Jade Green Bean Crop Failure

Helena, MT

I purchased half a pound of Jade Green Bean seed from a reputable seed company this spring and after five attempts to grow these beans only two percent of the crop came up. All my other beans have been doing well and I planted these seeds in several different locations and still they did not germinate. I also ordered a packet of lipstick peppers from the same company and got a completely different pepper. I have ordered hundreds of dollars worth of seed from this company and I'm completely baffled. I have never had anything like this happen before. What would you do???

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

Call the company and let them know. I have a problem every now and then and usually when I call the company they replace the seeds and sometimes let me know that others have also had the same problem. The only one who didn't fix anything was Johnny's, so I quit buying from them.

Grand Saline, TX(Zone 7b)

I agree, let them know. Problems arise in every company, but they can't do anything about it if they don't know. Hopefully they will resolve the matter.

Sorry, you're having problems with the Jade seed. It's on my 'to order' list for next year and I planned on ordering it from Johnny's.lol
May need to rethink that, are these from Johnny's?


Grand Saline, TX(Zone 7b)

Another thought, are you having any troubles with beans or peas from the same company? Could it be that they need an inoculant?

Helena, MT

Ah well, I didn't come to vent here, but it was Johhny's and yes, I had several other problems with this last order, but I couldn't blame it entirely on the seed. Peas and corn both had to be replanted this spring and that seed also came from Johnny's. Weather may have been a factor at first , but even later than usual plantings were pretty sparse.

Yes cocoa I did use an innoculant on both peas, and the Jade beans in may last plantings more than a week ago and so far nothing has come up in over 120 seeds planted. I tired soaking the beans this last round and none of the beans had sprouts which I thought was pretty unusual as well.

I have ordered Jade beans in the past in single packets from another source and thought I would try the bulk packet from the only source I could find. So I added it to my Johnny's order. Won't be doing that again I can assure you.

I really liked the Jade beans from the year before. I had planted several other bush beans that year as well and they were my favorite. Blue Lake came in second and Provider third. Too bad I put all my eggs in one basket this year. Big big mistake.

I have heard similar complaints about Johnny's Seeds, but frankly this is the first time I have had any problems. I don't think I will waste my time talking to them. I go my the saying first time shame on me. I think the smart thing to do is spread the wealth. I like Seed Savers and Seeds of Change about as well but I can't get some the seeds I like. Maybe it's time to do a little shifting. My corn seed has always been a super sweet which requires isolation .so I have purchased the half pound packages and share the seed with my neighbor. He too had to replant this year and we both had a reduced crop by about 50% inspite of four plantings on my part. My first planting is just about ready to pick, but the next three might not make the frost date here unless it stays warmer longer than usual. Sometimes we just get lucky and the killing frosts hold off until early October, but may come as early as late August. .

Madison, AL(Zone 7b)

I think for most of us it's best to stick with a regional company if you can. I've had the best luck with Park and Southern Exposure. I know a lot of people don't like Park for some reason, but I consistently get good germination, strong plants and true-to-type seeds from them. But they are in the same climate that I am. I've only ever had one issue; my Brandywine seeds this year... well, whatever they were they were not Brandywine. I hope this is not a sign of things to come post-bankruptcy sale.

That said, despite being up north Johnny's is the only supplier I've never received problem seeds from, but it is bound to happen eventually with any company. I don't order a whole lot from them since I mostly stick with open pollinated and organic when I can, and they don't have much of that. They are the only ones with my turnips, though!

There are some companies that I simply won't seeds buy from again, so I understand the need to cross companies off your list.

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

I've had things wrong from Johnny's, but it was always resolved
I buy lots of seed from http://www.jordanseeds.com/
They have bulk quantities, but lots of times that is cheaper than small amounts from other companies.
They charge a $3 handling fee if you order under $50. Charge actual shipping charge, not a flat fee like others.
I am only 100 miles from them, so I call before noon & it comes by Speedy the next morning.
It might take longer if you are farther away, but they ship same day.
I think Calalily buys from them. She is in southern Texas.
Jade beans from Jordan's are 2000 seeds $6.16 + the shipping.

