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Fruits and Nuts: Best Way to Transplant a Himrod Grapevine

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PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

August 5, 2012
5:38 PM

Post #9230852

I was ordering Home Run roses online since I could not find them locally, noticed Himrod grapes and bought a small plant on an impulse - I have to stop doing this since I just learned that Lowes has them locally. Anyway, it is chopped down as can be seen in the picture, the vine is a good half inch in diameter and it is in about a 5" pot. There is a spot in the front landscape bed right off the front porch that has full sun and I'd like to plant it there. I'm wondering if I should just put it in the ground now, or should it go in a 1 or 2 gallon pot, keep it indoors for the winter, and transplant in the Spring? We have a glass door, lots of windows, and skylights in the kitchen where there is a good amount of sun - like a sun room in the dining area of the kitchen. Any suggestions for the best way to do this?

I wasn't sure what to expect by mail order, at least the vine is about 1/2 inch and not just a toothpick size:

Thumbnail by PeteB7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

August 7, 2012
9:07 PM

Post #9233749

Spoke to a person at the Connecticut Cooperative Extension Office and he said to harden it for the spot where I want to plant it over a weeks time, then go ahead and plant it outdoors. He suggested protecting it after all the leaves drop.
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

August 10, 2012
6:53 PM

Post #9237255

Pete, You made a good choice. I planted a larger one, probably a year older, last year, and have lots of grapes this year. When you protect the plant, also protect the ground, as roots can freeze, too. First Himrod i ever tasted, but they are very good when they get ripe enough to pull off the stem easily. I planted several varieties last year and Himrods were the earliest to ripen, and one of the most prolific producers.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

August 10, 2012
7:14 PM

Post #9237282

Thanks for the tips! I will mulch them well over the winter. Hope I don't have to wait too many years. We have a lot of wild grapes around here that do not taste good, so I thought why not plant some good seedless types.
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

August 15, 2012
9:24 PM

Post #9243117

Pete,

My plants have covered the grape arbor and buckets and buckets of grapes, with the Himrods ripe now and far the best. But California is famous for producing lots of fruits and nuts, but the nuts seem to get most of the publicity. LOL. I dried about 3 gallons and got about a pint of the best tasting raisins i have ever had. Just a touch of tartness and not too sweet but sweet enough.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

October 28, 2012
4:53 PM

Post #9318327

Thanks Ernie good to know and wow those raisins sound excellent!

I've been distracted but finally planted it few days ago. I noticed that it is from a
cutting so that is why it is so large and old looking. It really thrived over the
summer and probably grew 4 or 6" longer. I noticed that the pot drained very well
and I think that was part of why it did so well. The roots were really jammed
into the small pot.
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

October 29, 2012
8:12 AM

Post #9318890

Pete,

I planted about 5 different varieties around my Arbor, and the Himrod is so much better grape than most of the others, i am either going to remove a couple and put Himrod cuttings in their place, or try to graft Himrod on the existing plants. I have done some tree grafting but do not know yet if grapes can be grafted like that. Most grapes are started from cuttings.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

October 29, 2012
1:33 PM

Post #9319309

Hi Ernie,

I'm probably going to buy a few more plants so please let us know which ones you are not going to try again.

I wrote up a response here but it is gone, I might have taken a phone call and forgot to come back and hit send. Anyway, we have a lot of wild grape vines around here and our side bed had at least 2 large ones growing up some small trees. I cut them down but left the base and root in place and am also interested in grafting a cutting from a good plant such as a Himrod or a red variety onto the old established root system. I don't think I'll be able to take a large enough cutting from this Himrod until next season and even then it will be small. I'll have to look around for a source. I suppose I could buy another plant and then graft the entire stem to it.
Please keep us up to date on your grafting.

Found this excellent writeup on grafting grape vines:
http://berrygrape.org/an-illustrated-guide-to-field-grafting-grapevines/

This message was edited Oct 29, 2012 3:51 PM

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

October 29, 2012
2:14 PM

Post #9319354

I'm thinking of buying a few grape vines to graft as I mentioned in the last post. Looking at Canadice, Vanessa, and Reliance all from the Miller Catalog:
http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=450

http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=442

http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=451

Interlaken looks good also:
http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=438

Anyone have experience with these? I'm just interested in table grapes not wine making.
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

October 29, 2012
9:49 PM

Post #9319762

Pete,

In Idaho i liked the Muscat, and the both blue and white Concords. I had a couple of others, but did not like them and do not remember the names.

Down here, besides the Himrod, i have blue concord, which i also liked this year, and a very light crop of Black Monukka, which were good. Thompson Seedless never got sweet, Flame seedless had lots of small grapes, Bees loved the Flames, but i did not care much for them, and i have a Perlette, that i did not care for. I am going to start some more Himrods. I found good articles for both grafting and taking cuttings on Google this morning. I can give you lots of Himrod cuttings, but not supposed to take them until they go dormant, which will be quite a while yet.

