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Mid-Atlantic Gardening: Seed Swap Feb.16 PRO MIXES available from Ric

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HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

January 30, 2013
12:55 PM

Post #9402741

Attention swap members:

I have available from a local wholesaler 3 Pro Mix products, the pricing and availability may vary slightly, but it's a good deal.
1st is a 3.8 cu' compressed bale of Pro Mix BX , current list is $25.70 tax included.

2nd is 2.8cu' bag of Pro Mix BRK a bark and peat mix, current price $14.20 inclusive

3rd is a 2.8cu' bag of Pro Mix PGX a finer mix for germinating etc. $14.92

I would like to pick up on the 13th and space is somewhat limited. Ric

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critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

January 30, 2013
2:01 PM

Post #9402837

Ric, you're a gem! I'd love to try the PGX and the BRK mixes, and please also count me in for at least 1 bale of BX. If you still have room after other people add their wishes, I'd gladly take another bale or two of the BX, but I'd rather "spread the love around." :-)

Thanks!
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

January 30, 2013
2:11 PM

Post #9402846

saved for Ric ------------ProMixBX----------------- ProMixBRK -------------- ProMix PGX
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx1-3xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx1xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx1xxxxxxxxxxx
-----------------------------1----------------------------0----------------------------0------------

This message was edited Jan 31, 2013 8:26 AM

This message was edited Feb 3, 2013 10:21 AM

This message was edited Feb 3, 2013 10:22 AM

This message was edited Feb 3, 2013 11:21 AM

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

January 30, 2013
3:42 PM

Post #9402971

Hmmmm - saving a spot

donnerville

donnerville
Damascus, MD
(Zone 7a)

January 30, 2013
4:51 PM

Post #9403065

Hi Ric, I would like to have 1 bale of BX, but will take a smaller pack if you have too much to carry in the car. Thanks.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

January 31, 2013
3:34 PM

Post #9404070

Bump-up. Jill, can you do a swap blast on this thread, Thanks; Ric
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

January 31, 2013
5:13 PM

Post #9404185

Ric, will it work if I include a link when I do a blast next week to make sure everybody has directions, cost, and any other pertinent info? I think you said you'd be picking up the 12th or 13th...
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 2, 2013
9:08 AM

Post #9405914

Ric -- I'd love to take you up on your offer -- but do you have room? I need to figure out what I need, in any event...

In order of wishing:

One 3.8 cu' compressed bale of Pro Mix BX , current list is $25.70 tax included.

One 2.8cu' bag of Pro Mix PGX a finer mix for germinating etc. $14.92

A second bag of BX

(I've really tried to swear off Peat, but the Pro Mixes are so handy!)

Don't go nuts squeezing it in because I know I can buy it locally, but I bet I can't get close to your prices.

Also -- reminder to all - I can get Turface for cheap for anyone who wants to try Tapla's mixes.


This message was edited Feb 2, 2013 12:18 PM
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 3, 2013
8:39 PM

Post #9407568

Happy, How much is the Turface you have available? I can get the MVP for $21.27 per 50# bag, but we would need orders totaling 40 bags. That may be doable for a plant swap. I will also try a couple of other resources. My wholesale supply's web site and catalog have been down all week but I can still email them. Ric
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 4, 2013
12:52 PM

Post #9408299

Here's a copy of the dmail I sent Ric and SallyG about Turface, in case anyone else is interested.

Turface only comes in 50 pound bags. The place I used to get it now carries this instead: Pro League Heritage Redô. http://www.turface.com/pressrelease/pro-league-heritage-red-... I just called and the store said they will see if they can special-order "All Sport" which is what I used to get -- it is like the MVP that Tapla recommends. Actually, the store I get it from (John Deere Landscape, [HYPERLINK@www.johndeerelandscapes.com]) says that the MVP is very fine and look like dirt (which makes no sense). I can vouch that the All Sport looks like Tapla's photos of what he says is MVP. (Its real-life purpose is to maintain sport fields.)

When I bought All Sport last year it was $11.50 for a 50 pound bag. I have a lot now; I don't need more but I don't mind getting more. The guy I just talked to at John Deere Landscape is seeing whether he can special order 5 or so bags of All Sport; he thought it would be $14.50 or so a bag. I don't know why there was such a price hike. His name is Greg; he said I should call back in a few days.

