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Tomatoes: Seed Starting Medium

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paulgrow

paulgrow
Allen Park, MI
(Zone 6a)

September 4, 2012
1:53 PM

Post #9264800

Over at Tomatoville there's a thread discussing using Diatomaceous Earth as a seed starting medium.

Those who have tried it report high success rates.
DE is a mineral and is sold in auto supply stores as Ultrasorb. (Nothing else added just DE)

I'm going to be starting some seeds soon in the Master Gardener greenhouse and am going to experiment with DE and a regular seed starting mix and see how it goes.

Paul
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 4, 2012
3:59 PM

Post #9264925

Paul, what is Tomatoville? I think I have looked at it before. Is it just .com? I will try it. Keep us posted what you think of it.
mom2goldens
Carmel, IN
(Zone 5b)

September 4, 2012
8:47 PM

Post #9265289

Paul: I have some DE that is labeled as food grade. Is there a difference between that and what is sold at auto supply stores?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 4, 2012
10:48 PM

Post #9265387

I tried Tomatoville before and had trouble with it. They had a random question for me. "How many stripes does the American flag have"? I put 13 and it said it was the wrong answer. Well, I googled it and all of theirs said the same thing. And they keep saying it is the wrong answer. Don't know what they want. Oh well, they can't want new people on there very bad.

ttyl, jen
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

September 5, 2012
5:31 AM

Post #9265515

Jen, I'm sitting here laughing b'c when the site went down a month or so ago b'c of a transfer of servers, I too had to get back on and I too said 13 and was rejected, and I was at Tville from the first day it opened back in Jan of 2006. LOL

I think the answer is 6 or 7, maybe someone here can confirm that for you, I certainly hope so.

And no, it has nothing to do with the site not wanting new members, b'c the rate of new members right now is beyond anything I've seen since I've been there.

You can read that DE thread in the Seed Starting Forum and almost all other Forums without registering but need to register if you wish to post and all is free. Right now there are about 10,000 members and the site is very active and of course there's much more there than just tomatoes.

Just letting you know that I goofed as well and I too Googled it and still was wrong. LOL

And IMO I can't see where using DE is going to help that many get better germination, but am glad that Paul and others will use controls to help answer that question.

Carolyn
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 5, 2012
3:15 PM

Post #9266128

Hi Carolyn, Thanks for confirming that I am not crazy. Google sites ALL, yes literally ALL (that I looked at) say 13 because they are counting both red and white. But, if you only count red, I guess thinking the white is background, then there are 7. I would think both answers would be correct, and whoever is not counting the 13 is a moron. The 13 is suppose to represent all 13 colonies.

Ok, back to the DE. I cannot see where there would be any food value in it to feed them once the initial seed is used up. I think I read where there is something in the seeds to get them started.

It might be that there should be no initial diseases?? Maybe that is it. If so, why not just sprinkle the DE on top of the starting mix to keep down any damping off or whatever??

OH, BTW, it said that the info I was using, email address, user name, had been used before already. Yup, think I went thru all this once before and gave up figuring to h--- with them.

Jeanette

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 5, 2012
7:37 PM

Post #9266443

You might want to assure that the DE doens't pack down so tight there is no room for air. You might have to mix it with something fibrous like peat, coir or bark fiber. Or chunky like coarse Perlite, coarse grit or fine bark nuggets.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

September 5, 2012
7:44 PM

Post #9266450

OH, BTW, it said that the info I was using, email address, user name, had been used before already. Yup, think I went thru all this once before and gave up figuring to h--- with them.

******

I'll check the member list to see ir the user name you use here is also there, assuming you use the same user name wherever you read/post.

Had you tried before to register there, I mean not lately ?.

When you say to H with them, me is them since I'm a Global Moderator there but I'm not the one who approves new registrations.

If you're frustrated and yet want to register I can tell you another way to go about it by directly contacting the person who does approve the new registrations.

I meant to check the member list at Tville for your user name to see if you'd registered at some other time, in which case you user name and e-mail address would be on record. But I came here to IE since most of the time I can' post directly at DG and it's the ONLY site where I can't do that.

I can do that when I log on tomorrow if you use the same user name at all places b'c that's the only way that the server/computer would say that your user name and e-mail were already on record.

Carolyn

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 5, 2012
9:40 PM

Post #9266569

Carolyn, as far as I know I did use the same ID and user name. I go into so many anymore that I am not sure.

Do you need those to check? Let me know and I will D mail you. Don't know why tho, it is no big secret. Right?

Jen
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

September 6, 2012
10:22 AM

Post #9267044

Jen, I checked and there is no member with the user name you use here.

If you want to e-mail me with your other user names since you said you read/post at many other sites I can then recheck.

If not, and you still want to register at Tville I can tell you that other way to get help.

My e-mail addy is cmale@aol.com and folks this is just for Jen.

Jen, I used to participate and many message sites, and I think it's great if folks have the time to do so, but slowly I've dropped almost all of them for different reasons at different sites. As in enough is enough, really, at some sites b/c I simply cannot stand what's called Forum/ Website politics.

Carolyn
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 6, 2012
6:43 PM

Post #9267496

No Carolyn, I'm not on any more sites either. Everyone swears FB is so private and I went on there once because so many of my friends were on there and wanted me to. Well, I read about people I didn't even know. Nope, don't have time for it either.

When I said I read/post at other sites, I mean things like my bank, etc. Other than that I am on 2 or 3 garden sites. I hate the fact that you have to have passwords/user names/ids for everything. Like someone else is going to pay my light bill???? That is what I meant.

