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Perennials: What are you sorry you planted pt.#2

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ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

August 12, 2012
4:26 AM

Post #9238651

Thought I would start a new thread:
In May ,DD asked if she could use my trellises for pole beans.
They are out of controle.
They are attached to the evergreen tips and going to the giants house.

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ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

August 12, 2012
4:28 AM

Post #9238654

Old thread:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/446583/

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

August 12, 2012
4:35 PM

Post #9239258

I didn't plant them but I have enough wild carrots and mulberry trees to fill bushels!!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

August 15, 2012
7:17 PM

Post #9242987

Juhur...I want mulberry trees!!!!!! Are they white or Russian? Can I pay to have some babies shipped? Kathy


My problem is Lemon grass, I made the mistake of planting it and now it's taking over everything around it...Here comes the round-up!!!!!!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

August 15, 2012
7:30 PM

Post #9243008

warriorswisdomkathy To be honest with you I would say red or white they are mostly but I don't really know for sure,lol
We have at least three kinds that grow here. And sure we can work something out. Talk with you again in a while.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

August 15, 2012
8:11 PM

Post #9243050

It probably would be better if I described them to you as mostly the ones with a large round spreading crown 30 40 ft. tall.
Every so often you will see one the that grows upright taller and thinner and is another variety of the species.
There is also one that grows across town from me that actually has thorns,I had not recalled any with thorns till I had seen that.Not to worry though I don't have any of the thorned type!lolmulberryleaves.jpg
hort.purdue.edu
IF the link works this is what is here.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

August 15, 2012
8:35 PM

Post #9243078

Do you like the taste of the fruit? Me, I miss it and would love!!! to have some on my property, (I live on % acres so not to worry about the mess, lol...I grew up eating the russian mulberries and yup thinking back they were about 35-40ft. If your interested in doing a trade or just wanna ship me a couple of babies (under 42", post office has a tube box), I will gladly pay postage)...Thanks, Kathy.

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juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

August 15, 2012
8:47 PM

Post #9243088

I use to love mulberry when I was younger,I have not eaten any of them in a while,When my really old tree came down in a storm ,grandma said "don't grow or plant any more of them messy things"
I will check out the tube and c.o.d. shipping only I might just send them to you,so you can have a look at what your getting.
How many would you like or or want,I know I have at least three one year trees growing in the back yard,Then there's the two I have burned , sawed ,and dug, and chain sawed from the ground that are growing rather nicely,A couple of rather large roots perhaps? lol.
Then there are random others here and about.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

August 15, 2012
9:10 PM

Post #9243110

lol!!!! I promise I will plant them in an area they can have to themselves...I'll send you a d-mail...thanks kathy
ryguy319
Owosso, MI
(Zone 5b)

August 16, 2012
11:23 AM

Post #9243577

I regret planting Hodini plant can't remember the exact name just know it as Hodini plant.
It is just coming up everywhere so I'm pulling it everywhere it comes up I don;t want it which is everywhere.
Jan
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 16, 2012
11:47 AM

Post #9243594

Jan - if it's really Houttuynia cordata 'Chameleon' you've got a major job on your hands.

Pretty, colorful leaves?

Edited to clarify: it's the leaves at the lower left side that are the Houttuynia, not the dayliles.

This message was edited Aug 16, 2012 2:49 PM

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ryguy319
Owosso, MI
(Zone 5b)

August 16, 2012
12:30 PM

Post #9243656

Yes that is it and I know but you know your picture showing it with your daylilies it looks so pretty it does add something to the greenery doesn't it.
But it just takes over but that does give me an idea on how to keep it if I ever get it under control. I think I would like to put it in a hanging basket with some brightly colored blooms not sure what ones but it would make a nice greenery display with the bright flowered plants too don't you think.
And then through the winter it would probably stay alive in the hanging basket an then in the spring just pull some of it out and plant in some new brightly colored annuals.
What do you think? I know I have to concentrate on getting control of it in my flower bed first.
Thanks for the correct name.
Jan
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 16, 2012
1:36 PM

Post #9243763

Jan - My honest thought is do not even consider it no matter how pretty it looks. There is no such thing as "just pull some of it out". Believe me. It expanded here for well over 50' wide and 12' in depth. The roots go down well beyond what you may read about on sites. I dug every inch, amid major pine roots, from July 12, 2011 through November. I had to dig up and pot up each daylily, more than 200 of them. Then we put down black plastic to solarize the soil. I peeled it back yesterday and it looks great but I was digging the Houttuynia 8 and 12 hour days for MONTHS.

I think the photos are self-explanatory. The timbers lining the bed (so I wouldn't expand it) gave perfect cover to the roots so they were a major problem to eliminate. Often my head was underground as I examined the bottom of the pine roots to check for bits of roots.

It invaded the lawn and I still have a few spots to dig. None of the weed killers, even used full strength, actually killed the roots. It killed the greenery but not the roots.