You could see if you have a John Deere store near you: [HYPERLINK@www.johndeerelandscapes.com]

The guy at the John Deere store says the "Heritage Red" looks like the All Sport, except for the color. I don't really want to use something with an artificial die in it.

Turface doesn't list All Sport on their website. (I think John Deere told me it is branded differently -- I don't recall why.) And the website indicates that the Heritage Red is the same as the MVP but for the color. See http://www.turface.com/turface-products/infield-conditioners...

None of this makes too much sense, I realize.
ssgardener
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 4, 2013
2:42 PM

Post #9408431

I get my Turface at a farm supply store for about $13 per 50# bag. It's definitely the MVP brand that Tapla uses. Ric, I'm not sure why it would be so much more expensive through your wholesale contact...?

The store owner is familiar with gritty mixes, too. I purchased chicken grit at the same time, and he asked me how my bonsai were doing, and that he didn't have pine fines in the right size. (The gritty mix is preferred by bonsai growers.)

If anyone needs either chicken grit or Turface MVP at the seed swap, I can definitely pick up a couple of bags (but probably no more than 2). There are 2 southern states stores that are not out of the way for me.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 4, 2013
3:15 PM

Post #9408478

Be careful, though; not all Southern States have Turface. SSG, the John Deere place where I get Turface is pretty convenient to you too -- it is at 2666 Pittman Dr
Silver Spring, (301) 587-4016.
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 4, 2013
4:53 PM

Post #9408585

I'll check with our local Southern States (on, appropriately enough, South Street) and see what they have in stock, for anybody wanting to pick stuff up there on Seed Party Day.
ssgardener
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 4, 2013
4:55 PM

Post #9408589

Happy, I go to the Southern States' stores because I can pick up chicken grit at the same time. :)
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 5, 2013
7:38 AM

Post #9409097

SS -- Southern States is my source for chicken grit too! I just was cautioning not to go out of your way to a southern States on the hunt for Turface w/o calling first. Or the grit, for that matter - there are several sizes of grit, and they don't always have them all in stock. I think Al recommends using "Grower" size.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 7, 2013
10:01 AM

Post #9411161

I found it locally for about $12.50/50#. Ric
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 8, 2013
11:40 AM

Post #9412202

Grit or Turface? You should be able to find grit for less than that...
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 8, 2013
1:18 PM

Post #9412304

Turface:>}
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 8, 2013
2:32 PM

Post #9412365

That's excellent - so almost half the price you were originally quoted!

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 8, 2013
10:13 PM

Post #9412746

Anyone find the pine fines for a reasonable price? Orchids are calling my name again (heaven, help me) and I think the gritty mix would be a good mix for them.
ssgardener
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 8, 2013
10:50 PM

Post #9412753

Chantell, the cheapest ones that Happy and I have found are from Meadows Farms. Most of their locations are closed until March, though. They have a lot of locations, so hopefully you'll find one near you.

http://www.meadowsfarms.com/Garden-Centers/Garden-Center-Locations.aspx

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 9, 2013
7:18 PM

Post #9413634

LOL :-) - I have a Meadows Farm 5 mins up the road from my house. Thank you for letting me know. Is that what they refer to them as - 'pine fines?' I just want to make sure I ask using the correct name. I don't think my Meadows is as on top of things as some of the others. Various times I've asked about something (nothing tropical or rare, mind you) only to be met with the deer in the headlights 'look.'
ssgardener
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 10, 2013
2:28 AM

Post #9413839

Yes, pine fines is what they call it. :) I know what you mean by the blank you get there when you ask questions. They certainly have the lowest prices on a lot of things, though.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 10, 2013
6:07 AM

Post #9413933

just so happy to see everyone getting their gritty needs met.
; ^)
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 11, 2013
11:20 AM

Post #9415541

Ric, I saw on a post from Holly that both of you are still "punky."

Please, SKIP the Pro Mix "deal" -- rest up instead of going to pick up those bags! We will get some another time. Maybe we'll have a "lily bulb sort plus quikcrete project plus Pro Mix group buy opportunity" at our place... April 5 or 6? I know April 5 is Aspen-Terri's "off" Friday.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 11, 2013
4:42 PM

Post #9415942

At Meadow Farms, the pine fines are called "Kambark" pine mulch. They do need to be sifted, though.

