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List of seed varieties to keep away from

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

Home Garden Veggies in the Monsanto/Seminis Catalogue

I posted this yesterday in Organic Gardening forum. I do feel it is important to share it around:

I did find this information.

http://www.agardenforthehouse.com/2012/02/forewarned-is-fore...

I am keeping a copy of the list on me at all the times to avoid buying any of their varieties. I do not want any of them in my garden.

cristina

Warrenton, VA

Horrid. Not YOU, the EXTENSIVE list! I cannot thank you enough for providing this, especially as it is time to ponder my 2013 garden..and proper planning takes so much time...
So, thank you again, Cristina - you're the "Bees Knees!"

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

Some very good varieties on that list. No vegetables are GMO. Some sweet corn varieties are, but you need to buy hundreds of pounds of it or they won't sell it to you.

WalMart sells seeds that I wouldn't buy on a bet. Who knows where they came from. Are you going to stop shopping there ?
Get real, this is 2012 not the dark ages.

Monsanto probably owns some of the medicines you take, especially for common cold!

Richland, WA(Zone 7b)

Thanks, Country Gardens- I was concerned reading that list because I am counting on Big Beef being my #1 next year, and saw it on the list. In my opinion, that is comparable to boycotting a company for one thing, but that same company is in bed with so many others that it is impossible to isolate anything any more.The world is just too full of scares lately, and although I plan to use my common sense in as much as I can, I refuse to be bullied by paranoia.

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

Many of these varieties are OLDER than Monsanto so there is NO WAY they were developed by them. Guess what? not everything you read on the internet is true!

Madison, AL(Zone 7b)

I don't think the OP is necessarily concerned Monsanto developed any of those varieties, she just doesn't want to support them with her money. That's totally legitimate, but as others have said, it's a complicated issue. Unless you grow ALL your own food, you really can't get away from putting money in their pockets, from anything with corn, soy, sugar beets or cotton. Because of corn and soy, that means buying meat also benefits them.

Monsanto also owns the Cargill, Dekalb, Holdens, De Ruiters seed companies, and their numerous regional subsidiaries. Monsanto no longer is in the pharmeceutical business or rBGH (Pfizer bought them out).

Hobart, IN

Thanks, cristina, for posting the link. Buying from reputable seed companies (like Baker) also helps. (And I refuse to shop at Walmart.)

Warrenton, VA

CindyMzone5 - I don't shop at Walmart or Costco. But I am a bonafide Trader Joe's Shopper! NicoleC = thanks for the information. You make a great point as well! Callalily - I did not see anywhere where it was stated that Monsanto developed the varieties, but I may have missed something! Country and Jo, thank you! I, too, appreciate information and try to be a responsible consumer, but, as was once pointed out to me, "You are responsible for your own ignorance."
So that is what I try to do - eliminate as much ignorance in my life as possible!

Westbrook, CT(Zone 6a)

Read through the comments under that link. Some are rabidly opposed to buying anything from Monsanto either because (1) they are developing GMO corn seeds or (2) they have poor labor practices. Some point out problems with the list not addressed by the original poster. Anyone is entitled to shun a company they disapprove of, especially if because of (2), but there is much misinformation about (1).

Many of the varieties listed are heirloom or open pollinated and were developed long before artificial gene-modification was even thought of. (Natural mutations also modify genes.)

Even if Monsanto genetically modifies one of these garden varieties whose trademark they presumably now own (and the probability is small because the cost involved would be prohibitive except in seeds intended for the large farm market) wouldn't they have to change the name to avoid confusion and to prevent others selling competing products under the same name?

I normally buy OP seed from companies that are privately owned, and am not going to turn my back on a variety because a company owned by Monsanto also sells it. If I am ever tempted to buy a hybrid whose trademark is owned by a Monsanto company, I will balance its benefits against the apparent drawbacks in (2) before making my decision.

Durhamville, NY(Zone 5b)

Very well put DonShirer. It's basically how I go about it.

Vista, CA

Don, I am glad to read some reasoned, non-hysterical comments about this. It distresses me, that so many people have so much animosity towards large Corporations, when those corporations contribute so much to our high standards of living. Walmart provides good steady jobs for over a million employees, and while i do not like walking a half mile and then look for a half hour to buy something, which is why i do not trade there, i am sure if i was a a single mother raising several kids, i would appreciate the low prices they charge. Monsanto has also developed many products that have made our lives better and also provided good jobs for many people. So people should not buy specific products they choose not to, but i do not see any reason to condemn the entire operation. Corporations are owned by many investors, some small and some large, and they are all run by hired hands, not faceless aliens.