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ryguy319
Owosso, MI
(Zone 5b)

August 16, 2012
3:32 PM

Post #9243921

Arghh I know now I really hate that plant.
Mine is also coming down out of the bottom of a raised planting bed so you are right.
I'm in for a fight.
Jan
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 16, 2012
3:52 PM

Post #9243944

These are not the largest of the pine roots but it took 6.5 hours to clean this spot.

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kneff
Dearborn, MI
(Zone 5b)

August 24, 2012
1:08 AM

Post #9251893

I agree with pirl. Don't let that plant into your yard. I have been fighting it for years. I think I've gotten it all and then it pops up ten feet away in the middle of an astilbe or a bleeding heart--or even between the rocks edging my pond! A piece of root one inch long will soon be a new plant. And then there's the unpleasant scent...
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 24, 2012
9:21 AM

Post #9252184

There may be a ray of hope. I tried undiluted Weed B Gon with some success and just used Brush B Gon, also with some success. The next week should tell me if either product worked but all we can judge by is above the ground death and not by what is going on underground. It may take until next April before I can call it a success.

As for plants it grows into...all you can do is remove the plants, the rocks, whatever and do not replant them unless you feel with 100% certainty that you have thoroughly examined the plant and removed every speck of growth. It's just not worth the hassle.

Now I have to dig up an established clematis and a peony to check for Houtt. roots but will still containerize the plants.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

August 26, 2012
8:58 PM

Post #9254906

Gosh I'm glad I, checked out the newest posts...I definately won't be planting any of that, I was considering it as a groundcover...nope I'll use my Lemon Grass instead, lol...

Oh Pirl...I just have to tell ya I picked up 5 new clems for $1 a peice, 2 C. Victoria, 2 Honora and 1 unk. Had lousy bloom this season, hoping next year is better tho...

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pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

August 27, 2012
4:34 AM

Post #9255048

It's a beauty that's just not worth the zillion problems it causes, Kathy. I'd like to spend the rest of my life enjoying the garden and not working like a crazed person to eliminate a plant I was fool enough to plant. Of course, at the time I bought it and planted it, I did not have a computer to access DG and check what others thought of it.

Yesterday I did dig the clematis (after having to cut 16 pine roots with a saw, underground) and the peony. Before I left that spot I looked under the slab of bluestone and you can guess what I found - Houtt. roots! I'll use the undiluted Brush B Gon. When I checked previously treated areas and dug up what was there (just to check roots), I didn't find many - just three and I treated them.

I saw your post about your $1.00 clem's on another thread and looked at the sale table at Lowe's but they didn't have any! Keep giving those clematises manure, compost and Epsom salt (1 TB to a gallon of lukewarm water) and they should do fine.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 4, 2012
11:40 PM

Post #9265405

Redbud trees , nutgrass, and about six volunteer autumn clematis have also appeared, only as before I didn't plant anything besides the Redbud tree the one just about as tall as the house now, but the small ones are easy to do away with.So I cannot truly say I am sorry I planted it because it has always been a long time spring blooming favorite.
It is really not all that bad to trim the wild ones to look like a tree instead of a bush ,however I wish I would of bought a panda redbud anyway! never satisfied it seems lol.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 16, 2012
1:59 PM

Post #9276833

How about Stinging Nettle I might yet be sorry I planted that!!lol




warriorswisdomkathy Eh mom Eh mom mom,mom, mom, Mother , Mother Eh mom
Read your MAIL, Pleeeeeeeese, pretty pleeeease!LOL

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 16, 2012
5:57 PM

Post #9277088

Since today's article about Honeyvine milkweed I have that everyplace also, and no as to I didn't exactly plant it either

Apologies to ge1836 for all the thread stray,but this has been interesting.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 11, 2012
8:43 AM

Post #9302335

This variety of Lamium.It is very aggressive,I mean within a month it has coveres about 10 aquare feet of my garden.These are established plants that behaved when the area was part shade but removal of a tree has given them ubergrowing power.
Lamium Maculatem.Its due for roundup in the spring. It will require hand painting leaves on the plants as they are over some new echies and iris.

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juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

October 11, 2012
10:43 AM

Post #9302417

I find that interesting as that is suppose to be a shade plant!!!

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 11, 2012
11:40 AM

Post #9302471

It did do OK in shade when the tree was up.
The sun has moved south and there is more shade in that spot now so the lamium was charging right along. I will treat wi\th Roundup when the temperatures are warmer in spring to see if I can get rid of most of it.
luciee
Hanceville, AL
(Zone 7a)

October 12, 2012
6:41 AM

Post #9303004

Thanks for posting info about the houttyuni











Thanks for posting about the houdini plant. I had at one time thought about planting it. I'm glad I did not. Luciee {;^)










pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 15, 2012
7:45 PM

Post #9306578

I'm glad for you, Luciee! The undiluted Brush B Gon worked very well. Haven't found any more of it, thankfully.

