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Seed Germination: Here goes... Pretreatment: Starting the first seeds for 2013

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

December 12, 2012
3:12 AM

Post #9356178

In the last 2 years I've been on DG, I have learned half a lifetime's worth of seed starting techniques. I've had great success with the Deno Method, also called the baggie method, putting the seeds in damp folded paper towels inside ziplocks, then either chilling the seeds or not, depending on individual needs. Since I'm leaving Friday for 2 weeks, it's good timing to get started on the first batch of perennials, the ones that take the longest to germinate. The house is closed for the winter so Winter Sowing is not an option, and I have limited space in my city apartment. Deno is perfect.

Here's my list, after searching various sources and my past records:

Long Cold:
Agastache Cana - C, germ slow
Aquilegia: C, could be several months
Eupatorium auromatica Joicus Variegated: C 8-10 wks, switch to W to germ in 5-7d
Scabiosa ochroleuca: C irreg, slow, could be several months

Long Warm:
Astrantia- W 2-4 wks,
Alchemilla: W 2-4 wks, then Freeze 4 wks, move to frig to germ
Eryngium giganteum: W 2-4weeks, Freeze 4-6 wks, move to frig to germ
Helianthus: C 12 wks, W for germ.
Penstemon Palmerii: W fresh seed, C saved seed, 8 wks
Salvia Azurea- W, slow

I'll be keeping some seeds untreated for backup in case, and to try out other methods and see how they compare.
All input is most welcome from anyone with different ideas and experiences.

Thanks!

Pam
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

December 12, 2012
3:33 AM

Post #9356183

Here are the links to my main sources:

http://theseedsite.co.uk/
Contains a synopsis of and links to the works of Norman Deno, as well as a detailed database.

Another good source, extremely extensive database:
http://tomclothier.hort.net/page02.html

One more:
http://www.robsplants.com/seed/baggy.php

I also keep a garden journal of my own efforts and results, or lack of them, and a file that I add to whenever I see a good tip. I have charts, lists, etc.


Txtea
Fabens, TX
(Zone 8a)

December 12, 2012
4:51 AM

Post #9356200

Thanks for this information I know I will find it very useful.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

December 12, 2012
11:35 AM

Post #9356457

Hi Pam,
Well, I already have hundreds of seeds in seed trays. First I check online for information on individual seeds and bag them as Fall, Spring, in trays and in the garden. My basic method is storing all seed in the frig. then, in Fall, putting them in cell trays on a heat pad w/humidity domes for a few weeks. I remove any that germinate immediately to 4' pots. Then the trays go out to the greenhouse for a few weeks and then back on the heat. After that I move them to the greenhouse permanently. Sometimes I'll get germination out of the slow pokes that way. I usually keep some back-up seed too. That way I can try again in Spring if they don't go. I wish I could do more outside - but the birds are ravenous in my yard. I have crazy daisy, gaillardia, salvia pratensis, salvia sclarea, genetian sage, veronica spicata, hardenbergia, crotillaria, stokesia alba, penstemon, and echium wildprettii and a few others that have already sprouted! If I have too much success I'm going to have to sell some at the Farmer's Market again this year, LOL.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

December 12, 2012
12:42 PM

Post #9356503

Lucky you to have a greenhouse! Also zone 9b is really different from 5b, although it sounds like you have your own challenges in addition to weather. That's quite a success rate... Great looking stand! I hope you make back some of your expenses!

My seedlings can't go outside before March 30, which is when we plan to re-open the house. It still gets pretty cold then, daffodils are just beginning to show green, so the hardiest ones will get hardened off in a mini greenhouse at first. Then it's a steady pipeline off seedlings getting pushed from the house to that, then under frost blankets, then finally into the garden with no protection by late May/early June. By then DH is very happy to get the plants out of his way!

lanakila

lanakila
Holly Springs, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 12, 2012
4:57 PM

Post #9356765

The books of Norman Deno are in the Public Domain so they are free for download.

Seed germination, theory and practice
http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/catalog/41278

First supplement to the second edition of Seed germination theory and practice
http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/catalog/41279

Second supplement to Seed germination theory and practice
http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/catalog/41277

If these links fail, go to the USDA National Agricultural Library Digital Collections and search for Author 'Deno, N.C.'

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

December 14, 2012
8:40 PM

Post #9358645

lanakia are these files only available as a download?

lanakila

lanakila
Holly Springs, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 15, 2012
7:43 AM

Post #9358852

The books aren't printed anymore, so you either have to find a copy available on ebay or such, or download them. They are PDF documents, so you could print them but the main book is about 250 pages.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

December 15, 2012
12:28 PM

Post #9359118

lol..yikes..250 pages. I don't have a printer so that leaves me out...will look at ebay. Was hoping it was available to be opened and looked at as reference material but I guessed wrong.

lanakila

lanakila
Holly Springs, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 15, 2012
12:39 PM

Post #9359129

You can only open it if you download it. If you'll pay the postage, I can print it for you.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

December 15, 2012
12:49 PM

Post #9359135

Sure, that'[s a wonderful offer, Thanks. Any idea what postage might run, shipping the cheapest way? Just a ballpark...lol. What a great idea to include in my Gardening Library. One day I may have to get some pix of all the books I have...lol...

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lanakila

lanakila
Holly Springs, NC
(Zone 7b)

December 16, 2012
2:57 PM

Post #9360062

Looks like it'll be $5.15. Let me know if that's what you want to do and I'll get it printed and out this week. It'll make for great reading in between the holiday hubbub!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

December 17, 2012
6:03 PM

Post #9361059

Oh wonderful, should I ship you a check?
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

December 29, 2012
3:19 PM

Post #9370066

I got back Thursday night, and went straight to my baggies. To my amazement, I had some sprouts! And 2 out of 3 were huge surprises.

I had potting mix but no seed starting, so I filled 4" pots 2/3 with what I had, then sifted the big particles out and filled another 1/2" or so, and kept some to add after planting if necessary. I mixed 10:1 water:peroxide and added 1 drop of Superthrive. Once planted I put the pots in a propagator to make sure the top of the soil doesn't dry out, and have misted every day at least a couple of times. So far, they are doing well.

The Salvia was not a surprise; Clothier said 2 weeks, and 2 weeks it was, but the sprouts were 1-2" long. They were also embedded in the paper towels. I extricated some, others I cut apart and planted with the paper, sticking a pencil down into the soil to make the hole, then gently nudging the root down. Some broke, I ended up with 10. Plenty.
The Campanula also had germinated enthusiastically, much smaller, and also somewhat embedded. I separated what I could, then planted small bunches.
The Alchemilla babies were tiny, again growing into the paper. Again, I cut sections apart but this time laid them on top of the soil and sprinkled enough sifted mix to just cover all but the longest ones. Today I can see 11.

Of their rest, Here are the details:

Nothing happening yet:
Cold:
Agastache Bolero
Aquilegia Nora Barlow
Aquilegia Maggie Mae
Helianthus Lemon Queen- W 2 wks, then moved to C
Penstemon palmerii

Warm:
Astrantia 'Giant White'
Eryngium Miss Willmott's Ghost
Salvia Azurea
Scabiosa white- C 2wks, then moved to W

That's it for now...

Pam



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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

December 29, 2012
8:16 PM

Post #9370240

Just started a few goodies today, more tomorrow, just inpots with my owm mix of peat & perelite, then top off with vermiculite. Will be doing some deno later but just had to get some seeds in...lol.

Pam hope vacation was great!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

December 30, 2012
5:00 AM

Post #9370330

Back 3 days, already feel like, 'what vacation?' Actually it was very nice, last 5 days with DD and family. Been playing catchup, now looking forward to peace and quiet... And garden dreaming. I've been checking out Forest Farm, and they have a few things I really, really want. But the Bluestone wish list is no snorter... Sigh...

This morning I took the Penatemon Palmerii out of the frig. Fresh seed shouldn't need chilling, according to Clothier. Time will tell...

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

December 30, 2012
8:07 AM

Post #9370465

I had to share, I have blue milkweed germinating! I bought the seeds on ebay earlier this month. I'm getting a high success rate so with any luck I will have lots of seed next year. Milkweed grows good here, even the tropical types seem to live for a few years. I get lots of monarch and swallowtail catapillers on them. But blue . . . oooh.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

December 30, 2012
9:30 AM

Post #9370521

Wow! I never knew it came in blue... How long from seed to bloom? I can't wait to see pics!

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

December 30, 2012
5:55 PM

Post #9370877

It goes by the name Tweedia coerulea and from the pictures it looks like it makes a small bush like the orange/yellow kind. The flowers look completely different but the folliage and seed pods look like other milkweeds. My other milkweeds bloom first year, I sure hope this does too. Here's a picture of it from online.

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 2, 2013
9:43 PM

Post #9373783

So far have 4 different Dianthus sprouting and Anthemis tinctoria., next few days should be a bunch of goodies, started 64 different pots so far. I'm needing to get some new domes this year and my local nursery (35-40 miles away) is out til this weekend, unless I go to Denver...hmmm, roadtrip!!! LOL!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 5, 2013
2:05 PM

Post #9376360

In the last couple of days I found 1 Salvia Azurea, 3 white Scabiosa, and a bunch of Penstemon Palmerii germinating. They're all in pots in the propagator so they won't get cold or dry out before they have a chance to get their roots settled in the soil.

Erygium Miss Willmott's Ghost and Astrantia are now in the freezer. They've been in the baggies at room temp for 3 weeks, Clothier says 2-4. He says freeze for 4 weeks, then put them in the frig to germinate. I guess the initial warm period is to let them absorb enough moisture to soften the seed coat, then the variations in temps eventually trigger germination.

All my Platycodon seeds are soaking til tomorrow, then Deno. Last year I had great results doing it that way, they germinated in only a few days.

I finally broke down today and set up my 3 shelves in the kitchen window. We have a small table there where we eat breakfast, and the sill is on my side. I had so few pots started I was trying to hold off for a while and just use one tray, but stuff kept accumulating on the floor by my chair. Today DH noticed, so I decided it was time to get it done.

I can't find my heat mats from last year, and that window area gets quite chilly at times. I'm almost positive at least one is here, I seem to remember it being in the way at one point a few months ago, but it is no where to be found. I keep thinking of one more possibility, then one more, have dug deep in well-packed city closets, but no luck yet. I'm also missing the one larger tray I usually have on the sill... I think it's in CT...grrrrr...

My babies look sooooo lonely! But it won't be long before they have lots of company, it soon gets to the point where all I can think of is the Little Shop of Horrors--- feeeeed meeeee! LOL

Pam

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 8, 2013
6:08 PM

Post #9379559

Newest on what's sprouted so far and only under lights with no treatment. Asclepias incarnata, Antirhinum (snaps)...red, Campanula persicifolia Alba, Campanula glomerata Acaulis, Platycodon grandiflorus blue (was a few years old too), Delphinium elatum Dark Blue, Aquilegia short spur solid blue, Penstemon x mexicalee Psmyers Blue, Saponaria ocymoides Trailing Soapwort, Armeria maritima Bee's Hybrids, Catanche carulea alba, Aquilegia vidiflora Chocolate Soldier, Digitalis p. 'Pam's Choice', D. p. 'Sutton's Apricot', D. p. Pinkie/Purpleish, D. p. 'Mountains Mix', D. p. grandiflora yellow foxglove, D. p. 'Pam's Split', and Phlox paniculata unk. color. So far (38 of the origional 60), have popped up here...did another tray of 32 also.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 10, 2013
8:45 PM

Post #9381654

Wow, you've been busy! You started foxgloves already? Will they flower this year, do you think?

Amazon delivered my windowsill heat mat and thermostat yesterday and I set it up. The temp has been between 65-68 whenever I tested it, but I'm sure colder at night. I set the thermostat to 72, and it shows between 70-71.8 or so. I hope the babies like it. I've lost a few, possibly because they were too cold and wet, but the remaining ones all look strong and are starting on the first set of true leaves.

Most of the Platycodons sprouted already, yippee! All the. Perlmutters and Astra Pink, and a few of the Astra Blue are now in sifted potting mix in the propagator, which is definitely warmer now.
Penstemon Palmerii are just beginning to shoot up. I'm hoping for a good crop, I have the perfect place for them.

Next: Veronica's and Foxgloves, but I won't have time for a day or two.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 12, 2013
8:37 PM

Post #9383260

I figured if I can get my foxglove started early and outside (covered area, but will still get cool), maybe I can trick a few of them...hope...hope...hope... LOL My old seed of Platy.grandiflorus blue has sprouted tho not any you sent yet, wanted to see about the older seed first...(old seed 8 days), yours I did on 1/7 and nothing yet...

Nothing on my P. palmerii yet, I'll try a few more days and fridg if necessary.

Just to let you know...Digitalis 'Camelot Series' and 'Foxy' are suppose to be 1rst year bloom, also read that some of the biennials if started early enough could bloom first year.

New sprouts since last report...Delphinium e. lilac/white bee, Penstemon palmerii (just checked and 4 sprouts so far), Aquilegia Sweet Rainbows (1), Papaver o. Coral Reef, Penstemon (gift from Garden Club), Petunia Midnight Dreams, Chamerion angustifolium(Stahl Rose) or (epillobium angustifolium), Centaurea jacea, Campanula takesimana 'Elizabeth', Oenothara hookeri, Dierama argyreum mix 'Angels Fishing Rod', Baptisia autraulis Alba, Digitalis p. Foxy, Lupinus Russell Hybrids Red, and Centranthus ruber.

these are my babies. Pix 1-4

So far is -4* and only 930pm...Yikes.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 12, 2013
9:26 PM

Post #9383292

Great, I have some Digitalis Camelot, was going to wait and direct sow it, but now I'll get some going early.

I did get the Veronicas going, Fairytale and Goodness Grows, also South African Foxglove, Dianthus Loveliness and Sooty, and Lily Formosiana Lancer, all in baggies. The Lily went in the frig, the rest in the propagator.

Also started Digitalis Pantaloons (Pam's Choice), sprinkled the seeds in a 4" pot. They are just too small to try the Deno method... The packet says 50, but they took up no space at all. Hard to believe there are really so many.

1 Penstemon palmerii shot up a couple of days ago. I left it under the dome, waiting for more to show, I was hoping for several. This morning I noticed a musty smell and saw a little white fuzz on it, so I took it out, removed the fuzz, and put it under the lights. Since then that one shoot looks fine, but no more are came up. I wonder what happened to them... I'm glad yours are coming...

I can't believe how much you've got going already, just boggles the mind! I really had to edit because of space... I'd love a set-up like yours!

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 12, 2013
10:13 PM

Post #9383322

Boy you guys really have a lot going. I've more than I know what I'm going to do with. I do have two gardening friends that will be getting lots of seedling gifts.
Today's top germinators; Texas Red star hibiscus, Oenothera "sunset boulevard", and tinantia erecta. Excited about the Oenothera, it's orange, that's different. And I'm hoping the tinantia will do well under the Oak trees. I hope my digitalis comes up, have had some failures with it in the past. I must admit I hate working with tiny seeds.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 12, 2013
11:10 PM

Post #9383334

Lol, ya but what am I going to do when I fill up ALL my areas? lol. That was the whole purpose to moving to the country. So I could have as much garden (or should I say flowers) as I wanted and have a well... I just have to get ahead of those darn grasses.

Yup, I will have to see what I can get planted this year. I may have to battle those grasses in the backyard this spring as I know all that rototilling didn't get them all. That's why I am glad winter came, so come early spring I can get any that come back before I start intensively planting the perenns. and annuals. And I have plans to draw up, for me and susie. I just love having all those plants... When I start this spring I will be able to go out and grab a tray of whatever and fill a whole location with one type of plant. I want drifts of color in the back, again trying not to use the same ones in the main border. There may be a few repeats, but I hope not too many, as there is soo much plant material to choose from. But what I do happen to repeat will be considered as tie ins to the other parts of the gardens.

It may seem like I'm starting early, but come later this winter when I start potting on, I will need all the extra time I can get before spring planting time. If not, I have found that I'm still potting things come July and I definately wanna get things ready before that...yikes... Nothing worse than finding I'm wanting a certain plant and it's still sitting in a pot waiting for me to pot it on and then substitute something else... And if I had had to buy most of my plants, I believe my garden would be very small...lol... Such wonderful things hobbies can be...lol, mine just happens to be plants...
The last few days I've been working on a list of all the tall plants, 4ft and over (mostly that are hardy in my area), yes annuals too. So far have managed to compile a list of approximately 60 plants and did not include vines or srubs with the exception of roses. Trying to keep in mind what the deer can't see over they won't jump. I have found that the deer don't bother the areas that are intensly planted. They may nibble around the edges but won't go into the thick of it so to speak...lol. And if they see nothing but a wall, they may find somewhere else to brouse...