Picture; Jade green & Eureka wax beans.
Carrots are Sugarsnax from Johnny's. Beets are Ace from Jordan's.

Thumbnail by CountryGardens
Helena, MT

I too have come to the conclusion Nicole, and that is to first purchase seeds or plants locally next season before going to the catalogs. We have only a one decent source here for seeds and plants; however they are somewhat limited on things I like to grow.
My 7,000 square feet of garden space doesnít hold a candle to Bernieís but I have bought bulk seed such as corn and green beans, saving any excess seed for up to a couple of years. I have been receiving a Jordanís catalog based on previous advice you have given Bernie, but havenít ordered from them as yet. If you donít mind my asking Bernie, what corn seed do your purchase and do you purchase it from Jordanís as well?
Yesterday the wife took some red potatoes, summer squash, and cucumbers to her sisterís annual garage sale and she just handed me a $20 bill, half the proceeds from hardly a bushel of produce. I just shook my head. The wife even invited one of the ladies who wanted more to come by and pick up some more produce for her party next week. Since my garden is right off a highway and across the road from an operation called Farm in the Dell, thatís all we have to tell people. Everyone seems to know the location. My wife has talked about doing the Farmers Market in town but she canít do it alone and Iím unable to devote the time, so we elected not to.
I have discussed farmerís marketing with you on more than one occasion Bernie and would have liked to try it if we were physically capable, but it just isnít going to happen. The alternative is to put out a sign at the back of the garden which says ďGreen Beans For SaleĒ, or something to that effect and I may do just that after what happened at the garage sale yesterday. Thanks for the tip on Jordanís and the Jade beans Bernie. I just may give that a shot next year. The only thing Iím pondering is whether to allow people to pick their own if they like. I know that sounds a bit risky, but Iím always here to assist or supervise so I may give it a try. Anyway Iím headed to the garage to dig out my Jordanís catalog from this spring and give it some thought.

morgan

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

I've had great luck with High Mowing Organic seeds, Seeds of Change, Peaceful Valley, Abundant Life, Willhite Seeds and also Jordan Seeds (haven't bought from them in a couple of years though) Territorial used to be really good, but this last year I wasn't as pleased with their seeds, plus their prices have really gone up (higher than other companies). I haven't bought from Parks since I had a garden center and their germination was horrible. The last purchase from them was at least 8 years ago, maybe they've improved.

Southern NJ, United States(Zone 7a)

Calalily, which pole beans are resistant to viruses? I asked on another thread after getting misshapen and hollow Fortex beans this year. I can't tell from the catalogues, or maybe I don't know what to look for. I like Pinetree for their prices, and also order from Territorial and Gourmet Seeds International, and a few items from Baker. I got some limas and favas from Landreth this year, and their packets didn't hold anywhere near what was promised, plus germination wasn't good. I wrote to them and never got a response. That's a shame; I wanted to support them but I can't now.

Madison, AL(Zone 7b)

Morgan, a common complaint I hear from pick-your-own operations is that people absolutely do not respect the plants or the farm and do a LOT of damage. You would think it would be different with a small operation, but I used to live in an area where many gardeners had a sign up, and after their first year it seems most of them stopped allowing people to pick or just took down their signs.

Southern NJ, United States(Zone 7a)

There was a newspaper article about a couple who had a new peach orchard, and the fruit, while plentiful, wasn't large enough for sale, so they invited people to come pick them for free. Some people did a lot of damage to the trees, and also picked the apples which weren't on offer. When the couple put a sign up stating that the peaches were gone and please don't trespass, someone threw a rock at their windows and someone else drove a truck through their fields. They also stole peaches from their neighbor's orchard. Doesn't sound like a good idea, but it's very sad.

Magnolia, TX(Zone 8b)

Disgraceful behavior, I would keep farm and field separate by all means- they believe they are in a groc store, snort, even open market stuff gets clawed over and damaged I've noticed, why many vendors offer a sight of the produce, then bag the requested items from stock behind the counter where it's waiting.

