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Tomatoes: Black Plum Paste or ANY black paste tomato

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araness
Auburn, AL
(Zone 8a)

May 13, 2012
7:09 PM

Post #9122629

Has anyone grown these? I've started canning, and while it's time consuming as a bit of a pain I love the end results. I've made salsa and sauce both this season and while they tasted fantastic the blacks I love tend to be a bit seedy.

Does anyone know of another black paste?

Saint
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

May 14, 2012
5:11 AM

Post #9122923

I've grown Black Plum and didn't like it at all for taste although it's very prolific..

I would far prefer to use Brad's Black Heart if I were going to use it to make sauce or can, since that variety is derived from Black Krim and being a heart doesn't have that many seeds.

Carolyn
araness
Auburn, AL
(Zone 8a)

May 14, 2012
10:10 AM

Post #9123377

thanks Carolyn, We have a black heart (maybe oxheart) this year. I didn't plant one so not sure if Baker's Creek made a boo boo or it's just strange throwback but that is meatier. How prolific do you think it would be in our heat?
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

May 14, 2012
2:49 PM

Post #9123761

What Baker Creek lists as Black Oxheart is Brad's Black Heart so there you go.

Brad found one plant in a field of many Black Krims that had heart shaped fruits and it was stable. Black Oxheart is the old name and that was changed almost ASAP to Brad's Black Heart.

All I can say is that I know many in TX, MO, LA, AL who grow so called black varieties and they seem to do well for most of them.

There's only one way to find out and that's to grow it yourself ( smile)

Carolyn

RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 21, 2012
9:10 AM

Post #9363806

Black Plum Paste is superior in my opinion to most paste and black cherry tomatoes.
The reason so many people report a bad flavor is probably because they are
not letting the tomato sit on the vine long enough. If you pluck it when it turns 'red',
it will be odd in flavor. Once it turns almost dark brown to black is when you pick it.
It is the most heavenly tomato I have ever tasted. Give it a try and ignore the people
who are saying it's a bad flavor tomato.
I make 5 star sauces from these tomatoes every year. People always ask me what
the smokey/sweet flavor is. I have to tell them it's in the tomatoes!

This message was edited Dec 21, 2012 4:04 PM
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 21, 2012
9:12 AM

Post #9363807

It also produced 200-300 tomatoes in a single season. That is no exaggeration! I live in a zone 4 at that!
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

December 22, 2012
5:13 AM

Post #9364482

Actually River, you're the only one I know who has grown Black Plum Paste. LOL I have no idea how different it is from Black Plum itself to deserve a different name and yes, I'm the one who said I didn't like the taste of Black Plum.

It's not a matter of ignoring folks , as you said above, who don't like what you like, and that's b'c there are all sorts of variables that are associated with taste, including human genes which makes for tastge being personal and perceptual..

I've grown over 3,000 tomato varieties and many of them paste varieties. and since above you said that Black Paste Plum was better than other paste varieties you've grown, how about sharing with us what other paste varieties you've grown so we know what the competition has been,

Roughly where are you in CO? I know the area quite well since I spent quite a few years teaching med students in Denver and did travel around the state from time to time before deciding to move back East, which I did in 1982,

Yeah, I'm that old. LOL

Carolyn
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
10:21 AM

Post #9364701

Carolyn,

Oh, I am in total agreement. I am sorry if I came off a little snooty.
The cause of my attitude was honestly because I recently looked up
Black Plum Paste's plant profile, and there are TONS of negative comments.
I was in disbelief! I've also read that some people just hate dark tomatoes all around and will
only eat red. I understand just fine that we're all biologically different, and where
one thing may taste sweet to one person, to another it could be bitter/sour.

But honestly, I sort of just feel like in this instance, people don't know a good thing sometimes! haha!
It seems like there are so many people out there who think anything they try that hasn't been
seen in a grocery store must be 'gross'. I think a lot of people are just use to store bought
tomatoes and so they aren't interested in training their taste buds a little to enjoying
the delights of something different.