Lamium! It grows anywhere and everywhere and it's my latest scourge but I'll spray tomorrow with Brush B Gon and hope it kills it. This area was perfectly weeded and then it appeared like magic - evil black magic!

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ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 16, 2012
2:08 AM

Post #9306715

Its too cold here for those herbisides but I will get B-BG in the spring.I am tired of the lamium.The slow growing pretty one has been overtaken by the maculatum

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pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
3:35 AM

Post #9306733

We'll remain in the 60's this week so I'll be spraying.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

October 16, 2012
6:28 AM

Post #9306835

As pretty as some Lamium are - I love the heavily-silvered leaves - I've banished it from my garden after it went "rogue". I'm still pulling it from some spots. It seemed to self-sow into some less-than-pretty plants that traveled everywhere. I'd put it up there with sweet woodruff which also runs rampant here and is just as difficult to remove.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
10:29 AM

Post #9307092

I'm awfully fond of Sweet Woodruff...
frahnzone5
Bensenville, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 16, 2012
2:26 PM

Post #9307299

It is always interesting how plants behave so differently from garden to garden and region to region. I have a hard time keeping lamium alive. I was told it was a good ground cover in dry shade - it's not for me - died the first summer planted. Currently the only patch I have is under a Katsura tree in rich, moist soil. The clump just sits there and hardly grows at all. My hated plant is lemon balm. Planted one tiny plant several years ago and it has re-seeded everywhere!

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 16, 2012
2:56 PM

Post #9307313

OMG I forgot about that menace
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

October 16, 2012
3:01 PM

Post #9307316

I knew not to plant lemon balm in the ground. Anyone experience Artemisia 'Limelight'? I bought it when it first came out, before anyone warned of invasiveness. Gave some to DD and that plant went ballistic in TN - everywhere! Luckily I managed to get mine out of the ground. She was glad to leave that plant behind when she moved and she's never let me forget that I unleashed that plant on her.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
3:45 PM

Post #9307337

I'm so thankful I missed out on Lemon Balm. Can't imagine how it didn't lure me into its trap.

Yes, Cindy. I had it for a short time and saw it popping up in a 3' circle around the mother plant. It came out immediately.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
4:23 PM

Post #9307359

Yes, lemon balm is a mess. But on the bright side, I love weeding it out because it smells so good!

What I can't get rid of (and maybe I mentioned this earlier) is Persicaria Virginiana 'Lance Corporal.' Sweet, but oh so invasive.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
4:58 PM

Post #9307410

You may want to try the concentrated (undiluted) Brush B Gon or Weed B Gon on it. Just coat the leaves, especially the new growth and on a day when rain is not in the forecast. BBG works faster than WBG but they both work in a few days at most.

Be sure to cover any nearby plants!
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
5:07 PM

Post #9307424

Pirl -- I don't know if you are directing that suggestion to me or Cindy. I really try not to use herbicides (though I do use Roundup on poison ivy...). Plus, the problem with the Persicaria isn't that it is hard to pull out -- it isn't. But I can never find all of it and then it reseeds before I catch it. So it is mostly at bay, but I have to keep at it each year.

Not like Aegepodium (bishop's weed). I didn't plant that -- it was here when we moved in -- but it is a menace! We will never be rid of it, and if I so much as turn my back it spreads by leaps and bounds!
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
5:22 PM

Post #9307430

It was for you but it would apply to anyone who is really disgusted with a particular plant that is too invasive or aggressive. I also try not to use such products but now and then we do face challenges. I did eliminate my Aegopodium by applying Round Up every other day and it did work.

I've had a Persicaria so I know what you mean. It does reseed fast!
1alh1
Sidney, OH
(Zone 6a)

October 16, 2012
5:27 PM

Post #9307432

My nemesis for a few years was Chinese Lantern...then Obedient Plant. Those underground runners were prolific racers that threatened every nearby plant.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
5:39 PM

Post #9307447

Cindy: I'm impressed if you conquered Aegepodium. Maybe this spring I'll succumb and use RoundUp!
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 16, 2012
6:18 PM

Post #9307469

The ONLY good thing about Lemon balm - the previous owner had it everywhere, and I discovered something about it, at least in my yard. It is fairly narrow in terms of root, and wherever it is - there is nothing under it. I used it for markers in terms of where I could dig and put plants, from peonies to hydrangeas. It doesn't tend to grow over tree roots. So where it grows - I can dig and plant!
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 16, 2012
6:49 PM

Post #9307491

Before Aegopodium eradication and after: sweet relief. It never came back - not a single strand. My success prompted me to eliminate it in two other areas.

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ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 17, 2012
2:18 AM

Post #9307660

I had Bishops weed at the other house.I thought the variegated leaves were so pretty.It grew into a privet hedge and killed it with shade.

Same for Lemon Balm there and stupidly I planted Artemesia same thing right?,what a nuisance.I still find it 100 feet from where the mother plant was yanked 3 years ago.

I have Persecaria Red Shield but its happy on the back bank so it can go where it likes.

