on the rose forum.
Wee, I hear you! Our full sun house is under contract, and I go there every week to prune roses and pull weeds (our buyers are very nice people, and they love my garden). I went yesterday. And wow, it's punishing in this heat. Being former farmland, there are no trees, and while I have them, just driving around is gross. And I had never noticed that the intensity of the light makes photography difficult.
Whereas, when I came back, I had no problem, in 100 degree heat, in puttering around the back yard, which faces north. It's still a work in progress, but it's coming along fast, considering that I have only been her since December. What's really interesting to me is how many plants I grew in full sun that like shade. Trumpet lilies and orienpets, for one (who wouldda thunk it?) Certain ferns, heuchera, fragaria vesca reugen, polemonium, thalictrum, epimedium, oak leaf hydrangeas, parsley, feverfew and hearty geraniums were transplanted from full sun to dappled shade.
I have full sun on the south side, and that is where I put my sunny stuff. But let me tell you, I am not exactly hanging out there!
I've got to tell you, this shade thing is a real adventure, and a lot of fun. I scout out the places where there are gaps between the 100 year old trees and put plants that need a bit more sun in those spots.
Have to agree with loving the shade here. I can't imagine gardening in full sun with weather like this. I've been out hand-catching Japanese beetles several times a day and I can't wait to get back indoors into the A/C. I did have to move my Heuchera 'Citronelle' the other day. It's been exposed to more sun this year since the removal of two oaks last year and it just didn't seem very happy with leaves crisping up and not really putting on any growth. It is difficult to determine if it's the sun or the lack of rain that makes it unhappy so I decided to treat it like an Astilbe - fine in the shade but extra water requirements in the sun.
Today I brought home from work 3 more Coleus to pop into my back shady container garden area. I just HAD to have them, and since we were cleaning the greenhouse up anyhow, and were told to either trash or take home anything that didn't look BEAUTIFUL, I figured what the hay, these guys look like they could use a good new home. THAT'S ME!!! < =D They'll get put into their new homes over the weekend.
Meanwhile, been spending the last few days either outside in the beating sun (yesterday), and today in the greenhouse (where it topped 115 easy peezy). Gosh it's hot! Hope y'all are beating the heat and staying safe! =)
It's been a degree or two over 100 here the last couple of days, and is supposed to be 100 tomorrow and in the 90s the next seven days. Really unusual for this early in summer here in northern KY. I have not been feeling great, since I work outside all day. It seems like I just can't get enough water in me!
Good for you for rescuing those plants--I love to do that!
CindyMzone5 wrote:Have to agree with loving the shade here. I can't imagine gardening in full sun with weather like this. I've been out hand-catching Japanese beetles several times a day and I can't wait to get back indoors into the A/C. I did have to move my Heuchera 'Citronelle' the other day. It's been exposed to more sun this year since the removal of two oaks last year and it just didn't seem very happy with leaves crisping up and not really putting on any growth. It is difficult to determine if it's the sun or the lack of rain that makes it unhappy so I decided to treat it like an Astilbe - fine in the shade but extra water requirements in the sun.
Ohhhh... I posted some pics on a Hosta thread asking about 'burn'; most of myine that are looking REALLY bad despite only partial sun are the Citronelles. I think the extra-watering idea makes sense, but I also wonder if this year (early drought and heat) has something to do with it.
sissy - for 'Citronelle' you probably have a good point. Some of the other Heucheras (some are seedlings of 'Palace Purple') are also crisping up even though they can usually take more abuse. I do try to look at Heuchera parentage to avoid the fussier plants.
KyWoods, I hope you're faring well in this heat, drinking plenty of fluids etc. I understand the working outside stuff, it can be downright NO FUN!
I'm finding that, in my back "shady area", of all things the Agaepodium (sp?) is really wilting and unhappy! Personally, I don't really care all that much, it's in a pot and it will stay there, or in the trash (don't want it thugging all over the place), but I'm pretty surprised nonetheless. I thought that stuff was really durable. Hmm
Meanwhile, I've "rescued" a couple more Coleus for that back shady area, a Lime Red, and a 4-pack of "Wizard Mix". The Lime Red was getting a bit leggy, so I pruned her, saving the cuttings of course, and now have 3 of 'em! < =)
Slowly as the season progresses, I am learning what will work back there and what won't. Hostas for sure are working, at least the 2 Undulata Albomarginata that I've got, and the Coleus Defiance are thriving too... as are the Setcretia. Next season, more of those 3, in different varieties of course. And probably 1 Astilbe. ;)
I just rescued 2 Endless Summer hydrangeas at a garden center for $8 each. It was very successful in my full sun garden with lots of mulch and weekly watering.
