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Tomatoes: Getting Brave, ordering heirloom seed.

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newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 17, 2012
11:41 AM

Post #9244702

Well after Carolyn pointed out another forum in an information link, I have been looking around and found a link to E-bay tomato seed seller BlueRibbonTomatoes. Got really brave and ordered seeds which I of course will be growing next spring. Bought one called PURPLE DOG CREEK KENTUCKY HEIRLOOM. Loved the description on that one.

I SWORE I would never try another Brandywine again as every strain I have ever tried sets (almost) no fruit and I really mean that. I don't mean not much fruit, I mean no fruit. But I must be crazy as I just ordered COWLICK BRANDYINE seeds.
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 17, 2012
6:57 PM

Post #9245135

Hi nyrita, we've communicated thru another forum. You know me as sharonie. I just posted a thread there about next year so I'm glad to see I'm not the only one thinking that far ahead! Im going to check it out. How about Brandywine sudduth? I'm not that familar with all the types.. Check out Gold Medal.
Sharon

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 17, 2012
7:19 PM

Post #9245167

I use the same name, Newyorkrita everywhere as I think it saves on confusion. But I did just go look over at that other forum and saw yours posts. Had to add my two cents LOL!
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 18, 2012
7:31 AM

Post #9245528

Hi Rita I wanted to keep the same name but for some reason or another, I couldn't and that is frustrating because I can't remember who I am on what forum! I have to go back and check to see if I can change it. Add your two cents any time!
Sharon
cathy166
Stamford, CT
(Zone 6b)

August 18, 2012
1:58 PM

Post #9245848

Rita, I have had the toughest luck with potato leaf tomatoes. This year's Brandywines have been more productive although the deer have been dinner guests. Last year's Brandywines (we did 2 different varieties) did poorly, but I did not grow them from seed, and I'm not sure it wasn't from the grower.

This year all our plants have done well, and the vines are loaded despite the deer. Most are heirlooms, and we planted them in China, or so it seemed—they were about 10 inches deep.

It bugs me to take care of a plant to get only one tomato as was the case with German Queens. I no longer get black or purple tomatoes because I can't tell when they're ripe. We already lost a tomato (except for the seeds) as it split from the rain and was hard to see. I have had good luck heirlooms from Renee's Garden.

Marcia

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 18, 2012
2:22 PM

Post #9245868

I have had GERMAN QUEEN many years and it does well for me. Don't know why I did not get it this year but I don't remember seeing any plants. Probably didn't look hard enough.

I have tried potato leaf Brandwines and a regular leaf Brandywine, it made no difference for me. Both did horribly. I don't see how just being potato leaf is what does it one way or another.

Anyway I plan to grow more potato leaf types next year as I want to get seed for some of the New Dwarf Varieties. Many of those are potato leaf.
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 18, 2012
6:25 PM

Post #9246025

I'm still trying to understand the pl, RL thing. What dwarf varieties are you looking at?

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 18, 2012
7:30 PM

Post #9246100

I am planning to buy my seed from Heritage Tomato Seeds when they are on line in October. I want to get DWARF MR SNOW (PL), SUMMERTIME GOLD (PL), ROSELLA PURPLE and TASMANIAN CHOCOLATE.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

August 18, 2012
8:04 PM

Post #9246125

I have tried potato leaf Brandwines and a regular leaf Brandywine, it made no difference for me. Both did horribly. I don't see how just being potato leaf is what does it one way or another.

*******

Rita, the leaf form helps define a variety, that's what is does.

Brandywine is PL
Red Brandywine is not related to the above at all, quite different, and is RL
Yellow Brandywine is not related to either of the above and is PL

Linda at TGS lists two red brandywines , one PL and one RL, and neither one is true Red Brandywine and she knows it b'c she went out at got what she called Red Brandywine ( Landis strain), which is a true RB that she got from the Landis Museum in PA but the problem is there are no strains of RB.

The faux RB's she lists were from a wholesale place in CA and she continues to list them b'c she says that many folks like them.

So in terms of Brandywine, the large pink fruited one, there are no true RL ones, just the correct PL one.

Different subject now.

You said above that many of the dwarfs have PL foliage, but not exactly right. Dwarfs are defined by having what's called rugose foliage which is discussed by Craig in the article about the Dwarf Project from Tville, although I didn't click on it to be sure, and while there are a few that really are both rugose and PL that are being worked on I don't think any of them are near being released.