Ginger on the other hand is just awful and it likes to grow in the middle of echinaceas and sedums,antwhere that is impossible to weed it out.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 17, 2012
6:51 AM

Post #9307828

I have the NON-variegated Aegepodium -- if the variegated kind were a shop-lifter, the non-variegated is a murderer; if the variegated kind were a drizzle, the non-variegated kind is a hurricane. Etc. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

But I am actually persuaded to try Round-Up on it. I have tried for way to long to take care of it manually, sifting its long worm-like roots out of the soil.

This message was edited Oct 17, 2012 8:52 AM

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 17, 2012
7:17 AM

Post #9307851

I used Round up.It takes a few applications over time but it works.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 17, 2012
7:32 AM

Post #9307858

Found a way to get rid of maple seedlings that predecessors have allowed to become one inch or more in diameter. Cut as short as possible, remove the leaves, apply Roundup and put glue on top of the roundup. I have not had to do this more than twice to eliminate them.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 17, 2012
7:32 AM

Post #9307860

When I tried using the Round Up once a week the Aegopodium just laughed and continued to grow. I only resorted to every other day because I was so desperate to get rid of it.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 17, 2012
8:33 AM

Post #9307928

I didn't plant it, but I was truly disappointed to identify two very large shrubs planted by my predecessors as burning bushes. Not only do I find them uninteresting, but they are invasive. I hate plants that are drab as wallpaper until they color up in fall. Those things are all over the neighborhood. My eye is repelled by the overplanted. If I could, I'd pull them out and replace them with viburnums, instead of a plant that is just a big green blob until it berries in the fall and then the birds spread the seeds everywhere. The other thing they had, which I managed to eliminate, were three Crimson Pygmy barberries - also invasive.

Everyone seems to have the same few plants in this neighborhood: ditchlilies, burning bushes, hostas and barberries. And bearded iries they don't take care of (sorry, but I just don't care for them). And bridal veil spireas, which don't look good unless they are in their short series of bloom. So it galls me to have that stuff in my yard, some of them taking up precious sunlight in which I would plants viburnum triloum, carlesi, opulus or any plant with some kind of character and multiseason interest, like roses, grasses or smokebushes.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 17, 2012
8:44 AM

Post #9307940

Are the triloum, carlesi, opulus all Virburnums? Do you love them all?
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 17, 2012
8:56 AM

Post #9307951

Yes, yes, yes!

You get beautiful flowers in the spring, gorgeous fruit in the summer, brilliant color in the fall.

Here is viburnum carlesi. I wish I could send you the scent, which is intoxicating.

Completely hardy. Self cleaning - no deadheading!

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DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 17, 2012
9:03 AM

Post #9307961

Trilobum. Three seasons of color. Completely hardy. No care. This and the carlesi come in full size and compactum.

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DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 17, 2012
9:11 AM

Post #9307968

Viburnum opulus Spring Green.

There are many different kinds. Viburnums give a garden structure and color, and attract wildlife. I had several other kinds, all shapes and sizes. I've had robins, goldfinches, cardinals nesting in them. Mourning doves love to sit under them and coo. I miss them. WHAAAA!

I thought they were just boring shrubs until I was enlighted by my garden planner.

This message was edited Oct 17, 2012 3:13 PM

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happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 17, 2012
12:05 PM

Post #9308080

Garden planner? Tell more...
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 17, 2012
2:08 PM

Post #9308167

Oh!

When we were building out home in our new community in 1998 we were told that we could pay $200 for a landscape consultation. It took a lot of tooth pulling to understand what that meant, but it meant that:

A landscape architect would come on site and spend a few hours planning with us. She was all of about 25, new to Chicago, and new to the firm.

Nothing could be planted without our permission (their policy was to stick a shade tree in every yard - their choice).

Oh, and yes, the architect was with the firm of Peter Lindsay Schaut - not well known then, but they are the designer of Milllennium Plaza in Chicago and many other pricey projects.

I screamed yes and had conditions:

I wanted a garden based upon ornamental grasses, especuially miscanthus (the architech beamed - it's one of their specialities)

I wanted emphasis on horizontal plants, not vertical ones, except for the grasses, and I wanted multiple seasons of interest emphasizing fall.

I wanted crabapples.
I wanted lilacs.
I wanted a pagoda dogwood.
I wanted fall blooming anemones.
I wanted baptisia australis.
I wanted ferns.
I wanted a linden, but not a basswood.
I wanted a Moon Garden (thank you first issue of Garden Gate).

I did not want:
Hostas
Daylilies
Autumn Joy sedum
Barberries
Black eyed susans
Purple coneflowers
Any conventional or commonly used plant, or one that was entirely dependent upon the flower for beauty.

I've always been that way. I am turned off by the conventional and heavily used. If Knockouts had been in existence, they would have been added to the list.

This is what it looked like in September of 2006. Mind you, everything to the right of the grasses is on the easement, and everything there I put in later, but look at the basic structure. The grasses are actually about a foot from the property line, but I was given permission to go hog wild, which I did.

