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Water Gardens: Tadpole experts

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Mrs_Ed

Mrs_Ed
Whiteside County, IL
(Zone 5a)

June 3, 2013
4:15 PM

Post #9545063

Hello All!

I have another dilemma I hope someone can help with.

I am happy to report that for the first time, I have a whole bunch of American Toad tadpoles. Unfortunately, the eggs hatched before I could get them moved. I was planning on a late spring cleanout to get ready for converting to a pondless waterfall. Now they are everywhere and the string algae has taken over the pond. I have been doing nothing for algae control (peat and peroxide) because I'm worried it will affect the little ones. I have no fish to control them either since I had a late winter kill. I can't manually remove the algae because the tads are mixed in.

So… am I stuck with this algae mess until the toadlets leave?

Thumbnail by Mrs_Ed
Click the image for an enlarged view.

tropicbreeze
noonamah
Australia

June 3, 2013
10:45 PM

Post #9545498

Their diet consists of algae so, with a lot of them, as they grow larger and hungrier they should clean all the algae up for you. And if they do clean all the algae up you might have to start feeding them until they metamorph.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 4, 2013
4:14 AM

Post #9545618

They'll have your water crystal clear in no time. Fish won't eat toad tadpoles, only frog tadpoles...the toads have a bitter taste. You'll also have a bug free yard! :)

Mrs_Ed

Mrs_Ed
Whiteside County, IL
(Zone 5a)

June 4, 2013
5:06 AM

Post #9545674

i'm happy to have them, don't get me wrong. I read though that they don't like string algae much. But here's hoping.

Then the next hurdle will be keeping the dogs from harming the toadlets when they leave the pond.
quaqbe
Stirling, NJ
(Zone 6a)

June 4, 2013
5:27 AM

Post #9545704

MM, not happy to hear the koi will eat tads, I bought 26, lot of dollars, to help control the algae, also added 13 snails, someone told me that crayfish are good for the pond as well. Any one with experience with crayfish (instaed of catfish)?
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 8, 2013
3:30 PM

Post #9551340

Haven't dealt with crayfish - seems to me if the frog tads are big enough, that the fish won't be able to eat them. I buy tads every year for koi fry control and I do have some that develop into frogs.

FrillyLily
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

June 9, 2013
10:00 AM

Post #9552126

for those of you with goldfish or starting out with small koi, large frogs (dont' know about toads?) will eat just about anything that will fit in their mouth. I lost some really nice patterned goldfish one year, before deciding it was a large bull frog that took up residency. I had to go out after dark w a strong flashlight, shine it on him and wham a net over the top and then scoop him into a bucket. Don't even think you can catch one during the day or if he is in the water. I would venture it impossible to do.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 9, 2013
10:58 AM

Post #9552223

You are VERY right! I love frogs and toads, but if I see a bull frog anywhere around, I move him a mile away! I've seen them suck down 6-8 inch koi! I go out at night with a net and a flashlight, and wrestle around until I get him, lol, it's quite a sight! My yard is fenced in, so I don't get the big bullfrogs often, but when I do, I go after them...you can hear their low buh-rum noise that is totally different than my smaller frogs and toads.
quaqbe
Stirling, NJ
(Zone 6a)

June 9, 2013
12:11 PM

Post #9552333

This is the bullfrog I had...if you look close you will see the feathers sticking out of his mouth. he was so full and sluggish I could have caught him by hand easily...but only then

Thumbnail by quaqbe   Thumbnail by quaqbe         
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Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 9, 2013
12:42 PM

Post #9552382

Very true Frilly. I use them for birth control with my koi. Catching the fry became very labor intensive and I was running out of places that would take my fry.

quaqbe
Stirling, NJ
(Zone 6a)

June 9, 2013
2:23 PM

Post #9552506

can anyone tell me...I've had my pond since the fall of 2002 and have never had any babies, how does it happen, no I know the mechanics of how, but how do you encourage the fish to indulge in the behavior that will create babies?
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

June 9, 2013
5:00 PM

Post #9552672

Q

how many fish do you have and how old are they?