I also, while tidying my old yard, found that a miscanthus giganteous had escaped and was growing into a bed. Viburnum Valley on Trees and Shrubs suggested it for privacy, even in some shade. So I dug it up. Since I was going to buy one this fall, move one hydrangea and buy two (and I was given two hydrangeas by Ralston Arboretum that are quite rare, not frost tolerant and will spend the winter in the garage) I now have a bumper crop of new plants.
And I just realized that I have clumps of lemon balm, some of the size of fairly mature hydrangeas, so guess what's coming out?
I though establishing a new yard would be expensive, but I have my old yard to choose from, inexpensive sources (Plant and Gnome and Pickering) and "finds". This, with my Codsall pinks and wild geraniums, is completely changing a yard that was full of hostas (I did keep some) lily of the valley, ditch lilies, lemon balm, non-fruiting strawberries and the like.
If I could just find a way to get rid of creeping charlie, I'd be in hog heaven.
I always had believed that shade gardening was dull. Now I understand just how little I knew. And this thread has really helped me. Thank you.
Donna - sounds like you hit the jackpot this year with the new garden.
speedie - I love "rescue work" at the garden centers! I got a lot of hosta, astilbe and bleeding hearts from little 6-packs sold in the spring for shade gardens. By June or July, I could pick them up for $1 a pack.
It's trying times in my neck of the woods.
I heard on the news last night our average high temp for the past week was 103.9.
Low temp last night was supposed to be 83 ... no break from the heat even at night.
I spent last weekend watering constantly, but still lost several choice plants.
I can't water as much during week, due to job constraints.
Now there's a restriction on outdoor watering, which may just be the last straw.
My yard looks pitiful. Even my detested shrub honeysuckles are wilted.
I'm not sure I have the courage to do a yard tour this weekend,
especially since I can't try to revive any of my poor guys with a drink.
BUT: maybe light at the end of the tunnel: possible rain Sunday!!
So sorry to hear about your water restrictions. That has to be quite frustrating with an extensive collection like yours. Hopefully you'll get some rain this weekend. It's supposed to cool off around Monday so hopefully you'll see some lower temps down there. I remember St. Louis being quite the heat challenge in July. I started out watering yesterday (don't even want to see my water bill) and then we got a freak unforecasted storm with high winds that took the roof off of apartment complex a few miles away. Today is another day to stay indoors with high humidity and temps over 100. Ugh. Not even going out to pick up downed tree limbs.
I'm all for trying to play by the rules, but do you have any soaker hoses? I use 25 foot ones (about $9.00 each) to water beds of plants. It's very inconspicuous, because no water sprays in the air, Making it very difficult to spot what you are doing.
So perhaps you could use them on your most stressed plants.
I sneek out with my waterhose 6 in the morning and keep the hose down when a car is comming. They probobly think look at the carzy old lady standing in the yard and just looking at us. That is a only thing ilegal I do in my life, I figure I pay my water bills, I ought to use it. I will just tell them if I get cought that I did't know that manual watering is ilegal. Etelka . I hate all this rules and regulations. This is my protest sign.
Especially for your plants! =) I agree with Donna, soaker hoses are wonderful. I've got a 25-foot one in my big bed out front (should be switching it to a 50-foot one when it's not 100+ degrees out), and it's nice to be able to just nip out the back door to turn on the faucet, then nip back inside, and no-one knows except me and my grateful babies. =)
Speedie, do bear in mind that the 50 foot ones can be a lot harder to handle. I have one, and coiling it around plants is a pain. Now, if you are laying it out in a fair straight line it's great. But if you surround plants, it can take some wrestling.
I love what you said about "nipping" out to water. I have nosy neighbors. I'm out and back in a flash.