I hope you enjoy those Dianthus x.L., they are lovely, make sure to put some close to the house so you can enjoy their fragrance, and keep them deadheaded as they will bloom the whole season if you can keep them clean...lol. Ya, I know, good intentions.. Remember to collect seed as they are not long lived also...maybe 3 or 4 years ish.. they are one of those plants that bloom themselves out...just a tidbit.

Ok, I've talked your ear off, hope you don't mind if I ramble on..

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 12, 2013
11:38 PM

Post #9383335

Dome...lol...I might have some Digitalis for ya come spring...lol. I have a pot of Pam's Choice, that I am almost certain to have extras of, if not I can always save a few..lol...And I just looked will probably have extras of alba also...That reminds me I need to get that seed together for you, d-mail me your address, I will try to get to that in the next few days... I won't be going anywhere til Tuesday...it's burry outside...s'pose to warm up to 32* by then...lol. Remember to surface so tiny seed. Just to let you gals know, I don't wet my soil when I start, I fill my pots with mix, sprinkle seed, top if I need with vermiculite, and then spay sparingly, just enough to wet the top of the mix.. Every day I spray my seed pots to keep moist but not wet. Not until they come out of the dome do I give them a gentle dose of water, and I don't take them out of the dome covered tray til they are well on their way (and all the seeds in the pot have sprouted)...

Oooh, I eyed that Oenothara a few years ago, didn't get it but if you have extras...lol.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 13, 2013
5:05 AM

Post #9383394

Is that a favorite book of yours for design? Maybe I should get it?
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 13, 2013
8:23 AM

Post #9383554

I dug around in the P palmerii pot, found a seed with a 1/8" root. It looked healthy enough, so I put it back and left the rest alone. I guess there's still hope. I also sprinkled all my pots with cinnamon to prevent fungus (damping off) and gnats.

Meanwhile two more seeds in the baggy showed life and are now in pots under the dome.

I also found a few more Platys sprouting, a double white and a dwarf blue, they are now in there too.

I just looked up Tinantia Erecta-- what a cool plant. I had never heard of it. I have a few weedy shade spots it would be perfect. Is the seed easy to find? How long does it take to get to a good size? Have you ever grown it before? I must say when I saw it was in the Tradescantia family it took me back, but then I saw that it's definitely an annual, so that's OK.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 13, 2013
8:46 AM

Post #9383578

I'm getting worried about the Helianthus Laetiflorus Lemon Queen. They've been looking nearly ready to sprout for a while, I'm afraid they'll rot. There's very little info on perennial sunflowers on most of the databases. Clothier is the only one, and he says chill for 12 weeks! I looked up my records from last year. I didn't have great success, only ended up with one plant, but that one sprouted in 4 days in a baggy on the windowsill at 70+- degrees. I'm taking my baggy out of the frig now. I had been hoping for better results, but if chilling makes the difference, 5 weeks is all they're getting. Meanwhile I'd rather have 1 than none.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 13, 2013
9:10 AM

Post #9383608

WWK - I'm jealous of all your space. I live on acreage but I'm in a canyon so the days are short and it's heavily wooded so I'm always complaining about not having enough light. I do have a couple of pastures so drought tolerant plants are always welcome. It seems the more I plant in the pasture the more butterflies I have. Of course it might be that I've found milkweed will grow without tending to it. I put all the oenothera in soil already, I always seem to find the oddest plants, now if I could just get them all to grow. Thanks for the input on how you germinate. I may be getting them too wet. I do check online for individual instructions so I don't bury the ones that need light, and I never bury anything deep, it seldom freezes here so there is no need. I'll Dmail my address, thanks for the extras, I've gone flower crazy.

Pfg - This is the first time with the Tinantia erecta, I got it from a friend who sells seeds. Whenever I see her she loads me up with seeds of plants she wants me to try. I'm making an effort to find plants that will grow under my oak trees, it's a challenge as it's pretty deep shade and they are too big to thin out LOL. I have mostly ivy and lychnis under them now. It's not fenced so I can't grow anything the deer will eat. I'd love to get more foxglove going, that was kind of the plan but I lost most of it last year, don't know why.

Check out bookcloseouts.com for garden books, I have a whole garden library from them.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 13, 2013
12:22 PM

Post #9383775

Well, I just transplanted todays arrivals. I now have agastache "after eight" and asclepias physocarpa "hairy balls?". I'm sure the monarch's will love them.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 14, 2013
12:11 PM

Post #9384797

Ok...update on what's sprouted: Salvia verticillata Alba, Lysimachia atropurpea, Veronica gentianoides Palida, (and Pam 4 of the 5 platys), Platycodon grandiflorus Dbl. Blue, Platycodon Miss Tilly, Platycodon Astra Blue, Platycodon Astra Pink.

Pam, that is an old book that I just pulled out of the Hort. cupboard the other day and was sitting on the table, great background huh..It's one of those eye candy books. So far I have 13 Penstemon palmerii sprouted. Started 12/30 and sprouted 1 /11. I'm thinking these will grow rather fast. The origional plant was put in as a quart pot in summer of 2011. Put in 3 and 2 got washed away a few weeks later in a deluge. Fortunately, 1 stayed with me..anyway this last summer was about 36"> at the base. And I still forgot to smell them, someone remind me come summer...lol!!!!!

Dome..I've also found some great buys on Amazon .com. Most I got from that site were $1-4 + $3.99 shipping.

Pix Penstemon palmerii close up, am thinking got to about 48"^

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 14, 2013
12:35 PM

Post #9384834

I loe that pic- can't wait until I have my own!

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 14, 2013
3:09 PM

Post #9384981

Besides chamomile and cinnamon, misting or watering with dilute hydrogen peroxide discourages damping off.

It also supplies some extra oxygen to the roots.

water or mist plants, to soak seeds, wash sprouts

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 15, 2013
3:06 PM

Post #9386358

Hey Rick...what's the ratio for peroxide/water? And would that solution be used once a day? I usually mist my plants 2 times a day at this stage (under dome). Those that have been taken out get misted 3-6 times a day...you know...just gotta keep checking in on the babies.. LOL.

Another burry one last night, this mornibg when I got up was --6*...mid 20's this afternoon but a breeeeeeze too. Might get an inch tonight, gosh I hope! All those plants I put in in Nov. and Dec. sure would like a drink.

Hey Pam...is that a typo or what? (loe)...just joking. Did you enlarge that pix? If not, do so..see how hairy the blossom is, cool huh? I not sure but I would guess that penstemon has the largest flowers in the whole group of Penst.

And Rick...what's growing at your house this winter?

Ok..g-kids home from school...later.

Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy
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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 15, 2013
3:29 PM

Post #9386387

Oops, yes, typo... looooooooove!

Here's the link to the peroxide site:

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/peroxide-garden.html

I use it religiously. I've played a little with the proportions, now just do 10:1, makes the math easy.
1 Quart of water, 32 oz: 3 oz peroxide (3%, the regular drugstore kind, not what's used for hair color)
1 Gallon water, 64 oz: 6 oz peroxide

I also add 1 drop of Superthrive per quart to help get the roots going. I'm getting great results, lots of sprouts.

Up for a while and still going strong: Alchemilla Mollis, Campanula White Clips, Salvia x Turkestiana, Salvia Azurea, White Scabiosa, Penstemon palmerii.

The latest: All the Platycodons- Perlmutter, Hakone White, Astra Pink and Blue, Dianthus Loveliness (thanks, Kathy) and D Sooty, South African Foxglove, a couple more P palmerii.

I do have a problem this year. I'm really unhappy with the seed starting mix I'm using. I've sifted out the big chunks and added coir to it, but I think it's just too wet for some things. I've vowed to go out looking for vermiculite, but people say its hard to find these days? Maybe because of health fears, not good to inhale it? NYC is not a good place to go looking for those kinds of supplies. There's a Home Depot nearby, but it's city oriented, very different from the ones everywhere else. Is there a good online site, maybe I could order a stash?

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 15, 2013
4:04 PM

Post #9386424

Pam, I'm glad you proved that somewhat stronger H2O2 won't kill leaves on contact. I've read other people saying they use it pretty strong. Your ratios will give around 0.3%.

I usually go by that site's advice to use it 32:1, that is to say 0.1%, unless the plant is sick with fungus.

1 tsp peroxide per 5.3 ounces of water or
1 ounce peroxide (2 tablespoons) per Quart of water or
cup of 3% peroxide per gallon

- - -

>> what's growing at your house this winter?

Dust balls, mostly. The herd is healthy and stable as long as I have no visitors. Then I have to vacum and their populationj crashes. B ut they come back.

My AMB ITION is growing to start so many seeds indoors that I HAVE to make a working cold frame. The little tent of plastic film has not yet even melted the frost on the film.
1. day length is short north of Seattle
2. sun angle is low
3. clouds most of the time.
4. shade from buildings all around my yard
5. shade from the nearby Rhododendron

I would tell you how many hours of direct sun that bed gets, but I think the sun only hits it in the summertime! I think I need to find a different site, but that IS the south part of my yard!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 15, 2013
4:08 PM

Post #9386427

Pam, see if TractorSupply.com has it...if I'm thinking of the correct catalog they have all sorts of grow things...tarps, greenhouses, chemicals, tray, mediums. If that isn't correct let me know cuz I think I've got a catalog of another... Sure glad they still sell it here...just found a nice fine grade at local hardware store when I got ready to begin this year, was a bit pricey but very fine... And if you don't find any to buy I did pick up a bushel bag at local home depot... If having a problem with wet soil, start out a bit drier, I don't actualy wet mine til pots come out of the domed tray. Til seeds are up and mature enough (might be a week or even two), then and only then I begin wetting the soil in the whole pot. I begin with only spraying from a quart bottle enough to dampen the top of the soil and just enough to keep it moist...(usually 2 times a day).
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 15, 2013
4:20 PM

Post #9386447

I'm not around as consistently as you are, need more remote control... But vermiculite as the top layer would help, I think, at least for the stage after the radicals show but before they're actually rooted in the soil. I lose too many then.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 15, 2013
5:22 PM

Post #9386507

Would you believe, Amazon has it, and DH recently got a Prime card. It's Hoffman's 16002, $12 for 8 quarts. Some reviews thought it was perfect, some thought it was too fine. Haven't I read that fine is better? Is that right?

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 15, 2013
6:04 PM

Post #9386551

Jonna Sudenious uses very coarse vermiculite for seed starting (winter sowing). Like coarse or medium coarse myself since I think even very small seeds can push it aside. I mainly sprinkle it on top of seeds that only need to be thinly covered.

BTW, if your mix is already too wet, I think you need the coarsest additions you can find, to improve drainage and aeration.

Vermiculite holds more water than almost anything. Wouldn't coarse Perlite or grit (crushed rock) give you better drainage and aeration than vermiculite?

I'm a big fan of screened bark nuggets or even bark shreds. They hold less water than vermiculite and more than Perlite or grit. They open up the mix so excess water will flow out and air c an flow in.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 15, 2013
7:23 PM

Post #9386632

I'm just say'in, this is the method I have used for more than 18 years, e-gads, it's been that long...oh my!!!! I usually do use the medium or coarse grade tho as I dont usually find the fine grade.

I do use peralite in my peat moss. I make my own soil every year, starting with a fresh 3c. ft. bale of peat. Usually have to break off chunks (cuz it frozen), into a 3-5 gallon tub with lid, break it up so no lumps remain and is fine. Then I add peralite til I think it looks right, (great recipe huh?). I have learned just to use the vermiculite on top, don't think I've ever added more than 1/8-1/4" as a topping over the seeds. I must have grown more than 10,000 seedlings by now... My garden club loves it when I bring in flats of goodies for the annual sale, ( but they sure were disappointed last spring when I only brought a couple of plants.. didn't have my stand up).

And Pam, if you haven't already bought that, look a bit more. The bag of fine that I got was $5.50 ish for an 8 quart bag of fine (which is usually higher in price). Seems like H.D. and Walmart sell med. or coarse for about $3-4 for the same size. And truely any size of vermiculite is great...

The nice thing about the vermiculite topping is that it allows room for air circulation at the top of the pot.

So Rick...only growing veggies this year? Loved your comments about the indoor crops you're growing...lol.

And I spray my seedlings in the morning when I turn on the lights and again 14-16 hrs later, just before I shut them off.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 15, 2013
7:38 PM

Post #9386640

Update: Newly sprouted, Campanula latifolia Alba, Aquilegia vulgaris Winkey Dbl Rose/White, Lobelia cardinalis, Platycodon grandiflorus Dbl. White. (so Pam, all you sent had germinated (Platys). And Pam, I'll have plenty of the Penstemon p., the count is up to 25 and more in the pot yet...

Pix 1,2 and 3 are still under lids yet.
Pix 4 are those I've moved to open air.

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deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 16, 2013
5:46 AM

Post #9386867

You Must have lots of pots to have to repot each of those How do you divide each of them ??
I Hope to plant a few more today .
calling for a few snow flakes later today but mostly dipping to the low teens this weekend.
still watching & Learning ty for sharing :)

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 16, 2013
10:48 AM

Post #9387215

Yup, each will go into seperate pots. Depends on what the plant is and how many of the same type of seedling.. I like it when I can put them in trays of 48, 64, 102, etc..Hope I got those numbers right...lol. I get the trays from a local nursery (recycle bin). These are the trays they get plants from their suppliers to pot on for a few months. They either pop them into a larger pot or maybe a planter with multiple plants and then charge you $40-100. You know the ones you ooooh and aaaahhh over. Atleast thats how I do it... Sometimes I seed directly into these trays, ie Lobularia (Sweet Alyssum) and such. Pix #3 shows one of the tray with four insert, so it easy to put just one type of plant in the row.

Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy   Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy   Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy   Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy   Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy
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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 16, 2013
10:51 AM

Post #9387218

OOOOpps, didn't know 2 pix were the same, but you get the idea...and these pix are from several years ago.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 16, 2013
4:08 PM

Post #9387566

For sure, what works well needs no fixing! And starting 10,000 seedlings is great experience. I don't think I've killed that many YET.


>> I have learned just to use the vermiculite on top, don't think I've ever added more than 1/8-1/4" as a topping over the seeds.

I do something similar indoors with tiny seeds - maybe 1/16" to 1/8" of v ermiculite to cover. Sometimes I'll do that outdoors with fussy seeds in a clayey bed, to avoid crusting. Then I fill a 2 liter bottle with coarse vermiculite so I can pour it accurately along a ahallow row, or shake out little "dots" of vermiculite.

>> only growing veggies this year?
It depends on what I find time to start. I WANT petunias, violas, Lobelias, some Salvias, plus some random annuals, but have on ly found time to clean up my lighted shelf.

I have to figure out what to do with an indoor Salvia I neglected to put outside. It got covered with some small insect that makes fine webs. Insecticidal soap knocks them back for 3-5 weeks, but they return.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 16, 2013
4:22 PM

Post #9387575

Huh! I thought I posted this afternoon, but it's not here now!

That's some operation you have there, Kathy. Filling up the prairie, indeed! It's already spectacular in the pics you post, can't wait to see the new area when it gets going.

My scope is much smaller. The most I have of any one plant is 12. This is mainly because I'm still experimenting a lot, waiting to see what I fall in love with, and also what loves my conditions. I figure I can always increase by dividing if I want more later. And as things have grown over the last few years, my garden is filling in. I do have new areas every year, but none are all that huge, and I get more specific about how to fill them.

I've been searching around for vermiculite on the web, but want to make one trip to HD in my neighborhood just in case they have it before I order anything. I won't get the fine unless that's really all there is.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 16, 2013
4:51 PM

Post #9387589

>> see ... what loves my conditions

I found a few things that can withstand my soil, slugs and care by spreading several kinds of "seed mixes" and identifying the survivors.
- Siberian Wildflower,
- Alyssum and
- Sweet William

I think those mixes include a lot of varieties that are not fussy, to maximize people's chances of success.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 17, 2013
8:01 AM

Post #9388057

Makes sense to me...

HD on line says no vermiculite in the city stores, so I ordered a 12 qt bag, $6 plus $6.99 from Greenhouse Megastore. While I was at it I got some cell inserts and tags too

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 17, 2013
5:52 PM

Post #9388611

LOL.., now pam...would you like me to tell you about how to get more inexpensive tags?? lol...

Corey...do you use crushed egg shells or copper pennies for your garden friends?

Still waiting for my Cephalarias to sprout, from what I 've read tho 21-60 days...