I have been a small businessman, but never had any animosity towards my larger competitors, and do think they contribute a lot to our economy.

Ernie

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

I live right in the "corn belt". If not for Monsanto & GMO corn & soybean seeds, the world may be very hungry. That technology has added at least 50 bushels per acre to corn & 15 bushels to soybeans. Just multiply that by the thousands of acres of each to see how much food would not be avaiable.
There is a shortage of both right now because of dry conditions. How short would it be without this technology.

Vista, CA

CG, I remember when Wallace began working trying much simpler methods of plant breeding to improve Corn Production, after WW2, there were people complaining and worrying about what he was doing. I think humans have been trying to improve plant production as long as they have been growing it.

Ernie

Magnolia, TX(Zone 8b)

Choices, what I have always loved the privilege of. Isn't there something in DG policies about leaving political incite to riot out of the forums?

Liberty Hill, TX(Zone 8a)

Too many inconsistances to even bother. Ever so often this link shows up on DG, anyone who is interested can do a search of DG and you should get hits.

Under peppers it shows Habanero, how many different Habs are there out there? I didn't know O/Ps were trademarked. There are so many seed companies that if somebody wants to stay away from Monsantos it shouldn't be hard, but I wouldn't rely on this list for my guidelines.

Richland, WA(Zone 7b)

I agree- I think just use your common sense- I certainly will not eliminate varieties that I have planned just because of the hype. Our society is fast becoming one of "be afraid--be very afraid"---

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

A member of my immediate family is one of the VPs of Cargill so I can tell you Monsanto does not own Cargill, they have formed a partnership, a joint venture to develop genetically modified feed products.
Monsanto owns Seminis seeds.
Cargill is not into developing vegetable seeds for the home gardener, their business is all about big agriculture, mostly corn and soybeans.

Liberty Hill, TX(Zone 8a)

Thanks for clearing that up. I think 1 of the biggest misconceptions, regardless how an individual feels about Monsantos, is that their GMOs are not available to the general public (home gardener).


Also, Monsantos may hold the patent on some of the popular hybrid seeds that are sold by many companies, this doesn't mean they own part of the business. Many seed companies offer these seeds bc they are very popular and sell well, however these are hybrid seeds not GMOs.

Vista, CA

Plant Genetics often get modified, naturally, which accounts for dozens or hundreds of different varieties of plants and trees of the same species. I do not know how the Laboratories do it deliberately, but there has not been any harm done by the natural modifications. If they are not superior to the old ones, no one wants to grow them.

While propagating Flowering Crab Apples, we had a natural modification that was much superior than the parent variety, healthier, faster growing, prettier, etc,. just everything as growers we would like to have in our garden. It is becoming very popular in the industry. We also found a few that were not any better so we did not bother with those.

So, since i do not know what the harm is, if any, can someone tell me what all the concern and fuss about is about?

Ernie

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

There are always those that will go against anything to stir up a contaversary.

Vista, CA

CG.
You are surely right about that, but some of the posts indicate a fear of the GMO, so that led me to wonder why. or what the negatives are.

Ernie

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

Nobody have proved that they cause a problem of any kind.

At one time we had two vendors at our Farmers Market that grew things organic. Belittled people that farmed conventionaly. Big kicker, both smoked like fiens, even while they were selling. One died young, the other finally quit smoking.

People should look at themselves before critizing others.

sun city, CA(Zone 9a)

in spite of all you say that is pro monsanto-they are single handlely responsible for the decline of the bee population(roundup). i personally do not want to eat corn that is bred to blow up the stomachs of the insects that prey on it. if it not so bad, why are so many countries banning gmos? why did monsanto pay millions to defeat a bill requiring them to be labeled in calif?

Vista, CA

RC,
Roundup apparently does not kill bees. It is not an insecticide. I spray roundup within 4 feet of a beehive, and the bees have increased tremendously in the two years i have lived here.

I was also pleased to notice today how many mason bees and possibly some honeybees, were working the blooms on the buckwheat. Insecticides, do of course, kill bees, but i do not think Roundup kills honey bees.