Any way, I live outside of Montrose, CO, but a little higher in elevation (7 thousand feet or so),
just at the foot hills of the amazing San Juan Mountain range. Very close to Telluride.
Just moved here from the city (midwest) to live closer to the wild/nature. It's been amazing.
I do a lot of hiking and outdoor sports.

I don't think I'm any where near as experienced as you, I certainly havn't grown thousands!
Only dozens. I've tried various darker cherry varieties here and there, but not a
ton. Surprisingly even at my elevation veggies grow rather well so long as they're
protected from the intensity of the alpine sun which can just burn everything alive.
Everything has to be shaded with netting and filtered light, but it creates perfect
conditions. I grew only 7 types of black tomatoes this past summer. Most are in
my trade list.

I can't honestly say I know if there is a difference between black plum or black plum paste.
But I'll try to research it and post back.
I bought mine directly here: http://sustainableseedco.com/product.php?productid=16574&page=1

I'm glad to have been acquainted with you Carolyn! I'm new to the website and have fallen
in love with it! Cheers!



Thumbnail by RiverNymph
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RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
10:24 AM

Post #9364704

Oh, and seriously, I'm not kidding you about it producing 200-300 tomatoes in a single season! It was insane! I had two plants going on,
and had to give them away constantly.
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
10:39 AM

Post #9364721

Carolyn,
I looked at your profile to see if you had a trade list?
Do you trade at all? I may not have as extensive of an
inventory as you, but I would adore a small trade and any
recommendations from you on wonderful rare variates.
Check out of my list and let me know if you'd be interested.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

December 22, 2012
1:36 PM

Post #9364847

OK, I'm getting the picture here. What's shown as Black Plum Paste is nothing other than Black Plum to which someone has added the word paste. And BlackPlum is a Russian variety, yes, but Black Plum Paste is not.

It's just like Lillian's Red kansas paste which is NOT a paste but there are some folks who add the word paste to a variety name just b/c the shape looks to them like a paste. Arkansas Traveler wasbred and released by the U of Arkansas as Traveler and someone just plopped the Arkansas bit onto it and it's not an heirloom as so many think. Get thepicture?

Almost all of my tomato friends stopped using paste varieties for sauce, etc., quite awhile ago b'c in general paste varieties do not have good tastes, with some exceptions, at least for me, and I've posted them here at DG many times. Better to make a great tasting sauce with other varieties that do have great taste as I and many others see it.

Montrose? Oh yes, when the wind blew from the north the smell of the Montfort feedlots reached my home on the north side of Denver, actually on Locust, one block down from the 17th ave parkway and one block East of Monaco, the way to the airport. LOL

I have no trade list b'c don't trade seeds unless someone offers me an heirloom variety that is not known outside the family and then I offer that person a coupleof varieties as thanks.

I'm not a fan of seed trading, far from it. For many years I did a wrong varieties thread at Garden Web and the number of wrong varieties traded was always much greater than those from MOST commercial sources. In addition I feel very strongly about buying at least half, hopefully more, seeds from the small family run businesses who do so much fo rpreservation of varieties by offering them for sale. And I've listed some of those companies here also. I make one large seed offer elsewhere each year, for a SASE and that's it.

And yes, of course I've been to Telluride and Boulder and Durango and COlorado Springs and Aspen and where the Coors family lives b'c all of them graduated form the same University here in the East that I did and they always put on a great spread for the group, and no, I'm not a beer drinker either. LOL

There is much wrong information at many seed sites and it's too darn bad. If you want the straight info for many of them please go to Tania's superb website or ask here of you wish, but check there first of specific traits and seed sources for varieties, when known.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Main_Page

If you know the name of a variety use the alphabetical way of searching but you'll also see that if you go to special links there are many other ways of finding out about varieties based on color, plan thabit, etc.

