1 - Dark Aomurasakizyouhantenshibori, ipomoea purpurea.
2 - A cross of today ... imagine the result! ... We can dream!
3 - Me, I see them different!
4 - Definitely ... a new color for purpurea ( with dark trilobed foliage ) !
5 - Sunflower ... broken color !
could you donate some pollen from a more fertile flower to those?
Also, if my notes are correct, all the seeds that I received from Gardener_2005 in January 2007 were youjiro crosses. Could you include any of her youjiro crosses in your crosses that she may have sent you? Did you save seeds from any of her youjiros that you might have grown out? Hopefully, she will be making more of her seeds available some time this coming fall or winter.
This one came from her "Picotee Mix" when I grew it out in 2007. Although a seedling from this one in a subsequent year did not come true for me, at least one of the folks who requested seeds from this one did get the same flower.
Another seedling I grew from another youjiro mix that she called "magentas/pinks blizzards & solids/picotee white edge" is the large, deep rose MG with a white picotee in the foreground of this picture I took from my 2007 garden (She wrote that this mix came from "I. youjiro x Ukigumo with I. youjiro x Mt. Fuji") -
(The dusky large purple MG also with a white picotee climbing up the yew hedge in the middle background is Emma's Velvet Plum.
(I owe so much of the magic of my 2007 garden to both Gardener_2005 and EmmaGrace, as well as other generous gardeners that also sent seeds to me.)
The two MG flowers to the right are from another youjiro mix of hers that Gardener_2005 called "Large Blue, Purple Star Pattern, Blue Star Pattern" - love those delicate spidery rays on this one & the sharp contrast between pale & dark blue -
Evidently, Emma did send me some seeds in 2005 that she called I. youjiro "Baby Blue..." So, Dany, if you also got these from Emma, you would have more youjiros to cross with your MGs, along with Gardener_2005's. Following are some of the results from growing out Emma's youjiros two generations after receiving her seeds -
Karen, thank you for sharing !
When we make crosses with Youjiro, even when the F2 ... F3 has longer the characteristic leaf Youjiro they can still be sterile!
Sometimes the cultivar we used to cross has in their ancestors some blood (genes) of Youjiro that's why it's hard to get rid of this sterility.
241 pictures today ... bad day! lol!
Here Aigasuri from Azuremore ... looks like Fuji no Ao , a lot of blooms ... and there an UGLY flower ... oh what an ugly ... lol !
Thanks Dany, your information about sterility among youjiros is very useful. Have you ever noticed any differences between nils and youjiros with respect to vigor of the vine or profuseness of the flowering or any other differences?
Love the Q1221 from Kyushu - a lovely smoky lavender-gray indeed
Dany, I don't know and my computer does not do Asian characters.
However, in my ignorance, I can guess "how to get the 'Plasma Ray Flow' effect". On those last 3 links you just posted from Yoneda's examples of ray flow, toward the top of the page, the interspecific hybrid was spelled out:
(I. nil (Africa) x I. purpurea (flaked)) x I. nil
Sooooo - since the youjiros we have already contain the flaked purpurea, we could try crossing our youjiros with nils with different kinds of blizzard, flake, fleck, etc. patterns and see what comes up in F3 and keep crossing those results with each other and hope that eventually a ray flow pattern appears.
But, Dany, if you have the flower exhibiting the plasma ray flow effect as shown in your first link, then you already have the pattern among your morning glories.
So, with regard to your question here: "Where is the key ?... Which cultivar ? ... Chance... only ?"
Are you asking me to explain where the ray flow pattern comes from? My guess is that the ray flow pattern is in the genes of the flaked purpurea that many of us have been growing out in this forum and that Dr. Yoneda used to cross with the African nil that eventually yielded the youjiro which we also have been growing out in our gardens.
I think chance is what we see on the surface, but that scientific laws of cause and effect, which we often only know of through deduction, underlie surface effects. But this is only observation and opinion on my part, no proof one way or the other.
I'll bet you already knew everything I just said lol Do you want to ask the question in a different way? Maybe I can guess in a different way lol
Karen , I ask this question because I don't know how it work ! The first picture is not mine .It comes from the forum at the University of Kyushu - this forum does not exist anymore! Sniff ... Sniff!
(I. nil (Africa) x I. purpurea (flaked)) x I. nil = F3 = MG with Plasma Ray Flow .
(I. nil (Africa) x I. purpurea (flaked)) = Youjiro
Youjiro X I. nil = F3 = MG with Plasma Ray Flow .
The mystery is this last ipomoea Nil used to produce the F3. I made dozens of crossing with Youjiro ... like everyone else on this forum ... and never got Plasma Ray Flow effect.
Emma has some MG with Plasma Ray Flow , ... she has created it or has she received it? we can recreate the experience or the chance counts for a lot!
I would create the 'five pieces of Cake' MG by crossing these two cultivars lol ! :
This is the equipment that you need to make MG hybrids .
+ ... a lot of imaginations !
Imagination often starts when I see a flower different from other flowers. Example, today I found this flower .
So I imagine the possible crosses.
Dany, I would be curious to see what kinds of offspring you would get with crossing this flower with each of the different kinds of blizzard, which are said to be dominant to the recessive solid pattern (there are exceptions to this).
But, I would also be curious to see if the recessive nature of the solid MG pattern would somehow enhance the ray flow pattern in a cross.
And what about those MGs with variegated leaves? Do variegated leaves somehow link to certain characteristics in flower patterns?? I wonder how this might play out with ray flow???
I love the variegated foliage, but find the blossoms are usually inferior. Wouldn't it be lovely to find brilliant interesting, abundant blossoms AND nice variegated foliage?
The hummingbirds don't seem very interested in Heavenly Blue but the swallowtail butterflies sure do. Anyone need any horseradish, it's taking over my raised bed garden... also the rhubarb has really multiplied.
Question for Karen!
1: a plant produces 98% of this type of flower.
2: 2% of flowers are unique of this kind of bloom.
When you cross the flower n° 2 , you use the genetics of this flower or the genetics of the plant ?
And in what proportion?
Dany, the only thing I can claim is a respect for the possibilities of morning glories - not knowledge.
My guess would be to use the genetics of the flower -
So all I can say at this point is to "self" and tag No. 2. And then, hopefully, if a pod ripens, to cross those seeds with each other to maximize the re-appearance of this pattern. I would try to grow out the vines of the F2 generation to their maximum length, which would maximize the number of seeds you could harvest. The more seeds from F2, the greater the possibility this pattern might occur in F3.
I can only talk in terms of what seems most likely from my limited knowledge base - not in exact percentages.
Like you, I would welcome any other ideas from others who are either more knowledgeable than I - or more serendipitous.
(To newbies reading this, selfing means pollinating the flower of interest with itself; that is, swish the pollen (that is on the anthers) of No. 2 onto the its stigma (see diagram here: http://www.cs.umb.edu/~whaber/Monte/Plant/Conv/conv-part.html ) There are a couple of entries for Tagging under POLLINATION in in this forum's index in the sticky)
That is a gorgeous flower - hope it comes back for you :)
Beautiful small bloom ... but to produce seeds !
Impossible because there is neither stamens nor pistil. "nobody is expected to do the impossible" .
This cultivar is probably an ancestor of Fuji no Monet ... it has no stamens and Youjiro leaves ... ideal for breeding!
With each flower I made a cross with one of the 500 cultivars present in the garden this year ... imagine the number of F1 seeds that I will have!
Next year I can only cultivate crosses from this plant!