The Honeybee population has been severely decimated, at least in the Western States, by different diseases or parasites of the bees, and unless the Chemical companies can come up with a chemical that can kill that pest or disease, the future for honey bees looks pretty bleak.

A wise old doctor told me one time that there was a little bit of poison in every prescription drug he prescribed, and it was the poison that made them effective. It is really a complicated world we live in.

Ernie

Liberty Hill, TX(Zone 8a)

Just a side note, Bt ( which is a certified organic pesticide) works by messing up the digestive tract of the catapilers that eat it so they starve to death. But it is Organic.

Ernie-GMOs are created in a laboratory, genes are inserted that could not be done by nature. It has nothing to do with natural selection, random mutations or hybridization. What you described in your above post is what I would consider hybridizing. But GMOs are created in a lab at the molecular level.

The main place consumers will find GMOs is in the grain section of their supermarket. I too, would like the products I buy to be labeled GMO or not. I feel that we all have the right to make that choice on our own.

Madison, AL(Zone 7b)

Quote from ERNIECOPP :
Plant Genetics often get modified, naturally, which accounts for dozens or hundreds of different varieties of plants and trees of the same species. I do not know how the Laboratories do it deliberately, but there has not been any harm done by the natural modifications. If they are not superior to the old ones, no one wants to grow them.

So, since i do not know what the harm is, if any, can someone tell me what all the concern and fuss about is about?


GMO's are genetic crosses across species' and sometimes phyla. The infamous (and now defunct) "Flavr Savr" tomato used genetic material from E.coli and inserted it into tomato DNA. Bt corn is bacterial DNA inserted into corn. "Golden rice" has carrot DNA inserted into rice DNA. There's a frost-resistant tomato that has flounder genes.

This is an entirely different process than conventional breeding, where plants of the same species are crossed to produce new varieties or hybrids. These crosses are generally done under controlled conditions but are essentially the same thing as if the two varieties crossed without assistance. You are never going to see a fish and a tomato breed.

Why is it a big deal? Potential health concerns are as yet unproven, but to be fair they are also virtually unstudied, and the few studies there are are not well structured. From an environmental standpoint, GMO plants can still cross with non-GMO plants. This is especially a problem with rape and corn. There are NO long term studies on the effect that may have on wild populations and the health of the gene pool but it has certainly had deleterious effects on farmer's downwind of GMO fields, particularly organic farmers who lose the value of their crop when it becomes tainted with GMO pollen. We know farmed salmon escape their pens and have severely damaged wild salmon stocks with diseases and parasites, as yet we're going to release new genetically modified salmon in those same pens because they can be "contained?"

Finally, there are allergy concerns. Doctor's don't know what causes food allergies in individuals. I personally have a life-threatening food allergy. You stick DNA from an onion into an unrelated food and I *could* have an allergic reaction. Or not. There's no way to tell, the product is not labelled and it's not tested for safety.

No one can say one way or the other if GMOs are safe for mass consumption and for the health of critical world food crops. That in itself *is* the big deal -- the general public is unwittingly part of a giant bioassay test.

Personally, I think there is great promise in genetic engineering for medicines and... possibly... for food crops. But I think these crops need to be grown in clean-room lab conditions and carefully studied for safety instead of letting the genie out of the bottle willy nilly hoping nothing bad happens.

Vista, CA

I must have not made myself clear. We were not crossbreeding or hybrizing the trees.
We were cloning by bud grafting established cultivars. All were identical clones, except very rarely, something would happen during the bud grafting to cause a genetic mutation.

If the resulting tree was not superior to the established cultivar, it was not saved. I am sure they discard many failures, and only market the improved GMO plants, too. It would be financial suicide for any of them to market harmful products, so that led to my query as to why it seems to scare some people so much.

Thanks for taking time to thoroughly discuss this.

Ernie

Monte Vista, CO(Zone 4a)

I definitely believe in freedom of choice. I haven't eaten mayonnaise in years, due to the G-M-O soybean oil, nor corn on the cobb. Cottonseed oil is especially dangerous because the use of pesticides are not regulated as a food product. I purchase organic cornmeal from our local food coop, and elk meat or grass fed beef. The first time I purchased meat from the local elk ranch, I asked if the animals were finished with corn. She said no, and that people who order (from all over the US) meat from them are concerned about feeding corn before slaughter, due to allergies they've developed. I wish everyone would do deep research on this issue, as it is an issue that doesn't stop with our plates, the ge crops contaminate surrounding crops, and eventually, unchecked, there will be no more choice in what we can grow. It's in the beef, chicken, and other meats in grocery stores because they're corn-fed. We want freedom of choice, not monopolies in our food. I believe in innovation, but this one is deadly.