She added some viburnums. Sold on them, I bought more.

From her, I learned about basic structure - good bones. And notice the privacy. We could see out beautifully, but no one could see in. Important when the front, back and side of your house are viewable from the street.

This message was edited Oct 17, 2012 3:15 PM

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happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 17, 2012
2:13 PM

Post #9308170

Donna - that's gorgeous. You don't have a list of what is in that photo do you?
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 17, 2012
2:49 PM

Post #9308193

Yes.

Left to right, on the left hand side.

Way in the corner is an acer griseum, a paperbark maple, that we added later. We found it for $17.50 in Wisconsin. They were selling them for $35, and had no takers.

Pic 1 is a close up of the paperbark maple, the pagoda dogwood, and one of the five lilacs next to the house.
The very short grass in the front of the bed with the nasturiums is Prairie Dropseed (sporobolis heterolepsis) a really nice little grass with which to start the flow. It blooms extravagantly. The big grass in the 2006 picture is miscanthus sinensis Silberfeil (silver sword). It's not in commerce anymore, but that's ok, because there are better ones with a similar shape. The redder grass to the right of Silberfeil is Huron Sunrise. It is known for its extravagant bloom. One of the silberfeils died out and I replaced it with Huron.

Further down are more silberfeil, pennesetum (Chinese fountain grass) that you can't see, and the gently illuminated grass is Miscanthus sinensis Morning Light. I added 5. They are superior. You can see them better in this second picture, taken the same day as the first.

The lilacs on the easement are President Lincoln. I put them in. Blue, and completely mildew resistant! As you can see, I added more Chinese Fountain grass. The tree is a bailei linden I found in Wisconsin. The grass on the right - 8 of them, her suggestion, is the great miscanthus sinensis gracillimus. It is the grass in ancient Japanese paintings. The small shrub is a hydrangea Querquefolia Snowflake I got from Forest Farm.

Picture 3 is Morning Light in the fall. It doesn't bloom until October, and it took three years to bloom. Once I saw it in pictures, I had to have it.

She planned the front and both sides, but I ended up conservatively quadrupling what she did, and then adding rose and peonies, lots more shrubs and ornamental trees and, well, going nuts. I would find what I wanted in books, and then go find it. It often meant shopping out of state. I could get to my favorite Wisconsin nursery in less that an hour, and boy they loved the sight of me! They and Forest Farm. Nursery stock in Illinois is very expensive, and they all have the same incredibly boring plants.

But it was the help of this very gifted young lady, exhausted from her flight from Boston, who took what I thought was a crazy idea and helped me bring it to light. Her name was Chandra. I'll always be grateful.

Edited to say five lilacs next to the house, not maples!



This message was edited Oct 21, 2012 5:14 AM

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happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 17, 2012
3:46 PM

Post #9308229

Wow -- I always learn from you, Donna. I love the Prairie Dropseed (sporobolis heterolepsis) -- I had not heard of that. I did just buy some Miscanthus Morning Light a few weeks ago from the Santa Rosa sale -- I knew it was highly regarded, but didn't know just how lovely it is! I gotta tell you, when you write a post like this, I laboriously look up every single plant that I don't know about, and salivate!
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 18, 2012
5:55 AM

Post #9308688

You almost never see Prairie Dropseed anymore (the latin name is quite a mouthfull) because it isn't showy. It ewas her idea - it creates great flow at the base of the beds. I don't have many good pic of it (it's great in bloom), but look at the flow in early spring. I can't find a pic in bloom, but it is still there in fall.

I love it with Whirlybird mahogany nasturtiums (June and July).

We have very similar taste. There are so many wonderful plants out there that give your garden interest and spark your imagination. It is great fun to show them to you!

One last pic from the other side of my yard - the value of berries. A viburnum opulus and a crabapple.

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happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 18, 2012
6:38 AM

Post #9308723

I love all your photos, but (at the moment) most especially your Viburnum opulus. But it likes moist soil! I need shrubs to go in places that will withstand the typical summer drought here. I water a lot of my yard, but I don't want to expand the area that I have to water.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

October 18, 2012
7:35 AM

Post #9308781

I second Donna's opinion on V. carlesii. I always look forward to bloom time on that one and it really does perfume the backyard where I have it planted. My next-door neighbor planted one in her front yard so I get the fragrance benefit.
I sometimes wish I had the space for a couple of those big grasses but there wouldn't be room for anything else. I have a pie-shaped wooded lot on a cul-de-sac and only get decent sun in a small area towards the point.
happy - I'm with you on the WBG - only use BBG on poison ivy when it's too big for me to pull. I did try it on my nasty Campanula but the plants just laughed at me.
I used to think sweet woodruff was sweet as well but it needs a dedicated space since it doesn't play well with others. And it starts looking pretty ratty here by the end of summer, maybe because it's growing in clay instead of nice woodsy loam.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 18, 2012
9:48 AM

Post #9308896

Moist soil! Hah!