So when you listed the ones you're going to buy and put PL after them, they aren't PL, rather they're rugose which is not the same as PL.

Rita, you also post at GW, so when you go there next time you might want to consider going to the FAQ's and looking at the article on leaf forms, with pictures, which I think might help.

The only one that you listed above that I've grown is Summertime Gold, which is rugose, and others I've grown are Wild Fred, Summertime Green, Sweet Sue and two more out in the backyard now, Iditirod Red and Jade Beauty, all RL and rugose.

Lastly, I prefer growing PL varieties b/c in my experience they are more tolerant of the common foliage diseases, but not everyone has had the same experience. But I won't grow a PL variant of an original RL, with few exceptions, b'c more than the leaf gene can be involved in that change meaning that the PL variant is NOT the same as the original RL except for leaf form.

Actually I'll grow anything with any leaf form, be it RL, PL or Angora or variegated as long as the taste turns out to be excellent b'c that's what I grow tomatoes for is taste, although I admit that when I first started growing heirloom tomatoes back in the early 80's that I did grow some novelty varieties just b'c I was curious.

Hope that helps/

Carolyn

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 18, 2012
8:24 PM

Post #9246149

Carolyn, I just copied the leaf form from Heritage. It shows Rugose then PL for those two yellows. Then it shows Rugose then RL for those two others. I am only going by their descriptions. The leaf form doesn't really make any difference to me and was not a factor in my selections.

As to Brandywines. I just tried (and in different years) whatever I could find with Brandywine in the name. Don't even remember what they all were now. Doesn't much matter to me as they were all dissapointments.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

August 19, 2012
1:32 AM

Post #9246234

Right you are on both Summertime Gold and Mr. Snow being Rugose PL. I checked them at Tania's website b'c all the histories are there as well as many pictures for all the released ones and Tania sells seeds for all the released ones as well.

And after this season I'm pretty sure that in addition to Steve at Heritage Seeds that Adam Gleckler will also be offering all released ones as well for 2013. I'ts really a very exciting development, especially for those who need to grow in containers due to lack of inground space.

I'm not an active participant of the Dwarf Project in terms of working with different lines that are works in progress, however, Craig being my best tomato friend for about 23 years, has sent to me the ones I mentioned above to trial them for him.

(As to Brandywines. I just tried (and in different years) whatever I could find with Brandywine in the name. Don't even remember what they all were now. Doesn't much matter to me as they were all dissapointments.)

And there are some with brandywine in the name that aren't even brandywines so as long you don't remember what you grew and what you grew you didn't work out for you, I don't think it would help if I mentioned some specific ones.

Carolyn


paulgrow

paulgrow
Allen Park, MI
(Zone 6a)

August 19, 2012
6:30 AM

Post #9246339

Carolyn

I look forward to all of your posts, you are a wealth of information. Thank you for sharing it. I've learned so much about tomatoes especially heirlooms.

Paul

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2012
9:31 AM

Post #9246517

Carolyn, it does always amaze me that you just know all this stuff. So much information and you are always willing to share and to help people. THANK YOU!

As to my past Brandwines, it no longer matters. I really thought I would never try anyother Brandwine type until I saw those Cowlick Brandywine seeds. I just thought why not? The description made me think that even I, that could not get tomatoes out of Brandywines before, might be sucessful with a nice harvest of tomatoes.

I guess I might put some of the Dwarfs in containers but I was really planning on growing them in ground. I have two tomatoes in containers this year (Patio and Better Bush). Not pleased with either, bland tasting. But they are in half whiskey barrels which from reading the forums I see is not really big enough. Still as far as that goes they seem to be doing well as they have been pumping out lots of tasteless tomatoes. Neither is going to be planted next year. And with growing the dwarfs next year in ground, I figgure I might not even need the containers for tomatoes at all. I could do better just planting some spring greens and onions in there. Might just do that.
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 19, 2012
1:39 PM

Post #9246766

It's true, Carolyn is a wealth of information and knowledge. I am learning from just reading the threads! In terms of seeds, looks like Tania will be the one to get them from, especially because she's in Canada. If only she had your book, Carolyn!!!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2012
2:28 PM

Post #9246824

Sharon, are you planning on getting any of The New Dwarf varieties?
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

August 19, 2012
3:41 PM

Post #9246885

Sharon, Tania does have my book and we are very good friends and communicate outside of any message sites as well by both e-mail and phone. ( smile)

But it just occured to me that you might mean sell my book, and no, she doesn't sell any books at all, just on the Home Page refers to some other books and websites that she finds useful.

