Are you using, avoiding or not bothering to look? I have gone all organic based on the experiences of farmers elsewhere showing yields are down, sometime soil residuals keep you from growing non tolerant round up crops. What are your thoughts, please?
GMO'd Vegetable seeds?
Most of the catalogs I buy from offer non-GMO seed, or at least a choice of regular or organic seed. I don't grow corn, so I don't have to worry about that one.
This has been discussed a number of times on DG, I'm not sure there is anymore to say....GMO seeds are not available to the home gardener. They are available to large farms. There is paperwork and such that comes with GMO seeds. You can buy seeds that come from places that have a safe seed pledge. GMO seeds are expensive so they aren't likely to be sold to the average gardener.
I can see where yields might be reduced in areas where GMO plants have been grown. If the plants, thus soil has been saturated with Round Up it doesn't seem odd that plants aren't happy growing there. You may want to do a search on DG. This subject has been discussed jillions of times.
Agreed. and there are no round-up ready vegetable seed. Only GMO's on the market are Bt Sweet corn which is not available to home gardeners. There are many restrictions and lots of paper work in both cases. At present only Syngenta offers it altho other companies are coming into the business. It will have names like BC 0822, GH0851, WH 0809 etc. Syngenta's trademark for that gene is Attribute.
David-since your concerns aren't about GMOs you may want to check out the forum on Soil and Compost (or something like that) lol
There is a lot of great information on that forum.
Not a reprimand at all, that was not my intent. The more you get to know me you'll understand that's not how I am. I didn't know if you were aware that there was such a forum but I thought you might be interested. There is a lot of really good, interesting information there. I don't see any foolish interjections...
Well you better start researching before you go to the Soil forum. I have a feeling once you get there we may loss you for awhile...lol
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I know many people refuse to buy seeds from vendors that Monsanto might own part of, or whose seeds come from suppliers that might deal with Monsanto.
I've heard of the Safe Seed Pledge, but I don't know of one that means "nothing from any company with any ownership by Monsanto".
I heard a claim that Johnny's Seeds was "owned by Monsanto", even though Johnny's claims to be "family owned". I have no idea either way about them, I just like their catalog.
And I know that home gardeners CAN'T buy genetically modified seeds inadvertently. Seed vendors promising not to sell GMO seeds to the home market might as well be promising not to sell us Moon rocks.
I thought there were only a small number of GM crops available commercially (other than for research). Like cottonseed, corn, soybean, the tasteless "Flavr Savr" tomato. But now I see alfalfa, papaya, canola, zucchini and sugar beets added to the list.
I went looking for GM rice, particularly Golden Rice 2, since the Vitamin A increase would have huge health benefits. I've read about small-scale free licenses being given away by Monsanto for Golden Rice 2 crop sizes up to $10,000. But one website claims that NO large scale production of genetically modified rice is occurring yet. I don't know.
But the only way any transgenic genes are getting into mail-order seed packets unknown to the buyers is if GM pollen blew into someone's seed plots and escaped from the lawyers and lawsuits that followed it.
Processed food products are another matter. Anything with corn or corn oil or corn syrup in it might have some GM corn in it, as far as we can tell from the labels. Ditto for cottonseed oil or canola oil, I assume.
Maybe also sugar-beet sugar? In that case, it's got to be approaching 100% of all processed food! That's my understanding, anyway.
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According to Trader Joe's website, they do not carry GMO products under their Trader Joe brand.
In support of this commitment, my daughter and I food-shop exclusively at TJ's.
OH, NO!!!! NOT.............THE............GMO................AGAIN!!!!!!!!!
(I hope ya'll know I'm just kidding....)
I have seen a list of seeds that have been altered, that is why I posted the questions, it is not just corn seed as I understand it, and I was curious where people stood on the issue.
For those of us who are newer, I am sorry you do not think that there is any more to discuss. I have been gardening for many years, teaching gardening some and writing about gardening, and I thought it was a legitimate item to discuss
It's not that it's not legitimate it just that it has been discussed so many times that we just can't keep posting and discussing it over and over...if I get a chance I'll post some recent links.
If you do a DG search or even look back on this forum, the tomato forum, and maybe the beginner veggie forum you'll find some very recent discussions, which you can read. I think many of us feel like we just can't talk about it anymore.
The most likely place you are going to run into GMO products are in your grocery store.
nancy - as far as know from what I have researched - only one variety of sweet corn has been genetically modified. The corn fed to livestock is "dent corn" - from my research 98% of this corn has been genetically modified. Which means, that unless the animal products we eat have been raised organically, they more than likely have been raised on genetically modified corn.
Personally, I will not give up exploring the ramifications of GE crops.