It's in clay soil in full sun and I can't remember ever watering it in ten plus years. It never stopped thriving and blooming - it has tripled in size. All of my viburnums were in spots in which they got the full blast of our 90 degree plus sun.

I have no idea what it would look like in moist soil. Would it quadruple?

If you are looking for a space filler, I have another one for you. Viburnum dentatum, and I strongly recommend the cultivar Chicago Lustre, so called because of the shininess of the leaves. This gets really big - I have two along the length of my garage and have to prune it heavily every year. But it is drought tolerant, produces a billion sparkling blue berries that the birds devour, after producing a MASS of flowers. This is a space filler and screen (12 feet tall) but it is a beautiful one.

The third pic is in November. I wish I could show you the berries.

And it plays very nicely with others. Why not use it instead of evergreens? No browning, no desiccation. (Oh, did I mention that I vetoed evergreens too?)

Note - get this cultivar. I understand that Blue Muffin is a disappointment in terms of bloom Chicago Lustre was developed by the Morton Arboretum here. Plants developed by arboretums are often superior. Plants developed by people who sell them have characteristics that are highly advertised, patented for profit, or not necessarily good. It isn't well known that Donald Ramsey Hydrangea is a clone of Endless Summer hydrangea sold for a fraction of the price because t isn't patented. Or that Endless Summer and similar reblooming hydrangeas simply popped up in the gardens of people who were discerning enough to understand that they were unusual, and patented what nature produced, not what hybridizers created!

This message was edited Oct 18, 2012 5:08 PM

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sempervirens
Northern, NJ
(Zone 6b)

October 19, 2012
5:57 AM

Post #9309576

DonnaMack,I saw your lovely Viburnum dentatum photos in the last post and I was wondering if I could ask about when, what and how you prune them.
I have a species V. dentatum that is a few years old and about 5'X5'. It is right next to a really pretty azalea "Marydel" .
I'd like to keep the Viburnum from encroaching on the azalea. There is room for it to grow to the left but of course the viburnum is heading right.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 19, 2012
6:22 AM

Post #9309594

You are going to love this answer.

You can prune them anytime. Whenever they encroach. I have pruned them when dormant. I have pruned them in bud. I have pruned them in bloom. And you need zero finesse. Just hack away to keep them in bounds.

Mind you, pruning stimulates growth, so you are going to stimulate growth. And you are going to have to prune them annually. They are vigorous. So don't worry if you don't like your work.

The nickname for his plant is arrowwood. And yes, that is what they were used for - arrows. Tough as nails. Very forgiving. Drought tolerant. Heat tolerant.

When they were put in I was told that they would completely cover the garage. I didn't believe it. Hey, the joke's on me.

I love the way they grow, and bloom, low to the ground. No bare legs unless you want them. They are therefore a great backdrop to other plants. These pictures were taken two years apart. Feverfew and nepeta "front" it beautifully. How many shrubs bloom to the ground?

Love it!

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sempervirens
Northern, NJ
(Zone 6b)

October 20, 2012
3:27 AM

Post #9310299

Thanks DonnaMack that information is very helpful.
Your use of shrubs and trees and large sweeps of grass is elegant.
I'd like to do the same on a smaller property with almost entirely native plants.
Since I started out with non natives it is an interesting process finding natives that will do the same job visually.
The grasses I use mostly are little bluestem, my favorite for fall color and smaller size, and switch grass.
The one flaw with switch grass is after many years there is a big bald area in the middle and then you have to divide and replant or plant something else in the middle.

Digging up a mature switch grass is no easy task but not much more labor intensive then removing a mature grouping of siberian iris.
Siberian iris is way too aggressive and hard to remove so that is one I'm sorry I planted.
Every time I think it's gone I find big chunks appearing anew. To think I bought a few varieties of them in the early years of my garden.
And daffodils, I remember planting 50 at a time and now I remove everyone I find to make room for other plants. They are everywhere and spreading also.
Both my own doing.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 20, 2012
4:16 AM

Post #9310311

Burning bush is big here too.We have 1 but neighbors have a row along their driveway.
Its a long wait for color.
We do have a crabapple thats white and blooms in November sometimes.Thats a treat.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 20, 2012
7:28 AM

Post #9310426

Big Bluestem is a lovely grass. Prairie dropseed is native, as is chasmanthium latifolium (northern sea oats - gorgeous but it seeds a lot).

