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Clematis: Clem ID

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davidsl88
Worcester, MA

July 30, 2012
1:27 PM

Post #9223848

Please help ID these two clems. They both begin blooming anytime from April to May (depending on the winter/spring temps) and again in late summer (the blooms are much smaller). Both bloom on new growth. The color of the center of the white bloom is raspberry. Thanks.

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timeinabottle
Louisville, KY

August 1, 2012
4:54 PM

Post #9226377

I would guess and its only a guess that the first one is H.F. Young. As to the second I have no clue.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

August 2, 2012
1:40 AM

Post #9226740

Definitely HF Young for the first one. I was thinking perhaps Jan Paul - http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemdetail.cfm?dbkey=449

pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 2, 2012
5:37 AM

Post #9226840

Here's the third vote for H.F. Young.

As for the second one, it could be Miss Bateman.
davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 2, 2012
3:17 PM

Post #9227421

Thank you all very much!! I initially posted my request on Plant ID and someone there reminded me of this forum.

After a ton of research I decided the blue was HF Young but couldn't really be sure. I could not find the white bloom at all though and have been frustrated for 6 years. I agree that it's Miss Bateman (kwanjin also offered Miss Bateman on Plant ID). Finally I can put a name to my 'pain'... LOL! Thanks again!
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 2, 2012
5:41 PM

Post #9227564

We try hard. We put our collective brains together and most times do get answers for people. Enjoy those clem's.
Cem9165
Duluth, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 3, 2012
6:40 PM

Post #9228771

Those are lovely blooms, your 3rd and 4th picture also look like Otto Froebel. I'm glad you've found the names.
davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 3, 2012
9:04 PM

Post #9228927

Cem9165, thank you so much.

I do so appreciate the help here in identifying these gals... I have an annoying habit of buying the no-name dregs, at the end of the season (I love a challenge!) but I pay for it later... LOL!!

Thanks... I'm going to have a look at the Otto Froebel...

kwanjin

kwanjin
West Valley City, UT
(Zone 7a)

August 3, 2012
10:00 PM

Post #9228954

It does look like Otto Froebel. Availability and where you got it will also help in IDing your plants.
Cem9165
Duluth, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 4, 2012
3:51 AM

Post #9229015

Sorry to add to the confusion ;~). I know how frustrating it can be when you're trying to ID a plant. I forgot to ask what is the bloom size?
davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 4, 2012
7:39 AM

Post #9229198

After looking at the Otto, I am a bit confused! LOL!! Have a look, please, at this pic - is it better for ID? And the bloom is large, 6-8"... Votes for Miss. Bateman? M. Froebel? Thanks!

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pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 4, 2012
8:02 AM

Post #9229221

Otto: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=clematis otto froebel&num=10&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=494&tbm=isch&tbnid=kOwOFVoK2pwfbM:&imgrefurl=http://doctorvoice.org/viewtopic.php?f=152&t=42504&docid=PRIVrbpnjVcejM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Clematis_Otto_Froebel1a.UME.jpg/800px-Clematis_Otto_Froebel1a.UME.jpg&w=800&h=600&ei=tjgdUN26AaGo6wGRzYD4BQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=438&vpy=148&dur=1516&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=115&ty=71&sig=112308925549104554976&page=1&tbnh=135&tbnw=180&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:81

Miss Bateman: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=miss bateman clematis&num=10&hl=en&biw=769&bih=486&tbm=isch&tbnid=nKj7xrg7JgH4VM:&imgrefurl=http://www.crocus.co.uk/plants/_/climbers/clematis/large-flowering/classid.899/&docid=rqXMc45vCwzmtM&imgurl=http://www.crocus.co.uk/images/products2/PL/00/00/00/08/PL0000000899_card_lg.jpg&w=600&h=540&ei=NTkdUMzqIYPG6wGorYCwDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=381&vpy=138&dur=2328&hovh=213&hovw=237&tx=112&ty=144&sig=112308925549104554976&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=123&start=0&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:94


Judging by just these two photos I'd say it's Miss Bateman due to the ridges. (Just my vote.)

kwanjin

kwanjin
West Valley City, UT
(Zone 7a)

August 4, 2012
10:09 AM

Post #9229318

My vote goes to Miss B, too.
Cem9165
Duluth, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 4, 2012
2:40 PM

Post #9229588

I'm go to say Miss B as well due to the ridge detail, thanks for showing the comparison Arlene :-)

pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 4, 2012
2:55 PM

Post #9229603

On a hot and humid, horrible day, it's my pleasure to do some comparisons, Annette. Is it hot and humid in your area?
Cem9165
Duluth, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 4, 2012
3:03 PM

Post #9229612

It's actually cool and rainy, so refreshing from our summer heat. The garden is loving the respite from our hot weather.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 4, 2012
3:24 PM

Post #9229634

I did spot your report on another clem thread. Glad to hear you're getting a reprieve. This summer the heat has been extraordinary for so many of us. We should get rain and t'storms tomorrow.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

August 4, 2012
4:01 PM

Post #9229663

Had tornadoes come through not far from us last week. They are calling for severe storms tomorrow - any more it makes me nervous, especially when the winds come through.