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

We must have nice people here in Minnesota. Never have any produce damaged on the tables. We even have customers who go along & fill their bag and when done hand us the right amount.
Sometimes a new customer will not understand how the market works, but a little explanation & they are right in line.
Usually will be a returning customer as well.
Must be what is called "Minnesota Nice"!
Morgan, we haven't planted corn in a long time. Not enough room. I always did lots of research & mostly planted the most expensive variety. When we last had corn we planted "Radiance". I don't think it exists any longer.
Bernie

Magnolia, TX(Zone 8b)

Minnesota is far more laid back until you talk Vikings, chuckle, love those folx.

Helena, MT

Bernie, sorry to hear that about the corn. I have had better success with Johnny's super sweet until this last season. Could have been the weather. We are similar I think in zones so I look for the short season varieties and try to get under the 70 day time period. I have purchased the same label of corn at two different locations and find there is a big difference for some reason. The Northern X-tra sweet was much tougher to for some reason. Next year I'm going to try something different in spite of family objections. I am leaning towards Jordan's Earlivee hybrid early yellow corn. I don't recall any of the short season members here talking about this variety, but I will do some checking.

Bernie, I have had great success with winter squash and there appears to be a wide selection at Jordan's. I have planted Potamarin for a few years and this year I planted Gold Nugget in the same row. For some reason I have had bad luck with acorn squash, but I saw two varieties in Jordan's which appeared to be short season; Mesa Queen and Taybelle PM. Hokkori also looked appealing...Just can't make up my mind. Since both the summer and winter varieties, as well as pumpkins, easily cross pollinate, I avoid trying to save seed. Presumably squash seed can be saved for a few years so purchasing 500 seeds shouldn't b a big problem if I can find several varieties which will produce well and be marketable.

Yes, yes, I'm backing up on the marketing idea However, I have come back to a thought I had once upon a time. You all are right about pick your own. What was I thinking! Fortunately I have a location which is well traveled. The York Road off my back yard is a two lane highway which is one of the favorite routes to all kinds of recreational activities and in recent yearís new home developments. Plus as I mentioned I live across the highway from one of the better know land marks in the area called Farm-in-the-Dell. My street is only one block long and easily accessed from the east and west, so placing a sign next to the highway would be no problem at all.

Now this is where this idea may get a bit bizarre. My son Matt builds web sites as a side business to his production business and I thought he could put together something simple which I could modify on a day to day basis. I could print up some business cards to hand out to people who stop by after I put up a sign which says for instance ďGREEN BEAN FOR SALEĒ. The intent of the business type card would be to establish a link with returning customers so I could notify them of which vegetables or fruits are available on a given day. They in return could email me back what they would like and it would be ready for them on their way home. It would be easier than going to the grocery store at 5pm, especially here. Quantity and pricing could be prearranged. Payment methods can be variable as well. Iím easy.

Now please give me your honest opinion. Am I completely nuts or is there some validity to this idea???

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

The way for you to go would be a CSA. People sign up for a sack full of whatever you have, either weekly or twice a month. You get paid up front & deliver what you have.
I think you can get more information just by Google.

Magnolia, TX(Zone 8b)

Seasonal availability local stuff made simple,

Southern NJ, United States(Zone 7a)

mraider, I think that's a neat idea. It might take a while to build up a customer base, but once you do it should work well. With a CSA people have to commit to a specific dollar amount and to a regular pickup, which might not work for the people you're thinking about attracting.

Madison, AL(Zone 7b)

That's a terrible story about the folks with the peaches! Some people have no class. (Of course, at my old place I had the stuff in my orchard flat out stolen, so I'm not sure why that story would surprise me.)

The farmstands and orchards around here put their stuff out in boxes or bags, and they only sell by the box or bag. One apple orchard let's you fill your own bag, but from what they've already picked. I do wish they'd offer smaller containers, but it's a small price to pay.