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 17, 2013
7:43 PM

Post #9388741

Oh Kathy Put me down for a few of the Cephalarias seeds or maybe seedling come spring if you have extra :)))

Pam I just paid $4.79 for a 3.5qt bag so you just may have gotten the best deal .
well been a long day so GN all .
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 17, 2013
9:10 PM

Post #9388806

OK Kathy, what's your tag secret? I cut up Yogurt containers, but I'm out and we don't have one anywhere near empty. I've also read about the Venetian blind slats, but don't have one that needs re-cycling, seems silly to buy one for what I need right now...

Deejay, the plant I sent you is actually Cephalaria. I thought it was an over-size white Knautia, but Kathy ID'd it correctly. So you don't need seeds.

What I'm getting is coarse vermiculite. Tracking info says it will get here by Tuesday.

So far everything is doing well except the Penstemon palmerii. It sprouts in the baggy, but doesn't come up once it's planted. I was setting the sprouted seeds about 1/8 -1/4" deep into the mix. The last time a couple of days ago, I just pressed them lightly into the top of the soil and sprinkled a little coir around them, then misted. Nothing yet...

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 18, 2013
6:16 AM

Post #9388976

Pam Cool thank you I got so many plants last summer & I Just had to put them in the ground but I do not remember all that I Received . well my other Mini GH was just delivered by fedx so off to play :)

I'm getting so antsy for spring :) snow moving in this weekend . ya all stay warm back later

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 18, 2013
11:44 AM

Post #9389287

Penstemon grew REALLY slowly for me. I would have set them with the cotyledons on or above the surface (just cover the root thinly. Then expect them to grow REALLY slowly. I guess not every P. species is a slow-poke, but mine were.

>> Corey...do you use crushed egg shells or copper pennies for your garden friends?

No, just beer and bait. I make lots of shallow beer saucers from bottoms of soda bottles.

I also discovered that some years are much worse than other years for slugs.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 19, 2013
2:56 PM

Post #9390427

So far I have 26 seedlings of Penstemon palmerii. See new pix below.

As of today is day 21 for the Cephalaria (have gigantia and alpina), book says 21-60 days. I'm hoping any day now!!!

Thumbnail by warriorswisdomkathy
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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
1:33 AM

Post #9390900

Lucky you, I have one...

The descriptions I've been able to find for the Cephalarias seem very similar. They say yellow flowers for both, mine are very pale, almost white. Both are tall, too, mine is easily 6.' Do you know what the difference is? Mine could be either one.

Inexpensive tags?

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 20, 2013
7:00 AM

Post #9391003

My tags are from the Blinds I Found at the Habitat retail store for $1. a blind bought 3 of them I Have over couple 100's tags + & I find them at yard sales . I Have sprouts Shrimp Plant & Mimosa tree . Now just to keep them growing :))

off to do some painting .
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
9:19 AM

Post #9391164

Cool...

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
10:01 AM

Post #9391230

Yup venetian blinds are the answer..To me tho Walmart is closer, and they are only $3-4...yup I get hundreds and hundreds...Make sure to use a Sharpie Permanent Marker tho, add I find even this fades after two to three years. This last summer I also added Dynamo Personal Label Maker in clear on the other side. Wanna see how long each lasts...

Update, new sprouts: Delphinium White Galahad, Aquilegia Maggie Mae, Delphinium Blue/Dark Bee, Aquilegia vulgaris stelata Christa Barlow, Dianthus armurensis Siberian Blues, and Verbascum chaixii.

Getting ready to start a bunch more this afternoon...

Cephalaria alpina: Pale yellow, 11/4" wide, up to 6ft^x 24"> z4-8
Cephalaria gigantea: Primrose yellow, 11/2"-21/2" wide, up to 8ft^x24">, z3-7, (darker yellow than alpina)
I have grown both of these many years ago and couldn't remember so I looked them up..and yes, one if definately more on the deeper yellow side...C.g...But it seems to me they were wider that the 24" listed. Don't remember if they bloomed 1st or 2nd year...

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 20, 2013
10:19 AM

Post #9391261

kathy do you have shelves In every room of your house ???
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
10:23 AM

Post #9391265

Mine must be the C alpina, it looked white to me. The first year it bloomed at Knautia height... Too funny, the second year I went into shock, especially since I was away for several weeks in the summer and came back to these stalks on steroids.

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KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

January 20, 2013
10:29 AM

Post #9391272

Hi, everyone! I am new at starting seeds under lights, and I have some lobelia seeds: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/379/

I read somewhere that they need to be started early. They are tiny seeds--look like dust! How do I do this?

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
10:49 AM

Post #9391295

No, silly..only one stand so far, and only one shelf also. Stand is 31" wide x 60" long x 78" high. It has 4 shelves and I can also make another shelf on the floor. I need to replace a few of the light units as they have gone caphooee over the years, only $10 at H.D. I will be able to place 71/2 trays on each shelf, that's if I stay with the typical 11"x22" tray and one short or 1/2 tray; when using 21/2" pots, that's 240 plants per shelf, after they have been potted on, more if I use smaller trays, ie 32's or 72's...you get the idea?

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
10:56 AM

Post #9391301

Ky...welcome...I just sprouted some L. cardinalis, mine sprouted in about 8 days under flourecent lights. Do you have them covered to keep the moisture in?
KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

January 20, 2013
12:32 PM

Post #9391406

I haven't sowed them yet, but I will do that--do they need bottom heat? Nice set-up you've got there!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
12:53 PM

Post #9391440

Room temp should be fine, 65-70. Press the seeds into the top of seed starting mix. Tiny seeds shouldn't be covered, or barely covered, they need light to germinate.

I think you have the compact, small flowered ones, Lobelia erinus, am I right? They are great cascading from containers or as edgers. If so, I would use cell-packs, usually there are 6 to a container, sometimes 9. Sprinkle a few seeds in each cell, and cover with Saran, or a humidity dome, whatever you have to keep the surface from drying out. Once they sprout you can gradually add fresh air, either by punching holes in the Saran or propping up the humidity dome. After a day or 2 you can remove the cover. Then just let them grow as a cluster and plant them outside that way as well when the time comes. Look up this thread, Kathy has posted details too.

If your Lobelia is a larger type, such as Cardinalis or Siphilitica, then I would cluster sow in a 4" pot. When they get big enough to handle they can be separated into separate pots.

Hope this helps,

Pam
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 20, 2013
5:52 PM

Post #9391747

Teehee. I got a label maker...

Lots of possibilities! Lol

Thumbnail by Pfg   Thumbnail by Pfg         
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Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 20, 2013
8:31 PM

Post #9391891

I love my label maker. If it's a ptouch, check out buying tape online, it's cheaper.
I'm excited, I had a dozen golden columbine germinate! I haven't had any luck with columbine up 'til now.
I'm going to put some morning glories in tonight, I've opted for peat pellets. They did well in them last year, the trouble started once I put them in the ground. Not sure if it was bugs or birds that ate the seedlings. This year I'm going to transplant them to 4" pots and keep them in the greenhouse until they get a little larger.

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 21, 2013
6:09 AM

Post #9392120

Mine do Much better if i just put them right in the dirt where i want them. I would like to find a Yellow MG & A Pink MG also the MOONVINES Or are these the Moonvines ?? also a Red One .
anyone have any to share with me ???

Well we have about 2" of snow this morning 1st real snow for the winter they say possible 4" today
& So I won't complain for i have no where to go & I have lots of Rocks & Pots To Paint :))

so you all have a great day hope to get back in later .

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 21, 2013
9:02 AM

Post #9392346

Maybe I'll take some of the MG's and stick them in the ground, I'm just worried they'll get consumed like they did last year. I probably have enough seed to do both in ground and in peat pellets. I'm looking at the end of February as my last frost date. We probably have already had our last frost though, it was in the 70's yesterday.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 21, 2013
11:33 AM

Post #9392502

Dome..sorry seeds not shipped yet, been under the weather..will get to it tho...

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 21, 2013
1:46 PM

Post #9392670

No rush, I have more than enough to do and not all that much energy to do it.
Getting older . . . I guess it's better than the alternative.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 21, 2013
4:38 PM

Post #9392830

Feel better, Kathy!

It turns out that Penstemon palmerii did not want to be even 1/8" buried after sprouting in the paper towel. The last few I just pressed into the top of the mix, and they're coming up. Whew!

The vermiculite comes tomorrow, I'll be using that from then on. But tonight, I'll be taking all my little Platys and giving them more room. I'm particularly excited about P Permutter, a soft, silvery pink. I saw pics from someone's garden and had to have them. I tracked the seeds down and now they're up :-))). I think they don't grow all that fast, but I'll give them 2" pots until I run out. Then I have some 6-packs with slightly larger cells for the rest, that will have to do for a while.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 22, 2013
12:23 PM

Post #9393802

Ya know Pam...you could probably get away with the 6 packs for several months...It' doesn't look like they are going to be a fast grower, but then again those in the campanula family are slow too...Not sur e if in the same family but suspect they might be...

I'm not sure ...I think I feel better...lol. How's that for an answer...I just haven't done much the past few days but get caught up on sleep...lol..

Don't think I'll be doing any potting on yet for a few weeks, it will help to keep cost down since the more I pot on the more lights that will go on til the end of April. Those that I start on first will be those that can handle the outside cool areas (under plastic and remay of course...( tho they will be inside for serveral weeks to a month before going out...)
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 22, 2013
8:01 PM

Post #9394257

Last year I had some in 6-packs until spring but I started much later. Funny, I mixed up labels on one pack and planted them In the ground thinking they were annuals. Much to my surprise, tho they stayed small, they flowered. The ones in gallon pots didn't. I'm hoping by giving them a better start they'll get a little more height. Still for now they're in the larger 6-packs as I was running out of potting mix. As soon as they fill the cells I'll move at least some of them up.

I do the same thing you do, start shoving the plants outside as soon as possible, plastic, Reemay, whatever. Not the Platys, I'll keep them warm as long as I can, but it's amazing how much cold so many other plants can take. That doesn't start until the beginning of April when we open the house. That's the first cooling off, as we keep the house at 60 when we're not there during the week. I have heat mats for germination and the really tender seedlings, but the rest actually do well away from the city heat, not so much tall spindly growth. Then as I start the annuals, the tougher plants get booted out to make room. Most perennials, some herbs and snaps are first to go... Months away still...

Glad you're feeling better!

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 22, 2013
8:32 PM

Post #9394294

In connection to tiny and dust-like seeds, I use fine moistened peatmoss in a container. I pour the seeds on to the peatmoss and blend it in lightly. I did this with my delosperma (iceplant) seeds. They are like dust. I covered the container and the seeds sprouted in 5 days. Once they sprout, I scoop the peatmoss up and transfer it with the sprouts to potting soil to continue to grow. At this point, I don't try to seperate them. I wait until a bit larger.

Fine seeds have to be surface sown, the reason everyone thinks they need light. Tiny seeds could never reach the surface if covered.

Below is the photo of Delosperma in peat moss after they were transferred.

This message was edited Jan 22, 2013 9:33 PM

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 22, 2013
8:40 PM

Post #9394302

I forgot to add that I have used the Deno method for all seeds for 4 years. It is the only way to go. I use it for my Daylily seeds and works great. Got 182 seedlings sprouted last year. This year I just potted more up. I am running out of garden room. Some things just works too good. LOL!

From sprouting, to hardening off, to planting in nursery bed. 2012

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KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

January 22, 2013
8:44 PM

Post #9394306

Thanks for the tip about the dust-like seeds, blomma. Wow, you've been busy!

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 22, 2013
10:05 PM

Post #9394356

O.K. I'm convinced, I just downloaded the Deno method and started reading through it. I ran into a section on germinating Cardiocrinum Giganteum. Now mind you I have 3 / 128 cell trays of this out in my greenhouse. Deno explains that it usually fails to germinate because it needs a 5 cycle germination. 40 degrees followed by 70, then 40 again, then 70, then 40. That's a couple of years of watering so most gardeners give up on it. I guess if I want some of these to germinate I will be picking them out of the trays and putting them in paper towels.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2013
1:33 AM

Post #9394388

Blomma, it's your detailed posts a couple of years ago that got me started using Deno, thanks! And that's a good tip about tiny seeds. I did something similar with Digitalis seeds successfully this year, just pressed them into the top of the mix.

Dome, check with Clothier, too. He continued to experiment, and the database is also huge.

http://tomclothier.hort.net

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2013
10:52 AM

Post #9394868

Dome...lucky you that you can even grow Cardiocrinums...I just looked up..book says it could take up to 7 years to get a blooming plant...and even bulbils from the mother plant can take several years to maure to blooming size...Good luck...I am guessing you already had one bloom or did you get the seed?

Blooma...wow!!!!!! Are you a hybridizer of daylilies and iris too? Do you seel any of your babies? Tell us more..

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 23, 2013
11:43 AM

Post #9394933

No I don't have a plant, just happened on someone giving away fresh seeds. I figure if I can get a few going they might be worth something in a few years. I see Plant Delights Nursery has them, maybe I'll buy a plant, I'd love to try one.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2013
11:52 AM

Post #9394945

Good Luck!!!! lol

Pam...got a question reference Ceratotheca triloba...you posted you were growing from seed in 2010...how did they do? Anyone else here ever grow them?
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2013
2:12 PM

Post #9395082

Actually, I'm growing them this year, Deno method, 1/11 and 4 days later had sprouts. I put a few in a cellpack, but the others seemed to be stuck to the paper towel already so I just set it in a 4" pot, sprinkled a little coir over them and put them all under the dome. All are fine.

I got my Vermiculite, just about to do a little more planting :-)))))

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RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 23, 2013
3:05 PM

Post #9395158

>> it needs a 5 cycle germination. 40 degrees followed by 70, then 40 again, then 70, then 40. That's a couple of years of watering so most gardeners give up on it.

Can't you leave the trays outside for a few weeks, bring it indoors for a few weeks, then repeat? Maybe reduce the watering effort by bagging the whole tray? I see he says that only fresh seeds germinate. When he says "in 5-11 w", does he mean that they entire process adds up to 5 to 11 weeks, or "5 weeks at 40 F, then 11 weeks at 70F, then repeat"?

Or here is Tom Clothier's advice:

Cardiocrinum Giganteum

http://tomclothier.hort.net/page02.html#C
page down about 3/4 of the way or search on "Cardiocrinum".

Sow at 18-22C (64-71F) for 2-4 wks,
move to -4 to +4C (24-39F) for 4-6 wks,
move to 5-12C (41-53F) for germination

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2013
5:08 PM

Post #9395287

Thanks Pam..think I'll try them with my method and see what kind of results I can get.. Sounds fairly easy..thanks. Do you know of anyone who has grown them? Where did you get your seed? I got mine from one of the trades here but don't have any info as to whom they came from or I could d-mail...lol. I've read various reports on height when searching for info. so was wondering.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 23, 2013
5:24 PM

Post #9395306

Pfg, glad you are passing on the Deno method.

Domehomedee, the seed mentioned that need flunctuating temperature is because they have double dormancy like iris seeds and need it to break dormancy and sprout.

Here is how I sprout Iris seeds, which can be used for any seeds that require fluntuating temps.

Store seeds in the fridge until you are ready. I start my seeds 3 weeks prior to winter weather---between October and November in my zone since I have many cultivars. Begin the process by soaking the seeds over night in a container filled with hand hot water. Allow to cool. The seeds need to remain in cold water for at least 3 weeks. Change the water out daily using a strainer to catch the seeds (to prevent losses). No nicking is necessary. This soaking and rinsing treatment is to remove the seed germination inhibitor present in the seed or seed coat. Outdoors, the fall rains and melting snow in winter do the same thing over a 3 to 4 month period.

If you have only a few cultivars the method below is a quicker way to remove the inhibiting factor. It cuts the soaking time in half since each time you flush, the inhibiting factor becomes less.

Buy nylon knee highs---cheap in Walmart. Put the seeds in the knee high so that they'll end up in the foot then take the knee high and a tag and use a mideum binder paper clip to attach the tag to the open end, or tie a knot.
Remove the top from the toilet tank. Drop the knee high into an area of the tank where it won't interfere with the moving parts in the tank. Be sure to leave the open (or knotted )end outside the tank. The foot part or closed part is put in the tank. The tank top and the binder clip, or knot, will prevent the sock from sinking into the tank and get flushed.


I use plastic shoe boxes with lids---inexpensive from Walmart---to sow seeds in. Drill or burn drainage holes at the bottom. After soaking, sow the seeds in pre-moistened potting soil 1/2" deep. I cover the containers and leave them out all winter long on North side of my house. An unheated shed or garage works also. Iris seeds require 12 weeks of less than 40 degrees temperature that fluctuate to break dormancy. They will sprout during spring when temperature reaches 55 to 70 degrees.

If you live in a climate without cold winters, the fridge can be used. It will just take a bit longer to break dormancy.