A closed mind is a terrible thing, to me. People that dont want to talk about GM crops dont have too, but why tell others they cannot? I dont think this has been talked to death, I think people are ignoring a very real threat to the environment and our health. Here is one question that should have you thinking about how real the threat is:
If there is no danger in GM crops why did monsanto and others spend MILLIONS of dollars to defeat prop. 37 in calif (that would have required anything genetically modified to be labeled as such)
Please keep doing your research, discuss this with like minded people, check out Occupy Monsanto and other groups.
My opinion of course
I love the internet, am also retired. this GM thing has a lot of info that is kept from the public. One thing that really bothers me is that Clarence Thomas went from a bigwig at monsanto to court justice, and contiually rules in their favor. seems like a huge conflict of interest.
This interests me immensely because I am finally getting to do a veggie garden for the first time(have done them in containers previously)
I'll talk about GMOs to whoever will listen, I'm still surprised that many still don't know what it is
I'm always surprised when people don't know what that means also. I was just posting on another forum that I suddenly realized that even though I garden organically, I've doubtless been inadvertently feeding my chickens GMO feed. So I switched to organic, even though it's double the cost and I can't pass it on to my usual customers because they really don't care about it.
A couple places that the effects of GMOs are often overlooked is in manure, and hay, used as mulch. Even Organic amendments bc there's not much, if any regulation. I hate to see somebody use GMO hay as mulch and then they can't grow anything.
My answer initially was about the title of this thread and GMO seeds aren't available to the home gardener, but there are other aspects.
When I'm on my regular computer I'll try to link some of the other DG threads where this has all been dicussed recently.
this is copied from the nongmo project page- a list of gmo and gmo "contaminated" crops. the last paragraph shows just much GMOs have entered into the food supply.
High-Risk Crops (in commercial production; ingredients derived from these must be tested every time prior to use in Non-GMO Project Verified products (as of December 2011):
•Alfalfa (first planting 2011)
•Canola (approx. 90% of U.S. crop)
•Corn (approx. 88% of U.S. crop in 2011)
•Cotton (approx. 90% of U.S. crop in 2011)
•Papaya (most of Hawaiian crop; approximately 988 acres)
•Soy (approx. 94% of U.S. crop in 2011)
•Sugar Beets (approx. 95% of U.S. crop in 2010)
•Zucchini and Yellow Summer Squash (approx. 25,000 acres)
ALSO high-risk: animal products (milk, meat, eggs, honey, etc.) because of contamination in feed.
Monitored Crops (those for which suspected or known incidents of contamination have occurred, and those crops which have genetically modified relatives in commercial production with which cross-pollination is possible; we test regularly to assess risk, and move to “High-Risk” category for ongoing testing if we see contamination):
•Beta vulgaris (e.g., chard, table beets)
•Brassica napa (e.g., rutabaga, Siberian kale)
•Brassica rapa (e.g., bok choy, mizuna, Chinese cabbage, turnip, rapini, tatsoi)
•Curcubita (acorn squash, delicata squash, patty pan)
Common Ingredients Derived from GMO Risk Crops
Amino Acids, Aspartame, Ascorbic Acid, Sodium Ascorbate, Vitamin C, Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate, Ethanol, Flavorings (“natural” and “artificial”), High-Fructose Corn Syrup, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein, Lactic Acid, Maltodextrins, Molasses, Monosodium Glutamate, Sucrose, Textured Vegetable Protein (TVP), Xanthan Gum, Vitamins, Yeast Products.
>> I hate to see somebody use GMO hay as mulch and then they can't grow anything.
How does that work? Are you assuming that the hay would have a lot of glycophosphate in it?
No the hay (grain) is round up ready. It's been saturated in systemic herbicide and I'm not assuming anything. There has been a lot written about it on DG and elsewhere. It's also used in compost, organic or not. You can check for it buy trying to grow a legume seed in it, beans are very sensitive to it.
If I'm not sure of something I will preface that in my post. There has been so much written about contaminated compost...
I think there is a difference between hay and straw.
I don't know where hay comes from, but straw is usually from wheat and possibly oats.
As far as I know NO grain has been GE'd yet. It's next on the list but has yet to be approved by the USDA.
Alfalpha is now GE'd. This is fed to animals, as is GE'd corn.
Other crops that have been genetically engineered are: Soybeans, Canola, and Sugar Beets. (There are others, but these are the main ones.)
If an ingredient list says "cane sugar" or "evaporated cane juice" then it is from sugar cane and probably not GE'd. If the ingredient lists says "sugar" then it is from sugar beets and is probably GE'd.
