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roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

November 11, 2012
11:04 AM

Post #9330384

At least one of my goldfish is in trouble. Maybe another, not sure yet. Never seen anything like this. The fish is bent on the back 1/3 of it's body and is swimming vertically. Here are a couple pics. It is thew shubunkin not the comet. Thanks for any help!

Thumbnail by roxxanne   Thumbnail by roxxanne   Thumbnail by roxxanne
Click an image for an enlarged view.

Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

November 11, 2012
1:26 PM

Post #9330488

Roxxane

I have seen this a number of times on the internet. I have seen things such as nutritional problems to high levels of nitrates in the water. Is this fish the only one that is bent like this? Have you tested your water? What type of diet do your fish eat? Is this fish a newer fish?

roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

November 11, 2012
1:38 PM

Post #9330493

I've now noticed that there is one comet that looks like he's in the early stages, not bent as badly and seems to still be able to swim ok. He is not a new fish, they have all been here, the newest hve been here for a year and the oldest probably 7 or 8 years at least.
They eat Tetra Pond and I had been feeding them the sping and fall diet. But it's been cold here for a couple weeks so they haven't fed. I have never tested the water because I've never had a problem. I will go out tomorrow morning and get a test kit for the water. Thanks for your quick reply!
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

November 12, 2012
5:06 AM

Post #9330891

I was given a good sized koi that had bent tail. He swam fine but only lived about 4 days. He was hurt during moving my son thinks.
I used to be very rough in handling and moving fish but now I handle them like gold realizing how sick it can make them.
Hope you find out what the problem is. Boy don't these fish come up with odd problems. I'm so paranoid about illnesses I test my water in both ponds frequently.
Bonnie
roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

November 13, 2012
4:32 AM

Post #9331798

I had my water tested and they said it was fine. I took a picture of the fish with me and the man said he had read about this some where once and he couldn't remember the name , but it is a viral infection. No cure and very contagious. He told me to remove the fish immediately and put him to sleep and treat the pond with salt. I removed him and another that looked like the same thing only not so severe, I treated the pond and the 2 fish in a bucket with salt. He told me to put the fish in the freezer, that they would fall asleep then die. I haven't done that yet, but I guess I'll have to. So sad.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

November 13, 2012
7:52 AM

Post #9331988

Roxxanne,
I look at it this way. I don't like to see even a fish suffer so I put them out of their misery ASAP.
I'm sorry you have to do this but I have had to many times and after a while it becomes easier to live with. I have 3 large koi my first boughten 4 years ago and I keep watch on them especially as I really don't want to loose them if I can help it. I hope others in your pond don't get infected.
Have to say I have never heard of this desease and I thought I had had them all.
Bonnie
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

November 13, 2012
8:48 AM

Post #9332025

Roxxane

let us know what happens with the other fish.

It is very hard to lose fish - sometimes it happens in spite of everything we do.

roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

November 14, 2012
4:47 AM

Post #9332753

OK, I'm doing a little investigation . Looks like whirling disease, a parasite. Anyone have any experience?
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

November 14, 2012
9:22 AM

Post #9333019

Roxxane

What little I have read on this states that it is not all that common and deadly to the fish. I have no personal experience on this. Just wondering what parameters are showing 'whirling disease'? Because I have no experience with this, I have no ideas, but am more than curious and would like to learn.

Fish_knees

Fish_knees
Phoenix, AZ

November 15, 2012
5:33 PM

Post #9334230

'whirling disease'? Wow all the years I've had ponds and been on pond forums I have never seen anything like this :(
I have had to euthanize several fish by placing them in a bowl of water in the freezer. They just go dormant as the water gets colder and then it freezes. Good luck, I'll be checking back to see if anyone else has any advice for you.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

November 15, 2012
6:26 PM

Post #9334287

Roxx,
Went to wikipedia and this is what I found.
myxobolus cerebrallis a myzosporean parasite causes whirling desease in farmed salmon, trout and wild fish populations.
In another portion said all fish carry pathogens and parasites and some manifest and become serious and others never show up.
I'm very interested to see what other info. others have found.
Bonnie