When the weather begins to warm in the spring, remove covers. As the seeds sprout place where they will receive morning sun. When large enough to handle, pot them up. I use 3" foam coffee cups with holes pierced at the bottom. Here in Wyoming, May 31 is the safe time to plant in my nursery.

Iris seeds can be stored in ziplock bags and placed in the crisper in the fridge. They will remain viable for years.

Below is my bin full of iris seeds planted in plastic boxes. Dec. 2011.

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RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 23, 2013
5:40 PM

Post #9395319

Have you ruled out dilute hydrogen peroxide as a way to zap germination inhibitors faster? Like 1 ounce per quart?

But I don't know - peroxide might be bad for Iris or some other seeds.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 23, 2013
5:42 PM

Post #9395322

Darn, hit the wrong button

warrior wisdomkathy, Yes I hybridize both irises and daylilies. Got started in 2009 when I found a bee pollinated iris pod, did research and when it sprouted, I was hooked.

I did sell most of my seelings last summer. I kept some to see what hey will do this summer. I may register them if worthy.

Below are 182 Daylily seedlings from 2012. On the right are iris seedlings. What is so fascinating is that each seed grown in the same pod will be a new and different variety never seen due to to many generations of genes that were bred into the parent plants.

To prove that point, all 4 of the seedlings below came from the same seed pod. They bloomed for the first time summer 2012. All but the first 2 I sold.

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 23, 2013
5:44 PM

Post #9395326

RickCorey_WA wrote:Have you ruled out dilute hydrogen peroxide as a way to zap germination inhibitors faster? Like 1 ounce per quart?

But I don't know - peroxide might be bad for Iris or some other seeds.


Rick I have experimented both ways and never noticed any difference. By the way Peroxide is used 9 parts water to 1 part Peroxide.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 23, 2013
5:50 PM

Post #9395339

Lots of good info, thanks for your input.
I think my biggest downfall is going to be that it isn't cold enough outside here for very long. I think I'm going to leave one tray outside for the next month while the weather is still cool at night and then I can put it in the greenhouse in Spring and maybe I can make room in the refrigerator for the Summer. I will dig out some of the seeds in the other tray, the one I just layed the seeds on top, and try them in paper towels. I'll just have to see what happens. I am going to have to decide how long to leave them in each climate.

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 23, 2013
5:53 PM

Post #9395342

>> I have experimented both ways and never noticed any difference.

That's good to know. It seemed to help me a lot with Salvia.

>> By the way Peroxide is used 9 parts water to 1 part Peroxide.

I follow the advice I got here, suggesting 1:32 (or 1:16 for spraying plants sic k with fungus). I think a lot of people do use it stronger, as you do.

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrogen-peroxide.html





blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 23, 2013
6:06 PM

Post #9395360

I wonder if it also is the inhibiting factor in seeds that prevents sprouting, combined with fluntuating temps. So it is with Iris seeds, so why not with other seeds.

warriorwisedomkathy,
I wonder if using the toilet tank as I stated above to remove the inhibiting factor may help difficult seeds to sprout. Then you just have to worry about temperature. Worth a try.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 24, 2013
11:22 AM

Post #9396189

Oh...wow...I'm soooo pleased to get this info..just love it...lol. I definately will be trying it this year. I have soo many new ones that I received last year (trades and some bought, and the others I've had). Iv'e always wanted to try hybridizing and just never got around to it. Am thinking I'll be doing me some playing this year.! Now got another question, if not too snoopy, where do you sell them ie. flea market? and how much.. Now ya got me on the edge of my seat...Oh naughty me...Gosh I still have four acres to fill..lol. Truely I am only joking...But I would love to devote some land to experiment...especially since the deer don't bother them and they are a drought tollerant plant once established...I need to finish my pacth along one side of the driveway..(4ft x100+ft.) left to fill yet...( the other side would give me 250-300ft of driveway...perfect for a new endevor..lol.). Ok gotta git for now. be back later...Need to get this info into my notebook...Thankyou and any other tibits would be truely enjoyed!!!!

Pix 1, My Iris border that needs finishing
Pix 2, My favorite Iris seller, a you dig (they also have mail order but have to go to the feilds...so much more fun)
Pix 3, same place just another feild and wanted a pix of the poppies too, lol.

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 24, 2013
10:34 PM

Post #9396861

warriorwisedomkathy,
Ohhhhh...what I could do with all that space. I have a small yard in town and irises and Daylilies grow on 3 sides plus in the back .

To answer your questions, I sell on Ebay and Lily Auction, both plants and seeds. I sow a certain amount of seeds from each cross, then sell the rest. Or save until the following year. I also wanted to hybridize for a number of years, but put it off thinking it is too involved. Then, found a pod on one of irises and the rest is history...I was hooked. Figured if I can do Irises, I can do daylilies.

My addiction now revolved around these 2 cultivars. I gave many of my other plants to my daughter to give me more room for seedlings. Sold my common daylilies purchased years ago from Walmart for I discovered the uncommon, beautiful ones so purchased those as stock plants, now totalling 69. And my first love---irises---I have 187. Plenty of parents to work with for seeds.

I can hardly wait till this summer since many seedlings of both will bloom for the first time at age 3. A few from 2011 may also bloom. The only bad thing about hybridizing is the actual crossing----6am before I go to work. That is when it is the coolest. Daylilies blooming end of June and on during the hottest time of the year have a hard time setting pods if not crossed when it is cool.

Below ae 144 iris seedlings sowed winter 2011, planted in nursery May 2012. Second photo is to show pots in bin for acclimation

When I was doing all kinds of seeds and before I bought that stand, I placed the potted seedlings in large clear bins from Walmart to harden them off with morning sun. If bad weather threatened, cover went on. If freezing weather, the bin could easily be carried into the house overnight.

To help, I save the pollen from early blooming plants to pollinate later blooming ones. My freezer is full of pollen to be used next season.

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 25, 2013
9:52 AM

Post #9397213

Now do I dare ask what can be gotten for them? ($$). We have several local farmers markets in my area and was wondering if it might be a good place to start? I know this would take a few years to get going but would like to go into it prepared..lol. So do you hand pollenate all the Iris or let the bees do any of it... When I have found pods in the garden, (cuz I didn't get to snipping the flower stalks), I have always saved the seed...

I could even do one of those dig your own type. Give 'em a spading fork and a paper bag...That's how the place that I go to does it..but then again their's are all named.
KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

January 25, 2013
11:54 AM

Post #9397299

Blomma, what's your ebay name?

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 25, 2013
7:39 PM

Post #9397768

KyWood
You have a D-mail
KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

January 25, 2013
7:48 PM

Post #9397777

Oops, sorry, I didn't realize you couldn't mention it here! Thanks!

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 25, 2013
7:52 PM

Post #9397780

warriorwisedomkathy.
99% of my seeds are hand pollinated. I do get bee pollinated seeds also but at least I know the pod parent. Most buyers are more interested when you can name both pod parent and pollen parent. The bee pollinated seeds I sell cheaper. They are nice for gardeners who just want to try sowing the seeds at a cheaper price.

As far as cost, hard to say since it depends on how new an iris is or daylily. So on auctions it will start at $1.99 for 8 seeds, depending on the cross. I have quite a few repeat buyers every year.

You can have people dig their own also. I sell seedlings from known parents. The buyer gets all the plant/s to name and register if they want. I can't keep them all for lack of room.

I will forewarn you. It is addictive, especially after you see that first bloom from a cross you did. It is worth it!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 26, 2013
1:33 AM

Post #9397863

It's fascinating to read about and see the pictures of your hybridizing methods. Maybe some day...

I've been thinking about my problem with the P Palmerii,they sprout in the baggy, but don't come up in the pot. I thought the coir I've been sprinkling on the surface is too wet, but now I think it's just too heavy. The reason i do it is becase in the past it has seemed to me that the surface dries out, even under the dome, and there is a hard crust the little shoots cant poke through. It could even be that try dry out and die. I know seeds need consistent moisture during germination, that's what's so great about Deno and the paper towels. Then they say to plant 1/4" deep, which is where I think the trouble lies with some seeds.. This year it's the P. p, nothing else, but it has happened to me before. So it makes sense to me that the vermiculite holds moisture but is light enough for even delicate shoots to get through. Once they're up, presumably the little root is long enough to reach down into the soil and get what it needs.

So the other night I transferred the tiny Veronica and Verbascum seeds to 4" pots, pressed them lightly into the surface of seed sterring mix, covered them with a scant 1/8" of vermiculite, and put them under the dome. The Verbascum was just beginning to show life, the others not yet. I did the same with the last remaining P p seeds just in case they are not duds.


Now we're away for a couple of days, I hope by the time we get back there will be something to see.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 26, 2013
10:09 AM

Post #9398148

Pam it looks like I have 50+ penstemon p. so far, am thinking they are almost all sprouted. If you don't fair well with your crop will share...This was more of an experiment to see if I could...so have plenty...

Blomma...nope couldn't be addictive!!! LOL. It's bringing beauty into the world... and to me that's a good thing... Ok, my excuse.. lol.

If you give a plant a name doesn't it have to be registered or not? So what maybe $2 or $3 for an unregistered ( u-dig or other)? Am thinking the Iris farm I go to charges $6 ish now for named.

Pix 1: Penstemon palmerii seedlings, once I see they are all up and growing good will take them out from under the dome.
Pix 2: Seedlings in open air, growing nicely.
Pix 3: new seedlings coming out into the open
Pix 4: one of my favorite books for reference, huge, am thinking this puppy weighs about 15-20 pounds.
Pix 5: show 5 trays in production, 4 on the top shelf and 1 below, (domes on 3 trays. Those out are propped up close to the light so no stretching yet.

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 26, 2013
8:37 PM

Post #9398718

warriorwisedomm kathy,
No, a plant don't have to be registered after you name it. However, you can't sell a plant with a name if it is not registered thus legally own that name.

Yes $2 or $3 sounds fine. It all depends on how much you want to settle for. When I sell a iris seedling that is not registered, the buyer get all fans no matter how many. The reason is that if they want to name and register it, I don't have the right to sell or propagate a fan of it unless I state that they can't register it. One of my seedling had produced 6 fans and all went to the buyer.

Holy Cow, you have seedllings galore. How will you divide them?

I can match your excuse, LOL! I say I am taking care of God's creations. I am his caretaker of sorts.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 26, 2013
8:48 PM

Post #9398733

Pfg,
I have ask, what is "coir"? It sound French. I keep seeing but have no idea what it is.

If your seeds sprout with Deno, there is no reason why they shouldn't continue to grow in soil. I plant sprouted seeds with the seed cover level with the soil and the roots pointing down (ofcourse). When I water, I put some on top but I place the container in water so it syphons upwards. Just pouring water from the top often don't wet all the soil in the container which makes it dry out too fast.

By the way, don't cover tiny or dust-like seeds just press them into the surface of the soil.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 27, 2013
3:30 AM

Post #9398810

Here's a definition from Amazon : Coconut Coir is a 100-percent natural by-product of harvesting coconut. Coir consists of the coarse fibers extracted from the husk on the outer shell of a coconut. Because of its superior water holding capacity, excellent air space and drainage, coir is a useful soil amendment for potted plants...

Last year I used it as a growing medium with mixed results. Some people say it can contain high salt levels which can burn seedlings, and that it should be rinsed with water several times before using. This year I started with MG potting mix (couldn't find seed starting mix in NYC in December) with the big particles sifted out of the top 1/2", and sprinkling coir on top. I think the mix was still too dense for the penstemon, planted 1/4" deep, which was why the little sprouts never surfaced. Everything else did fine. Last week I finally found seed starting mix, will put the sprouted seeds on top of the soil instead of inserting them into it, got some vermiculite to sprinkle on top. I hope not to have any more failures.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 27, 2013
9:21 AM

Post #9399053

Pfg
Why do you feel you have to sprinkle something on top of tiny seeds. If I remember correctly, Penstemon seeds are very tiny. Too tiny to make it to the surface. When I sowed them, I never covered them. I used fine peatmoss and blended the seeds into it. I did that with all tiny seeds.

Another was is to make a furrow in the mix, then pour the seeds into the furrow. With your fingers, just bring the sides of the mix closer so they are in contact with the mix, yet not covered. I have done it that way for years until started using peatmoss.

Personally, I wouldn't bother using coir but thanks for the explanation. Walmart have the seed mix.

Below is this year's sowing of Daylilly seeds. Some purchased, others my own. All with Deno method.

This message was edited Jan 27, 2013 10:22 AM

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 27, 2013
10:38 AM

Post #9399122

blomma, I will let them dry a bit and pop them out of the pot...if I have to I let them dry a bit more so they are just moist. It's much easier to break the soil into sections and then start pulling babies to pot on...In the next few weeks I'll get some pix as I'm about ready to start that process (only cuz I got a few plants to work on...and if I wait too long on some they get foliage tangles...In fact I will be giving some of my Dianthus x Loveliness a hair cut this week.)

Pix is white Dianthus x Loveliness w/ Geranium rozzane, (these Dianthus are just the most fragrant little things!!!! Only problem withthem is when rained on they look like a wet kleenex...lol, atleast until they dry a bit...I am growing several pakts of the mix this year as I've lost some of the colors from years ago, such as the purples and reds...

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deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 27, 2013
2:39 PM

Post #9399315

Kathy I Had a couple 2x3 ziplocks of Dianthus reds & Purples & Pinks not sure if there is any left or not .
hope you can find a few .

were getting your snow ,Rain sleet mix tonight so I'm Off to cuddle with a few Movies :)))
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 27, 2013
3:46 PM

Post #9399379

Blomma, I couldn't tell you exactly why... I just had this feeling that sometimes the surface could dry out at a critical point, and blamed some failures on that. Then I thought I would hedge my bets... On the whole, it seems to work, Kathy and many others use vermiculite in all kinds of ways, including as a light sprinkle for tiny seeds and up to 1/4" for the bigger ones. I didn't think the penstemon seeds were that small, I'm used to foxgloves and petunias and others which are like dust. But I can tell you I'll never make that mistake again!

This is my 3rd spring as a DGer and I've already learned to do things I would never have tried in my previous gardening life. 99% of my seeding experience was with annuals, all perennials were purchased. There is so much knowledge, ingenuity and creativity here, and I'm soaking up as much as I can!

What fun this has been! And humbling...

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 27, 2013
9:53 PM

Post #9399681

Lol Pam...99% of mine have been perenns...

First of those sown that go into the fridge today. Has any one grown Eryngium giganteum Miss Wilmott's Ghost or The Hobbit and Dierama argyreum? (also put myCephalarias in too).
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 28, 2013
2:29 AM

Post #9399743

My E Miss W was started 12/13/12 and has been in the freezer since Jan 6. Tom Clothier says Eryngium alpinum, bourgatii, giganteum, glaciale, palmatum, and spinalba , Sow at 18-22C (64-71F) for 2-4 wks, move to -4 to +4C (24-39F) for 4-6 wks, move to 5-12C (41-53F) for germination . Best if sown immediately after harvest.

I've had no luck direct sowing, at least not so far. Apparently Miss Wilmott herself always carried seeds in her pockets and would surreptitiously sprinkle them in friends' gardens wherever she thought they should be. The friends would be surprised when eventually the plants appeared. I've tried twice so far to no avail... But they could still turn up someday. Meanwhile, I'm trying this way.

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 28, 2013
5:51 AM

Post #9399847

do you have to give Penstemons & Wild Indigo, Veronica & Blue Flax Seeds a cold treament before planting them ??
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 28, 2013
6:20 AM

Post #9399879

For Penstemons it depends what type. Husker Red germinated for me after 40 days in the frig, P Palmeri doesn't need it if the seed is fresh.

Veronica doesn't need it, should germinate at room temp in less than 2 weeks.

Baptisia they say to plant in the fall or winter sow, so that means it does.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 28, 2013
8:45 AM

Post #9400097

Hi All:
Here are 2 websites that describes plants and also gives sowing information. The top one sells seeds and is a seed bank.

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/index.htm

http://tomclothier.hort.net/
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 28, 2013
9:11 AM

Post #9400124

Thanks for reminding me about Hudson. I found info on perennial Helianthus, which tells me I'd better try again. I chilled the first batch and now they are doing nothing. Batch 2 will stay room temp.

I'll add the website to my go-to list, that makes 4... Deno, Clothier, Seedsite are the others.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 28, 2013
9:49 AM

Post #9400172

Pfg,
When I started Helianthus 3 years ago, I chilled the seeds. I put the pan of seeds in my garage for 2 weeks. If you have never grown this plant, give it lots of room. I didn't use Deno for them since the seeds are small. Didn't know then about sowing in peatmoss

The clump gets bigger each year. I started in February and it bloomed the first year. I moved it the following spring with my daughter's help and 2 fork spades. The roots grow large and deep. So plant it were it is to grow.