Morgan -- Instead of a web site, it would be simpler if you started a Facebook and/or Twitter account, and posted what you have for sale there. Then people don't have to remember another web site to check. And if you run out you can do a quick update.

As for taking orders... it's an interesting idea. I'm not sure if the amount of work involved would be worth it. You will also have people inevitably not show up. Maybe it's something you offer your regular customers instead of advertise widely? The regular customers are less likely to forget to come buy or to think you time isn't worth anything.

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

We don't offer pick your own, but sometimes a customer would want something that was almost finished or not a good crop and I would say "just go out and pick thru what is out there and take what you want." Big mistake, even my best customers would walk in the raised beds, toss stuff down and make a mess. I will never let anyone just go pick something, even if all that is left is junk! Now I walk out with them if I have time and cut or pull it myself.

Bernie is right about MN! Even in most grocery stores the produce is not smashed (except at Sam's or Walmart where I never shop unless it is the only store in town)

Greenhouse_gal here is one table from Cornell http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.cornell.edu/Tables/BeanTable.html
Bush beans I know of for being resistant: Jade, provider, rocdor, tavera, There are others, beside the name of the bean should be "BMV" which means it is resistant to bean mosaic.
Pole beans: Helda and Blue Lake Pole
I did not like the Jade beans, I think I liked Tavera and Blue Lake Pole (my notes are at home and I am not)

Helena, MT

Agreed, web site out. The idea of regular customers was what I had in mind and a simple email announcement and maybe and attached pic would not be that much trouble. I work at night via the net as an environmental consultant, and making forms is part of what I do. A quick excel form announcing what is available for that particular day could be quickly drafted and sent out to each participants at one time.

I drafted a brief one page letter early this morning which could be given out to a few selected customers explaining how this would work. Initially I can just put out a sign in back along the highway for whatever I wish to sell for that day, and try to be selective as to whom I would give this letter to. I figure about ten people would be all that I care to accommodate with this email announcement.

My logic is that working moms might be the best group to target. We have a very limited number of supermarkets here and our policy is never trying to shop around 5pm on week days. It is absolute chaos even, even finding a parking space is a hassle. A working mom might spend no more than a minute or two on her way home to pick up some peas and new red potatoes; some squash, green beans or corn; or even a bag of lettuce and spinach; or any number of items which could be picked fresh just minutes before her arrival. As retires, the wife and I both have cell phones and either one or the other of us is usually her at home. A simple call announcing their arrival at either the 1 mile or 5 mile marker along the highway gives me two minutes to met the customer and give them their package, and off they go.

When new housing started booming here in the valley about six or seven years ago there were many new homes built in our area. The traffic along the highway into town now is probably tenfold what it was ten years ago when be built our home. So, I believe as my previous realtor wife says, ďlocation, location, locationĒ. Meaning, quick and easy access is the ticket to this whole idea.

Now I agree, this is an idealistic scenario, and we all know Peter is just around the corner. But we will never know if this can work unless we give it a try.

How does 'Morgan's Mini Market' sound???

Helena, MT

Faux Paux, meant Murphy around the corner, but what the heck. Anyway two weeks later and my final 60 ft row planting of the Jade green beans have yielded nothing but a nice row of purslane. I have decided to call Johnny's and ask them the question, just to see what their response will be. Not that it really matters now that the damage is done.

Having given it more thought I have concluded that I will stick to purchasing individual packages in the future rather than bulk (half pound). Although there is considerable savings in buying bulk, I seem feel obligated to continue planting the same package of seed several times at least before I am convinced something is wrong with the seed. How ridiculous is that!

Calalilly, what did you not like about the Jade green beans? I have read that pole beans although they take longer to ripen are better tasting. Just for the fun of it I have planted Blue Lake pole beans in the corn rows. When they do come on they are difficult to pick and if I didn't pick them soon enough they were really stringy. The Jade bush beans last year were the most productive and even later in the season they weren't stringy like Blue Lake and Provider were. As for taste I can't really say I can tell much difference. My method of cooking beans is probably the reason for not being able to distinguish a taste preference.