I guess I really don't want to be on Tomatoville, I was just curious about the DE used for seeds. Just another one I need the above for. Now I have a whole long list of passwords etc. for those very same things. Even my mail order pharmacy. Yes, some things like that I can see.

But, I have never had any trouble growing from seed with anything I use. Just curious is all. Thanks anyway. Jen BTW, I just like to experiment is all. :0)

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 6, 2012
11:27 PM

Post #9267676

I don't know about using DE solely as a seed starter mix.but I always have mixed a little into my seed mix. Results are about the same with mine I far as I can tell.The plus is any bugs you might have or get "take a powder" instead of a seedling
JoParrott
Richland, WA
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2012
7:45 AM

Post #9267876

Forgive me if this is a bit off topic, but I buy 5# bags of of Kitty Litter at my Dollar Store which is 100% DE. I have used it for 3 years as an additive to my potting & growing mix. It works great for improving aeration & water distribution.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
11:09 AM

Post #9268048

I have never heard of using DE for kitty litter Jo. How much does it cost? In garden places it is pretty expensive. For litter I don't think they could charge a lot or people wouldn't buy it.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
11:21 AM

Post #9268065

All natural kitty litter is to heavy for me to use,after it saturates to much like heavy clay.it is not bad with all the silica and other minerals for "dead soil".Improving though.It just takes it a while to do that also. I have a few hen &chicks growing in some with lava rocks,as long as it sets high and drains it works otherwise it mucks.
3.50 TO 5.50 FOR A BAG, around here.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
12:44 PM

Post #9268143

I can't stand the dust of the litter. Even the clay is dusty. Bob has to take the boxes outside to clean and change them. Is the DE dusty? I have never used it in bulk like that before. Is it a finer stuff than than they use in the garden? I would imagine, or it would cut the skin of the cats wouldn't it? But then finer would be dusty too wouldn't it?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
12:45 PM

Post #9268146

Forgot to ask how big a bag?
JoParrott
Richland, WA
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2012
12:48 PM

Post #9268150

Jnette, the litter I buy is $1 at the Dollar Tree-- I had said it is 5#, but it is 4.5# . I don't have a cat, but I wouldn't be surprised if DE was an ingredient in many brands. In my opinion, it is about the texture of perlite. Here are some photos- at the moment I have a wheelbarrow full- I used 1 bag litter, I bag Topsoil, and 1 bag Nursery Mix from Lowe's. It makes a great mix for topderssing and container use, as well as in ground use.

Thumbnail by JoParrott   Thumbnail by JoParrott   Thumbnail by JoParrott      
Click an image for an enlarged view.

JoParrott
Richland, WA
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2012
12:52 PM

Post #9268156

Jnette, we posted at the same time! Yes, there is a little dust to the litter, like in perlite(since they are both rock products.) If it really bothers you, you could always wet it before using it. I just make sure not to breate it as I add it- once mixed there is no problem. Our Dollar Tree keeps a lot of it in stock, and I am their best customer!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
12:58 PM

Post #9268168

Very dusty, I have a 15 pound bag of DE sitting behind me as I type this,You have to be careful not to breath it in,not because it is poison or anything ,but because it is food grade dust, like sulpher powder, finer than baby powder.
I mist spray some in my hand to dry bath pets with, keeps the dust down.
Mostly when it comes to such things I go for or with food grade,so many ways to poison ones self.
Well anyway we are talking super dust like perfume to the nose,dust is so fine it is to the level of odors, which incidentally it can also be used to control. Well anyway get ya a painters surgical or drywall mask and I am sure you will be fine l lol.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
1:08 PM

Post #9268185

My favorite is a bag of shult'z aquarium rock for plants, kinda expensive and made from fullers earth,good stuff, I use it more in decoration than my starter pots. My own opinion is nothing works as well as finer old gravel ,you know the older finer particles that are like sand, only they are still rougher.
JoParrott
Richland, WA
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2012
1:12 PM

Post #9268194

juhur7, yours is a lot dustier than that I use- different grinds, I guess- anyway, someone could wear a mask while mixing it-

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
1:21 PM

Post #9268204

I forgot to answer 15lbs around here,lol.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
1:29 PM

Post #9268215

JoParrott thh bag siting behind me that I am talking about is real DE not mixed with the kitty litter ,it is like flour! Of course it is what is in the litter than causes some of the dust and odor control.
It has rained for three days here and the litter from a bag of all natural has gotten gray and heavy like a gray plastic clay as putty, which for mold making it is used also . Unless I mix gritty sand or small gravel with it here, at ground level or during rainy seasons it mucks like the clay base it is.
Works decent raised up mixed with lava rock for cacti , and that is not bad!
JoParrott
Richland, WA
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2012
1:38 PM

Post #9268225

The DE I use is just that- 100% DE- nothing else mixed with it- it is not the coasreness of dust, it is just about the same size of perlite-the little pile in this photo is about 4" in length. The bag states: ingredients-Diatomaceous Earth.(see the photo of the bag) DE is available in many forms- I once bought a bag at Lowe's to use for slug control, but when I read about it not being effective when wet, I returned it. That bag was a coarse dust-I remember.