I don't think the bags are labeled "pine fines."

I understand some Ace Hardware stores also carry it, and they are open now (though might not stock because it isn't seasonal).

By the way, if anyone sees fir bark fines, please let us know -- apparently they last much longer then pine bark fines.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 11, 2013
5:00 PM

Post #9415973

Pro Mix BX 6
Pro Mix BRK 1
Pro Mix PGX 2
This will not be a problem. I can easily fit that inside. I'll be ordering tomorrow and picking up Wednesday. Ric
ssgardener
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 11, 2013
5:26 PM

Post #9416009

Happy, I've been looking for fir bark everywhere! I wonder if it's just not offered on the East Coast.

At Meadows, I ask for "pine fines" at the desk and they seem to know what I mean. But I always make sure to check the bag before they load it in the car.

I know others have found good value at Ace, but my local one is so expensive. About 2-3 times the cost of other stores. O_o So it's probably a good idea to call and check first.

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 11, 2013
8:43 PM

Post #9416221

Thanks y'all
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 12, 2013
12:00 PM

Post #9416755

Teri, our I've found Ace can vary a lot. Our local Ace undersells the Walmart on a number of things, I've even found that special order items most times are cheaper if I have them order them, rather than order online for pickup at their store. Ric

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 12, 2013
1:59 PM

Post #9416866

Our ACE sells "Pine mulch " Kambark, too, which is actually very finely chipped. CHeap enough. I won't testify to their prices otherwise, I only go for a few things.

Homestead Gardens in Anne Arundel County sells bags labeled as "pine fines". $$ ? If anyplace around here has real fir bark, they would be it. THey are usually $$$ though.

What I really want is a good sifter for my bark. A large plastic colander with large ish holes (for a colander that is).
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 15, 2013
7:39 AM

Post #9419785

Prices were as quoted, I'll have everyones totals at the swap. Ric
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 15, 2013
1:21 PM

Post #9420080

Cool! Thanks, Ric. If anybody wants to try a partial bag of the BX, bring something to put it in... I'm happy to share what I'm getting, and I'm sure you can estimate 1/3 bale ($10) or smaller amounts. I think I'm down for 3 bales, so I can also spare one or two if somebody else wants "in" at the 11 3/4th hour.

Can't wait!!
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 17, 2013
12:15 PM

Post #9422088

Thank you thank you thank you!

Now I won't run out during winter sowing or early seed starting... else, I'd have to grit my teeth and pay the price at DPF!

And it's right where I'll need it, too. Ric, you're a gem.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 17, 2013
2:30 PM

Post #9422250

Ditto -- a million thanks! That was too easy for words!
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 17, 2013
11:28 PM

Post #9422576

DPF was $44/3.8'cu. :-} Ric
Although I did buy a bag of lobster compost for my 'maters.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 18, 2013
5:01 AM

Post #9422709

Wow! A renewed thanks to you!

We'll want pictures of the lobster tomatoes, of course!

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
6:29 AM

Post #9422817

lobster tomatos hahaha
coleup
annapolis, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
8:01 AM

Post #9422988

Ah, wonder if Chesapeake Blue crab fertilizer is still around?
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/833761/

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
9:16 AM

Post #9423073

I think the CHes Blue went out of business
: ^(
Haven't seen it.
Farmer's Co op sold bags of just crab shell last year
: ^)
Use sparingly cuz its much more per pound than compost WITH shell. At least you can see exactly how much shell you get.

Last time we got crabs I buried the whole ball O newspaper, guts and shells.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 18, 2013
12:17 PM

Post #9423273

Darn@#% lost my entire post.
Sally & Judy, Amazon sells a 4# bag of crab shell meal, $16.00. We usually produce about a bushel of crab "waste" a year in the OBX. I just can't figure how to store and transport the stuff without a smelly mess. Freezing would probably work, but we don't have that advantage. I have to chuckle at the mental image of a cloud of flies following my boat up the highway. LOL
Gita was just talking about Chesapeake Blue, Sat. at DPFarm. The last reference to it I could find was 2008. I heard the co. went out of business due to environmental issues. I can't understand how you take a waste product and produce a "green" fertilizer, you have an environmental issue. Sounds like a government conspiracy to me. Snicker, Snicker. Ric

Here's an old post by Gita on the subject:http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/833761/

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
1:01 PM

Post #9423316

CLoud of flies!! Woo whee yeah pew yew

I will have to check Farmers CoOp and see if they will carry it. and the price. I know I didn't pay 16$. but can't remember the bag weight either.
coleup
annapolis, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
1:51 PM

Post #9423374

Quoting:Ah, wonder if Chesapeake Blue crab fertilizer is still around?
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/833761/[/quote]

lol Ric.we both referenced the same post!
I believe the "environmental issues" had to do with the facilities and possible leaching into Bay and zoning, not the product itself.