I used to have them on timers - 10 minutes on, 15 minutes off, but the timers couldn't be attached firmly enough, and would waste water. I've still got to try that again!
Thank goodness, no more homeowners association rules. When someone has something ugly in their yard and I can see it, I just put in another big plant. Without asking for permission. Or explaining myself. Or giving a bunch of jerks on a panel detail about my somewhat unusual plants so they can copy them (one of them kept coming to my yard and yelling, "DONNA! What's that?" pointing to my hydrangea querquefolia Snowflake. I told her it was a shrub. She went out and bought a bunch of burning bushes and barberries. Both are invasive up here.
Hmmmmm, I was thinking that same thing, (about wrestling with the 50 foot soaker hose), which is why I haven't put it down yet. ;) The bed is along the front of the house, about 20' long or so (but not a boring rectangle! heehee), but the varying depths of it allows for a lot of plants, which means I'd have to be weaving the darned thing in and out of a lot of stuff... but first I'd have to UN-weave the 25 footer out from stuff, including the Verbena, which I am certain has grown all over the hose now and re-rooted it's branches... oh, what a pain that's gonna be. I am always learning something, and I think I have learned that NEXT Spring is when I'm gonna switch them out, AFTER I've had a chance to give the Verbena their haircuts. =)
LOL, I LOVE your answer to the "what is that?" question!!! Haahahahaaa!!! "It's a shrub".. read: "Now leave me alone!!" LOL!!!!!! I'm guessing though that it's a form of compliment, wanting to grow what you're growing 'cause they love how you make your place look so gorgeous. (trying to stay on the positive side here, work with me.) ;) It is nice, though, to be able to just put out what you want without having to deal with the bureaucratic pencil-pushers who don't know a DARNED thing except how to sharpen their pencils. (case in point: growing invasives on purpose). Brings the word DUH to mind. =) heeheeheee
Should say though that the chance for rain is iffy, coming (if at all) on the back side of the cooler front. IN is now asking for voluntary water conservation of 5 to 10%. The water deficit isn't as bad in my neck of the woods as it is east and south.
Finally a break in the weather! Only supposed to be 96 today.
It's funny to think of 96 being cool, but I'll take it.
We even got a little rain - of course nowhere near as much as we need, but any amount is welcome!
Unfortunately still a lot of summer to go - hopefully not as brutal as it started.
Some of my guys didn't make it; others could go either way; in no shape to tolerate much more stress.
Maybe we'll catch a break with more lenient weather!
Good morning all! =) Woke up to some wetness on the ground, so apparently it **did** rain at some point last night, but not when I thought it would. When I went to bed the sky was clear, ^^shrug^^. Oh well, I'll accept any precipitation at this point! :) How 'bout you all, did ya get any of the promised rain? I sure hope this ushers in some cooler air for all of us in these parts!
We also got a little more rain! Unfortunately, Nat Weather Svc measured 0.01 inch for St Louis - I think my yard got a little more, thankfully. But it was still warm (98), but that's the first time below 100 degrees in 10 days!
Should be cooler this week. Looking forward to it. My guys deserve a break!
Ooooh 74 sounds Heavenly!! I was downright THRILLED to head out the door to go to work yesterday morning to find it raining down on me. YIPPEEE!!! I guess it was a little late getting here (it was forecasted for early Sunday evening, it must have slept in, heehee), but that's ok, I'll take it! I think we had a bit more last night or in the wee hours of the morning, 'cause when I kicked DH out for work at 4:30 this morning it was all wet everywhere. Gotta love it! =) It brings a song to mind... < =D
I know what you mean about the a/c finally cycling off. I'm gonna hate to see my electric and water bills. I'm out for a short bike ride this morning to celebrate. I'm not a big heat-lover so my poor bike has sat neglected for the past couple of weeks. Then it's out to do some gardening today - 83-ish and I'm happy.
Either today, or Thursday (my next day off), I'm going to plant out and pot up the new "rescues" I brought home the other day. Some annual Phlox need replacing and .. **ahem** I NEEDED some more Coleuses. < =D (Yes, I NEEDED them, I swear I did!)
And then, of course, the Perilla was sort of whining "Heeyyyy, if you're taking them, why can't you take me tooooo?" I'm spineless, I had to give in.