Thumbnail by JoParrott
Click the image for an enlarged view.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
1:47 PM

Post #9268232

I will take that to be a lesson and if the Dollar tree is still where it was on the other side of town the next trip to wall mart will have an extra stop. I like the coarse size and look of your pic .I will have see about that. So the bag says like blue &red ribbon? yes I really do look at pics and read them lol!
JoParrott
Richland, WA
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2012
2:00 PM

Post #9268248

Right- it says Blue Ribbon- all the $Trees in my area stay stocked up on it- good luck- I am really sold on it- even add it to my houseplant mix to make it lighter in texture.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
2:11 PM

Post #9268257

Thank you,!! You know the last time I saw a bag that looked like that was a Blue -red bag at a Centennial 1-5-10 store, And I am not going say when that was.
THANKS AGAIN! THAT IS SOME GOOD EARTH.!!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
5:06 PM

Post #9268373

Well the rock absorbing crystals is all there is around town so I just had to buy some, not as compulsive as useful as I have been looking for them for a while anyway.
Made by the same company as the Blue Ribbon and it does not look bad.So beware to the snails,lol
I know it was not a deal or anything at 5.99 for a 15 lb bag, only it should last awhile and that is all right with me!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
7:14 PM

Post #9268490

Jo, I couldn't see on the bag, did it say anything about the size of the grind? The dust thing probably sounds silly, but I have a medical thing and I have to be careful. The cats hair is bad enough, plus I have a short hair lab dog that all are in the house, especially in the winter. Have to vacuum a lot. I have a central vacuum and that is good since it puts all the hair etc. in the basement in a tank.

When I made my hosta bed I bought a bag of DE for slugs. But they are in a raised bed and I haven't seen any slugs near them and haven't used the DE yet. But it is a much finer grind than what you pictured Jo. Interesting. I have never seen it that large.

I will certainly look next time I go over to Walmart. 40 miles away. I am going to make Earth- Buckets for my tomatoes next year. So, I need to get colanders too. They get them from $ stores.

Jen

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
7:34 PM

Post #9268502

I get leopard snails 6-8 -9 inches long they can eat more than locusts and grasshoppers when they find a seedling they like, the seedling has no chance! They appear Sept. through Oct. here, I don't like to kill things just to be killing or destroying them and this is a good way to redirect them. Keeps my frogs and toads a little happier also.
I am thinking I will be happy as satisfied with the 100% DE absorption crystals (made by the same company) from the auto parts store, it looks like heavy grained sand only it is real light,just what I was looking to test.
Thank you both for the thread chat,the direct and info has been useful.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
7:43 PM

Post #9268506

Jnette; try" Molten ,blue ribbon d.e. kitty litter" they have a page flyer that shows the grind consistency . AND thank you for the colander suggestion, I hadn't gotten that one till just now (duh) lol
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
7:44 PM

Post #9268508

Yes, thanks you guys. I am looking for this stuff everywhere now. Auto parts you say? Interesting. For sucking up oil huh?

Know what you mean about the slugs, snails, Seattle gets them real bad too, the slugs. When I lived there they were really bad. You know the best thing I found to get rid of them? Ducks. The ducks love them and dig down under rocks etc. where they lay their eggs.

When I had them the neighbors used to have bathtubs of water out for my ducks. They cleaned up the whole neighborhood. I only had a couple. But a mail truck hit one and don't remember what happened to the other one but after they were gone it was 3 years before I saw a slug in my yard.

Now I have polymer absorption crystals and I don't think they are DE. Jen

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
7:47 PM

Post #9268511

juhur7

I will. Go to the container planting in the community forums and Gym Girl has a really good thread on the Earth Buckets. She tells how to make am going to use that in my mix next year in them.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
7:49 PM

Post #9268513

Know what? I think we hijacked this thread from Paul. So sorry Paul. We just got wrapped up in the DE. Jeanette
JoParrott
Richland, WA
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2012
7:54 PM

Post #9268518

Jnette, is that hijacking? We are discussing DE- although not for starting seeds. I know I am really enjoying the info we are exchanging, and if I had started the thread I would not feel like it was hijacked. I hope we can continue- Moltan is the company that manufactures it, and you can Google it and get the info on the coarseness. If I have upset anyone, please accept my apologies- I just get excited when I can offer any help-

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
7:57 PM

Post #9268520

I'm sure you know this by now but when you go to Molten Blue ribbon products you can press the DE products button It will show you all the 100% DE products they make.
I am sure you will be able find one or the other somewhere near you,
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
8:05 PM

Post #9268529

Thanks juhur7. I don't know, some people get upset over a few taking over the conversation and some don't. I never do, I love it when people discuss interesting things. Even if they are off topic. But others don't. Paul hasn't said anything.

The funny thing is, I went to the first one of the links you posted and it took me to Tomatoville which Paul started this thread out with and they don't like my answers and won't let me in. Oh well. I have been turned down by better people. LOL, isn't that the way it goes?

Carolyn was nice enough to offer to help me with TV but that's ok. I can get on Molten and get their info. Thanks you guys. Don't let me stop this tho 'cause Paul hasn't said anything. And you are right J. We are still on topic.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
8:06 PM

Post #9268532

My only thing is off a bit we were but , mites whitefly several fungi (that I don't particularly know the name of except maybe generally mold) all are kept away from seedlings when using D.E.
A seedling mix suggested here before; sphagnum moss sand DE all in one part to one part is what I will try first..