Below is the plant. It is 2 years old.I grow it next to the fence because it grow to 7 ft and need staking.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 28, 2013
10:57 AM

Post #9400246

Thanks, it's gorgeous! I have one H Maximillian from last year, a seedling planted in the spring that I completely forgot about until it bloomed. This year's version is Lemon Queen, which will be in the same general area along with some tall grasses and other thugs. I know I only need 1 to 2 to start with. I'm planning on using annual sunflowers until the perennials fill in.

So now I have to decide what to do with my remaining seeds. The first batch was at room temp for 2 weeks, then in the frig for 16 days, then back to warm. Somewhere in the middle of the cold spell I thought I saw something beginning to happen, but since then nothing. These seeds don't seem all that small to me...

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 28, 2013
12:40 PM

Post #9400351

You are right, they are not that small. I was comparing them to iris and daylily seeds. For lack of room, I am only growing one plant. I gave the rest to my daughter.

You can divide a plant. That is what my daughter did. She has plenty of space---80 acres in the boonies with sandy soil. They are doing there. They have 6 horses roaming the land, except where her gardens are.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 28, 2013
7:04 PM

Post #9400728

Veronica spicata, 5-10 days, under lights
Veronica gentianoides, 9 days, " "
Baptisia australis (False Indigo), my Alba took 6 days
Baptisia australis " " " , (the blue didn't sprout and stuck in fridge, seed might not be viable not sure, or old), did a couple of years ago and sprouted in 15 days under lights
Penstemon x Mexicallee Psmyers, 9 days under lights
Penstemon palmerii, 13 days under lights
Penstemon (? a gift from a garden club member, only description, large pink flower), 11-12 days, under lights
Penstemon (neighbor's pink), 7 days under lights
Penstemon strictus 7-12 days
Linum perenne Blue Flax (perennial), under lights 27 days, also reseeds in the garden, if your's don't make it, let me know I have hundreds of plants as I've let them reseed as much as they want in the garden. Flowers late spring for approx. 4-6 weeks. Morning blooms and they either close or drop their petals and a gorgeous site if you have a patch of them. When they are done blooming let them drop their seed and then cut back. They last about 3 years before they get ucky, they I just yank them and let the others take over...soooo pretty.
Pix 1-3 flax, pix 2 all the open ground around this plant has been filled in with babies

Blomma..pretty pix, I have both maximillion and Lemon Queen (at my daughter's, I had planted it to hide their airconditioning unit til the trees grew up around it and they did, so it's come home to mama now...)

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 28, 2013
7:07 PM

Post #9400731

Hey blomma what's your centaurea?

Pam keep me in mind come spring if it doesn't sprout, when I movethose plants home they will have to be divided, but you gotta remind me...lol (Notebook time, lol, how long is that list...)

This message was edited Jan 28, 2013 8:11 PM

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 28, 2013
7:50 PM

Post #9400785

My Centaurea? Are you referring to C. macrocephala with yellow thistle like bloom? Where did you see it. Can't remember postin on Daves.

By the way, Flax can also be grown from cuttings, so my huge garden book states. My daughter loves that plant and allows it to grow wild.

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 28, 2013
8:14 PM

Post #9400818

By the way, there is nothing like "old" seeds. If such thing, we would lose many plant varieties/genus. Howeveer, having said that. Many tree seeds and some tropical plants require seeds that are old for them to sprout. But here, "old" is a plus, not a negative. Also in contrast to some statements, some seeds of plants have to be fresh when sown. There again, we would lose plants.

Why?

If you think about it, Nature devised a plan for all varieties of plants not to die out and keep many generation going. How? By assuring that conditions are right for a particular plant seed to germinate and survive. It is called dormancy and why some seeds take longer to sprout than others, depending on where they came from originally.

Seeds from places that receive scant rains will take longer to sprout since in Nature, they will not sprout until the rain comes to assure their survival. Rain may be a certain time of year. Night and day temperature also plays a role.

One fascinating behavior is found in daylilies and irises. As soon as a flower is pollinated, and a pod is developing, the plant alllows food and keeps that stem green. All others without a pod is withheld food, turns brown and dries up. I see this every year and find it awesome. It makes you wonder if plants don't have a brain.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 28, 2013
8:54 PM

Post #9400849

Hey Kathy, those lists are growing!

Blomma, very cool...

Yay, my Digitalis Camelot sprouted.

I decided to plant half my remaining Helianthus seeds in seed starting mix under the dome, and the other half Deno in the frig for 2 weeks. The first batch is still doing nothing.
Aquilegia Maggie Mae and Nora Barlow have been in the frig for 6 weeks and look like they may be opening up. I put them in pots too, with a light sprinkle of vermiculite-- now that I have it, I'm using it, LOL, and put them under the dome.

I also started more Alchemilla, I need a bunch under a PG Hydrangea, and Campanula White Clips, I've promised a few too many to others and need more for myself. And I found a dozen or so more Dianthus Loveliness seeds stuck to the plastic bag and planted those too. I think that's it for a while, at least until I see what comes up. If all goes well with what's done up to now, I don't start anything else until it's time to do the petunias and snaps and other slow annuals next month.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 28, 2013
9:47 PM

Post #9400875

I absolutely love the helianthus and the centaurea. I planted like 15 kinds of seeds in a 128 cell tray yesterday and also did a tray of 2 1/2 inch pots.
A lot of them are from Kathy but some I picked out of the seed robin.
My daughter finally got the new "Bird and Butterfly" garden area cleaned up and ready to plant. This is where I plan on putting all the new flowers and "weeds" for the native wildlife. I'll put the short ones nearest the greenhouse so that they don't shade it too badly. then the tallest will go either right at the top of the hill or maybe even down on the lower tier. I'll alternate the perennials and the annuals so in the off season it will still look good.

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 28, 2013
11:01 PM

Post #9400890

I sowed many of the Aquilegia strains years ago. Problem with them is that they are hybrids so self sow but does not come true from seed, which was disappointing. The hybrids I found are not long-lived.

Pfg instead of using the fridge, why not use the outdoors to stratify seeds. The fridge is cold but it is an even temperature. Whereas outdoor temperature flunctuate, which I found encourages sprouting on those perennials that need it.

domehomedee, I would give 3 weeks for winter climate and 2 weeks for spring/summer climate. The shill is more important than warmth to germinate.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 28, 2013
11:38 PM

Post #9400895

I've been kind of alternating heat and cold. If they don't come up on the mat I take them out to the greenhouse which gets cold at night. I've had a few come up that way that I thought were goners. I'll leave them out there into Spring and the warmer weather as there are some that haven't come up at all and may just come up in Spring if I keep them out there. I've had quite a bit of luck with foxglove, two kinds are up now, yellow and blue. I also have several penstemons, salvias, and asclepias. Oh and some oenotheras too. I'm excited about them, I've only had one oenothera before; horned poppy, and it was an interesting plant, huge seed pods.
Here's another strange one: tinantia. Anyone grown this? I have quite a few up and doing well. I'm not quite sure if they should go in the shade or in the sun so I think I'm going to just put them around my yard and see where they like it. Really nice leaves on them, very woodland looking.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 29, 2013
3:44 AM

Post #9400950

Dome, that will look great! What a nice idea!

Blomma, the CT house is closed for the winter and I'm gardening in a NYC apartment until the end of March. I have 3 shelves with lights in the kitchen window and the frig, that's about it. I'd love a window box or two so I can WS, but our frames are not traditional and I haven't worked out how to do it so the box is secure enough not to fall 11 stories and get smashed. Also we face a courtyard and get very little sun. Pic is from last month, just getting started.

I did set my daughter up this weekend. They have a house a couple of hours away with a big deck safe from wildlife, just perfect for winter sowing. She's just getting into it, 2nd winter there so we started small-ish.

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 29, 2013
11:53 AM

Post #9401402

Sorry meant that as a post to susie on germination times...oooops.
Blomma you didn't post a pix but was next to your Rudbeckia in the above pix...yes I have also that's how I recogonized it as Centaurea, just wasn't sure which one so was asking...lol, always on the look out for different Centaureas, just love 'em...
Dome all the Centaureas (except C. macrocephala , only mid summer), will bloom the WHOLE season, just remember to deadhead...

New seedlings up:
Rose China Rose
Rudbeckia fulgida
Hibiscus moscheutos 'Big And Pretty'
Alcea Creme de Cassis, yum...sooo pretty
Alcea 'Blackwatchman', spose to be 6-8ft, can't hardly wait
Alcea unk variety from seed trade
Cheirianthus allionii

Potting on Digitalis purpurea Pink/purple, here's some pix...

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deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 29, 2013
12:50 PM

Post #9401482

kathy been wanting Alcea Creme de Cassis, So if you have seeds next fall Love to get a few also looking for any DBL HHocks I have none DBL's I hae the Black watchman & Mine was about 8ft this year Love it .

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 29, 2013
1:13 PM

Post #9401581

ok susie...when I get home tonight I will make up a few packets of seed for you. Not sure what I've got on the Creme de Cassis tho, am thinking it was new seed but let me check tonight, might have some older seed. Had some double seed from years ago but will have to look for that also. How's that for an answer...lol. (Have to pick up 4 high schoolers and then back home.) I do have some Creme de Cassis in the garden but not sure if it bloomed last summer...some of my hollyhocks only got to be a foot tall and were overlooked...

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 29, 2013
3:08 PM

Post #9401715

Kathy now I am confused. I don't have a Rudbeckia and don't like them due to their weediness. My son has them.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 29, 2013
3:14 PM

Post #9401719

Oh so sorry was Helianthus pix above (1/28/13, 1049am, 2nd pix, bottom of pix is the Centaurea)

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 29, 2013
5:17 PM

Post #9401895

if anyone has any extra Helianthus I would like to try that also can ya tell me if it would do well in P/SUN also or not ??

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 29, 2013
7:40 PM

Post #9402065

Ok Kathy, you restored my sanity. LOL!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 29, 2013
7:46 PM

Post #9402072

Lol!!!! Seeeeee, I did reconize the foliage...tee hee!! Wasn't sure if us gardeners had any of that...sanity stuff.. Heliopsis, Helianthus, Rudbeckias, all the same family pretty much...

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 29, 2013
8:00 PM

Post #9402088

I was just thinking (dangerous for me) how come none of you gardener gals/guys mention or have a coldframe? I could not garden without one when I was sowing a bunch of perennials. I still use it for extra room for small seedlings of iris and daylilies.

It is a simple box of scrap lumber the size of a door. Was going to use a glassed door but decided to build a frame to hold shade cloth instead. I built it agains a link fence so I could have something to hold up the cover when not needed.

I sowed seeds in the spring and when large enough to handle into the coldframe they would go. I sowed the second batch of seeds in July. By the time August rolled around the first batch were large enough to plant out, leaving room in the coldframe for the second batch of seedlings. These would stay in the coldframe all winter. By spring they were husky plants. They were never babied. It was a test to see how hardy they were. I gardened for years in Massachusetts, then Nebraska. Both had a warmer climate than Wyoming and you never had to water in Mass.

Below is my first coldframe, and my new one filled with iris seedling planted May 2012

I owned and operated a commercial greenhouse in Nebraska specializing in drought resistant perennials for the midwest. Plus houseplants. Coming from Massachusetts it was a learning experience and a culture shock.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 29, 2013
9:02 PM

Post #9402126

I did a lot of potting up in the last couple of days. My shelves are starting to fill in. I had to order more 2 1/2" pots from Greenhouse Megastore. I didn't bring in enough from the house so now I'm almost out. I like theirs because they are 3 1/2" deep instead of 2 1/2" like most, more root room in less space. While I was at it I ordered some 3 1/2" which are also deep, to use instead of the 4" which I am also running low on, to save some space. For one thing I can fit 8 into my little propagator instead of 6. Doesn't seem like a lot- especially when I look at what you're doing, Kathy! - but it makes a difference to me.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 29, 2013
9:14 PM

Post #9402130

Blomma, where in Mass? I'm from Lexington... It's been years since I've been back...

I had a cold frame on LI. I loved it! It had a solar powered vent that opened when the temp got to 70 inside to keep the little darlings from cooking, and a bunch of water bottles that would heat up during the day and keep the temp up at night. I haven't figured out yet where to put one in CT. Meanwhile I use a mini-greenhouse. I hang a piece of Reemay behind the door and leave the zippers open, with clothespins so it doesn't blow wide open, and put a couple of 1/2 gallon jugs of water on the bottom shelf. In the spring I use it constantly to park and/ or harden off whatever can take it cool- perennials, snapdragons, eventually tomatoes...

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 29, 2013
11:10 PM

Post #9402155

Pfg,
I lived in Gt Barrington for 20 years. Moved up from Long Island, NY where we rented.so didn't get into gardening. Didn't know what I was missing back then. LOL!

Holy Cow! You sure had a fancy coldframe. Are you sure that is what it was?.

I now have the same setup that you show above, including the cover. Bought it last spring from the Dollar Store to hold all my Daylily seedling.

Since I really needed a bunch of pots, I bought foam coffe pots from Walmart. That is what the daylilies are in. A screwdriver easily punches hold for drainage. I wash mine and reuse them. They take writing with a marker and Whiteout covers any writing. When I ship plants, that is what they come in. I prefer them over plastic for they insulate the roots and are light weight.

Below is mine with 156 seedlings in 2012 before warm enought to plant in the nursery.

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 30, 2013
6:35 AM

Post #9402360

Oh yes, it was a cold frame, home made but great. My ex dug it down about 1 foot and lined the sides with plywood, made a slanted frame for the top, then put an old window on it. The vent was a hinged arm that pushed the top up a few inches depending on temp. I have one now, but can't figure out how to attach it to what I have now. I'm looking at a similar upright setup from Gardener's Supply maybe for this year, I could put the solar vent under one of the top openings, or even sideways behind one of the doors. I'd still use Reemay as a critter barrier, I think..

http://www.gardeners.com/Patio-Grow-House/39-315,default,pd.html?start=2&cgid=GreenhousesSheds_CompactGreenhouses
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 30, 2013
8:14 AM

Post #9402456

OK, now I'm back to the question of mini-blinds. HD, JCPenny, KMart around here have lots of cheapo 1" but the 1/2" are special order and $$$$$. Do you just get whatever costs less and cut them? Or are the narrow ones more available where you are?

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 30, 2013
9:32 AM

Post #9402520

Cheaper the better just make sure they are vinal The ptouch lables stick better & Last Longer.
or #2 lead pencil writes on them well also .

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 30, 2013
12:24 PM

Post #9402714

My mini-blind slats ARE 1" wide. I got them (they looked new) from a Habitat for Humanity "restore". I think it was $3 or $5 for a lifetime supply. Waste not, want not!

I often cut my mini-blinds in half or even thirds, to get tiny narrow labels for trays of inserts or propagation cells ("plug trays"). Plus, they hold the Saran Wrap up off the soil surface.)

I like a 0.9 mm mechanical pencil for writing on blind slats. It leaves a wider, darker mark, and it's always sharp!

0.7 mm leads are OK, but I often break the 0.5 mm lead when I try to add lots of text in fine print.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 30, 2013
3:41 PM

Post #9402969

I had a garden friend send me a bunch of labels he had made. They were from 1" wide blinds and 10" long. He folded it right where the hole for the rope would go. It staples at the ends. He recommended using a pencil to mark with.

Try finding used blind at the Salvation Army, or stores that sell used items.

This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 4:42 PM

RickCorey_WA

RickCorey_WA
Everett, WA
(Zone 8a)

January 30, 2013
3:59 PM

Post #9402992

>> He folded it right where the hole for the rope would go.

Or you can punch a hole for a string in vinyl blind slats with a paper-punch. If the hand-held kind gets tiring, borrowing a three-hole punch with a lever handle makes it easy.

I never considered stapling a string to a slat and tying it to a branch. I stick them in the soil where they are too far away to read easily!.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

January 30, 2013
5:39 PM

Post #9403142

No stapling the 2 ends of the blinds together after it is folder around the plants. Guess I wasn't clear.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 30, 2013
6:05 PM

Post #9403187

blomma, I don't have a cold frame as such...lol. But what I do have is a horse stall on the backside of the garage, 13ft wide x 15-18 ft deep (can't remember). I use 12 or 14 mil plastic to enclose the whole thing and move plants out as they grow a bit and I've potted them on for a few weeks... Only those things that can handle to cooler temps go out first. Dianthus, daisies, Verbascums, ie. plants that begin bloom earliest in the season. I also cover the plants as needed with a sheet of remay til they toughen up a bit. It's located on the west side but the sun doesn't hit it til after 12pm and the trees and the top of the hill cut off direct sun about 3-4pm. I vent by pulling back the plastic as the season progresses, but only when needed. I have two cold frames on the backside of the house I built several years ago til I went to the back of the garage where the corral area is located. There's also enough room in the corral (which is fenced) to put up an 8x10 greenhouse..may plastic it in again just not sure yet as the wind is very nasty on that side and I've had problems with it a few years ago...It's a wind tunnel area...