Talihina, OK

Raider I too planted Jade beans fron JSS and none came up but that is about all I have gotten from JSS that was not as advertised..I mostly buy my seed from a local Greenhouse and I have no idea what company he get them from ..His seed are all bulk and very cheap for instance I bought an ounce of Kale seed for 50 cents he just has these scoop/dippers and each one has a price on it and no matter the variety all seed are the same price per scoop..from .50$ up to 5.00$ right now he is searching for me a good buy on tulip bulbs LOL he knows i will be buying a lot of bulbs for the city so he is wanting that order..

Helena, MT

grits, what is JSS?

I was wrong about the Lipstick pepper seeds. I thought about putting them on the Johnny's order. but ordered them from a tomato catalog which had them for a lesser price. The mislabel however is not a problem since we used them in place of bell peppers in various canning recipes.

Yesterday was the first customer spin off from the veggies sold at the garage sales. Single, working mom too. She seemed really excited about the arrangement. She took a variety of vegetables including six ears of sweet corn. I told her about Gym Girl's (Linda's) method of micro-waving the corn for four minutes in the husks. The corn is extra-sweet from Johnny's and our family favorite. I switched to Northern Xtra-Sweet purchased locally a couple of years ago and everyone said go back to what you were doing before. If you haven't tried microwaved sweet corn in the husk, you are missing out on a real treat. I may even be more nutritious than boiled corn. We prepare it by removing as much of the exposed silk as possible and snapping the stem off the ear and removing a layer or two of husks. Any remaining silk remaining on the corn comes off easily after microwaving. Just remember it will be very hot when you remove it from the microwave, so either let the corn cool before removing the remaining husks or wear some oven gloves. No butter required if you are health conscious, and frankly butter doesn't do a thing to improve the taste. Thank you Linda!










This message was edited Sep 1, 2012 7:28 PM

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

Mraider, the Jade beans didn't do as well as others I'd grown and I didn't like the taste.

Magnolia, TX(Zone 8b)

Hmmm, snaggin that corn recipe

Talihina, OK

JSS Johnnys Selected Seeds sorry was just too lazy to do it right

Helena, MT

Well that's three strikes against Jade green beans. My main concern is when companies label their products germination rate and then something like this happens. How can you trust these labels when it appears they are possibly wrong?

kittrinia...credit to Gym Girl if you like. I can't imagine anything better than corn fixed this way: Quick, easy and absolutely tasty.

Magnolia, TX(Zone 8b)

Love corn. Hominy, grits, sweet, yellow dent, cornbread, tortillas, popcorn, sigh, but the microwave is still new to me, reheats yes, speed cookin sweet corn, oh wow! My bow to our Gymgirl!

Helena, MT

Amen...what is yellow dent?

Magnolia, TX(Zone 8b)

Field corn to me- old fashioned, pre patented, kernels that had thick meaty kernels with a dent on the top, made skillets of fried corn, naturally thickened with black pepper, or just everything! Everyone today prefers the sweet and candy corns, but my memory is gunny sacks of huge ears of field corn and all we kids gathered around to shuck and silk the ears, then boil 5 minutes and start cutting the kernels and scraping the cob clean - then freezer, food and cleanup.

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

This is our second year of Jade beans only. They are well liked by our market customers. Sold out on Thursday & again yesterday. We sell about 8 ounces for $2. Had 3, 4 gallon pails full for yesterday. It might be the care we take of picking them at just the right stage. They get a little big & they are on the ground in the field, not on our market table.
We buy our seed from Jordan's. Never heard of poor germination. Could be these other companies are selling old seed. Jordan's ran out last year, so all theirs was from last years seed production.

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

Forgot I took pictures yesterday.
Here are our Jade beans & Eureka wax beans.