Carolyn
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
4:35 PM

Post #9364960

Carolyn,
You sound kind of upset. Am I detecting that wrong because it's text?
I answered very politely and warmly/friendly to your questions, in hopes
to get to know you, but seem to have gotten nothing but bitter responses.
I don't live within the city limits of Montrose, I actually live outside of it
where it's absolutely beautiful with no "feed lot" stenches or smells.
I posted a photo that's only 20 minutes from my home in attempts
to extend a hand of friendship.

So far my experience with seed trading has been a positive one.
It's also nice to get to know people, share gardening tips, and learn
from other people. I'm quite young, and on a budget, and so seed
trading allows me to try new things without spending a fortune.
I just thoroughly enjoy growing things, and that's all that matters to me.
I prefer to look at the positive and negative sides of things rather
than being completely one sided on an issue, normally. Sure
there's risk in trading seeds, but I have really enjoyed getting to
know the people I have traded with. It seems most people try
to be as honest as possible. I'm sure there's a few horror stories
out there though.

Again, you seem very upset. Hopefully we can be friends in the future.

Angie

This message was edited Dec 22, 2012 5:37 PM

This message was edited Dec 22, 2012 5:43 PM
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
4:40 PM

Post #9364966

And, thank you for the website recommendation. I've been using it for some time now
and it is very lovely indeed. Have a wonderful Christmas Carolyn!
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
5:01 PM

Post #9364982

I wasn't really looking to compete with you either.
I don't really appreciate being spoken to like I'm an idiot because I believe it makes an excellent sauce and am
thoroughly impressed with the tomato. I just wanted to urge people to try it despite some of the reviews, that was all.
It's just not a competition. I would think Dave's Garden should be a place for people to get to know each
other. I certainly would never say or imply : "My friends and I are right and you're wrong", and then topping it off
with making fun of where I live and calling it smelly? It's just really aggressive and uncalled for.
To be perfectly honest, stating your credentials (teaching med students
and so on), shouldn't make you feel as though it justifies treating some one like crap when all that person
has done is answer your questions with warmth and kindness. I'm also college educated but I don't
use it as an excuse to make people feel stupid or inadequate.





This message was edited Dec 22, 2012 6:03 PM

This message was edited Dec 22, 2012 6:11 PM

This message was edited Dec 22, 2012 6:12 PM
araness
Auburn, AL
(Zone 8a)

December 22, 2012
5:56 PM

Post #9365048

River I've grown it and I didn't like it...and I'm kinda a black tomato floozy. Tomatoes taste differently in different climates, soils, sunlight etc so I hate to recommend a tomato because sure as I do the person will grow it out and it be a spitter.

Carolyn didn't sound upset to me, *G* she's a very cut and dried kinda poster, her knowledge base is beyond huge and she tries very hard to make sure that the information is accurate some take that as being upset, angry etc. lol heck to me it sounded like a jovial post.
araness
Auburn, AL
(Zone 8a)

December 22, 2012
6:05 PM

Post #9365060

Carolyn I drooled over Brad's list this year but was very good and only ordered one, Solar Flare, have you tried it? I would have love to try Amos Coli but paste hate either our humidity and/or the EB and I've never had a one that did well.
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
6:05 PM

Post #9365061

Araness,
That's just fine.
But you might want to read her message a second time.
Where I live was jeered/mocked, I was hollered at for
being into seed trading, etc. I understand her point of view,
but I don't believe in bitter and degrading corresponding.