Looking at the photo above, I will have to change my vote to Miss Bateman. The photo just above shows green bars, whereas the previous photo seemed to show a bit of lighter pink on the flower.

pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 4, 2012
5:38 PM

Post #9229759

I saw that hint of light pink and really liked it.

Good luck with the storms tomorrow, Carolyn. We're due to get them as well.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

August 4, 2012
5:52 PM

Post #9229771

Stay safe!
davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 5, 2012
12:05 PM

Post #9230422

Miss Bateman wins! Thanks very much all...

I hope your weather doesn't get any uglier...
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 6, 2012
6:49 PM

Post #9232361

Hi just got onto this discussion. I know the consensus is the first one is h.f young but it also looks like The President. What do you think?
Sharon
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 6, 2012
7:12 PM

Post #9232397

I doubt it. Look at the two and compare.

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Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

August 6, 2012
8:22 PM

Post #9232478

Definitely HF Young... not only are the anthers different, but the shape of the tepals are different as well.

Here is my HF Young with Alabast.



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hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 7, 2012
5:33 PM

Post #9233532

I concur!
Sharon
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 7, 2012
6:04 PM

Post #9233556

Welcome to the Clematis Forum, Sharon. We hope you enjoy it here.

Arlene
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 8, 2012
6:13 AM

Post #9233994

Thanks Carolyn, I love clematis. My Ville de Lyon was unbelievable this year as well as my Multi Blue. Arabella and Inspiration also did well. I have another one called ALjonushka, which blooms itself to death!
Sharon
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

August 8, 2012
11:40 AM

Post #9234407

So glad you have joined us, Sharon. Welcome.
davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 8, 2012
11:44 AM

Post #9234412

Carolyn, beautiful blooms, I'm green with envy... my clems bloomed spectacularly the first five years but this year was sort of a bust. They were both so leggy and brown from the ground to the top last year that this spring I took them all down to about 18-24". They quickly came back and covered the fence but the bloom, not so much. Miss Bateman barely bloomed and HF was just 'okay'. Also, something has been eating the blossoms - anyone know what and how to prevent?

Thanks again!
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 8, 2012
12:32 PM

Post #9234475

It's either slugs, earwigs or both. This product works for me. Read the instructions if you have pets.

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davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 8, 2012
12:56 PM

Post #9234511

Earwigs! They're everywhere in my flower beds. I even find them in my kitchen sink! (EW!) I never would have thought they eat blossoms... Thanks so much for the info and I'll get that stuff this weekend.
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 8, 2012
1:24 PM

Post #9234539

Earwigs eat everything. They are the bane of the garden. Disgusting!
Carolyn, I have a question and for anyone else out there. My Ville de Lyon has gotten very woody, so that it flowered beautifully, but at the top. Should I cut it down hard in the fall or the spring? I live in a 5b zone.
Thanks,
Sharon
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 8, 2012
1:36 PM

Post #9234556

David - earwigs will devour clematises, hostas, and many other plants. They love dahlias and it's horrid to cut a dahlia for a vase and find it is loaded with them.

Hugobee - I'm not Carolyn but she will probably pop in later. My Ville is also woody/ugly right now. If it wasn't so hot/humid/hazy I'd be out there cutting it back now and then giving it a drink of Epsom Salt.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

August 8, 2012
4:17 PM

Post #9234809

I am Carolyn - pirl is Arlene -

I definitely cut it back and give it a drink of epsom salts as Arlene said.

Sharon - do you cut back your type 3's in the spring? I typically do this when I see buds starting, which in our zone can be anytime between February and April. I know a good rule of thumb is to cut them back when the Forsythia blooms. That way it is easier to remember to cut them back. When you cut them back, cut them to the first or second node.



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pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 8, 2012
5:13 PM

Post #9234883

What a wonderful abundance of blooms, Carolyn!
davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 9, 2012
7:34 AM

Post #9235484

Should I cut mine back again? Two of them are getting 'woody' and brown- I assume the high heat and humidity are affecting them (along with the earwigs!).
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 9, 2012
9:31 AM

Post #9235570

You can study the stems and see if you see signs of new leaf breaks by the old blackened leaves. Then it's up to you to decide what to do. I cut mine back and allow new growth to provide the flowers for next year only because I can't stand the sight of black vines.

"Woody" isn't a bad thing. Many get a woody base like this montana Grandiflora. It doesn't impact their bloom at all as you can see by the second photo. Others get thin, ugly, multiple, woody stems but that isn't a bad sign either, just not a pretty one. Those I just endure and put a potted plant to hide the stems.