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 7, 2012
8:13 PM

Post #9268539

When I first went to tomatoville it only had about 20 registered members, won't let me in lately and my potential risk on microsoft shows when I am there. I think a line or communication piracy may be at work there recently.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2012
8:44 PM

Post #9268577

Ok you all, this is going to be off topic just once, but I have to tell you, and you might already know. But Jo, you guys should be in the middle of your corn on the cob season so I have to tell you guys. 'cause we had it for dinner. If you haven't already, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnBF6bv4Oe4 and follow it to a Tee. DH puts it directly in the microwave oven, 2 hears for 7 minutes, oh on high. It is sooooo good. And comes out clean!! With this method, we eat so much corn it is coming out our EARS!! LOL

Ok, back topic. I am going to try the DE in the spring. Along with the Earth Buckets. Seems like every year I have to try something different. Oh well, guess that is the fun of gardening. Jen

OutsidePlaying
Laceys Spring, AL
(Zone 7a)

September 11, 2012
10:23 AM

Post #9272017

Jnette, sorry to stay OT, but we've been nuking corn down south here for years, lol! Sorry you've just 'discovered' it as it's a pretty handy way to enjoy corn in a hurry. I've not viewed the you tube video, but 7 minutes sounds about right. We used to wrap it in foil and grill it too, and that's pretty tasty. Y'all enjoy your corn and I'll continue to lurk on the original topic!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 11, 2012
12:54 PM

Post #9272125

OP, more than the handy way to cook the corn, it is the fact that it cleans the hair off of it better than if you sat there picking it off piece by piece. Jen
OutsidePlaying
Laceys Spring, AL
(Zone 7a)

September 11, 2012
1:15 PM

Post #9272135

No kidding. I love that part!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 11, 2012
1:17 PM

Post #9272138

You like picking that hair out of your mouth cause you couldn't get it all? How gross.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 11, 2012
1:30 PM

Post #9272150

ROFL!!!!
OutsidePlaying
Laceys Spring, AL
(Zone 7a)

September 11, 2012
1:57 PM

Post #9272167

NO!! I meant I like that part of cooking it in the microwave or the grill because it gets all the silks off, LOL!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 11, 2012
2:34 PM

Post #9272200

LOL that is so funny. You can get up off the floor juhur7. And quit laughing. LOL. Yeah, I guess I did misunderstand you. :P)

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 11, 2012
2:50 PM

Post #9272214

Your only making me laugh harder, and longer and louder than before!!! My goodness!!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 11, 2012
4:57 PM

Post #9272395

Well darn, you know what happens when you laugh so hard. Don't do that!!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 11, 2012
5:13 PM

Post #9272412

OH !!Gracious!! it hurts ..,it hurts, LOL LOL!!!!!
OutsidePlaying
Laceys Spring, AL
(Zone 7a)

September 11, 2012
7:53 PM

Post #9272569

Too funny! We all needed a good laugh!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 11, 2012
8:29 PM

Post #9272629

juhur7 I told you to quit!!! Hope you don't have a hernia. That would really hurt.

It does help now and then doesn't it OP. You guys have a good sense of humor. Thanks. Lots a people wouldn't take it that way. Your great!!

Jeanette

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 11, 2012
9:42 PM

Post #9272725

Jnette; I have had a couple of those and they do hurt ,lol It was when you said "gross" it reminded me of years ago,when an elder was picking corn hairs from his teeth and said the corn on the cob was delicious,but picking all the hairs from his teeth reminded him of eating rats or mice.I remembered the look on his face while he saying that and I lost it lol That was hilarious . "Gross ,but hilarious!"
And I am getting ready to start some more seeds with DE mix ,and we will see how that goes ,while they won't be tomatoes it will tell how as to a clue or two how it might do for the vegetables.

We think your great also !!,you give us cause towards creativity and imagination,delightful sense of humor also I would guess.
Like myself and JP earlier it is nice to be able to discuss something without anyone getting angry,gives us a chance to have some fun while we learn something,at least hopefully!lol
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 12, 2012
5:58 PM

Post #9273460

Now that would be the grossest Juhur7!! And he said that while you were all eating? OMG!

What kind of seeds are you going to start?

We do learn if we keep an open mind. Now you are in zone 6, Indiana? What in the world are you going to start? Unless you are going to put them under lights in the house?? Then what?

Jeanette

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 12, 2012
6:20 PM

Post #9273472

A few plants mostly flowers , some onions maybe lettuce,
TODAY ; only poppies got planted, lupines started germinating,if they get four inches or better ,they will return next spring! I have some tiny little ice plants started but I bought some anyway,slow to start and slow to grow they have been for me.

Yes it was while we eating but not at the dinner table,outside picnic type roast,
When you said that I thought of that and then thought about a mouthful of mouse hair) oooo,gookey Coudn't seem to stop laughing for hours.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 12, 2012
7:24 PM

Post #9273543

I planted some new daylily plants I started from seed, then traded my other daylily seeds away and now I am trying some more I bought ,how ridiculous is that.! Nah really looking for more colors to play with is all.
Most are near only not the same from saved seeds as ,so you never know what color they will be, but I just thought I would try my luck at some different than my own.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 12, 2012
10:24 PM

Post #9273704

Wow, how long does it take daylilies to bloom from seed?? Bet a long time!

You are very easy to amuse Juhur7. LOL I can't see anything funny about a mouthful of mouse hair. That is really disgusting!!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 12, 2012
10:49 PM

Post #9273709

The daylilies should bloom next year, from seed, however I have a dwarf hybrid that took three seasons, that is ,I think, as I know it was at least that long.(that's not suppose to happen).


Yeah, All right so I have a weird or perhaps childish sense of humor sometimes,At risk of being offensive does that mean perhaps you prefer beetles or maybe ants, or butterflies?I seem to remember a while ago that Butterfly eating came up in a conversation that you were part of.Truly during that conversation I said it ain't any worse mentally than eating snails anyway.Slime goo,and mushy things that are alive,(or dead for that matter) just aren't that appetizing to me. Neither was hair as food!lol
Try and take this as light hearted as that is the only way it is meant.Kind of like the bag of DE on amazon for $992.00 that I paid a little over $5.00 for. That's a Blue Ribbon sucker winner for sure!lol
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 13, 2012
5:53 PM

Post #9274423

Oh my goodness juhur7don't be hurt by anything I said. No, no, no snails, slugs, ants, beetles, butterflies, anything else? These are little creatures meant for a purpose I am sure, even if it is to eat our pretty flowers. :0) I certainly didn't want to hurt your feelings.