Pix 1 tree line above me to the west, edge of corral gate on the right, 5 of the 7 trees on the 5 acre property are located toward the top
Pix 2 is the area where the wind comes from in spring, and the location my summer rain deluges come from in July, (MY backyard pix where I've been installing my landscaping this fall ('12), so far put in 167 trees and shrubs. this spring and summer most of the babies I'm growing now will be going in...(the pots are 170+ Iris g. that went in late November, around and inbetween shrubs).

I use the 1" mini blinds from walmart $3-5ish ( the widest for the cheapest...), I cut them apart into approx 1/2"x21/2", bigger if needed, have used Sharpie(perm.) markers but they fade after a few years, at 6800 ft. that probably more often than those that live at a lower altitude...am experimenting with with 2 different lablers to see which I like best and is sunfast for me...

More potting on today, will get back to it after supper of when I get done goofing around here...lol...No No Don't get the whip out!!!!!

Hey pam ...is there something wrong with my eyesight or is there something wrong with your pix????? LOL. (last nights post, am supprised noone said anything yet...lol...see I do look at the pix here...

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 30, 2013
7:55 PM

Post #9403324

Hmmmm... What's wrong? I talked about the cold frame, no pics of that, then mentioned the mini- greenhouse, 2 pics of that from last year...

Thanks all for the info on the blinds. So 1" it is... They're not quite as cheap here, but DD got one in NJ in her neighborhood for 2.97.

Kathy, how long have you been working on this project? 5 acres is massive! I've seen pics of areas that look very established, you must have been at it for a while.

My main area is 2 or 3 acres, but the main landscaping is very established, and in some areas, very old. My challenge has been to clean it up and renew it after a long period of decline. Of course I want to add more variety and express my creativity as well, lol.
Pics 1-3 are from 2008. I was already busy with the Roundup.
Pic 4 is 2011, the section which was almost solid ferns, except for goldenrod, raspberries and whatever else could squeeze itself in there.
Pic 5 is last summer. The shrubs that had the bittersweet in them are halfway down on the right. This level is getting better, but still three levels more with lots left to work on...

This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 11:02 PM

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 31, 2013
12:59 PM

Post #9403925

Pix on 1-29 1002pm...lol, was it a bit late that nite, (enlarge). Let me know when you figure it out.

Have been here 5 years I think, gosh how time flies or is it six? Anyway, I moved in the fall and couldn't start anything til the following spring, I remember starting seeds that first winter. Plowed 1 acre that first spring. Then began laying out my areas. First area I began on is the main border, (has taken years to fill it in). Considering I grew most of the plants in my 40ft wide X 100ft long main garden. Am thinking it's pretty much filled with plants now and just am looking for it to fill in so I can see what I have...Editing comes next and fill occasional open areas with annuals and a few perenns.

That same spring I laid out holding beds, 3ft wide and 25-35ft long, am thinking I had about 15 beds. This is where I would plant all my seedlings til I got around to getting them into the main border, planting most about 8" apart. Much easier to keep track of babies that way...atleast when I started... It was fun cuz I could go out into the garden and say "Gosh, I wanna plant 10 of these and another 7 of that and 3 of this and another 7 of that in this area of the border" and could go out to the holding beds and dig out what I needed. Now, sad to say, the feild grasses have taken back most of it. Will be trying to reclaim this coming year...I didn't wanna use round up but am ready this time to do such... I will start out this spring rototilling what I can cuz I already have many of the shrubs linned out in the backyard inbetween those that are part of my now landscaped backyard.

This is the reason for growing soo many babies. I'm not sure yet as to what will be going in where this coming season, but atleast I will have the plants and can pick and choose as I need. Am hoping most of the flowers I'm growing from seed now will be going into the backyard. The BONES are in so now onto decorating my new room!!!!

I have some other areas that had been started a few years ago but but didn't get to much last summer due to the heat and so many forest fires in the region, seemed like the smoke was a daily occurance and I just stayed out of it...I am hoping this year is better!!!!!! I wish our drought would end now!!! I hate spending time doing nothing but watering..I got goodies to plant!!!! I wanna get back to playing and enjoying myself out there...lol. I do know that come spring I'm going back to using my alarm clock...up at dawn...

Hey...I thought deer slept at night...had one on the front porch at 11:30 pm...how bad is that, went out and chased it off...

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 31, 2013
2:04 PM

Post #9403997

Just love the pix Pam...in a way I wished I already had mature trees and shrubs, but then again am glad I have an open palette which to work and play...I get to plant those things that "I" want...and where "I" want them. I am looking forward to seeing and smelling my Lilacs, Yoshino cherry tree, Linden tree, Spiareas, Roses, Viburnums, Weigelia and Hydrangeas bloom in the coming years...and My Cecise canadensis...got 3. Oh and one of my favs, Mock Orange!!! Oooh and Honeysuckle too!

Pix 1&2 the last area of the border that was planted ( 1)before planting, (2) some planted (looking south)
Pix 3 show it was finished and things beginning to knit (see how small everything looks, yikes!! (looking north,downhill)
Pix 4&5 are from last summer (looking north downhill), there are about 2500+ plants out there, let me tell ya that's alot of seeds!!!!

Pix got rearranged oops, pix 3 was suppose to have been #1

This message was edited Jan 31, 2013 3:06 PM

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 31, 2013
2:52 PM

Post #9404031

I think you're talking about the pic of my NY window set-up followed by the WS project I got my daughter into. They just moved into their house fall of 2011 and need everything.

The first summer they tried a few things that for one reason or another didn't work out... The deer got some stuff, the irrigation wasn't working right, and the last straw was that kid they hired to mulch buried all the little babies I'd started for her, that she'd nurtured for a couple of months. He's history, lol! This year she wants to get serious. They have this big elevated deck, perfect for WS, and there isn't that much room inside for seeds without making a mess. So last weekend we spent a day getting her going. Their local nursery has Pro Mix, but for pots we had to use Solo cups, I was already getting low. Now I have plenty, my order came today from Greenhouse Megastore.

I guess the grass is always greener... I love what you've done, and I love seeing the before and along the way. Lucky you to have a space to bring up the babies... So you can go 'shopping' on your own property... I usually have a collection of pots sitting around that I don't know what to do with, and I usually lose a few This year I bought a bunch of decent sized self-watering pots on sale at Wal-mart, about a dozen, I figured I'll stick a bunch of babies in those so they don't get neglected and croak. If they do anything good I can always find some place they'll be appreciated. But boy, would I ever love a nursery bed...

You and I have been at it about the same amount of time. In 2007, the first year, I went to CT, I tried to be subtle...two reasons: One, I knew it would be a huge job to turn the place around and I wasn't sure I wanted it (my first thought was. ('Ooooohhhhhhh S***!!!), and Two, new relationship, didn't want to seem too aggressive (lol, I guess he saw through that!). Now we're newlyweds, but the jig has been up in the garden since that summer. By the end of it I ruled.

Isn't it fun to be able to play with mature-ish plantings, begin to make real statements instead of all that babying--- and killing! I don't have even one picture from 2009 because everything was so ugly... Either dead or dying, or minuscule, or bare brown earth. Last year I barely used Roundup at all for the first time. I will have to again this spring because I let a section get away from me that had been cleared, now it's a mess again and there's some nasty stuff in it. I meant to lay down cardboard on it this fall but never got to it. So if I want to plant this spring I have to get drastic. Oh well... Win some, lose some... But not for long! HAH! I rule! Lolol...

Nothing new in the nursery, except that I got a blind and made a bunch of 2" tags, and another bunch of 6" for later and still have enough for 20 times that at least.

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deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 31, 2013
3:35 PM

Post #9404072

Pam I Think Kathy meant your pic in
Pfg
January 30, 2013
12:02 Am Post #9402126 your pic is up-side down :))))) I've had that happen before & Noway to correct after we post them :)

your all welcome to come join us fora seed valentine swap
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1296313/#new
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 31, 2013
3:50 PM

Post #9404092

How funny, I see that when it's small, but when I click on it and it gets big, it looks right. Oops! I've taken the last few with my new iPad, and wasn't quite sure which way was up. I guess I'd better pay attention!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 31, 2013
6:51 PM

Post #9404294

LOL...I thought I was the only one who saw that...guess I was til I mentioned it... I enlarged to see what was growing and it looked a bit odd to say the least!!! Just joking with ya!!!

Been splitting up things, taking out and dividing between several more pots so they have room to grow. Tried potting some things on as individuals but just a bit smallish yet, maybe next week...Been giving hair cuts also, turn pot over and clip, clip. Will make them branch lower also instead of single stem (ie Dianthus and Asclepias, snaps )usually this happens by the 3 or 4 set of leaves), when they go out this spring they will have had several cuts so should be bushy. Am waiting for the seed trade to arrive (next week) so I can see if there are some new goodies to try...
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

January 31, 2013
7:01 PM

Post #9404311

That's a good tip, I'll have to try it. What about Campanula? I have some White Clips and some purple I haven't started yet.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

January 31, 2013
7:22 PM

Post #9404341

I'll give most of them haircuts if and when they are big enough. Some such as daisies and Verbascum don't get hair cuts...Platys and campanulas would also be great, remember not to count the first set of leave as true leaves cuz they aren't, they will eventually fall off. That's why I wait til they have two or more TRUE leaves before haircuts happen.
I even root prune too. Those I was working on earlier today got half their roots trimmed, much easier to get into plug style trays. When they get transplanted into the trays I cover again for a day or two if I think they need the extra TLC.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 1, 2013
8:02 AM

Post #9404748

Campanulas got haircuts...


Edited to say. Oops! Forgot DG doesn't like vertical photos!

This message was edited Feb 1, 2013 11:04 AM

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 1, 2013
12:06 PM

Post #9405002

wow, Campanulas look great!!!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 3, 2013
7:59 AM

Post #9406802

Kathy, you asked about Ceratotheca triloba, South African Foxglove a while ago...

Pic is today. It sprouted on 1/15 after 4 days, Deno method, then moved into cells. I just lost one, these 9-cell packs don't quite hit the capillary matting and dry out.

For some reason the holes in the bottom are slightly raised and have to be pushed down hard when I fill them, which I didn't realize at first. Even that doesn't always work. I've moved a few things into other containers and watch the rest carefully now that I know. Good thing we're going to be around for the next few weeks. By the time we go away again in March they'll all be in different containers. I won't use those packs again unless I can figure a way to make them more reliable. I can't imagine putting wicks in every single cell, too much fiddling, I do enough already. I just got some 6-packs which look better, and the wide ones are fine. And to think I bought all new this year just to prevent this problem. Last year some re-cycled cell packs were indented on the bottom and I lost some seedlings... Grrrrr...

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 3, 2013
8:24 AM

Post #9406837

Oops- I can see by the copyright that it posted upside down again...it's impossible for me to tell otherwise, it looks normal on my iPad. But I think I have it figured out now...

A breath of spring or two to brighten up Super Bowl Day... A few friends are coming over later for the game. I'm making beef stew with cognac, a recipe gotten from a friend years ago, perfect for a cold February day.

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KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 3, 2013
10:29 AM

Post #9406991

Aww, sorry you had to lose any of them. They are flimsy on the bottom, so I can see how that would happen. Darn!
The blooms sure brighten up the indoors in the winter!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 3, 2013
12:38 PM

Post #9407132

LOL...too funny on your photos...how do you keep water in your forsythia vase? ooops!!! lol!!! I know, shut up!!!

Love your spring flowers!!!!!! Hey, did you know your tulips will continue to grow, give'm a few days and see what I mean...just resnip the bottoms off. Most pople don't realize, lol... But make sure you smell them for me PLEASE!!!!
yum!!!

Newly sprouted this week:Daisy (48") Becky, Daucus carota Rubra ( am excited about this one as is very RARE, it's Biennial, about 24-36" and red, I got it in my first trade about 20 years ago and just came across the seed the other day and thought I would give it a try, I only grew it once but thought I'd love to try again...Sure hope I collected the right seed, lol...), Monarda Lambada, Alcea rosea dark red, Nicotiana sylvestris ( I know a bit early but I just couldn't resist...duh..lol), I will literally have tons of this...(any takers come spring let me know)
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 3, 2013
2:06 PM

Post #9407221

I did know about the tulips, just love them when they start to wave around gracefully instead of sticking straight up like little soldiers...

The forsythia vase is a long, tall one, water lasts for quite a while but I do top it up from time to time. The tulips need it more often.

The Daucus sounds interesting. I'm doing Orlaya this year instead of Ammi Majus, similar look, yes? But I know yours is pink, or red or something, mine is white.

My only new sprouts are new batches of Alchemilla, Campanula and Danthus Loveliness. They popped right up. I'm still waiting for the Veronicas, Verbascums, Aquilegias, and a bunch of other recalcitrants.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 3, 2013
6:42 PM

Post #9407473

I've had a lot sprout the last two days. A couple of nicotianas, dark red rose of sharon, dill, hawkweed, coreopsis, there are others, just can't remember. I put in two dozen plants and probably two hundred seeds in the new "butterfly garden" yesterday. Today I started Spring cleaning and re-organizing the greenhouse for my first plant sale of the season next weekend. I have lots of new 4" succulents ready and still have lots of gallon pots with geraniums and other perennials. I'm interested in your red daucus carota, be sure and post us a picture next summer when it blooms. I'm not so patiently waiting for the other mallows to germinate, I have quite a few colors and I think they will look great in the butterfly garden. I have some orlaya seeds too, can I just sow them in the garden in place?

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 4, 2013
9:41 AM

Post #9408102

Seems to me I've grown the orlaya in the past...if I remember right the flowers were more open than the Ammi tho. And I did start them inside, so can't comment on if they can be done insitu. Where did you get your seed, a trade?

Pam, am not sure if they are an Ammi or Daucus. Both are the same family (carrots). Am thinking they were labled as Ammi majus rubra (but listed as biennial). 'Spose to be 3-6ft. I grew them in 2003, seems like they only got to 30". Then I moved and forgot about them. Dome.. just made up a packet for you and am thinking I will include in the seed trade when it gets here this week so others can give it a try. Dome anything else you want, lol, don't wanna send just 1 packet...I know I sent you a bunch of goodies a few weeks ago but anyhting else you can think of? LOL.

Ky...how's the weather down south?

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 4, 2013
10:18 AM

Post #9408132

Kathy - I hate to have you send me more seeds, it was so nice of you to send the first batch. I can wait until next year.
I got my orlaya in a trade, I've got quite a few annuals that I thought I could give a try at just putting the seed out. Our weather is already warming here so they will have plenty of time to do there thing. If I do it now it will be easy to keep them damp.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 4, 2013
10:56 AM

Post #9408164

I got Orlaya in a trade, forgot that I had also ordered it from Parks. My Ammi never got over 3'- maybe that's the difference between it and Daucus? Or maybe it's just local conditions. I don't have totally full blazing sun even in my hottest areas, and we almost never get more than a couple of weeks of really high temps in one stretch.

But speaking of seeds, you wouldn't have any more P palmerii, would you? I hate to ask, I can't believe it's been such a challenge for me! The last few seeds are doing nothing, but that was always a long shot, everything else germinated long before and got smothered one way or another before I learned what they want :(

My one Pp seedling is right in the middle of Pic 1.

Still waiting for Veronicas, Verbascums and a bunch of other stuff... Some got stratified and aren't due yet...

Everything else is doing fine- look how cute the little Alchemillas are! I just love them! And the Platys are moving along, I'll have plenty to plant when the time comes...

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KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 4, 2013
12:17 PM

Post #9408259

It just snowed for thirty minutes--and stopped. We still have patches of the 2" from a few days ago. Thankfully, it's not bitter cold out!
I got zone envy when I read Dee's posts...lol.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 4, 2013
12:22 PM

Post #9408268

Don't we all!!

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 4, 2013
5:41 PM

Post #9408642

LOL...Nope I get jelous when I read of those getting snow!!!!!! LOL...
Ok, Pam I've got two packs for ya...penstemon p. and Ammi majus rubra, anything else????? Just ask!!! Since you have a box of plants coming this spring remind me to send you some veronica and some verbasums, don't worry about the seed, just remember to put on your list to remind me. I have sooooooo many verbascums in the garden!!!! And I'll be dividing my veronicas, time to split them up before they get a hole in the middle, it's been 3 or 4 years now... Did you get the vermiculite? Am thinking you said you had, might try giving some of your babies 1/16-1/8 dusting around those seedlings that are iffy...might do the trick...or atleast try on 1 plant and see what kind of results you get... Your platys look great, mine are still in their 1rst pot..am waiting for them to get some size before moving up...Have bee working on dividing some of my pots that have a gazillion plants into them, like all my different Digitalis, oh my I will have tons of babies!!!!! Just to make sure I will have some that bloom this season I had started a pot of Foxy too, lol... is spring here yet... I know, I have to wait til May!!!!
Am getting excited...the box will be here in a few days!!! Yeah, my turn to get goodies!!!