I know that Merry Mary knows how to encourage spawning. I am wondering if your fish are the same sex.

MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 10, 2013
8:56 AM

Post #9553482

If you've had your koi since 2002, they are old enough to be breeding. Usually, they say 3-5 years old, although I've known some to egg up earlier than that, and some males have matured before that. I also have some 18 inch fish that I've never seen get involved in any of the spawning activities. I believe they are around 6 years old. Males do have a much more streamline torpedo shape, but I've been fooled in the past, but a skinny built female. Most females, as they mature, do get a bit rounder between their ribs and vent area, where they begin holding their eggs. Males can also get little dots on their gill plates...and a boney ridge at the front of their pec fins.
quaqbe
Stirling, NJ
(Zone 6a)

June 10, 2013
3:48 PM

Post #9554023

My youngest is 4. The oldest is 11, up until March I had six koi...gave one to my pond cleaner guy and one died in the pea soup two weeks ago so now there are 4 very big kids but I see no evidence of connubial activity going on...
MM, I am so glad u talked me into the UV light...it is working so well I am ecstatic
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

June 10, 2013
5:55 PM

Post #9554156

Yay! Ever since someone sold me on the UV light idea, years ago, I will try to convince anyone that it really IS worth it! The change is dramatic, and people enjoy their ponds sooooo much more. :)

Mrs_Ed

Mrs_Ed
Whiteside County, IL
(Zone 5a)

June 10, 2013
6:38 PM

Post #9554230

I would believe it… In Water Reclamation, they use UV light to do final disinfection rather than chemicals.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

July 6, 2013
7:16 PM

Post #9589541

Wish I could afford a UV clarifier for my pool. They do make them but the cost is astranomical.
Now that ponds are all cleaned I can concentrate on cleaning up pool. We really need it this time of year in Fl.
I am anxious to hear how M. Mary cleans her pool after having koi in it for so l ong. Short of pumping it out completely and vacuuming the bottom can't see how you could do it. Sure wish y ou luck with that project.
Bonnie
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

July 8, 2013
4:30 AM

Post #9591083

Bonnie, I dropped the water in the pool to only about 2 1/2 feet deep, and have normal pond filters and UV lights on. Once I move them out, I'll be able to drain it, refill slowly (water cost!) and use a lot more chlorine for a while to bleach everything out. I may use PP first, just to completely kill anything in there first.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

July 16, 2013
5:18 AM

Post #9600742

Merry Mary,
Hows your new pond coming along? Would like to see it when your finished and if you have to move fish got an excellent mover in the family. (Jeff) He loves doing it. To him thats a fun time.
If we can be of any help let m e know.
Bonnie
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

July 16, 2013
6:00 AM

Post #9600824

Bonnie...it's going veeeery slowly with me hand digging this monster. I usually only get 2 hours here and there. I'm going to try to take pictures, I only have my cell phone camera, so don't know if I can get the whole angle. The yard is a mess!
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

July 16, 2013
6:46 PM

Post #9601666

Looked in a tubby today that I have some plants in and its loaded with tadpoles if you want some.
Also 2 toads floated up the side of larger pond and were mateing so guess I will have a huge crop of little ones. It's ok as long as they are toads and not CTF. I know they are out there casue at night I hear their racheting call. Buggers.
Hope you can get some pics of your progress. I'm sorry it's so hot while you are working. I think that might be why we hurried last July cause we all wanted to get it over with due to the excessive heat.
I know you will get er done. Persistence pays off.
Bonnie
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

July 18, 2013
8:36 AM

Post #9603551

Checked another tub this morning and its also loaded with tadpoles. Would gladly give them to anyone that wanted them if they could stop by.
Time to mow the front lawn before it rains again.
Bonnie
quaqbe
Stirling, NJ
(Zone 6a)