What in the world is the DE on Amazon used for? How big a bag is it? We went to the local, by that I mean 50 miles away, for cat food and litter etc. but they didn't have Blue Ribbon brand in anything. Would feed stores carry it? We have one of those nearby. I have a small bag of DE I bought last year for slugs. Can't remember what I paid for it.

So I ended up getting some pelletized made with natural fiber, whatever that is. I really don't like the clay based. Or any dusty stuff. I bought some stuff on line one time that sounded good, but the shipping was a lot, and I read the ingredients which it didn't say on the computer, and it was made of corn. Well, my dog had a habit of getting into the cat box at the time so I took it to the Pet Rescue for their use.

Smile juhur7, that is the way I like people to be. Thanks, Jen

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 13, 2012
6:18 PM

Post #9274440

That was a 15 pd bag of the same Blue Ribbon we all use. Sometimes amazon just does that.
The bag I have as I said before,is a 15lb bag made by molten who makes blue ribbon and it is not dusty at all, it is granules, for picking up oil and spills and it is 100% DE. (Auto parts store).
I have no idea who carries what and at what time of year any more.
Yeah, the litter like corn gluten,? I was reading about sorghum micro solutions for feeding plant ,only I seem to recall mixing that and letting a spoon full or two set a while till use. Some plants if it to heavy it can cause fungus others I seem to remember it worked real well .
I grew this from seed ,one of my few successes this year.tomatoes;
top half and bottom half of plant ,got about 7ft or so an it is still going.

Thumbnail by juhur7   Thumbnail by juhur7   Thumbnail by juhur7      
Click an image for an enlarged view.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 13, 2012
6:20 PM

Post #9274443

I forgot:-)
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 13, 2012
6:42 PM

Post #9274465

LOL cute. What did you start from seed? The tomato or the bush? What is the bush? 7 ft? What is it? Did you query it, the DE, and see how much it was in another place, like maybe Blue Ribbon itself?

I wonder if there are different grinds and that might be the difference in price? Different uses. Maybe the slug use is a different one than the cat litter.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 13, 2012
7:05 PM

Post #9274495

Okay you see pretty good! you see the apple tree behind the plant encroaching on the far right in the pic,A little milkweed vine lower right, okay so I need to weed a little!LOL! The remainder is the tomato plant ,what do think of my extreme sawhorse trellis stands.One year they were all that survived a couple of storms,extreme to the Max though huh?:-)
According to molten on the website they have,they make at least four different grinds. Only the composition of DE no matter what grind repels slugs and snails and from experience grasshoppers don't like it either.
Difference in price could be a million different things or reasons just like S&H on everything.
The purpose here was finding a grind that doesn't disappear in the rain outside, that is also suitable for plant seed mix.
If you want I can in a few days when I playing with my mix write down he granule number if it is there, mine is like heavy sand, really a heavy coarse grit. I am only now finding out if it is any good for my use of it..
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 14, 2012
9:29 AM

Post #9275015

Hey, whatever works, and I can't imagine anything sturdier than saw horses. Who woulda thought? Looks like it works good.

No, don't do that with the DE. I can do some research myself if I find any other than in the garden dept. I think they even use it for flea powder on dogs don't know about cats. But, you know, I have often wondered if it cuts the bellies of the slugs etc. why wouldn't it be bad for the dogs if they get it in their stomachs?

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 14, 2012
11:11 AM

Post #9275112

It'S DIRT dogs dig and get dirty on the nose and snout, Like any other I suppose it wouldn't hurt them as long it was not polluted,
Kinda like us about lead and such from the soil we grow our plants in.!! Woof!! Woof!! LOL

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 14, 2012
5:04 PM

Post #9275429

I just re-read the title of this thread and an image popped into my mind.

A woman with strange incense burning and eerie music playing.

She wears loose, flowing clothes and a turban.

She recieves psychic messaqges from seeds trying to germinate.

"I hear a message ... it's from a perrenial beginning woth "M" ... does anyone in the audience have perrenial seeds named "M" trying to germinate ?"
...
"Yes, it's a Mint ... Choccolate Mint ... it says it's waterlogged and too cold ... it wants you to water less often and set its pot on a capillary mat on a warm windowsill ... "

She's a Seed Starting Medium.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 14, 2012
9:34 PM

Post #9275656

Rick, what are you smoking? LOL How did you get that? Haven't heard from you for a long time. What have you been doing, and what are your garden and yard doing this summer. BTW, you gave me those seeds for Omars Lemonese Tomatoes. Good grief, they were huge, and ripened the same time as EArly Girls!! How did yours do? \\

We are just now eating tomatoes til they are coming out our ears. Everything ripened at the same time!! Because of the cold nights, and the fact that I quit watering them. I pick probably 10 lbs at a time now. We can't eat that many. I am going to make some Gazpacho out of some and freeze some of that. Have to heat it for winter tho. LOL

BTW, how did that lilac do for you that I sent you? Bet it didn't bloom this year, but might next. How are the neighbors??

Jeanette
DonShirer
Westbrook, CT
(Zone 6a)

September 16, 2012
6:24 AM

Post #9276492

Rick:
It is incumbent on you to spank your psychic if she becomes over-elated from her predictions. I'm sure its ok, because you can always strike a happy medium.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 16, 2012
10:11 PM

Post #9277386

>> you can always strike a happy medium.

(sputter snort gurgle)

I am SO glad I wasn't sipping coffee when I read that!