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 4, 2013
6:04 PM

Post #9408659

Oh you'll enjoy the "box", I didn't think I would find much of interest in there and I found myself taking little bits out of 40 types of seed, and that was like 1/10th of the types of seed in there! I'm getting some germination from them already. I think what I got most excited about was all the annuals. We don't do a lot of annuals in California, so many perennials grow well here that most people think they're just too much trouble. They're all just new to me so it's going to be fun to try them. They'll probably all go invasive here and I'll have fence to fence flowers every Spring, LOL.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 4, 2013
6:41 PM

Post #9408719

What a LOVELY sight!!!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 4, 2013
6:49 PM

Post #9408729

Fence to fence flowers sound great!

Kathy, I did get vermiculite. It worked well for the Digitalis, just a light sprinkle. I put a dusting- less than 1/8" -around the Veronicas and Verbascums, and nothing has surfaced yet. I took more seeds of each the other day and did the Deno method.

The Verbascum Wedding Candles seed is from a volunteer plant from last summer. The parent (purchased) bloomed two years ago and vanished. Was I ever surprised to see it in the rock wall! Pic 1 is the secondary bloom, the first was just one long spike, pic 2. I have no idea where the roots found room... In this pic it's just above the lichen-covered rock near the bottom in the middle, sticking out sideways from left to right.

I still have more seeds of that, if you want some.

One of the Veronicas is a low-growing blue. I got it from Bluestone last summer, only 1 of 3 made it, but it was lovely and I'd like more. The other is Fairytale, a silvery pink from the robin, which is new for me. So I'll keep trying...

I actually have a lot of a Veronicas, if you want some: Sunny Border Blue, V incana Pure Silver, Icicle, Eveline, Romiley Purple, Red Fox... I love them all.

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 4, 2013
8:15 PM

Post #9408809

Pfg,
Are you stratifying Veronicas and Verbascums? I believe they need coldness, followed by warmer temp to break dormancy. Many perennials take their time to sprout. Annuals sprout pretty quick cause they know they don't have all the time to set seeds that perennials have. I also found that not all varieties in the same genus require the same sowing techniques, including temp.

I love the center photo above. So lush with plants. Question. Why do you close your house for the winter and live in an apartment? Is it just a summer house?. It would drive me nuts to have to go back and forth.

All you gals are really doing a lot of sowing. Brings back memories. I used to do many also. Did 54 varieties of different plants back in 2002 when I bought my house and not a plant was here. I went nuts figuring where to put them all. Now I am content doing just iris and daylily seeds. My daughter does her own sowing---finally.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 5, 2013
2:31 AM

Post #9408894

Blomma, according to Clothier they don't need it, should germinate in less than 2 weeks at 68. I use a heat mat since it can get quite cold in the window, but this year I have a thermostat, and the temps have been fluctuating between 68-71.

After years of city-based careers, even after retirement we're still city dwellers who love country weekends and vacations in the summer. I do miss the garden in the winter, but the house is very old and not well insulated, making heating it difficult and expensive. Most of our friends leave then, too. We're used to the back-and-forth, but it does take some organization, I can tell you!

Edited for spelling

This message was edited Feb 6, 2013 9:37 AM
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 6, 2013
6:46 AM

Post #9410051

One (1) Helianthus Lemon Queen sprouted, in a pot filled with MG seed starting mix, covered with 1/8-1/4" vermiculite, on a heat mat set to 72, average temp 69-71, under a dome. I have a total of 3 batches sown 3 ways. The first was Deno in the frig for 5 weeks, then under the dome (still in the baggy). The 2nd, sown at the same time as the one that just sprouted, is also Deno but not chilled, also under the dome.

Last year I also got one plant of H Laetiflorus, germinated at room temp.

Does anyone have experience with these?

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 6, 2013
11:19 AM

Post #9410281

Sorry Pam, I can't remember if I bought my origional plant(s) or grew from seed, can't look up since origional seed germination book was lost...I'm almost thinking I got them from Bluebird Nursery as a 3 pack more than 10 years ago, and my plants will be comming home this spring so if you need!!! Also thanks on the Verbascum, I've started Verbascum chaxii Alba which is 36"x18">. Also got some seed from the Netherlands in a trade: V. blattaria Alba (moth mullein), 6ftx24">, (not up yet). (LOVE that platty above, can't wait til it blooms for me too!!)

Stopped at H.D. yesterday, got 4 more light units and a roll of plastic so I can get my outdoor section set up..Been potting on some of the digitalis and figure they might be able to go out in a few weeks, but need to warm the area when I get the plastic up..

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 9, 2013
12:58 PM

Post #9413276

Just went thru the robin and got a bunch of goodies...now have to decide what to start next...lol.

Here's some new pix from today...

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KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 9, 2013
1:46 PM

Post #9413337

Wow!!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 9, 2013
2:55 PM

Post #9413396

I must say, Kathy, every time I see your pics I turn green, LOL! I just have to keep reminding myself that I'm not trying to fill up a prairie... But oh, the luxury of that much raw space speaks to me!

Meanwhile, I'm making some progress, too. Helianthus Lemon Queen gave me a new sprout today, that makes 2. Yippee!

I set up a reflector for my lights, using materials at hand, namely cardboard and foil. I may adjust the design a bit so only did 1 so far, for the top shelf, which I am just starting to use.

I was running out of room again since I still need both domes up on the smaller trays for germination and new starts, and some of my second batches are needing growing room. C White Clips filled out really fast. Alchemilla and D Loveliness are a little slower to come, but it won't be that long. Also, a few things are getting some height now, particularly the Salvia x Turkestiani and the S Nekon.

And just look at the little Campanulas after the haircut! Sooooo cute!

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 9, 2013
2:59 PM

Post #9413397

New reflector

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Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 9, 2013
3:45 PM

Post #9413433

I had my first "home plant sale" for the year. I have lots of those little 4" pots with succulents for $2 and gallon pots of various plants for $3.
I advertised on Craigslist and put a sign out on the road. I had like 12 groups of people stop by and sold almost $200. in plants. Wow, that's the best sale yet. Met some really nice people too. Inspires me to keep seeding.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 9, 2013
3:58 PM

Post #9413450

Good for you, What a windfall! 200 great reasons to keep on seeding!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 10, 2013
2:01 PM

Post #9414430

Today I did more transplanting of tiny sprouts.

The Digitalis Camelot were easy. I did D Pam's Split yesterday, and all look good.

The Dianthus are very young, but the cotyledons were well developed and I had the time today to do it. Much to my dismay, there was barely any root at all.

The Aquilegias, on the other hand, had such long taproots on the largest seedlings I couldn't believe it! They've only been up for a couple of days- they do a lot af work underground before we see them! Some came out nearly bare root. I hope they don't mind the disturbance. To be on the safe side, I planted several much smaller ones that were'nt so developed. Are Aquilegias known to resent being moved? Does anyone have experience with them?

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 10, 2013
2:45 PM

Post #9414469

Pfg,
I have started many different varieties of Aquilegias from seed and never had problems moving them. I don't care for the hybrid for they don't come true from seed and the original dies out. The only one I like is the A. chrysanthea, shown in the first photo. It never changes from seed because it is not a hybrid.

The 2nd one is A. 'Red Star', and the 3rd is A. 'William Guiness'

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Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 10, 2013
3:25 PM

Post #9414520

I'm glad to here the Aquilegias are going to be easy to move out of the pots. I have a few of the A. chrysanthea in 4" pots. They are really tiny now but I'm sooo excited about having them germinate. I"ve tried to germinate from seeds off of my other Aquilegias in the past with no luck. I have been moving more seedlings today. I had so many Lobelia siphilicia germinate that I had to divide them. I have 2 and half flats of 4" pots with like a dozen seedlings each in them. That's alot. But we love Lobelia around here so I'm sure it will all get planted and look great by next summer. We're heading down to the beach tonight for a shrimp cocktail and a drink. Low tide is at 4:30 and sunset is 5:30 so it should be fun to go for a walk out at the tide pools.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 10, 2013
4:28 PM

Post #9414621

Both Dianthus and Aquilegia are easy to transplant..as are the Digitalis...
Finshed going thru the box and did some restocking, put in more Columbines a mix of several and short spur blue, yup, love the chrysanthas too and one of the newer ones Denver's Gold which is fragrant!!! So sweet.
Love that William Guiness, if you have any extra seed or remember to collect this season, I would love to replace, somewhere along the way I've lost them...Shucks!

Oh my, I have soo much to get potted on...lol. I've been dividing things up into a few pots to allow them to get a bit more growth before potting individually...Now if I had my other stand I could do all of them...lol. Nope trying to keep the costs down.. Will be trying to do those first that can go out...

We had snow last night...thought we were going to get a bunch (2") then petered out...lol. Think we got an inch or so...Maybe!!!

Dome...Wow...great job..I been thinking about doing the same, selling some babies but I live off in the boonies...Heck, who knows...Very inspiring tho!!!!!!! Hey, $2-3 sounds rather cheap, aren't you worth more than that? LOL. If they scarffed them up that quick might try and raise prices another dollar... But wow, I'm impressed, good for you!!!!!!!!!! And yes keep seeding, and if you need more, just hollar!!! (and I mean it don't hesitate to ask for any that I have...am glad to share!!!!). And have a great time at the beach..sounds wonderful.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 10, 2013
6:35 PM

Post #9414752

I know, I should charge more. But I really just like to share and the money just goes to buying more pots and soil amendments. I know last vacation I found this succulent nursery way off the beaten path and she was charging $6 a pot and I didn't bat an eye. Maybe I'll raise my prices some and see how it goes. Thanks for the seed offer. I'll keep it in mind, you have such interesting plants.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 10, 2013
7:59 PM

Post #9414818

I don't have that Aquilegia anymore. As I stated, the hybrids tend to have a shorter lifespan than non hybrids, and just disappears.

Domehomedee,
the best way to germinate Aquilegia is to stratify them. I had a heck of a time getting them to sprout. Then I put the container in my garage for 3 weeks to alternate freezing. When bought inside, they germinated. Or you can leave the container covered on the north side of a building and they will sprout in the spring. It is a perfect plant to use to winter sow.

The seeeds of A. chrysanthea, sprout on their own where the mother plant grows. It is almost weedy. I grow mine on the north side of the garage.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 10, 2013
8:41 PM

Post #9414855

Blomma, I'm glad to hear you've written off dealing with a lot of the hybrids. My only success years ago was collecting seeds from a purple one in a very old garden. I stuck them in a planter in the fall, had seedlings in the spring, and enjoyed them for years afterwards.

My current aquilegia were in the frig for about 6 weeks, out for 10 days or so before germination. Christa Barlow came up a few days ago, nothing yet from Maggie Mae. On our property we have what looks like the McKanas in all colors running wild all over the place in the spring, but so far this is the first time I've had any luck with new varieties. I've tried WSing and fall sowing in the past, with commercial seed and seed from trade, to no avail.

I just couldn't believe the length of the roots on these little babies! No way to get them in the new pot without some disturbance, and some things don't forgive you for that. But tonight they all look fine, so far, so good. Glad to hear no one has had trouble moving them.

Dome, good to hear Lobelia Siphilitica is so easy to germinate. From what I read, it looked difficult. That's another plant that comes up here and there for me, and I love it. I've collected seeds but have not yet tried to do anything with them. BTW, You're killing me with the sunset beach cocktails...

Kathy, you could easily become a show garden plus sales that people would travel to the boonies for...

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 11, 2013
5:39 AM

Post #9415066

SIGN Me up for a tour of your gardens Kathy :) if my seed growing dose not work out i hope that I can rely on a few from you all :))) off to town back later

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 11, 2013
8:11 AM

Post #9415309

Thanks for the compliment pam!!! But you make me giggle...show garden, yup hope so...for me...lol. Maybe when I can get my ---- together lol... I know I spend too much time on my gardens..but love it so. I still have soo much I should be doing for my house yet...kitchen is still not done...soooo much remodeling to do yet...but my flowers give me soo much pleasure.. I wanted to make it a plant nursery years ago but just don't think it will happen. Can't get my plants big enough by May when people want big plants (1gallon) not just a 21/2" pot.

Susie...absolutely, when they are hardened off enough this spring to make the trip, goodies will be coming your direction... and by the way...still working on your plans...so I won't be putting them in the box. Anyway I figured out they wouldn't get there til March or so...am hoping I can get them mailed brfore then, lo...ok I'll get back to work on them again...

Pam...remember you can trim roots of those plants that need it usually without any harm...but don't do it to those with a tap root>>>>> When I was transplanting my Digitalis I cut half the rootball off and they are just doing fine now and are growing great.

I've never done anything (chilling) for my Aquilegias. Will have to pot them on in the next few days tho.

Pix 1&2 digitalis, am thinking I trimmed the roots on tray 1(Alba), tho not on 2 (Pink-purple)
Pix 3 Aquilegia c. Yellow fragrant, A.Maggie Mae, A. Short Spur Blue, A. Short Spur Pink, A. Neighbor's mix, A. Sweet Rainbows, A. Chocolate Soldier, A. v. Winky Double Rose-white, A. vulgaris stelata 'Christa Barlow', will all get roots trimmed, potting on this week. All sprouted 7-14 days no chilling nor bottom heat, just lights and a dome over the tray.
Pix 4 my Lobelia cardinalis, nothing on my siphalitica yet (oh and I want it soooo..lol.)

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 11, 2013
8:33 AM

Post #9415329

I think you'd be surprised if you offered 'starter' plants. There's a place not so near us that does, much cheaper to buy a dozen babies than 1 big one and cut it up. I've been unhappy with their choices the last couple of years, lots of annual herbs, sempervivums and flowering plants have been mostly harsh reds and oranges, not much in the ranges I usually prefer. Also their big plants are too $$$$. But we have schlepped there every year when they start up Memorial Day Weekend, and again in early July when they try to sell out. That's where I got my perennial osteospermum, I have no idea where they got the seed.

What I'm saying is, not everyone wants to spend a lot to get a garden going or to add a few new things... Who was it that said, 'If you build it they will come?' LOL...

I was about to ask you about Maggie Mae... I should try again and not chill, sounds like she doesn't need it.

Also meant to ask, was there any of my white 'knautia,' aka Cephalaria left in the robin?

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 11, 2013
9:01 AM

Post #9415362

Didn't see any...and I'm not having any luck yet with mine. I finally put them in the fridge, will pull back out at the end of the month. And remember it's not Knautia if it's over 30-36"...(lol, just teasing ya). Have added A. chrysantha yellow (fragrant), seed is from 2003 but should sprout...mine started on 12-29-12 and forgot to write germination date...ooops, but is still germinating out from under the dome. Thought it was in the pix above but isn't... Also added more Maggie Mae. Your goodies are in a seperate envelope ...just take out what you don't want or need, cross off your name and put into the baggie from me so others might take them...(or keep them!!! lol.)

Ok...gotta finish the box ...
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 11, 2013
11:00 AM

Post #9415512

Too funny, when we left in early August for 6 weeks it looked normal... Who knew it would get like that?! I was totally shocked-- Knautia on steroids, lol!

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 11, 2013
5:45 PM

Post #9416030

blomma, you know the aquilegia I tried to sprout originally was from my own plant. Where I live it doesn't always get "cold" in winter and none of the seeds sprouted. The seeds I have now came from a colder climate and I stored them in the frig for awhile. I'm getting some sprouts with them.
I rarely get any volumteers, I probably do need to "chill" my seeds for success. I just started saving seeds in the fridge last year.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 11, 2013
9:18 PM

Post #9416242

domehomedee:
It isn't just the cold that is stratification. It with moisture as Nature intends. Just coldness don't do any good, except to store seeds. It needs moisture and cold. That can be accomplished in a plastic shoebox full of sowing mix and stored outside during the winter. That is how I do my iris seeds. They spout in the spring when temp reach 50 to 70 degrees.

LOL I just looked at your zone. Ok, use the fridge but with moisture. Use a deli dish with moist seed mix and sprinkle the seeds in it, tap down, and stick in the fridge for 3 weeks.