Speedie - It's OK to "need" a plant. We can all sympathize! I used to grow Perilla because of it's purple foliage - the ruffly kind. But I would get tons of seedlings to pull out from unwanted places. It's mostly died out here which of course makes room for the dark coleus.
That purple ruffled perilla grows wild here, and it has taken me years to get it under control--it popped up by the thousands, everywhere! It's so pretty, though, so now I just have them where I want them, and remove the seedheads when they form.
I got a couple of things planted too. NOT the hydrangeas I bought - they are staying in pots. But Viburnum Valley told me that a solution I used at home would work in shade, and for privacy. Miscanthus giganteous. Here it is at my house (under contract!) on a foggy day - my favorite shot. And, by the way, this is what the plant looked like after 3 years. I was going to order it from Forest Farm. Pic. 1
So what do you know, after all these years, I'm tidying the yard for the new owner and see one bigger than my original purchase. So I pull it out of a bed where it really should not be, put it in a pot with some compost, watered it, and it started growing. Pic. 2
So I installed it. See the charming chain link fence behind it? Sorry the snarling, barking dog isn't there to say hi! In about a year the barking, snarling dog, the ugly chain link, and the unpleasant neighbors will disappear! Like Magic! At NO COST!
I particularly like what the previous owner did with the walkway from the front to the back of the house on the east side. He laid brick and then ground up mulch in a chipper to create it.
Back to front (the tree is an enormous crabapple. It must be 40 feet tall.)
And front to back.
This was in May. I have since found little patches of sun that are consistent and put some more tolerant plants there from my previous house. It's like having your own little path in the woods. And no one else can access it. Andit is always cool.
Donna - niiiice! The photos of your new side yard - why do visions of Charleston gardens come to my mind?
Snarling dogs? I have those too. Thank goodness the owners treat them more like house pets (erroneously) that only get out for a few minutes a couple of times a day.
We have had much less precipitation for the year, but we don't have restrictions yet. Since last year we have been using a 90-gallon "thing" as a cistern of sorts, gathering the water from the gutters and leaders for storage. My prince added a tap/valve at the bottom and it sits on a couple of cinder blocks with a hose attached. We fill 5 gallon pails about 1/4 full and drag them around for watering. We often water more than once a day in this heat and have saved on our water bill. We don't water the grass, though. We put down marble chips in some of the areas.
It's difficult this year trying to find the balance between using the sprinkler (when large areas of garden need water) and using the rain barrels (when specific plants need extra water like tomatoes), especially when we don't know when it will rain again.
Ky - I had to go to NOLA on business years ago and my request for after-hours activities was to tour the garden district - beautiful!
Donna - any water restrictions where you live? Saw that there's quite a few in IL.
New Orleans has always been one of my favorite places to visit. The Garden District, the trolley, the restaurants and those drop dead balconies of cast iron and the too beautiful courtyards - delightful.
No, there are none. In my last house they were quite strict, and they are strict in communities around us. I asked a neighbor this morning why there were no water restrictions. She said they don't need them, because people don't water. You should see it - my neighbor and I are just about the only ones who water our trees, and of course our veggies. When I go running in the morning there might be two people watering. I've never seen anything like it.
I'm the only one that waters on my block but then most of the neighbors don't do any kind of gardening. I think one guy puts out half a dozen petunias around his yard light but that's about it. Heck, most of my neighbors aren't outdoors most of the time either.
People here have lots of daylilies, hostas and Annabelle hydrangeas. I think that they believe watering is unnecessary for those plants. I've never seen so many burned hostas in my life.
Now that you mention it, other than mowing the grass, I only have one neighbor who is outdoors gardening. He's all about it - you should see the gorgeous displays of beautiful veggies out front. He carefully fertilizes and mows his lawn, waters his trees, and edges everything. As you can imagine, we have bonded. There are only two houses that face outward on my street, and his house and garage are at the other extreme end. It gives us both tons of privacy, and since so much of his yard is by my driveway, he granted me the use of space to grow roses, grasses, and lilies.
I periodically thank him with gourmet cookies, and raspberries and loganberries from my yard. His eyes light up when he sees me coming with a covered bowl in hand. He's the best neighbor I've ever had.