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 16, 2012
10:11 PM

Post #9277387

Hi Jeanette

The lilacs are still in pots with leaves and seem fairly happy. I'm still tryi9ng to think of where to put them, but MY yard is mostly partial shade, and there's no chance I can encroach on the neighbor's yard - someone else moved in who's very hard to get along with.

I'm really glad the Omar's Lebanese ripened early, I was afraid they would be late season. I knew they would big. Were they light-colored (like pink)? Good flavor or bland?

I didn't get any tomato seeds started this year (hardly any seeds at all except Snow Peas). A few cherry tomato seedlings followed me home from Fred Meyers, but a late spring, cool summer and early fall have so far produced about 2-3 cherry tomatoes per plant. And they taste semi-ripe, I assume from the cool nights. Oh well.

Busy busy busy ... but the plants don't want to hear about it. They think I should take care of their needs when they need it, and that work and my life should take second place.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 17, 2012
8:50 AM

Post #9277720

Well Rick, I don't know how those lilacs can do anything in a pot.

The OL was quite meaty, but not dry. Medium pink, with a good flavor. Not either sweet or acidic. I think our cold nights, plus cutting back on the water got them all to ripen . Problem is, they all ripened at the same time. Can't use that many at once.

What cherry toms did you plant? The only ones I plant any more are the Sun Sugars. I have to get a new pack of their seeds, 'cause I always give so many away, but I will send you some when I get them, for you to try next year. Altho, I do think a lot comes into play when you talk about flavor, ripening, etc. i.e. soil, heat, sun, water.

LOL, the plants are right if you expect them to produce for you.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 17, 2012
11:19 AM

Post #9277832

I only planted Sungold this year. Fred Meyer had some 6-packs (the kind that fit 72 cells in one 11x21" tray) for soemthing like $2. I couldn't resist. But I also couldn't provide warmth! I potted them up right away, but took too long getting them into soil.

>> LOL, the plants are right if you expect them to produce for you.

You're right: they need what they need, when they need it. Fortunately, humans are more forgiving!

>> they all ripened at the same time

Hmm, I read that they were indeterminate. I guess you can't trust everything you read!

Hmm, I don't have Sun Sugar seeds! Thanks! Would you want to try any of these?
It would probably be easier to read as a Word doc

name DET color SIZE
Early ssusabakus aliana ? ? cherry early?
Chocolate Cherry dark cherry
Super Snow White OP white cherry
Black Cherry OP black cherry
Yellow Pear yellow cherry
'Purple Cherry' dark cherry
Sebastopol INDET red cherry Mid-S
Nikolayev Yellow Cherry INDET yellow cherry Mid-S
"Balcony Charm"
Early ssusabakus aliana
'Dwarf Beryl Beauty ' OP 3-4' green/gold LATE
Gardener's Delight ?
Koralic ?
Lyana ?
Kalinka
BEAVERLODGE PLUM +EARLY
Ispolin (Russian) INDET red large early
Esterelle red
Matina early
Marmande (from POAJoan) semi-DET red 6 oz.
Amish Salad red
Red Alert DET red med-small early
Moskovich / Moskvitch INDET red med 4-6 oz 70 day
Legend OP red med EARLY cool
Siletz
Rocket Bush
Mountain Princess
'Bushy Charbarovsky'
Red Alert
Mirabelle (French) INDET yellow-orange sweet, prolific, egg-shaped 65-70 dy
Rosalie's Early Orange or Sweet Horizon INDET Bright Orange large heart early
Kellogg's Breakfast 4-8' INDET orange large OP Beefsteak Mid-S
Belarus Orange orange
Beryl Beauty green/gold
Feuerwerk ?
Great White white
Black Krim dark
Cherokee Purple dark
Tasmanian Chocolate dark
Kardinal Tshyornyi DARK
Black Prince DARK

===================================

I may not have everything in this list, but I think I have 80-90% of it:
ULTRA-EARLY & COLD-TOLERANT:

Glacier - ultra-early, cold-tolerant, SEMI-DET
Stupice - ultra-early, cold-tolerant, compact DET


EXTRA-EARLY & COLD-TOLERANT:

Oregon Spring - extra-early, very cold-tolerant, "plant 4 wks before last frost & protect only when there's frost"
Manitoba - extra-early, cold-tolerant, 3'-4' DET, "Canadian for colder climates"
Matina - extra-early, INDET, "dependable even in cold/wet summers"
Sub-Artic Plenty - extra-early, "Canadian", DET Allegedly developed in the 1940's by the U.S. Military to provide fresh tomatoes to their troops in Greenland.

Northern Delight - ultra-early, "for the Far North", 2' DET
Beaverlodge series - ultra-early, compact DET, containers
Sophie's Choice: Heirloom from Edmonton, Canada, introduced by Carolyn Male in 1997.
Extra early, flavorful. 2' DET vines suited to containers. 6-12 ounce globes red-orange outside and deep red flesh.
Strong disease resistance. Not heat-tolerant or drought-tolerant. Best production in cooler climates.