From what i read this morning, i think cuttings will be much easier, but not as fast, so i am going with the cuttings instead of the grafts.

Dmail me your address in December, and i will send you some cuttings.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

October 30, 2012
4:50 PM

Post #9320528

Thanks so much Ernie!
I didn't even think of mailing cuttings, I suppose if they are wrapped in damp paper towel or something it would work. Let's only do this if it is very easy for you, I really don't want to put you to the trouble.
I will send my address if so, and thanks again!

I was thinking of going somewhere locally to get a few cuttings but I can't think of anyplace.

My theory on grafting is that the large established root system will make the graft thrive. The main stem that I cut is about 1.5" in diameter.

Pete
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

October 30, 2012
7:58 PM

Post #9320681

Pete, There are lots of cuttings for different trees and other plants shipped around and that is how a lot of large propagators get their scion stock and bud sticks, too.
But those are in commercial quantities, and hard to find a company that will sell just a few, so that leaves the problem of finding someone that has what you need.

I am glad to help you out, and if you happen to find some one that has a Muscat grape vine, maybe you can get me a few cuttings from it. I could not find anyone that even sold Muscat vines when i planted my Arbor.

On the grafting, i like to bud graft but my experience has only been on trees. When i was reading about grafting the grapes, the writer mentioned that the copious sap flow of the grapevines can push the bud graft out of place. That reminded me of one Spring when i pruned my vines late, of how much sap they pumped out, so realizing that could be a problem, i decided cuttings would be much easier.

Ernie

ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

December 28, 2012
4:30 PM

Post #9369378

Pete,
I do not imagine you are thinking of Springtime back there yet, but we have short winters out here, and i will be pruning my grapevines next month. If you have not found a local source for the Himrod grape cuttings, send me your mailing address, by Dmail if you prefer, and i will send you a few. I am going to just stick some in the ground, and a few in potting mix, and see which will do better.

I prefer the Himrod to some of the others, so if i get the cuttings to take, i will most likely take out the Perlette, and plant a Himrod there as well as a couple of other places. My Thompson Seedless did not get sweet enough last year so i will give in another chance, and if it does not do better, i will replace it with a Himrod, too.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

February 6, 2013
8:29 AM

Post #9410153

Hi Ernie,

Thanks so much, just sent my address if it is not too late!

Pete
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

February 7, 2013
12:26 PM

Post #9411278

Pete,
I got your email, and the last time i looked they had not broken bud, so if that is still the case, Ii will send you some.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

February 7, 2013
2:13 PM

Post #9411385

Thanks so much Ernie, very kind of you! I hope I can return the favor sometime, I do remember that you were looking for Muscat and I'll keep my eye out for them.
I was hoping to graft them onto a huge root system of wild grapes that has probably been here for 30 years or so. I have no idea if it is too cold or not here - have to do some research.

I've mentioned several times on here that we often have mild winters here, well we're having a cold spell. We've been having consistend lows in the 20s, and teens a few weeks ago, even single digits on Jan 24, lol, that's cold for here so much for mild!

I did transplant that Himrod vine back in October, gave it a lot of mulch to get through the winter sure wish I had covered it for more protection.

This message was edited Feb 7, 2013 5:25 PM

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

February 7, 2013
4:18 PM

Post #9411478

Found this searching for how to graft, and it shows how to graft a fairly small scion onto a much larger trunk just like the situation that I have:
http://berrygrape.org/an-illustrated-guide-to-field-grafting-grapevines/

From what I read there, I should wrap the scions in damp newspaper and store them in the refrigerator until late Spring "late spring when the vines are starting to push new growth".

This is my plan for now, unless anyone has a better suggestion.

This is also very informative:
http://winemakersjournal.blogspot.com/2009/04/grafting-grape-vines.html

This covers grafting a mango scion, and I wonder if a grape vine could be done in the same way:
[HYPERLINK@www.youtube.com]

This message was edited Feb 7, 2013 7:41 PM
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

February 8, 2013
8:21 PM

Post #9412713

Pete,

I did collect your cuttings and they are wrapped in damp paper towels, put in a ziplock, and in the fridge. We will mail them next week.

If you are going to graft instead of rooting, you will not need to worry about the callus that helps them root. Timing is very important for grafting and budding, as it varies by the difference in the weather, so if you could find a local that has done it, he could help you with the timing. It took me several attempts to bud graft down here in SO. CA, as the timing was so much different than in NO Idaho.

But the key thing for all grafting is to be sure the cambium layers make good contact between the scion and the root stock.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

February 10, 2013
7:51 AM

Post #9414062

Thanks again Ernie I really appreciate it!