Good luck on finding the perfect cherry tomato! I am sure you will find one.
I had every right to state an opinion without being torn down and teased.
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
6:08 PM

Post #9365064

I quote:
"Montrose? Oh yes, when the wind blew from the north the smell of the Montfort feedlots reached my home on the north side of Denver, actually on Locust, one block down from the 17th ave parkway and one block East of Monaco, the way to the airport. LOL"

Why on earth is the hostility being shown? Read my message to her prior to that. I was completely kind
and even ASKED for her recommendations on some nice heirlooms - nothing. Just was spoken to terribly.
You say she cares about the validity of information - I didn't give any false facts or false information. Only an opinion on flavor,
and tried to get to know her. Big mistake.
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
6:10 PM

Post #9365067

There is nothing worse in the world than people who have their head up their asses because they think a degree makes
them better than every one else. It isn't an excuse to run around treating people poorly and with total disrespect.
I was really enjoying learning new things on this website - until this.

This message was edited Dec 22, 2012 7:12 PM
RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
6:14 PM

Post #9365069

Hey on a brighter note - Happy Holidays. Keep sharing the love Carolyn. You're a winner at that one.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

December 22, 2012
7:07 PM

Post #9365109

River, I wasn't one bit upset and I'm sorry you thought otherwise. I was just relating what the situation was re the Montfort feed lot smells when I lived in Denver. And that b'c is was well know to all of us who lived on that side of Denver and is hard to forget.

And I certainly was not hostile at all and again, I'm sorry you read me that way.

Maybe if you knew a bit more about me, many others here do already, you'd know where I was coming from. I'm the farmer's daughter and was raised on what we call a truck farm here in the East. Acres and acres of tomatoes and anything else you can imagine. My father had a bad back so I was the one who got up at 4:30 AM in season and my father drove to the Farmer's Market which opened at 5 AM and I was the one who had to get up on the truck and onload it when the wholesalers came by. Summers of course I worked on our farm and started doing so when I was about 5 yo when I first started sitting on the plant setter.

My maternal parents owned the largest nursery in the Albany, Troy Schenectady area and that's how I got to know about annuals and perennials and so much more and worked there sometimes in the summer.

Yes, I have a degree, a BS from Cornell and a Ph.D from the University of Rocheter Medical School and yes I taught med students in Rochester and Denver human Infectious disease and the immune response which was my major but that doesn't change who I am, and doesn't mean I'm different from anyone else when it comes to what I'm all about as a person who is devoted to nature all things that grow and live within nature.

I did move back East b'c I'm the only daughter and my mom was in one hospital and my dad in another and the first year I went back home I didn't work and was trying to keep the family together. My brother lived in the area where I do now and has two handicapped kids. The last place I taught was a private college in Albany, NY, but I had two bad hips and had to resign. I moved up here knowing that my brother said they would take care of me via various surgeries, but then they moved to NC in 2005.

I'll link you to a thread from Tomatoville which will show you where I live now with my one cat and the occasion was my long time friend Craig LeHoullier who named Cherokee Purple, and together for several years we published an heirloom newsletter called Off The Vine, visiting me with his wife Sue and delivering my tomato plants which he raises for me in NC.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=18335

Before I could get the hips replaced i developed diabetes and then fell in Dec of 2004 and severed all four of the quads in my right leg but one didn't return to function so ['ve had to use a walker since then. So no more growing several hundreds of tomato plants and varieties each season, just a few in the back yard and all the flower beds were designed by me and someone else does all the gardening for me. Another person does my grocery shopping for me every two weeks.

I'm not allowed out when the weather is bad so my car is in the garage for winter. Which means I'm totally house bound so I read a lot, almost anything and also subscribe to several kinds of periodicals that interest me. I read/post at several message sites and now am a Moderator at only Tomatoville since I gave up the others. I do watch some TV, especially tennis and PBS and almost anything having to do with animals, and tonight I watched three hours of Animal planet called Too Cute which is all about puppies and kittens.And that b'c I didn't want to deal with this credit card fraud I have to deal with.

So hopefully some of the above will convince you that I'm not hostile to you or others, I try to help others, I'm 73 now and want to impart what I know in a way that will help others if I can b/c who knows when I'll go to that great tomato field up in the sky since I went back to smoking and eat more junk food than I should and neither is good for we diabetics. ( Smile)

So that's me.