Carolyn


This message was edited Aug 19, 2012 3:44 PM
kygreg2000
Hopkinsville, KY

August 19, 2012
9:56 PM

Post #9247160

newyorkrita,

I have tried several strains of Brandywine; Sudduth and Glick are good. My favorite of the ones I have tried is Brandywine Liams which is an RL and I think I have read may not even be a strain of Brandywine. Am growing Brandywine From Croatia this year. It is a good one also. Again an RL and may not be an actual strain of Brandywine.
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 20, 2012
6:45 AM

Post #9247402

Hi Rita and all - I am not sure about the dwarfs. I 'm thinking about it. Carolyn, what do you think? I am going to try Heirloom Seeds to have them ship it to a new york address so I can peruse it over the winter and think about how much work I'm going to make for myself!!!! ha ha
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

August 20, 2012
7:04 AM

Post #9247426

First, to answer you Sharon, I can't tell you if you want to grow some of the new Dwarf varieties, or not, but I certainly wouldn't wait to get my book before you start making decisions. Yes, I think too many message sites and looking at too many seed sites can be detrimental to a person when they're first really starting out with growing heirloom varieties. I really do suggest growing some standards first, and I listed them for you at Tomatoville as you requested, my idea of so called standards. I also think that everyone needs a basis on which to compare new varieties that they grow and that doesn't really happen until a person has grown a couple of hundred of varieties of all fruit colors and shapes and plant habits. There's a great thread at Tville somewhere about why some folks always want to grow the newest, latest varieties and the reasons just amuse me to no end.Just me own wee opinion here. LOL

And now to answer a question posed above:


Correct, Liam's Brandywine is NOT a brandywine at all and it's too bad that Larry named it as such.

After Brandywine crossed with Tad in Craig L's garden his friend Larry offered, or Craig asked him , to help with growouts from the saved F2 seeds from the initial crossed hybrid.

He selected one that was all pink and called it Liam's Brandywine, but it's not, as you can see from where it came from.

It was this initial cross that led to Lucky Cross, Little Lucky, the two gold/red bicolors and many other varieties.

No, seeds of Tad are not avaialable. Craig and I had a good friend, Tad Smith, who has a Ph.D in plant breeding and Tad ended up at a place near Philly. He bred several great F1 varieties and sent them only to Craig and myself. And then he did a three way cross and explained what he wanted. Craig didn't have room to do the growouts, I did, and Tad had said there was a 1/64 chance of my finding it. At first I put out 12 plants and actually found it. And of course named it Tad and sent seeds to both Tad and Craig and kept some for myself.

The best brandywine story I know is Brandywine ( Pawers). That was the result of a typo. LOL It was listed by Roger Wentling of PA whose SSE code name would then be PA WE R.

Got it? LOL

Carolyn, who still has to switch broswers to post from time to time which is why she often doesn't answer ASAP, but heck it's just tomatoes, not a tomato with broken branches, aka a broken leg. LOL I get to things when I can and want to and have the time to do so, that's just the way it is.

paulgrow

paulgrow
Allen Park, MI
(Zone 6a)

August 20, 2012
7:39 AM

Post #9247477

Sharon
I know that Nancy Ruhl is a big fan of the dwarfs.

Paul

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 20, 2012
9:41 AM

Post #9247636

I am going to stick to the Cowlick Brandywine as far as Brandwine types for me. I figgure that is enough for a person that has not had Brandywine sucesses before. Honestly, I am surprised I even got those Cowlicks but they sounded so good. I figgured, Why not.?