EXTRA-EARLY:

Early Cascade - (hybrid but seems pretty true) - early, short-summer, PNW, "reliable: sets fruit in any climate"
Early Wonder - extra-early, 3'-4' SEMI-DET, med red globe
Early Wonder - extra-early, SEMI-INDET
Siletz - extra-early, reliable, DET,
Sungold F1 - extra-early, 4'-8' INDET, containers, sweet orange cherry with 'tropical' flavor
Ildi - extra-early, yellow grape pear, 8'-10' INDET
Gold Nugget - extra-early, 2-3' DET, bland yellow cherry


EARLY:

Yellow Plum - early, productive even in cold, 4'-6' INDET, yellow cherry
Bloody Butcher - early, cool climate, 4'-6'
Maskabec - early, 18"-36" DET, 4-6 oz. red globe
Golden Rave (hybrid) - early, gold Roma plum6'-8' INDET
Husky Cherry Red - early, semi-DET or dwarf INDET
Sub Artic Cherry - early, DET, pink, "developed in Alberta for short seasons"
Early Cascade - early, short summer, red-orange

LESS EARLY:

Marmande - semi-early, cool climate, med-large red beefsteak type, full flavor
Santa Cherry / Santa Sweets - mid-season, tolerates cool summers, 4'-8' INDET
Morden Yellow - mid-late, Canadian for colder climates, 2'-3' DET, med yellow globe
Early Girl (hybrid) - semi-early, med red globe, flavorful






Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 17, 2012
12:01 PM

Post #9277880

LOL, quite a list Rick. NO, I am only going to plant a few different ones next year. They are too much work for just one or 2 tomatoes per a plant. Will plant the ones I had good luck with this year. I may even drop Early Girls they weren't as early as some of the others. Altho, they are coming on good now. I had Tomontaros, German Johnsons, and a few like that that were earlier and now the EGs, Oregon Spring, and another one I can't think of right off hand are coming on heavier. So, I did like the Tomontaros and GJs. The Sun Sugars are better than the Sun Golds I think, and yes, they are indeterminates.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 17, 2012
5:03 PM

Post #9278184

I had great luck with Sun Gold my first year, even after a few cold nights ioccured they kept their flavor. Even Stupice tasted like oatmeal after that c old spell, but the Sungold stayed tasty.

This year, they never seemed to get fully ripe even if I let them go several days last full color. Late start and cool summer where I am.

Hmm, you're 380 miles from me by road, it looks like 250-300 miles east of Seattle. Quite a climate difference.

Weather.com has a "" claulator that says our ZIP coees AVERAGE the same number of degree days from jan 1 to Sept 16, but this year I was cooler and you were warmer:


Growing Degree Days (daily average temp minus 50 degrees F)

My ZIP 98204 just north of Seattle, 1-2 miles from the coast::
2012 to date = 1410.5 GDD
Average** = 1600.0 GDD

Your ZIP:
2012 to date = 1949.5 GDD
Average * * * = 1598.5 GDD

http://www.weather.com/outdoors/agriculture/growing-degree-days/99139


Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 17, 2012
5:07 PM

Post #9278188

Gosh Rick, I thought you guys were warmer than we were almost all summer. Even now I don't think I ever saw it as warm over there as this year.

I don't understand how zip codes mean anything with the weather.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 17, 2012
5:22 PM

Post #9278200

The ZIP code just provides a specific location to the degree day calculator. That lets it check actual NOAA daily records: daily high and daily low.

>> I thought you guys were warmer than we were almost all summer.

We get really cool summers to go with our mild winters. Especially at night. This year it seemed only a few weeks (5? 6?) that nights stayed above 50 degrees. And we didn't get a "70" day untill pretty late in the summer.

While everyone else was burning up, we were still waiting for a warm day!

But we did have a drought ... 49 days without a drop. Then about 1/32" of rain followed by more "dry". They said it was the longest totally dry spell since 1950, and would have been an all-time record since records were kept, if we had gone another 2-3 days.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 17, 2012
8:30 PM

Post #9278383

No Rick, Everyone else wasn't burning up. We were drowning in rain all of June. Yes, I know you had a record of no rain. Really amazing for Seattle area.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 17, 2012
8:41 PM

Post #9278394

IT rained once here after 27 days of no rain in June ,we are not even going to talk about July, P.U. What a season!!!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 17, 2012
9:07 PM

Post #9278423

Well Juhur7, I know how bad everyone else had it and I don't really think we had it so bad even tho nothing would grow. :0) No, I think the whole world was topsy turvy weather wise this year. Let's hope it doesn't keep it up.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 17, 2012
9:46 PM

Post #9278456

Long range forecasts are saying it is only going to do this another ten years :-) ? Oh Well.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 17, 2012
9:52 PM

Post #9278460

Wow!! Really? I sure hope not. The corn fields will never make it. They better figure out a way to get water to them. They kinda run everything. The farmers up here will have to start growing corn.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 17, 2012
9:57 PM

Post #9278464

Kinda like time for Northeastern Washington residents to level off those ancient alien gold fields greensand them and grow that corn!!!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 17, 2012
9:59 PM

Post #9278466

They do grow wonderful corn here. Would hate to see it put in a gas tank tho. Or any other uses they have today, feeding pigs, chickens, etc. It is too good for them.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 17, 2012
10:14 PM

Post #9278479

Well it is usually that way here also only one field not to far from here only got about four feet tall!
Remembering it is all part of a cycle animals help grow all that,and they have to feed them something , if they aren't grazed or the room doesn't exist.
I'm sure you know the corn you eat ain't feed corn that's hard grain field corn you and I eat sweet corn at least until now anyway.. After this year cereal might become caviar ,and the sweet sugar corn going for fuel instead us.
We might not get our fuel or our cereal if it keeps up! Ever watch life after people!!LOL Got to have my cereal or it's life after me!!!