Here's an article on how limited the supply of P and K in the NPK needed for plant growth is on this planet. What do we do with the waste (80-90% of a crab) when it needs to be returned to the earth? It's called "Are We Heading Toward Peak Fertilizer"
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/11/are-we-heading-toward-peak-fertilizer



This message was edited Feb 18, 2013 7:21 PM

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
2:49 PM

Post #9423453

coleup- You 'wondered,' and the linked thread ended in 2008.

I followed with 'I think they went out of business.' implying there is no Ches Blue to be had as far as we knew.

Ric supplied a possible alternative- after apparently recovering from one of those so-frustrating lost posts.

I don't think you were ignored.

Thank you for the new link for MotherJones.
coleup
annapolis, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
4:13 PM

Post #9423539

lol Sally, I don't think I was ignored either! Struck me funny that both Ric and I posted the exact same link to that thread that ended in 2008. Great minds think alike. And, yes, I do believe that Ces Blue is no longer available.


Chesapeake Blue smelled way way better than fish emulsion. Wonder what crab packing houses do with their waste? I know Crisfield has a plant to process oyster shells.. There is a company in Carroll County I think that has contracted with a number of restaurants in Annapolis and Baltimore for thei r compostable waste which they compost and sell. Maybe every thing but the shell remaining after the meat is picked becomes one of those 'other' ingredients in say pet food? Or?

Hey Ric, I have a source for 5 gal food grade buckets with tight fitting lids...Shall I set one aside for your boat? And Daves has been eating parts of my posts, too.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 18, 2013
4:27 PM

Post #9423552

well! I completely missed that ! HAHA Obviously RIC was ignored as I did not click his link!

The Gazette metnioned that someone is collecting some of the oyster shells from rstaurants and using them for oyster restoration- yahoo.

Last time I "checked" all the restaurant crab waste went in the dumpsters which was a huge waste and very smell and fly ridden too- oook.

It just occurs to me, very sadly, that there is a while lot of crab meat used here coming in plastic tubs from thousands of miles away. Is there still real crab picking in MD?
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 18, 2013
6:16 PM

Post #9423695

Sally, Many of the packing houses closed shortly after 9/11/2001. I was down in Solomons Island a few years ago fishing. Such a nice place off season. We talked with the locals and learned that the packing houses all closed. The crab was still there, and the building still in good repair. The reason was, no workers. Originally the packing houses had regular transient workers from Mexico, mostly women. The same women year after year, traveling together, staying the season, living with the same families, taking their money, and going home every year. Supporting an industry where no Americans wanted to work. Even with the prompting of the employers whose records showed regular employment and housing of these people could not overcome the fear that day produced. Work Visas were denied the industry quickly went into decline and passed. Just another way that 1 day changed our lives for -ever.
Judy, I considered the buckets, I didn't think I could open more than the first one, even if I waited till mid-Janurary. LOL Ric
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 18, 2013
6:25 PM

Post #9423707

Hmm, friends took me to lunch just today at May's, and they serve a lot of steamed crab. I wonder what a big dose of Old Bay seasoning would do to my compost? I might have to resist in any case, because I can just imagine my one (typeA definitely) neighbor's reaction if he found out I was putting crab waste out back.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 18, 2013
6:27 PM

Post #9423709

Jill, I'm sure racoons is not all you would attract. LOL Ric
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 18, 2013
7:12 PM

Post #9423752

A friend down in GA was doing small-scale organic farming when I lived there... he made compost from crab waste, horse manure, and lots of live oak leaves (they drop in spring each year) that the local extension service analyzed minutely and proclaimed "the most perfectly balanced & complete" stuff they'd ever seen. I helped grab bags of leaves off the curb, went along a couple of times for loads of nicely aged manure, but only went once for crab waste -- indescribable. The stuff gave off enough ammonia fumes to bring tears to your eyes.