Carolyn

RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 22, 2012
7:29 PM

Post #9365124

Something about your sentence structure sounded as if you were stating you could smell the feed lots from Montrose (six hours away) from Denver.
Sorry, but it was hard to take that any other way that how it sounds? I hope you understand that's a little.. well odd when I asked you for recommendations, etc. and was only nice.

Your story was intriguing. Extremely. And thank you for sharing it. But could you perhaps re-word what you were trying to say about where I currently live? I am a college student currently going for a B.A. in environmental studies, btw. I told you in my original reply that I was not as experienced and had only wanted to see if you'd be willing to trade some seeds and/OR just share some recommendations. Everything sounded bitter in reply. I hope you can see why?





This message was edited Dec 22, 2012 8:30 PM
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

December 22, 2012
8:13 PM

Post #9365146

Again, I was not criticizing where you live I was saying that that's the way it was when I lived in Denver from the mid-70's to the early 80's/

I don't consider myself superior b/c I have a few degrees and I don't consider you as an idiot.

I shared with you my feelings about trading seeds and it was my opinion and others know I've done it here before and it was just a general statement and you shouldn't get upset with the opinions of others, as I see it.Anyone is free to disagree with opinions stated by others but in a friendly helpful manner and with justification for why those opinions differ and not in a challenging way as you just did above.

And no, I don't have anything up my A$$ as you wrote above.

I did not jeer and mock you as you also wrote above.

And I don't deal with crap as I think you also wrote above.

You initially said that you didn't see a trade section for me and I shared with you why and I don't remember you asking me for recommendations for any varieties, but I didn't go back to check on that.

We've gotten off on a very bad start here Angie but I do think you've misread and internalized a lot that I wrote and made it very personal to you when that's not the way it was intended at all .

Carolyn, who to her knowledge has not been bitter or hostile to anyone here and there are many here who know me very well and have known me for quite a few years now since I think it was in about the late 1990's or early 2000's that I came here from AOL since someone asked me to.Enough already from my point of view and if my answers don't help, then nothing else I say on these issues will. And so to bed since it's late here now, at least for me it is. ( smile)

RiverNymph
the Mountains, CO
(Zone 4a)

December 23, 2012
9:14 AM

Post #9365372

Well, I'm just going to drop it.
I don't feel as though I was rude to you either considering seed trading.
I merely explained it's a wonderful medium for people who are on a budget
and that every one I personally have come across who 'trades' have been very
honest and sincere people, not lying or confusing heirlooms, but trying their
best to share with people. Mix ups are bound to happen and so are horror
stories. It's a great way to learn from people. I'm very grateful for seed trading.
I wasn't upset with you for thinking it's a terrible thing. I appreciate the opinon
of others - always have and always will. I just felt your initial
reply to a very sincere message to you was very choppy and not very kind.
I was never out to give mis-information on heirlooms or anything like that...
just an opinion on a terrific tomato. We can dance around the subject all we
want and I'm sure you and I will just keep pushing our points home.

So, let's leave it be. Hope to bump into you on another forum some time
and start off fresh! I look forward to learning from you if possibly in the future!

And I sincerely mean, hope your Christmas is wonderful. We're getting snow
it looks like on Christmas Eve. Yay for a white Christmas!



This message was edited Dec 23, 2012 10:30 AM
araness
Auburn, AL
(Zone 8a)

December 24, 2012
5:30 AM

Post #9365891

Carolyn did you want any solar flare? I can pop them in the mail Wed if so.

melody

melody
Benton, KY
(Zone 7a)


December 26, 2012
8:30 AM

Post #9367428

Typed words sometimes are misinterpreted when you aren't hearing them spoken. I've read the entire thread and didn't feel that there was any rude intentions. That said, it's time to drop the topic and move on to other subjects.

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