Dr. Mercola and Dr. Huber discuss this in a great video, here, http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/10/dr-don-huber-interview-part-1.aspx

Here are some articles:
http://gmo.mercola.com/sites/gmo/scientific-studies.aspx

Decade-Long Feeding Study Reveals Significant Health Hazards of Genetically Engineered Foods
Article here, http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/08/07/genetically-engineered-foods-hazards.aspx

It will probably drastically reduce population due to sterilization of those who eat G-M-O foods, the article with Dr. Mercola is here, http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/22/jeffrey-smith-interview-april-24.aspx

I hope society can get back to the basics we were given "in the beginning" - the healing foods and herbs available to us, knowing what heals what almost became a lost art, but there's a movement afoot - we just need to do the research for ourselves and our families, lest we "perish for lack of knowledge."

I want a choice and a label on it so I can avoid them. Freedom of choice. Better yet, they should be outlawed.

This message was edited Dec 9, 2012 4:34 AM

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

All these articles are by the same company. Who are they ?

Hobart, IN

I had heard some numbers recently about the increased use of herbicides such as Roundup, linked to growing more Roundup-ready GMO crops. Can't believe that (if true) the increase is good for the environment. Agree with Nicole that there should have been more tests before unleashing GMOs and related issues into the environment with no thought of how to correct any mistakes (impossible?).

sun city, CA(Zone 9a)

http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/studies-link-pesticides-to-plunging-bee-populations/

roundup is directly linked to the decline in the bee population- do some research- that is just one of hundreds of articles that back this up.

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

What kind of bull is that article?
nicotine is an organic pesticide, I believe.
The best part of the article is the first comment from a reader.

Vista, CA

I absolutely agree that everyone has the right to make all of their own choices, and i am not trying to change any minds, i am just looking for information.

Where is the negative evidence? Lawyers are starving to death and a large part of the advertising on TV is from Law Firms looking for reasons to sue large corporations. When a few people get sick from eating bad hamburger or peanut butter, it makes big news, but i have not seen one bit of mainstream news about people actually being damaged by GMO food.

And to the person that believes Roundup is a major factor in Bee deaths, my actual personal experience has been directly contrary to that. I used Roundup on my Nursery, and i agree it diminished the bee fodder by killing dandelions and Canadian Thistle, but that surely increased flowering tree blossoms by many times the amount, and a local beekeeper was very glad to have the opportunity to keep many hives of the property, knowing i used Roundup. The same situation on a smaller scale is right here. My neighbor has a beehive about 3 feet from the fence line that i spray with Roundup, and the flowers and other plant blossoms i grow has increased the bee activity around his hive several fold.

I would like to see contrary evidence from an unbiased source on this matter, because i certainly do not want to harm or decimate Pete's Bee population.

Ernie

sun city, CA(Zone 9a)

http://www.infowars.com/monsanto-launches-damage-control-over-gmocancer-study/

studies show gmo corn causes cancer

if you read the studies on the declining bee population you will see that roundup is directly attributable, not that it kills bees instantly, but that the long standing effects of roundup on bee's food sources is causing declines in populations. monsanto's solution: buy the research company that proved this to shut it up.
you might also want to research the effect of roundup on groundwater.

you might also want to research how many countries thoughout the world have banned monsantos gmo corn

they all cant be wrong.

all i am saying is be informed.

monsanto is now trying to get a corn on the market that cant be killed by agent orange. who the heck needs something like that?














Vista, CA

RC,
I respect your opinions, but as hungry as the Media is for news, and as hungry as the lawyers are for provable cases, why don't we hear more about it?

We have had so many dire situations, that have turned out to be false alarms, I no longer know what to believe. I am sure you recall the DDT scare, when it caused the Pelicans to lay eggs with soft shells. The alarm was raised, and DDT was banned, and then they found out DDT actually did much more good than harm, as it saved babies lives in Africa by killing the Malaria carrying mosquitoes, so now they are using it again.