Well anyway the soy beans look really good this year.so at least we will have some cooking oil!!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 18, 2012
12:07 PM

Post #9279033

Maybe they can put the soybeans in the gas tanks of the vehicles. Or, maybe we will go back to horse and buggies.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 18, 2012
1:02 PM

Post #9279079

THE use of vegetable material from everything for fuel is being done, leftover grease from the oil from restaurants and fast food bins is where the oil from the vegetables and soybeans is being used.
Cooking oil just has to be hotter to burn as fuel, it is made that way so we do not blow ourselves up house ,oven, and all. But it will and does burn when distilled some and mixed with fuel line cleaner or gas additive especially. For those of you that might try this ,remember that takes filtering and modern engines designed for special fuels.
I have run a car engine using "new" cooking oil mixed with octane booster ,only I had to change my fuel filter a couple of times.
IT not any cheaper but I was not to "in to" the gas line waiting to fill up that were as long as three miles , when I did that!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 18, 2012
1:50 PM

Post #9279138

I can remember my mom telling about my dad converting vehicles to burn things other than gas. He was always coming up with something during the depression. Very ingenious. Had to be then. He invented the windshield wipers but didn't have the money to patent it so had to give it away. Too bad.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 18, 2012
2:21 PM

Post #9279157

Kinda like us hijacking this thread being inventive,I was looking over my Sunchokes they are all small kinda odd they fried in the heat and drought also as they are known for thriving in that.
I have a chipper shredder to finish building I never got that done this season either, that is kinda to this thread because I will be able to mix seed starting mixes with it also. Big ole two hp farm motor and chrome cutter , chopper blade from a digging tool.
That is rather inventive but not to imaginative lol

A carburetor for "Green" oil type fuels is what that part of all that really needs besides the ever running electric motor-engines
Many inventions came from the depression era it is a shame so many that thought them up never made or got a thing from them personally .
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 18, 2012
4:32 PM

Post #9279276

Good for you. Sounds like quite a project. Let us know how it goes.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 18, 2012
6:40 PM

Post #9279410

I always thought of "gasahol" as burning our topsoil. But if it keeps some carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, maybe it's worth it.

I'm guessing that our grandchildren will be asking why it wasn't 100.00% obvious to us that the climate was crashing rapidly during this decade. I just hope we aren't surrounded by desert as they ask.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 19, 2012
12:14 PM

Post #9280218

Well it all goes back unless your using alcohol and oil for top soil. The waste is returned ,and you get to use some of the microbes from production and industry for your earth.!
The "BAD THING"is it all changes air quality no matter what anyone does

If you were in a sealed insulated room ,not particularly airtight you could stiil smother to death from an electric motors burning the air you breathe. Nothing is good in that equation !

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 19, 2012
1:53 PM

Post #9280301

I think the reasoning for gasahol as a way to decrease CO2 is to first assume that we are going to burn huge amounts of carbon in cars no matter what.

In THAT case, it iks worse to pull oil outof the ground and burn it into the air, than it would be to burn modern crop products, release CO2, grow more crops that abosrb rthat CO2, and burn that again in a c ycle.

I suspect that "reasoning" ignores the fact that you probably don't burn more than 10% of a crop as alcohol, and the enrgy cost of producing the alchol, or the fact that cheap crop waste will be used to grow more beef that release more methane ...

And no matter what, it diverts cropland to feed cars in stead of people. And probably degrades the soil due to farming practices that consdier near-term profit over long-term soil destruction.

Just opinion, not even informed opinion.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 19, 2012
2:31 PM

Post #9280324

It an opinion of feasibility and reasoning though; We agree mostly anyway:-)

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 19, 2012
4:12 PM

Post #9280421

In some other forum I suggested that we write our plant labels on cork, and attach them to plants with long strings.

That way, when sea level rises, we won't have to duck our heads under water to see where our plants WERE.


(I live about 1.5 miles from Puget Sound. Maybe 150 feet above current sea level, so I don't actually expect to have wetfeet excpet during tsunamis.)

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 19, 2012
4:59 PM

Post #9280463

Mine were flooded out last spring, Water made it to the foundation and had just started to come in to the cold air return ducts on the floor (of all places to have put those). Shooooweeee!!!! Was that close!!!

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

September 19, 2012
6:58 PM

Post #9280572

Ouch!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 19, 2012
7:12 PM

Post #9280583

Yeah I agree , I am still afraid to look under house!!!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 26, 2012
6:28 PM

Post #9287337

I used some DE seed starter mix with some poppy seeds so far zilch ,zero same mix without has half a dozen seedlings.
#1 IS A FAIL!!!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 26, 2012
9:45 PM

Post #9287554

Juhur7, get some air moving under your house if you haven't already. That is awful. You need to dry it out before it starts rotting your floor joists. Do you have several vents? You better get some and make sure they aren't blocked. Screen until it is dry. Very important. I know you know all this, but just reinforcing your knowledge. Is it warm weather there?

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 26, 2012
9:51 PM

Post #9287557

Rainy ,stormy through drizzle the past three days ,cloudy all the time, it's certainly fall here.
As for rotting floor joists ,too late, Grandma bought the place about 1990, that had already started! Gonna be a real pooper when time comes to reset the main beam structure.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 26, 2012
11:04 PM

Post #9287577

Oh man. What a job. And $$$. Too bad.

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

September 27, 2012
3:36 PM

Post #9288224

It happens, you know.
#1 sprouted last night ,took longer, bigger and stronger than other seedlings
So not a fail!!

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

October 3, 2012
1:37 PM

Post #9294929

You know I still think grinding up red lava rock into the mix is a better idea. Just a thought. (sigh)
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

October 4, 2012
2:55 PM

Post #9295980

What is that for Juhur? You mean for seeds, or for your floor beams?

juhur7

juhur7
Anderson, IN
(Zone 6a)

October 4, 2012
4:47 PM

Post #9296083

Yes i MEANT AS ROUGH SAND IN THE SEED MIX, I know it probably wasn't meant that way but you sound like you have a mean streak in you ,lol
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

October 4, 2012
9:40 PM

Post #9296316

LOL, sorry you took it that way Juhur, I was really teasing you. Guess it fell flat. Jeanette

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