July 18, 2013
1:37 PM

Post #9603893

ladies, forgive my density...still new at talking to real pond people...pls tell me what PP is and CTFs. I bought bullfrog tads but I think the Koi ate them all...26 in all, did finally see a little green leopard(?) frog two days ago. frogs seem to come and go don't know how to attract them, I think they are "cute". the hat here has brought out the dragon flies, a dozen or so...green, blue, brown and more. one more ?? how old is to hot for the water for the koi? we r have a major problem with the weather.
Carolyn22
Athens, PA
(Zone 5b)

July 18, 2013
3:26 PM

Post #9604007

PP is potassium permanganate which is used in ponds to kill all the nasties - parasites, fungus spores and the like that are going to do your koi harm. CTF is for Cuban Tree Frogs - not something that you and I have to deal with (thankfully!).

I wouldn't be surprised if the koi ate the tads, if the tads are very small and the koi are larger - however, it is generally the other way around. Again, that would be based upon size.

I have the dragonflies too - I love them. All different colors and sizes, although I have not seen the huge green one this year.

What is your water temperature running? Generally the warmer the water, the less oxygen that the water will hold and the cooler the water, then the water holds more oxygen. I have a bubbler that I turn on when the water temps hit about 80 degrees. I also stop feeding my koi when the water temps reach into the 80's and let the koi eat just the algae. Koi can go without being fed for a week or two without any issues.

When the water temps start to drop in the fall below 60 degrees, then it is time to feed a fall/spring food, which is not as high in protein as the summer food. Conversely, in the spring, when the water temps are consistently over 50-55 degrees, feed the koi the the spring/fall food. In the summer when the water temps are warmer, koi metabolism is higher and they really need the higher protein foods.

I don't know why, but the frogs tend to come and go. DH and I have bought bullfrog tads every year for the last 3 or 4 years and you would think the pond would be overloaded with frogs, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

^_^
quaqbe
Stirling, NJ
(Zone 6a)

July 19, 2013
8:54 AM

Post #9604865

I have never put anything in my pond other than micro lift I know some folks put in salt and other things 'cause I really don't like chemical stuff. Now about the oxygen, I have three water falls and two bubblers and the water is about 84 degrees, with the air being over 90 for the last many, many days I have put up a second umbrella and it seems to be helping. The sun and heat are so bad we had to put up sun shades for our tomatoes so they don't get sun burned. Three of my Koi are over two feet long and my little guy is 18+ inches so I guess they are big enough to eat the tads. I really got the pond put in for the "fun" of it I never expected it to be so involved. oh well, I wouldn't fill it in, so on we go.
MerryMary
Ocoee (W. Orlando), FL
(Zone 9b)

July 19, 2013
10:36 AM

Post #9604987

We all start out small and then get overly involved. :) That's why there's a whole forum for ponders! I wouldn't have it any other way, as annoyed as I get from time to time with small problems, it brings me great joy.
You're dealing with the pond/air temps we usually have all summer long down here. Just keep up on the oxygen level. Every now and then, I just drop a small pump in, and let it bubble away. No filter, no hoses, no anything...just the pump to add one more blast of bubbled water flow.
I ordered large sun shade cloth for my new pond that I'm currently building. I know it will help greatly.
BonnieGardens
Clermont, FL
(Zone 9a)

July 19, 2013
5:28 PM

Post #9605496

Now you know why I built both ponds under the same oak tree. Messy yes but I don't want fried koi. I've had pond water reach 90 and koi go down to bottom where its cooler. Son told me how to make a spray pattern of water on end of pipe I have going to fountain and I'm thinking about doing that as the fish always gravitate to any sprayed water. They love moving water it seems. Sometimes they hide under the waterfalls in both ponds. They really are quite smart.
I don't feed my fish different foods with the seasons but I do stop feeding when water gets below 50. They don't want food anyhow. Those litrtle dickens are smart. Their digestive system shuts down. Wish mine would to for the summer cause I'm more active during the winter.
Weather has been brutal all over. I am so thankful for AC. I remember the 18 yrs. we first moved here and didn't have it. Never again cause now I'm home and not working in an AC office.
Hope all of you are staying cool and hydrated.
Bonnie

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