I know that my garden is probably perceived as entirely non-native, but there are many lovely native plants that I incorporated into a landscape - cornus alternifolia being just one. I think that this native dogwood is the most beautiful of all. When I was establishing my garden I bought several books on native plants to find attractive additions. "Easy Care Native Plants" by Patricia Taylor was particularly helpful. She listed, and I utilized, oakleaf hydrangea, dwarf fothergilla, viburnum prunifolium, viburnum trilobum (aka American cranberry bush) allegheny serviceberry and bayberry. These were all very successful.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

October 20, 2012
1:22 PM

Post #9310698

I really always have enjoyed the grasses, lot of natives grow here.Blue oat grass I planted,green oat grass grows here and is delightful. I have a couple of the stem and reed grasses not sure of which as I didn't plant them only let them grow.
Some of the natives really are quite beautiful after a few years,it seems it takes longer for them to mature than most would ever give them a chance to do.It is often worth the wait.
I am going to try sneak a spicebush in the yard next spring, hopefully, anyway ,I will find it a place, I understand they can get rather large. I also here it is an easy native and SWT host plant.
Except for the old evergreens my gardens are pretty much going to rest for the winter,I will finish clean ups this week if the weather stays nice.

Stinging nettle as the thread title is about the only might be.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 21, 2012
5:23 AM

Post #9311060

Semper (thank you for the lovely compliment) I am experiencing the same thing with daffodils. Sometimes the disadvantage of using heirloom daffs is that they prove to you very quickly WHY they are 100 years old by throwing wild parties all over your property and multiplying like mad. At my old house a handful of Mt. Hoods had propagating so intensely that the offsets rose to the surface. I didn't want the new owners to have to deal with it, so I started pulling up the surfacy ones. Then I didn't know what to do with them. So I now have them at the base of my raspberry plants.

I have seen the problem with siberian iris, and I never put it in. There are a lot of bearded iris around me and they had a very bad year.

A thought with your switch grass. A lot of grasses die out in the middle because they lack light and nutrition. I had so many (at least 55 - I lost count) that this was a concern, and it was happening with a few of them. Then I was advised that, after cutting them back in spring, to put a bit of a 10-10-10 fertilizer on them in April. I found that it rejuvenated the inner clumps. As a result, after 15 years I never had to dig up and divide a grass, and that in fact the empty sections regrew. Perhaps it is worth a try?

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 21, 2012
5:26 AM

Post #9311062

Still lamium for me.Just dug out 3 basketball sized clumps. I doubt I can do that again. Looks like an early spring Weed B Gone for me.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 21, 2012
6:07 AM

Post #9311094

ge - try the Weed B Gon around noon some sunny day. The loss of the lamiums will brighten your winter outlook.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 21, 2012
7:19 AM

Post #9311149

Are you saying it doesnt have the temperature sensetivity that Round-up does?
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

October 21, 2012
8:03 AM

Post #9311181

What temperature sensitivity does Round-Up have?
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 21, 2012
8:44 AM

Post #9311205

In general weed killers work between 65 and 85. They work more slowly at 60. Right now it's 57 here but I'm going to apply the CONCENTRATED Weed B Gon and I can let you know in a few days if it worked.

You'd have to Google "Round Up temperature sensitivity" to find out the exact temperatures for Round Up.
pepper23
KC Metro area, MO
(Zone 6a)

October 21, 2012
4:56 PM

Post #9311582

With switchgrass, you can cut it back then burn it in the fall or spring. That will help keep it full and lush. Switchgrass is a native prairie plant and the prairies depend on fire to help nourish it. I burned mine every other year and it loved it.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 21, 2012
5:51 PM

Post #9311624

Pepper23,

You are right, of course, about the burning. Cutting it back is just a way to try to duplicate that process in the places that are like the one in which I live. If I tried to burn my grasses I would be arrested. You have to pay lots of money, go through training, and organize a group of at least three people to perform a "controlled burn". Probably has to do with population density.

And it sounds a lot easier than getting out the hedge trimmer!
pepper23
KC Metro area, MO
(Zone 6a)

October 21, 2012
6:28 PM

Post #9311644

Stick one of those chimeas (sp?) real close to fool your neighbors. lol. Actually, I cut mine back, got rid of the cut grass, then burned the little bit left there. But being in town I can understand about having to be careful about that.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 23, 2012
5:20 PM

Post #9313486

Update regarding my evil Houttuynia cordata 'Chameleon' and the Weed B Gon CONCENTRATE I used on Sunday:

1. Just a sprig of the evil weed after I gave it one spray.

2. Same sprig today. Quite limp, brown.

3. There were other longer pieces so I ended up putting them in a grocery store bags (check that there are NO holes) and still protected the surrounding plants with plastic.

4. Those same sprigs, in the bag with the Weed B Gon CONCENTRATE, this morning - they're dead.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

October 23, 2012
8:58 PM

Post #9313681

Hallelujah! Good for you! May they stay that way! I know what a struggle it's been. My bÍte noir, the evil Apios Americana vine, still pops up here and there, even where I thought I'd sterilized the soil. But you give me hope...

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 24, 2012
2:29 AM

Post #9313745

I sprayed WBG on a few big weeds that were not near perens. I dont see any dead lamium but the plantain ( pigweed) is a gonner.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 24, 2012
6:08 AM

Post #9313833

Thanks, Pam. There is one strand of it that has no leaves so tomorrow I'll cut it back to a length that can still fit in the bag and try and get the tip drenched with the WBG. I have no idea if it can work without having a leaf. I'll have to Google Aplos Americana since I'm not familiar with the name.