If I had enough leaves or grass clippings, I know the crab waste wouldn't be smelly after just a day or two (and before then, you wouldn't smell if it you turned it under). Anyway, if you're composting on a big enough scale, it's quite worthwhile to throw in a few bushels of crab waste, preferably without old bay seasoning. Otherwise, the fertilizers you've mentioned would do the job nicely also. LOL

Gitagal

Gitagal
Baltimore, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 19, 2013
6:33 PM

Post #9424833

Just catching up with this Thread. Forgot to "watch it"...

I know I mentioned this somewhere before--but "Chapel Hills Nursery, right here in Perry Hall,
had "Fine Pines" (that's what theirs is called) for $5 a bag. The bag is a bit smaller than bags of mulch--
but full and heavy.
I bought 2 bags last spring--and only went through 1/2 of one. The "fines" are very small and uniform.
No big and small. I could swing by there and see if they still have them outside--frozen solid, I am sure.

Now--I could be a real "sweetheart" and go dump some out, put something to give you scale, and take a picture.
When will be the next "warm" day???

As for the crab shells---Why couldn't they be crushed in some way with something like a cement mixer
with some rocks in it??? Or--drive over a pile of crab shells with your car...over and over...till they are smithereens.
OR--(look out--my brain is buzzing...) --have a Crab Feast and then give everyone a hammer and let them go at the shells...
Then it would be easier to dig them in to compost.

I think that Oyster shells are a much "cleaner" product. No guts and gills or spices to worry about.
And--I bet they are pure calcium!
They line parking lots and driveways with them in places around the Bay. I saw it in Kent Island once...

I bought 2 bags of the Lobster Compost at DPF. They were wet--and sooo heavy!
The old "Chesapeake Blue" bags were smaller. Less than 1/2 of an el-cheapo top soil bag. And they cost $8 at the end.

Coleup and Ric--thanks for dredging my old Thread out of the 2008 "compost pile"...
It was fun reading it over again. How do you all find Threads on any particular topic?
I know you can "search" I have never tried it...There is still a lot I don't do or know about DG. Fill me in!

Gita






This message was edited Feb 19, 2013 9:34 PM

Thumbnail by Gitagal
Click the image for an enlarged view.

happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 19, 2013
6:35 PM

Post #9424837

Gita: That's a great price for the pine bark fines. I've been sifting my bags of mixed size pieces of bark, but I figure its ok because I use the larger pieces for mulch.

Gitagal

Gitagal
Baltimore, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 20, 2013
7:41 AM

Post #9425313

OK! I went outside, cut open my bag of "Fine Pines", took out a bit of the stuff out
and took a picture.
Now--this bag has already sat out there for almost a year, so the contents are quite moist
and look a bit "composted'.

There are a few larger slivers of wood in it--so, I suppose sifting will be needed--
or you could just hand pick these out. The actual pine bark bits look pretty uniform, though.

So here is the picture for you. Teaspoon on top for scale...Gita

Thumbnail by Gitagal
Click the image for an enlarged view.

critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 20, 2013
7:46 AM

Post #9425318

The crab shells don't need to be crushed; they'll break down pretty quickly in a "hot" compost pile.

I'm thinking I should make up a lot of "gritty mix" to top up a new little rock garden area, although I don't think I'm going to worry about sifting out bigger pieces, just add the ingredients in about the right proportions and mix in situ.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 20, 2013
8:21 AM

Post #9425354

Jill -- FWIW, Al says the gritty mix isn't worth the trouble or expense to use except in containers, where the point of it is to avoid the level of perched water that will sit at the bottom of the pot, and to bring oxygen to the roots.
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 20, 2013
9:13 AM

Post #9425474

That makes sense... but I'm thinking that its components would be good additions to rock garden dirt. In particular, I want to top off with a layer of sand and/or chicken grit. Ddoesn't chicken grit sound like it would make my hens & chicks happy? :-)

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 20, 2013
12:09 PM

Post #9425638

I'm with happy, re tapla.