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 12, 2013
4:59 PM

Post #9417049

That's good to know. I have a whole bunch of different seeds in trays in my unheated greenhouse. They have been in there a couple months and I was worried that the wet/cold might be harming the seed. I bet if I'm patient a good many of them will come up when the weather get's warmer. Or maybe I'll bring them back in on the mats as I have room.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 12, 2013
6:11 PM

Post #9417147

Domehomedee:
I bet they will sprout come spring.

Example: daylily seeds need 2 or 3 weeks of moist cold, then sprout in room temp. Iris seeds require 12 weeks of flunctuating temperature to sprout in spring with 50 to 70 degrees. They are outside planted in plastic shoe boxes, as shown in my post ab ove.

Minimum is 3 weeks for any perennial seed, the longer the better.

Below are Daylily seeds sprouted with Deno planted in nursery May 2012
2nd photo are irises that spouted spring 2012 after spending winter outside, then planted May 2012.

Both photos taken Sept 2012

This message was edited Feb 13, 2013 7:24 PM

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 13, 2013
7:48 PM

Post #9418393

I've been reading a thread in the propagation forum with a lot of information about germinating in vermiculite. It says that seeds never rot in it, and that even after they sprout they are OK staying in it longer than in the damp paper towel. One method described in detail was to put the wet vermiculite in small baggies, 2" x3" or similar, and adding the seeds to it. It sounds simple enough, and I'm getting frustrated and impatient.

So far nothing has been happening with my Veronicas and Verbascums. I have some in Deno baggies and some clustered in 4" pots on the surface of seed starting mix, with a light covering of vermiculite. It's been not quite 2 weeks for the Deno- sown seeds, longer for the pots. So far I have 1 Verbascum seedling from a baggy, and nothing else is happening.

So the pic is what I did today.

If nothing happens this way, I'll try chilling the baggies, even though everywhere I look it say that's not necessary. Grrrrrrrrrr...

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 13, 2013
8:12 PM

Post #9418404

Pfg,
I give the seeds of all hardy perennials at least 2 or 3 weeks chill in the fridge, then bring them to room temp where they usually sprout. I have grown Veronicas from seeds but not Verbascums.

Sometimes though even if it is said that some varieties may not need it, a chilling period may just be what is needed to trigger them into sprouting. Try it you have nothing to lose.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 13, 2013
8:23 PM

Post #9418413

You're right, Blomma, I have nothing to lose. I'll do it tomorrow. Thanks!

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 13, 2013
9:34 PM

Post #9418466

I just put some verbascum in 2" pots tonight. I really hope they come up, they are the white ones with red/purple centers. I moved some of the first seedlings I germinated this fall into the ground today, tinantia mostly. They are a good 5" tall and have been doing well in the greenhouse. Also had a few lavender cuttings that have rooted and I'll put them in tomorrow. I'll be doing some seeding outside tomorrow. I know some of these annuals won't need any extra care to get them to germinate, just need to be kept damp (allysum, orlaya, verbena). Anyone have any advice on poppies? California poppies grow good just sown in the garden, wondering if I should just toss these other poppies (somniferum) in the beds or put them in pots on the mat?

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2013
12:34 PM

Post #9419059

Dome...ooooh save me some seed from your verbascum this summer!!! Sounds lovely...
Just reminded me I should take some cuttings from my Lavender.
They say all annual poppies should be grown outdoors, I find that sometimes they come up from reseeding but tend to sow them indoors only cuz I know I can keep them moist.

Pam is that Veronica from me?

Newly sprouted: Sisyrinchium Pole Star, Ceretotheca triloba, Delphinium requienii, Dicentra macropnos...the last three are all new to me.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2013
1:19 PM

Post #9419099

One is mine, Veronica Goodness Grows, a low growing one. The other is V Fairytales, a silvery pink from the robin. I put the baggies of vermiculite in the frig this morning. We'll see if it makes a difference.

Dome, are your verbascum seeds from your garden? They sound lovely.

The heat mat may be making things too warm now that the real cold spell is over, so I unplugged it. I think this group needs 68, not 75, and that may have contributed to the problem. The Platys loved the heat, bless their little hearts. They drove me crazy for a couple of years until I pre-soaked and used the Deno method. I'll figure these little ones out too, one of these days.

Meanwhile the Aquilegias with the hugely developed roots transplanted without a hitch. Also the Dianthus moved with no roots at all, all are growing well. Yippee!

The other Aquilegia, Maggie Mae... A few days ago I took the last 3 seeds that were stuck to the plastic bag and tried again, in a 2" pot in a baggie in front of a partly open window. BTW, I googled that name and nothing came up. Do you know anything more about her? I think you said she's purple?
Pic 1, Ceratotheca triloba, started 1/11
Pic 2, Aquilegia Maggie Mae
Pic 3, Aquilegia Christa Barlow, older Dianthus x Loveliness after a haircut.

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2013
2:16 PM

Post #9419140

Pam...I'm trying to find A. Maggie Mae, am thinking origonal seed was from T&M Seed more than 10-15 years ago...cripes..lol, you expect me to remember what color huh...lol. Actually I know I saw a pix somewhere recently and am trying to retrace my steps to find a pix again. I'm thinking it's a solid purple, I remember there was something different about it but am stumped as to what it is... Will keep looking tho. Lol, I can remember the garden I grew it in, where it was in the garden and it being a dark purple, (I think..lol). So for now will be a surprise. I know, naughty! I have atleast 30 plants that sprouted so if you need...(put it on your list). Did you find a pix for A. Crista Barlow, and did yours come from the Netherlands also?, mine did. (by the way...your gonna freeze your b--- off with that window open...lol)
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2013
2:33 PM

Post #9419151

Not important, if I can get it to germinate I'll find out for myself. Surprises are fine with me, just thought you might know...

By the way, in a NYC apartment the problem is that the heat is toooo much. That window stays open unless it goes below 20, and that doesn't happen very often or last more than a couple of weeks. Lately it's been in the 30's a lot. In the kitchen where I have my shelves we start opening the window next month.

I read somewhere you keep your house cooler, makes me think even more that's at least part of my problem. With my mats unplugged the thermostat says 68. Maybe that will help...

Here's Christa B:

http://www.anniesannuals.com/signs/a/aquilegia_vulgaris_cb.htm

Definitely from the robin, don't remembr exactly where, I took a pinch. She's soooo pretty...

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 14, 2013
2:44 PM

Post #9419157

No, the verbascum is from a friend who sells rare seed. It is called verbascum chaixii and I really hope it germinates.
Things are looking good in the greenhouse today, lots of new growth, I think from the warmer night time temps.
I hope some of this nicotiana makes it, they are just so small.
I wish I felt better today, it's just wonderful outside. Getting older sucks.
I'm glad to here your Delphinium requienii is up Kathy, I just put mine in today so maybe my timing will be good. I used lots of 2" pots so I could just plant them out without trying to divide them.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2013
2:56 PM

Post #9419167

Nicotiana is slow, don't worry, it's fine. Isn't yours Sylvestris? That's the absolute slowest, drove me nuts every year, especially compared to the other nics. Not that they are so vigorous either, but Sylvestris is really, really pokey. But it's stubborn too, so don't worry. I've planted out these little puny things, 1" x1," forgot all about them, and months later, Voila! Blooms! Lol...

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 14, 2013
3:49 PM

Post #9419210

Wow, I have grown A. Barlow (pnk) but didn't know there was one A. Christa Barlow. Probably a hybrid from Barlow. The new one is even prettier.

I sowed from a Barlow mix, seed package below. I only got the pink, not the other colors.

This message was edited Feb 14, 2013 4:50 PM

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2013
3:51 PM

Post #9419214

Those are lovely too...

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 15, 2013
5:44 AM

Post #9419653

can coral bells seeds be planted now ? do they need to have the cold treatment ?
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 15, 2013
6:39 AM

Post #9419715

My notes aren't complete, but I started Heuchera (coral bells) by the Deno method (paper towel in baggy) on 2/22 and put them in the frig for a month or so before they germinated. I know I got some sprouts, but that year I used a small shelving unit and it fell over in early April so I lost some babies :-(((. Poor DH was sitting at the table by the window when it happened and he nearly had a heart attack, lol.

Maybe someone else-- Kathy?!-- has more experience?

Edited for typo

This message was edited Feb 15, 2013 3:38 PM
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 15, 2013
6:40 AM

Post #9419718

Oops, pic didn't post

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blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 15, 2013
8:26 AM

Post #9419831

deejay,
It depends whitch variety of Heuchera (coral bell) seeds you have. There are several. Check out this link. I sowed some years ago but can't remember how. The 3rd one was sown from a package of red. I had several types but not all seed sown. Purchased from Parks.

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/SeedlistH.htm

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 15, 2013
9:19 AM

Post #9419872

Sorry have never grown Heuchera from seed.
I'm growing N. sylvestris, took 6 days to sprout. they are big enough to pot on now, tho not sure when I'll get to it.

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 15, 2013
11:58 AM

Post #9419998

ty ladies going to try your baggie trick Pam :))
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 15, 2013
12:49 PM

Post #9420052

I just got 2 more T5 lights. These are 48," and the shelves are 42." I really have room for 45," but decided to fudge it. I just spent hours figuring out how to squeeze in another full size tray, and what a mess I made doing it! Finally got all cleaned up, only lost one plant. Every year my setup grows a little. The first year I tried to make a very small footprint and have been adding ever since. Now I'm on my way to an appointment, but I'll post a pic later.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 16, 2013
3:17 PM

Post #9421224

This morning I decided it was time to pot up the Platys to 2 1/2" pots, so everything under the new lights on the top shelf is the same height. They had pretty good root systems, but not quite enough to keep the root balls together, so there was some root pruning going on. I use SuperThrive for root development so I hope they'll be fine. I know they don't like to move, but I've had very good luck in the past using root stimulators with them in the garden as well as pots. As usual, time will tell...

I didn't quite finish, one more group to go...

The whole reason for making more room is that it's almost time to start the petunias, then the tomatoes and the annuals, and I was full up with perennials. It's still going to be a challenge to do everything I want here over the next few weeks, but I'm sure I'll find a way, I always manage, lol!

1 Potting shed
2 new lights, etc
3 the whole magillah

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warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 16, 2013
3:30 PM

Post #9421236

Ohhh look at all those babies!!!! They look like they are all very happy... Hey, I just came up with an idea to expand my growing area. Ikea is having a sale this weekend, tomorrow's special is book case stand (wood), reg. like $29.99 on sale for $9.99 tomorrow (Sunday only). Am going to get two...may sneak in for another 2 if allowed..lol. they are 30 3/4" x 13 3/4" x 68 1/2". Am thinking I can put 2 together length wise and will hold a 4ft shop liight...and if I figure out how to hook 2 more together (total of 4), maybe with some 2x4's inbetween I could make me a bunch more room...lol. Not sure. Will have to see if I can get to the store when they open. Just more ideas... Pam how wide is your shelving unit? Got any Ikeas around... am thinking this is cheaper than buying all the wood to build another stand, and it's all cut.
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 16, 2013
3:47 PM

Post #9421259

So far the shelves are 42" but the lights are 48" lol... It's the new math

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

February 16, 2013
5:53 PM

Post #9421369

Kathy, sounds good but I doubt the bookcases are made of real wood . I am familiar with Ikeas. Wood is not cheap so be careful. When you add plants it adds lot of weight on the bookcase. Be sure it is built to take it.

I have the same setup as Pfg with 48" x 12" shelves under 48" flourescent fixture. There are 3 shelves. The fixture hangs on chains from the shelf above. I can lower and raise them as the plants grow. The shelves are in my office. Then I have a plant stand with lights that I bought in the '80's and still works.

Photos from March 2012. This year I won't need all the space since I am not sowing that many irises and Daylilies for lack of gardne room. Edited to add that I placed aluminum foil on the wall for bounced light.

Pfg, your setup looks good. You will be busy planting in the spring.

This message was edited Feb 16, 2013 6:55 PM

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Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 16, 2013
8:23 PM

Post #9421484

Thanks, Blomma. Yours looks good too. I like the foil behind the plants. They probably get more light that way than mine get from my window facing on a narrow courtyard with no direct sun ever.

Kathy, good luck at Ikea. Sometimes they have some really good deals.

My sister & her husband are here from LA so we had a fun family dinner here. Now I'm full and beat!

Pam

Domehomedee

Domehomedee
Arroyo Grande, CA
(Zone 9a)

February 16, 2013
9:43 PM

Post #9421510

Kathy, Hope your Ikea trip is a good one. I buy all my shelving for my greenhouse and nursery yard from them. I can get a four shelf galvanized unit for $15.00. Each shelf holds one flat of plants. I have a like 6 of them screwed to the fence in the yard and I bought three more this year for inside the greenhouse . . . such a good deal, and weather resistant too.

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 17, 2013
4:55 AM

Post #9421600

Nice set up ladie wish I Had the room :) Will have to wait till spring to plant mine right out side :)

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 17, 2013
12:08 PM

Post #9422080

Yeah!!!! I got 4 units and they look to be pine, solid wood thru and thru... This was a special cuz they were reg price of $29.99 ea. Found a lady in line who bought two for me. LOL... Will spend some time putting a sealer on them...or debating with self to paint white (to help reflect the light).. Now if all my debates were that easy my life would be fabulous!! LOL>

Will also figure out a way to maximize the space also, I know there's a way for me to get 20 or more trays onto my units...I'll figure it out!!! Not sure it will look pretty but...

Yup, am considering doing something with foil myself. I know that in some of the Grow stores here in Colo. Iv'e seen 8x10 (or so) sheets off shinny foil like surfaces (almost like a foil blanket). Can be placed around 2 sides atleast, but have no idea what they cost... So for now I'll be using aluminumn foil also. Will cut up some large boxes and foil one side and lay over lights atleast. May do some next to the wall for the new unit.

Ok..have to check a few other posts, then off to potting things on...it's time.

Blooma...love the set up on the wall, great idea!

This message was edited Feb 17, 2013 1:13 PM
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

February 17, 2013
1:49 PM

Post #9422188

warriorswisdomkathy wrote:
Yup, am considering doing something with foil myself. I know that in some of the Grow stores here in Colo. Iv'e seen 8x10 (or so) sheets off shinny foil like surfaces (almost like a foil blanket). Can be placed around 2 sides atleast, but have no idea what they cost... So for now I'll be using aluminumn foil also. Will cut up some large boxes and foil one side and lay over lights atleast. May do some next to the wall for the new unit.



Walmart has in their camping dept. "space blankets", I think that they call them emergency blankets and they are foil-like which I put over my lighted shelves in the basement. They are one or two dollars, not sure, but they were chaep and I bought several of them. They also seem to keep the temps even as well.

warriorswisdomkathy

warriorswisdomkathy
Kiowa, CO
(Zone 5b)

February 17, 2013
2:02 PM

Post #9422202

Oh what a great idea, will go see what they have tomorrow...Thanks!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 17, 2013
2:08 PM

Post #9422210

I kept meaning to pick one up for my less-bright lights, but never got to it. I think they are more reflective than foil, aren't they Mylar or something similar?

deejay9

deejay9
(susie) Hastings, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 17, 2013
3:03 PM

Post #9422277

Kathy go to the $1.00 store for your Foil & Cover your Shelves in foil instead of painting :))))) then paint in the spring when you can do it outside :) hehe congrats on your shelves .

lanakila

lanakila
Holly Springs, NC
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
12:17 PM

Post #9423275

I bought the mylar emergency blankets this year. They are much more durable than foil, which I always managed to tear with the corners of my trays and such. I think I paid $2.50 each and they are pretty darn big. Plus, at the end of the season I should be able to fold them up and save them for next year!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 18, 2013
12:51 PM

Post #9423308

That's what I need... But only for one shelf now. The new lights are awesome!
KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 18, 2013
3:45 PM

Post #9423512

Pfg, since you started this thread, would you care to make a new thread? It's over 200 posts, and those of us who still have backwoods dialup have to wait several minutes for it to load, lol!
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 18, 2013
7:20 PM

Post #9423765

OK, I think this is how it's done, I've never tried before.

This is the new thread:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1298942/
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

February 18, 2013
7:45 PM

Post #9423785

off to the new thread...

This message was edited Feb 18, 2013 7:58 PM
Snarva
Lake Mohawk, NJ
(Zone 6a)

February 25, 2013
8:13 AM

Post #9430923

Bump
Pfg
(Pam) Warren, CT
(Zone 5b)

February 25, 2013
8:18 AM

Post #9430937

Sarah, I thought you might like to check this out...

Snarva is my DD (Dear Daughter), she's new here :-)))))

Pam
KyWoods
Melbourne, KY
(Zone 6a)

February 25, 2013
10:51 AM

Post #9431143

Pssst...we're on a new thread, now:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1298942/

You cannot post until you register and login.


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