Things are changing daily - I'm trying to keep up (LOL)
There has been a bunch of info on here and elsewhere about contaminated manure, compost, and hay being contaminated with systemic herbicide contaminating garden soil and the people have to wait yrs for their soil to be usable again.
Hay is a general term...Alfalfa is feed as hay in some areas.
We don't have straw here we have hay. I used to use it as mulch but not anymore unless I'm sure of the source. It may not be GMO but a broadleaf systemic herbicide could have been used on it, which can contaminate your soil for years.
Edited to add: straw is just the stalks, there is oat, wheat, coastal, etc...types of hay, when only the stalks are left it is now straw.
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Yikes! Googled systemic herbicide in wheat and came up with this!
I learn something new every day...
No matter whether you 'can get GMO seeds due to permissions/paperwork, etc.' I know that GMO can infect other crops around them, that's been proven time and time again. I know there are proponents of GMO at this forum site, so not arguing with them, they are entitled to garden however they want, and I celebrate that, but I don't plant things that aren't organic, from open pollinated, or are on the watch list (like beets, corn, soy, peanuts, etc.) without knowing they're from a reputable provider or organic. Better safe than sorry. I want to keep my kidneys and other organs. Those who believe in GMO, go for it, but not me. There's been too much research and now I even shop differently at grocery stores.
Watch this video: http://vimeo.com/22997532
Search for "dangers of GMO" if you are concerned, or "GMO infection of other crops" and you'll probably find some information.
I'm not here to argue with those who support the GMO industry. Everyone needs to make up their own mind, after doing the research. There's a lot of information out there, now, and some are .org, .net, and .com sites - because it isn't just universities, government committees, or organizations that have seen what GMO crops are doing, many people have experienced or researched this on their own, many with an unbiased attitude toward it, until they realized the truth. We can't stop it, but we can avoid it, at least so far, if we have concerns about our health and those around us.
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I think one of the issues is that (like anything else) there is a lot of misinformation, or propaganda put out there and bc of the Internet it spreads easily. I have read so much information that was taken out of context. I'm in no way for GMOs of any type. But I don't like the misinformation because it lessens the credibility of the info that is spot on.
Always ask your straw or hay supplier, let them know it is for gardening. At least my straw supplier is very careful about it. He sold stuff one year, ruined a bunch of gardens. Another fellow was growing in raised beds in a hoop house and his soil is not in very good shape after using gmo's straw then folding it into the garden at the end of the season.
The extension service has him growing some green manure crops to try to clean it up. But his hoop house is 60 x 100 and he is not looking forward to having to replace all that soil. He is hopeful but this is only his second year of green manure crops, and I believe they told him 3-4 yrs.
There is a lot of confusion that is constantly perpetrated on the net. Only alfalfa hay would have GMO's. Even so it is roundup ready. Round- Up (glyphosate) is now available as generic as the patent has expired. It is not residual which makes it popular for crops. On the other hand Chemical companies all over the world are competing for the herbicide market and many are systemic and residual as Honeybee pointed out. These are usually broadleaf herbicides and are used on grasses.
Has nothing to do with GMO's but can caused significant damage when misuded. The round-up ready GMo gene is used in broadleaf plants like soybeans,alfalfa, cotton, sugar beets etc. Gmo corn has the gene which generates Bt which serves as an insecticide. Here are some the fear tactics on cucumbers ( the one in question in this blurb is Poona Keera) http://www.disclose.tv/forum/gmo-cucumbers-t56571.html. This one is repeated in various form all over the net http://www.thelapine.ca/monsanto-cucumbers-cause-genital-baldness-immediately-banned-nova-scotia. Seminis does not offer a Vo5 or other pickling cucumber. Monsano does research before going on the open market, so it is possible that it is a research product that is not available to everday farmers. I do get suspicous tho as most genetic research takes place at land grants universities.
Our farmers grow wheat, and much of it has been gmo'd here. So Finding some that has not, is paramount. Likewise, I get my manures from a feedlot who grows their own feed, and does not use genetically altered seed supply, at least so far. Alfalfa has recently been added to teh approved for GMO'ing list. But don;t think there is very much interest at the moment, 7 billion dollar lawsuit just filed by a huge number of farmers, against Monsanto over charging them for using their own seed. That will be something to watch
I've heard that the justices seem to be leaning toward Monsanto in their questions. I hope that's not how it ends up, though.
Unfortunately, farmers aren't lawyers. I dare say none of the Justices have ever sown a seed in their lives. They can walk into any supermarket and buy food, take it home, eat it and not drop dead. Seems safe enough. Only time will tell IF GE'd vegetables are safe, but by then it may be too late.
Seems like more and more money talks not good sense, also seems like the judges are getting far more kickbacks and pay for what they don't do... grrrr