I have hens and chicks in gritty mix in hypertufa. I think I went too far to the well drained side, they have been struggling.
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 20, 2013
1:36 PM

Post #9425716

I put a bunch of baby semps into about half Pro Mix and half sand. I think I added a sprinkle from my container of mixed time release fertilizer and moisture crystals, but at a fraction of the usual rate. They did better after I added a top layer of sand (note that this is builders' / masonry sand, *not* play sand). They're really not doing much though, but I don't know that they're struggling -- I think it's more that they're spending their first year growing roots, like many perennials.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 20, 2013
6:10 PM

Post #9426054

Sally: Tapla suggested trying a 4:3:2 mix (turface:bark:grit) if more water retention is needed ...

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

February 20, 2013
8:40 PM

Post #9426203

I add the grit to just about everything - whether pots or plants in ground that require better drainage. Couldn't remember the term 'grower's grit' one time. I said come on now - y'all know what I mean...the big grit like for Turkeys. The SS mgr - shook her head and grinned - asking what I was using it for. So I told her - plants. She then out right laughed and said 'figured as much - you didn't look like a chicken girl to me.' I wasn't sure if I should've thanked her or been offended. Sheesh

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 21, 2013
4:34 AM

Post #9426350

haha
I'm not sure either, and don't want to say too much for fear of pi$$ing off some real CHicken Girls! But you know, no one else has That Chantell Smile, except certain lovely little ones...

I was curious about the turkey grit. Our store offered a choice of regular grit or oyster shell grit. Aha oyster shell= micronutrients and calcium?? maybe?? THought that might be bad for a pot in high proportions but good for long term soil in the garden.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 21, 2013
5:11 AM

Post #9426380

There are (at least) five sizes of grit (at least the type gran-i-grit makes); in order by size, small to large, they are Starter, Grower, Developer-Layer, Turkey and Turkey Finisher.

And here is more information than you wanted, from http://www.ncgranite.com/gritmailer.pdf: "GRAN-I-GRIT makes money for you! When fed in the proper sizes, GRAN-I-GRIT usually pays for itself many times over by giving more broiler and turkey meat per pound of feed even on all mash rations. Layers fed GRAN-I-GRIT produce up to 20% more eggs with the same amount of feed. How does GRAN-I-GRIT make this possible? Birds rush feed through their digestive tracts, keeping it
only from 1/2 to 12 minutes in the gizzard. The proper sizes of GRAN-I-GRIT in the gizzard grinds feed particles so small that the birdís digestive juices can quickly act on every bit of the valuable proteins, carbohydrates, fats, minerals and vitamins locked within the feed particles, converting them into a form for absorption into the blood
stream where they aid growth and egg production. So you can see Ė without grit much of the valuable feed passes right through the bird unused."

My husband, who seems to be looking ahead to retirement, has been waxing poetic about how happy his friends who raise chickens are, and how much they love their birds.

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 21, 2013
5:19 AM

Post #9426388

interesting, never knew grit was THAT vital. or came in all those sizes.
happy, we'll be next door, with goats...and chickens, or ducks..?
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 21, 2013
6:12 AM

Post #9426456

Oh Sally, goats and ducks -- wouldn't that be wonderful! I'm serious!

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 21, 2013
7:35 AM

Post #9426578

I know you are!!

maybe we need our own thread for this tho.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 21, 2013
9:17 AM

Post #9426712

I know this is OT, but I don't know what I could put in a thread, since this vision is at yet mightily inchoate...

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 21, 2013
12:52 PM

Post #9426888

"Inchoate Acres" love it

Ric I promise to use my screen this weekend. I'll take some Kambark, screen it, and show the ratio of big to fine I get.

Gitagal

Gitagal
Baltimore, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 21, 2013
12:59 PM

Post #9426898

i just want to say that always jumping on to create a new thread is not necessary.

often these side threads just die a slow death. they are too topic central.
i am with happy--lets just stay right here.

ps. sorry that there are no capitals---i am on hold with my insurance co. and can only use one hand.
phone is in the other... gita
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 21, 2013
1:27 PM

Post #9426933

I have a bunch of amaryllises (sp?) in the garage I had totally forgotten about -- I need to get them blooming to perk in March --
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 21, 2013
4:09 PM