As for me, I personally am very interested in the dwarf varieties. I plan to get seeds of those four varieties I mentioned. If that project goes well then I would probably get even more varieties the year after. And I bet they have more varieties out for the general public released by then.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 25, 2012
11:47 AM

Post #9253316

My seeds came today from BlueRibbonTomatoes. So hopefully I will be growing these two varieties next year. :-))
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 25, 2012
6:37 PM

Post #9253747

Rita, I have ordered so many seeds it's crazy. Too bad we don't live near each other! We could help each other out! Most of my seeds are from Tatiana' s Tomatobase and from Tomato bob. Ahhhhh!!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 25, 2012
6:56 PM

Post #9253761

I haven't ordered that many seeds yet but will be ordering more. And I do like that the seller puts around 25 seeds so there are extras but I only intend to start a few. Maybe 6 or less? I mean of each type. That in case they don't all come up.
hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 26, 2012
6:05 AM

Post #9254089

There's no way I could think about doing them all. I'll probably pick a few and like you said, try six of each and hope for the best. Still thinking about that new garden bed!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

August 26, 2012
8:56 AM

Post #9254248

Well, if you want to be planting next year then putting in the garden beds this year is the perfect solution.

If I had room I would do more beds but I really am out of room.

I keep telling myself that I don't need to plant that many tomatoes but that never works. I always want to plant more tomatoes.

paulgrow

paulgrow
Allen Park, MI
(Zone 6a)

August 26, 2012
9:50 AM

Post #9254330

We need to set up an heirloom tomato seed trade on here.

Paul

hugobee
Montreal, QC
(Zone 5b)

August 26, 2012
1:59 PM

Post #9254528

I'm sure there must be a link on this site for that. I know other forums have them. But it definitely is something to look into!
Sharon

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

August 29, 2012
3:39 PM

Post #9258592

>> We need to set up an heirloom tomato seed trade on here.

It is getting toward the time of year when Heather (hmacdona) usually conducts a tomato and pepper seed swap drawing on multiple online gardening sites. In DG I usually see her thread in the Seed Trading forum sometime in the fall.

I send in 40 packets of commercial seeds each year, and get back a GREAT variety or varieties. The first year I asked for early and cold-tolerant varieties, and got an education along with the seeds.

You could ask for heirloom-only varieties back, and make specific requests. So many people send seeds that she can often satisfy specific requests.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

August 30, 2012
3:54 PM

Post #9259681

Corey ~ Shall I save some 'Cold Set' seeds for you? Even though I put them all out quite late, they are doing well in the heat...well, not when it was 90° to 100°, but now, in the 80's...

Evelyn

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

August 30, 2012
7:08 PM

Post #9259912

Evelyn,

You've already sent me more seeds than I've had time to put away, let alone grow! And I haver a big jar alreadyu of cold-and-early varieties to try when I have room and time.

So I would say "no thank you", but I added that cultivar name to my list of "some day seeds".

I might have to retire AND find someone else's yard I can encroach upon.

meadowyck

meadowyck
Brooksville, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 11, 2012
11:49 AM

Post #9272063

I would most certainly be in for an heirloom seed trade, should anyone find a threat or start a threat for one.

Jan

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6b)

September 12, 2012
6:57 PM

Post #9273501

most likely someone will just start trading heirloom seeds and it will go from there.If I had as many as I hoped I would try it myself but I don't .So I guess I get to wait for one of you to start one with Heirloom seed on the seed trading forum or here for the tomatoes

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
10:38 AM

Post #9299640

I had to wait until October to order my tomato seeds from Heritage as there was a note all summer that seeds would be available un October. So today I did my order. Would have loved to order so many varieties but don't have endless room. So ordered AMAZON CHOCOLATE and 5 of The New Dwarf varieties. I had plannted to order four as I had scoped them out during the summer. But they had new varieties listed so I just couldn't resist getting five total instead of my original four total. Of the dwarfs I got DWARF MR SNOW, PERTH PRIDE, ROSELLA PURPLE, SUMMERTUME GOLD and TASMANIAN CHOCOLATE.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
2:50 PM

Post #9299835

It ain't with thread only here's the last of this years tomatoes from the garden 2012






Only they are heirloom varieties!!lol

Thumbnail by juhur7   Thumbnail by juhur7         
Click an image for an enlarged view.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
2:53 PM

Post #9299842

They look good to me. I am still picking tomatoes, only mine that I pick now are not heirlooms.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
3:35 PM

Post #9299894

They are!! and after you had been making me hungry and curious all season long I just thought I would!lol:-)

If you are really in the same zone as me, I think I am still one colder , your frosts for outdoors are not to far away either. so enjoy while you can, only I suppose your going to tell me now that you grow yours indoors also. I think you already told us that earlier, Or is that only your spring little friends .
A couple of these are back for next year, and of course I will try a few new heirlooms,( new to me anyway)Haven't got that far; yet!