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

February 12, 2013
6:21 PM

Post #9417155

Ernie, you say timing is very important, I'll try to ask around but I don't really know anyone who grows grapes. One of the previous links says to graft in "late spring when the vines are starting to push new growth".
I'm expecting some new suckers from the big old root stock, so would the start of their growth be a good indicator?

This looks like an excellent paper on growing grapes in CT, not even very far from me:
http://www.ct.gov/caes/lib/caes/documents/publications/bulletins/b1007.pdf

I'll try to contact the author of that article or someone at the CT Extension office.

ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

February 13, 2013
8:12 AM

Post #9417629

Pete, In my comments on timing, I would not think it would be helful to have the scion stock that is nearly ready to break bud grafted onto very dormant understock, or vice versa. If the bud breaks before the graft has taken, the bud will starve. So keep the scion stock cold and dormant until you graft.

I found a lot of grape grafting information info on Google, but no mention of working with material from very different climates. I sent you several scion sticks, so maybe you pot some and keep from freezing, as well as grafting some at different times. Perhaps even stick one or two in the ground and see if it takes.

The grafts must be prevented from drying out until they form growth to cover themselves.

Try some at different times, because once the sap starts flowing, that will interfere.

A lot of what all of us do is just trying to find out what works and what does not.

Good luck,
Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

February 14, 2013
7:51 AM

Post #9418798

I'm thinking that grow tubes might be a good way to protect the graft:
http://www.mdtgrow.com/growtubes.html

Any opinions on them?
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

February 14, 2013
8:31 AM

Post #9418868

Pete,
I used some pots that other plants came in, about 2" sq and 6 or 7" tall. Rose bushes and berry or grape vines are usually sold in them. They are okay, if you plan to leave them in the pots for a year until the roots are able to hold a ball, they are the proper ones, but i plan to take them out later this Spring and transplant as bareroot.So, if i had not happened to have the tall sq containers i would have just put several in each one gallon pot, or whatever i had. Since we are both dong this for the first time, i suggest trying different methods to see what works the best.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

April 3, 2013
8:34 AM

Post #9470633

It has been warming up here, we had a few days in the mid 50s.
Today started in the mid 20s, LOL!
I'm thinking I should do the grafts but with it dipping back down to
the 20s I'm not sure ...

I wasn't able to find a local expert for an opinion. Maybe I should call
the extension office again.
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

April 3, 2013
10:58 AM

Post #9470743

Pete, it is always a good idea to talk to your Extension agent.

I lost several of my indoor cuttings to mold, as i was over cautjous preventing them from drying out, but managed to get two real strong plants aind two pretty good ones. I shared them with Ray Der Phan, as he gives me tomato plants and such.

But i had 75% success with the ones i just stuck in the ground beside the older vines, so, that is the way i will do them from now on. You may want to try some that way, too. I just dipped them in root hormone, poked a hole in the ground with a big screw driver, stuck the cuttings in the hole, and then packed the dirt back in around the cuttings with the tip of my cane. You do not have to use a cane, as any things will work to get the air out of the hole, but i had mine handy.

Ernie



PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

May 10, 2013
7:25 PM

Post #9516289

Hi Ernie,

Well, Himrod grapes have been on my mind - I thought they might be exotic after buying them from a catalog and what do you know, HD, Lowes, and Walmart have them. But again, thank you very much for the cuttings.

The first plant in the original post here did not do well, I was told to cover it after all the leaves dropped and they took forever to drop, then storm Sandy came, and I never covered it, lol! There are still no leaves and most of the suckers (is that the right term) have fallen off. I don't think it is dead and I expect it to perk up when the warm weather comes.

I did some test grafting today and I think it went well, I'll start a new thread on it.
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

May 10, 2013
10:42 PM

Post #9516454

Pete,
I understood that they were in production, just not commonly available, when i read about them, and still have not seen the grapes for sale under that name, but the reviews and comments were very favorable, and i found them to be by far the best tasting grapes and raisins that i have had. So i am sure they will become plentiful.

My first attempt at budding grapes was mediocre. The bunch i did during the winter was hit by mold, and i only got three good ones. The one i kept is fantastic, a foot tall, and with five big leaves, and the two i gave away, last i heard, one was good and one was still okay.

But late in the season i stuck four cuttings in the ground, and three leafted out, but when a hot spell hit, the new roots could not keep the leaf supplied, and the leaves are withering, so i do not expect much from them. I am going to do tip layering the next time, as that is pretty near fool proof, but i do not need any more, now that i have the one nice one to start a second location.

I do not recall which Nursery i bought my original one from, but the Berry cuttings i bought in the Nurseries were very new and poorly rooted, and i had poor luck with those surviving, and by the time they die, it is usually too late to replace them, so all you get is your money back, and have to wait another year to get started.