Post #9427104

This thread served it purpose so let's dance.
Ladies, we've had goats, they're just lovable and love to eat weeds even poison ivy and multiflora rose. By the time I get the garden done I'd like to fence it and run some Khaki Campbell ducks in the garden. Campbells are the best laying ducks, producing as well as most hens. They are great weeders and pest controllers, They do a lot less crop damage than chickens. I used to let the chickens free range till things started to ripen, then boot them out of the garden. If they ate 1 ripe tomato it would be fine but no they have to taste every ripe one. They also scratch a lot, ducks don't. It would give Holly a reason to add yet another water feature. LOL Ric

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 22, 2013
7:15 AM

Post #9427678

Must watch
http://www.wimp.com/goatsyelling/
UMD_Terp
Central, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 22, 2013
7:40 AM

Post #9427703

sallyg wrote:

The Gazette metnioned that someone is collecting some of the oyster shells from rstaurants and using them for oyster restoration- yahoo.

Last time I "checked" all the restaurant crab waste went in the dumpsters which was a huge waste and very smell and fly ridden too- oook.


Wooo y'all have been active.

Sallyg, it is important that the oysters go back in the bay. There are other problems with the Bay but the depletion of oyster reefs is one that they are trying to improve upon. There is an oyster recovery partnership that has grown leaps and bounds in the last 5 years. I know that South Carolina had one of the first programs, that I know of, for recycling oyster shells. http://www.oysterrecovery.org/

I get a bushel or two a year and I always save the shells to return. I encourage everyone to do the same. It is cheap to make aggregate out of them and use them on your driveway or wherever but the spat needs a home!

The oyster population has been increasing but it is still at one or two percent of what it should be.
http://score.dnr.sc.gov/deep.php?subject=2&topic=16

Hmm..
Not to cross topics here but maybe I should change my name to UMD_Oyster
I love those little guys.

A mature oyster can filter over a gallon (1.3) of water per hour...

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 22, 2013
11:14 AM

Post #9427927

Woot Terp! Man after my own heart. So to speak... My degree (UMCP) is Agriculture, Water Resources. Likely the degree program names have changed since then.

I feel so guilty about our poor Bay that I can hardly buy crabs. Oysters don't tempt me , and yes they are awesome cleaners. I wish I had waterfront property so I could hang a bag of cultured ones.
ssgardener
Silver Spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 22, 2013
12:39 PM

Post #9428047

Wow, Terp, that's very interesting. I've never heard of returning oysters to the bay. Thanks for the info!
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 22, 2013
12:56 PM

Post #9428060

Cheering here, also. I knew about artificial reef efforts in various places, but returning oysters to their harvest beds is such a no-brainer idea that I'm amazed it took this long to figure it out! I'm going to check with Donna at Chef Lin to see if they participate... I don't know if their oysters come from a local source or not, but either way the shells might benefit this program. :-) They also go through quite a few mussels -- big ones from New Zealand, I think -- and I wonder if they might not be useful to the oyster reefs also.

I'm pleased to see that May's, where I had lunch on my birthday, does participate... but disturbed that they're the only Frederick restaurant that does so. Hmm. A PR effort is in order.

UMD_Terp
Central, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 22, 2013
1:15 PM

Post #9428071

Jill. That is great. I have no idea how you would start to get more resteraunts in Frederick involved or if it would be worth while for them or dnr/orf.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 22, 2013
1:26 PM

Post #9428085

Zebra mussels are a real non-native nightmare, the explosive nature of their spread and growth is awesome. The one positive fact that is overlooked is the amount of water they clean. I have read a couple of monographs that have expounded the purity of the water in areas where they have habituated, as well as lowering the contaminates in tropic species that bioaccumulate and bioconcentrate toxins and heavy metals. In may species of fish the fat is concentrated in certain areas of the body, with proper filleting techniques, most of the contaminates can be removed. Since most toxins and heavy metals are lipid soluble they are stored in the fat. Probably more than you want to know, I just want to know how to get rid of starlings. LOL Ric
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 22, 2013
2:04 PM

Post #9428106

That is SO interesting, Terp, I had no idea. That is absolutely fabulous. There aren't any drop off places near us (see http://www.oysterrecovery.org/public-recycling-collection-centers/). What do you do to keep your shells until you can drop them off? Do they become stinky?
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 22, 2013
2:25 PM