Jo Ann - glad to hear it worked on one of your pests. It's always worth a try, even if the temperature isn't ideal, because it's so good to see them eliminated. Those very tiny lamium seedlings are all over. I should teach the dog to eat them.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

October 25, 2012
12:42 PM

Post #9315204

Apios Americana is an edible tuber that grows a vine with mauve flowers at the end of the season. The property dates back to early 1700's, someone must have grown it at some time either for food or ornament, and it got loose. The tubers grow in long rows along a thread of root and go very deep. If you miss a shred of root it comes right back. I have it coming up in the middle of Siberian Iris and Daylilies (sometimes tubers are actually imbedded in the root mass just under the crown!), so you can just imagine how hard it is to get rid of. When I posted about it a year or two ago, people wrote to me asking for it, and I sent off a plant or two. Now I'd really rather just wipe it out as soon as I see it.
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 25, 2012
5:25 PM

Post #9315429

That sounds like a royal pain to eliminate.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

October 25, 2012
5:37 PM

Post #9315447

Sounds like Houdini has had you hornswoggled as well... But not forever, we shall persevere, and win in the end!

My first serious garden was overrun with PI, wisteria gone wrong, and bittersweet. Over the 14 years I was there I did get it all under control. I remember weekly patrols, Roundup and Felco pruners in hand, snipping and zapping the smallest emerging shoot and/or leaf until there were none.

Then I moved down to the next on my list of don't wants... Of course, there's always something...
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 26, 2012
3:21 PM

Post #9316320

I have won the Houttuynia wars and tonight, having an hour to spare (and daylight and nice weather) I attacked the field of Lamium and it is gone! It is also on my neighbor's side but he was too close for me to leap over and get them from his plot so I'll attack when he's not around.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

October 26, 2012
4:04 PM

Post #9316353

Love it...plant murderer by night...

Where I am now, we don't have that problem, but back in the old days I had a pretty good reach through the split rail fence when I needed it!
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 26, 2012
5:12 PM

Post #9316403

We also have that type of fencing but he was barely 10' away. Have no fear, I'll get the Lamium.

When I was in the midst of killing the Houttuynia his wife protested and told me to leave it on their side because she liked it. Gee whiz, I wonder how it died. I was not about to leave it only to have it turn around and come back to haunt me.
back40bean
Decatur, GA
(Zone 7b)

October 26, 2012
7:40 PM

Post #9316531

Way to go Pirl. Fortunately for me, my neighbors on both sides pay little enough attention to their 'landscapes' that I am able to 'tend' an area beyond my property line almost all the way around. This extends to removing some shrubs and planting others. I figure I'm helping us all to a more beautiful view. I need to jump a fence soon to get after some Creeping Charlie.
DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 27, 2012
5:07 AM

Post #9316725

I routinely invade my neighbors' properties over the property line to get rid of ditch lilies, lily of the valley, maple seedlings and any other plant that encroaches on my property. Sometimes it's just a well place shot of Roundup. Sometimes it's a shovel. I have neighbors who also use the fringes of their properties to dump weeds and wood. Unfortunately I can see the fringes, so I just grow large shrubs to hide them.

I have a neighbor who is meticulous about his own property but allows walnuts and walnut leaves to fall on my driveway. He also lets weeds grow next to my plants (hi there, this Round-up is for you). After a lot of time cleaning up, I started tossing the walnuts back onto his property, and yesterday swept up his walnut maple leaves and pushed them back onto his property instead of disposing of them. Last year there was a six inch mat of his dead leaves at the end of winter. Not his year - and next year, I am going to have an arborist take out the overhanging walnut limbs, maple limbs and oak limbs from neighboring yards that rain on mine (I must have 1,000 acorns).
pirl
(Arlene) Southold, NY
(Zone 7a)

October 27, 2012
6:20 AM

Post #9316765

Be careful of removing overhanging limbs. You don't want legal troubles.

ge1836

ge1836
Pittsford, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 27, 2012
6:48 AM

Post #9316793

This is the neighboe who claimes to be a gardener,thats him.She admits to not knowing one plant from another.Their property line is at the edge of the leaves in our driveway.
I get raspbery bushes volunteering plus the weed and vole condos in the raised Black Raspberry bed along the same border but 20 feet away.
DD has helped herself to the Blacks and says they are awful.

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DonnaMack
Elgin, IL
(Zone 5a)

October 27, 2012
12:46 PM

Post #9317128

Happily, in this state you can remove overhanging limbs that are over your property line. It's a shame, ge, you can't do much about your idiot neighbor.

I did go out and sweep the last set of walnut leaves and nut back onto my neighbor's property. He removes them from his own property elsewhere so I thought I'd add to his pile. Otherwise they end up being six inches deep on my driveway.

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