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Plant Identification: gaillardia type flowers on a four foot tall shrub

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Forum: Plant IdentificationReplies: 24, Views: 235
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garden18
Sherman Oaks, CA

November 25, 2012
3:05 PM

Post #9342223

Please help identify this plant. Gaillardia look alike flowers on a robust shrub. What is it?

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tlm1
Jacksonville, FL
(Zone 9a)

November 25, 2012
3:31 PM

Post #9342243

Dahlia?
singhg45
Delhi
India

November 25, 2012
3:32 PM

Post #9342244

I hope Gaillardia aristata 'Indian Yellow'
tlm1
Jacksonville, FL
(Zone 9a)

November 25, 2012
3:35 PM

Post #9342248

Do Gaillardias really get that tall? 4 ft. sounds really huge to me.
Paperdaisy
Sydney
Australia

November 25, 2012
4:45 PM

Post #9342302

Huisache-daisy or Amblyolepis setigera?
nel5397
Groveland, FL

November 25, 2012
6:36 PM

Post #9342443

it could be a helianthus or heliopsis of some kind.
garden18
Sherman Oaks, CA

November 25, 2012
6:50 PM

Post #9342471

This is a real conundrum. It is a robust shrub, 4 feet tall by 4 feet wide. I have studied Heliopsis and Helianthus images and none of the flowers quite match the ones on this plant, which most closely resemble Gaillardia except that Gaillardia is a ground cover!
garden18
Sherman Oaks, CA

November 25, 2012
7:24 PM

Post #9342516

Note the three-fingered petal margins. Very peculiar!
spoonlegs
Cottage Grove, OR
(Zone 8a)

November 25, 2012
9:17 PM

Post #9342616

How about Helenium autumnale (Sneezeweed)?
http://www.gatewaygardens.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=170

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

November 25, 2012
9:56 PM

Post #9342636

More pics here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1288961/
You can reply to your own thread and post them here.

H autumnale petals and overall size sound right.
garden18
Sherman Oaks, CA

November 26, 2012
2:35 AM

Post #9342675

I am beginning to think this is a hybrid on account of its often saggitate (triangular) foliage, which means it could not be a Helenium, whose foliage is always lanceolate. Flowers are close to Helenium type but I still see a difference.

Thumbnail by garden18   Thumbnail by garden18         
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altagardener
Calgary, AB
(Zone 3b)

November 26, 2012
5:21 AM

Post #9342718

Looks like Heliopsis helianthoides - the leaves would have to be opposite, if so; can't quite make it out from the photos. Definitely not Helenium.

Edit: I see you put additional photos in another thread. Can you get a good photo to show whether the leaves are opposite or alternate, and add it here by replying to the last message?



This message was edited Nov 26, 2012 6:33 AM
singhg45
Delhi
India

November 26, 2012
7:42 AM

Post #9342823

Yes after seeing the additional photographs, Helenium and Gaillardia seem to be out of picture, and Heliopsis helianthoides seems to be the logical choice. Although rays are generally narrow in heliopsis helianthoides, but 3-toothed broader rays are frequently seen in some cultivars.
vngarden
Seattle, WA

November 26, 2012
4:40 PM

Post #9343260

Verbesina encelioides?
DVME
Tampa, FL

November 26, 2012
7:57 PM

Post #9343458

Maybe False Sunflower

Thumbnail by DVME
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sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

November 26, 2012
8:07 PM

Post #9343468

I like the Heliopsis helianthoides/ False sunflower guess, by leaf appearance. If I recall correctly- the ray flowers of Heliopsis will have a stamen attached?
steadycam3
Houston Heights, TX
(Zone 9a)

November 26, 2012
8:11 PM

Post #9343471

Looks like Verbesina enceloides to me. The blue-ish cast to the leaves and the shape of the leaves all match.
DVME
Tampa, FL

November 26, 2012
9:11 PM

Post #9343499

I thinks it's the rough Heliopsis
vngarden
Seattle, WA

November 26, 2012
9:18 PM

Post #9343503

here is the link to Verbesina enceliodes:

http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1259&bih=586&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=verbesina+encelioides&oq=verbesina+encelioides&gs_l=img.12...0.0.6.6674.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1c.3IUSCoiRrY8&pbx=1
singhg45
Delhi
India

November 26, 2012
10:04 PM

Post #9343519

Thanks vngarden and steadycam3
You finally nailed the ID and reminded me that I had already photographed and got identified it in my another forum efloraofindia, photographed from India. I am attaching the same
Verbesina encelioides from Near Panchkula, Haryana, India




Thumbnail by singhg45
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steadycam3
Houston Heights, TX
(Zone 9a)

November 26, 2012
11:26 PM

Post #9343533

Singh, there is only one lonely photo in DG plant files, would you consider posting your lovely shot to the plant files? This goes to you, too, garden18. will you post to plant files? I have some seed photos Im planning to post after seeing there is only one photo there.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

November 27, 2012
7:27 AM

Post #9343675

For the sake of --let's not say argument edification,-- how can we tell apart the Heliopsis from the Verbesina?
altagardener
Calgary, AB
(Zone 3b)

November 27, 2012
8:50 AM

Post #9343738

For one, Verbesina enceliodes has leaves "all or mostly alternate" - see details here:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242417424

Heliopsis helianthoides has all opposite leaves.
singhg45
Delhi
India

November 27, 2012
9:35 AM

Post #9343778

I think the simplest is Heliopsis helianthoides with leaves opposite, broader and regularly toothed, in Verbesina encelioides atleast upper leaves alternate, narrower and unequally toothed,

http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=57503&flora_id=1

http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=57509&flora_id=1

In addition on technical side the ray florets persist for a longer time and become papery in Helopsis, whereas they fall off earlier in Verbesina.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

November 27, 2012
4:42 PM

Post #9344118

Thanks!

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