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
3:40 PM

Post #9299905

I don't grow hardly anything indoors. I do start a few seeds come spring inside as they come up much better and then I can transplant. But thats it except I have tomato seeds to start next spring so will have to deal with that. The outside tomatoes are not going to be lasting much longer.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
5:01 PM

Post #9299984

newyorkrita A question,have you ever grown any of the chocolate variety of tomatoes and are they any sweeter to the taste? I have one to try for next year,and while I am not confident of success I am hopeful .

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
5:13 PM

Post #9299995

No, I never have. I did get seeds of AMAZON CHOCOLATE as I read good things about it. So I will try growing that next year. But have never actually eatten any of them.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
5:24 PM

Post #9300002

Should be interesting, next years interest is already brewing,I am going to try a few cucumbers that do not require pollinating also,I am sure it was you who perked my interest in those?.It all goes good together in the kitchen garden. :-)

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

October 8, 2012
7:38 PM

Post #9300136

I was not happy with the China Long Cucumbers I tried this year so will be looking into something else instead. I already ordered Carmella so plan to grow that along with others next year.
HopeSue
Laingsburg, MI

October 11, 2012
4:36 PM

Post #9302645

I settled on experimenting with heirloom seeds this year and ordered German Giant, Todd County Amish, Martino's Roma, and a red Brandywine from Tomato Growers. The only variety that produced like it was going out of style was the Roma. The German Giant and Amish varieties produced one to one-and-one-half pound maters but did not produce abundantly.

I had several yards of black soil dumped in my garden before planting season and decided not to add organic fertilizer, which I now regret.

I am wondering whether the soil is either deficient in something or whether it was the variety.

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

October 11, 2012
4:44 PM

Post #9302648

I never got good production out of various heirlooms I have tried in the past. But I am hoping that next years new to me tryouts will be much better.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

October 11, 2012
6:58 PM

Post #9302754

HopeSue, I have many tomato friends in MI and all they grow are the heirloom ones and depending on the season they have wonderful luck, So stay with it and try to find out what the problem is that prevents you from getting good results.

Which Red Brandywine did you order from TGS and I ask b'c there's only one that Linda offers that's true RB, the other two are not.

Todd County Amish and Amish Potato Leaf are two varieties that I introduced, seeds for my good friend Doug in MN.

And Martino's Roma is a darn good paste variety along with Heidi and a few others I've mentioned here.

And look for Tadesse soon b'c there's been a project of four folks at Tville to find the original one since while some places offer it it's not correct for the variety. It was a former student of mine, Tadesse Wuhib, who brought the varieties back from Ethiopia when he went back to visit relatives. I sent the four folks seeds for both Tadesse and Wuhib from 1994 this past Spring, all got them up and Neil in Canada just emed me and said he was sending 752 seeds, which got me laughing.

Both Tadesse and Wuhib are excellent paste varieties, from Addas Ababa and Heidi is also a former student of mine and she brought back the seeds for Heidi, her name is Neidi Iyok, when returned from Xmas vacation one year from Cameroon.

When I was teaching I was ruthless in seeking out tomato varieties from both faculty and students and many of them have stood the test of time and are still popular.

So good luck with those varieties for next year.

Carolyn
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

October 11, 2012
7:03 PM

Post #9302760

Rita, I also hope that you have better luck next year with your newer OP varieties, b/c as with HopeSue I have several friends on LI who grow nothing but OP, mainyl heirloom varieties.

Also on LI is located Ken Ettlinger who manages the LI Seed Project and has for many years and he and his staff grow no hybrids. No, it isn't a place to buy seeds.

Carolyn

newyorkrita

newyorkrita
North Shore of L. I., NY
(Zone 6b)

October 11, 2012
7:19 PM

Post #9302773

I feel that it is a matter of my growing the wrong varieties in the past, heirloom or not. These are soooooo many varieties of Heirlooms and I just basicly picked some availably locally without any research. This time around I have done much more research. I have seed for heirlooms and also OP varieties that are no heirloom but I think will give me what I am looking for. We will see next season.

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