It may well be that you are correct in believing GMO is harmful, but with no deadly evidence yet, it seems to me to be too soon to judge or condemn it, until we have had time to compare the actual, not perceived, harm, to the benefits.

As the World's population continues to explode, we are going to have to produce a lot more food from the same amount of acreage, and while not every attempt will succeed, the ones that do will be much appreciated.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your opinion and the information,
Ernie

sun city, CA(Zone 9a)

you dont hear about it cause monsanto is very good at damage control

think about this: monsantos gmo corn is banned is many countries around the world.
gmos in general are banned more and more in other countries around the world.

if there is nothing wrong with gmos why did monsanto pay $18,000,000 to fight prop 37 in calif that would have made labeling gmos mandatory. if there is nothing wrong with gmos why not label them?
what is monsanto hiding?

check out occupy monsanto, gmo free, and many other world wide movements to ban gmos.

just google "list of countries that ban gmos"

in the usa, sad to say, money can buy anything.
monsanto is buying up seed companys at an alarming rate.

do you even know about the "safe seed pledge" that companies adhere to to fight gmos?

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

Why are some people so opposed to companies that are making the world better ? Would you like to see more famines like they have in Africa ?
I personally like eat. How will I eat if you ban food ?
I noticed in your last article a link to world ending soon. Why not get on a highhorse to stop that. It is more pressing.
Do you smoke ? Do you drink ?
They will get you before GMO corn.
How about medicine ? Someone mentioned posion in medicine. Yes I take it everyday, for my heart health.
Millions of people will die before GMO's kill the world.

Monte Vista, CO(Zone 4a)

Everyone, please do the research on your own, here are some terms to google and read first hand accounts and research that's already coming forth. It is not safe to assume anything is safe until you research it yourself.
Start with searching "GMO dangers" and go from there.

Monsanto has spent years building their brand with beautiful and family-friendly-sounding television ads. This has caused many to not see what they're doing, because they've succeeded in making people trust their brand. It's falling apart on them now, though. When you build trust, you'd better not break that trust, and they have.

The reason you don't see "GMO killing animals and making humans sterile" type stories on mainstream news is because most of the large news corporations have accepted government stimulus money and many of the Monsanto executives are now entrenched in the FDA and many other organizations - it all boils down to money. The company gives probably millions in campaign and public 'service' donations each year, in addition to lobbying in their own behalf.

Don't ever trust mainstream media to give you the real news, or the whole news. It's all about money, now. It's not about doing good things for people. I spent many years as a news reporter, and believe me, it doesn't matter who it hurts, if there's money to be made on gmo seeds and industries, pharmaceuticals, etc. The world is not the one my grandparents knew. It is a corrupt system but you can be armed with knowledge if you do the research. I hope everyone will. Maybe you can't change the world with your knowledge, but you can be prepared for the future.

Monte Vista, CO(Zone 4a)

Here's an easy to read document on myths vs. truths about G-M-O
http://www.nongmoproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/GMO_Myths_and_Truths_1.31.pdf

Thumbnail by Solace
Pueblo, CO(Zone 5b)

I have only taken a quick look at this but I was under the impression that the main concern with GM crops is the potential for accidently hybridizing with nearby non-GM crops. This would be bad for an organic farmer, of course, but a bigger concern is loss of genetic diversity. So you really wouldn't want to grow anything GM in the area that a plant was originally native from. So corn would be more of a corncern in North America than soy.

Roundup - I hadn't heard that roundup hurts bees, but I could see where it would indirectly if used to gid rid of bee forage. One of the advantages of Roundup is that it goes inert fairly quickly. I heard that it does this by binding with metals - so if you had iron-poor soil, it could make it worse. I was concerned about what happens when it binds with heavy metals in aquatic situations - if something happened to cause the chemical bonds to break down, could you suddenly get a spike in heavy metals? I couldn't find a good answer to that question.

Personally, I avoid using anything that ends in "-cide", especially insecticides - even if the product is "Organic". I am more careless with fertilizers that do not contain pesticides - I don't care whether they are organic or not. I try to encourage bees and beneficial insects, but I have to confess, I have used "Raid" on crevasses near my house that were serving as Black Widow condominiums. I didn't like doing it, but the poison spider situation was getting out of hand. I have more native Wolf spiders now.

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