Spitzkopf
Nooksack, WA

November 16, 2012
9:53 AM

Post #9334661

I did a little studying up on whirling disease and it appears only to effect salmonids (salmon, trout, and their allies), usually just the fry. Myxobolus cerebralis is a nasty parasite to get rid of once established but must have a 2nd host, an aquatic oligochaete worm, to complete it's life cycle.
http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/ansrp/myxobolus_cerebralis.pdf
Symptoms include blackening of the tail, deformation of head and jaw, bent or twisted tail which cause the the fish to chase it's tail, whirl, until exhausted then sinks to bottom and dies.
Roxxanna if your goldfish meet these symptoms and you are sure whirling disease is the diagnosis I would get the dead fish to the you local Fish & Game Dept or University Aquatic Dept for confirmation because that would indicate the disease has jumped species.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

November 16, 2012
11:28 AM

Post #9334712

I have read in the past that a nutritional deficiency can cause the fish to be bent. I have also read that there could be other things to cause this - however I am not familair with this at all. I am wondering if there are any other symptoms that can tell us which direction to take a look.
Spitzkopf
Nooksack, WA

November 16, 2012
2:08 PM

Post #9334856

I agree Carolyn, bent tail or torso can be other diseases, usually nitrate poisoning and if nitrate level drops too fast it can be even worse on the fish. Whirling disease on the other hand attacks the nervous system of the fish damaging the spine and causing "blacktail". I doubt the latter is the case.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

November 16, 2012
2:27 PM

Post #9334891

Roxxane

Did you get your test kit? I would definitely check your water parameters.

Also, wondering if there is a possible to obtain a swabbing from your fish's gills and take a look at them under a microscope?

Have any more fish become shaped as like your shubunkin?
roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

November 16, 2012
9:44 PM

Post #9335209

I had my water tested at the local fish pet store, btw they had an awesome pond with a huge waterfall and the biggest koi I've ever seen. Anyways, they said the water is perfect. If you google whirling disease goldfish, you'll find that it also occurs in goldfish and the pictures and descriptions fit my fish. The shubunkin has a severe bend but I also have a comet that looks not so severe but also mis-shapen in the same way. I have a video on my phone but I don't know where to upload it to show anyone. I've thought about a necropsy, but I'm not sure where to have that done and I haven't put him to sleep yet.
Take a look at these pics, they look just like my fish
http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=576&q=goldfish whirling disease&oq=goldfish whirling d&gs_l=img.1.0.0i24.2221.17069.0.19574.31.12.6.13.19.0.88.883.12.12.0...0.0...1ac.1.wC03uAXxTqE
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

November 17, 2012
6:10 AM

Post #9335337

Roxxane -

I understand where you are coming from, however, I do think although the possibility of whirling disease is remote, that all possibilites need to be taken into consideration. Are your fish still outside? If so are you feeding them? What are they or have they been fed? How long have you had these fish?

Here is information on the nutrituional aspect. The photos look the same to me as in Whirling Disease.http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseases/vitamin_deficiencies/

Another thing to consider is this problem could also be genetic. The 2 fish you have that are having this problem could be from the one or both of the same parentage.

I do think that treatment should encompass all aspects. I am glad your water was tested so we can rule out nitrates as a problem.

BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

December 10, 2012
4:22 PM

Post #9355032

Roxxanne,
I was wondering what happened to your fish?? I'm assuming they died. Right?
Talked to one pro fish keeper and he said it was a rare desease. I thought my fish had had everything they could get last spring when I lost so many but we missed that desease thank heavens.
Bonnie
roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

December 15, 2012
5:02 AM

Post #9358733

I have the two isolated and should put them to sleep but I just can't bring myself to do it. They look the same. I added some extra salt to their water, but it didn't do any good. I wonder if there is somewhere where I can have a necropsy, and is it even worth it?
Carolyn
I don't feed our fish this time of the year. And they are 2 types of fish bought several years apart.