I do hope you get a start, one way or the other, as they are so good, and grow so fast.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

May 12, 2013
9:37 AM

Post #9517880

I started a new thread here covering the grafting, first round was practice, the Himrods are next:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1311977/

We are finally getting some rain, almost nothing in April, so I hope that the Himrod from the start of this thread takes off. I also purchased another Himrod and 2 Reliance from Lowes and HD, planted these in the ground and plan to add a Canadice in the ground also. Then I also have the grafted scions, 2 Canadice and 2 Relaince and hope to have 4 Himrod scions also grafted very soon.

Hopefully we'll have some grapes in a few years!
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

May 12, 2013
12:32 PM

Post #9518012

Pete,
Nothing has been grown on this ground for 20 years, prior to me moving here a couple of years ago, and it is just tremendously fertile. So i have been outside whacking Grapevines before they take the place.

I have lots of baby grapes, and am pruning the vines at the second leaf above the grapes. Most of the grapes i have seen so far are Himrods, with some Concord, The Flame and others have not set much fruit yet.

I think i see some new buds forming on the cuttings that lost their first leaf, so will wait and see if they survive. I am sure you will get a lot of satisfaction from the Grafting. I hired most of the bud grafting done by professionals on the Nursery, but did some myself just to learn, and i really enjoyed that. I hope you have a high percentage of success with them. I will check out your new thread.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

October 15, 2013
9:46 AM

Post #9686457

Hi Ernie,
You probably remember that I tried to graft 4 of the Himrod cuttings that you sent but did them incorrectly so they are probably dead. I planted the other 4 in pots and 2 of them took very nicely, they do seem to be very vigorous. I finally transplanted them to the edge of our property that is up against state land. They get full sun here and I think it is a very good spot.

Thumbnail by PeteB7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

October 24, 2013
10:30 AM

Post #9693870

Hello, Pete,

I have not been on this site much, what with the change in the site's format, and the frustrating campaigns that take place, but format seems to be working okay, on this thread, at least.

I only had one place to plant a Himrod cutting this year, and it grew like gangbusters, too. That one is along a fence, but i plan to only let it get about 15 feet wide. More grapes and less leaves, by controlling growth.

I may take out a couple of the less tasty Arbor vines, and put himrods in their place, but not sure, as the arbor is so nicely covered now, and it would take a year to recover.

I hope your climate produces fruit next year.

Ernie

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

April 14, 2014
6:28 AM

Post #9812135

Hi Ernie,
Hope you are still coming on here and are doing well.

We had so much snow and cold this past winter!
The Himrod from the store in the front grew a lot last season
and is now about 8' tall. I'm not sure if I should prune it back
at all ... any tips?

The two grafts from you are still there, but I think the snow
broke off most of the growth from last season. The main stems
look fine and I expect them to grow well as it warms up here.
Any suggestions for fertilizing? Do they like it frequent or ...?

Thanks again for all your help Ernie!
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

April 14, 2014
8:10 AM

Post #9812237

Pete,


We had an unusually dry warm winter here. I stuck a hardwood cutting along the fence last Spring and it grew up about 8 feet tall and i trained two branches, one about four feet and one about six feet. The new growth is loaded with grape buds. I certainly did not expect such quick performance as the other varieties here do not bear fruit so young.

On the pruning and shaping, and thiss is just my personal preference, is i let it grow the first year, training it to the basic shape i want, and then cut back to that framework. I leave two buds where i prune for next year;s growth, and cut completely back where i do not want a new branch. You will still get some adventitious buds break out. so either leave or remove as you choose. Grapes will be produced on NEW growth From last years wood. Sometimes that varies but that seems to be the most common growth pattern.

I had far too much growth last year, so i am trying something new this year. I prune the new vines above the first leaf above where the little grape clusters are foming, trying to direct more energy into those grapes.

I will try to attach a picture of the one on the Fence.

Ernie

Thumbnail by ERNIECOPP
Click the image for an enlarged view.

PeteB7

PeteB7
Trumbull, CT
(Zone 7a)

April 14, 2014
3:10 PM

Post #9812666

Sounds like you're having amazing results Ernie, nice isn't it?

Thanks for the picture I think I get the idea, and the reminder
about old wood. I'm training it toward the front porch, then I
plan to put up a small cross poll between two of the pain posts
to hang it from so we can pick them right from the porch if
things go well.
It is still early here, just warming up but it will be something if
we get grapes this year!
ERNIECOPP
Vista, CA

April 14, 2014
5:05 PM

Post #9812765

Pete,

I sure hope yours grows as well back there, but that cold weather may hold it back.

Good luck,
Ernie

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