When I was working in one area last month I ripped the clematis from the iron scrollwork (at the right in this third photo) not realizing I was ripping out the tops of the stems of two clematises. So I'm left with the woody base of multiple stems until they green up again. Thankfully, I guess, the heat is keeping me inside and I don't have to see it.

The best cure for ugly stems that need cutting back, or ugly bases, is definitely caladiums. No need to lift the caladiums in the fall unless you want to, but I don't. I love how they hide the ugly legs and bases of clematises. Next year I'll be ordering many more caladiums for this purpose as well as for the absolute beauty of them. Look for Bill's Classified Ads at the end of December to January for his DG special - caladiumbulbs4less.com - he's the best and so are his caladiums.

Thumbnail by pirl   Thumbnail by pirl   Thumbnail by pirl   Thumbnail by pirl
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pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 9, 2012
9:35 AM

Post #9235573

Here's one more "clematis leg hider" that I just love! It's caladium 'White Christmas' and 'Salsa' salvia.

Thumbnail by pirl
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davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 9, 2012
10:45 AM

Post #9235653

Pirl - I have some caladium - what a great idea! And thanks for the tip for the bulbs too, I'll have to put a reminder in my phone as I never remember to look at my to-do list... My stems and leaves are turning brown again from the bottom up - I just hate the way it looks.

I planted money plant seeds in the early spring and then weeks later pulled them all out as weeds. I was so satisfied with my hard work until I realized what I'd done! I watched hoping I missed 1 or 2, but nope. Good job! LOL!
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 9, 2012
1:19 PM

Post #9235851

It's rotten when we pull seedlings. You're not the only one to have done it. I pulled some poppy seedlings truly believing they were weeds.

Some caladium are taller than others so I'd avoid the strap leaved varieties (shorter but more leaves) and go for the "fancy" (large, tall leaves) varieties. Here's White Wing by a clematis and it's just not tall enough.

The caladiums will provide some shade/cooling for the clematis roots and they don't disrupt the clematis roots as hosta, perennials or some annuals would do.

The second photo here shows Pink Gem (a strap leaved variety) that's too low to do the job but, happily, the stems don't show anyhow. Live and learn.

The next time you plant seeds you can use either white plastic knives to outline the area and let you know you have seeds planted or something like coffee stirrers to alert you. Both work well and can easily be removed when the plants are growing.

Thumbnail by pirl   Thumbnail by pirl   Thumbnail by pirl
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davidsl88
Worcester, MA

August 10, 2012
2:56 PM

Post #9237051

Thanks for the tips on the caladium - I like your pics and the looks of those plants together - AND for the reminder suggestions. Who doesn't have plastic flatware? Those seeds were given me by a generous cousin and she's asking if any of them came up! I stall, a lot! It must have been the high heat... LOL!!
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 10, 2012
3:16 PM

Post #9237072

It's a mistake many of us do make so just mark all plots in the future to act as an alert not to "weed".

Your cousin will understand and probably get a chuckle out of it. Likely you'll get more seeds.
kiseta
Augusta, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 10, 2012
3:49 PM

Post #9237104

Hi everybody, I have been cutting 6" wide limbs that landed next to me, it was 12' long, it would of gave me a headache, but God is good, it missed me. I also have White Christmas, calediums but mine are not as large leaves also my red one called Florida Cardinal, I bougt them in Lowes, I guess the special place would be better. Pirl, what is the name of your #4 caledium, I like that more then the White Ch. Behind the WCh caledium, I already have 2 large container of Coleus cutting growing very well. My HL Young is blooming since yesterday, so pretty soon I will have some more bloomes. That is a good idea about the coffee stirrers, I always wonder where I planted some bulbs, sometime I dig them out .Etelka

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pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 10, 2012
5:18 PM

Post #9237171

Thank goodness the limbs didn't hurt you or the house.

I rooted about 100 coleus in the last few weeks and they all seem to be thriving.

That #4 is Stardust hiding the stems of Vino and Ruutel. It's very tall in the shade. Here it only gets early morning light. Another photo of it is attached.

I've learned my lesson in the past and now only buy from Bill (caladiumbulbs4less.com) through his DG Classified Ad in December/January.

Thumbnail by pirl
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hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 11, 2012
5:50 PM

Post #9238352

OMG! I forgot to check this thread because I have been so busy worrying about my tomatoes. Carolyn, I must be honest, I haven't done much pruning with my clematis. Ville de Lyon has been left basically as is. So next year I will be more vigilant and prune it back in spring.
Thanks, sharon
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

August 11, 2012
5:54 PM

Post #9238357

Sharon

when you do that, make sure you scratch a bit of fertilizer into the soil as well. I give my clematis the same fertilizer as I give to my roses.

hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 14, 2012
10:13 AM

Post #9241294

Thanks, Carolyn will do.

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