Makes me sad.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 15, 2012
6:20 AM

Post #9358799

Roxxane

I don't feed my fish this time of year either, however I was wondering what the fish were fed generally speaking. I have read where the turning of the spine can be caused by nutritional deficencies. I have a fish that has a bit of turn to him - he has always been that way and does not seem to be in any pain. I think my fish's issue is genetic as we bought him when he was just a couple of inches and has always been this way. He is the only one like this.

Check out the fish on the far left. This fish appears to be looking to the right, but he is always like that with a slight curve.


Thumbnail by Carolyn22
Click the image for an enlarged view.

MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

December 15, 2012
8:38 AM

Post #9358890

Many fish are born that way, it usually has to do with temperature fluctuations during the egg development, which is only a few days long. Most bent spines and fin abnormalities are from that. Disease causes it to happen later in life.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

December 15, 2012
7:48 PM

Post #9359507

I can't look at any animal that is deformed. Once we had a calf born with feet that turned under and it walked I'll say on its ankles what it could manage. I told my husb. to either put it down or I would. Thats not easy to do with something as big as a calf but I just couldn't watch it fall around.
If the fish aren't suffering and can swim around and eat guess it's ok but things like that really bother me. I wouldn't make a real god farmer I guess.
I wouldn't think there would be a cure for that desease or is there.
Bonnie
roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

December 16, 2012
6:54 AM

Post #9359695

No there's no cure but I keep hoping I'm wrong. They ate Tetra :Pond Spring and Fall and in the summer Tetra Pond Variety sticks. That's all I ever fed them. My pond has been there for about 8 years and this is the first time I've had a provlem.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

December 16, 2012
6:20 PM

Post #9360210

Ya know...no matter what...No matter how hard we try to keep things exaclty correct...things still happen. It's not because we're horrible pond people...it's just because things happen. Go to PetSmart and look at their tanks. You'll see a dead fish every 3rd tank...for no apparent reason. We forget, that animals, like people, just have different expiration dates, and it isn't because somebody did something wrong, it's just because "it is...". Once we all get to that understanding, it makes it easier to deal with. And yep...this morning I had to put a 16 inch, beautiful butterly koi, under the tangerine tree to fertilize it. No clue why.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

December 17, 2012
2:55 PM

Post #9360895

Mary

I have had that happen as well. One day the fish was fine and swimming around and the next day, that same fish was at the bottom of the pond - dead with no reason as to why. I have heard koi farmers say the same thing - sometimes it just happens.

BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

December 20, 2012
6:37 AM

Post #9362890

I've adopted a new motto: enjoy them while they live and go on when they die.
Mary I love your analogy of expiration date: so true.
Temp. here in Clermont at 9AM 69. We are supposed to be going cooler closer to weekend well this is Thurs. but thats ok with me. When it gets real cold I haul out all the landscape blanketing and put it around everything I can cover.
Have a good weekend all.
Bonnie
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

March 5, 2013
7:14 AM

Post #9439382

Hi Rossanne,
How did your fish get along or are they gone? Just curious. You taught us all a new lesson and for that I appreciate your sharing.

Bonnie
roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

May 1, 2013
1:41 PM

Post #9504390

My fish are still alive. I put them in a large bucket with an air tube and stone in my garage, for the winter. I just don't have the heart to kill them. I think I'm going to make a small pond just for them and let them live out their life
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

May 1, 2013
4:46 PM

Post #9504574

Glad they are still alive.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 2, 2013
4:05 AM

Post #9505033

Good idea to keep them seperate from other fish. Doesn't sound like it's something that can spread tho.

Bonnie
roxxanne
Houston, PA
(Zone 6a)

May 3, 2013
4:30 AM

Post #9506284

From what I've read when they die they release millions of spores into the water. I'm not taking any chances.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 3, 2013
6:53 AM

Post #9506484

Good idea. I'm so thankful you shared this info. with us. Fish seem like people. New diseases get diagnosed all the time and they try to come up with a cure. It's a good money making business.

Bonnie

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