Post #9428123

And Ric, that is really interesting as well. How can I find out what species of fish allow the proper filleting techniques you describe to remove the toxins?
UMD_Terp
Central, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 22, 2013
2:30 PM

Post #9428129

Well I have a friend who I give them to who runs to the eastern shore a lot. In the mean time I use them to break up downspouts or justttuck them in the corner. Out of sight out of mind.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 22, 2013
2:51 PM

Post #9428150

Devon, in Salmonoids, trout and salmon the fat is concentrated in the dorsal stripe, in blues or drum, on the flanks under the skin as well as many salt or brackish fish. What to look for is any flesh that is darker and not fibered. In bi-valves as in any shellfish it is through out. Ric

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 22, 2013
2:52 PM

Post #9428152

Anyone else remember ever seeing driveways paved with oyster shells?
It's horrible to think about how oysters have declined.

One of our local creeks/ rivers had an unusual growth of 'dark false mussels' a couple years ago. It was watched, sadly I think the next year they all died off. But it gives hope that the tide may turn if we can be more careful. Which we won't be.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 22, 2013
3:06 PM

Post #9428176

Pa. has a large push for farms to grow buffers zones along streams to help collect nitrates rather than letting them flow to the bay. They offer certifications as well as possible $$$ incentives. I also know the DER is hot on raw sewage releases, even during extreme circumstance, like flooding,and clean water standards as well as enforcement on construction buffers to reduce silt. It will be a slow process, but it is attainable. Ric

I really don't want to start a debate, but we are ultimately responsible to keep our government administrations from degrading standards for clean air and water.
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

February 22, 2013
7:00 PM

Post #9428412

The information for restaurants on that site says that if an establishment generates at least 3 bushels (five 5 gallon pails) of shells a week, they will see that the shells are picked up. I really don't know how many oyster shells Chef Lin puts out... Their raw bar never seems to be their most popular station, and I don't think they serve cooked oysters. Still, somebody might be able to drop off shells at May's and utilize their pick-up.

I don't know if I have it in me to ferry oyster shells across Frederick on a weekly basis, though... good intentions, not enough time. It irks me to admit that, but I guess it's that sort of discomfort that pushes me to do things that I *can* manage to do... like put more stuff into a compost pile even when the convenient thing is to shove it down the dispose-all.

Speaking of things we can all do to help this oyster reclaimation effort... web site says 95% of their donations go directly to the work they do. A 5% overhead for any charity is almost unheard of... most are considered to be doing "well" if their number is better than 80%. So when I'm deciding where I can make a contribution to support an environmental effort, I'll remember them. Maybe there should be a special tax on oysters and other seafood... OK, now I'm really getting far afield.

Gitagal

Gitagal
Baltimore, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 22, 2013
7:17 PM

Post #9428423

Ric---I am impressed with your knowledge! Such great, interesting information!

Do you have a degree in marine biology-- or something similar???

Gita
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 23, 2013
7:45 AM

Post #9428810

Nah, Gita nothing that impressive. I did attend Trenton Jr. College a couple of years. My majors were Biology and Horticulture. All that did was whet my appetite for all living things, and our environment. As a responsible fisherman I want to preserve aquatic environments for the next generation to enjoy, in the respect I would consider myself a preservationist. I read extensively and enjoy documentaries. Ric

sallyg

sallyg
Anne Arundel,, MD
(Zone 7b)

February 23, 2013
8:03 AM

Post #9428830

Lobster compost at my ACE is 7.99 for a 1 cubic foot bag. No weight stated anywhere.
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 23, 2013
12:47 PM

Post #9429037

Ric: Thanks for all the information. So is the idea that in trout, salmon and blues you should be careful to not eat the fat? I always thought the fat from fish was actually good for you -- I can't say that we ever sat down to a heaping plate of fish fat, but we don't carefully excise it -- but if that is where the toxins linger, I need to rethink that.
HollyAnnS
Dover, PA
(Zone 6b)

February 23, 2013
2:05 PM

Post #9429120

Yes Devon, Since most toxins, and biotransformed heavy metals are lipid (read fat) soluble, cutting away any fat will make it safer. You will still get your Omega 3 but with fewer bad things attached. Ric
happy_macomb
Chevy Chase, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 24, 2013
7:41 AM

Post #9429701

Thanks Ric - that is hugely helpful.

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