Thumbnail by CountryGardens
Talihina, OK

there was a u tube thing about the cooking of the corn in the husk in micro we have cooked our corn in the micro for almost as many years as we have had a micro only cleaned it first this new way is so much better..All I do is cut off the cob at the stem end and take it out of the micro and grasp it on the silk end with a glove and give it a shake

Helena, MT

I grew up next to a field corn experimental farm in Illinois. Got really good at hopping their six foot barbed wire fence. The wire cage for burning trash was perfect for cooking the corn still in the husk wrapped up in a bunch of wadded news paper. To this day I prefer my corn with a crunch, however the Xtra-Sweet is what everyone else wants. Can't blame them, but I always let some go a bit longer in the garden and I get those.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm finding this matter of recycled seed unethical When a company recycles seed in a new package which is still labeled with the percent germination from the original packaging isn't that fraud? Sooner or later they get caught in the act with seed that may have been improperly handled the first time around and no longer germinates at the original testing. Maybe that is what happened in my case. I have decided on trying a different seed source next season, but I'm going to ask the question first weather they recycle their seed. I could be wrong here, but my guess is that the smaller packets which get recycled may end up in the larger quantity packaging simple because of ease in repackaging. A company like Jordans which sells all their seed in bulk are probably not likely to deal in recycled seed.

Much of the seed sold in packets is either American Seed (Ace Hdwr.) and Ferry Morris, neither of which have impressed me. Quantities sold in packets are barely enough for a singled row in my garden which consists of around forty or more sixty foot rows. So it's easy for me to spend more than $100 each season on seed. Although I like variety and usually plant for or five different types of beans, I have been reluctant to save bean seed from any non-hybridz. The corn seed I plant is always a hybrid, and the saved squash seed is always really funky. I don't mind the expense of buying new seed every year, but if this business of recycled seed becomes a wide problem, I will start limiting my choices and go with heirlooms and open pollinated plants and forget buying new seed every year. I'll bet when the word gets out there will be at least one company which will add a disclaimer to their packaging about using recycled seed. Hopefully that will happen next season.

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

Minnesota law requires seed sellers to retest the germination every year. So Jordan Seeds always has new date & new germination figures on their packages. It usually says tested in month & year. Seed bought in spring of 2012 was tested in Nov & Dec of 2011.

Augusta, GA(Zone 8a)

Recycling of seed is a fact of life. However any reputable company has to have seed tested for germination in December of each year and the result displayed on the packaging. The vendors buy seeds in bulk from a major seed producing company ( Hollar, Seminis, Harris Moran, Sakata, Takii, etc.) many of the OP seeds come from Seeds by Design which specializes in OP's. It is important to always check for the date of germination test. There are internet companies that bypass this information and let the buyer beware. Even so even the major companies will sometimes sell the vendor a bad batch of seed. I have had that happen to me once. My vendor caught it very quickly and alerted me. Sometimes it is a mistake in packaging and sometimes improper handling. Buying seeds packaged for 2012 is no guarantee that the seeds were grown in 2011. But you should expect the germination rates specified if you plant in 2012. This is especially true of slow selling varieties. http://ohioline.osu.edu/b639/b639_2.html

Helena, MT

I feel a bit more at ease if this is true for the majors. It has been several years since I was able to purchase late season seeds in any of the more notable hardware shops or places like Wal-Mart here in my town, so that is why I asked these particular stores what they did with their seed at the end of the season. I was a bit stunned when they told me. If as you say, this is now pretty much a standard practice I will pay more careful attention to labeling when I receive a seed packet in the future, however I believe the law should be more explicit and the packages of recycled seed should be so labeled. And, the buyer should have the right to refuse recycled seed up front. I don't think it's a fair practice which allows the vendor's the opportunity to choose whether a buyer receives either last fall's seed or recycled seed without some pricing compensation as well. Somewhere on line I came across a seed company advertising end of the season reduction in pricing and I thought that was a fair deal. But I don't think recycled seed should be passed off as a 'Buyer Be Ware' situation, and I still will ask the question first before purchasing any seed in the future: "In what year was this seed produced?Ē

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

I bought carrot seeds from Johnny's and when the package arrived the germination test said "65%" germination. I could not believe they sold something with that low germination! They should have noted it in their catalog. I buy in bulk. Those seeds were very expensive.

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